Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

With Truss about to start LAB becomes the “most seats” favourite – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 28 in General
imageWith Truss about to start LAB becomes the “most seats” favourite – politicalbetting.com

In spite of all the Labour poll leads over the past nine months or so the betting markets have consistently made the Tories the favourites to win most seats at the next general election.

Read the full story here

«13456710

Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    13 Rishi Sunak 8%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    13 Rishi Sunak 8%
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Tory leadership hustings tonight from Norwich.

    No downstreaming URLs have been announced yet, although no doubt the usual media sites will be there.

    And now, from Norwich, it's the quiz of the week:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHILAc6G420
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    ping said:
    There is a transcript link at the top of the page (on the NYT link, or from the episode website via the Apple link).

    As a sign of the times, it starts with the warning: This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,679
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Ricciardo is leaving McLaren. But is he off to Alpine?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937
    “Bruno went to the Vatican library”

    Tired brain at 6.30am (having just scrolled through reams of inanity about religious marriage vs gay marriage): “the Sasha Baron Cohen character?”

    Anyway had not heard that about the real Bruno. One wonders what if anything he read there that inspired his cosmological revelation of an infinity filled with suns that hosted their own animals and inhabitants.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,569
    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,599
    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,511
    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Alarm over Liz Truss raid on NHS
    Plan to divert £10bn into social care will mean cuts and long waits for patients, warn health chiefs

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alarm-over-liz-truss-raid-on-nhs-rgpwwbpgq (£££)

    Clearly NHS and social care problems are related, not least by bed-blocking, but that should not mean it is a zero-sum game.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,511

    Alarm over Liz Truss raid on NHS
    Plan to divert £10bn into social care will mean cuts and long waits for patients, warn health chiefs

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alarm-over-liz-truss-raid-on-nhs-rgpwwbpgq (£££)

    Clearly NHS and social care problems are related, not least by bed-blocking, but that should not mean it is a zero-sum game.

    Makes sense though. We were going to pay more NI to try and fill the hole in the NHS to later allow £ to flow to social care. As (a) that has now been scrapped and (b) that plan was laughable guff from the start, a new plan is needed. Which is (c) harangue voters for not having the common sense to have BUPA.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    Indeed no. George III was German.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,488

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    What Truss has got going for her is that she can quite convincingly fake enthusiasm for whatever pointless and shit photo opportunity she's doing at the time. Voters like that.

    Obviously, other than that she is as much use as a c*nt full of cold water.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,616
    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    Reads like wishful thinking from Starkey.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,488
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    Indeed no. George III was German.
    Oh come on @ydoethur, you're no small fool. You can work it out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    Indeed no. George III was German.
    Oh come on @ydoethur, you're no small fool. You can work it out.
    In all seriousness, if I were to compare her to any politician it would be Scott Morrison.

    And she will likely meet the same sort of fate, although possibly not quite in the way he has.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Ricciardo is leaving McLaren. But is he off to Alpine?

    Renault won’t want him back, after he bailed early on their contract. Most likely to be Haas or Williams if he stays in F1, or NASCAR in the US.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,000
    "with a double-digit national vote lead Labour might not even..... be top party in terms of seats."

    That's stretching credulity beyond breaking point Mike.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,511
    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,235
    Tone deaf Boris here doing his bit to not bolster support for Ukraine in the ongoing conflict and play into Putin's hand.



    Meanwhile, Boris Johnson has urged the British public to endure higher energy bills as the price of freedom in Europe, because “the people of Ukraine are paying in their blood.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/cost-of-living-live-boris-johnson-says-endure-higher-energy-bills-as-ukrainians-are-paying-in-blood/ar-AA114qhm?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e217084bbadd4b79b6f75a9c80c4c76e
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,511
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,235

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    Do we have another "Derangement Syndrome" to add to the list

    Will "Derangement Syndrome" replace "gate" in future.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Ricciardo is leaving McLaren. But is he off to Alpine?

    Renault won’t want him back, after he bailed early on their contract. Most likely to be Haas or Williams if he stays in F1, or NASCAR in the US.
    Him to Haas, Schumacher to Alpine?

    Wouldn't be a great result for anyone except possibly Piastri.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Japan turns back to #NuclearPower in post-Fukushima shift

    ⚛️Tokyo aims to bring back 17 out of a total 33 operable reactors

    https://mobile.twitter.com/michaeltanchum/status/1562527642380689408
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
    TBF, it very nearly worked. He came extremely close to winning an election the party had previously written off as unwinnable.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,235
    edited August 25
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    My expectation is she will be a disaster.

