I think when Johnson returns next week we can reverse those Lab and Con figures.
Your dream of ever voting Conservative again looks like a decade away to me.
Why would the figures be reversed?
You know I am absolutely certain that Mexicanpete is pulling a fast one with tongue buried deep in cheek but then, every once in a while, I just wonder.... I just don't quite get what his game is.
We desperately need professionalism back in both journalism and politics (well, perhaps we need to get professionalism in journalism; I'm unsure it was ever there in the first place... )
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
What if the next Tory leader is also a dud and implodes. Stranger things have happened. It’s a difficult environment. Anything can happen. 50:50 the next administration falls apart in 6 months if the lights go out.
Jacob Rees-Mogg drove the toppling of Theresa May. Now he's been the unwitting trigger for the demise of both Johnson and Truss. 3 strikes and he's out?
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
An election would be better
Sure, but they won't trigger that, so next best thing - it won't stop a Labour victory to come.
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
If you fund "avowedly independent options" then you will recreate all the same biases because they ultimately stem from people themselves. Would a state funded GB News and a state funded Novara Media be better?
Do you think GB News or Novara Media are “avowedly independent”?
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
I said meaningless.
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
Obviously the best outcome for all is that Rishi and Penny get enough votes each, with nobody else making 100. Then whoever gets the most MPs is PM, the other concedes and we have nothing to take to the members - and a new PM by Tuesday morning.
Anything else will be as laughably disastrous as Truss.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Obviously the best outcome for all is that Rishi and Penny get enough votes each, with nobody else making 100. Then whoever gets the most MPs is PM, the other concedes and we have nothing to take to the members - and a new PM by Tuesday morning.
Anything else will be as laughably disastrous as Truss.
You seem very sanguine about the prospect of Mordaunt as leader.
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
I said meaningless.
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
You are assuming that people’s preferences are exogenous and not themselves shaped by the news discourse.
The news “market” doesn’t work like toothpaste or shampoo.
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
I said meaningless.
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
There are remarkable statistics on the voting habits of newspaper readers - never as homogenous as you expect. As someone who for twenty years read the Guardian as a Tory activist I can attest that it's possible to read a newspaper for other reasons than its editorial line.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Might be worth backing Keir Starmer at 130 for next PM.
If Boris looks likely to win the Party could split and, therefore, Keir would be more likely to command confidence of the House and actually become next PM *before* Boris can take office as PM from KCIII himself.
It is worth saying that many Tory MPs tonight are saying they do not believe Boris Johnson will run. They say that if the threshold for nominations is very high, it is unlikely the former PM will risk it. There is no chance of him wanting to risk being defeated. https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1583129150012813312
I wondered when the “avoid humiliation” argument would surface….
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Elections are not there for the convenience of the Tory party. We need a government and a decent opposition. What the Tories do is perhaps irrelevant, but definitely secondary. Vote for someone else.
It is worth saying that many Tory MPs tonight are saying they do not believe Boris Johnson will run. They say that if the threshold for nominations is very high, it is unlikely the former PM will risk it. There is no chance of him wanting to risk being defeated. https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1583129150012813312
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Jesus Christ. Isn't the completely dysfunctional nature of the Tory party enough reason for keeping it well away from power? Do you not appreciate how close these clueless nutters brought us to catastrophe just a few weeks ago?
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Nice try.
Rules out Cameron, Major, Hague, Howard, May and IDS too - unless you can identify where the chain of history breaks!
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
Mordaunt Foreign Sec?
The Mordaunt who achieved nothing as Trade Minister, who lied during the referendum campaign over Turkey and who, even today, is pushing the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill which will get rid of 2,400 laws in sectors as diverse as employment, consumer law, transport law, environmental law, pension rights etc, with no idea of what will replace them.
Haven't we had our fill of one vacuous over-ambitious, over-promoted nobody with no achievements to her name that we have to have another one?
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Much as i would like to agree with you I think this interpretation is wrong. If the idea was they could not stand in future elections I would have thought they would have used the word 'subsequent'. Consequent seems to me to refer only to the immediate election after resignation.
But for the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Elections are not there for the convenience of the Tory party. We need a government and a decent opposition. What the Tories do is perhaps irrelevant, but definitely secondary. Vote for someone else.
Yes, but you do need to offer the electorate a choice. Otherwise how can there be a decent opposition?
Someone tell Mordaunt and Sunak to flip a coin on who gets to be PM already (an acqaintance was desperately asking when we will have a good female PM, which felt harsh) - together they had 155 1st backers last time, and 242 by the final knockout round.
