politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum claims its first casualty – Alex Salmond
BBC report on Salmond pic.twitter.com/Y4feUFJoeM
Comments
-
wow0
-
Oh and first
0 -
David Cameron is Malleus Salmondtorum0
-
Pulpstar Posts: 8,403
1:06PM
SeanT said:
Salmond will surely resign now, or soon after the next GE? He looked a broken man in that car.
Sturgeon is ready and able to replace.
If he quite shortly he can retire with honour, having nearly done the inconceivable, and while he is still revered by his disciples; or he can trundle on, gradually earning more resentment.
If he's got any political sense (which he has, in spades) he will go, and go soon.
To take the 9-4 on him going before the 22nd though, that's the betting question.
Noone answered !0 -
Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.0 -
I'm sure he'll play some part in future efforts. Too valuable an asset to abandon as a political force.0
-
Bah
0 -
It would almost be worth having Pork back to read what he has to say today.TheScreamingEagles said:
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.
Well, almost! And just for the one day obviously.
0 -
What a bitter rant he is giving here - to hand picked journos.
Soft balled to the end .0 -
Defeated by Gordon Brown, you mean.TheScreamingEagles said:Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.0 -
He's more or less said that to Jon Snow.....kle4 said:I'm sure he'll play some part in future efforts. Too valuable an asset to abandon as a political force.
0 -
Rejoice! Rejoice!0
-
In the final duel for the union, only one man could survive and only one did, David Cameron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rFT-uHm4w0 -
I did suggest yesterday that Salmond might resign because he may think that devolution negotiations would be easier under another leader.0
-
Nicola Sturgeon nailed on ?0
-
I think Miliband will be sending some SPADs out to hide all the scythes, remove all the blades from lawnmowers and put all the sheep into upper pastures.
The grass needs to be long to hide the EVEL ball he's kicked.0 -
I saw that hucks ,put a bit of money on it so pleasedhucks67 said:I did suggest yesterday that Salmond might resign because he may think that devolution negotiations would be easier under another leader.
0 -
The only man in the room laughing at his "jokes" - refusing to face the defeat.
Suddenly the air smells fresher.0 -
Salmond is 60 in three months' time; maybe that had something to do with it.0
-
I thought Salmond would cling on till GE2015. May have had a wee push on the way out.
Trying the, as SeanT said, Bonnie Prince Charlie routine.
Instead, he looks like an old, dirty, nasty, smelly sock with about as much grace as one.0 -
The Scots had the choice of either having Salmond as their Prime Minister or Cameron as Prime Minister. They chose wisely.Hugh said:
Defeated by Gordon Brown, you mean.TheScreamingEagles said:Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.0 -
Try Kelly's place. Pork has been firing intermittent bursts from the ham cannon all day.Neil said:
It would almost be worth having Pork back to read what he has to say today.TheScreamingEagles said:
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.
Well, almost! And just for the one day obviously.
Though it would be fun to have him him back for a little while.0 -
Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.0 -
Anyone nostalgic for his particular syle of rhetoric can easily find his comments on ScotGoesPop, for example here:Neil said:It would almost be worth having Pork back to read what he has to say today.
Well, almost! And just for the one day obviously.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=930120922627919768&postID=8288999413723991579&isPopup=true
I particularly liked "PB Stormfront Lite "0 -
MarkHopkins, September 14
If it's a Yes, then Cameron may resign, or he may not for the reasons that have been discussed.
If it's a No, then Salmond is finished as a politician; the generational opportunity will be over.
0 -
No one else remember that Mr Salmond's had to resign before?
0 -
Indeed. He won't be missed by many in the media.TGOHF said:The only man in the room laughing at his "jokes" - refusing to face the defeat.
Suddenly the air smells fresher.
Gordon Brown odds to replace him?
Typical oily, slimey, wringling, obsequious, dishonest response from Miliband to the planned change of constitutional powers. The man is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. Actually, why waste the vocabulary? He's a shit.0 -
Cameron's speech when he admitted that he and his party are loathed and will soon be gone probably helped, I suppose.TheScreamingEagles said:
The Scots had the choice of either having Salmond as their Prime Minister or Cameron as Prime Minister. They chose wisely.Hugh said:
Defeated by Gordon Brown, you mean.TheScreamingEagles said:Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.0 -
The other side of the Gaza War.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4706/gazan-hamas-war-crimes
Gazans Speak Out: Hamas War Crimes0 -
I think this was unnecessary if correct. He raised the SNP from a rag bag team to a party on the cusp of independence [ his goal always ] through dempcratic means.