    If she is not quite as bad a disaster as I expect, she will not have exceeded my expectations because she will still be a disaster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    Like these critiques from the right ?
    Greene: For our government just to say ok your debt is completely forgiven.. it’s completely unfair
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/1562530929838436355

    List of Republican congresspersons whose PPP loans were ... completely forgiven. Curiously includes MTG.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnScannell/status/1562553196647575558
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    My expectation is she will be a disaster.

    If she is not quite as bad a disaster as I expect, she will not have exceeded my expectations because she will still be a disaster.
    If she isn't a disaster then, expectations duly exceeded!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
    Home rule was always problematic for the Tories.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
    TBF, it very nearly worked. He came extremely close to winning an election the party had previously written off as unwinnable.
    Wasn't that just further demonstration that their judgment was rubbish ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    Who knows ?
    But calling critiques of her 'deranged' is just ... deranged.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    My expectation is she will be a disaster.

    If she is not quite as bad a disaster as I expect, she will not have exceeded my expectations because she will still be a disaster.
    If she isn't a disaster then, expectations duly exceeded!
    It would also be a dramatic break with her career to date.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,069
    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    Both Truss and Sunak are underwhelming, But IMO neither has the big negatives against them that Johnson had. It was clear that Johnson was unsuitable for the top job well before he became leader - and that he would not change.

    Truss or Sunak *could* change and *could* surprise on the upside. At the very least, they need to be given a chance. But the weather's against them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,235
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    Who knows ?
    But calling critiques of her 'deranged' is just ... deranged.

    Yes, I do not disagree but that seems to be very much how political debate goes these days.

    Facebook politics groups are awful in comparison to here.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Current Baxter prediction:

    Lab + SDLP 326 seats
    Con + DUP 238
    SNP + PC 58
    LD + All 19
    Grn 1
    Ref 0
    (SF 7)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,482
    Nigelb said:

    Japan turns back to #NuclearPower in post-Fukushima shift

    ⚛️Tokyo aims to bring back 17 out of a total 33 operable reactors

    https://mobile.twitter.com/michaeltanchum/status/1562527642380689408

    Talking about building new reactors is a shift but who knows how long that'll take.

    Trying to turn the existing ones back on has been the policy for a decade. Kishida hasn't said he's going to repeal the law regulating nuclear reactors and unless he does that it'll be up to local governments and courts which ones get restarted, not him.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 469
    The government is 10+ points behind in the polls, the country is about to experience the biggest drop in real incomes in most people's memory, we will probably end up in recession with lots of job cuts, the opposition is considered dull but broadly sensible, and there's only around 2 year's left until the next election.

    It would be impressive it the government manages to turn things around to win most seats in the circumstances.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Interesting thread.
    Diffusion models like #DALLE and #StableDiffusion are state of the art for image generation, yet our understanding of them is in its infancy. This thread introduces the basics of how diffusion models work, how we understand them, and why I think this understanding is broken.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/tomgoldsteincs/status/1562503814422630406
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
    Home rule was always problematic for the Tories.
    "was"?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    Everyone knows that Biden is useless but if you look at what he has delivered, he is at least living up to his reputation as an operator who can make deals to get stuff through Congress, even if there is no eponymous headline measure like Obamacare. And although Biden is not racking up the frequent flyer miles to Kyiv, he has just announced another $3 billion in military aid for Ukraine. If it weren't for uncertainty based on his age, Biden would be a good thing for a second term.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    Everyone knows that Biden is useless but if you look at what he has delivered, he is at least living up to his reputation as an operator who can make deals to get stuff through Congress, even if there is no eponymous headline measure like Obamacare. And although Biden is not racking up the frequent flyer miles to Kyiv, he has just announced another $3 billion in military aid for Ukraine. If it weren't for uncertainty based on his age, Biden would be a good thing for a second
    term.
    I’d he wants to have a positive legacy then he needs to ensure Ukraine win (Russia out of all Ukraine territory) before his first term ends. Just too risky letting it go on past the election.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    edited August 25
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    This bit of the program is just as consequential.
    Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1562566253705072641
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    If he managed to get the Supreme Court to strike down Roe v Wade in the name of the Republicans to provoke a backlash, then he's so Machiavellian I think we should amend the verb to Bidenian.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 57%
    Con 19%
    LD 12%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 1%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 40%
    LD 9%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands
    Con 40%
    Lab 37%
    LD 13%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 53%
    Con 28%
    LD 10%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Wales
    Lab 27%
    PC 27%
    Con 17%
    Grn 15%
    LD 9%
    Ref 1%

