Will the Truss link be as damaging to the CON brand as Corbyn was to LAB? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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I agree with much of that - the only part I don't agree with is about being overwhelmed. We're still an island, and will never see the kind of numbers that a country in the East of Europe can face.Casino_Royale said:
Some of us have met them directly. Many have met them without realising it in our lives, at car washes, or in takeaway vans, barbers or cheaper restaurants, for example.nova said:
It's really sad, given that most people will never even meet someone who has travelled across the channel in a boat, or have their life affected by them in any meaningful way.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
You could feel a basic level of human sympathy with many of the billions who don't lead as fulfilling lives as we do, or who are far poorer, and also admire their entrepreneurial spirit in getting here and at the same time recognise that we must have border control and restrictions on numbers, which will involve making some choices, or we simply be overwhelmed with all sorts of unpredictable political outcomes.
Plenty of the "problems" could be solved by simply stopping treating the whole thing as a disaster that needs draconian solutions. Instead of spending the money on anti-woke PR games like Rwanda, spend that money speeding up the asylum system.3 -
Yeah she's got to go. Rishi has kept his word too by giving her the job, that she fucked up is on her. Not sure who would replace her, what other immigration hard liners are there other than Priti Patel?TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this means lied to the House.
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Do you put Harriet Harman in the moron category?RochdalePioneers said:
We could try Fortress Britain. Except that to do so we would need 24 hour patrols in the channel, border guards on Kent and Sussex beaches etc. And the people most against the boat people won't pay for any of that. Just as Trump morons said Mexico should pay for the wall, our morons think France should pay for the tow backs, camps etc.Stuartinromford said:
A bit like what rcs1000 was saying about silver bullets earlier in a different context. A solution can help without being a complete answer.RochdalePioneers said:
Again with the comedy gold. Deporting illegals is fine. Deporting failed asylum seekers is fine. Removing dangerous criminals who slipped in is fine. Etc. Problem remains that to do so you need to properly resource the Home Office and the Border Agency and the Police and the Courts and people like your good self don't support any of that.Driver said:
The handwringers will never accept "just returning" anyone, though...Taz said:
Alternatively we can accept people will come here and set up processing centres in France to process their applications. Give passage to those approved and those who,don’t, if they come over by other means, just return them.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So spending more to process asylum seekers more quickly is worth doing, as is cooperating more with France, as is getting tougher with black market employers. They will lead to fewer people coming in who shouldn't.
Whereas the Fortress Britain model, which might work if we made the walls high enough, isn't working. And, although I can't prove it, probably can't work with a wall height that the people of the UK would be prepared to accept.
https://news.sky.com/story/pay-compensation-for-calais-chaos-harman-10350717
Harriet Harman has written to David Cameron demanding he ask the French for compensation for Britons affected by the chaos at Calais.
Labour's interim leader says the PM should be doing more to recoup the cost of the crisis to haulage firms.
They are estimated to be losing £700,000 a day as a result of delays.
Some lorries are reported to be waiting for days to cross the channel as a result of migrant activity and strikes by French dock workers.0 -
The problem with the search for an alternative is that no alternative is big enough to be worth moving to - people who need/want to be on something like Twitter have to be on Twitter because lots of people are on Twitter. I can't see why a left-wing split would be more successful than any of the right-wing splits that were tried.Nigelb said:.
The possibility of users abandoning the platform isn't a non-issue for Musk, though, and $44bn isn't small change even for him.Farooq said:
I strongly doubt you've found "large numbers" of people who talked about Mastodon a few months ago and who are now saying they should move to Mastodon.FrancisUrquhart said:Have to chuckle at the large numbers of people on twitter now saying we must move to Mastodon because Elon, he richest man in the world control this platform, etc etc etc...as if twitter wasn't controlled by very rich people before (and all the other social media platforms are or the Chinese government). Only a few months ago the very same people would claim that Mastodon is a just home for weirdo and conspiracy nuts banned from twitter.
If he messes too much with the platform and it becomes a dumpster fire, then those who both find, and make it useful will look for an alternative.
It's not impossible that (for example) Reddit might come up with a better interface than they have now, which serves the same purpose.
Reddit isn't really the same thing at all.0 -
Time to reform that law, it was always open to abuse and people pointed it out the moment it was published.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
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Different market, different incentives, though.FrancisUrquhart said:
Other apps have gone to something like this e.g. Tinder, and I believe their revenue has gone through the roof the past 5 years.Nigelb said:Stephen King is not short of a dollar or two, so clearly it's the principle that irks. (6.8m followers.)
$20 a month to keep my blue check? Fuck that, they should pay me. If that gets instituted, I’m gone like Enron.
https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1587042605627490304
Still think it a good idea, Robert ?
I think the root problem is that Twitter's business model, while occupying a fairly unique and useful niche, isn't worth anywhere near $44bn.
And trying to turn it into something that is will quite possibly destroy the existing model.
Trump's reported idea of creating something along the lines of one of the Chinese web services might not be stupid - but trying to do using Twitter as a launchpad seems fundamentally misconceived to me, FWIW.0 -
Yep but that isn’t the issue here - immigration is almost self contained with it’s own tribunals - but the problem is a backlog was built up and we aren’t looking at fixing it.RochdalePioneers said:
A backlog not just of asylum cases. A general backlog due to the huge cuts in our justice system.eek said:
You also don’t want to start from here where there is a 12-18 month backlog of casesRochdalePioneers said:
Again with the comedy gold. Deporting illegals is fine. Deporting failed asylum seekers is fine. Removing dangerous criminals who slipped in is fine. Etc. Problem remains that to do so you need to properly resource the Home Office and the Border Agency and the Police and the Courts and people like your good self don't support any of that.Driver said:
The handwringers will never accept "just returning" anyone, though...Taz said:
Alternatively we can accept people will come here and set up processing centres in France to process their applications. Give passage to those approved and those who,don’t, if they come over by other means, just return them.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
These cases need to be processed in days including all appeals
Even though the cost of not fixing it is £150 per migrant per day0 -
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.0 -
Actually the root cause of twitter's problems has always been they don't know (enough about) their users. If you don't know your users, its very difficult to monetise them. Facebook knows everything about everybody, so can charge a premium for targeted ads while Google / Apple control the online ad pipelines.Nigelb said:
Different market, different incentives, though.FrancisUrquhart said:
Other apps have gone to something like this e.g. Tinder, and I believe their revenue has gone through the roof the past 5 years.Nigelb said:Stephen King is not short of a dollar or two, so clearly it's the principle that irks. (6.8m followers.)
$20 a month to keep my blue check? Fuck that, they should pay me. If that gets instituted, I’m gone like Enron.
https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1587042605627490304
Still think it a good idea, Robert ?
