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Betting on a Tory poll lead in September – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,753
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,808
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    I dont think Paris is that beautiful but certainly interesting and soulful . New Orleans similar . Edinburgh is more twee than beautiful and New York is more shock n awe than beautiful (also Las Vegas) - For beauty I think central european cities like Prague, Dubrovnik and Budapest are good candidates
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Where's Newent?
    It's the most beautiful and significant place in the world a small town 9 miles northwest of Gloucester.

    Leon. @Mexicanpete and I troll each other over it on a regular basis and I suspect this is another such.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,753
    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,396
    edited July 2022

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    Oi! I was brought up in Benfleet. Mark François has nothing to do with Benfleet he's MP for Rayleigh.

    And the Benfleet Downs and the Hadleigh Country Park were my playground as a youth!

    To be fair though, Castle Point, which is now the District Council, has one of the lowest percentages of graduates as residents in the country. And I left, as did my graduate children and grandchildren!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,948


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    Very much not.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    I asked on the previous thread, but don’t think anyone responded:

    With Sunak now at 9/1 (and seemingly lengthening by the hour), what price a Sunak withdrawal?

    I speculated recently (today?) that Liz Truss might want to make Rishi an offer of a job in return for pulling out but unless there is a market for Boris to be replaced in August rather than September, it is probably not worth too much thinking time.

    Incidentally, Betfair has £14,000 at 1.01 that Boris will go in 2022, which speaks to the time value of money or some such.
    With inflation at 9%, that’s just about an inflation hedge if the contest concludes on Sep 5th.

    Time value of money is now an important concept in long-term betting.
    Indeed. A sound subject for a PB header imho.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,475
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    I'd put Staffs above Shropshire. It's got everything Shropshire has, but more variety and interest in it.

    It's also got Stoke, but Shropshire has Telford.
    Staffordshire's an odd one: the big perception of it is the M6, which doesn't show it at its best. West Staffs is like Shropshire; north east Staffs is the Peak District, both of which have much to recommend them. And I particularly like the area around Abbot's Bromley.

    I'm sticking with my preferences as they are I like Shropshire a lot - but one of the beauties of a discussion like this is that most people will stick up for their local area - from which I infer that there is far more beauty worth discovering than even someone like me who is fairly well traveled in the UK has found.
    Staffordshire is one of the most most underrated counties in England, but most people in the county would probably prefer it to remain that way because too many tourists often ruin an area.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    I actually rather like the M5 viaduct out of Birmingham. It makes me happy. On the way south, it's 'M6 over - now holiday is starting'; on the way north it's 'M5 over - nearly home'.
    And the raised element gives a good view over the black country, which is actually more interesting than you think it is going to be, and certainly more pleasant than the M6 through the urban West Midlands.
    Oh, *out* of Birmingham, the M5 viaduct is a lovely view of the countryside. But most of my experience was of doing a weekly commute from down South to up North on a Monday morning, and the M5/M6 junction was the inevitable pinch point no matter from which way it was approached. I ended up switching to the M42 and M6 Toll.

    I’ll vote for the M6 toll as the best road in the country, the only thing that would make it better is raising the speed limit!
    My wife and I see eye to eye on most things, but one of the few things guaranteed to cause a row (aside from any visit to Bent's Garden Centre near Leigh, and wrapping Christmas presents for the kids) is the M6 toll road. She loves it; I'm sure she's almost go out of her way to use it; I resent paying £5.50 for a saving which I generally reckon to be rather less than ten minutes.
    It's pleasant to drive down, but £5.50's worth of pleasant? One of those things I irrationally resent paying for. I'd happily spend £5.50 on wholly unneccessary cake.
    £5.50? Do you get off at an intermediate junction or have you just not used it for a long time?

    I think my answer is, it's worth it at rush hour, probably not otherwise. I would routinely save 15 minutes a day by using it to drive to work, which for the reduced rate of £2.90 I negotiated with them, plus the massively reduced stress, was definitely worth it.
    I haven't used it for about a decade, and I don't think I've ever paid for it myself!

    I once did some analysis of economic justifications for toll roads. If you use value of time measures, it's very difficult to set a toll low enough so that people are motivated to use it by the time saving but high enough so you can afford to build the road. You have to justify it on the qualitative experience "you won't save that much time, but pay us this sum and you'll find the next 20 minutes much more pleasant than you otherwise might".
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,753
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,271
    RH1992 said:

    The stories coming out of Ukraine today are rekindling my desire to see NATO engage directly in the war on Ukraine's side to bring it to a swift conclusion.

