Cookie said:

Driver said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Meanwhile, supermarket food inflation 21.6% year on year at the cheap end (budget food ranges).

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/poorest-hit-hardest-by-inflation-as-budget-groceries-soar-in-price-awGN66n1RaHz

Quality is dropping too.

Oh? Not saying you are wrong, quite the reverse, but how?

The one I notice most - silly though it may sound - is apple sauce.

The own brand stuff for Morrisons, in particular, used to be pretty good and not very expensive. Now it has a much lower fruit content, so it's much less pleasant, and a much higher price.

But I could instance cornflakes, butter, toiletries, cheese - all sorts of staples that used to be better but seem to be sold in smaller packets and less tasty when you get them.

I used to buy at the big supermarkets (again, particularly Morrisons) rather than Aldi and Lidl because although it was a little more expensive the products were of a better quality so I didn't mind the extra charge.

Now - Aldi's actually producing better quality stuff and it's a lot cheaper.

Morrisons has gone downhill in a big way over the last couple of years, not just on the value range.

Tesco sausages have gone weird.
Also, supermarket shopping at Tesco is a qualitatively less pleasant experience. Only one checkout is open and they play music too loudly where once there was silence.
They have, though, been not unsuccessful in keeping prices down.

Scott_xP said:

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Doubt this is a useful thing to say, but this is potentially profoundly useful to Remainers. Principles are being established about being in the EU's single market/customs union with veto powers, which could be quite easily expanded to include the whole of the UK.

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Not getting overly excited. That's clearly not the aim on either side. But if you were a future British government and wanted to establish that sort of relationship, you can see quite clearly how it would work and the arguments you'd use.

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

It's changed completely on both sides.

Last set of negotiations were done while the EU had the UK as a member and subject to EU law, this time it does not.

This is a triumph for the UK that follows on from the triumph of 2019 in saying sort the UK out of the EU first, kick NI into the future to come back to.

This is a complete defeat of the Barnier framework of resolving NI first to bind the UK into the EU's sphere of influence.

Negotiations were going nowhere until Sunak became PM and a new UK team started talking to the existing EU team.

NickPalmer said:

SouthamObserver said:

Negotiations were going nowhere until Sunak became PM and a new UK team started talking to the existing EU team.

Yes, it's an illustration of what the nebulous thing "Trust in the other side to be negotiating in good faith" can achieve. It was totally missing before, both ways. I'm not inclined to quibble or score points - unless some hideous snag emerges, it's an excellent thing.

I also think it's an example of the sort of achievement that I'd trust Sunak to be good at - complex, technical, and requiring an interest in detail without populist sloganeering. I'm not going to suddenly vote Tory, but I think he deserves credit.

ydoethur said:

solarflare said:

What was the EU legal action about pets all about?

The EU had demanded full paperwork for pets in transit between the EU and the UK. Under Johnson's deal this applied to Northern Ireland but the British were refusing to enforce it. AIUI the legal action was to force them to actually do the fricking checks, and fine the UK for non-compliance.

Now, the checks have been scrapped for Northern Ireland. Unfortunately not for the rest of the EU, but it's definitely a big improvement.

Flatlander said:

Scott_xP said:

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Doubt this is a useful thing to say, but this is potentially profoundly useful to Remainers. Principles are being established about being in the EU's single market/customs union with veto powers, which could be quite easily expanded to include the whole of the UK.

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Not getting overly excited. That's clearly not the aim on either side. But if you were a future British government and wanted to establish that sort of relationship, you can see quite clearly how it would work and the arguments you'd use.

That's not remain/rejoin, though, is it? That's some form of cherrypicked EFTA membership which we were told was impossible.

It wouldn't help rejoin either, it would end the idea completely.

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

FF43 said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

1, 2 and a somewhat limited 3 were proposed by Maros Sefcovic back in 2021 following his discussions with Northern Ireland business and politicians. These proposals were subsequently rejected by Johnson, Truss and Frost. It's possible the new proposals are significantly different in the detail from Sefcovic's originals. On the whole of looks like Sunak's main work has been in getting his government on board.

