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Whilst CON MPs don’t decide who leads they can sack the winner – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,586
edited August 2022 in General
imageWhilst CON MPs don’t decide who leads they can sack the winner – politicalbetting.com

If the YouGov polling of CON members is right then the party is about to choose as leader someone who is not the first choice of Tory MPs.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 599
    Seems to be working. Maybe everyone has gone to bed.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,424
    As far as the publicly-stated preferences of MPs go, Liz Truss is the preferred first choice of MPs as it currently stands.

    Yes she wasn't in prior rounds of voting, but Mordaunt was eliminated in the final MP-only voting and then her votes weren't redistributed prior to the final, public round of voting. Mordaunt is backing Truss as are more of her MPs which is why Truss is in the lead on MPs now, ahead of Sunak.

    It could be argued that some of those now backing Truss are only doing so as she's the expected winner, but its also true that some might have been backing Sunak when he was the long-term favourite for the same reason too so that's just swings and roundabouts.

    Bottom line, Truss has more MPs backing her, and probably more members doing so too. She is the first choice.
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 599
    There must be many Conservative MPs wondering how on earth Liz Truss could get to be leader, but that's a long way from voting her out. Doesn't she really need to significantly underperform expectations before they can override the membership, or at least lose a general election.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    gettingbetter said:

    There must be many Conservative MPs wondering how on earth Liz Truss could get to be leader, but that's a long way from voting her out. Doesn't she really need to significantly underperform expectations before they can override the membership, or at least lose a general election.

    Truss's situation might mean she needs to be more careful about balancing the Cabinet than the last guy was.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,753
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    As far as the publicly-stated preferences of MPs go, Liz Truss is the preferred first choice of MPs as it currently stands.

    Yes she wasn't in prior rounds of voting, but Mordaunt was eliminated in the final MP-only voting and then her votes weren't redistributed prior to the final, public round of voting. Mordaunt is backing Truss as are more of her MPs which is why Truss is in the lead on MPs now, ahead of Sunak.

    It could be argued that some of those now backing Truss are only doing so as she's the expected winner, but its also true that some might have been backing Sunak when he was the long-term favourite for the same reason too so that's just swings and roundabouts.

    Bottom line, Truss has more MPs backing her, and probably more members doing so too. She is the first choice.

    That's true...

    ... Cynically, though, one has to ask how many of those mps have chosen to back her out of hope of preferment.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,753
    For those of us with very small (albeit very long odds) bets on Lee losing to McMullin in Utah, it's worth noting that Lee has agreed to a televised debate.

    Previously he'd said he wouldn't bother, so one presumes that either he's feeling so confident that he doesn't see any downside. Or... he's worried.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Nato investigates hacker sale of missile firm data

    Nato is assessing the impact of a data breach of classified military documents being sold by a hacker group online.

    The data includes blueprints of weapons being used by Nato allies in the Ukraine conflict.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62672184

    Oops.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    From the r/greenandpleasant sub, on Reddit UK’s front page;

    “ Eon have just quoted me £13,065 annually for a fixed dual fuel contract after my current fixed contract ends. We’re a family of three in an old, poorly insulated house and currently pay £250 pcm. How the f*ck is anyone going to survive this sort of increase?”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/wxmv3k/eon_have_just_quoted_me_13065_annually_for_a/

    Greenandpleasant is, from what I can tell, of the BJO school of politics (Corbynista, very anti-Tory, anti Kier) - seems to get a lot of traction on Reddit.

    They’re desperate and angry and getting angrier.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    France ‘demands extra €110m’ from Britain for Channel migrant patrols
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-demands-extra-110m-britain-liz-truss-priti-patel-channel-migrants-d62ck52jk (£££)
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    Also, from the generally unpolitical R/AskUK, a post that has been upvoted enough to hit the frontpage;

    “ Anyone have an idea for a nutrisious, cheap, non-cooked meal to live off of during Winter?

    Just looking for a cheap meal, easily made without cooking to avoid using the oven. Doesn’t have to look/taste good, just be enough to keep me sustained during winter months.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wx8bsr/anyone_have_an_idea_for_a_nutrisious_cheap/

    There are a lot of really desperate people out there. One hell of a challenge for Truss to reconcile her “Brittania Unchained” unashamed neoliberalism with the desperation many in the country are already facing.

    And it’s about to get a whole lot worse.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    ping said:

    Also, from the generally unpolitical R/AskUK, a post that has been upvoted enough to hit the frontpage;

    “ Anyone have an idea for a nutrisious, cheap, non-cooked meal to live off of during Winter?

