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Barely a third think they’ll get timely treatment from the NHS – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 15 in General
imageBarely a third think they’ll get timely treatment from the NHS – politicalbetting.com

The YouGov polling for tomorrow’s Sunday Times highlights what I believe will be an increasing challenge for the new government when Truss takes over.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,000
    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333
    The fact that a third do really highlights the deficiency in mental health provision.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    There is no solution to the multiple crises facing the country - the collapsing healthcare system, the ludicrous cost of living, vast numbers of sick, old and disabled people needing expensive care - that doesn't directly involve taxing the absolute shit of wealthy people, property and inheritances. If you want a Scandinavian social safety net, you require Scandinavian levels of taxation. The rest is noise.

    All of this is absolutely impossible for the Conservatives, and Labour can only get away with it if they lie about their tax and spend plans before an election, and then do all of it afterwards, because elderly homeowners - without whose support fuck all can be done in this country - won't wear a prospectus that involves them having to pay for shit rather than young people. So we'll probably carry on as we are, until everything collapses. Which might not be very far away at the rate things are going.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    edited August 27
    DavidL said:

    The fact that a third do really highlights the deficiency in mental health provision.

    Indeed. One-third of the population standing in need of psychiatric help is distinctly alarming.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    FPT:

    This announcement is old news, which I missed until a piece on Mail online today about Dale Vince's ideas for the energy cap:

    "Dr Dale Vince OBE – the green industrialist, founder of Ecotricity, inventor of the Sky Diamond, and Chairman of Forest Green Rovers, has today announced he’s looking to find a new owner for Ecotricity – the world’s first green energy company, as he considers a move in a very different direction – into the world of politics.

    In a message to the company’s staff, later shared on social media, Dale said the move was to “clear the decks for some new frontiers” including the next general election , which he described as the “most important of our lives”. "

    https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/dale-vince-to-leave-ecotricity

    I seem to recall there was some discussion a few weeks back about some kind of climate change party standing at next GE. Is this what he is hinting at?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,066
    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley
    @lottelydia
    In Blair's resignation speech, given in his constituency in May 2007, one almost throwaway line was 'Ask when you last had to wait a year or more on a hospital waiting list, or heard of pensioners freezing to death in the winter unable to heat their homes.'

    https://twitter.com/lottelydia/status/1563502197782253569
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,846
    To what extent are public expectations of the NHS conditioned by never-ending tales of woe written by journalists with an agenda? My immediate family has received excellent, timely treatment from the NHS for at least four serious conditions (cancer, atrial fibrillation, osteoarthritis and premature birth) in the past two years, pandemic notwithstanding. No sign of the media at our door hungry for a vox-pop.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,132
    We didn’t even bother waiting when our youngest needed a minor operation recently. Waiting list was enormous - no appointments available at all at any of the centres we were referred to for months on end & that was just for the first diagnostic examination, never mind waiting for actual treatment.

    Was seen & treated privately that same week. Would have been a minimum six months wait, probably much more after waiting three+ months for the initial consultation to kick in, if it ever did. (Obviously they have a bias, but our provider told us NHS patients he had referred recently were waiting six months for urgently necessary treatment, never mind relatively minor things that could be left for longer.)

    On the flip side, older relatives who have had a suspected stroke recently have received prompt & excellent care. It’s not all doom & gloom, but for a lot of people if they cannot afford private treatment then they’re just going to have to wait & hope their problem doesn’t get any worse in the meantime (which it probably will of course) .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Getting rid of GPs and moving to walk in centres, usually larger ones, would be a definite step in the right direction and save a packet.

    It's as likely to happen as Amanda Spielman doing something that would benefit children, but it would be a vast improvement.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,066

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley
    @lottelydia
    In Blair's resignation speech, given in his constituency in May 2007, one almost throwaway line was 'Ask when you last had to wait a year or more on a hospital waiting list, or heard of pensioners freezing to death in the winter unable to heat their homes.'

    https://twitter.com/lottelydia/status/1563502197782253569
    On the other hand, there was the Stafford scandal. And others...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465

    FPT:

    This announcement is old news, which I missed until a piece on Mail online today about Dale Vince's ideas for the energy cap:

    "Dr Dale Vince OBE – the green industrialist, founder of Ecotricity, inventor of the Sky Diamond, and Chairman of Forest Green Rovers, has today announced he’s looking to find a new owner for Ecotricity – the world’s first green energy company, as he considers a move in a very different direction – into the world of politics.

    In a message to the company’s staff, later shared on social media, Dale said the move was to “clear the decks for some new frontiers” including the next general election , which he described as the “most important of our lives”. "

    https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/dale-vince-to-leave-ecotricity

    I seem to recall there was some discussion a few weeks back about some kind of climate change party standing at next GE. Is this what he is hinting at?

    It was a right of centre environmental party ISTR. Similar to the Teal Independents to stand against certain Tories.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley
    @lottelydia
    In Blair's resignation speech, given in his constituency in May 2007, one almost throwaway line was 'Ask when you last had to wait a year or more on a hospital waiting list, or heard of pensioners freezing to death in the winter unable to heat their homes.'

    https://twitter.com/lottelydia/status/1563502197782253569
    On the other hand, there was the Stafford scandal. And others...
    In a field of fairly intense competition, Janos Toth basing an entire election campaign in Cannock Chase around 'defend our glorious NHS by voting Labour' must rank as the most egregious political mistake of all time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    ydoethur said:

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Getting rid of GPs and moving to walk in centres, usually larger ones, would be a definite step in the right direction and save a packet.

    It's as likely to happen as Amanda Spielman doing something that would benefit children, but it would be a vast improvement.
    We don't need to get rid of GPs - we need to train far more of them and make it more attractive to become one. And remain one. And that means they need far more auxiliary support so they aren't doing bollx like filling in forms.

    I was told by my local council recently my GP needed to fill an online form about something utterly trivial to do with my wife's care. Why? It does not need a GP to do this!

    They are the absolute bedrock of the health system.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Some of it holds up relatively well, a lot of it has enormous waiting lists, the terrible state of the ambulance service is well known, and significant chunks - GP surgeries in some areas, mental health provision, and especially the forgotten service that is NHS dentistry - actively impede access, or are simply non-existent. I suspect that these problems are caused by a combination of deep rooted structural deficiencies and a straightforward lack of cash, neither of which I expect to be solved any time soon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    19.5 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,555

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    It's always been the case that the NHS is generally great at acute care, and not so good at care for chronic conditions. But now the acute care part of the system is under ever more strain, and is failing an increasing number of people.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,259

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    And since 2010 NHS employment has increased by over 300k:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/c9lg/pse
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465
    Multiple problems all over.
    Was reading Brillo in the Mail claiming the problems of the new PM are nowhere near as severe as when Thatcher took over in 1979.
    I beg to differ.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    edited August 27
    ydoethur said:

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Getting rid of GPs and moving to walk in centres, usually larger ones, would be a definite step in the right direction and save a packet.