Lol no they weren't. The EU's position was always "you made the deal, live with it". As always you want to cheer the EU as much as possible, honestly I do wonder whether you're a paid astroturfer or just deluded.

I have concluded @FF43 is simply beige and dull. Monumentally boring. See his inability to accept the ‘lab leak hypothesis’ even yesterday

My guess is “well educated” but sorely lacks in creative wit, self confidence or imagination; therefore gets stuck in intellectual positions even when they no longer make any sense, and cannot form an opinion by himself

Driver said:

Cookie said:

Driver said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Meanwhile, supermarket food inflation 21.6% year on year at the cheap end (budget food ranges).

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/poorest-hit-hardest-by-inflation-as-budget-groceries-soar-in-price-awGN66n1RaHz

Quality is dropping too.

Oh? Not saying you are wrong, quite the reverse, but how?

The one I notice most - silly though it may sound - is apple sauce.

The own brand stuff for Morrisons, in particular, used to be pretty good and not very expensive. Now it has a much lower fruit content, so it's much less pleasant, and a much higher price.

But I could instance cornflakes, butter, toiletries, cheese - all sorts of staples that used to be better but seem to be sold in smaller packets and less tasty when you get them.

I used to buy at the big supermarkets (again, particularly Morrisons) rather than Aldi and Lidl because although it was a little more expensive the products were of a better quality so I didn't mind the extra charge.

Now - Aldi's actually producing better quality stuff and it's a lot cheaper.

Morrisons has gone downhill in a big way over the last couple of years, not just on the value range.

Tesco sausages have gone weird.
Also, supermarket shopping at Tesco is a qualitatively less pleasant experience. Only one checkout is open and they play music too loudly where once there was silence.
They have, though, been not unsuccessful in keeping prices down.

Meh, I use the scan-as-you-shop at whichever supermarket (usually Asda midweek and either Sainsbury's or Tesco at the weekend). The main unpleasantness about shopping is all the people getting in the way, but there's no avoiding that.

Scott_xP said:

...

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

It's changed completely on both sides.

Last set of negotiations were done while the EU had the UK as a member and subject to EU law, this time it does not.

This is a triumph for the UK that follows on from the triumph of 2019 in saying sort the UK out of the EU first, kick NI into the future to come back to.

This is a complete defeat of the Barnier framework of resolving NI first to bind the UK into the EU's sphere of influence.

Negotiations were going nowhere until Sunak became PM and a new UK team started talking to the existing EU team.

Bollocks. Negotiations were ongoing and the destination of somewhere like this had been set by the NI Protocol Bill.

The EU have negotiated what Boris and Truss proposed, to save face from having it done by Britain unilaterally. Just as I said to expect when the Protocol Bill was announced. Mission accomplished.

WillG said:

Casino_Royale said:

WillG said:

Verulamius said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-windsor-framework

Thank you for the link. Things that jump out:

1) 1700 pages of EU law disapplied, with most trade rules coming from the UK legal side (including food safety), so ECJ presence seems pretty limited

2) UK VAT and excise rates and calculations apply, not Irish or EU ones

3) Free GB-NI trade for medicines, medical products, agriculture, construction goods, steel. UK regulation, not EU, on food, jewellery, clothes and medicines applies

4) Data sharing based on existing data collection, so no additional bureaucratic burden for small businesses

5) Stormont break only applies to NEW EU laws - but can be used just by a minority at Stormont AND challenges to it will not be decided by ECJ, but an independent body.

6) Stormont break requires the block by Stormont AND a UK government veto

7) New legal commitment on both UK and EU to protect UK internal market

8) GB-NI trade will be based on UK commercial regulation, not international customs.

Overall I would say this is more like 3-0 for the UK position than 3-1. But both sides win from the deal.

It's just as advertised and, arguably, even better - a fundamental and radical rewrite of the whole NI protocol.

