The time’s come for LAB leader punters to move on from Burnham? – politicalbetting.com

First like Starmer

Yes, I would now make Wes Streeting favourite to succeed Starmer not Burnham. The next Labour leader may then automatically become PM given on current polling the leadership change would take place when Labour are in government.

Burnham's time was in 2015 but that has passed. He was second to Corbyn then but had Labour picked Burnham instead of Corbyn Labour might even have got most seats in the next general election ahead of May's Tories and formed a Labour led government, not merely a hung parliament as Corbyn did but with the Tories still in power

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

Burnham is utterly useless.

People call Starmer unprincipled, there is not a single position Andy has not held.

For privatisation
Against privatisation
For privatisation
Against privatisation

For Iraq
Against Iraq
For Iraq
Against Iraq

Against Corbyn
For Corbyn
Against Corbyn
For Corbyn

For Starmer
Against Starmer
Really against Starmer
For Starmer

The man is utterly pointless.

{Bill Clinton entered the chat, smiles approvingly, lights cigar}

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

To win Labour need a few million generally Tory voters to mostly switch to Labour, and some switch to a no hoper and some stay at home.

Burnham as leader would switch this generally Tory voter from Labour to LD. (Nothing would get me to vote Tory until they have sorted themselves out morally and ideologically, which clearly isn't soon).

Well I’m never drinking Irn-Bru.

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well I’m never drinking Irn-Bru.

You're missing out. It is the very nectar of the gods. Also great for hangovers and for staying awake on a long drive to or from Scotland.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well I’m never drinking Irn-Bru.

You're missing out. It is the very nectar of the gods. Also great for hangovers and for staying awake on a long drive to or from Scotland.

When I was up there a couple of weeks ago I noticed in Nando's that they make a positive virtue of Irn-Bru only being available in Scotland...

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

Up to a point, but the grumpy entitlement shown by NZ does feel like a new distasteful development.

Ministers serve at the PM's arbitrary pleasure. Rishi doesn't have to give a reason at all.

(I wonder if the problem is the one that you risk in meritocracy, namely that the winners think that all their success is down to their brilliance, forgetting all the random bits of good fortune that also came their way.)

Yep, it's an extension of the mindset of the millionaire business people that now proliferate in politics. Miraculously all of them seem to have made it entirely through their own efforts and in spite of rather than because they live in a largely prosperous and peaceful developed state. Any setbacks are seen as an insult to their unique talents, and down to outside factors rather than mistakes they've made. Also another facet of Trumpism of course.

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1619983263233355777

After 3yrs of thinking I’d developed worsening hay fever, I’ve finally solved the mystery: air pollution. I live in one of UK’s worst polluted areas - Kensington/Chelsea - and when air quality’s v bad, like last week, I feel rough. When it’s OK, like now, I’m fine. Anyone else?

Piers has gone all woke

You mean the vast pile of scientific research on air pollution is actually.... right?

I'm shocked etc....

Though the other thing is about comparisons. The improvements starting in the 50s to city air form visibly filthy to subtly dirty. Realising that there is still a way to go can feel like woke snowflakedom, until you spend time in properly clean air.

Hence the current hoohah about the ULEZ in places like Romford. Some of it is genuine concern about costs (though often based on fearing the scheme will be more restrictive than it is), some is political mischief making. But there's also a genuine, incorrect impression that the air isn't that dirty round these parts. It's never actual smog, is it?

Dampen a finger. Run it along an external window ledge. What do you see?

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1619983263233355777

After 3yrs of thinking I’d developed worsening hay fever, I’ve finally solved the mystery: air pollution. I live in one of UK’s worst polluted areas - Kensington/Chelsea - and when air quality’s v bad, like last week, I feel rough. When it’s OK, like now, I’m fine. Anyone else?

Piers has gone all woke

Mrs J has periods with significant lung issues. With hindsight, they started at about the same time she started a ~1 hr each way commute to work. She can go long periods with no problems, but worsens after a few days when she had bad trips in due to congestion, especially in summer.

I'm convinced it's pollution that's causing the harm.

Which is why, even if you don't believe in global warming / climate change, you should be in favour of getting cleaner air. Which many of the 'fixes' for AGW also give...