    It's as likely to happen as Amanda Spielman doing something that would benefit children, but it would be a vast improvement.
    That would be madness. Good GP care is essential to the good, proactive management of long-term conditions.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    This announcement is old news, which I missed until a piece on Mail online today about Dale Vince's ideas for the energy cap:

    "Dr Dale Vince OBE – the green industrialist, founder of Ecotricity, inventor of the Sky Diamond, and Chairman of Forest Green Rovers, has today announced he’s looking to find a new owner for Ecotricity – the world’s first green energy company, as he considers a move in a very different direction – into the world of politics.

    In a message to the company’s staff, later shared on social media, Dale said the move was to “clear the decks for some new frontiers” including the next general election , which he described as the “most important of our lives”. "

    https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/dale-vince-to-leave-ecotricity

    I seem to recall there was some discussion a few weeks back about some kind of climate change party standing at next GE. Is this what he is hinting at?

    It was a right of centre environmental party ISTR. Similar to the Teal Independents to stand against certain Tories.
    Thanks.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    edited August 27
    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,931
    dixiedean said:

    Multiple problems all over.
    Was reading Brillo in the Mail claiming the problems of the new PM are nowhere near as severe as when Thatcher took over in 1979.
    I beg to differ.

    To be fair there are probably less problems for a semi-retired multi millionaire in 2022 than there were for an ambitious 30 year old journalist in 1979.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    To what extent are public expectations of the NHS conditioned by never-ending tales of woe written by journalists with an agenda? My immediate family has received excellent, timely treatment from the NHS for at least four serious conditions (cancer, atrial fibrillation, osteoarthritis and premature birth) in the past two years, pandemic notwithstanding. No sign of the media at our door hungry for a vox-pop.

    A lot of us still have positive experiences of the NHS, but this is of precious little use to you if you're pulling out your own teeth, or waiting forty hours on the floor for an ambulance, and then another twenty hours inside the ambulance in a queue outside the hospital. The disasters do happen, and they are not uncommon. The statistics, notably for access to NHS dentistry, mental health services, and ambulance response times, attest to this.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    This announcement is old news, which I missed until a piece on Mail online today about Dale Vince's ideas for the energy cap:

    "Dr Dale Vince OBE – the green industrialist, founder of Ecotricity, inventor of the Sky Diamond, and Chairman of Forest Green Rovers, has today announced he’s looking to find a new owner for Ecotricity – the world’s first green energy company, as he considers a move in a very different direction – into the world of politics.

    In a message to the company’s staff, later shared on social media, Dale said the move was to “clear the decks for some new frontiers” including the next general election , which he described as the “most important of our lives”. "

    https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/dale-vince-to-leave-ecotricity

    I seem to recall there was some discussion a few weeks back about some kind of climate change party standing at next GE. Is this what he is hinting at?

    It was a right of centre environmental party ISTR. Similar to the Teal Independents to stand against certain Tories.
    Thanks.
    Found the article I read.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/28/centre-right-climate-party-ed-gemmell-launches-oust-tory-mps-opposing-climate-action
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    edited August 27

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley
    @lottelydia
    In Blair's resignation speech, given in his constituency in May 2007, one almost throwaway line was 'Ask when you last had to wait a year or more on a hospital waiting list, or heard of pensioners freezing to death in the winter unable to heat their homes.'

    https://twitter.com/lottelydia/status/1563502197782253569
    I remember that, He also said about how well Labour had run the economy... 4 months later Northern Rock would kick off the financial crisis.

    Blair had many attributes but perhaps his best was knowing EXACTLY when to get out lol ;)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,931
    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067
    "How to get over Boris Johnson
    His deranged acolytes will poison the Tory Party
    Dominic Sandbrook"

    https://unherd.com/2022/08/how-to-get-over-boris-johnson/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    ydoethur said:

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Getting rid of GPs and moving to walk in centres, usually larger ones, would be a definite step in the right direction and save a packet.

    It's as likely to happen as Amanda Spielman doing something that would benefit children, but it would be a vast improvement.
    That would be madness. Good GP care is essential to the good, proactive management of long-term conditions.

    Really? How would we know, since we've never had 'good GP care?' (Or at least, not for several decades.)

    In a GP practice, you're very lucky if you see the same GP twice on consecutive appointments, even if it's for the same condition.

    And that's not to deny most GPs work hard and do their best within the limits of the system they're in. I'm sure most do. But the system doesn't work.

    And if you're not going to have continuity of attendance, what's the point of GPs rather than drop in centres?

    I should note in Cannock it's gone the other way. We've lost our minor injury unit so if you need anything seen urgently you can get a GP appointment - not really, actually, because none are ever available - or go to one of Stafford, Lichfield or Wolverhampton.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    Like Brown was?

    Didn't wash then and it won't wash now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    GIN1138 said:

    When Labour left office in 2010, polling showed that public satisfaction with the NHS was at a record high. Not any more.

    Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley
    @lottelydia
    In Blair's resignation speech, given in his constituency in May 2007, one almost throwaway line was 'Ask when you last had to wait a year or more on a hospital waiting list, or heard of pensioners freezing to death in the winter unable to heat their homes.'

    https://twitter.com/lottelydia/status/1563502197782253569
    I remember that, He also said about how well Labour had run the economy... 4 months later Northern Rock would kick off the financial crisis.

    Blair has many attributes but perhaps his best was knowing EXACTLY when to get out lol ;)
    Yep, he couldn’t possibly have timed his departure any better.

    He resigned at the end of June 2007, by the beginning of August Lehman Brothers were in the news.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely this depends on which part of the NHS you interact with? When we had our child eight years ago, the maternity services were good (though it wasn't as if the baby could wait...). Since then, we've had two medical emergencies: my meningitis, and some lung problems with Mrs J. Both were dealt with very well by the ambulance service and hospital. Earlier this week, a few days old baby received apparently good care in another area of the country.

    But our GP service is really, really poor. I think some parts of the NHS are working well, others... less so.

    Getting rid of GPs and moving to walk in centres, usually larger ones, would be a definite step in the right direction and save a packet.

    It's as likely to happen as Amanda Spielman doing something that would benefit children, but it would be a vast improvement.
    That would be madness. Good GP care is essential to the good, proactive management of long-term conditions.

    Really? How would we know, since we've never had 'good GP care?' (Or at least, not for several decades.)

    In a GP practice, you're very lucky if you see the same GP twice on consecutive appointments, even if it's for the same condition.

    And that's not to deny most GPs work hard and do their best within the limits of the system they're in. I'm sure most do. But the system doesn't work.

    And if you're not going to have continuity of attendance, what's the point of GPs rather than drop in centres?