Also, I note that it effectively introduces a new digital border between NI and Eire to monitor north-south movement to compensate, which is a massive concession and something I'd jump on if I were the DUP.

It also sets the precedent of digital borders between the UK and EU, which could be used to reduce trade barriers elsewhere in future. AND the UK can still sign trade deals elsewhere and filter immigration.

ping said:

Driver said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Meanwhile, supermarket food inflation 21.6% year on year at the cheap end (budget food ranges).

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/poorest-hit-hardest-by-inflation-as-budget-groceries-soar-in-price-awGN66n1RaHz

Quality is dropping too.

Oh? Not saying you are wrong, quite the reverse, but how?

The one I notice most - silly though it may sound - is apple sauce.

The own brand stuff for Morrisons, in particular, used to be pretty good and not very expensive. Now it has a much lower fruit content, so it's much less pleasant, and a much higher price.

But I could instance cornflakes, butter, toiletries, cheese - all sorts of staples that used to be better but seem to be sold in smaller packets and less tasty when you get them.

I used to buy at the big supermarkets (again, particularly Morrisons) rather than Aldi and Lidl because although it was a little more expensive the products were of a better quality so I didn't mind the extra charge.

Now - Aldi's actually producing better quality stuff and it's a lot cheaper.

Morrisons has gone downhill in a big way over the last couple of years, not just on the value range.

I popped in to greggs, earlier and was astonished to see how much their baguettes have shrunk. Barely half the size they were the last time I was there, a couple of months ago.

Same price.

Scott_xP said:

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 51% (=)
CON: 24% (=)
LDM: 9% (-1)
REF: 7% (+1)
GRN: 5% (=)
SNP: 3% (=)

Via @RedfieldWilton, On 26 February,
Changes w/ 18 February.

SouthamObserver said:

Driver said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

It's changed completely on both sides.

Last set of negotiations were done while the EU had the UK as a member and subject to EU law, this time it does not.

This is a triumph for the UK that follows on from the triumph of 2019 in saying sort the UK out of the EU first, kick NI into the future to come back to.

This is a complete defeat of the Barnier framework of resolving NI first to bind the UK into the EU's sphere of influence.

Negotiations were going nowhere until Sunak became PM and a new UK team started talking to the existing EU team.

The NI Protocol Bill started in Parliament on the 13th of June last year. Eight and a half months to get from there to this is pretty good.

Sunak became PM just four months ago. That's how long it has taken. Shows what can be done when there's a serious desire to do it.

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:

kinabalu said:

SouthamObserver said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Report from the EU that Boris Johnson and Frost grated in the EU who welcome the new PM pragmatic attitude

No surprise there

The Johnson/Frost spin will no doubt be a deal was only possible because they scared the EU rigid with their hardball Protocol Cancellation bill. Nothing at all to do with us dropping the macho theatrics and behaving like mature adults.

But that will not wash. The current, grown-up UK government has made the legal advice clear: the bill was never going to work from a legal standpoint and would have exposed the UK to large compensation payments if enacted. And if the UK government knew that, the EU did too.

Course it won't. But they deal in fantasies. What this actually shows imo is the wasted opportunity to negotiate a better deal in the first place. All it needed was good faith, hard work, focus and professionalism. Instead we got all that 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal' and 'holding all the cards' perpetual grandstanding nonsense. Then a mad rush to sign something - anything - so Johnson could win his election.

You can't go into a negotiation with the position that a bad deal is better than no deal, even if that's what you privately believe.
And if the alternative is a Corbyn government, a deal held together with string and wishful thinking is better than whatever deal Corbyn would have cooked up. Imagine Corbyn trying to find a deal with the EU which could keep NI within the UK. It would be like all of his Christmasses had come at once (well, two of his Christmasses.)

Ok, I suppose a Marxist dystopia under Corbyn is about the only yardstick by which Johnson's tenure could be judged non-disastrous. Point of order though. If Labour had won GE19 there wouldn't have been a Brexit Deal. There'd have been no Brexit.

The famously enthusiastic Remainer Jeremy Corbyn would have called it off?