JosiasJessop said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1619983263233355777

After 3yrs of thinking I’d developed worsening hay fever, I’ve finally solved the mystery: air pollution. I live in one of UK’s worst polluted areas - Kensington/Chelsea - and when air quality’s v bad, like last week, I feel rough. When it’s OK, like now, I’m fine. Anyone else?

Piers has gone all woke

Mrs J has periods with significant lung issues. With hindsight, they started at about the same time she started a ~1 hr each way commute to work. She can go long periods with no problems, but worsens after a few days when she had bad trips in due to congestion, especially in summer.

I'm convinced it's pollution that's causing the harm.

Which is why, even if you don't believe in global warming / climate change, you should be in favour of getting cleaner air. Which many of the 'fixes' for AGW also give...

They really need to do something about the air quality in parts of the London Underground. Despite be all electric for generations, the air is extremely bad.

Sean_F said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

Anyone really, in a leading position, as @Cyclefree has often pointed out.

Instead, there’s genuine indignation at being sacked for incompetence or corruption.

Isn't that true at all levels, and outside politics as well? The most junior employees sacked for incompetence are very likely to blame the employer not themselves.

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

Up to a point, but the grumpy entitlement shown by NZ does feel like a new distasteful development.

Ministers serve at the PM's arbitrary pleasure. Rishi doesn't have to give a reason at all.

(I wonder if the problem is the one that you risk in meritocracy, namely that the winners think that all their success is down to their brilliance, forgetting all the random bits of good fortune that also came their way.)

Yep, it's an extension of the mindset of the millionaire business people that now proliferate in politics. Miraculously all of them seem to have made it entirely through their own efforts and in spite of rather than because they live in a largely prosperous and peaceful developed state. Any setbacks are seen as an insult to their unique talents, and down to outside factors rather than mistakes they've made. Also another facet of Trumpism of course.

It was there long, long before Trump got anywhere near politics.

And it isn't just "millionaires" or "business people". It's what I call the New Upper 10,000 - they believe that they are ruling class, by right. So whatever they do is Blessed. And any annoying little incidents where little people get broken are not their fault, because they Followed Best Practise. And Lessons Will Be Learned. In their new job, which pays more than the one they fucked up.

The local council instituted cycle lanes - shut down bus lanes to do it. They have now been repeatedly digging up the roads to rework them for about 18 months or so. So, because the cyclists have now got nowhere to actually cycle, they are at greater risk from vehicles on the shrunken roads. Strangely, this has resulted in a number of accidents.

The expert on cycle lanes, working for the Council, furrowed his brow at a meeting (online), in the style of Sir Ian Blair and declared it was all very hard for him. But its OK, because he is off to another council, out of London, to a bigger job....

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

He's going down the Owen Paterson route. It wouldn't surprise me if he got lawyers involved.

Proper decent Tories - remember them? - must be utterly furious because it is now blindingly clear that people like Zahawi, Boris etc., care nothing for the party. They merely used it for their own advancement. Hence the sense of entitlement and snarling fury when thwarted. If these people had any care for the party they serve - let alone the voters - they would resign.

I do wonder why Helen Whately agrees to do the early morning interviews. Every single time I hear or see her she looks as if she's about to burst into tears. Understandably given the rubbish she has to spout. Don't they have any self-respect?

Malmesbury said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

Right now this is 1997

1995

Summer 1995, the Wikiworm poll average was C23 L53, so it's not quite as bad for the Conservatives as that yet. However, Major's "put up or shut up" election saw him gain about 5 points fairly quickly- mostly from the Lib Dems. That took the Conservatives up to about 28. Then there was a gentle drift up to 31 as Britain Boomed over the following two years.

The Conservatives need something - probably several somethings- to avoid falling behind the Major trajectory.

And whilst 165 seats was recoverable, there comes a point where the remnant is just too small to be viable. They can't fall that low... Can they?

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

Right now this is 1997

There are times when I think the next election, 2024, perhaps, will go down in history as a greater victory than 1997.

In many respects the position of the Tories is a lot weaker - the period of Liz Truss as PM is without comparison in British political history. Even historically very poor leaders, deep in English and Scottish history, took a lot longer to bring matters to a point of crisis - Edward II, John (Plantagenet), Mary Queen of Scots.