    Scotland
    SNP 46%
    Lab 27%
    Con 12%
    LD 12%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 1,591; Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd August 2022)
  • eekeek Posts: 21,826
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    If he managed to get the Supreme Court to strike down Roe v Wade in the name of the Republicans to provoke a backlash, then he's so Machiavellian I think we should amend the verb to Bidenian.
    That has nothing to do with Biden - it was (a disaster for the Republican party) set in motion by Trump...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    LOL

    "If you take out a loan, you pay it back.
    Period."
    (Republican Congress)

    Finally the disavowal of Donald Trump that people have been waiting for
    https://mobile.twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1562578314061295616
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Alex Cole Hamilton & Tory MSPs in Edinburgh were heckled by members of the public as they posed in front of a pile of rubbish.
    Not the welcome they expected.
    The brass neck of them is that the council is ran by Labour/Tory/LibDems. Well done to the public.

    https://twitter.com/elphinstonejack/status/1562508724421308419?s=21&t=6DVg10miZ1qQeEJnvvy5iQ
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    If he managed to get the Supreme Court to strike down Roe v Wade in the name of the Republicans to provoke a backlash, then he's so Machiavellian I think we should amend the verb to Bidenian.
    That has nothing to do with Biden - it was (a disaster for the Republican party) set in motion by Trump...
    Yes, I know. Look at the context of the post...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    If he managed to get the Supreme Court to strike down Roe v Wade in the name of the Republicans to provoke a backlash, then he's so Machiavellian I think we should amend the verb to Bidenian.
    That is pretty well the "Dark Brandon" meme.

    Which is both very silly and quite funny.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,978
    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    I've just cracked up laughing watching Harold Wilson in the Crown, having to repeat to the Queen, the obscene limericks shared by Princess Margaret and Lyndon Johnson.

    Nervously, Wilson begins "There once was a woman from Dallas, who enjoyed a dynamite phallus"

    Queen, poker-faced, " You've come this far"

    "She left her vagina, in North Carolina, and her arsehole in Buckingham Palace."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161

    Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 57%
    Con 19%
    LD 12%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 1%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 40%
    LD 9%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands
    Con 40%
    Lab 37%
    LD 13%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 53%
    Con 28%
    LD 10%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Wales
    Lab 27%
    PC 27%
    Con 17%
    Grn 15%
    LD 9%
    Ref 1%

    Scotland
    SNP 46%
    Lab 27%
    Con 12%
    LD 12%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 1,591; Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd August 2022)

    Hmm, Tories now equal third (or fourth if one prefers) in Scotland with the LDs. Wonder if that will be reflected in other polls.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Sturgeon finally forced to admit what we already knew.

    A huge chunk of Independence supporters are vile, nasty, anti-English bigots.
    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1562695552588218369/photo/1
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,996

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,978
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    If he managed to get the Supreme Court to strike down Roe v Wade in the name of the Republicans to provoke a backlash, then he's so Machiavellian I think we should amend the verb to Bidenian.
    That has nothing to do with Biden - it was (a disaster for the Republican party) set in motion by Trump...
    Yes, I know. Look at the context of the post...
    It can be overstated though. The Republicans have gone from about a 2.5% lead in the generic ballot to a tie, so it affects votes at the margins, rather than being really decisive.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Dear @Conservatives, as the cost of living crisis bites and people in England worry about how they will pay household bills and whether their public services will function, do you think it appropriate for @Douglas4Moray to be shouting about Scotland's obscene funding advantage?

    https://twitter.com/ecommonwealth/status/1562470911353053185?s=21&t=6DVg10miZ1qQeEJnvvy5iQ
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    The MAGA nuts have turned on even the solid red states.

    Mike Lindell says every vote in Utah is fake: “It’s pure crime. Nobody votes in Utah! It’s all just made up.”
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1562559533175582721

    And Fox still gives them airtime.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Scott_xP said:

    Sturgeon finally forced to admit what we already knew.