    If it wasn't for the big stockpile of nuclear weapons that Russia has I think the rest of NATO would be halfway to liberating Crimea by this point.
    We have nuclear weapons too. Why isn't Russia deterred from doing the stuff it's doing by our nuclear weapons?

    I find it hard to believe that Russia would turn to nuclear weapons to defend its occupation of Melitopol. It's absurd. The amount of evil we're allowing to happen by being intimidated by the Russians is sickening.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,948

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    I guess you'll be asking for this article to be deleted, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    The A130 is a superb piece of road, actually, built far above spec, admittedly, but there you go.
    I was one of the first people to drive the new section replacing the road through Rettendon on opening day in 2002. You could do some serious speed on it for sure.
    But its a road from Hell to other Hell through Wide Boy and Pie Hell
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    On your Montenegro rule, my favourite is Laon


    Siena.
    I remember a medieval (mostly) art gallery in Sienna - after seeing the 147th version of Madonna and Child by various artists, the physical shock of a Dürer was interesting....
    Know the feeling. I traipsed around the Uffizzi until I knew I would scream if I saw one more Botticelli.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Good:

    LONDON, July 29 (Reuters) - The UK's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) said on Friday it has been directed by the government to temporarily relax permitting conditions for coal-fired power stations in England during the winter period.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/britain-keep-coal-fired-power-plants-open-this-winter-2022-07-29/

    Everyone needs to ignore environmental bollocks, and find ways to get as much locally-produced power as possible over the winter. I’d be buying diesel generators, red diesel is going to be as cheap as grid power at some point.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Ely is a small town that's a city

    Cambridge is a nearby relative giant
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,753
    Driver said:

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    I guess you'll be asking for this article to be deleted, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex
    Note in the lead it says "historic county", now making up part of the current Ceremonial County of Greater London.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    RH1992 said:

    The stories coming out of Ukraine today are rekindling my desire to see NATO engage directly in the war on Ukraine's side to bring it to a swift conclusion.

    If it wasn't for the big stockpile of nuclear weapons that Russia has I think the rest of NATO would be halfway to liberating Crimea by this point.
    We have nuclear weapons too. Why isn't Russia deterred from doing the stuff it's doing by our nuclear weapons?

    I find it hard to believe that Russia would turn to nuclear weapons to defend its occupation of Melitopol. It's absurd. The amount of evil we're allowing to happen by being intimidated by the Russians is sickening.
    Always amazes me the number of people who haven’t seen Dr Strangelove.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    It doesn't have a county council. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if we have to subdivide the country somehow for discussions of this sort, how would you propose to do it? I'm not going to list all 300-odd local government units.
    I'm not saying that local government has to equate to the counties which have been around since Norman times. (Though there are some arguments for that.) I just want an immutable set of subdivisions to use. And somewhere to identify with - I'm not going to start changing what my home county is every time there's a local government reorganisation.

    Lots of places which don't have county councils still have other institutions which cover the territory of the historical county (more or less). The Cheshire RFU. The Chester Diocesan Guild of Change Ringers. And so on. Hell, Middlesex even has a rather famous cricket club associated with it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    Oi! I was brought up in Benfleet. Mark François has nothing to do with Benfleet he's MP for Rayleigh.

    And the Benfleet Downs and the Hadleigh Country Park were my playground as a youth!

    To be fair though, Castle Point, which is now the District Council, has one of the lowest percentages of graduates as residents in the country. And I left, as did my graduate children and grandchildren!
    My apologies! To be fair my scorn and despair is from a very unhappy time i lived in the area (Witham) in the early millenium. Essex and me, we were not a team.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035

    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
    Delusions of grandeur.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    You're right.

    What person would be so utterly lost in taste as to compare Lichfield to a shitheap like Beijing?

    Edit - and of course, by your criteria, Beijing isn't a city anyway, as it has no parliamentary constituencies...
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    Yes, but there's a qualifying word 'great' (meaning large) in there.

    In the UK its a city if the queen says it is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    It doesn't have a county council. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if we have to subdivide the country somehow for discussions of this sort, how would you propose to do it? I'm not going to list all 300-odd local government units.
    I'm not saying that local government has to equate to the counties which have been around since Norman times. (Though there are some arguments for that.) I just want an immutable set of subdivisions to use. And somewhere to identify with - I'm not going to start changing what my home county is every time there's a local government reorganisation.