    Just looking for a cheap meal, easily made without cooking to avoid using the oven. Doesn’t have to look/taste good, just be enough to keep me sustained during winter months.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wx8bsr/anyone_have_an_idea_for_a_nutrisious_cheap/

    There are a lot of really desperate people out there. One hell of a challenge for Truss to reconcile her “Brittania Unchained” unashamed neoliberalism with the desperation many in the country are already facing.

    And it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

    With the new price cap due to be announced, this is a bad time for the government to have disappeared. With 10 days to the 5th September, surely both leadership candidates will need to announce their relief plans in detail.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    On topic, Spectator TV includes Andrew Neil and Katie Balls discussing whether Liz Truss will be able to reunite the party.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwIjRwFF_vg&t=1461s
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Seems I made the right decision to get the fuck out of dodge.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,761
    Gardenwalker said:

    Seems I made the right decision to get the fuck out of dodge.

    For someone who raves about how amazing NZ is, and now lives in a totally different country, you seem to spend an awful lot of time passing judgement on this one.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    One thing the 1922 Committee must do is sort out its rules so we never again have a 3-month interregnum (not to mention blue-on-blue attacks). It is fine in Opposition for a party to take its time consulting the membership but not in government; as we see, even over the summer recess, the world keeps turning and not always in a controlled manner.

    Liz Truss (or the other guy) will want to make it harder to challenge an incumbent Prime Minister, of course, but that is not the issue since none of the last three leadership races was triggered by the Prime Minister losing a confidence vote.

    The obvious change would be not to consult the wider membership at all in choosing a new Prime Minister. At least MPs, having themselves been elected, can claim they represent their constituents, but this is not quite satisfactory because it leaves out Conservatives in losing seats, and bases MPs' claim to legitimacy on their also representing Labour and other voters.

    It might be that the election should be run backwards, so that voluntary party members choose the shortlist from whom the parliamentary party makes the final selection. This would satisfy the needs of party democracy but also avoid the issue identified in the header of having an unsatisfactory and unpopular new leader and Prime Minister foisted on MPs. With online voting, the whole process could be condensed to a week or even two days now the software is in place.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Rishi moves out a point for next leader.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    15 Rishi Sunak 7%
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,890
    gettingbetter said:

    There must be many Conservative MPs wondering how on earth Liz Truss could get to be leader, but that's a long way from voting her out. Doesn't she really need to significantly underperform expectations before they can override the membership, or at least lose a general election.

    Depends where expectations are set. If she meets my expectations I suspect they will ditch her (and probably bring Bozo back).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,838
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    One thing the 1922 Committee must do is sort out its rules so we never again have a 3-month interregnum (not to mention blue-on-blue attacks). It is fine in Opposition for a party to take its time consulting the membership but not in government; as we see, even over the summer recess, the world keeps turning and not always in a controlled manner.

    Liz Truss (or the other guy) will want to make it harder to challenge an incumbent Prime Minister, of course, but that is not the issue since none of the last three leadership races was triggered by the Prime Minister losing a confidence vote.

    The obvious change would be not to consult the wider membership at all in choosing a new Prime Minister. At least MPs, having themselves been elected, can claim they represent their constituents, but this is not quite satisfactory because it leaves out Conservatives in losing seats, and bases MPs' claim to legitimacy on their also representing Labour and other voters.

    It might be that the election should be run backwards, so that voluntary party members choose the shortlist from whom the parliamentary party makes the final selection. This would satisfy the needs of party democracy but also avoid the issue identified in the header of having an unsatisfactory and unpopular new leader and Prime Minister foisted on MPs. With online voting, the whole process could be condensed to a week or even two days now the software is in place.

    I think giving it over to the members is fine, but that part of the process is too long by several weeks.
    It's longer than a general election l
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Pulpstar said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    One thing the 1922 Committee must do is sort out its rules so we never again have a 3-month interregnum (not to mention blue-on-blue attacks). It is fine in Opposition for a party to take its time consulting the membership but not in government; as we see, even over the summer recess, the world keeps turning and not always in a controlled manner.

    Liz Truss (or the other guy) will want to make it harder to challenge an incumbent Prime Minister, of course, but that is not the issue since none of the last three leadership races was triggered by the Prime Minister losing a confidence vote.

    The obvious change would be not to consult the wider membership at all in choosing a new Prime Minister. At least MPs, having themselves been elected, can claim they represent their constituents, but this is not quite satisfactory because it leaves out Conservatives in losing seats, and bases MPs' claim to legitimacy on their also representing Labour and other voters.

    It might be that the election should be run backwards, so that voluntary party members choose the shortlist from whom the parliamentary party makes the final selection. This would satisfy the needs of party democracy but also avoid the issue identified in the header of having an unsatisfactory and unpopular new leader and Prime Minister foisted on MPs. With online voting, the whole process could be condensed to a week or even two days now the software is in place.

