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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    #Chloe4Leader as the unity candidate.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,946

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    No. Because the right wing press construct the narrative, and the BBC largely stick to events.

    Indeed, because of the way it works, the BBC end up presenting the narrative itself as part of a he says/she says attempt at unbiased reportage.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    Should I be rejoining the party so that I can resign again?

    If you do put your application and the resignation letter in the one envelope in order to save yourself a stamp.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,946

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,912

    Boris likes the idea of being PM. Of being proven right. Of his party begging him to come back. Yes he is earning dollah overseas. But think how much more dollah he could earn in future if he returns?

    So yes, he wants it. As do some MPs and likely many members. But MPs won't stand for it and the party would fall apart.

    Or they can select Sunak or Mordaunt. MPs won't stand for it an the party would fall apart.

    Perhaps the Brandon Lewis option isn't totally mental. Elect a non-entity who doesn't upset any of the factions.

    Maybe the Tories should support PR (STV in multi-member constituencies) then the factions strength would be determined by the electorate rather than Tory Constituency selection committees.
  • At least the members shouldn't whinge if Johnson returns
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    21m
    I’ve got no idea who the next Tory leader will be. But there’s only one person who people are talking about in parliament at the moment - positively and negatively. And that’s Boris. The other candidates need to get their skates on.

    Have to agree with this, Rishi and Mourdant need to be out there NOW pressing the flesh. If Boris comes top 2 with MPs it really is game over.
    Welcome Mr Gustav
  • DavidL said:

    The Boris bandwagon has started to roll.

    I’m afraid there is only one direction this is going, and it’s not a good one.

    I have very little doubt that if Boris were chosen Hunt would quit and all hell would break loose once again. Hunt is an extraordinary position here and the only sensible thing to do is to build the team around him, including the PM. In short who he wants, he gets.
    If this is true, and Hunt is a patriot, he will make this clear this evening.
    How to confirm it is a remainer stitch up in a couple of simple steps to the loons.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    dixiedean said:

    I know this won't be a popular view here.
    But Boris is the Tories only chance. He has a mandate.

    He told the British people they had to stay at home to save the NHS and then broke his own rules. And then lied about it when he was caught. The moral force of his electoral mandate is effectively invalidated by that level of hypocrisy.

    And the British really hate hypocrisy.
    Thing is, it feels like an aeon ago that Boris departed with everything that has happened...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,300

    At least the members shouldn't whinge if Johnson returns

    The rest of us can though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605
    The best thing for the country and the Tory party is that Boris stands and loses badly.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    Oh god... all the people I know are loons on twitter are pushing strongly for Boris to come back.

    Well of course they are.

    Personally I'd have the lettuce installed as caretaker PM, followed by an election.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    dixiedean said:

    I know this won't be a popular view here.
    But Boris is the Tories only chance. He has a mandate.

    He told the British people they had to stay at home to save the NHS and then broke his own rules. And then lied about it when he was caught. The moral force of his electoral mandate is effectively invalidated by that level of hypocrisy.

    And the British really hate hypocrisy.
    Thing is, it feels like an aeon ago that Boris departed with everything that has happened...
    Not if you read the pinned tweet at the top of Dan Hodges Twitter
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,951
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 53% (+4)
    CON: 22% (-3)
    LDEM: 11% (-)
    GRN: 5% (-1)

    via @techneUK, 19 - 20 Oct
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/10/britainpredicts
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,047
    edited October 2022
    Punters are not seeing the wood for the trees here imo. About Boris Johnson, I mean.

    The guy was pulled by his ankles out of Number 10 a few weeks ago, exposed as corrupt and a liar and utterly unfit to be PM.

    Now 6/1 to come back courtesy of the same people who got rid of him? C'mon! Lay of the century.

    I have anyway and I'm really not worried. The country is in a bad way, yes, but we're not yet a banana republic.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited October 2022
    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    I'll say it again. Whoever it is needs to be able to unite the MPs. Unless they want an immediate general election.
  • Lest we forget:

    Reminder of what the voters think of Boris Johnson, when asked to describe him in a word - from JLPartnersPolls in April.