    I should note in Cannock it's gone the other way. We've lost our minor injury unit so if you need anything seen urgently you can get a GP appointment - not really, actually, because none are ever available - or go to one of Stafford, Lichfield or Wolverhampton.
    I can see the same GP on consecutive appointments. So it is very much dependent on your local circumstances.

    What I can't do is ring up at 9am and say I want to see my named GP and expect to be in his office by 11am.

    But no system could deliver that.

    If I want to speak to a doctor on the day it has to be whichever one of them is 'on call' for quickfire appointments.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,651
    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,066
    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    edited August 27

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    There’s no oil money in it. Now, there are the advantages of a very young population here, and there are public hospitals, but if everyone in work has insurance then the public side is under a lot less pressure for routine work.

    The plan for the UK needs to be to rapidly expand healthcare provision, but without hosing yet more money at the NHS. There need to be incentives for employers, and incentives for healthcare companies to invest in expansion of private services, which needs to include a huge expansion of training places. Every solution starts with many more doctors and many more hospitals.

    The NHS is definitely one of those “well I wouldn’t start from here” problems though.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    I’m still down the rabbit hole of cricket. It has a magnificently eccentric and magnificently English history

    Here’s the guy who devised the first rules of cricket WHICH ARE STILL DETERMINED IN MARYLEBONE


    “Charles Bennet, 4th Earl of Tankerville (15 November 1743 – 10 December 1822),[2] styled Lord Ossulston from 1753 to 1767, was a British nobleman, a collector of shells[3] and a famous patron of Surrey cricket in the 1770s. He agreed a set of cricket rules that included the first mention of the Leg before wicket rule.[4]”

    The 4th Earl of Tankerville. Brilliant. And his wiki entry gets better


    “Education: Eton College
    Occupation: Gentleman
    Known for: Cricket”

    And this

    “Tankerville often played cricket and seems to have been a very good fielder, though he was not especially noted for batting or bowling. He was the employer of Edward "Lumpy" Stevens, who was a gardener at Tankerville's Walton-on-Thames estate; and William Bedster, who was his butler. It was the accuracy of "Lumpy" Stevens that led to the introduction of a middle stump. Prior to 1776 there were only two stumps and Lumpy's deliveries could go through the hole. A permanent memorial to Lumpy Stevens has been proposed.[“

    This multibillion pound global sport now thrilling billions of people, especially in Asia, dates back to the 4th Earl of Tankerville (occupation: gentleman) and his gardener “Lumpy” Stevens


    Genius

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bennet,_4th_Earl_of_Tankerville
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Andy_JS said:

    "How to get over Boris Johnson
    His deranged acolytes will poison the Tory Party
    Dominic Sandbrook"

    https://unherd.com/2022/08/how-to-get-over-boris-johnson/

    Excellent.

    And includes the required occasional reminder to the tabloid media that someone who does not command the Commons is not the bloody PM no matter how much they cross their fingers and burn effigies of Sunak.


  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 239
    I've never had a good experience with the NHS - they almost blinded me in the early 2000s by refusing to treat my conjunctivitis until it was too late, then 10 years later insisted the tumour in my eyes was just a speck of dirt and tried to poke it out with a needle (without anaesthetic), then kept me waiting for almost a year for a routine foot operation during the pandemic. You can flood it with as much money as you like, it won't change the fact that the system is set up to belittle patients and make them feel like a burden until their small, cheap problems turn into big, expensive maladies.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,228
    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    Maybe if the government's efficiency minister experienced this inefficiency first hand he might actually try and fix it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488

    rcs1000 said:

    It seems John Redwood is looking for answers to the Winter crisis from his blog commentors - perhaps if he joins the Government they may filter through!

    'The immediate need is a further package of measures to cut the cost of energy by reducing energy taxes, and to provide some offset to the loss of spending power from the increase in gas and electricity prices. It needs to ensure those on low incomes are looked after. What would you like to see in that announcement?'
    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/08/27/paying-for-energy/#comments

    This is Reform UK's Winter policy, and I think it's probably the nearest to my own thoughts for now:



    Full policy deck here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/the-reform-partys-emergency-energy-plan/
    If you want to minimize future UK oil and gas production, that is definitely the way to go.
    I don't want to do that. But the effect of prices at the projected level is that many will not be able to pay. That means no money for these companies. They are expecting the Government to step in and prevent that with a subsidy - that isn't the free market in operation is it?

    Can you also tell me why renewable electricity providers, whose raw material has not increased in price, should be riding the gas price and charging consumers such excessive prices, and again, expecting the Government to make up the shortfall.
    So, renewable energy providers - by and large - are not benefitting from the bonanza. Most commercial wind and solar in the UK is sold on long-term fixed price contracts (via contracts-for-difference). Her Majesty's Government expected to lose out on this arrangement, which is why there is a renwables levy on peoples' bills. Given HMG is currently making out like a bandito on these arrangements (effectively buying wind and solar at £60/MWh and selling it at £250+ (and more than £500 of late). The government should immediately scrap this levy, which would cut bills 15%.

    Ultimately, though, energy consumption has to decline meaningfully in the UK. The price of coal has gone through the roof. The price of natural gas has gone through the roof. Our nuclear plants are managing less uptime than was expected.

    We need to reduce our demand. All the subsidies in the world don't change the fact that there is a limited amount of coal and gas in the world, and the reduction in supplies from Russia needs to be met with reduced demand.

    I would suggest - as I mentioned before - scrapping the renewable levy. I would also suggest that the government looks to make direct grants to the most vulnerable households to enable them to pay their energy bills.

    People used to worry about the cost of energy. They used to turn off lights when they left the room. They would never just leave the central heating on when they left the house.

    It's hard, but world gas supply has fallen, and therefore demand has to fall too. We - all of us - need to be much more energy efficient.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    MaxPB said:

    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    Maybe if the government's efficiency minister experienced this inefficiency first hand he might actually try and fix it.
    Start with the contract that bills the government £1,300, for a car and driver for one day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    They should charge more at the times when extra dollops of stinking bullshit are required - and boy, are these are the times - as it must cost them in points for purgatory.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,228
    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    Given the average age of a Daily Mail reader I wouldn't rule out dementia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
    I think that is Psion.

    The Atari had a big hinge looking at wikipedia.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,303

    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
    I think that is Psion.

    The Atari had a big hinge looking at wikipedia.
    The Psion 3 was about in 1991.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_3
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    Plus, the railways are a 19th century innovation and he is not going to spend time in the future like that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    Dubai doesn't have a lot of oil.

    It also has hundreds of thousands of people who have effectively no health care. If they get sick, they're dumped back on a plane to Bangladesh.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488

    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
    Well, it could well be the Psion 3, which was launched in 1991.

    You know what I loved about all the Psion devices? OPL. You could knock out simple apps in no time at all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488

    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
    Planet Computers makes (made?) a similar device.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    edited August 27
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    There’s no oil money in it. Now, there are the advantages of a very young population here, and there are public hospitals, but if everyone in work has insurance then the public side is under a lot less pressure for routine work.