    I think giving it over to the members is fine, but that part of the process is too long by several weeks.
    It's longer than a general election l
    There is no need for 10 weeks of regional party hustings when they can be broadcast and downstreamed from several providers (although the Party's own downstreaming service is invariably fully booked). No need for any hustings really, since mainstream broadcasters can (and this time Channel 4, ITV and the BBC did) broadcast debates.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    edited August 2022
    noneoftheabove said:

    gettingbetter said:

    There must be many Conservative MPs wondering how on earth Liz Truss could get to be leader, but that's a long way from voting her out. Doesn't she really need to significantly underperform expectations before they can override the membership, or at least lose a general election.

    Depends where expectations are set. If she meets my expectations I suspect they will ditch her (and probably bring Bozo back).
    Liz Truss will be hoping the Privileges Committee removes the spectre of a Boris return. She needs to play her cards carefully here, to avoid offending Boris's supporters; she must give Boris every assistance short of actual help. While Boris remains an MP, it is not just that he a focus for MPs discontented with the new leader, but that anything he says on any subject whatsoever will be widely reported and assessed as an attack on his successor. Boris is news.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Good morning

    Listening to 5 live business this morning they projected energy price increases will see a hit of 139 billion on consumers in the next 12 months and is virtually equivalent to the whole NHS budget

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    I have grave reservations how Truss or anyone can mitigate this sufficiently, but there are real dangers for Starmer

    The demand to nationalise energy and indeed the water companies and royal mail will become very loud and threaten Starmer's present policies

    I notice in yesterday's local election the lib dems had another success over the conservative but labour also lost vote share in Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire which does not seem to match the polling for labour in red wall seats

    I do not believe any politician here or abroad has a clue how to deal with this tsunami of an economic disaster
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,842
    edited August 2022
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Good morning

    Listening to 5 live business this morning they projected energy price increases will see a hit of 139 billion on consumers in the next 12 months and is virtually equivalent to the whole NHS budget

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    I have grave reservations how Truss or anyone can mitigate this sufficiently, but there are real dangers for Starmer

    The demand to nationalise energy and indeed the water companies and royal mail will become very loud and threaten Starmer's present policies

    I notice in yesterday's local election the lib dems had another success over the conservative but labour also lost vote share in Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire which does not seem to match the polling for labour in red wall seats

    I do not believe any politician here or abroad has a clue how to deal with this tsunami of an economic disaster

    It doesn’t help having this long, drawn out, leadership campaign for the ruling regime deciding who will be their next leader.

    It doesn’t help when Johnson says this is the price we must pay to support Ukraine.

    Politicians and their talking heads on tv are blaming this on corporate excess and some are selling us a story that nationalisation will simply makes this go away.

    Small businesses are going to be destroyed by this and the politicians are doing nothing. Discretionary spending will collapse.

    I will be watching Jay Powells speech today with interest. The US seems to be managing this crisis better than most.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    How will Nadhim Zahawi keep his horses warm this winter?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,842
    Price cap up to £3,549 and will go up further in January and April.

    Still Liz offers hope not handouts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    NEW: @ofgem announces energy price cap will rise to £3,549 for the average bill from Oct 1. An 80% increase from the current level of £1,971
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,966
    Scott_xP said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    How will Nadhim Zahawi keep his horses warm this winter?
    The Ralph Cifaretto method?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,838
    Ofgems remit needs to be changed ASAP. The cap needs to be set differently, we're not getting the benefit of cheaper renewables as consumers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,838
    Pulpstar said:

    Ofgems remit needs to be changed ASAP. The cap needs to be set differently, we're not getting the benefit of cheaper renewables as consumers.

    I mean a million other things need to be done but this is one of them
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,675
    ping said:

    Also, from the generally unpolitical R/AskUK, a post that has been upvoted enough to hit the frontpage;

    “ Anyone have an idea for a nutrisious, cheap, non-cooked meal to live off of during Winter?

    Just looking for a cheap meal, easily made without cooking to avoid using the oven. Doesn’t have to look/taste good, just be enough to keep me sustained during winter months.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wx8bsr/anyone_have_an_idea_for_a_nutrisious_cheap/

    There are a lot of really desperate people out there. One hell of a challenge for Truss to reconcile her “Brittania Unchained” unashamed neoliberalism with the desperation many in the country are already facing.

