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Betting on a Tory poll lead in September – politicalbetting.com

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  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    Yorkshire? Warwickshire (Stratford ) , Oxfordshire
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,605
    Nigelb said:
    AOC isn't Bernie Sanders - she is a left Democrat. The chances that she starts challenging people in her own party are low to start with.

    Plus she is astute enough to realise that even if she somehow got the nomination, she can't get enough of the centre (such as it is in American politics) to win.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Oxon also for Bicester Village outlet shops, whatever those are, apparently.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,800

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    I have no desire to denigrate Bedfordshire.
    My experience consists entirely of avoiding the Delice de France kiosk at Luton Airport.
    Luton airport is shit. Utterly so.
    One of the best airport-themed songs however.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts
    Isn't Bath in Somerset, hence BANES council?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,732
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Warwickshire, with Stratford?

    Edit - according to this it's Kent unless you count Manchester and Birmingham as counties.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/515696/inbound-tourism-most-visited-uk-regions-united-kingdom/
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    Oxfordshire I'd have thought. Oxford (gets more tourists than Cambridge); Bicester Village (bizarre, but astonishingly well visited); Cotswolds (bits easiest to get to from London).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Nigelb said:
    Cat. Pigeons.

    Would turn the Democrat party upside-down, and almost guarantee a Republican president.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts
    Oxfordshire does of course have another massive draw for overseas tourists: Bicester Village.

    Oxford's problem, tourist economy-wise, is that it's a day-trip market. Tourists arrive by coach/train and then either go back to London the same day, or sometimes on to Stratford. So the tourist spend is low (mostly tat from Harry Potter shops, and food/drink) while the infrastructure costs for coach parking etc. are high.
  • FossFoss Posts: 694

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    I have no desire to denigrate Bedfordshire.
    My experience consists entirely of avoiding the Delice de France kiosk at Luton Airport.
    Although I live there, no one would claim Luton is one of England's beautiful towns. Dunstable is fairly unappealing, as is Houghton Regis. Bedford has its grotty areas, and some horrible redevelopment in the town centre, but parts of it, by the River Ouse and heading Northwards are quite splendid.

    It's the villages and hills that are charming.
    There is - or was? - a house in a Beds village which housed various Georgian and Victorian bric-a-brac assembled by an eccentric collector.

    A kind of amateur John Soane Museum.

    Ring any bells? Does it still exist?
    Unfortunately not. There are some splendid country houses, but I can't think of this house.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
  • I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    Lennon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    Oxfordshire I'd have thought. Oxford (gets more tourists than Cambridge); Bicester Village (bizarre, but astonishingly well visited); Cotswolds (bits easiest to get to from London).
    Much of the Cotswolds are actually unpleasant in the Summer, with the vast numbers of people.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Today's POTUS bet - lay of Gavin Newsom.
  • FossFoss Posts: 694
    edited July 2022
    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    This VisitEngland spreadsheet thinks it's Devon (at least for 2019).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
    How do you think the 2010 GE might have been different without the debates?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Foss said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    This VisitEngland spreadsheet thinks it's Devon (at least for 2019)
    Never been to Devon, but a friend is in the process of buying a house there, so will hopefully visit within the foreseeable.

  • I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
    How do you think the 2010 GE might have been different without the debates?
    Probably not that different actually. I suspect the impact of them is greatly exaggerated.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764

    I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
    How do you think the 2010 GE might have been different without the debates?
    In the end, not much, despite the polls going haywire after the first. Without the debates, I think the Conservatives might just have reached 326 seats, as initial polls of the campaign were indicating.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited July 2022
    County with the least foreign visitors?

    Northants? - just a bit boring all over
    Notts - i suspect Nottingham (robin hood and all that) and sherwood forest just keep it off rock bottom
    Leicestershire - Richard 3 probably gets it off rock bottom
    Lincolnshire? Lincoln is pretty and medieval in its centre but a small city and the rest of Lincolnshire is very remote
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    I asked on the previous thread, but don’t think anyone responded:

    With Sunak now at 9/1 (and seemingly lengthening by the hour), what price a Sunak withdrawal?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Cat. Pigeons.

    Would turn the Democrat party upside-down, and almost guarantee a Republican president.
    The Democrats have been very unlucky to have only one Left wing standard bearer running in the past. If there were two or more, it would pretty much guarantee that moderates won the first couple of primaries.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Not tempted

    Winter Will Be Coming

    I'm tempted. There must be some devilish punishment for asylum seekers that Starmer can devise which will trump sending them to Rwanda.
    Thought you were an SKS fan Roger?
    I was before I realised that like you he's a Brexiteer. Having been in France for a while and understood the problems of getting there I've realised quite how barking mad you both must be.
    I don't think it's barking mad to consider more than just how easy it is to get to one specific holiday location when you are deciding on membership or otherwise of a large and powerful supra-national organisation whose membership implies a complex mesh of obligations, responsibilities, costs and benefits.
    None that affect me you or anyone either of us know or are likely to. We just suffer the inconveniences and the costs and the lack of opportunities and the bloody awfulness of it. If anyone can tell me what sovereignty they feel they have just acquired I'll buy them a farm in Trafalgar Square
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,732
    Oh my goodness. Rebekah Vardy really is a total fucking loon.