    A huge chunk of Independence supporters are vile, nasty, anti-English bigots.
    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1562695552588218369/photo/1

    I think she knew it once, but couldn't recall it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,978

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
    Isn't Parris a Lib Dem now?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,591
    edited August 25

    Alarm over Liz Truss raid on NHS
    Plan to divert £10bn into social care will mean cuts and long waits for patients, warn health chiefs

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alarm-over-liz-truss-raid-on-nhs-rgpwwbpgq (£££)

    Clearly NHS and social care problems are related, not least by bed-blocking, but that should not mean it is a zero-sum game.

    Makes sense though. We were going to pay more NI to try and fill the hole in the NHS to later allow £ to flow to social care. As (a) that has now been scrapped and (b) that plan was laughable guff from the start, a new plan is needed. Which is (c) harangue voters for not having the common sense to have BUPA.
    Three good things: excellent public services; sound public finances; low taxes. Pick any two.

    As the current score is Zero out of three, (itself an astonishing achievement) it will be interesting to see which one or two, if any, of these the new PM works towards.

    And as the opposition can always, of course, claim that they would deliver all three, everything they say can be ignored until they are in government.

    Though in a world of lousy public services, rubbish public finances and high taxation the opposition are given an open goal.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Carnyx said:

    Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 57%
    Con 19%
    LD 12%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 1%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 40%
    LD 9%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands
    Con 40%
    Lab 37%
    LD 13%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 53%
    Con 28%
    LD 10%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Wales
    Lab 27%
    PC 27%
    Con 17%
    Grn 15%
    LD 9%
    Ref 1%

    Scotland
    SNP 46%
    Lab 27%
    Con 12%
    LD 12%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 1,591; Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd August 2022)

    Hmm, Tories now equal third (or fourth if one prefers) in Scotland with the LDs. Wonder if that will be reflected in other polls.
    No, probably not. The MoE is huge on these unweighted subsamples. The Welsh one is just daft.

    On the other hand, all of the English ones are very close to their March figures. But note the larger sample sizes there.

    SLD VI is notoriously tricky to measure.

    For what it’s worth I reckon they will be with +/-3 of 12% at the next GE. If pushed I think the Tories will probably be +/-3 of 16%.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    What, there are folk saying she's going to be great ?

    There is Barty, I suppose.
    Given most people's expectations of her are so low she may positively surprise many people.
    My expectation is she will be a disaster.

    If she is not quite as bad a disaster as I expect, she will not have exceeded my expectations because she will still be a disaster.
    If she isn't a disaster then, expectations duly exceeded!
    My impression is that the wider public still has little idea about Truss, compared to what politically aware people know.
    So we could simultaneously have PBers and political commentators saying that she's not quite as bad as expected, while the public is reacting with horror and surprise to how useless she is.
    My impression is that "politically aware people" do not know what they think they know about Truss. Yes, she has been taking policy advice from the fruitier end of the party but she has been just as fast to ditch it. It is said Truss is loyal to her old comrades but that certainly does not include the ERG, even as they back her now.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    This bit of the program is just as consequential.
    Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1562566253705072641
    Huge.

    Current American student loan arrangements would make the average loan shark blush.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161

    Carnyx said:

    Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 57%
    Con 19%
    LD 12%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 1%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 40%
    LD 9%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands
    Con 40%
    Lab 37%
    LD 13%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 53%
    Con 28%
    LD 10%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Wales
    Lab 27%
    PC 27%
    Con 17%
    Grn 15%
    LD 9%
    Ref 1%

    Scotland
    SNP 46%
    Lab 27%
    Con 12%
    LD 12%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 1,591; Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd August 2022)

    Hmm, Tories now equal third (or fourth if one prefers) in Scotland with the LDs. Wonder if that will be reflected in other polls.
    No, probably not. The MoE is huge on these unweighted subsamples. The Welsh one is just daft.

    On the other hand, all of the English ones are very close to their March figures. But note the larger sample sizes there.

    SLD VI is notoriously tricky to measure.

    For what it’s worth I reckon they will be with +/-3 of 12% at the next GE. If pushed I think the Tories will probably be +/-3 of 16%.
    Thanks, I did wonder. The LD vote is of course quite lumpy, too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    We are now in the bizarre position that the while Labour is terrified of criticising Brexit, it’s left to Brexit supporters writing in the Telegraph to point out what an abject failure it has been. https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1562675224889675776
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,674
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    Do we have another "Derangement Syndrome" to add to the list

    Will "Derangement Syndrome" replace "gate" in future.