Easily the most formidable politician amongst the current lot.
Why is he going ? He is not interested in being just a FM. He wanted to be PM of an independent Scotland. His bar was set quite high !
I hope this rumour is not ciorrect, if it is a rumour.0 -
Well, it is not really a surprise. He had left politics before and then came back when the SNP started to do very poorly, so it is not surprising that he is going again.
Hopefully, the SNP will revert to their previous state as a fringe party.0 -
All politicians end in failure = Salmond, the man who nearly broke the Bank at Monte Carlo.0
-
Good.0
-
In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !0
-
Hopefully they perform like they did when Swinney was in charge.0
-
"We lost the referendum vote but can still carry the political initiative. More importantly Scotland can still emerge as the real winner."
Huh, strange that he didn't mention this before the vote. He sounds like a solid No0 -
Just shows what a narcissistic agenda he had. Idi Amin was closer to being King of Scotland.0
-
What are the odds on Labour winning both Wesminster and Holyrood ?Beverley_C said:Well, it is not really a surprise. He had left politics before and then came back when the SNP started to do very poorly, so it is not surprising that he is going again.
Hopefully, the SNP will revert to their previous state as a fringe party.0 -
F*** off !MikeK said:The other side of the Gaza War.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4706/gazan-hamas-war-crimes
Gazans Speak Out: Hamas War Crimes0 -
Salmond lied and lied and lied again. His promises of freedom and jam were deeply mendacious. It would have been freedom and vinegar - by the bucketful. He deserves this.0
-
No, Sturgeon is cold and lacks emotion, she will repel people easily.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
As for the next referendum, if it ever happens it will be after the oil has run out.
Since scottish nationalisism is economically based on north sea oil, it will run out with it.0 -
Hannibal Salmond.TheScreamingEagles said:Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.0 -
Surprised to see him go so quickly. Maybe he is just plain burnt-out by it all?0
-
Yep. He took on all comers - easily saw off Cameron, eventually saw off Darling, took on the Rightwing Establishment media and won....surbiton said:In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !
But at the last he came up against the only political force in the UK capable of beating him - Gordon Brown.0 -
You know, I agree. Sturgeon especially.Speedy said:
No, Sturgeon is cold and lacks emotion, she will repel people easily.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
As for the next referendum, if it ever happens it will be after the oil has run out.
Since scottish nationalisism is economically based on north sea oil, it will run out with it.0 -
Scotch Salmond - stuffed then canned.0
-
I couldn't agree more. I had quite a lot of respect for Salmond as an operator at the beginning, then the lies of an expert confidence trickster just piled up and up.
He needed to be taken out. That the electorate did it in spades just makes it all the more poignant. Eventually, enough saw through it. Salmond = the Bernie Madoff of politics.Patrick said:Salmond lied and lied and lied again. His promises of freedom and jam were deeply mendacious. It would have been freedom and vinegar - by the bucketful. He deserves this.
0 -
If I had managed to achieveSimonStClare said:All politicians end in failure = Salmond, the man who nearly broke the Bank at Monte Carlo.
1. a huge defeat for SLAB and establishing SNP as the natural government of Scotland in one minority and one majority election in a parliament gerrymandered to make [edit] the latter impossible
2. an actual democratic referendum
3.(probably) another massive chunk of damage on SLAB
4.frightening the Unionist party leaders out of their lives (or pushing them to give a very good impersonation) and making them make promises which they have to keep or else
and 5. making independence more popular than Tory or even Labour rule from Westminsiter (even though not more popular than staying in the UK)
from when the SNP was a fringe party and when he has never had the patronage options of the other parties (Commons and Lords) and all on incessant attack from the media the like of which I can't recall since the days of Neil Kinnock
I wouldn't think I had done too badly.
0 -
It struck me his wife being 77 might be a bigger factor. He's done all politically that he can do, maybe it's time for family.AndyJS said:Salmond is 60 in three months' time; maybe that had something to do with it.