    And yes, they still think it.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1583096075153391617?s=20&t=fEQlzzRe1O2DanTYbTTPSw

    His pitch would be - I got all the big calls right and little things like that don't matter when the alternatives are chaos as we saw from Truss.

    It is persuasive enough to low information voters to create a Tory floor of 200 odd MPs (odd in all senses). That is a better floor than any of the others offer.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 53% (+4)
    CON: 22% (-3)
    LDEM: 11% (-)
    GRN: 5% (-1)

    via @techneUK, 19 - 20 Oct
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/10/britainpredicts

    Remarkable that the Tory vote is holding up so well.

    One can only think that if they were pledging to "murder your parents and eat your children" they would still be able to save some deposits.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    Sandpit said:

    So, King Charles obviously wants to beat his mother’s record of 15 PMs, but only has about 25 years to do it…

    He might make it in 15 months if this carries on…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    DavidL said:

    The Boris bandwagon has started to roll.

    I’m afraid there is only one direction this is going, and it’s not a good one.

    I have very little doubt that if Boris were chosen Hunt would quit and all hell would break loose once again. Hunt is an extraordinary position here and the only sensible thing to do is to build the team around him, including the PM. In short who he wants, he gets.
    If this is true, and Hunt is a patriot, he will make this clear this evening.
    How to confirm it is a remainer stitch up in a couple of simple steps to the loons.
    Why do you say that? Hunt will choose Sunak who was a definite leaver. Gove will almost certainly return to the cabinet in a senior roll too as will the Saj.
  • I'll say it again. Whoever it is needs to be able to unite the MPs. Unless they want an immediate general election.

    Well that rules out pretty much everyone in the whole world, let alone seniorish current Tory MPs.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    I'll say it again. Whoever it is needs to be able to unite the MPs. Unless they want an immediate general election.

    Does such an individual exist? Moreover, do the MPs really want to be united?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,266
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,481

    Lest we forget:

    Reminder of what the voters think of Boris Johnson, when asked to describe him in a word - from JLPartnersPolls in April.




    And yes, they still think it.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1583096075153391617?s=20&t=fEQlzzRe1O2DanTYbTTPSw

    His pitch would be - I got all the big calls right and little things like that don't matter when the alternatives are chaos as we saw from Truss.

    It is persuasive enough to low information voters to create a Tory floor of 200 odd MPs (odd in all senses). That is a better floor than any of the others offer.
    Yes, when it comes down to it, he probably has both a higher floor and a higher ceiling electorally.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,983

    Sandpit said:

    So, King Charles obviously wants to beat his mother’s record of 15 PMs, but only has about 25 years to do it…

    He might make it in 15 months if this carries on…
    Lunchtime tomorrow ?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The Boris bandwagon has started to roll.

    I’m afraid there is only one direction this is going, and it’s not a good one.

    I have very little doubt that if Boris were chosen Hunt would quit and all hell would break loose once again. Hunt is an extraordinary position here and the only sensible thing to do is to build the team around him, including the PM. In short who he wants, he gets.
    If this is true, and Hunt is a patriot, he will make this clear this evening.
    How to confirm it is a remainer stitch up in a couple of simple steps to the loons.
    Why do you say that? Hunt will choose Sunak who was a definite leaver. Gove will almost certainly return to the cabinet in a senior roll too as will the Saj.
    Sunak is a remainer to the loons. Truss a leaver. It is about beliefs in fantasy more than actual Brexit votes.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Didn’t Johnson miss that “three line whip” yesterday? Perhaps Truss could conveniently withdraw the whip as her last service…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Lest we forget:

    Reminder of what the voters think of Boris Johnson, when asked to describe him in a word - from JLPartnersPolls in April.