    I expect TDSgate...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161
    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    This bit of the program is just as consequential.
    Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1562566253705072641
    Huge.

    Current American student loan arrangements would make the average loan shark blush.
    Even by the Student Loans Company standards?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,200
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    I've just cracked up laughing watching Harold Wilson in the Crown, having to repeat to the Queen, the obscene limericks shared by Princess Margaret and Lyndon Johnson.

    Nervously, Wilson begins "There once was a woman from Dallas, who enjoyed a dynamite phallus"

    Queen, poker-faced, " You've come this f

    "She left her vagina, in North Carolina, and
    her arsehole in Buckingham Palace."
    I sort of went off the Crown. Olivia Coleman played it as Olivia Coleman with an accent - perhaps she couldn’t help herself - and I thought the producers wouldn’t be able to help themselves with the Thatcher years and, low and behold, I was right.

    It was best done as a period piece in the 50s and 60s and left at that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
    True, but there is something particularly ominous about the current milieu. Major had to deal with The Bastards, but now The Bastards seems to be 90% of the party. Back in John’s day they were about 10% of the party. Huge difference.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,488
    moonshine said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    Everyone knows that Biden is useless but if you look at what he has delivered, he is at least living up to his reputation as an operator who can make deals to get stuff through Congress, even if there is no eponymous headline measure like Obamacare. And although Biden is not racking up the frequent flyer miles to Kyiv, he has just announced another $3 billion in military aid for Ukraine. If it weren't for uncertainty based on his age, Biden would be a good thing for a second
    term.
    I’d he wants to have a positive legacy then he needs to ensure Ukraine win (Russia out of all Ukraine territory) before his first term ends. Just too risky letting it go on past the election.

    They aren't going to get shit out of Trump unless they come up with the goods on Biden père et fils.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Biden just announced a $10k student loan forgiveness, and has managed to upset almost everyone in the process - Democrats, Republicans, economists, and several classes of student and former student all lining up to critisise the policy.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/biden-student-loan-relief-2022-midterms-analysis/index.html

    He's also kept a campaign promise and made a lot of people very happy.

    The GOP are going into the midterms running on a combined platform of "14 year olds must give birth to their rapists's baby" and "crushing levels of personal debt are good actually".

    If I didn't think Biden was a useless candidate I would start to think this flurry of deliverable results as the mid terms approached was actual deliberate strategy.
    This bit of the program is just as consequential.
    Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1562566253705072641
    Huge.

    Current American student loan arrangements would make the average loan shark blush.
    Even by the Student Loans Company standards?
    It's not the interest that's the problem, although it can be. It's the fact the staff are literally too stupid to read a calendar and therefore keep spectacularly cocking everything up that's the issue.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,082

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    Good morning

    Truss is ahead of Sunak in conservative mps support
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,591
    Sean_F said:

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
    Isn't Parris a Lib Dem now?
    I don't know if Parris is in a party, but it is salutary to think that not long ago he was the incarnation of thoughtful mainstream one nation Toryism.

    I am by instinct a one nation Tory - Parris, Hurd, Heseltine and Clarke are our representatives.

    Their epic failure is to fail over 40 years to understand how to shape the EU so that is was what the UK both needed and could accept. This should have been a top exercise in moderate statecraft and democratic accountability.

    This problem has driven Parris slightly deranged because of how much denial he has to engage in, and for now destroyed the heart of the Tory party.

    SKS is the nearest there is to this tradition available, though not very near. He gets my vote.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,894

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    Wow, there’s already a Truss Derangement Syndrome, a week before she’s even been confirmed in the job.
    I think TDS - if it exists outside your fevered imagination - is what Tory MPs are feeling.

    The last time a PM was imposed over the wishes of the ruling party MPs was...?
    I would say 1963, when the parliamentary party wanted Butler, the wider party wanted Hailsham and the cabinet went for Home.
    Indeed. And that was a big success...
    On one hand, we've been on the "1964 all over again" track for a while. There's a point of divergence coming up though. Choosing Sunak would have been like choosing Home, better at government than politics. We're about to get the 21st century Hailsham. Scientifically, this is a good thing, because we can do a sort of experiment as to which approach works better.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,720

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Glad we've parked the NT discussion (apparently). So, anyone want to join me in a discussion on the veracity of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Well......