And a Marxist dystopia under Jeremy Corbyn is, unfortunately, the yardstick by which we must judge it. Because that was the alternative.

If I were making Johnson's case for posterity, it would be that I don't really see a credible scenario which didn't lead to a Marxist dystopia which didn't involve him and his rather half-baked deal. We can both prefer that a better deal had been in place from the start (or, for you, no deal at all), but the pathway which led to such a thing AND no Marxist dystopia was, in my view, so narrow in its likelihood as to be implausible.
My view is that Johnson was the only broadly plausible way of getting from the failure of May's 2017 election to today which didn't go via Marxist dystopia.

I doubt Jeremy could have pulled off a Marxist dystopia with Labour largest party in a hung parliament. Which was the stretch target. But, yes, Ref2 with Remain as a binary choice against any specific Exit deal was a slam dunk. Brexit was a goner if GE19 had gone that way. This would have been pretty much the sole mandate of a short Corbyn 1st term - cancelling Brexit. Marxist dystopia to follow in his 2nd term after a landslide in 2021 perhaps. Then no more elections obviously.

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Casino_Royale said:

WillG said:

Casino_Royale said:

WillG said:

Verulamius said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-windsor-framework

Thank you for the link. Things that jump out:

1) 1700 pages of EU law disapplied, with most trade rules coming from the UK legal side (including food safety), so ECJ presence seems pretty limited

2) UK VAT and excise rates and calculations apply, not Irish or EU ones

3) Free GB-NI trade for medicines, medical products, agriculture, construction goods, steel. UK regulation, not EU, on food, jewellery, clothes and medicines applies

4) Data sharing based on existing data collection, so no additional bureaucratic burden for small businesses

5) Stormont break only applies to NEW EU laws - but can be used just by a minority at Stormont AND challenges to it will not be decided by ECJ, but an independent body.

6) Stormont break requires the block by Stormont AND a UK government veto

7) New legal commitment on both UK and EU to protect UK internal market

8) GB-NI trade will be based on UK commercial regulation, not international customs.

Overall I would say this is more like 3-0 for the UK position than 3-1. But both sides win from the deal.

It's just as advertised and, arguably, even better - a fundamental and radical rewrite of the whole NI protocol.

Also, I note that it effectively introduces a new digital border between NI and Eire to monitor north-south movement to compensate, which is a massive concession and something I'd jump on if I were the DUP.

It also sets the precedent of digital borders between the UK and EU, which could be used to reduce trade barriers elsewhere in future. AND the UK can still sign trade deals elsewhere and filter immigration.

Rishi has played a blinder.

Short of agreeing a bit of choreography where the whole EU Commission came into Whitehall and went down on both knees in front of the British government, crying and begging for mercy, whilst the national anthem was played on loudspeaker and a list of famous British military victories read aloud to them accompanied by the Life Guards shouting "Huzzah!" I don't see how how he could have done any better.

MaxPB said:

WillG said:

Casino_Royale said:

WillG said:

Verulamius said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-windsor-framework

Thank you for the link. Things that jump out:

1) 1700 pages of EU law disapplied, with most trade rules coming from the UK legal side (including food safety), so ECJ presence seems pretty limited

2) UK VAT and excise rates and calculations apply, not Irish or EU ones

3) Free GB-NI trade for medicines, medical products, agriculture, construction goods, steel. UK regulation, not EU, on food, jewellery, clothes and medicines applies

4) Data sharing based on existing data collection, so no additional bureaucratic burden for small businesses

5) Stormont break only applies to NEW EU laws - but can be used just by a minority at Stormont AND challenges to it will not be decided by ECJ, but an independent body.

6) Stormont break requires the block by Stormont AND a UK government veto

7) New legal commitment on both UK and EU to protect UK internal market

8) GB-NI trade will be based on UK commercial regulation, not international customs.

Overall I would say this is more like 3-0 for the UK position than 3-1. But both sides win from the deal.

It's just as advertised and, arguably, even better - a fundamental and radical rewrite of the whole NI protocol.