    The plan for the UK needs to be to rapidly expand healthcare provision, but without hosing yet more money at the NHS. There need to be incentives for employers, and incentives for healthcare companies to invest in expansion of private services, which needs to include a huge expansion of training places. Every solution starts with many more doctors and many more hospitals.

    The NHS is definitely one of those “well I wouldn’t start from here” problems though.
    Yes, but we have to work with what we have. Consider:

    1. The public won't let go of our beloved NHS, in favour of the insurance based systems that actually work better in much of Europe, because it's "free." We can argue about how much it actually costs everyone in exchange for a highly variable quality of service, but that's moot.
    2. Therefore, if you try to solve its problems by somehow incentivising a massive expansion of (very expensive) private health care provision, then you create two important new ones. Firstly, people who are somehow able to stump up the ludicrous cost of comprehensive private health insurance will start to resent being asked to pay taxation to keep the NHS going as well. Secondly, the NHS will end up rationing care in favour of the uninsured, who will primarily be - drumroll - the elderly. It'll simply transform into yet another OAP freebie financed by taxation of the already distressed working population.

    The best solution to the crumbling health service - structural changes, such as more staff training places, bursaries and lower fees notwithstanding - is, I'm afraid, to throw yet more money at it BUT to ensure that this money is forcibly drained from the whole adult population and not just middle-income earners aged under 66. How else do you pay for the extra staff and extra facilities otherwise, without ending up with part-privatisation and the attendant special freebie care for olds problem?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067
    edited August 27
    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    Dubai doesn't have a lot of oil.

    It also has hundreds of thousands of people who have effectively no health care. If they get sick, they're dumped back on a plane to Bangladesh.
    You’re confusing Dubai with Qatar there. Insurance has been compulsory since 2016 in UAE.
    https://gulfnews.com/how-to/your-money/mandatory-health-insurance-in-uae-1.1697940
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    MaxPB said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    Given the average age of a Daily Mail reader I wouldn't rule out dementia.
    I would rule it out. The Daily Mail is a phenomenally successful news website - the 6th most visited in the world (English language)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,066
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    From previous thread:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A cheeky Nortje wicket means only one more needed.

    As someone said the other day: Nortje, Nortje, Verrynne, Nortje.
    I have it on good authority it was a philosopher who said that.
    Can someone explain this joke to me? I’m feeling stupid and excluded
    The first lines of Ebeneezer Goode, by The Shamen.

    Which definitely wasn’t about the joys of drug taking.

    Video features a recently in the news controversial comedian. https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
    I've just rewatched that video, and it features what appears to be a Psion 5 and a (by modern standards) ludicrously large 'mobile' phone.

    Tech has changed much more than music...
    It can't be a Psion 5, because that wasn't released until 1997.

    My money is on it being the Atari Portfolio.
    Ooops! The shots of it are really blurry. It's a clamshell with keyboard at bottom and screen above, and the proportions looked right. I didn't think it was a Psion 3...

    I can't believe the Psion 5 was as late as 1997. I loved mine. I'd still love a similarly-formatted device as I don't get on with on-screen keyboards very well. Other people seem to be able to type at 100 wpm on them; I manage about 3...
    Well, it could well be the Psion 3, which was launched in 1991.

    You know what I loved about all the Psion devices? OPL. You could knock out simple apps in no time at all.
    I worked with someone who was heavily involved with OPL and Epoch (the Psion OS - he worked on 32-bitting the OS). Small teams doing great things. :)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    Plus, the railways are a 19th century innovation and he is not going to spend time in the future like that.
    The invention of the horseless carriage post-dates that of the passenger steam locomotive by something like seventy years. That argument would only work if he had travelled to and from Wrexham in a horse-drawn coach.

    Which would still have had a decent prospect of being faster than the train.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    Dubai doesn't have a lot of oil.

    It also has hundreds of thousands of people who have effectively no health care. If they get sick, they're dumped back on a plane to Bangladesh.
    You’re confusing Dubai with Qatar there. Insurance has been compulsory since 2016 in UAE.
    https://gulfnews.com/how-to/your-money/mandatory-health-insurance-in-uae-1.1697940
    You are correct: my information is out of date.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,753
    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    Trains are a symbol of bourgeois decadence.

    What's the Megabus fare?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,007
    Early evening all :)

    I must confess I'm envious of @Cyclefree's day in the Lakes and having been in Cartmel barely three weeks ago (and that's a village with more than its share of Michelin stars) I have to say the racecourse looked in magnificent shape and Good doesn't really do justice to ground which looked like a carpet.

    As for drinking Aperol (whatever that is) in NW London - meh. Canary Wharf was quieter today but the tubes weren't - TFL did its usual best to irritate everyone's weekend by running its usual "feast and famine" service - three or four tubes within five minutes and then nothing for nine minutes. Basic operational and line control seem to be deficient currently on some of the lines - it should be possible to run a 4-5 minute service at weekends but currently whoever is running the lines seems to struggle even with that basic concept.

    On to other matters and I noted @StuartDickson's comments on the Swedish election and it does seem the Moderates are having an awful campaign. The latest Novus poll has the centre right bloc on 50.7% and the centre left grouping on 47.8% but Novus does seem to poll strongly for the Sweden Democrats in particular - the latest Sifo has a dead heat on 49.6%.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,228
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    Given the average age of a Daily Mail reader I wouldn't rule out dementia.
    I would rule it out. The Daily Mail is a phenomenally successful news website - the 6th most visited in the world (English language)
    Ah that's Mail Online, which is the sidebar of shame with some weird political articles attached. The newspaper readers is who this is aimed at, not the online readership who want to know about some celebrity with cellulite having the temerity to wear a bikini on their private holiday with photos taken from a distance.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,303
    Fishing said:

    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    Trains are a symbol of bourgeois decadence.

    What's the Megabus fare?
    I can imagine JRM travelling by coach, but only the horse-drawn kind.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,931
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is it slowly starting to sink in among the general population, what anyone who’s lived abroad has been able to see for ages, that the NHS is anything but the “envy of the world”?

    My wife needed to see a specialist doctor this week. She called up his hospital and got an appointment for the following day.
    Yes, it’s a private insurance-based system, but the insurance is compulsory for employers, and you can see almost any specialist within a couple of days - rather than a couple of hundred days. Just think about that for a minute.

    How would Dubai healthcare look without the $$$ from oil? Also try getting insurance if you are elderly and not working there or an Emirati.

    Yes, they have excellent healthcare available and there is stuff we can learn from them but it is very far from something that is easy and desirable to replicate here.
    Dubai doesn't have a lot of oil.