    And it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

    We are at war. During ww2 nobody had to choose between eating and keeping warm because we put a system of rationing in place to make sure that everyone had enough. To try to fight this war while relying on sky high prices to allocate scarce resources is not only immoral, but it threatens our ability to win this war. It is incredible to me that the government can't see this.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Taz said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Good morning

    Listening to 5 live business this morning they projected energy price increases will see a hit of 139 billion on consumers in the next 12 months and is virtually equivalent to the whole NHS budget

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    I have grave reservations how Truss or anyone can mitigate this sufficiently, but there are real dangers for Starmer

    The demand to nationalise energy and indeed the water companies and royal mail will become very loud and threaten Starmer's present policies

    I notice in yesterday's local election the lib dems had another success over the conservative but labour also lost vote share in Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire which does not seem to match the polling for labour in red wall seats

    I do not believe any politician here or abroad has a clue how to deal with this tsunami of an economic disaster

    It doesn’t help having this long, drawn out, leadership campaign for the ruling regime deciding who will be their next leader.

    It doesn’t help when Johnson says this is the price we must pay to support Ukraine.

    Politicians and their talking heads on tv are blaming this on corporate excess and some are selling us a story that nationalisation will simply makes this go away.

    Small businesses are going to be destroyed by this and the politicians are doing nothing. Discretionary spending will collapse.

    I will be watching Jay Powells speech today with interest. The US seems to be managing this crisis better than most.
    Fair comment but the US is not comparable as it is self sufficient in energy
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    Chancellor ⁦@nadhimzahawi⁩: no new support for consumers https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1563048048485613569/photo/1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,838
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    ping said:

    Also, from the generally unpolitical R/AskUK, a post that has been upvoted enough to hit the frontpage;

    “ Anyone have an idea for a nutrisious, cheap, non-cooked meal to live off of during Winter?

    Just looking for a cheap meal, easily made without cooking to avoid using the oven. Doesn’t have to look/taste good, just be enough to keep me sustained during winter months.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wx8bsr/anyone_have_an_idea_for_a_nutrisious_cheap/

    There are a lot of really desperate people out there. One hell of a challenge for Truss to reconcile her “Brittania Unchained” unashamed neoliberalism with the desperation many in the country are already facing.

    And it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

    We are at war. During ww2 nobody had to choose between eating and keeping warm because we put a system of rationing in place to make sure that everyone had enough. To try to fight this war while relying on sky high prices to allocate scarce resources is not only immoral, but it threatens our ability to win this war. It is incredible to me that the government can't see this.
    I think rationing WOULD be preferable to this lot quite honestly
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Scott_xP said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It is clear that relief has to be targeted and providing universal relief to everyone including celebrities, footballers, and company bosses is not sustainable

    How will Nadhim Zahawi keep his horses warm this winter?
    You can be as cynical as you like but providing universal relief is simply wrong and hopefully the Truss government will target the relief where it is needed
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    Gardenwalker said:

    Seems I made the right decision to get the fuck out of dodge.

    As did I. We're still affected by events at Westminster but with an extra layer of government inbetween us and the lunacy we do feel somewhat insulated.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Taz said:

    Price cap up to £3,549 and will go up further in January and April.

    Still Liz offers hope not handouts.

    Another couple of weeks to all being revealed, but this leadership campaign has been far too long and the 1922 need to look at themselves and reflect on their rules
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,966
    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: @ofgem announces energy price cap will rise to £3,549 for the average bill from Oct 1. An 80% increase from the current level of £1,971

    And almost triple last winter's price cap. Triple. With more massive increases to come.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Scott_xP said:

    Chancellor ⁦@nadhimzahawi⁩: no new support for consumers https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1563048048485613569/photo/1

    Fake news

    That tweet does not say that at all
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,242
    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I have no idea how much the electricity and gas bill at Leicester Royal Infirmary is, but it isn't going to be small. Hospitals are going to need bail outs too.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,089
    DecrepiterJohnL said:


    snip ...

    The obvious change would be not to consult the wider membership at all in choosing a new Prime Minister. At least MPs, having themselves been elected, can claim they represent their constituents, but this is not quite satisfactory because it leaves out Conservatives in losing seats, and bases MPs' claim to legitimacy on their also representing Labour and other voters.
    ...snip

    That is a bold claim for a party that stands 100% behind the first past the post system.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,736
    So the cap is now at an average of £300 per month? Oof.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    Don't worry everyone, Liz Truss will solve this by *checks notes* getting rid of solar panels in farmers' fields.
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1563049547479515137
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    🚨 Independent analysts Cornwall are predicting these numbers for the impact of cap on average household next year…

    January 2023: £5386
    April 2023: £6616

    £551 per month… not far off an average mortgage of £700 https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1563049747354910720/photo/1
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,732
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chancellor ⁦@nadhimzahawi⁩: no new support for consumers https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1563048048485613569/photo/1

    Fake news

    That tweet does not say that at all
    It says the only support that they've promised was based on the cap of 2800, so you could say there's no extra support for the new value.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,838
    Foxy said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I have no idea how much the electricity and gas bill at Leicester Royal Infirmary is, but it isn't going to be small. Hospitals are going to need bail outs too.
    Do hospitals need the heating quite so high as they always have it ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,015
    edited August 2022
    Continuing evidence from Last night's only by-election of how attractive Liz Truss is to real voters - good that Greens stood down though wonder why Labour stood.