Yes, some of those will go Boris, but it would be enough.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Makes the choice easier surely?
What if the Tories are still in this mess in January 2025, do we have to give them a bit more time to sort themselves out?
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Elections are not there for the convenience of the Tory party. We need a government and a decent opposition. What the Tories do is perhaps irrelevant, but definitely secondary. Vote for someone else.
Yes, but you do need to offer the electorate a choice. Otherwise how can there be a decent opposition?
Vote LibDem they would do a better job in opposition. Davey is closer to the coalition, which you liked, than the current Tory party. There is lots to choose from. The Tories have no privilege here.
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
Mordaunt Foreign Sec?
The Mordaunt who achieved nothing as Trade Minister, who lied during the referendum campaign over Turkey and who, even today, is pushing the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill which will get rid of 2,400 laws in sectors as diverse as employment, consumer law, transport law, environmental law, pension rights etc, with no idea of what will replace them.
Haven't we had our fill of one vacuous over-ambitious, over-promoted nobody with no achievements to her name that we have to have another one?
Well, she has held Cabinet Office before at least, but at this rate all of them will for a brief period.
We desperately need professionalism back in both journalism and politics (well, perhaps we need to get professionalism in journalism; I'm unsure it was ever there in the first place... )
Seems a bit unfair to punish a journalist for telling the truth. Isn't that their job?
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Much as i would like to agree with you I think this interpretation is wrong. If the idea was they could not stand in future elections I would have thought they would have used the word 'subsequent'. Consequent seems to me to refer only to the immediate election after resignation.
But for the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
No chance, I'm afraid - IIRC this was discussed at the last leadership election.
Boris resigns, consequently he can't stand in the next leadership election (singular).
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
And Hague or similar as FS.
Tugendhat?
Sure. I don’t have any instinctive repulsion to any of @DavidL’s choice, with only slight reservations about Mordaunt’s abiliy to run the Home Office.
Sadly, if it doesn’t repulse me then likely the Tories won’t go for it.
A Labour source told HuffPost UK: "The Tories all droning on about how they need a sensible, serious person to manage the party and deliver stability, then that honking pudding turns up with his travelling circus. Delicious."
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Much as i would like to agree with you I think this interpretation is wrong. If the idea was they could not stand in future elections I would have thought they would have used the word 'subsequent'. Consequent seems to me to refer only to the immediate election after resignation.
But fpor the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
I have no idea how many Johnson supporters there are on the 1922 committee but if a majority want to block him they are free to interpret the word 'consequently' that way.
Schedule 2 para 3. "Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board."
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
I said meaningless.
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
You are assuming that people’s preferences are exogenous and not themselves shaped by the news discourse.
The news “market” doesn’t work like toothpaste or shampoo.
As I said, you are very naive.
Your first statement is nonsensical.
The news discourse is an exogenous event if you want to use the word in that sense.
Peoples' preferences are shaped by everything - life experiences, family, work, commuting, getting mugged, liking fluffy animals, being left-handed.
Generally, people look for confirmations of their opinions. Hence they will gravitate towards a media outlet that reflects their own world view.
The media is biased, you say. Are you subject to that bias or are you able to read a news article critically (I believe one is supposed to be able to do that from age 16 years old).
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Much as i would like to agree with you I think this interpretation is wrong. If the idea was they could not stand in future elections I would have thought they would have used the word 'subsequent'. Consequent seems to me to refer only to the immediate election after resignation.
But for the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
Sadly agree. The wording doesn't work to ban him. The tell is the use of THE consequent election.
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Elections are not there for the convenience of the Tory party. We need a government and a decent opposition. What the Tories do is perhaps irrelevant, but definitely secondary. Vote for someone else.
Yes, but you do need to offer the electorate a choice. Otherwise how can there be a decent opposition?
Vote LibDem they would do a better job in opposition. Davey is closer to the coalition, which you liked, than the current Tory party. There is lots to choose from. The Tories have no privilege here.
The Tories have no privilege, of course. I would say the same if Labour were in a (hopefully temporary) shambles.
Now, as it happens, I don't think the Conservative Party is going to be able to recover from this mess to the point where they are electable again, but I do think that having an election at the height of the shambles would be inappropriate.
Of course it's academic anyway, because there is zero chance of them calling an election anytime soon.
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER 1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members. 2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent': adjective 1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Much as i would like to agree with you I think this interpretation is wrong. If the idea was they could not stand in future elections I would have thought they would have used the word 'subsequent'. Consequent seems to me to refer only to the immediate election after resignation.