    Lots of places which don't have county councils still have other institutions which cover the territory of the historical county (more or less). The Cheshire RFU. The Chester Diocesan Guild of Change Ringers. And so on. Hell, Middlesex even has a rather famous cricket club associated with it.
    Not a very good one though (albeit Gloucestershire can't talk right now)!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,271
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,948

    Driver said:

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    I guess you'll be asking for this article to be deleted, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex
    Note in the lead it says "historic county"
    I did note that. Did you note that "historic counties" is what Cookie was talking about from the very beginning of this discussion?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309
    Loathe as I am to bring us back to the topic, it's just occurred to me that the Vardys may well be having their legal fees bankrolled by The Sun/Rupert Murdoch, as it seems it was a Sun reporter that was highly instrumental in creating the situation which provided the tabloids with so much copy.

    Anybody else had the same thought? It would certainly help explain why the couple pursued such a hopeless case to such lengths.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    Of course Cambridge is a city, it has a population over 100,000

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge
    That means that Bedford is practically a city.

    Which would be absurd.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    List of places that are simultaneously beautiful, amazing and a city.....
    Norwich

    Everywhere else is not.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,271

    RH1992 said:

    The stories coming out of Ukraine today are rekindling my desire to see NATO engage directly in the war on Ukraine's side to bring it to a swift conclusion.

    If it wasn't for the big stockpile of nuclear weapons that Russia has I think the rest of NATO would be halfway to liberating Crimea by this point.
    We have nuclear weapons too. Why isn't Russia deterred from doing the stuff it's doing by our nuclear weapons?

    I find it hard to believe that Russia would turn to nuclear weapons to defend its occupation of Melitopol. It's absurd. The amount of evil we're allowing to happen by being intimidated by the Russians is sickening.
    Always amazes me the number of people who haven’t seen Dr Strangelove.
    Watched it many times. Have the DVD. Don't see its relevance to the subject at hand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
    Most of them are. After all, if we don't include vanity airports that's Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham and Sheffield out as well.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,475
    O/T

    "Medicating Complexity
    That antidepressants may have little or no effectiveness should not surprise us.
    Theodore Dalrymple"

    https://www.city-journal.org/the-complexities-of-depression
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,396

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    The A130 is a superb piece of road, actually, built far above spec, admittedly, but there you go.
    I was one of the first people to drive the new section replacing the road through Rettendon on opening day in 2002. You could do some serious speed on it for sure.
    But its a road from Hell to other Hell through Wide Boy and Pie Hell
    I remember when the last section was opened, that to the Magic Roundabout just outside Benfleet. I drove down from North Essex to Basildon, where I then worked, and phoned my wife to say I've got to work in 40 minutes instead of the usual hour.
    It was one week before I retired!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728

    Driver said:

    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    It doesn't exist as a county any more, sorry.
    I guess you'll be asking for this article to be deleted, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex
    Note in the lead it says "historic county", now making up part of the current Ceremonial County of Greater London.
    Yes, if you look back to my original point, I said 'historical counties'.

    See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_counties_of_England
    No less valid than ceremonial counties, and more widely understood. We all here know what we're talking about with the historic counties. Who here is 100% sure what the ceremonial counties are?


    ...

    Those ticking the hills on this list, for example:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_of_England_and_Wales_in_1964_by_highest_point

    are rather more common than those ticking the hills on this list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ceremonial_counties_of_England_by_highest_point
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
    Apologies for the surreal non-seq.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    As opposed to the many cities in the US, with populations of a handful of thousand?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
    Apologies for the surreal non-seq.
    I rather enjoyed it, to be honest. We need more of those, particularly in the midst of more heated discussions.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Cookie said:


    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.

    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.

    Somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the foreign tourists’ first experience of the UK, is in Middlesex.
    Middlesex hasn't existed since 1965...
    Middlesex hasn't been an administrative area since 1965, you mean. And Cookie wasn't talking about administrative areas...
    For Middlesex, you mean Greater London.
    No, I mean Middlesex. The area roughly equivalent to Greater London north of the Thames and west of the Lea, plus Staines.
    Minus bits of old Herts and old Bucks
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    The A130 is a superb piece of road, actually, built far above spec, admittedly, but there you go.
    I was one of the first people to drive the new section replacing the road through Rettendon on opening day in 2002. You could do some serious speed on it for sure.
    But its a road from Hell to other Hell through Wide Boy and Pie Hell
    I remember when the last section was opened, that to the Magic Roundabout just outside Benfleet. I drove down from North Essex to Basildon, where I then worked, and phoned my wife to say I've got to work in 40 minutes instead of the usual hour.
    It was one week before I retired!
    It made it much quicker for me to fail to get people to invest in dodgy investment products in the post 9/11 economic wilderness certainly!
  • Rosie Duffield has been re-selected
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384

    Loathe as I am to bring us back to the topic, it's just occurred to me that the Vardys may well be having their legal fees bankrolled by The Sun/Rupert Murdoch, as it seems it was a Sun reporter that was highly instrumental in creating the situation which provided the tabloids with so much copy.