Also, I note that it effectively introduces a new digital border between NI and Eire to monitor north-south movement to compensate, which is a massive concession and something I'd jump on if I were the DUP.

It also sets the precedent of digital borders between the UK and EU, which could be used to reduce trade barriers elsewhere in future. AND the UK can still sign trade deals elsewhere and filter immigration.

Yes, the digital border or customs pre-clearance as it is probably more rightfully named, can be a future blueprint for UK-EU trade. If it proves successful for this scenario we can and should roll it out for the TCA and do away with border checks for as many goods as possible on both sides.

malcolmg said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Meanwhile, supermarket food inflation 21.6% year on year at the cheap end (budget food ranges).

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/poorest-hit-hardest-by-inflation-as-budget-groceries-soar-in-price-awGN66n1RaHz

Quality is dropping too.

Oh? Not saying you are wrong, quite the reverse, but how?

Have noticed quality of vegetables has dropped a fair bit.,, probably travelling for much longer.

biggles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Steve Baker has just said on Sky it meets DUP 7 tests

He is delighted with the agreement

It’s astonishing. No sane person could want more. We and the EU can now move on and be best mates, using things like Ukraine as examples.

So the DUP and Mogg will clearly hate it.

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

FF43 said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

1, 2 and a somewhat limited 3 were proposed by Maros Sefcovic back in 2021 following his discussions with Northern Ireland business and politicians. These proposals were subsequently rejected by Johnson, Truss and Frost. It's possible the new proposals are significantly different in the detail from Sefcovic's originals. On the whole of looks like Sunak's main work has been in getting his government on board.

Lol no they weren't. The EU's position was always "you made the deal, live with it". As always you want to cheer the EU as much as possible, honestly I do wonder whether you're a paid astroturfer or just deluded.

I have concluded @FF43 is simply beige and dull. Monumentally boring. See his inability to accept the ‘lab leak hypothesis’ even yesterday

My guess is “well educated” but sorely lacks in creative wit, self confidence or imagination; therefore gets stuck in intellectual positions even when they no longer make any sense, and cannot form an opinion by himself

malcolmg said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Did Astra Zeneca not get retired as useless.

Flatlander said:

malcolmg said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Did Astra Zeneca not get retired as useless.

If your definition of 'useless' is saving about 6 million lives in the first year, yes.

Scott_xP said:

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Doubt this is a useful thing to say, but this is potentially profoundly useful to Remainers. Principles are being established about being in the EU's single market/customs union with veto powers, which could be quite easily expanded to include the whole of the UK.

Ian Dunt @IanDunt

Not getting overly excited. That's clearly not the aim on either side. But if you were a future British government and wanted to establish that sort of relationship, you can see quite clearly how it would work and the arguments you'd use.

kle4 said:

malcolmg said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Did Astra Zeneca not get retired as useless.

No.

CarlottaVance said:

The King this afternoon held an Audience with the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, at Windsor Castle.



https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1630253909137666050?s=20

dixiedean said:

TUV opposed to it.
Surprise, surprise.

GIN1138 said:

HYUFD said:

Arlene Foster sceptical about this Deal but wants to check the detail.

She of course is on the moderate wing of the DUP

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/not-ready-buy-rishis-ni-protocol-bluff-devil-small-print/

There's a "Moderate" wing of the DUP?

TheScreamingEagles said:

If Sinn Fein support this deal then Sunak has sold out Northern Ireland.

Best PM ever.

tlg86 said:

Why is Starmer saying he'll "put country first and party second" and vote for the deal? Does the Labour Party not support this deal?

HYUFD said:

Arlene Foster sceptical about this Deal but wants to check the detail.

She of course is on the moderate wing of the DUP

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/not-ready-buy-rishis-ni-protocol-bluff-devil-small-print/

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

malcolmg said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Did Astra Zeneca not get retired as useless.

No.

Assume the Tories made more cash from pfizer then , hence binning it.

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

Arlene Foster sceptical about this Deal but wants to check the detail.