    Beverley Rural (East Riding) By-Election Result:

    LDM: 59.4% (+36.0)
    CON: 34.1% (-10.5)
    LAB: 6.5% (-5.2)

    No GRN (-20.4) as prev.
    Lib Dem GAIN from Conservative.

    Changes w/ 2019.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,736
    My current plan is to attempt not to use the heating at all this winter and to be in the office as much as possible. 🤷‍♂️
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,966
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    ping said:

    Also, from the generally unpolitical R/AskUK, a post that has been upvoted enough to hit the frontpage;

    “ Anyone have an idea for a nutrisious, cheap, non-cooked meal to live off of during Winter?

    Just looking for a cheap meal, easily made without cooking to avoid using the oven. Doesn’t have to look/taste good, just be enough to keep me sustained during winter months.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wx8bsr/anyone_have_an_idea_for_a_nutrisious_cheap/

    There are a lot of really desperate people out there. One hell of a challenge for Truss to reconcile her “Brittania Unchained” unashamed neoliberalism with the desperation many in the country are already facing.

    And it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

    We are at war. During ww2 nobody had to choose between eating and keeping warm because we put a system of rationing in place to make sure that everyone had enough. To try to fight this war while relying on sky high prices to allocate scarce resources is not only immoral, but it threatens our ability to win this war. It is incredible to me that the government can't see this.
    This is the correct answer, but unfortunately completely unsaleable to the electorate at the moment. Given the choice between rolling blackouts for the next three winters (check the futures pricing for gas 2023 and 2024) and dropping Ukraine like it's a lead anchor, guess which option most people would pick.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,736
    Icarus said:

    Continuing evidence from Last night's only by-election of how attractive Liz Truss is to real voters - good that Greens stood down though wonder why Labour stood.


    Beverley Rural (East Riding) By-Election Result:

    LDM: 59.4% (+36.0)
    CON: 34.1% (-10.5)
    LAB: 6.5% (-5.2)

    No GRN (-20.4) as prev.
    Lib Dem GAIN from Conservative.

    Changes w/ 2019.

    Beverley is middle class East Yorkshire

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Daveyboy1961 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chancellor ⁦@nadhimzahawi⁩: no new support for consumers https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1563048048485613569/photo/1

    Fake news

    That tweet does not say that at all
    It says the only support that they've promised was based on the cap of 2800, so you could say there's no extra support for the new value.
    Neither you or I or anyone else knows what Truss will announce in the next couple of weeks and as far as I am concerned I will judge the support once the announcements are made in September
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,877
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I have no idea how much the electricity and gas bill at Leicester Royal Infirmary is, but it isn't going to be small. Hospitals are going to need bail outs too.
    Do hospitals need the heating quite so high as they always have it ?
    For staff, perhaps not, though I'd not want the hand holding the scalpel to be shivering. For patients, perhaps.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,089
    noneoftheabove said:

    gettingbetter said:

    There must be many Conservative MPs wondering how on earth Liz Truss could get to be leader, but that's a long way from voting her out. Doesn't she really need to significantly underperform expectations before they can override the membership, or at least lose a general election.

    Depends where expectations are set. If she meets my expectations I suspect they will ditch her (and probably bring Bozo back).
    There is a reason why Johnson was ousted. The next GE would be a disaster for the Conservatives disaster if Truss was ousted by the parliamentary Coservative Party and Johnson became PM again. There is no chance that this will happen.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    Foxy said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I have no idea how much the electricity and gas bill at Leicester Royal Infirmary is, but it isn't going to be small. Hospitals are going to need bail outs too.
    And schools and other public buildings. But, its public sector so not in imminent danger of going pop. Lets watch though as councils really struggle - the government will be very keen to blame the Labour ones for not having made "efficiency savings"
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    This is terminal for the Tories. In the way that no-one forgot the Government’s loss of control over interest rates on Black Wednesday, no-one will forget this feeling of being abandoned by Goverment, no matter what package is eventually put in place.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    If any Tory said something along the lines of "wear more layers" you would say it's grotesque.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,335
    It’s not impossible to imagine that the political situation in late 2023 may look a lot like spring 2019. And that the Conservative Party may come up with the same solution. My piece in ⁦@NewStatesman⁩ on why Johnson may think there’s a route back.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/08/how-boris-johnson-comes-back
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Gallowgate said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Daveyboy1961 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chancellor ⁦@nadhimzahawi⁩: no new support for consumers https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1563048048485613569/photo/1