    Anybody else had the same thought? It would certainly help explain why the couple pursued such a hopeless case to such lengths.

    May explain why 2 Scousers were so determined.
    The Echo is ecstatic.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    You're right.

    What person would be so utterly lost in taste as to compare Lichfield to a shitheap like Beijing?

    Edit - and of course, by your criteria, Beijing isn't a city anyway, as it has no parliamentary constituencies...
    Nor a charter from the monarch. Hell, it's not even a town.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    Yes, but there's a qualifying word 'great' (meaning large) in there.

    In the UK its a city if the queen says it is.
    If we're comparing places in different countries, we need to have common standards. And, frankly, the Queen declaring something doesn't cut it.

    So, I'm going with:

    - own airport with regularly scheduled services
    - transit system with more than just buses
    - at least 4x the population of Bedford

    If you don't like my conditions, then tough. They are reasonable and well reasoned.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,658
    edited July 2022

    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
    It isn't, even in US terms Cambridge is a medium sized city.

    US exit polls for example say big cities have a population over 500,000, medium sized cities a population from
    50,000 to 500,000 and towns a population from 10,000 to 50,000.

    Everything else is rural or suburbia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Rosie Duffield has been re-selected

    Con GAIN Rosie once Liz is crowned. Shes gagging for the blue life
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,396
    edited July 2022

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    Oi! I was brought up in Benfleet. Mark François has nothing to do with Benfleet he's MP for Rayleigh.

    And the Benfleet Downs and the Hadleigh Country Park were my playground as a youth!

    To be fair though, Castle Point, which is now the District Council, has one of the lowest percentages of graduates as residents in the country. And I left, as did my graduate children and grandchildren!
    My apologies! To be fair my scorn and despair is from a very unhappy time i lived in the area (Witham) in the early millenium. Essex and me, we were not a team.
    I live not far from Witham now. It is not the place that it was when I first knew it in the late 40s!

    Later. My evening meal is ready so goodbye folks!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
    It isn't, even in US terms Cambridge is a medium sized city.

    US exit polls for example say big cities have a population over 100,000, medium sized cities a population from
    50,000 to 100,000 and small towns a population from 10,000 to 50,000.

    Everything else is rural

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

    So, how big is a large town?

    And how big is a small city?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    Yes, but there's a qualifying word 'great' (meaning large) in there.

    In the UK its a city if the queen says it is.
    If we're comparing places in different countries, we need to have common standards. And, frankly, the Queen declaring something doesn't cut it.

    So, I'm going with:

    - own airport with regularly scheduled services
    - transit system with more than just buses
    - at least 4x the population of Bedford

    If you don't like my conditions, then tough. They are reasonable and well reasoned.
    Aren't you confusing the different concepts of 'metropolis' and 'city'?

    What you've described is a large urban area. What we're talking about is a 'city,' which is a particular appellation applied to certain urban areas, of varying size.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,035
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    As opposed to the many cities in the US, with populations of a handful of thousand?
    Exactly.

    Hence my completely objective three criteria that I've listed.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
    Apologies for the surreal non-seq.
    I rather enjoyed it, to be honest. We need more of those, particularly in the midst of more heated discussions.
    Wednesday is bin day in Winchcombe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
    Apologies for the surreal non-seq.
    I rather enjoyed it, to be honest. We need more of those, particularly in the midst of more heated discussions.
    Wednesday is bin day in Winchcombe.
    That attempt at deflecting attention was a load of rubbish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,658
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
    It isn't, even in US terms Cambridge is a medium sized city.

    US exit polls for example say big cities have a population over 100,000, medium sized cities a population from
    50,000 to 100,000 and small towns a population from 10,000 to 50,000.

    Everything else is rural

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

    So, how big is a large town?

    And how big is a small city?
    A large town in UK terms would be 50 to 100,000. In US terms it would be a small city
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    Not sure that the grassy, rolling sea of the Sussex Downs should come below Norfolk and Suffolk, which are mind-numbingly boring and flat.
    What about the most soul-destroying road in the UK. I will make a strong case for the A47.
    A47 goes through Rutland, one of the nicest parts of the country.

