Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

More good polling for Truss – politicalbetting.com

1356710

Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,470

    Truss vs Starmer

    Two Remainers turned Leavers. Anyone followed the voters and gone the other way yet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    The fact Truss now leads slightly with all voters, not just Conservative voters, will certainly boost her campaign
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    edited July 2022
    Meanwhile Rishi calls the Equalities Act 'a load of woke nonsense' and promises to amend it

    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1553131264940445696?s=20&t=ln8tDtAbxm0FRa5go_iGkQ
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Trump Just Told Us His Master Plan
    If he gets in next time, he won’t be dislodged by any means.

    "Trump sketched out a vision that a new Republican Congress could enact sweeping new emergency powers for the next Republican president. The president would be empowered to disregard state jurisdiction over criminal law. The president would be allowed to push aside a “weak, foolish, and stupid governor,” and to fire “radical and racist prosecutors”—racist here meaning “anti-white.” The president could federalize state National Guards for law-enforcement duties, stop and frisk suspects for illegal weapons, and impose death sentences on drug dealers after expedited trials."

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/trumps-america-first-speech-revealed-a-plan-for-power/670963/

    I imagine that summary executions of drug dealers might actually be quite popular in communities devastated by narcotics, especially in Democrat run cities.

    And of course it makes Trump's opponents go into bat for the drug dealer in defending due process.

    As ever with Trump, there is method with the madness and narcissism. That is what makes him a tough opponent.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531

    The economy has been my go to for a Conservative defeat for a couple of years. However, if Truss and the Mail can propagate the lie that it was Johnson and Sunak's socialism that caused all the problems Labour are in the cart!
    Perhaps.

    But one thing the Conservatives would really need to crack down on is any impression of greed, sleaze and 'one rule for us, another rule for them'.

    And it would also be popular if confiscations of profits made from PPE contracts and/or Russian dealings were made.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Trump Just Told Us His Master Plan
    If he gets in next time, he won’t be dislodged by any means.

    Until death anyway... Death is always the greatest and final equalizer...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,949
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile Rishi calls the Equalities Act 'a load of woke nonsense' and promises to amend it

    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1553131264940445696?s=20&t=ln8tDtAbxm0FRa5go_iGkQ

    Not in that link he doesn't. ;)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Truss vs Starmer

    SKSICIPM in 2024/25!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    MISTY said:

    I imagine that summary executions of drug dealers might actually be quite popular in communities devastated by narcotics, especially in Democrat run cities.

    And of course it makes Trump's opponents go into bat for the drug dealer in defending due process.

    As ever with Trump, there is method with the madness and narcissism. That is what makes him a tough opponent.
    Is he going to overturn the ban on the president standing for two consecutive terms? That surely would require a constitutional amendment, as would the president be enabled being able to remove a governor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109

    She cuts a deal. Rishi as foreign secretary and he can have a go as LOTO if she loses in 2 years. End the contest early.

    Best he can hope for now, and it's not a bad offer.

    If Truss loses the next general election the Tory membership would almost certainly vote for Badenoch or Priti Patel or even Rees Mogg over Rishi
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538
    No queues at Dover today.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    One thing I noticed about Trump's plan is the schedule F stuff that would strip senior administrative staff of their employment protections. Workers in politically sensitive influential jobs could be summarily dismissed and replaced if deemed to be resisting the program.

    Whatever you think of that proposal, its something to watch because there is a strand of Daily Mail opinion that maintains the civil service/judges/police etc are against the people here. Somebody could pick it up and run with it, with some effect.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    HYUFD said:

    If Truss loses the next general election the Tory membership would almost certainly vote for Badenoch or Priti Patel or even Rees Mogg over Rishi
    Kemi will be LOTO IMO. How PM Kier deals with LOTO Kemi I have no idea...
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited July 2022
    FPT
    DougSeal said:

    I appreciate you're not a native English speaker but we would usually say "other side of the coin", not "other side of the paper".
    Enjoy the sprat, Doug :-) The sarcasm in your usage of "but" is so impressive. Given that I was going to use "coin" as a verb in the next sentence, I plumped for variety. I guess you feel safest reading metaphors that you're already familiar with. See George Orwell's first rule.

    Should I take it that you're not interested in the matters under discussion and that you prefer to post one-liners to the internet scoffing at people whose horizons you find scarily wide for (in your wrong opinion) being forriners?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    GIN1138 said:

    Kemi will be LOTO IMO. How PM Kier deals with LOTO Kemi I have no idea...
    Truss has a problem with Kemi. Both giving her a senior job and not giving her a senior job are politically risky moves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Leon said:

    Russia’s plans for post-war Europe. Great for Serbia and Ireland. Bad for Finland


    Hubris on a level with Hitler if it's not just a piss take.