But fpor the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
I have no idea how many Johnson supporters there are on the 1922 committee but if a majority want to block him they are free to interpret the word 'consequently' that way.
Schedule 2 para 3. "Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board."
It's not for them to interpret the party constitution, though.
Would be likely counterproductive to try such shenanigans.
A Labour source told HuffPost UK: "The Tories all droning on about how they need a sensible, serious person to manage the party and deliver stability, then that honking pudding turns up with his travelling circus. Delicious."
I don't really understand the calls for an immediate election (well, I do, but they are nonsensical): even if Tory turkeys wanted to vote for Xmas, how could the electorate be presented with a choice? One of the two main (or perhaps 'formerly main') parties is in absolutely no position to put together a manifesto programme.
Elections are not there for the convenience of the Tory party. We need a government and a decent opposition. What the Tories do is perhaps irrelevant, but definitely secondary. Vote for someone else.
Yes, but you do need to offer the electorate a choice. Otherwise how can there be a decent opposition?
Vote LibDem they would do a better job in opposition. Davey is closer to the coalition, which you liked, than the current Tory party. There is lots to choose from. The Tories have no privilege here.
The Tories have no privilege, of course. I would say the same if Labour were in a (hopefully temporary) shambles.
Now, as it happens, I don't think the Conservative Party is going to be able to recover from this mess to the point where they are electable again, but I do think that having an election at the height of the shambles would be inappropriate.
Of course it's academic anyway, because there is zero chance of them calling an election anytime soon.
My logic is simpler. Things are very bad and the country would be better off with Starmer in number 10 now. So there should be an election asap.
Nom threshold will be 100 - so three candidates max
Concludes Fri 28 Nov Noms close 2pm Monday MPs narrow down to two candidates - all MP stages on the Monday (?) Then member stages - quick binding online vote if there are two candidates
The left wing press exists and are not impotent, but they generally lack the reach, the puissance, and the money of the right wing press.
They are also, perhaps structurally so, less power-focused and more interested in insular issues.
"Left wing" and "right wing" press as terms are meaningless.
It is the press that people choose to consume. Nothing preventing them buying Socialist Worker or the BNP Daily if they so wish.
You are very naive.
Oh god another one who is sure they are not affected by press bias but thinks that everyone else is.
Smartest guy in the room, eh?
Press bias exists. Everyone is affected by it. The best one can is try to eliminate inappropriate funding (foreign, criminal) of news, and fund avowedly independent options.
It is you who seem to think that you are unaffected by press bias, I’m afraid, since you claim in your first sentence that it doesn’t exist or is “meaningless”
I said meaningless.
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
There are remarkable statistics on the voting habits of newspaper readers - never as homogenous as you expect. As someone who for twenty years read the Guardian as a Tory activist I can attest that it's possible to read a newspaper for other reasons than its editorial line.
Absolutely. I used to enjoy reading the Guardian. I loved a good Polly article and have been known to comment on them previously.
But there is also a substantial constituency which does consume the media which reflects and reinforces their own view. Indeed I stopped reading the Graun because it had become more confirmatory. An article saying Tories are child eaters and 500 comments saying yes Tories are child eaters.
On CiF below the line, for example, I would say that left:right is 20:1 only the odd contrarian post.
Is it fair to say that Johnson is being backed by people who would have no chance of promotion under the others?
As I've said before there is a chance we get a decent government out of this. This coming from someone who has never voted Tory in my life. No guarantees though. Will the diehards accept it?
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
Nom threshold will be 100 - so three candidates max
Concludes Fri 28 Nov Noms close 2pm Monday MPs narrow down to two candidates Then member stages - quick binding online vote if there are two candidates
What? I thought this was supposed to be over in a week.
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
I really think some of these people should be in institutional care, not (supposedly) running the country.
If we had an election, the projections say the Tories would be down to well down into double figures of MPs.
It is a frightening thought that they are still in a position (potentially) to inflict yet another iteration of lunatic incompetence on real people trying to lead their lives.
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
I would take that. Hunt has started on a certain course, they may as well just keep the ship afloat and make some progress going along it. Because the other ideas the tories came up with in the last leadership campaign failed, and they don't have any other ideas. So why not just do something that vaguely works? They don't have to try that hard to win the next election because Labour are going to struggle to come up with anything else. Starmers thing is just to present an image of stability against chaos. But what if the tories are stable? Starmer then just looks like a nonentity with no ideas, and many of the MP's in the party are out of touch activist dating back to the Corbyn era. The tories don't need to do that much to win another majority.