She of course is on the moderate wing of the DUP

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/not-ready-buy-rishis-ni-protocol-bluff-devil-small-print/

Bloody hell. If Arlene Foster is one the moderate wing I'd hate to come across the extreme wing.

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

HYUFD said:

Arlene Foster sceptical about this Deal but wants to check the detail.

She of course is on the moderate wing of the DUP

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/not-ready-buy-rishis-ni-protocol-bluff-devil-small-print/

There's a "Moderate" wing of the DUP?

They only hate Catholics.

Oh? What do tdhe non-moderate wing hate as well? Dinosaurs?

HYUFD said:

Arlene Foster sceptical about this Deal but wants to check the detail.

She of course is on the moderate wing of the DUP

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/not-ready-buy-rishis-ni-protocol-bluff-devil-small-print/

glw said:

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

malcolmg said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

SouthamObserver said:

WillG said:

CarlottaVance said:

Potentially crucial detail from Sunak there.

The new "Stormont break" will actually allow the NI Assembly to prevent the application of new EU laws. [in NI]

That goes further than many were expecting, and may meet one of the DUP's toughest tests.

Wow. It seems to go even further. VdL said that the new "Stormont break" is based around the "petition of concern"

To non-Stormont nerds, that's a mechanism that allows just 30 MLAs to block legislation.

So it’s an effective unionist (or nationalist) veto over new EU laws. Huge.

Of course, the caveat is that for such a veto to be exercised, Stormont would need to be sitting.

Which you might say is a decent incentive to get the thing back up and running...

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1630240436106444802?s=20

Three big wins coming out so far. Things the EU previously said were impossible.

1) A green lane with no checks for anything going to Northern Ireland

2) Availability of all GB foods, agriculture and medicine to Northern Ireland

3) A break from Stormont on EU laws (this could get downgraded to half a win depending on whether it only applies to new laws)

Then one potential win for the EU, unclear its size until more comes out:

1) Some EU law applying in NI, with ECJ decision maker.

We need to find out more, but right now seems like a 3-1 win for the UK.

That depends on what you believe the EU is trying to do. If it can monitor use of the Green lanes to ensure that there is no subsequent movement into the Single Market and that goods stay in Northern Ireland - and it can through access to UK data records which the deal has made available - then it is protecting the integrity of the single market and so also winning.

All it took was grown-ups on both sides of the negotiating table.

Something we were told was an impossible unicorn during the Brexit debate.

We now have the unicorn solution. All it took was grown ups at the negotiating table ... and the UK to be clear in no unambiguous terms that we wouldn't be following EU rules and a compromise was necessary.

We have a solution that both sides are very happy with. One that has its roots in both sides accepting that they are not enemies and that they have common goals. The UK single market is preserved, the EU single market is preserved. It's a deal that has been done by grown-ups - and the make-up of the negotiating teams has only changed on one side of the table.

No this is utter bollocks

It was the EU - ursula herself - which unilaterally suspended the Brexit agreement to prevent fucking vaccines crossing the Uk border because the EU felt humiliated. By its vaccine failures of the time. It was macron who said astra zeneca was basically useless. It was the Germans who claimed astra zeneca was 10% effective for anyone older than 2 months etc etc

How many people actually DIED as a result of this childish petulance? Because the EU felt insulted or menaced by Brexit?

The EU is at fault as is the UK. Both sides acted like wankers. Enough already

That 'fucking vaccines' jars a bit. Swearing's fine but don't strain to swear.

Did Astra Zeneca not get retired as useless.

No.

Assume the Tories made more cash from pfizer then , hence binning it.

I don't think we binned any vaccines. We ordered loads, and different vaccines have been more or less available at different times, we might have cut orders as we ended up with several effective and approved vaccines. I personally have had AZ, Pfizer, and Moderna.
Globally AZ, Pfizer, and the two main Chinese vaccines have each delivered about 2.5 billion doses. It was a phenomenal achievement.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Today is another step to rejoining.

Horizon today, single market soon.