    I don't suppose there's a similar map for the decolonisation of the Muscovite empire ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MISTY said:

    One thing I noticed about Trump's plan is the schedule F stuff that would strip senior administrative staff of their employment protections. Workers in politically sensitive influential jobs could be summarily dismissed and replaced if deemed to be resisting the program.

    Whatever you think of that proposal, its something to watch because there is a strand of Daily Mail opinion that maintains the civil service/judges/police etc are against the people here. Somebody could pick it up and run with it, with some effect.

    Kemi Badenoch mentioned it during her campaign. Why shouldn’t the head of the Passport Agency have his head on the block, if his department are utterly failing at their primary task of getting passports to people in a timely manner?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    IshmaelZ said:

    And some background

    https://nation.cymru/news/bizarre-russian-plan-for-post-war-europe-gives-kingdom-of-wales-half-of-england-but-cuts-out-cardiff/

    Vladimir Solovyov suggested destroying England with a nuclear missile but leaving Wales intact in order to ensure that the UK is over.

    Speaking on Rossiya1, the state-owned news channel, he said that “quiet” Wales would then be “independent”.

    “Listen Brits, wake up, you showed the whole world that you are arrogant, illiterate and can’t do anything but steal,” he said.

    “The only reason you don’t have Egyptian pyramids in the British Museum is that you physically couldn’t steal them. You stole everything.

    “They are lecturing us, a country we can destroy with one nuclear missile,” he added.

    He does realise we also have nuclear weapons?

    Based on that map Russia wants to divide up every nation in Europe, we need NATO more than ever
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531
    Tres said:

    In other news
    I see sleepy joe has managed to get Mexico to pay $1.5bn to finish some wall the orange one failed to construct.

    It seems the optimum leadership for better government in the USA in a Dem President a marginally Dem Congress and a conservative Supreme Court.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,949
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile Rishi calls the Equalities Act 'a load of woke nonsense' and promises to amend it

    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1553131264940445696?s=20&t=ln8tDtAbxm0FRa5go_iGkQ

    That looks like a new Section 28 to my eyes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    I can’t believe Truss wants to get Redwood back. The man is certifiable.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,390
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile Rishi calls the Equalities Act 'a load of woke nonsense' and promises to amend it

    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1553131264940445696?s=20&t=ln8tDtAbxm0FRa5go_iGkQ

    Thing is: it's not credible him saying it, and it comes across as reactionary because there's no intelligent critique or dissection of it; it's just reflexive because he's massively behind in the polls and he's pandering to what he thinks are core Tory prejudices to claw back some lost ground.

    And I saw that as someone who's massively anti-Woke. And it's on top of his VAT tax cut farts. On top of members of his campaign team briefing that he's behind because Tory members are still 'a bit racist' and I'm afraid it's made me lose my respect for him. He's got no political judgement.

    I will no longer be voting Rishi.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    Off topic, but has anyone seen Malcolm G lately? I know Dura Ace is off on a course in Cairo.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Plus she wants to put her current shag in as Chancellor, which is the sort of thing we haven’t seen since James I.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,004
    HYUFD said:

    The fact Truss now leads slightly with all voters, not just Conservative voters, will certainly boost her campaign

    Many non-Conservatives are hoping that Truss becomes leader of the Conservative Party !!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if in Russia there is a discussion forum pouring over the political significance of comments on Loose Women and weird maps posted by random people on the net.

    The difference is that openly fascistic propaganda is widespread in Russian mainstream media.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,949

    Thing is: it's not credible him saying it, and it comes across as reactionary because there's no intelligent critique or dissection of it; it's just reflexive because he's massively behind in the polls and he's pandering to what he thinks are core Tory prejudices to claw back some lost ground.

    And I saw that as someone who's massively anti-Woke. And it's on top of his VAT tax cut farts. On top of members of his campaign team briefing that he's behind because Tory members are still 'a bit racist' and I'm afraid it's made me lose my respect for him. He's got no political judgement.

    I will no longer be voting Rishi.

    Good for you.
    He has abandoned all the things which made his a credible and creditable, if doomed, campaign.
    He could have pivoted to Cost of Living.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited July 2022

    Thing is: it's not credible him saying it, and it comes across as reactionary because there's no intelligent critique or dissection of it; it's just reflexive because he's massively behind in the polls and he's pandering to what he thinks are core Tory prejudices to claw back some lost ground.