0 -
Whoever takes over has a huge task to keep the SNP together now that independence is off the table for a while. The party basically has to start again, so a new leader makes sense; but how many have the experience and guile to do that?0
-
Sometimes the "velvet" approach does not work ! The SNP started winning Parliamentary seats since 1967. You have to ask who took them from a rag bag team , first to government and then to the cusp of independence. Only one man !Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
The government, by all accounts, is also reasonably popular !
I heard his Perth speech on Wednesday night. I am a socialist. I could hardly disagree with anything he said. No wonder they carried Glasgow. It is the middle class Labour vote who stuck to NO.0 -
"Social research and polling expert Rachel Ormiston at ScotCen has contacted my colleague Severin Carrell to point out that only 14 people aged 16 and 17 were polled by Lord Ashcroft, a very small sample that makes the 71% yes vote figure quite unreliable, in her view. It’s certainly worth bearing in mind when looking at the figures – and before making judgments about younger v older voters."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/19/scotland-votes-no-in-independence-referendum-live-coverage0 -
Tom McNulty tweets: What a nice man - Salmond barred Mail, Telegraph and Express journos from his resignation press conference. Guardian refuse to go as result0
-
No, the 1.8 million who voted 'No' took him down.surbiton said:In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !
Camp Miliband are really up shit creek if there's a 'Biggin up Broon' campaign rolling.
Isn't he the man who took Labour to their second worst election defeat?
0 -
How about a poll on PoliticalBetting as to what the solution of West Lothian question will be / ought to be.
Why does everyone keep saying whatever the result yesterday the world or at least the relationship between Scotland and the UK has changed for good. In other words where is the support for maintaining the status quo or even devo-reversed? How do we know the majority of people in the UK as a whole do not want to preserve the current level of devolution?0 -
Quite high now.surbiton said:
What are the odds on Labour winning both Wesminster and Holyrood ?Beverley_C said:Well, it is not really a surprise. He had left politics before and then came back when the SNP started to do very poorly, so it is not surprising that he is going again.
Hopefully, the SNP will revert to their previous state as a fringe party.
If Brown wants to become First Minister, in order to bury the SNP for good, he will.0 -
Will anyone stand against the Jimmy Krankie look-a-like ?
0 -
It was claimed last night that every constituency in Glasgow voted Yes. Since the margin was 25,000 and there are 7 constituencies, that would mean each one voted Yes by around 3,500 votes which on the face of it seems a bit unlikely.0
-
PB mod I hope this is ok to reply to "Hugh"Hugh said:
Yep. He took on all comers - easily saw off Cameron, eventually saw off Darling, took on the Rightwing Establishment media and won....surbiton said:In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !
But at the last he came up against the only political force in the UK capable of beating him - Gordon Brown.
Haha this trolling is great you are desperate for a bite aren't you?
Throw in a few Gideon's, that might help
0 -
Exactly and fpt at some point also, I can't imagine anyone else leading the line in the forthcoming negotiations with Westminster. OK he misspoke a couple of times but he is the consumate politician and I will miss his presence.Carnyx said:
If I had managed to achieveSimonStClare said:All politicians end in failure = Salmond, the man who nearly broke the Bank at Monte Carlo.
1. a huge defeat for SLAB and establishing SNP as the natural government of Scotland in one minority and one majority election in a parliament gerrymandered to make [edit] the latter impossible
2. an actual democratic referendum
3.(probably) another massive chunk of damage on SLAB
4.frightening the Unionist party leaders out of their lives (or pushing them to give a very good impersonation) and making them make promises which they have to keep or else
and 5. making independence more popular than Tory or even Labour rule from Westminsiter (even though not more popular than staying in the UK)
from when the SNP was a fringe party and when he has never had the patronage options of the other parties (Commons and Lords) and all on incessant attack from the media the like of which I can't recall since the days of Neil Kinnock
I wouldn't think I had done too badly.
Plus also I really really don't think he needed to resign as you say, that's quite some achievement(s).0 -
What a non sequitur.SeanT said:CarlottaVance said:
He's more or less said that to Jon Snow.....kle4 said:I'm sure he'll play some part in future efforts. Too valuable an asset to abandon as a political force.