    Vardy says she is "extremely sad and disappointed at the decision that the judge has reached", adding that it is not the result that she had expected and does not believe is just.

    "I brought this action to vindicate my reputation and am devastated by the judge's finding," she says.

    "The judge accepted that publication of Coleen's post was not in the 'public interest' and she also rejected her claim that I was the 'Secret Wag'. But as for the rest of her judgement, she got it wrong and this is something I cannot accept."


    1) She has vindicated her reputation. We all thought she was a lying idiot before, and a judge has confirmed it.

    2) In saying that the judge has got it wrong, and misrepresenting the judgement, she has now laid herself open to a contempt of court action.

    Is she really as stupid as she looks? I mean - actually?

    Because this is getting ridiculous.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Nigelb said:
    AOC isn't Bernie Sanders - she is a left Democrat. The chances that she starts challenging people in her own party are low to start with.

    Plus she is astute enough to realise that even if she somehow got the nomination, she can't get enough of the centre (such as it is in American politics) to win.
    She'd lose a fair bit of the liberal left as well unless she was up against a maniac Republican candidate.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    The view from Kowloon to the Island is pretty spectacular, especially in that same golden hour.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,729

    I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    To prove she is not Frit.

    Which of course she is...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    I'd have thought Yorkshire would be pretty high up. York, the Moors and the Dales and all that.

    (And, of course, Roundhay in Leeds, now made famous by our next PM.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Foss said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    This VisitEngland spreadsheet thinks it's Devon (at least for 2019).
    It must be wrong, I can't find Newent.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Techne; 1,645; 27-28 July

    Lab 40% (-1)
    Con 33% (+1)
    LD 12% (nc)
    Grn 6% (nc)
    SNP 4% (nc)
    oth 5% (nc)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,732
    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    This VisitEngland spreadsheet thinks it's Devon (at least for 2019).
    It must be wrong, I can't find Newent.
    You go west out of Gloucester and take the first on the right.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,732
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
  • rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    I miss the old Hong Kong airport. The flight to arrive there in amongst high accommodation towers etc had some incredible views out the window that won't be seen anywhere like it nowadays.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    ydoethur said:

    Oh my goodness. Rebekah Vardy really is a total fucking loon.

    Vardy says she is "extremely sad and disappointed at the decision that the judge has reached", adding that it is not the result that she had expected and does not believe is just.

    "I brought this action to vindicate my reputation and am devastated by the judge's finding," she says.

    "The judge accepted that publication of Coleen's post was not in the 'public interest' and she also rejected her claim that I was the 'Secret Wag'. But as for the rest of her judgement, she got it wrong and this is something I cannot accept."


    1) She has vindicated her reputation. We all thought she was a lying idiot before, and a judge has confirmed it.

    2) In saying that the judge has got it wrong, and misrepresenting the judgement, she has now laid herself open to a contempt of court action.

    Is she really as stupid as she looks? I mean - actually?

    Because this is getting ridiculous.

    is she appealing?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,732

    ydoethur said:

    Oh my goodness. Rebekah Vardy really is a total fucking loon.

    Vardy says she is "extremely sad and disappointed at the decision that the judge has reached", adding that it is not the result that she had expected and does not believe is just.

    "I brought this action to vindicate my reputation and am devastated by the judge's finding," she says.

    "The judge accepted that publication of Coleen's post was not in the 'public interest' and she also rejected her claim that I was the 'Secret Wag'. But as for the rest of her judgement, she got it wrong and this is something I cannot accept."


    1) She has vindicated her reputation. We all thought she was a lying idiot before, and a judge has confirmed it.

    2) In saying that the judge has got it wrong, and misrepresenting the judgement, she has now laid herself open to a contempt of court action.

    Is she really as stupid as she looks? I mean - actually?

    Because this is getting ridiculous.

    is she appealing?
    Not to me. And I suspect not to Jamie Vardy very soon...

    I wonder what point of law she would appeal on anyway.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Sean_F said:

    Lennon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    Oxfordshire I'd have thought. Oxford (gets more tourists than Cambridge); Bicester Village (bizarre, but astonishingly well visited); Cotswolds (bits easiest to get to from London).
    Much of the Cotswolds are actually unpleasant in the Summer, with the vast numbers of people.
    Generally not the Oxfordshire bit, which is comparatively quiet. Burford is the only Oxfordshire Cotswold location that gets significant numbers of visitors. It's when you get over to Bourton and Stow in Gloucestershire that you meet the crowds.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 926
    rcs1000 said:

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.

    I think large swathes of Tokyo are pretty dismal...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,605
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Oxon also for Bicester Village outlet shops, whatever those are, apparently.
    A friend working for Ralph Lauren had a voucher that got 40% off any price (including sale prices) - at "Factory Outlets". Went there and cleared out a lot of shirts at £10 a shirt. Low rise shopping mall out in the country, really. Can't really get the love or the hate for the place.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    This VisitEngland spreadsheet thinks it's Devon (at least for 2019).
    It must be wrong, I can't find Newent.
    You go west out of Gloucester and take the first on the right.
    And if you get to Ross-on-Wye, you’ve gone too far.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Eurovision host city 2023

    FAV Glasgow has shortened again, now EVS
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    Doesn't Chicago have a famous architectural river boat cruise?