    And yes, they still think it.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1583096075153391617?s=20&t=fEQlzzRe1O2DanTYbTTPSw

    His pitch would be - I got all the big calls right and little things like that don't matter when the alternatives are chaos as we saw from Truss.

    It is persuasive enough to low information voters to create a Tory floor of 200 odd MPs (odd in all senses). That is a better floor than any of the others offer.
    Sadly, though that is a ridiculous idea, I fear enough Tory MPs would agree. There may not even be a contest.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,589
    kinabalu said:

    Punters are not seeing the wood for the trees here imo. About Boris Johnson, I mean.

    The guy was pulled by his ankles out of Number 10 a few weeks ago, exposed as corrupt and a liar and utterly unfit to be PM.

    Now 6/1 to come back courtesy of the same people who got rid of him? C'mon! Lay of the century.

    I have anyway and I'm really not worried. The country is in a bad way, yes, but we're not yet a banana republic.

    Brave words.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The Boris bandwagon has started to roll.

    I’m afraid there is only one direction this is going, and it’s not a good one.

    I have very little doubt that if Boris were chosen Hunt would quit and all hell would break loose once again. Hunt is an extraordinary position here and the only sensible thing to do is to build the team around him, including the PM. In short who he wants, he gets.
    If this is true, and Hunt is a patriot, he will make this clear this evening.
    How to confirm it is a remainer stitch up in a couple of simple steps to the loons.
    Why do you say that? Hunt will choose Sunak who was a definite leaver. Gove will almost certainly return to the cabinet in a senior roll too as will the Saj.
    Sunak was called a remainer traitor, here and in other places. The truth won't matter.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Lidl:

    Lettuce at 58p – a good buy

    Liz Truss at Number 10 – a goodbye


    https://twitter.com/LidlGB/status/1583098564074672128
  • RunDeepRunDeep Posts: 77
    Mordaunt and Wallace (and Braverman and Tugendhat and Badenoch), in the words of Charles Walker MP last night, are the

    "talentless people putting their tick in the right box not because it is in the national interest but because it's in their own personal interest to achieve Ministerial position".

    See 0.44 seconds in here - https://twitter.com/danjohnsonnews/status/1582808074875973633?s=61&t=a3QilkvMtWhQmetO_zjaVQ.

    Wallace might perhaps be excused given the war in Ukraine but I see no reason why Mordaunt should be. All those in Cabinet willing to suck up to Truss, despite knowing she was not fit for purpose, have shown the most appalling judgment and negligence. None of them should stand or be chosen.

    By default, really, it should be down to Sunak and Hunt. And certainly not Boris who promoted all these weak nobodies and, in particular, Truss.

    And the members should be told to get stuffed. Britain is not some sort of rotten Borough, a plaything for a few elderly men.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,300
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 53% (+4)
    CON: 22% (-3)
    LDEM: 11% (-)
    GRN: 5% (-1)

    via @techneUK, 19 - 20 Oct
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/10/britainpredicts

    I think when Johnson returns next week we can reverse those Lab and Con figures.

    Your dream of ever voting Conservative again looks like a decade away to me.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 929
    I am astonished at the naivety and short memories of some Conservative MP's. Johnspn for PM!!!
    Any Lib Dem will tell you the reason why they won the Chesham, North Shropshire and Tiverton by elections was the extreeme hostility the voters had to one man, yes Boris Johnson.
    It is time for Tory MP's to look beyond their membership, they need to take into account the wider electorate who despised him for what he did.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
    They actually buy more Guardians than Mails, though the former has been knocked off its top spot by the Times:

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/which-newspapers-does-the-bbc-buy/
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807

    I'll say it again. Whoever it is needs to be able to unite the MPs. Unless they want an immediate general election.

    Fat chance that happens if BoZo is running. He’ll poison the well.

    If he runs and loses, his coterie will sulk, probably to the extent that a GE will be necessary early 2023.

    If he runs and wins, he’ll divide the Party enough that he will likely have to have a GE in the same timescale. He is probably hoping he’ll manage to pull a 2019 again.