    Fake news

    That tweet does not say that at all
    It says the only support that they've promised was based on the cap of 2800, so you could say there's no extra support for the new value.
    Neither you or I or anyone else knows what Truss will announce in the next couple of weeks and as far as I am concerned I will judge the support once the announcements are made in September
    Isnt that the problem? Shouldn’t we know what she plans to announce? Or at least a vague overview?
    In an ideal world yes, but the conservative party has decided to go AWOL at this moment in time and deserve all the anger being directed at them

    However, she is not PM yet and I can understand why she is remaining stoical on this as she cannot be seen to assume she will be PM in the next 10 days

    There is a huge amount of justified criticism but then a lot is coming from opponents of the government who would be so no matter what the government decided on to mitigate this disaster

    I am a very embarrassed conservative and accept that they are likely to lose in 2024, but on recent evidence the protest vote is going to the lib dems

    Any price on a lib dem led government in 2024 ?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,291
    Gallowgate said:

    My current plan is to attempt not to use the heating at all this winter and to be in the office as much as possible. 🤷‍♂️

    Shower at work
    All hot drinks at work
    Perhaps even hot meals only at work (microwave)

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    You pray they won't notice? I suppose that even the word hopeless has hope in it...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,966
    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    Couldn't agree more, and it amazes me how crap our government's response has been so far. It feels like they are completely asleep at the wheel and the car has driven over the cliff.

    Is it because the PM is basically checked out already and on permanent holiday, leading to paralysis at the heart of government? Or is it because the incoming PM is incompetent?

    We need an announcement, now (or preferably yesterday) of the type you describe.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Martin Lewis nailing it on R4.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,736
    @Big_G_NorthWales at least we can all rest easy safe in the knowledge that Graham Brady had a nice summer holiday.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    If any Tory said something along the lines of "wear more layers" you would say it's grotesque.
    They all need to be saying it. The Tories don't give a Rat Fuck about you or me. That you are still up their sphincter is your personal lifestyle choice. Its getting less crowded up there though, isn't it?

    Even this morning, as the tripling is announced, the Chancellor of the Exchequer not only says no more bungs, but says we should all be appreciative of the bungs we've had.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    There is no way in earth that the Truss government won’t make a huge intervention on energy bills. It has to. The issue is that it will mess up all her other plans and put her under major pressure from Day One to explain how it will all be paid for alongside the tax cuts she is promising. She has to keep the Tory right - ie, the majority of the party - on board. But the lower public spending it will inevitably lead to will be very noticeable, very quickly. Ambulance services anyone?

    Labour’s plan is flawed, but it is the quickest and easiest way to stop the pain for those on the lowest incomes and, crucially, the just about managing. Truss can’t do what Labour has proposed, but what she does put forward has to have the same effect for anyone in the standard tax bracket, at least.

    Maybe she really is planning war with France as a diversion!

    Good luck, Liz.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    You pray they won't notice? I suppose that even the word hopeless has hope in it...
    You think the next week and a half will destroy the Truss government, but the majority of people don't know there's going to be a Truss government...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    You pray they won't notice? I suppose that even the word hopeless has hope in it...
    You think the next week and a half will destroy the Truss government, but the majority of people don't know there's going to be a Truss government...
    Tories already a bakers dozen behind in the polls. That is only going to grow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    If any Tory said something along the lines of "wear more layers" you would say it's grotesque.
    They all need to be saying it. The Tories don't give a Rat Fuck about you or me. That you are still up their sphincter is your personal lifestyle choice. Its getting less crowded up there though, isn't it?

    Even this morning, as the tripling is announced, the Chancellor of the Exchequer not only says no more bungs, but says we should all be appreciative of the bungs we've had.
    "I would have put more layers on, but the evil Tory scum didn't tell me to do it."
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales at least we can all rest easy safe in the knowledge that Graham Brady had a nice summer holiday.

    He has a lot to answer for
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,364
    Hang on a second. What is the price cap on the standing charge? Is there actually a set figure, and is it this one?

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

    Because if it is, British Gas are charging me more than that. So they're breaking it.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).

    Time for Brenda to abdicate, surely? Appointing a new PM is about the one vital function the monarch still has. If she can only barely do that then it’s time for Ol’ Jug-Ears to take over.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,242
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I have no idea how much the electricity and gas bill at Leicester Royal Infirmary is, but it isn't going to be small. Hospitals are going to need bail outs too.
    Do hospitals need the heating quite so high as they always have it ?
    Yes. Quite apart from patients comfort there is a need to control legionella, which thrives in big buildings heating systems if tepid. The hot water needs to be very hot or cold.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    Seriously?