I think the root problem is that Twitter's business model, while occupying a fairly unique and useful niche, isn't worth anywhere near $44bn.
And trying to turn it into something that is will quite possibly destroy the existing model.
Trump's reported idea of creating something along the lines of one of the Chinese web services might not be stupid - but trying to do using Twitter as a launchpad seems fundamentally misconceived to me, FWIW.
Paying for your blue checkmark, $20 per month perhaps not, but I can see people paying an amount. Its absolutely crucial to a lot of people jobs, businesses, etc, to be verified blue check-marked. A corporate entity would pay a lot more than $20 per month to ensure they had theirs, just as they pay out all sorts per month as the cost of doing business.0 -
The issue of charities and assorted lawyers trying to undermine the implementation of any immigration policy is probably the real contemporary equivalent to the undemocratic power of the unions before Thatcher.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
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Around the time when Twitter's price was set Match Group was probably worth around the same value when including any premium for a buy out.Nigelb said:
Different market, different incentives, though.FrancisUrquhart said:
Other apps have gone to something like this e.g. Tinder, and I believe their revenue has gone through the roof the past 5 years.Nigelb said:Stephen King is not short of a dollar or two, so clearly it's the principle that irks. (6.8m followers.)
$20 a month to keep my blue check? Fuck that, they should pay me. If that gets instituted, I’m gone like Enron.
https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1587042605627490304
Still think it a good idea, Robert ?
I think the root problem is that Twitter's business model, while occupying a fairly unique and useful niche, isn't worth anywhere near $44bn.
And trying to turn it into something that is will quite possibly destroy the existing model.
Trump's reported idea of creating something along the lines of one of the Chinese web services might not be stupid - but trying to do using Twitter as a launchpad seems fundamentally misconceived to me, FWIW.1 -
The loss of free access to the European market killed the case for the big players (China; the US; South Korea) to build new plants here.dixiedean said:British Volt.
A bit murky.
Hundreds of people promised work. None materialised.
Levelling up?
Brexit sunk our hope of being a significant part of the re-engineering of the European car industry, without massive government intervention.
The time for committing to any such intervention was several years back.1 -
Control of the Senate rests on a knife’s edge, according to new polls by The New York Times and Siena College, with Republican challengers in Nevada and Georgia neck-and-neck with Democratic incumbents, and the Democratic candidate in Pennsylvania clinging to what appears to be a tenuous advantage.
The bright spot for Democrats in the four key states polled was in Arizona, where Senator Mark Kelly is holding a small but steady lead over his Republican challenger, Blake Masters.
NY Times0 -
So what - enforcing rights is not a democracy. Lucky for the Tories or else they would have been hung drawn and quartered two weeks ago.williamglenn said:
The issue of charities and assorted lawyers trying to undermine the implementation of any immigration policy is probably the real contemporary equivalent to the undemocratic power of the unions before Thatcher.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
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GPS tagging is psychological torture? There's a lot of people Google will have to pay compensation to, then...Casino_Royale said:
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.0 -
Once again, leveraged financing is about to send another business into the garbage compactor.MaxPB said:
Around the time when Twitter's price was set Match Group was probably worth around the same value when including any premium for a buy out.Nigelb said:
Different market, different incentives, though.FrancisUrquhart said:
Other apps have gone to something like this e.g. Tinder, and I believe their revenue has gone through the roof the past 5 years.Nigelb said:Stephen King is not short of a dollar or two, so clearly it's the principle that irks. (6.8m followers.)
$20 a month to keep my blue check? Fuck that, they should pay me. If that gets instituted, I’m gone like Enron.
https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1587042605627490304
Still think it a good idea, Robert ?
I think the root problem is that Twitter's business model, while occupying a fairly unique and useful niche, isn't worth anywhere near $44bn.
And trying to turn it into something that is will quite possibly destroy the existing model.
Trump's reported idea of creating something along the lines of one of the Chinese web services might not be stupid - but trying to do using Twitter as a launchpad seems fundamentally misconceived to me, FWIW.
Without all this new debt on the books (and with the previous direction of travel on hate speech) it was about to become self-sustaining. But no. We need some idiot and his "clever" financing to come in and trash it.0 -
The article suggests that GPS tagging, which monitors every movement, is the problem and that this has only been introduced this year.Casino_Royale said:
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.0 -
And, consequently, a very clear route to electoral success for anyone who cracks it.williamglenn said:
The issue of charities and assorted lawyers trying to undermine the implementation of any immigration policy is probably the real contemporary equivalent to the undemocratic power of the unions before Thatcher.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
Either the Tories do or Rachel Reeves goes to China and does it herself.0 -
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.0 -
BREAKING: Poland strikes a deal with South Korea to construct its second nuclear power plant
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/15870379628014510130 -
These so-called 'hard-liners' seem to be universally shite at actually managing immigration.MaxPB said:
Yeah she's got to go. Rishi has kept his word too by giving her the job, that she fucked up is on her. Not sure who would replace her, what other immigration hard liners are there other than Priti Patel?TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this means lied to the House.
Perhaps it's time for someone vaguely competent in possession of more than two brain cells instead?*
(*I realise such individuals are a rarity in the PCP)1 -
If Rishi only appointed Leaky Sure as quid pro quo for supporting him against BoZo, he has the perfect opportunity to ditch her now.
That he is burning through political capital to keep her (and lied to the House) suggests he wants or needs her in place.
Which is bad...1 -
No but that isn’t the issue here - your question was how do you stop people crossing the channel and to do that you need to stop them traveling to the channelCasino_Royale said:
There are potentially billions of people who'd like a safe and legal route to come here.eek said:
Until we offer a safe and legal route - people will continue to come the illegal way. Only when we have a suitable safe and legal method of applying for residency will the problem be solved.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Heck the fact a lot of the migrants happen to be Albanians who end up working on county lines and similar illegal schemes tells you that no approach is going to 100% work as many peoples desire is to disappear as soon as they arrive in the country. Not even fining employers £x0,000 will solve that side of the issue
Would you admit them all?
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The imagine that any problem persists only because people are not trying hard enough.Anabobazina said:These so-called 'hard-liners' seem to be universally shite at actually managing immigration.
Perhaps it's time for someone vaguely competent in possession of more than two brain cells instead?*
(*I realise such individuals are a rarity in the PCP)
Non-trivial solutions to complex problems are beyond them3 -
Anyone would think that this might be because the approach favoured by the hard liners a) doesn't bloody work and b) they are afraid to implement the policies they purport to favour, because they know the backlash would be enormous (c.f. this morning)Anabobazina said:
These so-called 'hard-liners' seem to be universally shite at actually managing immigration.MaxPB said:
Yeah she's got to go. Rishi has kept his word too by giving her the job, that she fucked up is on her. Not sure who would replace her, what other immigration hard liners are there other than Priti Patel?TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this means lied to the House.