I suppose you could point to Lady Jane Grey's Nine Days as Queen, but in many respects that was part of the political leadership of the Duke of Northumberland, who had led the government for about three years - eons compared to Liz Truss.

We should not be surprised when unprecedented political events lead to unprecedented electoral consequences, and that is what I expect for the next general election.

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

A relevant difference.
That too is a moving target - and might move a bit faster if government ever get their act together.

For now its getting worse, as the uptake of EVs has outpaced that building of charging facilities, but that will change.

@guardian: Changing attitudes to Brexit, three years on https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2023/jan/30/changing-attitudes-to-brexit-three-years-on

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

This sums up where I am. Forced to get a new car this year by the ULEZ, I find there is currently no vehicle on the market that meets my needs. I buy new and run it until it falls apart 12-15 years later (so already fuming at having to dump my perfectly good 9 year old Mondeo).

I want something Focus sized that is good for at least 12 years so it has to be an EV. Needs a minimum range of 300 miles (nothing is there yet) and needs to fit down my driveway (nearly all models are too wide and also most of them are just too big for my taste). I'm also unconvinced the battery life is good enough yet either. So I'm inclined to sit it out for a couple of years.

I don't really like the idea of buying a second hand car. But I'm increasingly coming to the view that I will have to so maybe this is the time in my life when I could indulge in either an old MG or Land Rover and just hire a proper car whenever I need to do long trips. No road tax, no ULEZ and no depreciation in the meantime.

@nicholaswatt: RT @vicderbyshire: On @BBCNewsnight tonight - how’s Brexit going?

At midnight it’ll be 3 years since UK formally left EU

We’ll be li… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619998850080722950

Dura_Ace said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

He's chatting shit. Teslas charge at about 800 miles range per hour on a Supercharger. Our new iX does 400mph on a normal charger.

The general point is correct, though.
The availability of public charging has significantly lagged the take-up of EVs.

Northern_Al said:

Dura_Ace said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

He's chatting shit. Teslas charge at about 800 miles range per hour on a Supercharger. Our new iX does 400mph on a normal charger.

400mph seems jolly fast.

Talking of which..

I finally got the Firebird to run yesterday. With its new 383 stroker/T56 6 speed and a 3.9 Positrac rear end the computer came up with these numbers.



Its 'only' got 450hp so I don't think it will pull to the 6,000rpm redline in 6th as it has the aerodynamics of a phone box. It also generates negative downforce at over 45mph so brave pills required at triple digits.

Scott_xP said:

beinndearg said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Rishi Sunak really has made a spectacular mess of handling the Zahawi issue. It's been completely obvious for weeks that this was going to end with Zahawi either resigning or being sacked. If Sunak had acted promptly and decisively, he could have got credit for carrying through on his promise to clean things up. Instead he's got the worst of all worlds. His inexperience is showing, I think.

Strong disagree, the eventual outcome has indeed been obvious but he has gone through the hoops which have to be gone through to prevent a narrative of He's weak, the press have claimed a scalp. Think of the hay Zahawi would have made with the Noose headline in the absence of an official report.

Ministers serve at the pleasure of the PM. Sunak should never have appointed him, and should have sacked him weeks ago.

Zahawi can whine all he likes

Don't worry, he's nowhere near challenging you.

.

Driver said:

Nigelb said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

A relevant difference.
That too is a moving target - and might move a bit faster if government ever get their act together.

For now its getting worse, as the uptake of EVs has outpaced that building of charging facilities, but that will change.

Unless the government pays the company that manages my building to put EV charging points in our car park...

I expect they will make that a condition of development (they should) and introduce an obligation on landlords to fit them (they should).
A short term scheme of significantly enhanced capital allowances would be a sensible idea, as the lack of public charging is likely to be a growing problem.

Driver said:

Dura_Ace said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

He's chatting shit. Teslas charge at about 800 miles range per hour on a Supercharger. Our new iX does 400mph on a normal charger.

And, as noted, ICE cars do 400 miles in a handful of minutes...

You'd know about cars, Driver, I'm thinking?