    But part of me wonders if he wants to run just to lose, and when the new PM is inevitably brought down and suffers a shellacking at a GE he can claim HE would have achieved a different result and build back his brand in the Tory Party and return as LOTO at some point.

    It is bad that I hope that final paragraph is the true state of things because the idea of him become PM again is causing me serious anger.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    DavidL said:

    The Boris bandwagon has started to roll.

    I’m afraid there is only one direction this is going, and it’s not a good one.

    I have very little doubt that if Boris were chosen Hunt would quit and all hell would break loose once again. Hunt is an extraordinary position here and the only sensible thing to do is to build the team around him, including the PM. In short who he wants, he gets.
    If this is true, and Hunt is a patriot, he will make this clear this evening.
    I would be amazed if he is not making it clear already without going public on it. The party seems to want the fantasy of a contest but the reality is that we have degenerated to Ankh-Morpork:

    "Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Chancellor was the Man; he had the Vote."
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 53% (+4)
    CON: 22% (-3)
    LDEM: 11% (-)
    GRN: 5% (-1)

    via @techneUK, 19 - 20 Oct
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/10/britainpredicts

    I think when Johnson returns next week we can reverse those Lab and Con figures.

    Your dream of ever voting Conservative again looks like a decade away to me.
    Why would the figures be reversed?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    One factor in all this will be hypothetical polling vs. Starmer in the weekend press. If Boris does well in it…
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,650

    kinabalu said:

    Punters are not seeing the wood for the trees here imo. About Boris Johnson, I mean.

    The guy was pulled by his ankles out of Number 10 a few weeks ago, exposed as corrupt and a liar and utterly unfit to be PM.

    Now 6/1 to come back courtesy of the same people who got rid of him? C'mon! Lay of the century.

    I have anyway and I'm really not worried. The country is in a bad way, yes, but we're not yet a banana republic.

    Brave words.
    Yep, I think we're now aping Italy's Berlusconi era. Seems to be a thing when the demographics become distorted towards the aged.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,946
    .

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
    Ah, so your problem is with the people.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 53% (+4)
    CON: 22% (-3)
    LDEM: 11% (-)
    GRN: 5% (-1)

    via @techneUK, 19 - 20 Oct
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/10/britainpredicts

    I think when Johnson returns next week we can reverse those Lab and Con figures.

    Your dream of ever voting Conservative again looks like a decade away to me.
    The really interesting bit will be if Johnson's 8 MP's get elevated to the Lords and he then has 8 by-elections and (probably) 8 defeats
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    By the way, shame about Krishnan G on Baker. Why should journalists be punished for being fair and accurate?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    My MP, a Sunak backer (and former Boris loyalist), has apparently backed Mordaunt and Sunak as Truss's successor, with whoever is number two getting a Great Office. But he may have said it before Boris Redux was clear.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    Sunak and Gove were both leavers. If Mordaunt was Foreign Secretary that would hardly be a remainer coup.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,300
    RunDeep said:

    Mordaunt and Wallace (and Braverman and Tugendhat and Badenoch), in the words of Charles Walker MP last night, are the

    "talentless people putting their tick in the right box not because it is in the national interest but because it's in their own personal interest to achieve Ministerial position".

    See 0.44 seconds in here - https://twitter.com/danjohnsonnews/status/1582808074875973633?s=61&t=a3QilkvMtWhQmetO_zjaVQ.

    Wallace might perhaps be excused given the war in Ukraine but I see no reason why Mordaunt should be. All those in Cabinet willing to suck up to Truss, despite knowing she was not fit for purpose, have shown the most appalling judgment and negligence. None of them should stand or be chosen.

    By default, really, it should be down to Sunak and Hunt. And certainly not Boris who promoted all these weak nobodies and, in particular, Truss.

    And the members should be told to get stuffed. Britain is not some sort of rotten Borough, a plaything for a few elderly men.

    No, Britain is the plaything for one elderly man, Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson. Gorgeous!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,481
    Even Dmitry Medvedev has found some amusement from Truss's downfall.