Perhaps it's time for someone vaguely competent in possession of more than two brain cells instead?*
(*I realise such individuals are a rarity in the PCP)1 -
IMPORTANT: Bolsonaro’s most powerful ally in congress, equivalent to House Speaker in US, says “the will of the majority expressed at the ballot box should never be contested.” Clear message to Bolsonaro and a plea for a smooth transition to Lula
https://twitter.com/BrazilBrian/status/15868655350437355521 -
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!1 -
No 10 suggests that when Rishi Sunak said at PMQs that Suella Braverman “raised the matter and accepted her mistake” the PM meant when they discussed getting her old job back, rather than when she resigned. Stretches credulity.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/15870601397770526720 -
That's my man , I knew you were a good unwooliedyed said:
One? I shag one before breakfast, Malcolm, by evening i've desecrated the flockmalcolmg said:
He shagged one sheep, give him a breakAnabobazina said:
You weren't 'slightly off', you were completely wrong, predicting the outcome opposite to the actual outcome. Which would have been fine (it happens to us all) except that you predicted it with the certainty of someone forecasting the sun will rise tomorrow.wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk2 -
Due to give a statement in the House later...
Home Secretary @SuellaBraverman on asylum processing centres0 -
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
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Pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, though.Casino_Royale said:
And, consequently, a very clear route to electoral success for anyone who cracks it.williamglenn said:
The issue of charities and assorted lawyers trying to undermine the implementation of any immigration policy is probably the real contemporary equivalent to the undemocratic power of the unions before Thatcher.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
Either the Tories do or Rachel Reeves goes to China and does it herself.
Labour have got a better chance of reducing the problem, because they aren't quite as dependant on voters who want something visible more than they want something effective.1 -
One week in, and the 'new' government appears to have descended into the same level of abject chaos and incompetence as the Bozo and Truss regimes.3
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Wonder how long that 'best PM' lead will last?Scott_xP said:No 10 suggests that when Rishi Sunak said at PMQs that Suella Braverman “raised the matter and accepted her mistake” the PM meant when they discussed getting her old job back, rather than when she resigned. Stretches credulity.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/15870601397770526720 -
Will a military or judicial coup save your position? Or this is this it, a Wooliedamus? 😟wooliedyed said:
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!0 -
Your solution to stopping boats across the channel is to throw open the gates at the ports and airports.eek said:
No but that isn’t the issue here - your question was how do you stop people crossing the channel and to do that you need to stop them traveling to the channelCasino_Royale said:
There are potentially billions of people who'd like a safe and legal route to come here.eek said:
Until we offer a safe and legal route - people will continue to come the illegal way. Only when we have a suitable safe and legal method of applying for residency will the problem be solved.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Heck the fact a lot of the migrants happen to be Albanians who end up working on county lines and similar illegal schemes tells you that no approach is going to 100% work as many peoples desire is to disappear as soon as they arrive in the country. Not even fining employers £x0,000 will solve that side of the issue
Would you admit them all?
That isn't a solution, except to say the solution to stopping myself being embarassed by my wife's adultery is to say to everyone else we're in an open relationship.0 -
To be fair to you - Bolsonaro got very close to getting re-elected.wooliedyed said:
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!
The irony is that Lula is pretty squeaky clean by the abysmal standards of Brazilian graft.
Still attacking your opponent's strength worked against Kerry.0 -
Good uns club is the only club to be inmalcolmg said:
That's my man , I knew you were a good unwooliedyed said:
One? I shag one before breakfast, Malcolm, by evening i've desecrated the flockmalcolmg said:
He shagged one sheep, give him a breakAnabobazina said:
You weren't 'slightly off', you were completely wrong, predicting the outcome opposite to the actual outcome. Which would have been fine (it happens to us all) except that you predicted it with the certainty of someone forecasting the sun will rise tomorrow.wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk0 -
It would require a very strategic approach so that the government doesn't end up two steps behind the activists.Casino_Royale said:
And, consequently, a very clear route to electoral success for anyone who cracks it.williamglenn said:
The issue of charities and assorted lawyers trying to undermine the implementation of any immigration policy is probably the real contemporary equivalent to the undemocratic power of the unions before Thatcher.Casino_Royale said:
Yup. They will be receiving excellent (and free) legal advice from left-wing immigration lawyers as soon as they land about this.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
Either the Tories do or Rachel Reeves goes to China and does it herself.
We also need a major rethink about the nature of "soft power" so that it isn't confused with being a soft touch.1 -
Indeed. Funny old world.mwadams said:
Anyone would think that this might be because the approach favoured by the hard liners a) doesn't bloody work and b) they are afraid to implement the policies they purport to favour, because they know the backlash would be enormous (c.f. this morning)Anabobazina said:
These so-called 'hard-liners' seem to be universally shite at actually managing immigration.MaxPB said:
Yeah she's got to go. Rishi has kept his word too by giving her the job, that she fucked up is on her. Not sure who would replace her, what other immigration hard liners are there other than Priti Patel?TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this means lied to the House.
Perhaps it's time for someone vaguely competent in possession of more than two brain cells instead?*
(*I realise such individuals are a rarity in the PCP)1 -
https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1587047522551447554rottenborough said:Control of the Senate rests on a knife’s edge, according to new polls by The New York Times and Siena College, with Republican challengers in Nevada and Georgia neck-and-neck with Democratic incumbents, and the Democratic candidate in Pennsylvania clinging to what appears to be a tenuous advantage.
The bright spot for Democrats in the four key states polled was in Arizona, where Senator Mark Kelly is holding a small but steady lead over his Republican challenger, Blake Masters.