    It also has hundreds of thousands of people who have effectively no health care. If they get sick, they're dumped back on a plane to Bangladesh.
    Dubai itself doesn't but big brother in Abu Dhabi does, and has bankrolled the development of Dubai's economy. Oil money from Abu Dhabi bailed out Dubai again after the GFE and Covid.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    Given the average age of a Daily Mail reader I wouldn't rule out dementia.
    I would rule it out. The Daily Mail is a phenomenally successful news website - the 6th most visited in the world (English language)
    The Mail website and the dead tree paper are two quite different things though. The former is a very successful vehicle for advertising sales driven mostly by celebrity clickbait pap. The latter is bias confirmation targeted at reactionary old farts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    The Daily Mail is an outstanding British export of which we should all be proud. They have geniuses writing the most clickbaity stories - often superbly targeted at right wing Americans

    Bravo

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,162
    edited August 27
    DavidL said:

    The fact that a third do really highlights the deficiency in mental health provision.

    I hesitate to criticise you @DavidL but that is unworthy of you. Mental health provision is really poor and it causes real problems for those suffering from it and their families. I am one of those as I went through a dark, very dark, decade when my son was seriously ill. We were told at the time that the waiting list even to get considered for a place at the only clinic which really treated his condition was 2 years. This was at the point when through the kindness of a Good Samaritan who called the police he'd narrowly escaped death. So we paid and paid and paid, for years and years. And now, thank God, he is himself again and beginning to live a normal and hopeful life like the rest of us.

    But if you don't have the resources, what happens? It is utter misery of a type which if you haven't been through it is hard to comprehend. It is like being in a darkened room with a person howling in pain and trying to find the light switch or the door handle and not even knowing whether there is a door or light switch or if there is whether there is any light outside. It affects the person suffering and those around them. It is no joke. And it is lonely because so many people do treat it as a joke or as made up or as if it's your fault. So you can add guilt and loneliness into the mix. And it is not just a health issue because so many of those who end up in our prisons have mental health issues or their children in foster care.

    It is - and always has been - the Cinderella of our health service. But we should do more. We really should. Fat chance.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778

    Yes, but the problem is if they've suddenly got £500 a month less discretionary income to spend, the economy goes pop.

    Every pound they spend boiling the kettle to put water in the hot water bottle is a pound they're not going out and spending in shops, restaurants, pubs, takeaways...
    Besides which, it misses the more fundamental point that people on £45,000 salaries should not find themselves having to turn the central heating off and survive with the aid of blankets, pullovers and hot water bottles in the first place.

    It's bad enough when anyone is reduced to shivering in a cold home, but when middle income earners are that hard up then it's a sure sign that the economy is failing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Genuine, LOL, mouthful of evening beer over the keyboard moment:


    "Liz Truss’s sound leadership will help Britain prosper"

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1563566519744835584

    "We can take comfort in the fact that our governing party is both experienced and successful."
    I'm not sure how much of this is deliberately trolling, and how much is down to the average Mail reader being so thick or so demented that they actually buy this bullshit.
    Given the average age of a Daily Mail reader I wouldn't rule out dementia.
    I would rule it out. The Daily Mail is a phenomenally successful news website - the 6th most visited in the world (English language)
    Ah that's Mail Online, which is the sidebar of shame with some weird political articles attached. The newspaper readers is who this is aimed at, not the online readership who want to know about some celebrity with cellulite having the temerity to wear a bikini on their private holiday with photos taken from a distance.
    That’s not quite true. Along with the celeb stuff Mail online is pumping out clever politics stories aimed at the frontline of the American culture wars, and it does it really well. You often see it cited by Americans in America

    They have seen their market and they are going for it ruthlessly

    It generates £150m a year and that’s growing fast
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,007
    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778

    Yes, but the problem is if they've suddenly got £500 a month less discretionary income to spend, the economy goes pop.

    Every pound they spend boiling the kettle to put water in the hot water bottle is a pound they're not going out and spending in shops, restaurants, pubs, takeaways...
    It may be something, it may be nothing and strictly anecdotal but Mrs Stodge, a keen and adroit shopper (so she tells me) said the shops were "quiet" out and about today with the exception of the Beigel Lane Bagel shop where the bagels are now going for 40p per time which clearly indicates the end of days.

    Without wishing to parody another poster, the August Bank Holiday weekend has always had a bit of fin de siecle about it. It was of course at the beginning of the month back in 1914 and we all know what happened.

    Nowadays, it marks the end of holidays, often the end of reliable decent weather, people notice the nights drawing in and it's now getting dark at 8. It marks the beginning of depressing normality, deteriorating weather and darkening uncertainty - no wonder people want to enjoy themselves one last time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    Anyway, in other news my grand-niece is out of hospital and apparently thriving. They think they caught the sepsis early (though they have no idea where a newborn got it...)

    From the little I know, sounds like a good job from the hospital and 111 service.

    Yippee!

    Good news

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,205
    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778

    Yes, but the problem is if they've suddenly got £500 a month less discretionary income to spend, the economy goes pop.

    Every pound they spend boiling the kettle to put water in the hot water bottle is a pound they're not going out and spending in shops, restaurants, pubs, takeaways...
    Yeah it is that and the problem of mortgage interest rate rises kicking in. Double trouble.
    Lots of people earning 45k in big houses with large mortgages.
    You don't need to look very far for things that compound the misery. IE trouble in the construction industry. Contractors going bust. I'm hearing a lot about this.
    It certainly feels to me like we are at the start of a crash.
    I don't see a solution... other than to do a 'deal' with Putin.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,162
    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    And I am happy that you enjoy it!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,162
    @Luckyguy1983

    Thank you for your offer (fpt). That is very kind of you. It is a work-related piece - one of a series over a year - so my specialist subject. Still pressure to get it right. But I work best with a bit of adrenaline and a deadline and I've worked out what I want to write. So .... fingers crossed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    edited August 27
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It seems John Redwood is looking for answers to the Winter crisis from his blog commentors - perhaps if he joins the Government they may filter through!

    'The immediate need is a further package of measures to cut the cost of energy by reducing energy taxes, and to provide some offset to the loss of spending power from the increase in gas and electricity prices. It needs to ensure those on low incomes are looked after. What would you like to see in that announcement?'
    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/08/27/paying-for-energy/#comments

    This is Reform UK's Winter policy, and I think it's probably the nearest to my own thoughts for now:



    Full policy deck here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/the-reform-partys-emergency-energy-plan/
    If you want to minimize future UK oil and gas production, that is definitely the way to go.
    I don't want to do that. But the effect of prices at the projected level is that many will not be able to pay. That means no money for these companies. They are expecting the Government to step in and prevent that with a subsidy - that isn't the free market in operation is it?