Nom threshold will be 100 - so three candidates max
Concludes Fri 28 Nov Noms close 2pm Monday MPs narrow down to two candidates Then member stages - quick binding online vote if there are two candidates
What? I thought this was supposed to be over in a week.
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
I would take that. Hunt has started on a certain course, they may as well just keep the ship afloat and make some progress going along it. Because the other ideas the tories came up with in the last leadership campaign failed, and they don't have any other ideas. So why not just do something that vaguely works? They don't have to try that hard to win the next election because Labour are going to struggle to come up with anything else. Starmers thing is just to present an image of stability against chaos. But what if the tories are stable? Starmer then just looks like a nonentity with no ideas, and many of the MP's in the party are out of touch activist dating back to the Corbyn era. The tories don't need to do that much to win another majority.
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
So…like Berlusconi then? FFS.
In every way except for his politics, his support for Russia, and his criminality. So nothing alike.
You might hate Boris, but suggesting he’s criminal or treacherous…..?
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
So…like Berlusconi then? FFS.
In every way except for his politics, his support for Russia, and his criminality. So nothing alike.
You might hate Boris, but suggesting he’s criminal or treacherous…..?
He’s criminal on some definitions at least. Treacherous? I really couldn’t say with 100% certainty.
Jacob Rees-Mogg drove the toppling of Theresa May. Now he's been the unwitting trigger for the demise of both Johnson and Truss. 3 strikes and he's out?
I don't see how they can blame him for Johnson or Truss. Obviously it showed their bad judgement appointing such a fool but compared to everything else that was insignificant
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
Boris Johnson is not Trump or Berlusconi; in many ways he is not as bad, in other ways considerably worse. The only people who might have Boris Derangement Syndrome are those who are so terminally braindead that they think it is appropriate to bring back a man to the highest office in the land who has been seen to behave in a dishonest and incompetent manner and is currently still under investigation for various misdemeanours that have undermined confidence in our democratic system.
Those who have Boris Derangement Syndrome continue to bash one out at his image, simply because he won a big majority.
Jacob Rees-Mogg drove the toppling of Theresa May. Now he's been the unwitting trigger for the demise of both Johnson and Truss. 3 strikes and he's out?
I don't see how they can blame him for Johnson or Truss. Obviously it showed their bad judgement appointing such a fool but compared to everything else that was insignificant
Thats true. As I never tire of noting, Boris took 2 years to make JRM a proper Cabinet Member, and even then didnt trust him with a department. He was a patsy but not central to things.
What I want is Rishi as PM, Hunt Chancellor, Mordaunt HS, Gove levelling up Secy and all round coordinator, Wallace as Defence, the Saj back at health, Badenoch possibly Chief Secretary to Treasury etc. A government that makes the most use of the pool of talent available such as it is and with enough experience not to fall over its own feet on a daily basis.
I would take that. Hunt has started on a certain course, they may as well just keep the ship afloat and make some progress going along it. Because the other ideas the tories came up with in the last leadership campaign failed, and they don't have any other ideas. So why not just do something that vaguely works? They don't have to try that hard to win the next election because Labour are going to struggle to come up with anything else. Starmers thing is just to present an image of stability against chaos. But what if the tories are stable? Starmer then just looks like a nonentity with no ideas, and many of the MP's in the party are out of touch activist dating back to the Corbyn era. The tories don't need to do that much to win another majority.
They wouldn't have to try that hard...were it not for demolishing their reputation. They wont get credit now even if they do very well.
Johnson really is the unflushable turd of British politics.
Give him ten years and he will be exchanging birthday cards with his “bessie mate” V Putin.
People mock the concept of Boris Derangement Syndrome, but what other explanation can there be for a comment like that?
I was thinking the same. People just assume Boris is exactly like whichever of Trump or Berlusconi they are in the mood for comparing him to today. That’s a large part of why they keep underestimating him.
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
I agree with first part, people overdo the comparisons. He's much better than them.
But his attitude and character are at least similar
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63331322
We desperately need professionalism back in both journalism and politics (well, perhaps we need to get professionalism in journalism; I'm unsure it was ever there in the first place...
From the Conservative Party Constitution Schedule 2 page 18.
https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative Party Constitution as amended January 2021.pdf
"RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER
1 The Leader shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members.
2 A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election."
Definition of 'consequent':
adjective
1. following as a result or effect.
This leadership election follows as a clear effect of Johnson's resignation.
You're welcome.
Jacob Rees-Mogg drove the toppling of Theresa May.