    And I saw that as someone who's massively anti-Woke. And it's on top of his VAT tax cut farts. On top of members of his campaign team briefing that he's behind because Tory members are still 'a bit racist' and I'm afraid it's made me lose my respect for him. He's got no political judgement.

    I will no longer be voting Rishi.

    Farts or farce?
    Either is appropriate.

    He may not have had anything to do with that campaign member’s silly comments to a foreign newspaper.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651


    Please define well informed. We have numerous examples of QCs who are mad as a box of frogs and seem to know less about the law than I do*.

    *in a recent matter I have knowledge of a QC advised his client to break a binding arbitration agreement in a contract, without even trying it. The result in court was a complete fail for his client. In minutes….
    Oh I agree - there are some really stupid lawyers around. Ms Braverman for one.

    But the Equalities Act can be found here - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents. S.212(1) defines woman. The court case referenced by Joanna Cherry can be found here - https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csih4.pdf.

    Sunak has a team. It took me all of 5 minutes to find the Act and this case. It would not be hard for him or a member of his team to do some proper research before wading in.

    The issues - of people trying to redefine woman or seeking to treat gender or gender identity as a protected characteristic (they are not) or teaching a particular gender ideology in schools or the role of lobby groups and their influence (see the Forstater, Bailey or Tavistock cases) do not arise from the Equality Act at all. And are not going to be resolved in any sort of sensible fashion by attacking the Act.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    I can’t believe Truss wants to get Redwood back. The man is certifiable.

    Clearly we're passing into the End Of Days for this run of the Conservatives in government.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Sandpit said:

    Kemi Badenoch mentioned it during her campaign. Why shouldn’t the head of the Passport Agency have his head on the block, if his department are utterly failing at their primary task of getting passports to people in a timely manner?
    Interesting response. I think its more the head of the Royal Navy/Border Force with their head on the block for refusing to push back boats in the channel and fly illegals to Rwanda kind of thing. Something that is perceived as refusal to carry out government policy for political reasons rather than incompetence.

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    Cyclefree said:

    Let's choose. He is either -
    a) an idiot
    b) badly informed
    c) well-informed but pandering to the gallery
    d) panicking
    e) using this issue to attack equalities law more generally.

    The possibility of (e) worries me, especially given the nonsense Suella Braverman has been coming out with. Yet even now the Labour Party cannot be relied on to protect womens' rights or the rights of troubled children to have the best possible medical care.

    Is it beyond them to get advice from well-informed equalities lawyers?
    I did tell you that your anti-trans activism would rebound on you Cyclefree in exactly this way, with a rolling back of all the advances made for women and other minorities in the C20th but you wouldn’t have it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Off topic, but has anyone seen Malcolm G lately? I know Dura Ace is off on a course in Cairo.

    I assumed Malc had finally been banned LOL?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Good for you.
    He has abandoned all the things which made his a credible and creditable, if doomed, campaign.
    He could have pivoted to Cost of Living.
    It turned out he was a total nitwit, as I’ve been warning people on here for years.

    That’s not fair, he’s not a nitwit.
    He has terrible judgment though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,840
    Phil said:

    I did tell you that your anti-trans activism would rebound on you Cyclefree in exactly this way, with a rolling back of all the advances made for women and other minorities in the C20th but you wouldn’t have it.
    What a pile of fat hairy bollocks
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Plus she wants to put her current shag in as Chancellor, which is the sort of thing we haven’t seen since James I.

    Er... is that a potentially libelous comment?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,949
    edited July 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh I agree - there are some really stupid lawyers around. Ms Braverman for one.

    But the Equalities Act can be found here - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents. S.212(1) defines woman. The court case referenced by Joanna Cherry can be found here - https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csih4.pdf.

    Sunak has a team. It took me all of 5 minutes to find the Act and this case. It would not be hard for him or a member of his team to do some proper research before wading in.

    The issues - of people trying to redefine woman or seeking to treat gender or gender identity as a protected characteristic (they are not) or teaching a particular gender ideology in schools or the role of lobby groups and their influence (see the Forstater, Bailey or Tavistock cases) do not arise from the Equality Act at all. And are not going to be resolved in any sort of sensible fashion by attacking the Act.