    Can you also tell me why renewable electricity providers, whose raw material has not increased in price, should be riding the gas price and charging consumers such excessive prices, and again, expecting the Government to make up the shortfall.
    So, renewable energy providers - by and large - are not benefitting from the bonanza. Most commercial wind and solar in the UK is sold on long-term fixed price contracts (via contracts-for-difference). Her Majesty's Government expected to lose out on this arrangement, which is why there is a renwables levy on peoples' bills. Given HMG is currently making out like a bandito on these arrangements (effectively buying wind and solar at £60/MWh and selling it at £250+ (and more than £500 of late). The government should immediately scrap this levy, which would cut bills 15%.

    Ultimately, though, energy consumption has to decline meaningfully in the UK. The price of coal has gone through the roof. The price of natural gas has gone through the roof. Our nuclear plants are managing less uptime than was expected.

    We need to reduce our demand. All the subsidies in the world don't change the fact that there is a limited amount of coal and gas in the world, and the reduction in supplies from Russia needs to be met with reduced demand.

    I would suggest - as I mentioned before - scrapping the renewable levy. I would also suggest that the government looks to make direct grants to the most vulnerable households to enable them to pay their energy bills.

    People used to worry about the cost of energy. They used to turn off lights when they left the room. They would never just leave the central heating on when they left the house.

    It's hard, but world gas supply has fallen, and therefore demand has to fall too. We - all of us - need to be much more energy efficient.
    I don't agree. Use of energy = a growing and thriving economy. Why should people be made to switch their lights off when they leave a room - why should that be anyone else's business? Why should they not have the house like a sauna and prance around in their smalls if they so wish? Why is it acceptable, when technology improves every year, and new sources of energy come on stream all the time, to ask people to contemplate a life of less comfort than their parents enjoyed? And why should this dark ages-recalling reversion of society be sold to people for such an absurd reason as a wish to alter the course of relations between Ukraine and Russia - two of the most corrupt and backward nations in Europe. The whole thing is beyond ridiculous.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,594
    Currently experiencing a shite 35 minute wait for a bus in the centre of the biggest population centre in the North East. That’s if it turns up.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    Cyclefree said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    Thank you for your offer (fpt). That is very kind of you. It is a work-related piece - one of a series over a year - so my specialist subject. Still pressure to get it right. But I work best with a bit of adrenaline and a deadline and I've worked out what I want to write. So .... fingers crossed.

    Awesome news. You'll ace it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067
    "It’s time for Anglofuturism
    Westminster's stagnant ideology will guarantee collapse
    BY ARIS ROUSSINOS
    .......................................................................................................
    Today, however, the British state’s inability to provide the most basic of functions — stopping crime; providing adequate healthcare, housing and functioning utilities like energy and water — are the central plank of political discussion. We have won the argument, yet there has been very little reflection on what this means, or how we have reached this dismal state of affairs. Worse, the people who brought us here are still in charge."

    https://unherd.com/2022/08/its-time-for-anglofuturism/
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,488
    darkage said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778

    Yes, but the problem is if they've suddenly got £500 a month less discretionary income to spend, the economy goes pop.

    Every pound they spend boiling the kettle to put water in the hot water bottle is a pound they're not going out and spending in shops, restaurants, pubs, takeaways...
    Yeah it is that and the problem of mortgage interest rate rises kicking in. Double trouble.
    Lots of people earning 45k in big houses with large mortgages.
    You don't need to look very far for things that compound the misery. IE trouble in the construction industry. Contractors going bust. I'm hearing a lot about this.
    It certainly feels to me like we are at the start of a crash.
    I don't see a solution... other than to do a 'deal' with Putin.
    There is no deal Putin will keep. He must go before anything can change.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    A return ticket would have cost around £200, so the article is wrong in that respect.

    However, Wrexham actually has a very good railway service to Crewe, which is of course the hub of the WCML and amply served by fast expresses to London. So it would only have taken 3 hours 40 minutes with one easy change to get there. Having driven from here to London and here to Rhyl many times, that compares very favourably with the road option.

    He was spending the money because he didn't want to be with oiks. No other reason.

    Which also means if he wanted to pay £1,300 (what was he using for fuel? Liquid gold?) he should fund the difference himself.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,996
    Labour to change constitution to rule out coalition with the SNP

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19637086/labour-constitution-rule-out-snp-coalition/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    @JosiasJessop and co:

    I've been keen to recreate the Z88 design using modern components rather than the Psion Series 5. Basically, a top notch (but silent) keyboard, sitting below a letterbox sized display.

    Given the availability of decent SBCs these days and the ability to source displays from China (maybe using the ones used for rear view mirrors), I don't reckon it would be too hard. EXCEPT for battery management. That'd be tough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    And I am happy that you enjoy it!
    Cricket is hugely civilising. It is also highly cerebral. The “chess of physical sports”. It is great for Homo sapiens if it is becoming a dominant global sport

    Also YAY ENGLISH SPORTS RULE THE WORLD
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1563572047048912897

    Efficiency minister Jacob Rees-Mogg spent £1,300 of public money travelling to Wales by car.

    A return train ticket would have cost £98.


    I have to confess to mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, Rees-Mogg is clearly behaving here like an entitled, hypocritical, fantastically rich prick. As per usual.

    On the other hand, if you tried to get from London to Wrexham and back by train it would probably take about a week. Combination of knackered tracks, digging up and replacing knackered tracks, broken down trains, industrial action, connecting services that are deliberately planned so you have to wait as long for the connections to arrive as humanly possible, and about 50,000 other duff excuses for late notice delays and cancellations ("unavailability of train crew" is the favourite at the moment, but anything else, up to and including swans trespassing on the line and signalling equipment being struck by lightning, is also possible.)

    Anyone who needs to rely on trains to get around knows how abject they can be, and frequently are.

    A return ticket would have cost around £200, so the article is wrong in that respect.

    However, Wrexham actually has a very good railway service to Crewe, which is of course the hub of the WCML and amply served by fast expresses to London. So it would only have taken 3 hours 40 minutes with one easy change to get there. Having driven from here to London and here to Rhyl many times, that compares very favourably with the road option.

    He was spending the money because he didn't want to be with oiks. No other reason.

    Which also means if he wanted to pay £1,300 (what was he using for fuel? Liquid gold?) he should fund the difference himself.
    He'd have needed a car at the Wales end unless he was meeting someone at Pret A Manger. That's another £150 odd. Not vast but it all mounts up. If the chauffeur was already on a full time salary too, that makes a difference.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It seems John Redwood is looking for answers to the Winter crisis from his blog commentors - perhaps if he joins the Government they may filter through!

    'The immediate need is a further package of measures to cut the cost of energy by reducing energy taxes, and to provide some offset to the loss of spending power from the increase in gas and electricity prices. It needs to ensure those on low incomes are looked after. What would you like to see in that announcement?'
    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/08/27/paying-for-energy/#comments

    This is Reform UK's Winter policy, and I think it's probably the nearest to my own thoughts for now:



    Full policy deck here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/the-reform-partys-emergency-energy-plan/
    If you want to minimize future UK oil and gas production, that is definitely the way to go.
    I don't want to do that. But the effect of prices at the projected level is that many will not be able to pay. That means no money for these companies. They are expecting the Government to step in and prevent that with a subsidy - that isn't the free market in operation is it?