    And it's been done decades since I was in Hong Kong, but crossing the harbour on the ferry from the island to Kowloon was a visually delightful experience. Not beautiful? Pah!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    County with the least foreign visitors?

    Northants? - just a bit boring all over
    Notts - i suspect Nottingham (robin hood and all that) and sherwood forest just keep it off rock bottom
    Leicestershire - Richard 3 probably gets it off rock bottom
    Lincolnshire? Lincoln is pretty and medieval in its centre but a small city and the rest of Lincolnshire is very remote

    Leics does do better if you include Rutland. And Stamford is in Lincs and pretty touristy with the big Cecil family mansion.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,154
    edited July 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Oxon also for Bicester Village outlet shops, whatever those are, apparently.
    A friend working for Ralph Lauren had a voucher that got 40% off any price (including sale prices) - at "Factory Outlets". Went there and cleared out a lot of shirts at £10 a shirt. Low rise shopping mall out in the country, really. Can't really get the love or the hate for the place.
    I went to Stoke for a night out once and woke up in hospital with my eye socket shattered. Memory is blacked out from the trauma but a random guy high as a kite had attacked me in a club. Never been back since.

    Could have happened anywhere I suppose, but that experience was enough to put me off the city.

    EDIT Misread the post I was replying to, thought it was a response about Stoke.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    edited July 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Oxon also for Bicester Village outlet shops, whatever those are, apparently.
    A friend working for Ralph Lauren had a voucher that got 40% off any price (including sale prices) - at "Factory Outlets". Went there and cleared out a lot of shirts at £10 a shirt. Low rise shopping mall out in the country, really. Can't really get the love or the hate for the place.
    Was staying in London with a friend, and we went to Oxford one Sunday for lunch with an old friend of ours who is a Prof there. I was surprised to be haled off not to Paddington as expected but to Marylebone - the classic Metroland line, of course, which had just been extended to Oxford via the Bicester kink. I was also amazed at the number of Oriental visitors piling onto the train - and even more surprised when they all got off at Bicester Village. On the way back, they all piled back on with their new suitcases full of clothes ...

    PS Wiki: Bicester Village is a designer outlet shopping centre on the outskirts of Bicester, a town in Oxfordshire, England. It is owned by Value Retail plc.[1] The centre opened in 1995. The centre is the second most visited location in the United Kingdom by Chinese tourists, after Buckingham Palace.[2]
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited July 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    If you mean foreign tourists then Avon for Bath or Oxon for Oxford would be my guess - alongside Wilts

    Oxon also for Bicester Village outlet shops, whatever those are, apparently.
    A friend working for Ralph Lauren had a voucher that got 40% off any price (including sale prices) - at "Factory Outlets". Went there and cleared out a lot of shirts at £10 a shirt. Low rise shopping mall out in the country, really. Can't really get the love or the hate for the place.
    It used to be an essential stop for all Chinese tour Parties for some reason.

    Edit. Which reason is explained in the previous post.
    Wonder how many of said garments were made in China?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,182
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    The UK is 75% nondescript?

    There is a sort of OK but largely uninteresting triangle in the middle of the country between Luton, Lincoln and Bromsgrove. That is nondescript. It's a pretty small proportion of the UK, though it assumes disproportionate importance in our national psyche because a very high proportion of internal journeys pass through it.
    But that nondescript triangle is probably only about 10% of the UK. Outside that, the UK ranges from quite descript to very descript indeed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    edited July 2022

    County with the least foreign visitors?

    Northants? - just a bit boring all over
    Notts - i suspect Nottingham (robin hood and all that) and sherwood forest just keep it off rock bottom
    Leicestershire - Richard 3 probably gets it off rock bottom
    Lincolnshire? Lincoln is pretty and medieval in its centre but a small city and the rest of Lincolnshire is very remote

    Rural Northamptonshire is lovely, but probably not at all touristy. There are no famous cities or landmarks, just lots of attractive villages and country houses. Lincolnshire would get a lot of tourists on the coasts.
  • Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    .

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    Doesn't Chicago have a famous architectural river boat cruise?

    And it's been done decades since I was in Hong Kong, but crossing the harbour on the ferry from the island to Kowloon was a visually delightful experience. Not beautiful? Pah!
    I did that Chicago river cruse, it was nice, but for me the most interesting bit was that the river has been engineered to flow 'backwards'

    The mouth of the river now takes water in from the lake and then it goes in to feed a big canal, up river which in tern connects to a tributary of the Mississippi.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    I'd have thought Yorkshire would be pretty high up. York, the Moors and the Dales and all that.

    (And, of course, Roundhay in Leeds, now made famous by our next PM.)
    I read an aircraft mag some years ago which said it was Stratford-on-Avon. Americans visiting 'Shakespeare Country' I suppose.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    pm215 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.