    It's dog whistle code.
    People like you are struggling.
    Because of people not like you.
    It's not easy to counter with rational argument.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    Icarus said:

    Many non-Conservatives are hoping that Truss becomes leader of the Conservative Party !!
    Starmer led Truss 34% to 33% as preferred PM with Redfield last week, much closer than when she started her campaign. Although she likely still loses, she has made progress

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1552692928644096001?s=20&t=aV21AdDR4r3sRJSNZNnnNg
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    GIN1138 said:

    I assumed Malc had finally been banned LOL?
    He was a bit over the top the last time I saw him post anything. Even for him!
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    I can’t believe Truss wants to get Redwood back. The man is certifiable.

    If tax cuts are the equivalent of taking a firm grip of the tory party's shaft, talking about appointing John Redwood is shoving the other hand down the party's undercrackers and cupping its nuts.

    Somebody knows the the conservative erogenous zones.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,834
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh I agree - there are some really stupid lawyers around. Ms Braverman for one.

    But the Equalities Act can be found here - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents. S.212(1) defines woman. The court case referenced by Joanna Cherry can be found here - https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csih4.pdf.

    Sunak has a team. It took me all of 5 minutes to find the Act and this case. It would not be hard for him or a member of his team to do some proper research before wading in.

    The issues - of people trying to redefine woman or seeking to treat gender or gender identity as a protected characteristic (they are not) or teaching a particular gender ideology in schools or the role of lobby groups and their influence (see the Forstater, Bailey or Tavistock cases) do not arise from the Equality Act at all. And are not going to be resolved in any sort of sensible fashion by attacking the Act.

    It can be the case that the equalities act is actually satisfactory for addressing ge trans issue and yet is still, more widely, woke nonsense. I don't know if this is the case, but what Sunak says doesn't seem to necessarily be wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,840
    Nigelb said:

    Hubris on a level with Hitler if it's not just a piss take.

    I don't suppose there's a similar map for the decolonisation of the Muscovite empire ?
    It’s a Russian joke - and it’s in response to earlier maps slicing up Russia following their ‘total defeat in Ukraine’

    That said, I’m increasingly convinced Putin would not stop with Ukraine if he won. Why should he? He would take Moldova, possibly Georgia and the Baltics
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    I rather despair if Kwasi Kwarteng does become Chancellor.

    He’s Rishi 2.0, without the ability to articulate himself.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,820
    Cyclefree said:

    Let's choose. He is either -
    a) an idiot
    b) badly informed
    c) well-informed but pandering to the gallery
    d) panicking
    e) using this issue to attack equalities law more generally.

    The possibility of (e) worries me, especially given the nonsense Suella Braverman has been coming out with. Yet even now the Labour Party cannot be relied on to protect womens' rights or the rights of troubled children to have the best possible medical care.

    Is it beyond them to get advice from well-informed equalities lawyers?
    I'm gob-smacked at the suggestion that politicians could be whipping up trans bigotry in order to roll back our legal rights.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    He was a bit over the top the last time I saw him post anything. Even for him!
    He’s probably self-combusted in a paroxysm of vinegar and cheap whisky.

    Thus carrying off Alba’s only known supporter.

    RIP Malcom G.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,949
    MISTY said:

    If tax cuts are the equivalent of taking a firm grip of the tory party's shaft, talking about appointing John Redwood is shoving the other hand down the party's undercrackers and cupping its nuts.

    Somebody knows the the conservative erogenous zones.
    A colourful analogy.
    The rest of us better apply generous lube before touching our toes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782

    Is he going to overturn the ban on the president standing for two consecutive terms? That surely would require a constitutional amendment, as would the president be enabled being able to remove a governor.
    Well there are at least two Supreme Court justices who would be more at home on Iran's Guardian Council, so who knows ?

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    Leon said:

    What a pile of fat hairy bollocks
    The truth is often unpalatable, I agree.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MISTY said:

    Interesting response. I think its more the head of the Royal Navy/Border Force with their head on the block for refusing to push back boats in the channel and fly illegals to Rwanda kind of thing. Something that is perceived as refusal to carry out government policy for political reasons rather than incompetence.

    Well, in a more normal employment environment, refusing to do what the boss is asking, for political reasons, would be called insubordination and get you fired in short order.