NY TimesTo me, the most interesting dimension of the poll: Dems running an avg of 8 points ahead of Senate control preference (R+4 on average). Illustrates key dynamic of the race -- a favorable environment for Rs v. bad candidates -- and helps square with the national picture0 -
She raised the matter that everyone already knew?Scott_xP said:No 10 suggests that when Rishi Sunak said at PMQs that Suella Braverman “raised the matter and accepted her mistake” the PM meant when they discussed getting her old job back, rather than when she resigned. Stretches credulity.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1587060139777052672
Hmmmm, treating the public like idiots doesn't (always) work0 -
Because no-one wishes to put people into jeopardy which is what you are doing if you tow a boat and leave it outside landCasino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
The point is that there are zero easy options here as you demonstrated with your attack on my comment regarding setting up application centers closer to the places where valid immigrants are coming from0 -
This is ridiculous. It's like saying a way to stop teenagers dying crossing railway tracks is to make all trains travel at 10mph. Obviously the solution space has other constraints. The idea that you reduce deaths by letting in more people was fundamentally proven drivel by Merkel. Her "open legal routes" approach just massively ramped up demand and more people traveled and more people died.eek said:
No but that isn’t the issue here - your question was how do you stop people crossing the channel and to do that you need to stop them traveling to the channelCasino_Royale said:
There are potentially billions of people who'd like a safe and legal route to come here.eek said:
Until we offer a safe and legal route - people will continue to come the illegal way. Only when we have a suitable safe and legal method of applying for residency will the problem be solved.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Heck the fact a lot of the migrants happen to be Albanians who end up working on county lines and similar illegal schemes tells you that no approach is going to 100% work as many peoples desire is to disappear as soon as they arrive in the country. Not even fining employers £x0,000 will solve that side of the issue
Would you admit them all?
Also the "international community" is a misnomer. Other than Ukraine, where we are doing plenty, the vast majority of refugees come from the Middle East. And Middle Eastern wealthy countries are taking next to no refugees.0 -
Electronic tagging has been going on for years. In fact, it was under the previous Labour administration.nova said:
The article suggests that GPS tagging, which monitors every movement, is the problem and that this has only been introduced this year.Casino_Royale said:
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.
Are you suggesting that if the migrants were ankle-tagged (without GPS) then suddenly these organisations would be OK with it?1 -
Hopefully long enough for her to make another mistake and have to resign again.wooliedyed said:
Wonder how long that 'best PM' lead will last?Scott_xP said:No 10 suggests that when Rishi Sunak said at PMQs that Suella Braverman “raised the matter and accepted her mistake” the PM meant when they discussed getting her old job back, rather than when she resigned. Stretches credulity.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/15870601397770526720 -
On the day Braverman was sacked as Home Secretary, lobby colleagues - myself included - were briefed by No 10 that she had leaked market sensitive information. It was widely reported as fact. Yet Downing Street denying that today. 🧐
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/15870642950488596490 -
How lucky there are only 8 billion humans then, with population forecast (which I don’t believe) to top out at 10.4 billion in 2100.Heathener said:
Yeah well obviously not. I mean, really, this is to state the bleedin' obvious. That's why I put 'carefully managed.'JosiasJessop said:
Just adding another, more general point: IMV mass tourism is *not* a good way to preserve pristine wildernesses. Mass tourism is inherently resource-hungry and polluting. You can have 'carefully managed' small-volume tourism (e.g. the Antarctic), but the finds raised from that would be absolutely trifling compared to the policing costs.JosiasJessop said:
It's an interesting idea, but there are massive problems with it:Heathener said:
Yes yes and yes.biggles said:Is…. is it over? Can we say Bolsonaro lost? Might there still be a rain forest?
Someone on here posted yesterday that the world really ought to step in and support Brazil financially to save the Amazon. It really does matter and yes we should. We could probably do so in conjunction with a carefully managed eco-tourism. Think of the Amazon as a giant Eden Project or Serengeti and you get the idea.
p.s. Good morning!
*) There is a good chance that any monetary aid given disappears down a black hole, and the rainforest continues to be destroyed. How do you ensure it does not?
*) It is a massive area. The cost to police any operations would be truly massive.
*) As well as the size of the area, the transport network is very poor, hindering policing. This means more local police, who are easily bribed or cowed. Or increasing transport links, which then makes access for bad people easier...
*) There is not the political will to do it in Brazil. Occasional good words about it, but too many in Brazil see it as a resource to be plundered.
The idea that we can leave this places alone is I'm afraid out with the fairies. The world just ain't that way anymore. If you don't intervene they get obliterated. Yes it's very very sad. But the fact now remains that we have to hold our noses and accept a degree of compromise in terms of visitor numbers for the greater good.
That's why, despite my liking your earlier thoughtful comments, my idea is a better one. We need to step in globally to support Brazil in protecting the Amazon. Yes yes money abroad sometimes goes astray but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen and there are ways of mitigating against it.
And if you don't educate the planet through interaction you don't educate.
Of course, much of this, as with most things, comes down to the fact that this planet cannot support 10 billion people.
Feed the Nine!
0 -
And the Navy have been very clear that they are not equipped to do such a thing.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.0 -
Whenever anyone proposes such a thing we nearly always get pushback due to it infringing civil liberties. No party wants ID cards, or more KYC regulations, or police raids, or more intrusive HMRC, or local government keeping track of home occupation. Which are the sort of things you would have to do at a minimum to get a hold on things.RochdalePioneers said:Absobloodylutely. Have I not made this point repeatedly? Kill the black economy and you remove the pull - the ability to disappear and work cash in hand.
0 -
Slavery is just about plausible. There are lots of Albanian gangsters based here already so it would be no great surprise if they provide off-the-books work outside the law.xyzxyzxyz said:A commentator on Guido said that the Albanians are not claiming political asylum but that they are victims of slavery. There is no provision in law for them to be removed once they are in the UK.
0 -
Farage is going to be prime minister pretty soon unless these border problems are resolved.0
-
Meanwhile, for anyone uncertain of the difference between "beleaguered" and "embattled"...
https://roberthutton.co.uk/portfolio/political-scandals-a-primer/ https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1587064028031074308/photo/10 -
Nah, to be fair I went in two footed with a cheeky 'against the head' that i did think might just about happen but it was gash, rash and flash and im paying due penanceMoonRabbit said:
Will a military or judicial coup save your position? Or this is this it, a Wooliedamus? 😟wooliedyed said:
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!0 -
No it isn’t my solution is - want to come to the UK from Syria start the process in turkeyCasino_Royale said:
Your solution to stopping boats across the channel is to throw open the gates at the ports and airports.eek said:
No but that isn’t the issue here - your question was how do you stop people crossing the channel and to do that you need to stop them traveling to the channelCasino_Royale said:
There are potentially billions of people who'd like a safe and legal route to come here.eek said:
Until we offer a safe and legal route - people will continue to come the illegal way. Only when we have a suitable safe and legal method of applying for residency will the problem be solved.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Heck the fact a lot of the migrants happen to be Albanians who end up working on county lines and similar illegal schemes tells you that no approach is going to 100% work as many peoples desire is to disappear as soon as they arrive in the country. Not even fining employers £x0,000 will solve that side of the issue
Would you admit them all?
That isn't a solution, except to say the solution to stopping myself being embarassed by my wife's adultery is to say to everyone else we're in an open relationship.