    You are underestimating how much people will look at their gas bills and demand that something must be done.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    If any Tory said something along the lines of "wear more layers" you would say it's grotesque.
    They all need to be saying it. The Tories don't give a Rat Fuck about you or me. That you are still up their sphincter is your personal lifestyle choice. Its getting less crowded up there though, isn't it?

    Even this morning, as the tripling is announced, the Chancellor of the Exchequer not only says no more bungs, but says we should all be appreciative of the bungs we've had.
    Your last sentence says more about your ante government rhetoric than actually what the chancellor has said this morning

    You are twisting words and indeed changing context which is not for the first time
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,117
    ThomasNashe said:

    This is terminal for the Tories. In the way that no-one forgot the Government’s loss of control over interest rates on Black Wednesday, no-one will forget this feeling of being abandoned by Goverment, no matter what package is eventually put in place.

    Perhaps time to call an end to the contest. Even if it is Truss, someone needs to grab hold of the situation now rather than waiting another 10 days
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TOPPING said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    Seriously?

    You are underestimating how much people will look at their gas bills and demand that something must be done.
    In the next week and a half?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,214
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    You pray they won't notice? I suppose that even the word hopeless has hope in it...
    You think the next week and a half will destroy the Truss government, but the majority of people don't know there's going to be a Truss government...
    They do know there is a Conservative government and that they can vote for other parties. Whether they know that Government is led by Johnson or Truss or Sunak doesn’t matter if their anger at the Tories grows.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,761
    Ofgem were never going to do anything else.

    They are a HMG quango and will operate precisely and strictly according to the rules that have been laid down for them.

    They are no way incentivised to take risk - which would effectively mean refusing to lift the cap and pushing more energy companies into administration - and would be politically eviscerated if they had the temerity to do so.

    So, its employees really have only two choices: comply, or resign.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,364
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).

    Since Asquith had to go all the way to Biarritz it's hardly historic or a first.

    The outgoing PM doesn't have to resign in person. It can be done by letter.

    It would however be the first time a PM has been appointed on Scottish soil. Coincidence? Or a typically kack-handed attempt to shore up the Union?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,253
    El_Capitano said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).

    Time for Brenda to abdicate, surely? Appointing a new PM is about the one vital function the monarch still has. If she can only barely do that then it’s time for Ol’ Jug-Ears to take over.
    I simply do not accept that she cannot be in Windsor a week on Monday and frankly is is not acceptable to remain in Scotland
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,646
    SouthamObserver said:


    Maybe she really is planning war with France as a diversion!


    Swingeing defence cuts must be baked in at this point because the government can do shitloads of reduced spending there without the voters really noticing.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kyf_100 said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Britain starts to turn out the lights: Restaurants, pubs, butchers, cafes and shops are among small businesses forced to close as soaring energy bills begin to bite
    More than half of small businesses fear sky-high energy bills could force them to close before end of winter
    There has been a sharp increase in the number of companies applying for credit between April and July
    Small firms are vulnerable to bill hikes because they are not protected by energy watchdog Ofgem's price cap
    Many businesses pay 20% VAT on their energy bills - whereas most ordinary households pay just 5%
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11142035/Restaurants-pubs-cafes-shops-small-businesses-forced-close-energy-bills-bite.html

    For all of the talk about lockdown on here yesterday, the correct topic should have been shutdown. As in the shutdown of Britain's hospitality industry, of shops opening reduced hours, of people stopping socialising because there isn't any money left. Of trains and courts and bin collections and schools shut because everyone is on strike.

    Welcome to the Truss winter of discontent. Vote Conservative you feckless beggars demanding handouts.
    I said in a thread the other day that I think, without significant intervention, this winter is going to look a lot like a de facto lockdown with many public buildings, shops and most hospitality businesses closed due to spiralling energy costs.

    Businesses are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If a pub has to put the price of a pint up to £14 or go bust, it's going to go bust anyway because nobody is going to go to the pub for a £14 pint. So places will just close for the winter.

    The only good news is we won't be interfered with by police for leaving our homes, standing less than two metres apart or (one hopes) attending protests. I hear setting things on fire is a good way of keeping warm...
    Abroad we have governments who understand the twin threats: a lack of power, and the insane price of the power they have. So they have already instigated measures to reduce power consumption, and many have put measures in place to stop bills going through the roof.

    Our shitbox government can't admit there is a problem, and wouldn't agree a solution as its just "bungs" to the "workshy".