    The clue should be in the name: civil servant.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer led Truss 34% to 33% as preferred PM with Redfield last week, much closer than when she started her campaign. Although she likely still loses, she has made progress

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1552692928644096001?s=20&t=aV21AdDR4r3sRJSNZNnnNg
    She has had quite a lot of publicity lately, though!
    I must admit, that like Dr F earlier this morning, I struggle to find a really good reason for voting Labour apart from the fact that they are not the Conservatives!
    If the Lib Dems or the Greens had a decent chance here I might will be tempted. However I think it's more important to get rid of Ms Patel!
    Although, to be fair, she's not a bad constituency MP. It's her general policies that I object to!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    If, as seems to be the case, Truss is a habitual and unrepentant leaker, she will run in issues with the media quite quickly.

    Here again she is continuity Boris.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    He was a bit over the top the last time I saw him post anything. Even for him!
    I always had a bit of a soft spot for Malc. He was more like a pantomime villain...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Sandpit said:

    Well, in a more normal employment environment, refusing to do what the boss is asking, for political reasons, would be called insubordination and get you fired in short order.

    The clue should be in the name: civil servant.
    Not if it’s unlawful.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,840
    Phil said:

    The truth is often unpalatable, I agree.
    You’re literally claiming that the right to vote will be taken away from women. Get a grip
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,353
    If anything absolutely guarantees reform/change/transformation, it’s an intervention from Brown.




  • TresTres Posts: 2,820
    Sandpit said:

    Well, in a more normal employment environment, refusing to do what the boss is asking, for political reasons, would be called insubordination and get you fired in short order.

    The clue should be in the name: civil servant.
    If a politician promises mining cheese on the moon, they shouldn't be able to sack the civil servant who is unable to achieve it.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591
    GIN1138 said:

    I always had a bit of a soft spot for Malc. He was more like a pantomime villain...
    He's behind us.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679
    GIN1138 said:

    My, my what a big "cucumber" you have there... :open_mouth:
    That reminds me of a certain (I think) Morecambe and Wise sketch set in a country inn in Georgian times.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,485
    Mr. Divvie, is he calling for the disestablishment of the Church of England?

    Of course, if England had a Parliament, then the Commons could become something like what Brown appears to be supporting.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Phil said:

    I did tell you that your anti-trans activism would rebound on you Cyclefree in exactly this way, with a rolling back of all the advances made for women and other minorities in the C20th but you wouldn’t have it.
    Nonsense. Nothing cyclefree has ever said has been anti-trans activism. Intelligent, gay, left wing twitter is delighted with the destruction of the Tavistock precisely because the Stonewall agenda is anti-gay, anti woman sexual fascism.

    We badly need to enact a new s.28 to deal with people like you, the difference being the new version will outlaw the promotion of sheer, mouth breathing, wannabe woke stupidity.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Leon said:

    It’s a Russian joke - and it’s in response to earlier maps slicing up Russia following their ‘total defeat in Ukraine’

    That said, I’m increasingly convinced Putin would not stop with Ukraine if he won. Why should he? He would take Moldova, possibly Georgia and the Baltics
    Why would he take the Ukraine? Why would he aim to take Moldova and the other four? Those are the questions, not why should he refrain.

    Did you see that the EU (or perhaps the "EUSSR" in Brexiteerspeak?) backed down this month over Kaliningrad?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh I agree - there are some really stupid lawyers around. Ms Braverman for one.

    But the Equalities Act can be found here - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents. S.212(1) defines woman. The court case referenced by Joanna Cherry can be found here - https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csih4.pdf.

    Sunak has a team. It took me all of 5 minutes to find the Act and this case. It would not be hard for him or a member of his team to do some proper research before wading in.

    The issues - of people trying to redefine woman or seeking to treat gender or gender identity as a protected characteristic (they are not) or teaching a particular gender ideology in schools or the role of lobby groups and their influence (see the Forstater, Bailey or Tavistock cases) do not arise from the Equality Act at all. And are not going to be resolved in any sort of sensible fashion by attacking the Act.

    It's just a desperate attempt to salvage his foundering campaign. It has nothing to do with logic - other than that of appealing to blind prejudice.
    It won't do his campaign any good, and has diminished him as a serious politician.

    But he's probably right in thinking Tory members might cheer attacks on the Equality Act, illogical or otherwise.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,818
    Leon said:

    What a pile of fat hairy bollocks
    Erudite intervention.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited July 2022
    Rishi’s campaign is over.
    He is just demeaning himself now.
    Astonishing bad calls for a man who had a near who’s who of senior Tories lined up behind him, and the very best operatives behind the scenes.