    Can you also tell me why renewable electricity providers, whose raw material has not increased in price, should be riding the gas price and charging consumers such excessive prices, and again, expecting the Government to make up the shortfall.
    So, renewable energy providers - by and large - are not benefitting from the bonanza. Most commercial wind and solar in the UK is sold on long-term fixed price contracts (via contracts-for-difference). Her Majesty's Government expected to lose out on this arrangement, which is why there is a renwables levy on peoples' bills. Given HMG is currently making out like a bandito on these arrangements (effectively buying wind and solar at £60/MWh and selling it at £250+ (and more than £500 of late). The government should immediately scrap this levy, which would cut bills 15%.

    Ultimately, though, energy consumption has to decline meaningfully in the UK. The price of coal has gone through the roof. The price of natural gas has gone through the roof. Our nuclear plants are managing less uptime than was expected.

    We need to reduce our demand. All the subsidies in the world don't change the fact that there is a limited amount of coal and gas in the world, and the reduction in supplies from Russia needs to be met with reduced demand.

    I would suggest - as I mentioned before - scrapping the renewable levy. I would also suggest that the government looks to make direct grants to the most vulnerable households to enable them to pay their energy bills.

    People used to worry about the cost of energy. They used to turn off lights when they left the room. They would never just leave the central heating on when they left the house.

    It's hard, but world gas supply has fallen, and therefore demand has to fall too. We - all of us - need to be much more energy efficient.
    I don't agree. Use of energy = a growing and thriving economy. Why should people be made to switch their lights off when they leave a room - why should that be anyone else's business? Why should they not have the house like a sauna and prance around in their smalls if they so wish? Why is it acceptable, when technology improves every year, and new sources of energy come on stream all the time, to ask people to contemplate a life of less comfort than their parents enjoyed? And why should this dark ages-recalling reversion of society be sold to people for such an absurd
    reason as a wish to alter the course of relations between Ukraine and Russia - two of the most corrupt and backward nations in Europe. The whole thing is beyond ridiculous.
    Hilarious bit of shit posting. Well done.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    darkage said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think people earning £45,000 a year can afford to buy a hot water bottle and a thick jumper.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62695778

    Yes, but the problem is if they've suddenly got £500 a month less discretionary income to spend, the economy goes pop.

    Every pound they spend boiling the kettle to put water in the hot water bottle is a pound they're not going out and spending in shops, restaurants, pubs, takeaways...
    Yeah it is that and the problem of mortgage interest rate rises kicking in. Double trouble.
    Lots of people earning 45k in big houses with large mortgages.
    You don't need to look very far for things that compound the misery. IE trouble in the construction industry. Contractors going bust. I'm hearing a lot about this.
    It certainly feels to me like we are at the start of a crash.
    I don't see a solution... other than to do a 'deal' with Putin.
    We've been through exactly this scenario before in the 1970s, when petroleum exporting states wished to stop the US supporting Israel.

    The West remained resolute and - in the medium term - it was the oil exporters who found themselves fucked.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    edited August 27
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It seems John Redwood is looking for answers to the Winter crisis from his blog commentors - perhaps if he joins the Government they may filter through!

    'The immediate need is a further package of measures to cut the cost of energy by reducing energy taxes, and to provide some offset to the loss of spending power from the increase in gas and electricity prices. It needs to ensure those on low incomes are looked after. What would you like to see in that announcement?'
    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/08/27/paying-for-energy/#comments

    This is Reform UK's Winter policy, and I think it's probably the nearest to my own thoughts for now:



    Full policy deck here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/the-reform-partys-emergency-energy-plan/
    If you want to minimize future UK oil and gas production, that is definitely the way to go.
    I don't want to do that. But the effect of prices at the projected level is that many will not be able to pay. That means no money for these companies. They are expecting the Government to step in and prevent that with a subsidy - that isn't the free market in operation is it?

    Can you also tell me why renewable electricity providers, whose raw material has not increased in price, should be riding the gas price and charging consumers such excessive prices, and again, expecting the Government to make up the shortfall.
    So, renewable energy providers - by and large - are not benefitting from the bonanza. Most commercial wind and solar in the UK is sold on long-term fixed price contracts (via contracts-for-difference). Her Majesty's Government expected to lose out on this arrangement, which is why there is a renwables levy on peoples' bills. Given HMG is currently making out like a bandito on these arrangements (effectively buying wind and solar at £60/MWh and selling it at £250+ (and more than £500 of late). The government should immediately scrap this levy, which would cut bills 15%.

    Ultimately, though, energy consumption has to decline meaningfully in the UK. The price of coal has gone through the roof. The price of natural gas has gone through the roof. Our nuclear plants are managing less uptime than was expected.

    We need to reduce our demand. All the subsidies in the world don't change the fact that there is a limited amount of coal and gas in the world, and the reduction in supplies from Russia needs to be met with reduced demand.

    I would suggest - as I mentioned before - scrapping the renewable levy. I would also suggest that the government looks to make direct grants to the most vulnerable households to enable them to pay their energy bills.

    People used to worry about the cost of energy. They used to turn off lights when they left the room. They would never just leave the central heating on when they left the house.

    It's hard, but world gas supply has fallen, and therefore demand has to fall too. We - all of us - need to be much more energy efficient.
    I don't agree. Use of energy = a growing and thriving economy. Why should people be made to switch their lights off when they leave a room - why should that be anyone else's business? Why should they not have the house like a sauna and prance around in their smalls if they so wish? Why is it acceptable, when technology improves every year, and new sources of energy come on stream all the time, to ask people to contemplate a life of less comfort than their parents enjoyed? And why should this dark ages-recalling reversion of society be sold to people for such an absurd
    reason as a wish to alter the course of relations between Ukraine and Russia - two of the most corrupt and backward nations in Europe. The whole thing is beyond ridiculous.
    Hilarious bit of shit posting. Well done.
    I don't know what shit posting is, but I am glad you enjoyed it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161

    Labour to change constitution to rule out coalition with the SNP

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19637086/labour-constitution-rule-out-snp-coalition/

    Funny they don't do that with the Tories. Vide Scottish local government.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067

    Labour to change constitution to rule out coalition with the SNP

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19637086/labour-constitution-rule-out-snp-coalition/

    The right move by Starmer. Otherwise Labour's general election campaign would be derailed yet again by the subject.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    edited August 27

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It seems John Redwood is looking for answers to the Winter crisis from his blog commentors - perhaps if he joins the Government they may filter through!