    I think large swathes of Tokyo are pretty dismal...
    I’m guessing @rcs1000 meant “more” not “not”
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,182
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    Chicago! Fantastic City. In the snow there's no city like it. I've worked there loads of times. It's Jazz and Al Capone and America in the 30's. It feels like a film set.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    He meant “more”. It’s an autocorrect thing. Is my supposition

    He’s saying the most beautiful cities are

    Hong Kong
    Chicago
    SF

    He’s totally wrong but it is at least arguable. Unlike what he actually wrote, which is daft
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    You must be pleased. Nearly all the dead are English. Just a few Welsh
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281

    MikeL said:

    Want an example of some totally absurd "journalism"?

    Dan Roan (BBC News Sports Editor) said yesterday that the Commonwealth Games Opening Ceremony would get a global TV audience of 1 billion - ie over 12% of the world's population.

    Well the BARB rating for last night was 4.5m - under 7% of the UK population.

    If it only got 7% in the UK where the event is being held, it certainly couldn't have got 12% worldwide given most of the world isn't even in the Commonwealth - the TV audience in China and the US must have been effectively zero (*).

    Saying that it would get 1 billion is totally and utterly absurd and destroys any pretence at serious journalism.

    I would be surprised if it even got close to 100m.

    (*) A useful point of reference - the Wimbledon Mens Final shown which is shown live in the US on ESPN got between 2m and 3m - under 1% of the US population.

    The population of the Commonwealth is 2.5bn, roughly one-third of the global population.

    The London Olympics 2012 opening ceremony was said to have a TV audience of 900 million, including 27 million in the UK.

    So the UK audience was one-sixth of 2012 levels, and fair to assume it would be zero outside the Commonwealth, so my best guess rough estimate would be a global audience of 50 million.
    Yes, that looks about right.

    Roan said 1 billion. A reasonable estimate is 50 million.

    Now people might say "who cares" it doesn't matter.

    But it was the first report at the very top of the BBC1 10pm News. If Roan is just making up a number so far outside what could possibly be credible - how can anyone rely on any other numbers the BBC might give in respect of more serious issues like the economy, NHS, schools or whatever.

    Everybody has a reputation. Once you get caught making up complete rubbish you lose it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    edited July 2022

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
    Happy memories of megalith and beer hunts in Wiltshire when a young chap and the pubs were closed during the afternoon so we had to go and hunt megaliths in between. I was back in Marlborough a few years back - funeral of a friend's father - a very pleasant town, as is the Kennet & Avon Canal and the chalk ridges to north and south.

    PS one of my favourite spots is the dry chalkland valley still with the sarsens scattered over it, a little to the west of Marlborough.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    On topic, perhaps Truss's potential appeal to Labour voters has also been underestimated:

    @thhamilton
    My big worry about Liz Truss, from a pro-Labour point of view, is that having listened to quite a lot of (older) interviews with her she comes across really well. On a personal level, in a way that hasn’t been true of any Tory leader in my lifetime, I *like* her.


    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1552921024618024960
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    I have no desire to denigrate Bedfordshire.
    My experience consists entirely of avoiding the Delice de France kiosk at Luton Airport.
    Luton airport is shit. Utterly so.

    Old Warden is a lovely place to stay in summer. I went there for a wedding (held on the grounds of the Shuttleworth Collection). Lovely country walks all around, unspoilt tiny village. The B & B in the village is really nice and the local pub is good as well.
    Seeing the huge old R100 and R101 airship hangars at Cardington between OW and Bedford is a treat for a tech history geek, of course.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh my goodness. Rebekah Vardy really is a total fucking loon.

    Vardy says she is "extremely sad and disappointed at the decision that the judge has reached", adding that it is not the result that she had expected and does not believe is just.

    "I brought this action to vindicate my reputation and am devastated by the judge's finding," she says.

    "The judge accepted that publication of Coleen's post was not in the 'public interest' and she also rejected her claim that I was the 'Secret Wag'. But as for the rest of her judgement, she got it wrong and this is something I cannot accept."


    1) She has vindicated her reputation. We all thought she was a lying idiot before, and a judge has confirmed it.

    2) In saying that the judge has got it wrong, and misrepresenting the judgement, she has now laid herself open to a contempt of court action.

    Is she really as stupid as she looks? I mean - actually?

    Because this is getting ridiculous.

    is she appealing?
    Not to me. And I suspect not to Jamie Vardy very soon...

    I wonder what point of law she would appeal on anyway.
    You do seem to have it in for the poor woman. Just imagine the forcefulness and simplicity with which she must have been advised by everyone at all stages not to proceed with this, and reflect that she must be literally mad.

    Not contempt to say the court got it wrong, if you don't go overboard in how you say it.
  • Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
    Happy memories of megalith and beer hunts in Wiltshire when a young chap and the pubs were closed during the afternoon so we had to go and hunt megaliths in between. I was back in Marlborough a few years back - funeral of a friend's father - a very pleasant town, as is the Kennet & Avon Canal and the chalk ridges to north and south.

    PS one of my favourite spots is the dry chalkland valley still with the sarsens scattered over it, a little to the west of Marlborough.
    I think we had one of the best Jubilee street parties


  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    Actually.

    I miswrote

    I meant that only Hong Kong and Chicago are not beautiful than San Francisco. From a distance.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    Doesn't Chicago have a famous architectural river boat cruise?