    We see now that he was never a man of substance.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,730
    Sandpit said:

    Kemi Badenoch mentioned it during her campaign. Why shouldn’t the head of the Passport Agency have his head on the block, if his department are utterly failing at their primary task of getting passports to people in a timely manner?
    Is the failing because of his actions in his role, or because the politicians have chosen a stupid policy or simply not provided the required funding?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    He's behind us.
    That's enough pegging jokes

    @malcolmg (creating link so I can click it to check his status)

    amd @malcolmg22
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    Dynamo said:

    Why would he take the Ukraine? Why would he aim to take Moldova and the other four? Those are the questions, not why should he refrain.

    Did you see that the EU (or perhaps the "EUSSR" in Brexiteerspeak?) backed down this month over Kaliningrad?
    "Traditional" Greater Russia!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679
    edited July 2022
    GIN1138 said:

    Er... is that a potentially libelous comment?
    Hmmm. Probably not very.

    Close friends get to call me TC...



    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1647491/Liz-Truss-Chancellor-Tory-leadership-Therese-Coffey-Johnson-Redwood-ERG-update
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Sandpit said:

    Well, in a more normal employment environment, refusing to do what the boss is asking, for political reasons, would be called insubordination and get you fired in short order.

    The clue should be in the name: civil servant.
    That would depend on the legality of the instruction.
    In the case of pushing back boats, that's disputable.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Thing is: it's not credible him saying it, and it comes across as reactionary because there's no intelligent critique or dissection of it; it's just reflexive because he's massively behind in the polls and he's pandering to what he thinks are core Tory prejudices to claw back some lost ground.

    And I saw that as someone who's massively anti-Woke. And it's on top of his VAT tax cut farts. On top of members of his campaign team briefing that he's behind because Tory members are still 'a bit racist' and I'm afraid it's made me lose my respect for him. He's got no political judgement.

    I will no longer be voting Rishi.

    See my comment at 11:57.

    Phil said:

    I did tell you that your anti-trans activism would rebound on you Cyclefree in exactly this way, with a rolling back of all the advances made for women and other minorities in the C20th but you wouldn’t have it.
    I am not anti-trans and have never ever advocated for a reduction in their rights. I did point out that trans activists have been advocating for a rolling back of womens rights, contained in the Equalities Act, since 2015, but you wouldn't have it. And when their actions have been tested in the courts - see the Forstater and Bailey cases - they have lost. And when it has been tested by the science - see the Cass Report - action to roll back the damage they have and are doing is, I hope, stopped.

    And I did also point out that I was worried about attacks on womens rights from those using the trans issue to do so. Unlike you I can see that womens rights and sexism occur on both the left and right. I do not take a binary view and assume - as you appear to do - that women can expect to be supported by one side only and attacked only by another. Sexism is pretty universal alas.

    I note that the Labour Party - Wes Streeting , for instance - has said nothing about the Cass Report and what it recommends for the proper treatment of children with dysphoria. I notice that Dawn Butler had nothing to say when a black lesbian won her sex discrimination case against her chambers who had unwisely bought in to the TRA nonsense.

    By the way I did read that article you sent me. Long and quite demanding but very interesting and thoughtful. It merits a second more careful reading. So thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109

    Mr. Divvie, is he calling for the disestablishment of the Church of England?

    Of course, if England had a Parliament, then the Commons could become something like what Brown appears to be supporting.

    If there was an elected Senate as he proposes then the Lords would cease to exist full stop. However that does not necessarily stop the Church of England remaining the established Church with the monarch as Supreme Governor
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    Leon said:

    You’re literally claiming that the right to vote will be taken away from women. Get a grip
    Well, I wouldn’t put that past some of the people involved, sure. But the most recent stuff will go first, if they get their way.

    My personal belief is that Cyclefree et al have been used by people with a much wider agenda: They don’t give a stuff about trans people particularly, (I mean, they believe them to be degenerate perverts who have rejected God’s mercy, but they hardly limit that attitude to trans people...) they’re really after the unrolling of the liberal project. Gay rights, women’s rights, the whole lot.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    If there was an elected Senate as he proposes then the Lords would cease to exist full stop. However that does not necessarily stop the Church of England remaining the established Church with the monarch as Supreme Governor
    With a Peggster at the wheel?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Rishi’s campaign is over.
    He is just demeaning himself now.
    Astonishing bad calls for a man who had a near who’s who of senior Tories lined up behind him, and the very best operatives behind the scenes.

    We see now that he was never a man of substance.