    @MedvedevRussiaE
    Bye, bye @trussliz, congrats to lettuce


    https://twitter.com/MedvedevRussiaE/status/1583100500030808064
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    You reckon?

    I know people who get their news from TikTok. Which does not play in the Tories favour.
    That demographic barely vote.
    True. But the odds of TikTok getting that demographic to be energised and get out to vote feels far more likely to me than claims that Twitter might in the past.
    What's needed is a TikTok challenge: 'vote in the booth' :wink:

    Yes, yes, filming it is probably illegal (depends if you show the actual ballot cast?) and stupid, but we're talking TikTok challenges here
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    I think Johnson would actually benefit from being kept off the ballot by MPs. So whichever stooge is chosen will go down to a historic defeat at the next election. Johnson can claim he would have won if he hadn't been thwarted by scheming MPs and come back to dominate the Tory Party after the election on a betrayal narrative

    Whereas if he has to fight the election he would probably lose to Starmer, who he presents as a mediocrity and his mantle of election invincibility would disappear
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,886
    edited October 2022

    Lidl:

    Lettuce at 58p – a good buy

    Liz Truss at Number 10 – a goodbye


    https://twitter.com/LidlGB/status/1583098564074672128

    Is the lettuce faction of the Tory party going to put up a candidate for the leadership ?

    My bet is on the heart of romaine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,589
    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    ·
    45m
    As the person to lead them into the election Tory MPs can choose either:

    1. Another risky unknown (Penny, Ben)

    2. A toxic known (Boris)

    3. The least toxic known (Rishi)

    With such a narrow path to any remote semblance of election victory, not sure it’s that difficult on paper.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,471
    Jonathan said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    The Daily Mail killed Penny Moudaunts campaign last time. They might do it again.
    Frostie was pushing that. Perhaps he is a little contrite at what he caused?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677
    RunDeep said:

    Britain is not some sort of rotten Borough, a plaything for a few elderly men.

    I'll admit, that's a side to the life of @rottenborough that I did not know about! :blush:
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    Selebian said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    You reckon?

    I know people who get their news from TikTok. Which does not play in the Tories favour.
    That demographic barely vote.
    True. But the odds of TikTok getting that demographic to be energised and get out to vote feels far more likely to me than claims that Twitter might in the past.
    What's needed is a TikTok challenge: 'vote in the booth' :wink:

    Yes, yes, filming it is probably illegal (depends if you show the actual ballot cast?) and stupid, but we're talking TikTok challenges here
    And the next challenge (I don’t put this beyond them) from the Lynton Crosby mob would be “be outrageous, mock the system, watch the world burn and vote Tory”.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    Sunak shortening and Boris drifting on Betfair.

    I reckon Sunak has every chance of winning with the members.

    I've posted this before but remember Davey losing to Swinson then beating Moran the next year.

    LD members were far closer to Moran ideologically but they knew they had to play it safe so chose Davey.

    The same will apply this time but in spades - we are talking about choosing a PM after a calamitous period.

    Members will know they have to play it safe and that will mean Sunak.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,047

    kinabalu said:

    Punters are not seeing the wood for the trees here imo. About Boris Johnson, I mean.

    The guy was pulled by his ankles out of Number 10 a few weeks ago, exposed as corrupt and a liar and utterly unfit to be PM.

    Now 6/1 to come back courtesy of the same people who got rid of him? C'mon! Lay of the century.

    I have anyway and I'm really not worried. The country is in a bad way, yes, but we're not yet a banana republic.

    Brave words.
    Not just words, tbf, my wodge is down!

    When people say I need a hobby I always tell them I have one ... laying Not Happening Events at single digits. :smile:
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    #Chloe4Leader as the unity candidate.

    Who?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,266
    Driver said:

    .

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
    Ah, so your problem is with the people.
    My problem is with the people who say that the BBC has a left-wing bias, when its agenda is set by the right-wing Press.