Want to come from Afghanistan start your application in Pakistan or a safe nearby country
The last thing you want to do is to allow people to arrive in the UK and start the process - you tell them to go somewhere safe and start it there0 -
Ultimately unsurprising. Rishi doesn't have the flaws of Johnson or Truss, but he's not the Messiah. And his Cabinet is drawn from the same dismal pool as his predecessors.SandyRentool said:One week in, and the 'new' government appears to have descended into the same level of abject chaos and incompetence as the Bozo and Truss regimes.
0 -
Can't tow someone who won't take and secure the tow line. grappling hooks contra indicated for rubber boats. Overloaded ribs are a bugger to tow anyway.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
So easy rule of thumb, refuse a tow unless the offering boat says RNLI in letters a yard high0 -
.
Very good ideas.MaxPB said:
So disabuse them of that notion. Have the crackdown, shut down all of the carwashes and deport them all, shutdown all of the restaurants hiring illegal workers and deport them all, huge fines for all of the firms with dodgy site labourers being paid cash. Have a series of no warning inspections and don't give the businesses doing the dirt a way out with paying fines, just shut them down, no right of appeal, directors barred from opening a business for 20 years.bondegezou said:
Punishments being made stronger don't work if people don't think they'll be caught.MaxPB said:
We have legal routes of migration. If they don't qualify then it's hard no. We need to end the pull factor and make the trip completely uneconomic. A huge crackdown on illegal work, a deal with France to end the boat crossings and ensuring legitimate migrants are given access to legal routes of migration. The default approach should be deportation for all illegal immigrants with no right of appeal and barring that person from ever being able to legally migrate to the UK. Make the cost of illegal immigration extremely high.Taz said:
Alternatively we can accept people will come here and set up processing centres in France to process their applications. Give passage to those approved and those who,don’t, if they come over by other means, just return them.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
Then post a policeman at the dwelling of everyone on any dangerous watchlist (terrorism, domestic abuse, you name it) and have that policeman accompany that person everywhere they go.
Then put a policeman in every supermarket in the country to deter shoplifters and, should shoplifting occur, the culprit should be given five years imprisonment.
A few more measures like that should make a serious indent into our crime stats.
But wait. It's not going to happen. None of it. Including your measures to deter/prevent illegal immigration.
So why don't we instead think about what is workable and doable. Not what might be workable but is as we have seen, transparently obviously not doable.0 -
You don't inherit that title by getting a close-ish call wrong.MoonRabbit said:
Will a military or judicial coup save your position? Or this is this it, a Wooliedamus? 😟wooliedyed said:
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!
It needs to be something utterly absurd - like (perhaps ?) saying that Truss would surprise on the upside...4 -
Do you think the prime minister Rishi Sunak should or should not attend the COP27 climate change conference in Egypt in November?
Definitely should: 36%
Probably should: 25%
Probably should not: 11%
Definitely should not: 9%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/15870467269212241920 -
We were talking about twitter this morning and a possible revenue model.Nigelb said:IMPORTANT: Bolsonaro’s most powerful ally in congress, equivalent to House Speaker in US, says “the will of the majority expressed at the ballot box should never be contested.” Clear message to Bolsonaro and a plea for a smooth transition to Lula
https://twitter.com/BrazilBrian/status/1586865535043735552
I love it when people put "IMPORTANT" at the beginning of a tweet. Says who the fuck. Perhaps an extra fiver for having the temerity to do that.3 -
Seriously can someone just tell the truth and by someone I mean the Home Secretary.
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1587065290784923653
https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/15870631667684966400 -
The notion that it's the job of politicians to "educate" the voters belongs to a different era.Casino_Royale said:
What would you have them educate their base on?mwadams said:
The real solution to the problem comes from another direction: the right deciding that it isn't a wedge issue any more and starting to educate their base about the realities of immigration. And I'm afraid that is unlikely to happen.glw said:
I honestly think this is an unsolvable problem, much like illegal migration to the US through the Mexican border. We can't make coming to the UK unattractive or the journey sufficiently dangerous in order to deter people. Nobody is going to want the sort of police state that would catch enough illegal migrants, and nobody is going to start sinking boats making the crossing.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
So we will have tens of thousands of illegal migrants crossing the channel every year. I've not heard of any solution that sounds like it could work. The only thing that would stop illegal crossings is simply throwing the doors wide open for unlimited immigration.0 -
The Braverman justification for her repeated breaches of security is laughable. The Home Office doesn't issue IT equipment such as a laptop?0
-
Ask the same question about attending the local village fete. We probably want our politicians to do everything.Nigelb said:Do you think the prime minister Rishi Sunak should or should not attend the COP27 climate change conference in Egypt in November?
Definitely should: 36%
Probably should: 25%
Probably should not: 11%
Definitely should not: 9%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/15870467269212241921 -
"@Nigel_Farage
The Channel crisis has now become an emergency.
If Home Secretary Suella Braverman wants to keep her job, she needs to come out of hiding — and quickly.
11:13 AM · Oct 31, 2022"
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/15870401742314864640 -
Not close enough! Nah, I tried to semi bluff a hail mary. I did think he might pull it off but i was wrong. End of.Keystone said:
To be fair to you - Bolsonaro got very close to getting re-elected.wooliedyed said:
I went for Bolsonaro for the win, Rabbit. I muckered it upper me arse. I begged him to put the fix in and save me but no, he couldnt even do thatMoonRabbit said:
Oh Wooly! What did I miss? Why are they teasing you so cruelly - philosophically asking “if someone shags just the one sheep, does it really make them a sheepshagger?”wooliedyed said:
I was slightly off, he didnt. My failed prediction fortunately has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the facts that data provide howeverAnabobazina said:
How is your certain call from last night that Bolsonaro will be re-elected looking?wooliedyed said:
Actually voters are. Votes in local by elections taken in the round do not support the 25 point lead poll respondees giveSirNorfolkPassmore said:
I'm not a Labour supporter but, if I were, I'd note that the mismatch between polling and betting indicates that, while punters may be sceptical about Starmer, voters aren't. And I'd rather it was that way around.StuartDickson said:
Agreed. Punters are clearly sceptical about Starmer.Andy_JS said:
Awful figures for Labour when they have a 25 point lead in the polls.StuartDickson said:NOM 2.3
Lab Maj 2.4
Con Maj 5.6
More realistically, it indicates that punters (probably correctly) believe Sunak is a more credible opponent to Starmer than Truss was, and the 25% lead (more than half of which opened up rather quickly in recent weeks due to consistently appalling news for the Conservatives) is likely to narrow. That isn't a judgment on Starmer as such.
#theoracleofnorfolk
You predicted victory for Tropical Trump? now the legend of The Wooliedamus has been born? 😕
It was a definite politicalbetting event I missed as how close it got. Apparently the Balrog stole the show?