Now he's been the unwitting trigger for the demise of both Johnson and Truss.
3 strikes and he's out?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1583083400508104705
I was referring to public service broadcasting,
You have it round the wrong way. It is not bias it is catering to their audience. If you are of a left wing disposition you probably won't buy the Daily Mail.
Likewise, if you are the Daily Mail and find that there is a ready market for right wing editorials then you will continue to produce right wing editorials.
It is not bias.
The Socialist Worker can be bought by anyone but its circulation is tiny. The Daily Mail is read by millions, as is The Mirror. Which suggests that each caters to its own market.
Anything else will be as laughably disastrous as Truss.
Er….
Yes.
The news “market” doesn’t work like toothpaste or shampoo.
As I said, you are very naive.
https://order-order.com/2022/10/20/whos-backing-who-the-spreadsheet-returns/
Might be worth backing Keir Starmer at 130 for next PM.
If Boris looks likely to win the Party could split and, therefore, Keir would be more likely to command confidence of the House and actually become next PM *before* Boris can take office as PM from KCIII himself.
Unlikely? Yes. But not 130/1 unlikely.
God save us from Tory stupidity!
Haven't we had our fill of one vacuous over-ambitious, over-promoted nobody with no achievements to her name that we have to have another one?
But for the sake of the country I hope you are right in your interpretation.
Yes, some of those will go Boris, but it would be enough.
What if the Tories are still in this mess in January 2025, do we have to give them a bit more time to sort themselves out?
Boris resigns, consequently he can't stand in the next leadership election (singular).
I don’t have any instinctive repulsion to any of @DavidL’s choice, with only slight reservations about Mordaunt’s abiliy to run the Home Office.
Sadly, if it doesn’t repulse me then likely the Tories won’t go for it.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/could-boris-johnson-become-prime-minister-again_uk_635167ade4b051268c523a76
Schedule 2 para 3.
"Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board."
The news discourse is an exogenous event if you want to use the word in that sense.
Peoples' preferences are shaped by everything - life experiences, family, work, commuting, getting mugged, liking fluffy animals, being left-handed.
Generally, people look for confirmations of their opinions. Hence they will gravitate towards a media outlet that reflects their own world view.
The media is biased, you say. Are you subject to that bias or are you able to read a news article critically (I believe one is supposed to be able to do that from age 16 years old).
But worry not - he hasn't a ghost.
David Mellor
Well, if Micky Fab thinks it's a good idea, maybe it is.
Now, as it happens, I don't think the Conservative Party is going to be able to recover from this mess to the point where they are electable again, but I do think that having an election at the height of the shambles would be inappropriate.
Of course it's academic anyway, because there is zero chance of them calling an election anytime soon.
Wake me when he has 60.
Would be likely counterproductive to try such shenanigans.
Sorry you didn’t get it.
Concludes Fri 28 Nov
Noms close 2pm Monday
MPs narrow down to two candidates - all MP stages on the Monday (?)
Then member stages - quick binding online vote if there are two candidates
But there is also a substantial constituency which does consume the media which reflects and reinforces their own view. Indeed I stopped reading the Graun because it had become more confirmatory. An article saying Tories are child eaters and 500 comments saying yes Tories are child eaters.
On CiF below the line, for example, I would say that left:right is 20:1 only the odd contrarian post.
As I've said before there is a chance we get a decent government out of this. This coming from someone who has never voted Tory in my life. No guarantees though. Will the diehards accept it?
As it happens I reckon he comes back in opposition with a smaller party in his image, and then grows it into power.
FFS.
If we had an election, the projections say the Tories would be down to well down into double figures of MPs.
It is a frightening thought that they are still in a position (potentially) to inflict yet another iteration of lunatic incompetence on real people trying to lead their lives.
- Berry confirms there will be online vote of the Conservative membership that wraps up end of next week https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1583134482793893889/photo/1
The last Friday in November is the 25th
You might hate Boris, but suggesting he’s criminal or treacherous…..?
Only 5 more PMs to Christmas!
Treacherous? I really couldn’t say with 100% certainty.
1. Rish! - 137
2. PM4PM - 105
3. Trussterf*ck - 113
So if (big if) the MP votes stay around the same both will get on the ballot.
Problem I can see is:
1. Whether PM bleeds some support to BoZo
2. Whether BoZo hoovers up the Truss votes and therefore gets on the ballot.
Those who have Boris Derangement Syndrome continue to bash one out at his image, simply because he won a big majority.
Against. Jeremy. Corbyn.
But his attitude and character are at least similar