Driver said:

Dura_Ace said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

He's chatting shit. Teslas charge at about 800 miles range per hour on a Supercharger. Our new iX does 400mph on a normal charger.

And, as noted, ICE cars do 400 miles in a handful of minutes...

Also note the average daily mileage in the UK is about 20 miles.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

Up to a point, but the grumpy entitlement shown by NZ does feel like a new distasteful development.

Ministers serve at the PM's arbitrary pleasure. Rishi doesn't have to give a reason at all.

(I wonder if the problem is the one that you risk in meritocracy, namely that the winners think that all their success is down to their brilliance, forgetting all the random bits of good fortune that also came their way.)

Yep, it's an extension of the mindset of the millionaire business people that now proliferate in politics. Miraculously all of them seem to have made it entirely through their own efforts and in spite of rather than because they live in a largely prosperous and peaceful developed state. Any setbacks are seen as an insult to their unique talents, and down to outside factors rather than mistakes they've made. Also another facet of Trumpism of course.

It was there long, long before Trump got anywhere near politics.

And it isn't just "millionaires" or "business people". It's what I call the New Upper 10,000 - they believe that they are ruling class, by right. So whatever they do is Blessed. And any annoying little incidents where little people get broken are not their fault, because they Followed Best Practise. And Lessons Will Be Learned. In their new job, which pays more than the one they fucked up.

The local council instituted cycle lanes - shut down bus lanes to do it. They have now been repeatedly digging up the roads to rework them for about 18 months or so. So, because the cyclists have now got nowhere to actually cycle, they are at greater risk from vehicles on the shrunken roads. Strangely, this has resulted in a number of accidents.

The expert on cycle lanes, working for the Council, furrowed his brow at a meeting (online), in the style of Sir Ian Blair and declared it was all very hard for him. But its OK, because he is off to another council, out of London, to a bigger job....

I'm not sure that the guy who plans cycle lanes for the local council really qualifies for the NU10k.

Apparently, he is on more than Cressida Dick. Consultancy, of course....

So he has the money, and apparently the immunity from reality.

If only we had stopped the boats we could have collapsed the NHS sooner.

Never mind Tories and SKS and Reeves are on it

Dura_Ace said:

PJH said:

old MG or Land Rover

You'll be needing this.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/scheppach-wse4000-multi-30-120a-4-in-1-multi-welder-230v/695xg

Haha yes indeed if I do that!

LostPassword said:

Driver said:

Nigelb said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

A relevant difference.
That too is a moving target - and might move a bit faster if government ever get their act together.

For now its getting worse, as the uptake of EVs has outpaced that building of charging facilities, but that will change.

Unless the government pays the company that manages my building to put EV charging points in our car park then I'm never going to be able to charge an EV car at home. Which (as I WFH mostly) means I'm going to have to take it somewhere to charge it. Which immediately runs into the "much slower than filling a diesel tank" problem.

The company that manages your building may decide to do that themselves, as you become a nearly captive market for buying electricity from them to charge your car.

I think also that the model of fuel stations being specific places you drive to in order to fuel a vehicle will not survive. Eventually most dedicated parking places will have charge points because electricity is easier to handle than petrol/diesel. So every time you park your car will be an opportunity to charge it.

The transition will be a bit messy, but these are solvable problems.

Helped by some strange features of the UK.

Like most lamp posts being wired for 20-32A. WTF did they plan on running from each lamp post? An oven?

Very handy though for EV charging points, since LED lights on the lamppost itself reduce the requirement for power to zilch.

PJH said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

PJH said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

This sums up where I am. Forced to get a new car this year by the ULEZ, I find there is currently no vehicle on the market that meets my needs. I buy new and run it until it falls apart 12-15 years later (so already fuming at having to dump my perfectly good 9 year old Mondeo).

I want something Focus sized that is good for at least 12 years so it has to be an EV. Needs a minimum range of 300 miles (nothing is there yet) and needs to fit down my driveway (nearly all models are too wide and also most of them are just too big for my taste). I'm also unconvinced the battery life is good enough yet either. So I'm inclined to sit it out for a couple of years.