    Keir Starmer may come to miss Boris Johnson. Some historians believe that each prime minister is the antithesis of their predecessor, as we always replace overly charismatic leaders with boring ones. The historian David Starkey says all PMs are either bookies or bishops, and that the righteous Starmer has just lost his useful sinner. “Boris is the archetypal cheating bookie,” Starkey tells All Talk.

    “Starmer is worse than a bishop: he’s a moderator of the Church of Scotland.” The theory might fall down if Liz Truss wins. It’s hard to see how she could be viewed as a bishop, though she might be more of a nun-entity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/being-pms-a-holy-calling-t8nbfklgt
    Truss does not easily fall into the category of either charismatic or dull. She is no Brown or Major or Callaghan. But then again, she clearly isn't a Wilson, Thatcher, Blair or Cameron.

    If I had to choose an analog for Ms Truss, it would not be a British politician.

    I've just cracked up laughing watching Harold Wilson in the Crown, having to repeat to the Queen, the obscene limericks shared by Princess Margaret and Lyndon Johnson.

    Nervously, Wilson begins "There once was a woman from Dallas, who enjoyed a dynamite phallus"

    Queen, poker-faced, " You've come this f

    "She left her vagina, in North Carolina, and
    her arsehole in Buckingham Palace."
    I sort of went off the Crown. Olivia Coleman played it as Olivia Coleman with an accent - perhaps she couldn’t help herself - and I thought the producers wouldn’t be able to help themselves with the Thatcher years and, low and behold, I was right.

    It was best done as a period piece in the 50s and 60s and left at that.
    Yesterday, at a train station newsagent the "top shelf" consisted of those Heat/Hello type of magazines. Every one of them featured a picture of Harry & Meghan.

    The appetite of the British public for all things royal is insatiable.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,591
    Scott_xP said:

    We are now in the bizarre position that the while Labour is terrified of criticising Brexit, it’s left to Brexit supporters writing in the Telegraph to point out what an abject failure it has been. https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1562675224889675776

    Yes. That's what happens when neither EU membership nor this version of Brexit are sensible options, and the compromise bus (EFTA/EEA) has left.

    Both Labour and Tories are about equally responsible for the long term statecraft failure.

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,303
    Carnyx said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
    And there was me thinking it was a harmless website for lovers of feta cheese...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,200
    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
    Isn't Parris a Lib Dem now?
    I don't know if Parris is in a party, but it is salutary to think that not long ago he was the incarnation of thoughtful mainstream one nation Toryism.

    I am by instinct a one nation Tory - Parris, Hurd, Heseltine and Clarke are our representatives.

    Their epic failure is to fail over 40 years to understand how to shape the EU so that is was what the UK both needed and could accept. This should have been a top exercise in moderate statecraft and democratic accountability.

    This problem has driven Parris slightly deranged because of how much denial he has to engage in, and for now destroyed the heart of the Tory party.

    SKS is the nearest there is to this tradition available, though not very near. He gets my vote.


    That’s an interesting analysis.

    I think (particularly given the characters you’ve mentioned) elitist snobbery played a big part.

    They simply wanted to play at the table with their fellows, and didn’t really think it was the business of the electorate to worry their pretty little heads about it.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161
    kyf_100 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
    And there was me thinking it was a harmless website for lovers of feta cheese...
    Indeed. The expertise and knowledge of of PBers is impressive, from moths downward.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    former Remainer Truss will save Brexit from actual Brexiteer Sunak? https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1562706382872227843/photo/1
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,720
    edited August 25
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    We are now in the bizarre position that the while Labour is terrified of criticising Brexit, it’s left to Brexit supporters writing in the Telegraph to point out what an abject failure it has been. https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1562675224889675776

    Yes. That's what happens when neither EU membership nor this version of Brexit are sensible options, and the compromise bus (EFTA/EEA) has left.

    Both Labour and Tories are about equally responsible for the long term statecraft failure.

    They say no plan survives contact with the enemy. It's worse than that because we faced the enemy without even a plan. No surprises it is now chaotic as there is no roadmap to try to follow; Brexit now consists of whatever comes into our politicians' heads, announced at a time they think will be most beneficial to them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    TOPPING said:

    They say no plan survives contact with the enemy. It's worse than that because we faced the enemy without even a plan. No surprises it is now chaotic as there is no roadmap to try to follow; Brexit now consists of whatever comes into our politicians' heads, announced at a time they think will be most beneficial to them.