    I don't have a problem with the public at large disagreeing with me. I'd rather they didn't, but I generally think it's my problem if my arguments haven't been persuasive enough to convince them.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Sandpit said:

    Whoa, wasn’t expecting that news today.

    God only knows who can be a unifying candidate for this rabble of Tory MPs. Anyone but Sunak for me.


    Step forward HYFUD. Your moment has come!
  • Sunak and Gove were both leavers. If Mordaunt was Foreign Secretary that would hardly be a remainer coup.

    The EU didnt ban bendy bananas either. Facts don't matter with some people.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    The problem is that it’s Winchester, and the two oldies don’t look terribly representative.

    (In that they appear to be able to string two sentences together).
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    biggles said:

    One factor in all this will be hypothetical polling vs. Starmer in the weekend press. If Boris does well in it…

    The Tories should absolutely bring Boris Johnson back.

    Show their true colours.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837

    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
    Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.

    Smartest guy in the room, eh?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,471

    Sandpit said:

    Whoa, wasn’t expecting that news today.

    God only knows who can be a unifying candidate for this rabble of Tory MPs. Anyone but Sunak for me.


    Step forward HYFUD. Your moment has come!
    The tanks* are already moving up the A1.

    *We might only have the one tank that works.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,589

    #Chloe4Leader as the unity candidate.

    Who?
    The only thing I can recall her saying in years on TV is "I'm a team player".

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    If Boris wins it will rip the Tories apart. They need a unity candidate and he's marmite.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,719

    Driver said:

    .

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
    Ah, so your problem is with the people.
    My problem is with the people who say that the BBC has a left-wing bias, when its agenda is set by the right-wing Press.

    I don't have a problem with the public at large disagreeing with me. I'd rather they didn't, but I generally think it's my problem if my arguments haven't been persuasive enough to convince them.

    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
    The press take the line they do because they know their readerships. There is a constituency of newspaper buyers who are quite happy with the Mail's line.
    I'm quite sure there are left wing people. Almost all the people I know are left wing. But they don't buy newspapers. They'll read the Guardian online, but they won't pay for news.
    That the press (by circulation) is right wing simply reflects the polotical preferences of newspaper buyers/subscribers. But newspaper buyers aren't necessarily politically representative of the nation as a whole.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605

    Jonathan said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    The Daily Mail killed Penny Moudaunts campaign last time. They might do it again.
    Frostie was pushing that. Perhaps he is a little contrite at what he caused?
    You must be joking. They don’t know the meaning of the word.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Even Dmitry Medvedev has found some amusement from Truss's downfall.

    @MedvedevRussiaE
    Bye, bye @trussliz, congrats to lettuce


    https://twitter.com/MedvedevRussiaE/status/1583100500030808064

    I mean at Liz gets to leave through the door, he'll be out via the third floor window sooner or later.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited October 2022
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
    Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.

    Smartest guy in the room, eh?
    Press bias exists.
    Everyone is affected by it.
    The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.

    It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited October 2022
    What a lot of tosh about Johnson returning. Hunt became CoE and Truss was forced out because Tory MPs found their survival instinct again.

    Sunak is the only realistic candidate for PM and, whether they like him or not, most of them now realise that.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Pulpstar said:

    Boris isn't serious.

    He'd have to give back all those fees for his upcoming speaking engagements.

    Boris isn't serious.

    He'd have to give back all those fees for his upcoming speaking engagements.

    He'll be able to double his fee if he comes back. You have to admit it would be quite the tale.
    It would only be "quite the tale" because few believed that the Tories could be quite that stupid.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Farooq said:

    Hahahahaha, all you stupid fucks who voted Conservative in 2019

    Hahahahahaha you brainless wazzocks who put Corbyn up against him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Might not be enough, but necessary.

    Good source reckons 1922 going to impose a nominations threshold of *100 MPs*

    That will narrow the field very, very quickly


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1583123851709333504?cxt=HHwWgICqiaywsfgrAAAA
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,951
    Labour leads by 36%.