I don't really like the idea of buying a second hand car. But I'm increasingly coming to the view that I will have to so maybe this is the time in my life when I could indulge in either an old MG or Land Rover and just hire a proper car whenever I need to do long trips. No road tax, no ULEZ and no depreciation in the meantime.

If you buy new and run it into the ground 12 years later wouldn't it make more sense to buy a two year old car at a huge discount vs new and run it into the ground 10 years later instead? You obviously have no qualms about driving an old car so why pay through the nose to have a new one for a couple of years? Are you getting some kind of tax break for the new car?

Yes could do that, but I think a 2-year old car has the same issues as a new one, it needs to be an EV. Maybe an older hybrid might work for me. I haven't made up my mind yet by any means. I don't use a car much, a (decreasing) element of Dad's taxi service, odd days out at weekends and long distance weeks or weekends away. I could probably live without altogether to be honest.

You might want to check that, unless you're thinking of the situation ten years down the road.

Most petrol vehicles under 16 years old or diesel vehicles under 6 years old already meet the emissions standards.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ways-to-meet-the-standard

Nigelb said:

Driver said:

Dura_Ace said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

He's chatting shit. Teslas charge at about 800 miles range per hour on a Supercharger. Our new iX does 400mph on a normal charger.

And, as noted, ICE cars do 400 miles in a handful of minutes...

Also note the average daily mileage in the UK is about 20 miles.

Which disguises a whole lot. My annual mileage last year was about 7000 which is, indeed, about 20 miles per day. But about two thirds of that, I estimate, was on trips of 300 miles plus.

Stuartinromford said:

PJH said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

PJH said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

This sums up where I am. Forced to get a new car this year by the ULEZ, I find there is currently no vehicle on the market that meets my needs. I buy new and run it until it falls apart 12-15 years later (so already fuming at having to dump my perfectly good 9 year old Mondeo).

I want something Focus sized that is good for at least 12 years so it has to be an EV. Needs a minimum range of 300 miles (nothing is there yet) and needs to fit down my driveway (nearly all models are too wide and also most of them are just too big for my taste). I'm also unconvinced the battery life is good enough yet either. So I'm inclined to sit it out for a couple of years.

I don't really like the idea of buying a second hand car. But I'm increasingly coming to the view that I will have to so maybe this is the time in my life when I could indulge in either an old MG or Land Rover and just hire a proper car whenever I need to do long trips. No road tax, no ULEZ and no depreciation in the meantime.

If you buy new and run it into the ground 12 years later wouldn't it make more sense to buy a two year old car at a huge discount vs new and run it into the ground 10 years later instead? You obviously have no qualms about driving an old car so why pay through the nose to have a new one for a couple of years? Are you getting some kind of tax break for the new car?

Yes could do that, but I think a 2-year old car has the same issues as a new one, it needs to be an EV. Maybe an older hybrid might work for me. I haven't made up my mind yet by any means. I don't use a car much, a (decreasing) element of Dad's taxi service, odd days out at weekends and long distance weeks or weekends away. I could probably live without altogether to be honest.

You might want to check that, unless you're thinking of the situation ten years down the road.

Most petrol vehicles under 16 years old or diesel vehicles under 6 years old already meet the emissions standards.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ways-to-meet-the-standard

Yes, I'm thinking of fuel availabilty in 2033 (for example) or the fact it might just be taxed to hell by then

bigjohnowls said:

On Topic

SKS will not allow AB to become an MP

LABs right has such a grip on Selections even centre left Candidates are not welcome

You are so wrong there I don't even know where to begin....

@oliver_wright: William Hague categorically rules out becoming the next Conservative chairman. "Under no circumstances" he says.

Malmesbury said:

LostPassword said:

Driver said:

Nigelb said:

beinndearg said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

How do EVs help the environment if much of the electricity to charge them is produced using fossil fuels?

Depends on the fuel. Vehicle efficiency. Power plant efficiency

1 litre of petrol is 8.9 kwh / 2.3 kg of CO2
1 litre of diesel is 10 kwh / 2.7 kg CO2.

So the ~ 550 miles I get out of ~ 50 litres (500 kwh) of diesel produces 135 kg of CO2 - Give or take

4 miles/kg CO2.

How many miles does an EV get out of a kg of CO2 produced ?