    And it's been done decades since I was in Hong Kong, but crossing the harbour on the ferry from the island to Kowloon was a visually delightful experience. Not beautiful? Pah!
    I was doing the old swipe to type.

    And "not" and "more" get confused.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    Actually.

    I miswrote

    I meant that only Hong Kong and Chicago are not beautiful than San Francisco. From a distance.
    You did it again.

    more beautiful?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    Actually.

    I miswrote

    I meant that only Hong Kong and Chicago are not beautiful than San Francisco. From a distance.
    You did it again.

    more beautiful?
    Damn it.

    Yes.

    Bloody swipe to type.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
  • 40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    Deaths from heat tend to be overexaggerated in a lot of reporting as deaths due to cold are considered more "normal" so deaths due to heat tend to be counted as "exceptional" even when they're lower.

    Cold is more deadly than heat.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    Ooh, the Shuttleworth Collection. To anyone who hasn’t been, go. The most astonishing living museum of aviation, go on a nice day in the summer and watch the Tiger Moths flying.
    Although, those expecting it to be dedicated to the works of John Shuttleworth may be a tad disappointed......
    If you go early enough on a flying day you can park the car in the front line and picnic while they start up a few dozen yards away. I used to have a friend living nearby so went regularly with him; but he moved away. However, I took Mrs C down for tyhe last visit and she was entranced by it all - from the hand swung props on the WW1 ones to the Spitfire and, in the evening, the Magnificent Men oldies out on their metaphorical zimmer frames in the evening calm.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    I have no desire to denigrate Bedfordshire.
    My experience consists entirely of avoiding the Delice de France kiosk at Luton Airport.
    Luton airport is shit. Utterly so.

    Old Warden is a lovely place to stay in summer. I went there for a wedding (held on the grounds of the Shuttleworth Collection). Lovely country walks all around, unspoilt tiny village. The B & B in the village is really nice and the local pub is good as well.
    Seeing the huge old R100 and R101 airship hangars at Cardington between OW and Bedford is a treat for a tech history geek, of course.
    They aren't pretty, but they are fascinating, like much industrial architecture.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    Doesn't Chicago have a famous architectural river boat cruise?

    And it's been done decades since I was in Hong Kong, but crossing the harbour on the ferry from the island to Kowloon was a visually delightful experience. Not beautiful? Pah!
    I was doing the old swipe to type.

    And "not" and "more" get confused.
    As I surmised. I disagree however

    Hong Kong is magical at night, especially seen from Kowloon - but a number of Asian cities have “copied” its template: water plus skyscrapers. Singapore and Shanghai to name two. And Shanghai has more history, dynamism and charm

    Chicago is a handsome city, but again it’s been copied

    The most beautiful city “from a distance” would be Florence. The sight of it as you descend from the Tuscan hills - the Duomo sitting grandly in the middle. Heart breakingly perfect


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
    Happy memories of megalith and beer hunts in Wiltshire when a young chap and the pubs were closed during the afternoon so we had to go and hunt megaliths in between. I was back in Marlborough a few years back - funeral of a friend's father - a very pleasant town, as is the Kennet & Avon Canal and the chalk ridges to north and south.

    PS one of my favourite spots is the dry chalkland valley still with the sarsens scattered over it, a little to the west of Marlborough.
    I think we had one of the best Jubilee street parties


    Oh yes - it has that enormous old wide high street for the old markets. We stayed in a hotel about halfway along on the north side for the funeral party (so to speak).
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    On topic, perhaps Truss's potential appeal to Labour voters has also been underestimated:

    @thhamilton
    My big worry about Liz Truss, from a pro-Labour point of view, is that having listened to quite a lot of (older) interviews with her she comes across really well. On a personal level, in a way that hasn’t been true of any Tory leader in my lifetime, I *like* her.


    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1552921024618024960

    I'm wondering if I was taken in by a lot of partisan coverage in forming a negative view of her capabilities (not talking about policies). If she is reasonably pragmatic I'm beginning to wonder if Tories might recover and even sneak a majority at next GE? Early days, she hasn't even won leadership contest yet, but I've always felt there is a strong resistance/reluctance to give current LP a majority among a good portion of non-traditional Tory voters. Economy might do for her - but you could argue that LP does better after a crises is over not during it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    I reckon a good fifth of politics based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    And that's why I don't subscribe to the New Scientist. It isn't even pop sci, it's just an aggregation of badly written, breathless, Daily Mail level pieces. This guy just has a model which says if so many days of such temps, so many deaths.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    He meant “more”. It’s an autocorrect thing. Is my supposition

    He’s saying the most beautiful cities are

    Hong Kong
    Chicago
    SF

    He’s totally wrong but it is at least arguable. Unlike what he actually wrote, which is daft
    Which cities are more beautiful (from a distance) than those three?

    Maybe Lyon. Perhaps Sydney. Vancouver can be quite pretty on a nice day. Rome has its moments.