Instead of saying Whose The Daddy, will we go around saying Whose The Balrog?
I’m Balrogging this book!
They’ve only gone and Balroggered it!
The irony is that Lula is pretty squeaky clean by the abysmal standards of Brazilian graft.
Still attacking your opponent's strength worked against Kerry.
I did clarify to Double Carpet it wasnt a betting tip, i would feel really bad if people thought it was, hence i'd always preface that with 'BETTING TIP'. In hindsight evening exuberance caused me to post it in a daft way that earned its mickery mockery0 -
Leaky Sue made ONE mistake.
SIX TIMES...1 -
We seem to have Priti Patel briefing that she was "softer" and more accommodating of people claiming asylum in the UK than the present Home Secretary. There really must be some easily foreseeable and avoidable trouble ahead for the Home Office.
https://twitter.com/fatshez/status/15870658022887751680 -
Who was British Volt supposed to be building batteries for? The current post-Brexit settlement makes the UK a pain in the arse to manufacture complex things like cars with JIT sourcing of components from across Europe.Nigelb said:
The loss of free access to the European market killed the case for the big players (China; the US; South Korea) to build new plants here.dixiedean said:British Volt.
A bit murky.
Hundreds of people promised work. None materialised.
Levelling up?
Brexit sunk our hope of being a significant part of the re-engineering of the European car industry, without massive government intervention.
The time for committing to any such intervention was several years back.0 -
Yeah i think if this is prefaced with who will be there for team UK it might be less pressing for Rishi to go with peopleSlackbladder said:
Ask the same question about attending the local village fete. We probably want our politicians to do everything.Nigelb said:Do you think the prime minister Rishi Sunak should or should not attend the COP27 climate change conference in Egypt in November?
Definitely should: 36%
Probably should: 25%
Probably should not: 11%
Definitely should not: 9%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/15870467269212241920 -
The key sentence being “warning that the voters would punish such slackness [on security matters]”…DavidL said:
What an idiot.Foxy said:I see Lord Dannatt threatens a military coup.
https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1586832338239033350?t=SC3l3ufn3KFZt_B0iA2x8A&s=09
The Metro has utterly misreported him in the headline. I’m surprised you fell for it
0 -
It all stems from the fact Sunak does not have courage of his own convictions, like the lion in Wizard of Oz - he wants the right in the party and in the media, to regard him as their friend. He’s trying to be accommodating but as days ticks by accommodating hits reality there is only so much accommodating he can do, if others won’t play ball. Examples? Did Boris have to put it out there he was going to COP to hang out with his fellow VIPs? Did he have to make Leaky Sue HomeSec despite her back history of supporting only her beliefs not those of collective government?SandyRentool said:One week in, and the 'new' government appears to have descended into the same level of abject chaos and incompetence as the Bozo and Truss regimes.
In short, what’s shredding this latest Prime Minister is he is such a scaredy-cat.0 -
I'm pointing out that the article was specifically about GPS tagging. Saying that it's been done for years is factually incorrect.Casino_Royale said:
Electronic tagging has been going on for years. In fact, it was under the previous Labour administration.nova said:
The article suggests that GPS tagging, which monitors every movement, is the problem and that this has only been introduced this year.Casino_Royale said:
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.
Are you suggesting that if the migrants were ankle-tagged (without GPS) then suddenly these organisations would be OK with it?
It's also a pilot scheme, so these organisations wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't provide feedback.
Asking me to guess whether they would be angry about something different, is not the best way to say "oh yes- I didn't actually read the article".0 -
What's the point of a border force that doesn't defend the borders of the country? That's literally their job.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.0 -
This isn't a scenario where the only options are "let everyone in" or "sink the boats". There are a myriad of solutions in the middle. We just refuse to consider them as a country because the government are afraid of the minority of voters who don't understand reality.Casino_Royale said:
Your solution to stopping boats across the channel is to throw open the gates at the ports and airports.eek said:
No but that isn’t the issue here - your question was how do you stop people crossing the channel and to do that you need to stop them traveling to the channelCasino_Royale said:
There are potentially billions of people who'd like a safe and legal route to come here.eek said:
Until we offer a safe and legal route - people will continue to come the illegal way. Only when we have a suitable safe and legal method of applying for residency will the problem be solved.Casino_Royale said:
Oh God, why do we always come back here.RochdalePioneers said:
Its not all Macron. We could start by honouring our international obligations and reopen legal routes for people to apply for asylum from all the countries where we have removed it. Resource up the system properly. Rejoin the international community in collectively managing refugees.Casino_Royale said:I think the boats are the number one political issue for the conservative base right now, because if not fixed it will splinter to Reform and even Rachel Reeves may outflank.
If I were Rishi Sunak I'd almost be inclined to ask Macron to name his price for stopping them. All of them.
In short, the right could grow up. Don't hold your breath.
You will never get a hearing for "safe and legal routes" - ever - until you get control of the border. Because otherwise all people will hear is: I want to make it even easier to come here for anyone who wants to come.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Heck the fact a lot of the migrants happen to be Albanians who end up working on county lines and similar illegal schemes tells you that no approach is going to 100% work as many peoples desire is to disappear as soon as they arrive in the country. Not even fining employers £x0,000 will solve that side of the issue
Would you admit them all?
That isn't a solution, except to say the solution to stopping myself being embarassed by my wife's adultery is to say to everyone else we're in an open relationship.2 -
Two years to go...Farooq said:
This can only be fixed by having an election. The Conservative party is in too big a mess to govern.Scott_xP said:If Rishi only appointed Leaky Sure as quid pro quo for supporting him against BoZo, he has the perfect opportunity to ditch her now.
That he is burning through political capital to keep her (and lied to the House) suggests he wants or needs her in place.
Which is bad...0 -
Max’s idea is workable - it’s small enough that the impact isn’t that great.TOPPING said:.
Very good ideas.MaxPB said:
So disabuse them of that notion. Have the crackdown, shut down all of the carwashes and deport them all, shutdown all of the restaurants hiring illegal workers and deport them all, huge fines for all of the firms with dodgy site labourers being paid cash. Have a series of no warning inspections and don't give the businesses doing the dirt a way out with paying fines, just shut them down, no right of appeal, directors barred from opening a business for 20 years.bondegezou said:
Punishments being made stronger don't work if people don't think they'll be caught.MaxPB said:
We have legal routes of migration. If they don't qualify then it's hard no. We need to end the pull factor and make the trip completely uneconomic. A huge crackdown on illegal work, a deal with France to end the boat crossings and ensuring legitimate migrants are given access to legal routes of migration. The default approach should be deportation for all illegal immigrants with no right of appeal and barring that person from ever being able to legally migrate to the UK. Make the cost of illegal immigration extremely high.Taz said:
Alternatively we can accept people will come here and set up processing centres in France to process their applications. Give passage to those approved and those who,don’t, if they come over by other means, just return them.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
Then post a policeman at the dwelling of everyone on any dangerous watchlist (terrorism, domestic abuse, you name it) and have that policeman accompany that person everywhere they go.