    I’ll go with the M5 viaduct into Birmingham, or maybe the M6 viaduct into Birmingham.
    M4 west, junctions 16 (Swindon) to 18 (Bath) is unremittingly dull.
    The A47 is an incredibly dull road, especially either side of Kings Lynn, it used to have a fantastic greasy spoon cafe at Necton, now gone.
    However the A17 beats it for sheer depression.
    When i used to be allowed to drive by the health nazis and holidayed in Scotland there was simply nothing worse than homeward bound driving all day to reach Newark and having 2 hours of A17, A47 to go.........
    The A130 is also a pointless shit of a road that serves only to take you from Chelmsford where you don't want to be to Rayleigh, Wickford or sodding Benfleet where nobody except Mark Francois wants to be
    Oi! I was brought up in Benfleet. Mark François has nothing to do with Benfleet he's MP for Rayleigh.

    And the Benfleet Downs and the Hadleigh Country Park were my playground as a youth!

    To be fair though, Castle Point, which is now the District Council, has one of the lowest percentages of graduates as residents in the country. And I left, as did my graduate children and grandchildren!
    My apologies! To be fair my scorn and despair is from a very unhappy time i lived in the area (Witham) in the early millenium. Essex and me, we were not a team.
    I live not far from Witham now. It is not the place that it was when I first knew it in the late 40s!
    I have a wry smile as the train goes past the station between Norwich and London.
    I once managed to fail to stay awake between Hatfield Peverel and Witham on the last train of the night and had to cab it from Colchester. That, i think, is a metaphor for every moment of my life in Essex
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836

    What's the English county outside London most visited by tourists?

    I guess Wiltshire must be quite high due to Stonehenge (and proximity to London)

    Yorkshire? Warwickshire (Stratford ) , Oxfordshire
    Kent, surely? If you count just passing through.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Loathe as I am to bring us back to the topic, it's just occurred to me that the Vardys may well be having their legal fees bankrolled by The Sun/Rupert Murdoch, as it seems it was a Sun reporter that was highly instrumental in creating the situation which provided the tabloids with so much copy.

    Anybody else had the same thought? It would certainly help explain why the couple pursued such a hopeless case to such lengths.

    If Murdoch is bankrolling Vardy, that would prove Mrs Rooney’s original claim beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the newspaper revealing it’s sources. I reckon Jamie Vardy gets the bill.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    Are you sure?
    image
    It isn't, even in US terms Cambridge is a medium sized city.

    US exit polls for example say big cities have a population over 100,000, medium sized cities a population from
    50,000 to 100,000 and small towns a population from 10,000 to 50,000.

    Everything else is rural

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

    So, how big is a large town?

    And how big is a small city?
    Swindon 220,000
    St David’s 1,600
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    Yes, but there's a qualifying word 'great' (meaning large) in there.

    In the UK its a city if the queen says it is.
    If we're comparing places in different countries, we need to have common standards. And, frankly, the Queen declaring something doesn't cut it.

    So, I'm going with:

    - own airport with regularly scheduled services
    - transit system with more than just buses
    - at least 4x the population of Bedford

    If you don't like my conditions, then tough. They are reasonable and well reasoned.
    Leeds doesn't make it then.
  • It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    City of London. 130,000.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,475
    edited July 2022

    Rosie Duffield has been re-selected

    Canterbury is likely to swing further to Labour I'd have thought.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
    Most of them are. After all, if we don't include vanity airports that's Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham and Sheffield out as well.
    I wonder if I am alone on pb.com in having flown from all three of those airports?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,717

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.


    You could argue that in a list like this there ought to be two Essex's North and South. North Essex, away from the coast in the Tendring area, has some extremely attractive villages and well preserved, historic small towns. Poor South Essex has been attacked by overspill and small-scale industrialisation.
    Maldon has grown on me over the years. Family live there so I visit quite often.
    Some nice pubs and a very nice walk along the river to the statue of Earl Britnoth. Who was an adviser to King Ethelred the Badly Advised (aka Unready) and one can see how he got the job!
    He'd be astounded and delighted if he were to be told that the lay about his bravery against the Northmen is still being sung today, albeit in academia (and just possibly one or two film or TV series, I suspect).
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309
    edited July 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Paris? Are you on crack? Doesn't even make the top 25 worldwide.

    Cambridge is a small town, not a city.

    New Orleans. Not a chance.

    And New York may be impressive, but it's nowhere near as beautiful as Chicago.