    But other than those, I'm really struggling to think of any. None of the Chinese cities are particularly attractive. And I love London, but it's not beautiful. Nor, frankly, is Paris.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    And that's why I don't subscribe to the New Scientist. It isn't even pop sci, it's just an aggregation of badly written, breathless, Daily Mail level pieces. This guy just has a model which says if so many days of such temps, so many deaths.
    And the model is probably bollocks, most such models are. If you can get breathless reporting without all the faff of doing something that needs to be peer reviewed ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    On topic, perhaps Truss's potential appeal to Labour voters has also been underestimated:

    @thhamilton
    My big worry about Liz Truss, from a pro-Labour point of view, is that having listened to quite a lot of (older) interviews with her she comes across really well. On a personal level, in a way that hasn’t been true of any Tory leader in my lifetime, I *like* her.


    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1552921024618024960

    Doubt it will make too much difference to be honest even if he is right. The economy is going to be so terrible over coming two years that it is going to be very very hard for Tories to get a majority and they have little chance of coalition.

    As Martin Lewis is saying we are looking at civil unrest levels of poverty over energy never mind the rest of the inflation.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    On topic, perhaps Truss's potential appeal to Labour voters has also been underestimated:

    @thhamilton
    My big worry about Liz Truss, from a pro-Labour point of view, is that having listened to quite a lot of (older) interviews with her she comes across really well. On a personal level, in a way that hasn’t been true of any Tory leader in my lifetime, I *like* her.


    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1552921024618024960

    I'm wondering if I was taken in by a lot of partisan coverage in forming a negative view of her capabilities (not talking about policies). If she is reasonably pragmatic I'm beginning to wonder if Tories might recover and even sneak a majority at next GE? Early days, she hasn't even won leadership contest yet, but I've always felt there is a strong resistance/reluctance to give current LP a majority among a good portion of non-traditional Tory voters. Economy might do for her - but you could argue that LP does better after a crises is over not during it.
    Con Maj currently 3.85
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    And that's why I don't subscribe to the New Scientist. It isn't even pop sci, it's just an aggregation of badly written, breathless, Daily Mail level pieces. This guy just has a model which says if so many days of such temps, so many deaths.
    The Daily Mail is much better. It has a really good science/tech editor and they publish fascinating articles. Probably the best paper for that. Weirdly
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    I have no desire to denigrate Bedfordshire.
    My experience consists entirely of avoiding the Delice de France kiosk at Luton Airport.
    Luton airport is shit. Utterly so.

    Old Warden is a lovely place to stay in summer. I went there for a wedding (held on the grounds of the Shuttleworth Collection). Lovely country walks all around, unspoilt tiny village. The B & B in the village is really nice and the local pub is good as well.
    Seeing the huge old R100 and R101 airship hangars at Cardington between OW and Bedford is a treat for a tech history geek, of course.
    They aren't pretty, but they are fascinating, like much industrial architecture.
    They’re absolutely massive (150’ tall and 800’ long), and can be seen from miles away.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    And that's why I don't subscribe to the New Scientist. It isn't even pop sci, it's just an aggregation of badly written, breathless, Daily Mail level pieces. This guy just has a model which says if so many days of such temps, so many deaths.
    The Daily Mail is much better. It has a really good science/tech editor and they publish fascinating articles. Probably the best paper for that. Weirdly
    Btw The Great series 2 on Ch 4
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    edited July 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    fuck it here’s my list of the top ten most beautiful countries on earth based on criteria I’ve plucked from my colon


    1. France
    2. China
    3. India
    4. Italy
    5. Montenegro
    6. Japan
    7. USA
    8. Switzerland
    9. UK
    10. Chile

    I hope that settles things

    What kind of Socialist Remainer Traitor has France at one and England at nine?
    France is 100 times more beautiful than England. The only thing saving the Yookay from total humiliation in such a list is Wales, Scotland and the stolen bit of Ireland.
    The Lakes say hi. Likewise the Cotswolds the marches the dales the West Country the Thames valley Northumbria and Cornwall

    England is paradoxical. It has some shockingly ugly bits and some painfully banal bits, but it has managed to preserve some of the most stunning places on the planet

    And anyway this is about the UK

    UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside.
    England is 5% beautiful and 95% rough/nondescript.
    Can I just check - have you visited every single part of it, to check it out? Because if not your claim is worthless.
    He dare not. It is full of these uniform folk called the English, and they all make him feel very inferior.
    There are all sort of places that are beautiful, but completely off the tourist trail. Most of North Hertfordshire and rural Bedfordshire, for example.
    This is the first time in the history of ever that I’ve heard someone rhapsodise about rural Bedfordshire.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong (I don’t know), but it certainly belies its reputation.
    I've always had a soft spot for Berkshire too. Nobody I've heard of goes there on holiday but it's got some gorgeous countryside. The North Wessex Downs are better known but I've had some fabulous walks near Bracknell.
    Bedfordshire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Warden