    His time has been and gone now. Michael Portillo, David Miliband, Jeremy Hunt... And now Rish Sunak is another one to add to the roll-call of no hopers who thought they might be PM but blew it when the chance came.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    dixiedean said:

    A colourful analogy.
    The rest of us better apply generous lube before touching our toes.
    I imagine that a first meeting between Redwood and Rees-Mogg on one side and the treasury officials on the other would be cold enough to chill a decent Burgundy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    IshmaelZ said:

    With a Peggster at the wheel?
    A pity the Tower of London is no longer in active use
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nonsense. Nothing cyclefree has ever said has been anti-trans activism. Intelligent, gay, left wing twitter is delighted with the destruction of the Tavistock precisely because the Stonewall agenda is anti-gay, anti woman sexual fascism
    Pink News and Jolyon finding themselves on “the wrong side of history” - which is funny, because that’s what they used to say about people asking for evidence on puberty blockers….
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Leon said:

    It’s a Russian joke - and it’s in response to earlier maps slicing up Russia following their ‘total defeat in Ukraine
    Indeed, and a nasty joke too. It shows the "Emirates" of London and Paris, the "Islamo-Democratic Republic of Sweden", and the "Republic of Wessex". Plus the "German Democratic Republic" for old times' sake. And no Romania but a "Gypsy Empire".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Months too late, but welcome nonetheless.
    I've never understood the unwillingness to provide Ukraine with decent air defence systems against bombardment aimed 90% at civilian targets.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1553312444230995968
    US govt is in process of procuring NASAMS systems to Ukraine

    "I do not have detailed info on contracting process but we are already in process of procuring the system. We announced NASAM’s procurement &move forward with that," senior defense official said
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    Cyclefree said:

    I am not anti-trans and have never ever advocated for a reduction in their rights. I did point out that trans activists have been advocating for a rolling back of womens rights, contained in the Equalities Act, since 2015, but you wouldn't have it. And when their actions have been tested in the courts - see the Forstater and Bailey cases - they have lost. And when it has been tested by the science - see the Cass Report - action to roll back the damage they have and are doing is, I hope, stopped.

    And I did also point out that I was worried about attacks on womens rights from those using the trans issue to do so. Unlike you I can see that womens rights and sexism occur on both the left and right. I do not take a binary view and assume - as you appear to do - that women can expect to be supported by one side only and attacked only by another. Sexism is pretty universal alas.

    I note that the Labour Party - Wes Streeting , for instance - has said nothing about the Cass Report and what it recommends for the proper treatment of children with dysphoria. I notice that Dawn Butler had nothing to say when a black lesbian won her sex discrimination case against her chambers who had unwisely bought in to the TRA nonsense.

    By the way I did read that article you sent me. Long and quite demanding but very interesting and thoughtful. It merits a second more careful reading. So thank you.
    I‘m glad you enjoyed the article. It is one I come back to occasionally too. It asked questions that I don’t have answers to, that cut across my internal moral compasses.

    I don’t think you see yourself as anti-trans, but I would say that you have allied yourself (implicitly or otherwise) with people who absolutely are anti trans & are using well meaning people like you as cover. People like you are then the respectable face of the movement; the people with reasonable concerns, the ones who don’t hate trans people, they just don’t want them to be difficult.

    You are part of a movement that has swept up trans people in a culture war not of their own making, that seeks to use them as pawns in a political game. Can you see that from their point of view, whether you think you are anti-trans or not might appear somewhat sophist from their point of view?
  • Still not seen any polling that shows Truss Tories ahead of Labour if she took over.

    I’m sure we’d had polling of Johnson last time
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,834
    Phil said:

    Well, I wouldn’t put that past some of the people involved, sure. But the most recent stuff will go first, if they get their way.

    My personal belief is that Cyclefree et al have been used by people with a much wider agenda: They don’t give a stuff about trans people particularly, (I mean, they believe them to be degenerate perverts who have rejected God’s mercy, but they hardly limit that attitude to trans people...) they’re really after the unrolling of the liberal project. Gay rights, women’s rights, the whole lot.
    Most people have a position on woke: a set of bounds, to the left of which is too woke, to the right of which is not woke enough.
    I think almost none of these people will be taking their position for religious reasons.
    I also think almost no-one who thinks a lot of where we are no is 'too woke' is looking for what you're suggesting. What your suggesting is that there are people hankering for a return to the 1880s. I've never met any such people. I've never met anyone hankering for a return to the 1950s, or even the 1980s. For most people, 2012 or thereabouts would be just about fine.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531
    GIN1138 said:

    His time has been and gone now. Michael Portillo, David Miliband, Jeremy Hunt... And now Rish Sunak is another one to add to the roll-call of no hopers who thought they might be PM but blew it when the chance came.
    Its about timing and making use of opportunities.