    Joint-largest lead for ANY party with ANY polling company since Oct. 1997.

    Westminster VI (19 Oct.):

    Labour 55% (-1)
    Conservative 19% (-1)
    Lib Dems 12% (+1)
    Green 4% (-1)
    SNP 4% (–)
    Reform 4% (+2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16 Oct.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-53 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1583125895040090113/photo/1
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,946

    Driver said:

    .

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Someone noted - and perhaps it’s not an original thought, but it impressed me - that while Labour has the “unions”, the Tories have the right wing press.

    The Mail et al - controlled largely by non-doms and foreign money - are an absolute cancer on Britain.

    The influence of the "right wing press" is massively overstated.

    The single most important news medium is the BBC News app push notification.
    The thing is the BBC use the Press as their external calibration. The BBC are desperate for an external calibration so that they can avoid any accusation of bias. So the right-wing press end up setting the agenda that the BBC follow.
    No mention of the left wing press? Or do you just see them as unbiased?
    The BBC can read the circulation figures as well as you and I. They're obviously going to pay more attention to the Mail than to the Guardian.
    Ah, so your problem is with the people.
    My problem is with the people who say that the BBC has a left-wing bias, when its agenda is set by the right-wing Press.

    I don't have a problem with the public at large disagreeing with me. I'd rather they didn't, but I generally think it's my problem if my arguments haven't been persuasive enough to convince them.
    Its agenda isn't set by the right-wing press and more than it is set by the Guardian.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    DougSeal said:

    Why you’re not piling in on Johnson as next PM I’ve no idea. It’s an absolute certainty. I’d tell my granny to put her savings on it.

    I don't think anyone can say that until we have seen the rules
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
    Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.

    Smartest guy in the room, eh?
    smarter than you for starters
    Zing
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,481

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.

    They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.

    "Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.

    It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
    You are very naive.
    Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.

    Smartest guy in the room, eh?
    Press bias exists.
    Everyone is affected by it.
    The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.

    It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
    If you fund "avowedly independent options" then you will recreate all the same biases because they ultimately stem from people themselves. Would a state funded GB News and a state funded Novara Media be better?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,589
    kle4 said:

    Might not be enough, but necessary.

    Good source reckons 1922 going to impose a nominations threshold of *100 MPs*

    That will narrow the field very, very quickly


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1583123851709333504?cxt=HHwWgICqiaywsfgrAAAA

    Can Johnson pull 100??
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    DavidL said:

    What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.

    And Hague or similar as FS.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,471
    DavidL said:

    What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.

    Mordaunt Foreign Sec?
  • kle4 said:

    Might not be enough, but necessary.

    Good source reckons 1922 going to impose a nominations threshold of *100 MPs*

    That will narrow the field very, very quickly


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1583123851709333504?cxt=HHwWgICqiaywsfgrAAAA

    Can Johnson pull 100??
    If he's struggling to reach 100 I think he's struggling to reach final 2
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    kle4 said:

    Might not be enough, but necessary.

    Good source reckons 1922 going to impose a nominations threshold of *100 MPs*

    That will narrow the field very, very quickly


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1583123851709333504?cxt=HHwWgICqiaywsfgrAAAA

    Can Johnson pull 100??
    Well, the ERG pushed Truss “over”.
    Add a few Red Wallers, and I say yes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,951
    It is worth saying that many Tory MPs tonight are saying they do not believe Boris Johnson will run. They say that if the threshold for nominations is very high, it is unlikely the former PM will risk it. There is no chance of him wanting to risk being defeated.
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1583129150012813312
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    DavidL said:

    What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.

    I think the Saj is crap but otherwise, yes, I agree.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    DavidL said:

    What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.

    Mordaunt Foreign Sec?
    Yes, I could live with that too. We need her in the Commons a fair bit though. She is probably the best performer on her feet there of any of them and its going to be tough.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    Madmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmad.

    Mad.
This discussion has been closed.