    Brexit was never a solution to any problems we faced, so it is not surprising it doesn't "work"
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Just read that Matthew Parris piece in The Times. Jeepers creepers.

    - “She’s crackers. It isn’t going to work.”

    Loving this blue on blue action.

    Blue on blue action has been the norm for decades.
    Isn't Parris a Lib Dem now?
    I don't know if Parris is in a party, but it is salutary to think that not long ago he was the incarnation of thoughtful mainstream one nation Toryism.

    I am by instinct a one nation Tory - Parris, Hurd, Heseltine and Clarke are our representatives.

    Their epic failure is to fail over 40 years to understand how to shape the EU so that is was what the UK both needed and could accept. This should have been a top exercise in moderate statecraft and democratic accountability.

    This problem has driven Parris slightly deranged because of how much denial he has to engage in, and for now destroyed the heart of the Tory party.

    SKS is the nearest there is to this tradition available, though not very near. He gets my vote.

    What one-nation Toryism needs is courage. Starmer is a lion. Unfortunately, the Wizard of Oz kind.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,082
    Carnyx said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
    And there was me thinking it was a harmless website for lovers of feta cheese...
    Indeed. The expertise and knowledge of of PBers is impressive, from moths downward.
    It was a very long bible study forum last night
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Scottish ministers are being taken to court as hundreds are affected by tuition fees residency rules in Scotland

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62664664

    We're going to be told again by lots of SNP supporters that it is incompetence that has resulted in a nationalist govt dividing people along these lines and not good old fashioned xenophobia and racism.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1562703879732490242
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Carnyx said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
    And there was me thinking it was a harmless website for lovers of feta cheese...
    Indeed. The expertise and knowledge of of PBers is impressive, from moths downward.
    Except on matters to do with religion, judging from last night's increasingly bizarre debate which bore little resemblance to expertise on either side.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161
    Scott_xP said:

    Scottish ministers are being taken to court as hundreds are affected by tuition fees residency rules in Scotland

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62664664

    We're going to be told again by lots of SNP supporters that it is incompetence that has resulted in a nationalist govt dividing people along these lines and not good old fashioned xenophobia and racism.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1562703879732490242

    Hmm, those were the same rules that were in place in all the UK before rUK scrapped paying tuition fees. And based on residency not birth.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,894
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    We are now in the bizarre position that the while Labour is terrified of criticising Brexit, it’s left to Brexit supporters writing in the Telegraph to point out what an abject failure it has been. https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1562675224889675776

    Yes. That's what happens when neither EU membership nor this version of Brexit are sensible options, and the compromise bus (EFTA/EEA) has left.

    Both Labour and Tories are about equally responsible for the long term statecraft failure.

    Though Leave won on the slogan "Take Back Control", and whatever the virtues of EFTA/EEA, enhanced British control isn't one of them. Some of the problems of 2016-19 were caused by bad statecraft all around, but some were also caused by the structure of the question asked of politicians after the referendum. There certainly wasn't an easy compromise, maybe none at all.

    The halfway house was more worst-of-both-worlds than best-of-both-worlds, which is why it's only been attractive to smallish countries with specific issues.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,161

    Carnyx said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Truss has so many big problems I wonder if her team know which to deny first?
    Not supported by most Tory MPs
    Cost of Living catastrophe where the solutions are politically or economically untenable
    A coterie of the wort members of Johnson's government plus a choice of 2019 mince to promote

    If they seriously try and market themselves as a "new" government I expect the response will get pretty brutal. No government would get through this winter without scars. None. But across Europe governments are showing voters they understand the crisis, they are prepared to do whatever it takes, and are putting lots of money into it.

    The only money Trussteam are putting up is new debt to give themselves a tax cut, and opening a credit line in the Fetlife store.

    *googles Fetlife* ... the things one learns on PB. "FetLife is the Social Network for the BDSM, Fetish & Kinky Community. Like Facebook, but run by kinksters like you and me. We think it is more fun that way."
    And there was me thinking it was a harmless website for lovers of feta cheese...
    Indeed. The expertise and knowledge of of PBers is impressive, from moths downward.
    It was a very long bible study forum last night
    It was. Not exactly a marriage of minds, or even a civil union.
This discussion has been closed.