That's increasing every year as renewables increase, surely?

What you need is called a Well To Wheels Calculation. This is a the calculation of CO2 emitted from the start of energy production to the actual driving on the road.

Not really, since there are so many disputed factors (the wood pellet burning mentioned above is an example) over so many different modalities, and what is being described is constantly changing.

The point is that the difference between EVs and ICEs is very large on current technology. Arguing over details is entertaining, but it doesn't really shift the calculus.

The relevant difference is 4 minutes to put 400 miles range into my diesel Vs the guy I met at a service station over Christmas who queued for an hour to plug his tesla in for a rationed 90 minutes to get him the next 120 miles.

A relevant difference.
That too is a moving target - and might move a bit faster if government ever get their act together.

For now its getting worse, as the uptake of EVs has outpaced that building of charging facilities, but that will change.

Unless the government pays the company that manages my building to put EV charging points in our car park then I'm never going to be able to charge an EV car at home. Which (as I WFH mostly) means I'm going to have to take it somewhere to charge it. Which immediately runs into the "much slower than filling a diesel tank" problem.

The company that manages your building may decide to do that themselves, as you become a nearly captive market for buying electricity from them to charge your car.

I think also that the model of fuel stations being specific places you drive to in order to fuel a vehicle will not survive. Eventually most dedicated parking places will have charge points because electricity is easier to handle than petrol/diesel. So every time you park your car will be an opportunity to charge it.

The transition will be a bit messy, but these are solvable problems.

Helped by some strange features of the UK.

Like most lamp posts being wired for 20-32A. WTF did they plan on running from each lamp post? An oven?

Very handy though for EV charging points, since LED lights on the lamppost itself reduce the requirement for power to zilch.

Yesterday I drove to three different shops in two different towns and parked in three different off-road car parks. It will take time, but there's no fundamental reason why I won't in future be able to charge an electric car at all three of those car parks.

I had a choice of six different supermarkets in the two different towns, and if only one of them had car charging points in all its car parking spaces then that would certainly be a competitive advantage.

A thousand new Ambulances sounds good but if they are just making a longer queue outside a&e

Malmesbury said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

It seems Zahawi is blaming everyone but himself for his own predicament.

What a petit morceau de merde he is.

It's a very rare thing for a politician to put his hands up and say "fair cop".

Up to a point, but the grumpy entitlement shown by NZ does feel like a new distasteful development.

Ministers serve at the PM's arbitrary pleasure. Rishi doesn't have to give a reason at all.

(I wonder if the problem is the one that you risk in meritocracy, namely that the winners think that all their success is down to their brilliance, forgetting all the random bits of good fortune that also came their way.)

Yep, it's an extension of the mindset of the millionaire business people that now proliferate in politics. Miraculously all of them seem to have made it entirely through their own efforts and in spite of rather than because they live in a largely prosperous and peaceful developed state. Any setbacks are seen as an insult to their unique talents, and down to outside factors rather than mistakes they've made. Also another facet of Trumpism of course.

It was there long, long before Trump got anywhere near politics.

And it isn't just "millionaires" or "business people". It's what I call the New Upper 10,000 - they believe that they are ruling class, by right. So whatever they do is Blessed. And any annoying little incidents where little people get broken are not their fault, because they Followed Best Practise. And Lessons Will Be Learned. In their new job, which pays more than the one they fucked up.

The local council instituted cycle lanes - shut down bus lanes to do it. They have now been repeatedly digging up the roads to rework them for about 18 months or so. So, because the cyclists have now got nowhere to actually cycle, they are at greater risk from vehicles on the shrunken roads. Strangely, this has resulted in a number of accidents.

The expert on cycle lanes, working for the Council, furrowed his brow at a meeting (online), in the style of Sir Ian Blair and declared it was all very hard for him. But its OK, because he is off to another council, out of London, to a bigger job....

I'm not sure that the guy who plans cycle lanes for the local council really qualifies for the NU10k.

Apparently, he is on more than Cressida Dick. Consultancy, of course....

So he has the money, and apparently the immunity from reality.

The private sector is full of well-paid nobodies though (including me!) Am I one of the top 10k influential/powerful people in the UK? No.