    The skilled ones do it well - Thatcher, Blair, Clinton, Obama, Boris, even Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,818

    I’m with Joanna (on this one):

    Oh for goodness sake! Could the Tory leadership race get any dumber? It’s not the Equality Act that’s the problem! 🤦‍♀️ It acknowledges the biological reality of sex as Scotland’s Supreme Court held recently thanx to @ForWomenScot

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1553318558314160128

    He's using the poorly understood transgender issue to press some reactionary buttons. Bit disappointing from him really.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Still not seen any polling that shows Truss Tories ahead of Labour if she took over.

    I’m sure we’d had polling of Johnson last time

    A lot of people wouldn't have the faintest idea who she is to be honest...
  • GIN1138 said:

    A lot of people wouldn't have the faintest idea who she is to be honest...
    Which is either an incredible opportunity or a very dangerous one.

    I still maintain she’s going to come unstuck when CoL doesn’t get resolved
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,644
    GIN1138 said:

    I always had a bit of a soft spot for Malc. He was more like a pantomime villain...
    I agree. He was just one of the more garish strands in PB's rich tapestry. I hope he returns.

    Many of our ex-cons do.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    A pity the Tower of London is no longer in active use
    Cripes, do you think Wills could accomodate that?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    edited July 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    I am quite certain that there are people with precisely that agenda. Especially in the US. And groups in Europe too.

    But the problem we have - and I genuinely wish you would engage with it rather than dismissing it - is this: TRAs also have an agenda and it is very explicitly and openly to replace sex with gender and to limit or remove existing rights for women. Stonewall, for instance, has openly called for the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act to be removed, for the offence of rape by deception to be removed. These proposals and self-ID will diminish the position of women, not simply in relation to single sex spaces but in relation to equal pay (the use of a comparator is rendered meaningless if self-ID is permitted). Abolition of one of the crimes of rape is in no sense a progressive cause.

    Your position seems to be that women should not campaign against this but accept it because otherwise they might possibly give succour to some right-wing groups. It assumes that Stonewall and others supporting their stance are progressive because they say they are. I judge them on what they advocate. And there is nothing progressive about what they are advocating.

    So why should women not campaign against something that will harm them?That is an absurd and immoral view IMO. And, frankly, sexist because it is saying - whether you mean to or not - that women should never put their interests first.

    My position is that you & people like you are taking sides in a culture war that will rebound on you in ways that you will find deeply unconfortable if you “win”.

    Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it & more besides.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    Which is either an incredible opportunity or a very dangerous one.

    I still maintain she’s going to come unstuck when CoL doesn’t get resolved
    The Conservatives are done (well they've got until up to Jan 25 but you know what I mean) Labour will form the next government after the next general election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109

    Still not seen any polling that shows Truss Tories ahead of Labour if she took over.

    I’m sure we’d had polling of Johnson last time

    Yes, Johnson clearly polled ahead of Labour in the last leadership election.

    Truss might get a bounce, even pull ahead but the nightmare is she is the Tory Kim Campbell.

    Campbell got a bounce to about 35 to 36% in the polls and even led some polls in her first 3 months as PM but by polling day in October her Progressive Conservative party collapsed to just 16%, losing votes to the populist right Reform who got 18% as well as to the Liberals to her left who won a landslide victory with 41%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1993_Canadian_federal_election
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531

    Which is either an incredible opportunity or a very dangerous one.

    I still maintain she’s going to come unstuck when CoL doesn’t get resolved
    That depends upon how 'resolved' is described.

    Inflation is likely to fall significantly at some point, maybe even go negative, as the price increases eventually drop out of the annual calculation.

    Which will lead to claims of the problem being solved.

    But the price increases which have already happened will remain and so the people suffering from them will still feel the pain.

    Though likewise the people who have had good pay rises will also still be doing nicely.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591
    Dynamo said:

    Indeed, and a nasty joke too. It shows the "Emirates" of London and Paris, the "Islamo-Democratic Republic of Sweden", and the "Republic of Wessex". Plus the "German Democratic Republic" for old times' sake. And no Romania but a "Gypsy Empire".
    Gutted about the Kingdom of Mercia. I was hoping they'd make me an Offa.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,635
    GIN1138 said:

    I always had a bit of a soft spot for Malc. He was more like a pantomime villain...
    Oh no he isn’t !!

    I do,hope,he comes back. I have a soft spot for him too.
This discussion has been closed.