    Venice I will grant you. And I've never been to St Petersburg, so I'll you have that one.
    Cambridge was made a city in 1951.
    Ever been to Jaipur? I thought it was breathtaking.
    Odd non-sequitur.
    I think Pete meant to reply to an earlier post. Jaipur is stunning
    Apologies for the surreal non-seq.
    I rather enjoyed it, to be honest. We need more of those, particularly in the midst of more heated discussions.
    Wednesday is bin day in Winchcombe.
    That attempt at deflecting attention was a load of rubbish.
    We should have a thread where every post has nothing to do with the thread header or any other previous post. April 1st would be a good day for it.

    (Some posters would of course find the task easier than others.)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,742

    Loathe as I am to bring us back to the topic, it's just occurred to me that the Vardys may well be having their legal fees bankrolled by The Sun/Rupert Murdoch, as it seems it was a Sun reporter that was highly instrumental in creating the situation which provided the tabloids with so much copy.

    Anybody else had the same thought? It would certainly help explain why the couple pursued such a hopeless case to such lengths.

    I've heard of lawyers offering no win, no fee without the client understanding they can still get wiped out by the other side's costs.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022
    Lots of labour MPs joining pickets tomorrow apparently. Lets see how Strongman Starmer asserts his authority over them.
    Im predicting he will do nothing and hope it all goes away
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously mate - see if you can dial it down.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited July 2022

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    CHB dude, it's not so much the drink as the fact that I think you are having a manic episode. have you been diagnosed bipolar?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
    Most of them are. After all, if we don't include vanity airports that's Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham and Sheffield out as well.
    I wonder if I am alone on pb.com in having flown from all three of those airports?
    With that adjustment, I'm confident in answering 'yes.'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,742

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Some of us are staying sober for the last ever Neighbours on Channel 5 tonight.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    FPT for @OllyT


    "UK undoubtedly has some beautiful parts but mainly in protected National Park areas. Whereas France is 75% beautiful and 25% rough/nondescript the UK (is probably 25% beautiful and 75% rough/nondescript. As we are so overcrowded the beautiful areas tend to be overrun with people whereas in France you can drive for miles in glorious unspoilt countryside."

    ++++


    I wouldn't demur with any of that. This is why I put France at #1 and the UK at #9. Plus the French climate is superior (for now) and their urbanism less spoiled

    But the UK is still beautiful in parts, and splendidly varied, with an often-glorious coastline and some divine cityscapes - Cambridge! - and on a world ranking is right up there. It's just not as impressive as France, but France is number 1

    Which brings us to the bigger point. European countries crowd the top spots of "Most Beautiful Countries", which is why Europe, as a whole, gets more tourists than anywhere on earth. The tourists aren't dumb

    There are some natural landscapes that, individually, are more breath-taking than anywhere in Europe - the Antarctic Peninsula for sure, perhaps the wilds of the American West, Greenland, Ethiopia, bits of Oz, central Asia, NZ (apparently, haven't been), and so on, but for overall beauty, Europe sweeps the prizes

    The Telegraph list is bonkers, and is merely designed to stir up arguments. Which it has done. So well done that editor

    I am consistently surprised by this attitude on PB. Most of France that I've been to has not struck me as particularly attractive. I lived in Nice for 3 months, travelled a bit in the South, and the North, been to Paris, the French Alps. There's a lot of it I haven't seen, but my abiding impression is of villages with ugly billboards shittily stuck everywhere, severely over-pollarded trees, genteel suburban decay, and dodging dogshit in the city centres. I am sure the countryside is pleasant in the places I haven't been to. For comparison, I grew up in West Sussex near the Surrey border, which is nice but not spectacular. I now live in Scotland, which is stunningly beautiful, so perhaps I've been spoiled. I think some PBers, even the professed patriots, think there's something more glamorous about French squallor than British squallor.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331

    Rosie Duffield has been re-selected

    Con GAIN Rosie once Liz is crowned. Shes gagging for the blue life
    Don't think so somehow; standing for re-selection isn't really a sign of a switcher.
    More interestingly, Rosie Duffield has been selected despite (or because of?) her views on trans issues, that don't please some.
    Perhaps Labour isn't quite as daft on these issues as some on here would like to believe?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously mate - see if you can dial it down.
    Seriously mate, we need to mix up our salutations a bit.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331
    Sandpit said:

    City of London. 130,000.

    Is that base salary per citizen?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Beautiful is in the eye, etc, and beauty close up or beauty viewed from a distance?