    A beautiful little village, just round the corner from the Shuttleworth Collection. Lots of lovely country walks in the surrounding area.
    Ooh, the Shuttleworth Collection. To anyone who hasn’t been, go. The most astonishing living museum of aviation, go on a nice day in the summer and watch the Tiger Moths flying.
    Although, those expecting it to be dedicated to the works of John Shuttleworth may be a tad disappointed......
    If you go early enough on a flying day you can park the car in the front line and picnic while they start up a few dozen yards away. I used to have a friend living nearby so went regularly with him; but he moved away. However, I took Mrs C down for tyhe last visit and she was entranced by it all - from the hand swung props on the WW1 ones to the Spitfire and, in the evening, the Magnificent Men oldies out on their metaphorical zimmer frames in the evening calm.
    BTW a Friday teatime anecdote for our techies: one day we saw the Desoutter monoplane suffer aileron flutter - very visibly, flapping from upper to lower extremes so fast it was a blur - right opposite where we were, in the middle of the frontage. Mercifully the pilot cut the throttle at once and the reduced speed lost the flutter, but it was quite a demonstration of divergent oscillation in aeronautics, which killed so many over the decades.

    https://www.key.aero/article/aeroplane-archive
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,800
    Yikes...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62351166

    "At least 16 people have died due to historic flash flooding caused by torrential rains in eastern Kentucky, the US state's governor has said.

    Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear said that he expects the death toll to continue to rise.

    "We know some of the loss will include children, we may have even lost entire families," Mr Beshear said in a video posted online on Friday morning"
  • Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
    Happy memories of megalith and beer hunts in Wiltshire when a young chap and the pubs were closed during the afternoon so we had to go and hunt megaliths in between. I was back in Marlborough a few years back - funeral of a friend's father - a very pleasant town, as is the Kennet & Avon Canal and the chalk ridges to north and south.

    PS one of my favourite spots is the dry chalkland valley still with the sarsens scattered over it, a little to the west of Marlborough.
    One of my best friend's Gran lives in Lockeridge out that way. Her house backs on to West Woods where the Stonehenge sarsen stones came from
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    I asked on the previous thread, but don’t think anyone responded:

    With Sunak now at 9/1 (and seemingly lengthening by the hour), what price a Sunak withdrawal?

    I speculated recently (today?) that Liz Truss might want to make Rishi an offer of a job in return for pulling out but unless there is a market for Boris to be replaced in August rather than September, it is probably not worth too much thinking time.

    Incidentally, Betfair has £14,000 at 1.01 that Boris will go in 2022, which speaks to the time value of money or some such.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,910

    ydoethur said:

    Oh my goodness. Rebekah Vardy really is a total fucking loon.

    Vardy says she is "extremely sad and disappointed at the decision that the judge has reached", adding that it is not the result that she had expected and does not believe is just.

    "I brought this action to vindicate my reputation and am devastated by the judge's finding," she says.

    "The judge accepted that publication of Coleen's post was not in the 'public interest' and she also rejected her claim that I was the 'Secret Wag'. But as for the rest of her judgement, she got it wrong and this is something I cannot accept."


    1) She has vindicated her reputation. We all thought she was a lying idiot before, and a judge has confirmed it.

    2) In saying that the judge has got it wrong, and misrepresenting the judgement, she has now laid herself open to a contempt of court action.

    Is she really as stupid as she looks? I mean - actually?

    Because this is getting ridiculous.

    is she appealing?
    I don't find her appealing at all!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,082

    I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
    Fine, until she needs to do a tough interview to change the game. In 2024, perhaps.

    By continually ducking tough questions on the way up, Johnson never got good at them. And once he was at the summit, it showed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    Yosemite
    Big Sur
    San Francisco (on a sunny day)
    Lake Tahoe
    Park City

    And that's just a tiny part of the South West corner of the US.

    Disagree on SF. It's a dump. Trash everywhere, homeless people doing heroin or fentanyl all over the place, random violence, actual shit in the street and it's got literal elite of tech workers who have simply removed themselves from the community, they live there but don't contribute at all.
    Sure, but so long as you don't get too close, then the sun glinting off the bay and the skyscrapers is incredibly beautiful.

    I'd argue only Chicago and Hong Kong, in the world, are not beautiful cities.
    You've never been to Stoke, have you?
    Yes, this is quite a claim by Robert - Chicago and Hong Kong are the only two non-beautiful cities in the world? Of all the cities in the world, the bottom two places for looks are taken up by Chicago and Hong Kong?
    Surely there must be more to this?
    He meant “more”. It’s an autocorrect thing. Is my supposition

    He’s saying the most beautiful cities are

    Hong Kong
    Chicago
    SF

    He’s totally wrong but it is at least arguable. Unlike what he actually wrote, which is daft
    Which cities are more beautiful (from a distance) than those three?

    Maybe Lyon. Perhaps Sydney. Vancouver can be quite pretty on a nice day. Rome has its moments.