He's a far superior politician to Cameron and Miliband.
He was just defeated by reality.
That's exactly why he isn't a far superior politician to Cameron. (I'll leave shit-face Miliband out of it.)
Having a grasp of reality is essential if you are to be a great politician. Cameron has that by the bucket load. Blair and Clinton even more.
Real guile is knowing how to gain, and retain, power. Salmond was stuck so far up his own posterior that he failed to judge the mood. Close, but no cigar. And in politics the winner takes all.
That failure to grasp reality is also, incidentally, why Boris will never make PM or if he does God help us all.
0 -
So will the the 2015 General Election be Cameron's Carrhae?SeanT said:
Salmond is Spartacus, Cameron is Crassus.Alanbrooke said:
Hannibal Salmond.TheScreamingEagles said:Salmond isn't a failure. He nearly ended the Union.
That said Salmond was defeated by Cameron, the incompetent, out of touch English Tory toff.
0 -
I'm getting adverts for the impeach Obama campaign and for Muslim dating websites. You have to question their targeting mechanism.0
-
it will split. Salmond's the glue.SouthamObserver said:Whoever takes over has a huge task to keep the SNP together now that independence is off the table for a while. The party basically has to start again, so a new leader makes sense; but how many have the experience and guile to do that?
A party that has Jim Sillars and Brian Souter under one roof isn't stable now that Indy is off the table.0 -
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.0 -
wow.0
-
The 18-24's voted NO, so that is a good proxy.AndyJS said:"Social research and polling expert Rachel Ormiston at ScotCen has contacted my colleague Severin Carrell to point out that only 14 people aged 16 and 17 were polled by Lord Ashcroft, a very small sample that makes the 71% yes vote figure quite unreliable, in her view. It’s certainly worth bearing in mind when looking at the figures – and before making judgments about younger v older voters."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/19/scotland-votes-no-in-independence-referendum-live-coverage0 -
Plenty of bitter rants on this thread! "All political careers end in failure", but his was as close as you usually get to qualified success. No reason not to wish him a happy retirement.TGOHF said:What a bitter rant he is giving here - to hand picked journos.
Soft balled to the end .
0 -
I think you'll find it was over 2 million that voted noTheWatcher said:
No, the 1.8 million who voted 'No' took him down.surbiton said:In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !
Camp Miliband are really up shit creek if there's a 'Biggin up Broon' campaign rolling.
Isn't he the man who took Labour to their second worst election defeat?0 -
His hectoring, paranoia, dismissal of rancour, and hubristic triumphalism - probably driven by his narcissism - cost YES a lot of swing voters in the last week, I think. If he'd played his cards right, he could have run NO much closer.
He forgot he needed to address the moderate undecideds, not his pumped up core vote.0 -
Don't be mean to Reggie.isam said:
PB mod I hope this is ok to reply to "Hugh"Hugh said:
Yep. He took on all comers - easily saw off Cameron, eventually saw off Darling, took on the Rightwing Establishment media and won....surbiton said:In the end, he was felled by another Scot, the Broon himself !
But at the last he came up against the only political force in the UK capable of beating him - Gordon Brown.
Haha this trolling is great you are desperate for a bite aren't you?
Throw in a few Gideon's, that might help0 -
Well done supporters of English independence: Here is a song for Unckie'....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNay_f2zaJ0
EtA:
Unkie' Clown English? Pfft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnkjOHVK-H40 -
Salmond says he'll stand for his seat again in 2016.0
-
Speedy said:
Quite high now.surbiton said:
What are the odds on Labour winning both Wesminster and Holyrood ?Beverley_C said:Well, it is not really a surprise. He had left politics before and then came back when the SNP started to do very poorly, so it is not surprising that he is going again.
Hopefully, the SNP will revert to their previous state as a fringe party.
If Brown wants to become First Minister, in order to bury the SNP for good, he will.
Don't forget Nicola Sturgeon is the most popular major pol in Scotland by a long chalk. The various poll tables differ, but she's almost or always at the top.
0 -
We're happy - playing music - hope the neighbours don't think it's gloating....0
-
She reminds of Yvette Cooper - a cold fish.AllyM said:
You know, I agree. Sturgeon especially.Speedy said:
No, Sturgeon is cold and lacks emotion, she will repel people easily.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
As for the next referendum, if it ever happens it will be after the oil has run out.