    'The immediate need is a further package of measures to cut the cost of energy by reducing energy taxes, and to provide some offset to the loss of spending power from the increase in gas and electricity prices. It needs to ensure those on low incomes are looked after. What would you like to see in that announcement?'
    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/08/27/paying-for-energy/#comments

    This is Reform UK's Winter policy, and I think it's probably the nearest to my own thoughts for now:



    Full policy deck here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/the-reform-partys-emergency-energy-plan/
    If you want to minimize future UK oil and gas production, that is definitely the way to go.
    I don't want to do that. But the effect of prices at the projected level is that many will not be able to pay. That means no money for these companies. They are expecting the Government to step in and prevent that with a subsidy - that isn't the free market in operation is it?

    Can you also tell me why renewable electricity providers, whose raw material has not increased in price, should be riding the gas price and charging consumers such excessive prices, and again, expecting the Government to make up the shortfall.
    So, renewable energy providers - by and large - are not benefitting from the bonanza. Most commercial wind and solar in the UK is sold on long-term fixed price contracts (via contracts-for-difference). Her Majesty's Government expected to lose out on this arrangement, which is why there is a renwables levy on peoples' bills. Given HMG is currently making out like a bandito on these arrangements (effectively buying wind and solar at £60/MWh and selling it at £250+ (and more than £500 of late). The government should immediately scrap this levy, which would cut bills 15%.

    Ultimately, though, energy consumption has to decline meaningfully in the UK. The price of coal has gone through the roof. The price of natural gas has gone through the roof. Our nuclear plants are managing less uptime than was expected.

    We need to reduce our demand. All the subsidies in the world don't change the fact that there is a limited amount of coal and gas in the world, and the reduction in supplies from Russia needs to be met with reduced demand.

    I would suggest - as I mentioned before - scrapping the renewable levy. I would also suggest that the government looks to make direct grants to the most vulnerable households to enable them to pay their energy bills.

    People used to worry about the cost of energy. They used to turn off lights when they left the room. They would never just leave the central heating on when they left the house.

    It's hard, but world gas supply has fallen, and therefore demand has to fall too. We - all of us - need to be much more energy efficient.
    I don't agree. Use of energy = a growing and thriving economy. Why should people be made to switch their lights off when they leave a room - why should that be anyone else's business? Why should they not have the house like a sauna and prance around in their smalls if they so wish? Why is it acceptable, when technology improves every year, and new sources of energy come on stream all the time, to ask people to contemplate a life of less comfort than their parents enjoyed? And why should this dark ages-recalling reversion of society be sold to people for such an absurd reason as a wish to alter the course of relations between Ukraine and Russia - two of the most corrupt and backward nations in Europe. The whole thing is beyond ridiculous.
    The dictionary definition of economics (or so I was told) is "a study of the efficient allocation of scarce resources." There is nothing inherently good or bad about energy usage. It is an enabler.

    If I buy a more efficient air conditioning unit that uses less power to cool a room..., then my lower usage of energy does not somehow make the country a worse place to be.

    The world currently has a shortage of energy, because the world's largest gas exporter is sending 80% less abroad than it was.

    In the short term, we have two options.

    We could give in, stop arming the Ukrainians, and I'm sure the Russians would be happy to turn the taps back on (as well as to see sanctions removed).

    Or we could be a little more efficient in our usage of energy, because there is less available than there was.

    Those are really the only two short-term options.

    In the medium term, we can enter into long-term energy supply contracts with politically stable countries. We can also build more solar, wind and nuclear. Storage - gas and coal - would probably also be a good idea. Having six months of gas imports lined up would have made a massive difference.

    In the long term, we can also incentivize oil & gas exploration companies to drill more wells in the UK (albeit probably mostly off-shore), and also to look into unconventional sources of energy, such as coal seam methane and shale gas.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour to change constitution to rule out coalition with the SNP

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19637086/labour-constitution-rule-out-snp-coalition/

    The right move by Starmer. Otherwise Labour's general election campaign would be derailed yet again by the subject.
    Yes, that’s clever. Close the argument down

    Labour are going to win in 2024

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,066
    edited August 27
    rcs1000 said:

    @JosiasJessop and co:

    I've been keen to recreate the Z88 design using modern components rather than the Psion Series 5. Basically, a top notch (but silent) keyboard, sitting below a letterbox sized display.

    Given the availability of decent SBCs these days and the ability to source displays from China (maybe using the ones used for rear view mirrors), I don't reckon it would be too hard. EXCEPT for battery management. That'd be tough.

    The problem is the amount of text that needs to be entered. OSK's are fineish for a tweet of a couple of sentences. I used to write up my walks on a Psion 5 - the text for many of the coastal walks write-ups were done on a Psion 5, and that was bearable. But for large amounts of text, or things with lots of graphics, then a large screen is required - and you're into either phones-or-tablets-with-keyboard, or 10-inch laptop territory.

    A Psion 5 replacement would be very much specialist kit. I'd love on, though. I think the late Paul Allen was working on one twenty years ago, but it was never released.

    Edit: it was released, but my god, they needed a better industrial designer...
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/remembering-the-flipstart-mobile-pc-by-microsoft-cofounder-paul-allen/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_FlipStart

    Also: where the Psion 5 really won was from using just two AA batteries and getting tremendous life out of them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    And I am happy that you enjoy it!
    Cricket is hugely civilising. It is also highly cerebral. The “chess of physical sports”. It is great for Homo sapiens if it is becoming a dominant global sport

    Also YAY ENGLISH SPORTS RULE THE WORLD
    Cricket is 3D chess.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,967
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    And I am happy that you enjoy it!
    Cricket is hugely civilising. It is also highly cerebral. The “chess of physical sports”. It is great for Homo sapiens if it is becoming a dominant global sport

    Also YAY ENGLISH SPORTS RULE THE WORLD
    Cricket is 3D chess.
    Even more so than actual 3D chess?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,651
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on cricket (sorry @Cyclefree )

    But in general cricket is thriving. The Indian Premier League is one of the richest, and most watched sports leagues in the world. I’ve just been reading the stats. Incredible sums

    It can only be good for cricket that money is flooding in. Yes it will change the sport but this means sport will survive and prosper and attract young kids, creating the stars of the future

    Eg I’ve realised that the IPL money could save West Indian cricket. As we know windies cricket has been on a long downwards slope and many Caribbean boys are playing basketball and looking at the NBA

    With the money you can now make in cricket (without having to be 7 foot tall) they will surely return to their first native sport: cricket

    The money means cricket will expand globally, as well

    https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/08/26/the-footballisation-of-cricket

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/20/cricket-looks-set-to-become-a-global-game


    I adore cricket. This summer has reminded me of that. It’s great that it prospers

    And I am happy that you enjoy it!
    Cricket is hugely civilising. It is also highly cerebral. The “chess of physical sports”. It is great for Homo sapiens if it is becoming a dominant global sport

    Also YAY ENGLISH SPORTS RULE THE WORLD
    Cricket is highly boring and tedious, especially the five day version. That's why hardly anyone outside the Commonwealth plays it.
This discussion has been closed.