    But other than those, I'm really struggling to think of any. None of the Chinese cities are particularly attractive. And I love London, but it's not beautiful. Nor, frankly, is Paris.
    I don’t understand this “from a distance” thing. What cities are experienced “from a distance”? They are lived in

    But, as I say upthread, if that is your criterion Florence wins


    And are you really arguing Paris is not beautiful? Have you ever been? It’s got some grotty bits and some major problems - but large parts of central Paris are magnificent

    And I say that as a patriotic Brit who honestly believes London is the greater and more interesting city. But Paris is definitely beautiful

    I’d say Venice is the most beautiful city of all. Paris is second. Prague is overrated. Fuck Krakow. Cambridge is in the top 10
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    UK + Int? Devon or Cornwall would be my guess.
    I was thinking of international tourists, should have specified

    Oxford is a huge tourist draw. When I was at Christ Church there were more tourists than students walking around almost every afternoon, and that was before they sort of used the dining hall in Harry Potter

    Wiltshire should be even more popular. I've been quite disappointed by the numbers at Avebury when I've had to change bus there. I've had to spend nearly two hours a week there and haven't seen more than twenty tourists there at any one time. It's not got the iconic image of its Amesbury relative, but it's a far more interactive monument - you can eat a picnic in its shade

    I think my own town, Marlborough, should sell itself better too. It might be bollocks, but there's a theory that the name is from "Merlin's Barrow", and that Merlin was thought to buried underneath the "Mound" at Marlborough College, which is an ancient manmade hill built around the same time as Silbury Hill. It's obviously bollocks that "Merlin", the wizard, was buried there. But it might be true that the town was named so because people believed it

    About twenty five years ago I was working in a pub here, and a couple were staying who had come on an Arthurian adventure. They'd randomly selected Marlborough as a place to stay on their way west to Welsh and Cornish places that claim to have connections to Arthur or the Knights of the Round Table. They had no idea about the Marlborough legend. I've never seen two people so excited to be in Marlborough
    Happy memories of megalith and beer hunts in Wiltshire when a young chap and the pubs were closed during the afternoon so we had to go and hunt megaliths in between. I was back in Marlborough a few years back - funeral of a friend's father - a very pleasant town, as is the Kennet & Avon Canal and the chalk ridges to north and south.

    PS one of my favourite spots is the dry chalkland valley still with the sarsens scattered over it, a little to the west of Marlborough.
    I think we had one of the best Jubilee street parties


    Oh yes - it has that enormous old wide high street for the old markets. We stayed in a hotel about halfway along on the north side for the funeral party (so to speak).
    The Castle & Ball?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    I asked on the previous thread, but don’t think anyone responded:

    With Sunak now at 9/1 (and seemingly lengthening by the hour), what price a Sunak withdrawal?

    I speculated recently (today?) that Liz Truss might want to make Rishi an offer of a job in return for pulling out but unless there is a market for Boris to be replaced in August rather than September, it is probably not worth too much thinking time.

    Incidentally, Betfair has £14,000 at 1.01 that Boris will go in 2022, which speaks to the time value of money or some such.
    With inflation at 9%, that’s just about an inflation hedge if the contest concludes on Sep 5th.

    Time value of money is now an important concept in long-term betting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    40°C heatwave may have killed 1000 people in England and Wales

    First estimate of extreme heat's impact suggests that more than half of the deaths are expected to have been in people aged 85 and older

    Antonio Gasparrini at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine estimates that 948 people died in England and Wales because of the sweltering conditions between 17 and 19 July. More than half, 495 people, are estimated to have been aged 85 or older, a group that compromises roughly 2 per cent of the nations’ population.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2331349-40c-heatwave-may-have-killed-1000-people-in-england-and-wales/

    "The numbers are derived from modelling how many deaths would be expected in different parts of the country depending on how high temperatures go, rather than the observed number of excess deaths during a heatwave." In other words it is a prediction with the model having the status of a hypothesis. The it gets reported and forwarded in a simplistic manner and no doubt will soon be quoted by campaigners as fact.
    I reckon a good fifth of science based stories are based on taking the words "may have", "could have" and "up to" and substituting the words "are" and "is".
    And that's why I don't subscribe to the New Scientist. It isn't even pop sci, it's just an aggregation of badly written, breathless, Daily Mail level pieces. This guy just has a model which says if so many days of such temps, so many deaths.
    The Daily Mail is much better. It has a really good science/tech editor and they publish fascinating articles. Probably the best paper for that. Weirdly
    Btw The Great series 2 on Ch 4
    Indeed. I’m trying to resist bingeing. Apparently season 2 is just as good as season 1 if not better! Yayyyy
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,182
    edited July 2022
    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    edited July 2022

    I see OGH has tweeted "So big brave Truss is scared of being interviewed by Andrew Neil and she wants to be PM. Chicken".

    He is right, but why would Truss agree? There is no upside to being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She's winning. Why put that at risk?

    Precisely, not chicken just smart politics. Its a gamble she doesn't need to take.

    Just as Blair refused to allow any debates etc - trying to set the media agenda to be the most positive to you it can be is sensible advice every politician takes.
    Fine, until she needs to do a tough interview to change the game. In 2024, perhaps.

    By continually ducking tough questions on the way up, Johnson never got good at them. And once he was at the summit, it showed.
    It also betrays a lack of ambition. If she really wants to change the country she needs to speak to the country and convince it to follow her. She will have limited opportunities to get across her argument. She shouldn't be passing them up.

    Now, sure, a safety-first approach of ducking the interview is more likely to get her into Number Ten, but if she's always choosing the safer option then she's less likely to do anything useful once she's there.

    The fundamental political skill is to change people's minds, to convince them to follow you. Not going to happen if you hide from them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux
This discussion has been closed.