Since scottish nationalisism is economically based on north sea oil, it will run out with it.0 -
I've seen quite a few posts on Scottish nationalist forums seriously discussing emigration. They are completely emotionally broken.SouthamObserver said:Whoever takes over has a huge task to keep the SNP together now that independence is off the table for a while. The party basically has to start again, so a new leader makes sense; but how many have the experience and guile to do that?
0 -
O/T
Some fellow has tweeted a formula that apparently gives value of pi to the first 42 billion digits. Very neat an elegant it is too. Unfortunately it is the form of a ".png" image and I have no idea how to get one of those on here.
Belike, else (I forgot it was talk like a pirate day)0 -
The most remarkable thing about the nonsense he spouted was that much of it was unnecessary and counter-productive.Patrick said:Salmond lied and lied and lied again. His promises of freedom and jam were deeply mendacious. It would have been freedom and vinegar - by the bucketful. He deserves this.
Instead of the ludicrous claim that Scotland would be able to borrow at the same rate as the UK, why not say: "Of course as a new country we'll have to show the markets that we are fiscally responsible, but I'm confident that in a very short time we'll have an excellent credit rating and low borrowing costs".
Instead of the ludicrous claim that Scotland would somehow magically automatically become a full member of the EU, why not say "After a Yes vote we'll immediately start talking with the EU about formal accession, and in the meantime I'm confident that we can agree an interim agreement which will allow trade and investment to continue without disruption, which is in everyone's interest"?
Admittedly on the currency issue he had a harder problem, but making the ludicrous claim that a currency union could be conjured out of thin air without the consent of the other side was just bizarre.
Perhaps with sane answers to questions like this it might have gone the other way. We'll never know.0 -
There only has to be a majority in the Scottish Parliament of SNP + Greens -- not really that much of a longshot.rottenborough said:
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.0 -
amazon.co.uk/Scandal-Season-DVD-Kerry-Washington/dp/B00GQY0XB0Pulpstar said:
If you start at S1 bear with it because it's very weak for the first few episodes.
( @Plato is a US mini-series authority, I believe)0 -
I can't imagine the powers that be ever being stupid enough to exclude Scots living in rUK from the electorate again.rottenborough said:
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.0 -
Salmond failed to have a good answer to the currency question - all the snake oil in Stonehaven couldn't grease that past the Scottish voters.SeanT said:OK this is my last smug self regarding comment, at least for the next 20 minutes, but when the eurozone first went into crisis, I noted on here that it killed off Salmond's chances of winning any indyref, because he would have no answer to the currency question.
And so it proved, about four years later. The currency was the killer.
If the euro had been functioning smoothly, I reckon he would have won this referendum.
0 -
Sometimes I can understand what drove Pork to his demented rantings.audreyanne said:
Real guile is knowing how to gain, and retain, power. Salmond was stuck so far up his own posterior that he failed to judge the mood. Close, but no cigar. And in politics the winner takes all.0 -
-
Sadiq Khan spot on
Most important vote in generation saw 1000s of 16 & 17 year olds vote in indyref. How can we deny them vote in General Election?0 -
Afternoon all,
Stayed up till 5.15 last night, when the Beeb suggested a NO vote was a cert.
So looks like:
Vote NO, get Ed!
but also, vote NO, get rid of Alex!
Surprised by the margin of victory (10%), looks like the final week of polls were out by some distance.0 -
And the independents (of whom Margo McDonald is much missed).Danny565 said:
There only has to be a majority in the Scottish Parliament of SNP + Greens -- not really that much of a longshot.rottenborough said:
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
And any new "real socialist" party arising from the Glasgow area after the indyref.
That much more doable.
0 -
We always accused the Liberal Democrats of being a different party in different places. What is the SNP really ? How can Tartan Tories be in the same party as some of their very laudable social democratic policies. One of the few political parties in Britain which could publicly support more immigration !SouthamObserver said:Whoever takes over has a huge task to keep the SNP together now that independence is off the table for a while. The party basically has to start again, so a new leader makes sense; but how many have the experience and guile to do that?