Then put a policeman in every supermarket in the country to deter shoplifters and, should shoplifting occur, the culprit should be given five years imprisonment.
A few more measures like that should make a serious indent into our crime stats.
But wait. It's not going to happen. None of it. Including your measures to deter/prevent illegal immigration.
So why don't we instead think about what is workable and doable. Not what might be workable but is as we have seen, transparently obviously not doable.
As for whether it works or not - Max missed one important factor. The illegal immigrant who reports the company isn’t treated as an illegal immigrant if he reports the case. Instead reporting the company employing him / her triggers a reward of some form or other rather than instant deportation.
Currently the incentive of all parties who are illegal or employ illegal workers is to keep quiet about it. The fix we need is to utterly change the incentive for one of the parties involved.
And that means we need to incentivize illegal immigrants to report illegal employers to the extent that employers have major incentives to never employ an illegal worker
0 -
"Attack on your comment" = disagreeing with you.eek said:
Because no-one wishes to put people into jeopardy which is what you are doing if you tow a boat and leave it outside landCasino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
The point is that there are zero easy options here as you demonstrated with your attack on my comment regarding setting up application centers closer to the places where valid immigrants are coming from
Australia has no such issues. However, the metastasising tumour that is Wokery has now taken a firm hold amongst all branches of our public sector and quango institutions so they'd simply refuse to do it.
A clear out and reset might work.0 -
No, he really isn'tAndy_JS said:Farage is going to be prime minister pretty soon unless these border problems are resolved.
3 -
Their entire business plan was if we build it customers will come.RochdalePioneers said:
Who was British Volt supposed to be building batteries for? The current post-Brexit settlement makes the UK a pain in the arse to manufacture complex things like cars with JIT sourcing of components from across Europe.Nigelb said:
The loss of free access to the European market killed the case for the big players (China; the US; South Korea) to build new plants here.dixiedean said:British Volt.
A bit murky.
Hundreds of people promised work. None materialised.
Levelling up?
Brexit sunk our hope of being a significant part of the re-engineering of the European car industry, without massive government intervention.
The time for committing to any such intervention was several years back.
And when you asked where the customers would actually come from you got a shrug at best (and clear lies when you pressed the point).
The irony is that there is a big investment at Teesworks on a lithium refining plant that will produce 15% of Europe’s needs and that’s going ahead regardless1 -
RN wouldn't. Give them the order and they'll do it. The Australian and Greek navies did.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.0 -
The solution is ID cards.glw said:
Whenever anyone proposes such a thing we nearly always get pushback due to it infringing civil liberties. No party wants ID cards, or more KYC regulations, or police raids, or more intrusive HMRC, or local government keeping track of home occupation. Which are the sort of things you would have to do at a minimum to get a hold on things.RochdalePioneers said:Absobloodylutely. Have I not made this point repeatedly? Kill the black economy and you remove the pull - the ability to disappear and work cash in hand.
I hate it to. But at some point, Nixon has to go to China, and a Tory PM must announce a Belgian-style registration system.0 -
He’s actually likeable. He was genuinely cross when Boris made the Saville Attack I am sure.wooliedyed said:
Wonder how long that 'best PM' lead will last?Scott_xP said:No 10 suggests that when Rishi Sunak said at PMQs that Suella Braverman “raised the matter and accepted her mistake” the PM meant when they discussed getting her old job back, rather than when she resigned. Stretches credulity.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1587060139777052672
But a u turn on COP followed by a U turn on Braverman, and voters unlikely to regard him a strong PM.
For all those telling me these first two months won’t matter a fig with two years still to go, I really think these first two months will matter.
There’s a phrase in politics “the writing on the wall” where voters stop listening to you even years from election.0 -
That could be fun.Andy_JS said:Farage is going to be prime minister pretty soon unless these border problems are resolved.
PMF: Right, I'm in charge. Tow the boats back
Navy: We don't have the ability to do so
PMF: Right, get the bloody French to do it
FCDO: The French politely decline
PMT: Right, get my flat cap ready. I'll machine gun them personally0 -
Refusing to kill people or break the law now falls inside the boundaries of this nebulous and undefined thing called “wokery”.Casino_Royale said:
"Attack on your comment" = disagreeing with you.eek said:
Because no-one wishes to put people into jeopardy which is what you are doing if you tow a boat and leave it outside landCasino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
The point is that there are zero easy options here as you demonstrated with your attack on my comment regarding setting up application centers closer to the places where valid immigrants are coming from
Australia has no such issues. However, the metastasising tumour that is Wokery has now taken a firm hold amongst all branches of our public sector and quango institutions so they'd simply refuse to do it.
A clear out and reset might work.
1 -
How about an option for doing it via Zoom like sensible people who really care about the planet?Nigelb said:Do you think the prime minister Rishi Sunak should or should not attend the COP27 climate change conference in Egypt in November?
Definitely should: 36%
Probably should: 25%
Probably should not: 11%
Definitely should not: 9%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/15870467269212241920 -
Australia isn’t a short 2 hr dingy ride from France - Dover / Kent/ Hastings isCasino_Royale said:
"Attack on your comment" = disagreeing with you.eek said:
Because no-one wishes to put people into jeopardy which is what you are doing if you tow a boat and leave it outside landCasino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
The point is that there are zero easy options here as you demonstrated with your attack on my comment regarding setting up application centers closer to the places where valid immigrants are coming from
Australia has no such issues. However, the metastasising tumour that is Wokery has now taken a firm hold amongst all branches of our public sector and quango institutions so they'd simply refuse to do it.
A clear out and reset might work.0 -
You either know you can't do that or you don't Assuming she did know it was wrong, doing it six times suggests she should no longer be in her position.Scott_xP said:Leaky Sue made ONE mistake.
SIX TIMES...0 -
I'm sitting in my local pub right now (last day of paternity leave) and the five locals at the bar are discussing the boats across the channel *right this minute* and spitting teeth about it.
This is cutting through. Hugely.0 -
I'd support a similar measure, right here on PB, for anyone who prefaces a post:TOPPING said:
We were talking about twitter this morning and a possible revenue model.Nigelb said:IMPORTANT: Bolsonaro’s most powerful ally in congress, equivalent to House Speaker in US, says “the will of the majority expressed at the ballot box should never be contested.” Clear message to Bolsonaro and a plea for a smooth transition to Lula
https://twitter.com/BrazilBrian/status/1586865535043735552
I love it when people put "IMPORTANT" at the beginning of a tweet. Says who the fuck. Perhaps an extra fiver for having the temerity to do that.