    But if you mean their overall visual impression I wouldn’t put Paris at number two, noting that London doesn’t make the list at all. Prague ought to qualify, as, IMHO, should Bergamo. You could make a case for Naples, given its setting. Edinburgh has its dramatic castle, yes, but the rest of it? Top ten in the world, I don’t think so. New York deserves lots of superlatives, but I wouldn’t put beauty among them.
  • Devil's Den by Clatford between Marlborough and Lockeridge

    Maybe there were stones like this joining Avebury and Amesbury?

    Pretty ugly compared to the Scotland region



  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,305
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously mate - see if you can dial it down.
    Seriously mate, we need to mix up our salutations a bit.
    Alarmingly buster, this is not a matter for joking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.






    A flawed list since the IOW doesn’t even appear.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously mate - see if you can dial it down.
    Seriously mate, we need to mix up our salutations a bit.
    Alarmingly buster, this is not a matter for joking.
    Earnestly my friend, I agree.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,271
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    As opposed to the many cities in the US, with populations of a handful of thousand?
    Exactly.

    Hence my completely objective three criteria that I've listed.
    My definition of a city is somewhere large enough that the public transport system is so good there's no point in having a car.

    Towns are places that should be big enough to support a decent public transport system, but they don't due to a lack of investment.

    Rural areas are those where a decent public transport system is an impossible fantasy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
    Most of them are. After all, if we don't include vanity airports that's Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham and Sheffield out as well.
    I wonder if I am alone on pb.com in having flown from all three of those airports?
    With that adjustment, I'm confident in answering 'yes.'
    :smile:

    I will even add that I am one of the rare air travellers who likes to arrive at an airport by public transport, and so have arrived at Nottingham and Sheffield (more correctly, I think these days, Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield, or RHADS) by bus.
    They look at you in blank astonishment if you emerge from Nottingham airport and ask where the bus stops are.
  • It's all just a bit of fun, get the pints in! Shots shots shots!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,717

    Devil's Den by Clatford between Marlborough and Lockeridge

    Maybe there were stones like this joining Avebury and Amesbury?

    Pretty ugly compared to the Scotland region



    Don't know. I was just thinking about the view over the Vale of Pewsey from Knap Hill above Alton Priors (where I suspect there was a pub in the CAMRA guide c. 1980, as well).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously mate - see if you can dial it down.
    Seriously mate, we need to mix up our salutations a bit.
    Alarmingly buster, this is not a matter for joking.
    Earnestly my friend, I agree.
    See here chum, I think we should just let CHB have his oats for now, until he rediscovers the joy of being sober. Because I don't think remonstrating is working. He'll be fine.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,475

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    I think you've proved my point.

    Can you imagine a sentence starting "Beijing, in common with other great cities like Lichfield"?

    No. Me neither.
    As opposed to the many cities in the US, with populations of a handful of thousand?
    Exactly.

    Hence my completely objective three criteria that I've listed.
    My definition of a city is somewhere large enough that the public transport system is so good there's no point in having a car.

    Towns are places that should be big enough to support a decent public transport system, but they don't due to a lack of investment.

    Rural areas are those where a decent public transport system is an impossible fantasy.
    My definition of a city is somewhere with an ancient cathedral.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Because this is the sort of thing I cannot help doing, I have ranked all 39 historical English counties for loveliness. Necessarily highly subjective and almost solely an aesthetic thing - it doesn't take into account how much fun you can have there.
    Middlesex comes bottom only because being entirely urban it is sui generis - of course lots about London is lovely.


    1 Westmorland
    2 Devon
    3 Cumberland
    4 Cornwall
    5 Derbyshire
    6 Northumberland
    7 Yorkshire
    8 Lancashire
    9 Shropshire
    10 Herefordshire
    11 Cheshire
    12 Dorset
    13 Wiltshire
    14 Somerset
    15 Suffolk
    16 Norfolk
    17 Gloucestershire
    18 Worcestershire
    19 Durham
    20 Sussex
    21 Oxfordshire
    22 Buckinghamshire
    23 Berskhire
    24 Surrey
    25 Hampshire
    26 Northamptonshire
    27 Warwickshire
    28 Staffordshire
    29 Kent
    30 Cambridgeshire
    31 Rutland
    32 Leciestershire
    33 Hertfordshire
    34 Nottinghamshire
    35 Bedfordshire
    36 Lincolnshire
    37 Essex
    38 Huntingdonshire
    39 Middlesex

    The general pattern is the west and north are lovelier. To me, anyway. I can well appreciate that to some the ideal will be the big open skies of Norfolk or the soft rolling hills of Oxfordshire.