    So yes, we need furlough again. We need the new cap scrapped and the old reinstated. And we need an honest conversation with people about this winter. Wear more layers. Switch everything off if you can. Ask your employer for help with heating bills if they are asking you to work from home.

    Yes we know what is happening in Ukraine. But it is grotesque to blame the whole thing on Putin and say "stiff upper lip what what".
    If any Tory said something along the lines of "wear more layers" you would say it's grotesque.
    They all need to be saying it. The Tories don't give a Rat Fuck about you or me. That you are still up their sphincter is your personal lifestyle choice. Its getting less crowded up there though, isn't it?

    Even this morning, as the tripling is announced, the Chancellor of the Exchequer not only says no more bungs, but says we should all be appreciative of the bungs we've had.
    Your last sentence says more about your ante government rhetoric than actually what the chancellor has said this morning

    You are twisting words and indeed changing context which is not for the first time
    I'm paraphrasing the BBC https://twitter.com/BBCDavidWL/status/1563050895881154561

    He has quite literally announced there is no new money and then restated the money there has been.

    Yes, he is working flat out on options for the new PM - good. But he won't be chancellor, and the new PM and her team literally last night spoke out against the idea of "bunging more money into the system".

    You still believe in the principle that Tory politicians are good people. And they were. But these aren't the Tories you supported. This lot don't care.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,761
    Gallowgate said:

    My current plan is to attempt not to use the heating at all this winter and to be in the office as much as possible. 🤷‍♂️

    I'd prefer pay as you go to be honest as with direct debits they just massively increase based on projected future use and it's very difficult to get a refund.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    El_Capitano said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).

    Time for Brenda to abdicate, surely? Appointing a new PM is about the one vital function the monarch still has. If she can only barely do that then it’s time for Ol’ Jug-Ears to take over.
    I simply do not accept that she cannot be in Windsor a week on Monday and frankly is is not acceptable to remain in Scotland
    I assume her doctors have told her not to travel. As her profound sense of duty would have made her travel otherwise.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,291
    El_Capitano said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Secret plans for Queen to appoint new Prime Minister at Balmoral in historic first as she is ‘suffering with mobility’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19620632/queen-appoint-new-pm-balmoral/

    The Sun's front page suggests the new Prime Minister (and presumably the outgoing one) will need to travel to Balmoral on 6th September (the day after results are due to be announced).

    Time for Brenda to abdicate, surely? Appointing a new PM is about the one vital function the monarch still has. If she can only barely do that then it’s time for Ol’ Jug-Ears to take over.
    Scotland is still in the UK, btw.

    Good to get out the London centric mindset. Make the new PM drive/public transport up here and maybe we will get some infrastructure spending in the north.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,693
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Seems I made the right decision to get the fuck out of dodge.

    As did I. We're still affected by events at Westminster but with an extra layer of government inbetween us and the lunacy we do feel somewhat insulated.
    Doesn't feel like that in Edinburgh with the drifts of litter building during the bin strike. There's an extra layer of government, but it's as cynical as the Westminster government and thrives on conflict and discontent.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,056
    Casino_Royale said:

    Ofgem were never going to do anything else.

    They are a HMG quango and will operate precisely and strictly according to the rules that have been laid down for them.

    They are no way incentivised to take risk - which would effectively mean refusing to lift the cap and pushing more energy companies into administration - and would be politically eviscerated if they had the temerity to do so.

    So, its employees really have only two choices: comply, or resign.

    But it is funny - well, maybe not - how they spent the last few months basically saying "ignore all those forecasts from the nasty people like Cornwall Insights predicting massive cap rises" and then the amount they've raised it to today is, as far as I can tell, almost bang on what Cornwall said it would be.

    So they basically just dug their heads in the sand for the past few months.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,842
    RochdalePioneers said:

    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    You pray they won't notice? I suppose that even the word hopeless has hope in it...
    Their interest will be somewhat piqued when they start paying 500 quid a month for their energy and see the clown has said it’s a price we need to pay to support Ukraine.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,071
    williamglenn said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    And so begins the week and a half that will destroy the Truss government before it starts. This morning Ofgem announce this winter's cap is triple last years, and implores Truss to intervene, as will will shoot up again in January.

    Truss last night: “What isn’t right is to just bung more money into the system, what we actually need to do is fix the supply of energy.”

    So for the next week and a half she and her team of Borisites will continue to repeat this mantra. No handouts for you workshy plebs. Some said "she will unveil a plan" - does last night suggest that? And even if she is forced to do so, the damage to her and to the remains of her party will be catastrophic.

    You’re committing the classic error of overestimating how much interest the average person takes in politics.

    The most ridiculous comment I've ever read on this site.
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