BREAKING
And, while we are at it, a £10 fine for any of the below. Easy money for OGH...
• Doing some heavy lifting
• Colour me …
• IANAE/IANAL
• Feature, not a bug
• Ad hom
• This
• It’s a view
• North of [to mean more than]
• As I’ve said passim
• One of those irregular verbs
• Late of this parish
• Nail. Head.
• Unspoofable
0 -
That's not their job at all. Their job is to follow the orders of the government.Andy_JS said:
What's the point of a border force that doesn't defend the borders of the country? That's literally their job.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
What member of the government would implement tow back as a policy.
Is where you should be starting from.0 -
This.Anabobazina said:
I'd support a similar measure, right here on PB, for anyone who prefaces a post:TOPPING said:
We were talking about twitter this morning and a possible revenue model.Nigelb said:IMPORTANT: Bolsonaro’s most powerful ally in congress, equivalent to House Speaker in US, says “the will of the majority expressed at the ballot box should never be contested.” Clear message to Bolsonaro and a plea for a smooth transition to Lula
https://twitter.com/BrazilBrian/status/1586865535043735552
I love it when people put "IMPORTANT" at the beginning of a tweet. Says who the fuck. Perhaps an extra fiver for having the temerity to do that.
BREAKING
And, while we are at it, a £10 fine for any of the below. Easy money for OGH...
• Doing some heavy lifting
• Colour me …
• IANAE/IANAL
• Feature, not a bug
• Ad hom
• This
• It’s a view
• North of [to mean more than]
• As I’ve said passim
• One of those irregular verbs
• Late of this parish
• Nail. Head.
• Unspoofable
3 -
For all of which the writing went on the wall during this Honeymoon Period.Driver said:
Two years to go...Farooq said:
This can only be fixed by having an election. The Conservative party is in too big a mess to govern.Scott_xP said:If Rishi only appointed Leaky Sure as quid pro quo for supporting him against BoZo, he has the perfect opportunity to ditch her now.
That he is burning through political capital to keep her (and lied to the House) suggests he wants or needs her in place.
Which is bad...0 -
DougSeal said:
Refusing to kill people or break the law now falls inside the boundaries of this nebulous and undefined thing called “wokery”.Casino_Royale said:
"Attack on your comment" = disagreeing with you.eek said:
Because no-one wishes to put people into jeopardy which is what you are doing if you tow a boat and leave it outside landCasino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.
The point is that there are zero easy options here as you demonstrated with your attack on my comment regarding setting up application centers closer to the places where valid immigrants are coming from
Australia has no such issues. However, the metastasising tumour that is Wokery has now taken a firm hold amongst all branches of our public sector and quango institutions so they'd simply refuse to do it.
A clear out and reset might work.
Saying, "what does Wokery mean?" is simply Libtard code for disagreeing such a thing exists, because they lack the self-awareness to see that anyone could possibly or reasonably disagree with them.0 -
Great IT security anecdote.
Whitehall IT security: under Coalition the Civ Service gave proximity keys to ppl in sensitive jobs: phone won’t open unless the tag is nearby, in case of theft. But if you leave the tag at home you can’t use yr phone all day. Solution? They sellotaped the tags to the phones. 🤦♂️
I discovered this by asking why so many government Blackberries seemed to be held together by gaffer tape…
It’s a completely predictable security failing, really - a good example of why a secure system isn’t secure if it becomes impractical for people to use it.
https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/15870070890707025920 -
Technically the issue is just right to work checks being done correctly and a change in incentives so not all the parties involved in employing illegal workers are incentivized to keep things secret.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The solution is ID cards.glw said:
Whenever anyone proposes such a thing we nearly always get pushback due to it infringing civil liberties. No party wants ID cards, or more KYC regulations, or police raids, or more intrusive HMRC, or local government keeping track of home occupation. Which are the sort of things you would have to do at a minimum to get a hold on things.RochdalePioneers said:Absobloodylutely. Have I not made this point repeatedly? Kill the black economy and you remove the pull - the ability to disappear and work cash in hand.
I hate it to. But at some point, Nixon has to go to China, and a Tory PM must announce a Belgian-style registration system.
Now Id cards would make those checks slightly easier but you then create 2 issues - the need for an id card in the first place and a second act to make carrying it a legal requirement0 -
If you were still in the RN would you follow such an order?Dura_Ace said:
RN wouldn't. Give them the order and they'll do it. The Australian and Greek navies did.Casino_Royale said:
Border Force staff would refuse to do the tow backs.Dura_Ace said:
I don't think there is any amount of money that would make that politically acceptable to France - which is not a backwards shithole like Rwanda that can be bought off.Casino_Royale said:
That's the deal that needs to be struck.MaxPB said:The solution is what the Greeks do, tow them back to French water. Fuck the international sensibilities, do it enough and they give up just as the Turkey to Greece route is now non functional for people trafficking. If the charity taxi boats don't like it they can lump it. Pay the French whatever it takes to make this happen. Within weeks it would stop being an issue because people won't spend €2000 just to end up back in France.
So the price would have to be a political prize greather than just large amounts of money. Fucked if I know what that is.
Tow backs that did not breach French territorual waters but without French consent would 100% work as a deterrent but tories lack the resolve to do it.0 -
The effect is the same though. Someone is tracking you everywhere you go. Although it is possible to get Google to forget, how many people using Android phones actually know how to do it?Farooq said:
Not just optional, but also subject to government oversight through privacy legislation (right to be forgotten). State surveillance is a different category for this one reason alone: there is no guarantee of appeal to a higher authority like there is with companies.Flatlander said:
GPS tagging is psychological torture? There's a lot of people Google will have to pay compensation to, then...Casino_Royale said:
I'm sure it'sTaz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
That's funny.Taz said:A new report out today states the GPS tagging of migrants is Psychological torture in another damaging blow to the governments approach to the issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gps-tagging-migrants-psychological-torture-says-report/ar-AA13yQYx?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6eb4f86ddf0149f1a1b483fc2d207fd8
We've been tagging British offenders on bail for years and I don't remember this campaign-a-mob arguing vociferously that that was psychological torture.
[Yes, I know, it is technically optional]
In addition, if the state wanted access to Google's data then it could obtain it.
No doubt someone thought tracking was a lesser evil than locking people up or having them sleep on the floor. Must we reject every practical idea on the grounds that it isn't perfect?0