    A flawed list since the IOW doesn’t even appear.
    Historically part of Hampshire.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,450

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Seriously pal (just to be different…) avoid the shots/spirits. Not only do they mess you up medically more than beer and wine you will just get into the immense high/immense low the next morning cycle that you will only cope with by starting the high again with the booze or find yourself trying to cope with the worst booze blues and alconoia the next day and end up in a v bad place.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597

    It's all just a bit of fun, get the pints in! Shots shots shots!

    What again?

    This is your third night in a row iirc?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,963
    edited July 2022

    It's time for!!! Shots shots shots!

    Have fun, have a jager for me. 🥃

    Shots and parental life don't really go that well together, so I'm rather boring now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    Andy_JS said:

    Rosie Duffield has been re-selected

    Canterbury is likely to swing further to Labour I'd have thought.
    Indeed, it’s an island of educated common sense amid the ocean of rural Kentish seats that voted Brexit and now find their roads chock-full of lorries and frustrated tourists trying to leave the country, with police checkpoints on every major road junction.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,717
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    I'd have to put Dubrovnik in the top ten.

    The foreign city I most enjoy is Naples.
    I would put both Grenada in Spain and Urbino in Italy in my top ten. Both cities where you could almost imagine you are back in medieval times

    I certainly wouldn't call either Cambridge or NYC beautiful. Fascinating perhaps but not beautiful.
    Cambridge is quite beautiful, from certain angles. But it's still not a city, no matter what @ydoethur or the British government claims.

    NYC is impressive, but not beautiful.
    I'm intrigued. What's your definition of a city?
    I have several requirements, which include (but are not limited to):

    * Own airport with regular scheduled services
    * At least two parliamentary constituencies
    So basically - there are hardly any cities in England? Because by your logic, Worcester, Hereford, Exeter, Lichfield, Canterbury, Carlisle, Gloucester, Stoke, Derby, Truro, Chester, Lancaster, Chichester, Salisbury, Bath, Wells, are not cities - and that's without even going into detail.

    And I think outside England only Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff and Belfast would qualify.
    Cardiff is only hanging on to its airport due to Welsh government largesse. Does a vanity airport count?
    Most of them are. After all, if we don't include vanity airports that's Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham and Sheffield out as well.
    I wonder if I am alone on pb.com in having flown from all three of those airports?
    With that adjustment, I'm confident in answering 'yes.'
    :smile:

    I will even add that I am one of the rare air travellers who likes to arrive at an airport by public transport, and so have arrived at Nottingham and Sheffield (more correctly, I think these days, Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield, or RHADS) by bus.
    They look at you in blank astonishment if you emerge from Nottingham airport and ask where the bus stops are.
    Nottingham City Airport? Not EMA?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,271
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Right then. As I’m on a boringly air conditioned train to Richmond, my top ten beautiful cities


    1. Venice
    2. Paris
    3. St Petersburg
    4. Florence
    5. New Orleans
    6. Cambridge
    7. Hong Kong
    8. New York City
    9. Edinburgh
    10. Newent
    11. Bordeaux

    Beautiful is in the eye, etc, and beauty close up or beauty viewed from a distance?

    But if you mean their overall visual impression I wouldn’t put Paris at number two, noting that London doesn’t make the list at all. Prague ought to qualify, as, IMHO, should Bergamo. You could make a case for Naples, given its setting. Edinburgh has its dramatic castle, yes, but the rest of it? Top ten in the world, I don’t think so. New York deserves lots of superlatives, but I wouldn’t put beauty among them.
    In defence of Edinburgh, it has the New Town, as well as the Old. It has the hills, not just the central hills of the Castle, Calton and Arthur's Seat, but other hills around the city from which it can be best viewed, such as Blackford Hill. It has the Water of Leith and Dean Village. It's a lot more than just the castle.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309

    Loathe as I am to bring us back to the topic, it's just occurred to me that the Vardys may well be having their legal fees bankrolled by The Sun/Rupert Murdoch, as it seems it was a Sun reporter that was highly instrumental in creating the situation which provided the tabloids with so much copy.

    Anybody else had the same thought? It would certainly help explain why the couple pursued such a hopeless case to such lengths.

    I've heard of lawyers offering no win, no fee without the client understanding they can still get wiped out by the other side's costs.
    Mebbe, but since it was blindingly obvious Vardy would lose I cannot imagine such an arrangement would have been offered.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,753
    Cookie said:

    And so on. Hell, Middlesex even has a rather famous cricket club associated with it.

    But we've been through this before - standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
This discussion has been closed.