The inevitable tension will cause a fracture sooner or later. The SNP might implode now or after the devo max negotiations, which, as usual, will become for the Scots the Great Betrayal !0 -
Good point. Although the practicalities are a major hurdle.Socrates said:
I can't imagine the powers that be ever being stupid enough to exclude Scots living in rUK from the electorate again.rottenborough said:
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
0 -
Even on the currency, if he had just said "The preferred option is a currency union, but if Westminster proves to be vindictive about this, then a Scottish pound would be a perfectly adequate alternative." It would have been very hard for the No campaign to have a clear message against that.Richard_Nabavi said:
The most remarkable thing about the nonsense he spouted was that much of it was unnecessary and counter-prductive.Patrick said:Salmond lied and lied and lied again. His promises of freedom and jam were deeply mendacious. It would have been freedom and vinegar - by the bucketful. He deserves this.
Instead of the ludicrous claim that Scotland would be able to borrow at the same rate as the UK, why not say: "Of course as a new country we'll have to show the markets that we are fiscally responsible, but I'm confident that in a very short time we'll have an excellent credit rating and low borrowing costs".
Instead of the ludicrous claim that Scotland would somehow magically automatically become a full member of the EU, why not say "After a Yes vote we'll immediately start talking with the EU about formal accession, and in the meantime I'm confident that we can agree an interim agreement which will allow trade and investment to continue without disruption, which is in everyone's interest"?
Admittedly on the currency issue he had a harder problem, but making the ludicrous claim that a currency union could be conjured out of thin air without the consent of the other side was just bizarre.
Perhaps with sane answers to questions like this it might have gone the other way. We'll never know.0 -
The second Darling vs Salmond debate was just gruelling to watch, with the combination of Salmond's bare-faced deceptions and Darling's complete inability to handle them.SeanT said:
Yeah, it's important to remember he is a total liar. Worse than that, a dangerous liar. A classic example of that deeply pernicious thing: the charismatic but amoral politicianPatrick said:Salmond lied and lied and lied again. His promises of freedom and jam were deeply mendacious. It would have been freedom and vinegar - by the bucketful. He deserves this.
Watching him stand there and pretend that the fact that Scotland could use the pound without a currency union was some new revelation he'd just forced Darling to admit for the first time, and get a huge round of applause for it, and knowing that the media was never going to call him out on it, was absolutely sickening.
It was the same low, obvious tricks over and over, throughout the campaign. Pretending that not liking No's "negativity" was a good reason to vote Yes, as if the referendum was some kind of reality TV show competition where viewers phoned in to vote on which campaign had more flair and panache. Somehow managing to turn their inability to answer the most basic questions into a positive point by claiming that No was harping on the same points. The ridiculous Hope vs Fear dichotomy (when you stand on the edge of a cliff, do you choose Fear of splattering on the rocks below, or Hope that you'll somehow learn to fly on the way down?)
And I guess mentioning how stupid you have to be to fall for all that would have been patronising or something, so of course nobody ever did. No let Yes set the agenda again and again. I'm sure it was a joint success for Yes, but Salmond really was the face of those awful tactics, and he absolutely exemplified them. So no matter what his achievements or history, it's very hard for me to be anything other than glad to see the back of him.0 -
*Sir* Alex Salmond perhaps?
It wouldn't be too far fetched. Mending fences etc.0 -
Anyone know what Rod Crosby's 324 millionth simulation predicted as the Referendum result.
Last night at one time he wrote: YES 50.6 NO 49.4.0 -
SNP to lurch to the left after this - try and outflank Labour from the unlimited welfare "social justice" angle ?Carnyx said:
And the independents (of whom Margo McDonald is much missed).Danny565 said:
There only has to be a majority in the Scottish Parliament of SNP + Greens -- not really that much of a longshot.rottenborough said:
Sorry, there'll be no referendum in 10 years. It has gone for a generation as Cameron has said, indeed a lifetime. In order for there to be sufficient pressure to change this result within our lifetimes there would have to be the clear, settled will of the Scots to vote again and vote 'Yes'. This would mean, to my mind, polls consistently showing 70 or 80% in favour of separation and a clear mandate from across all of the political parties. It aint gonna happen.Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
And any new "real socialist" party arising from the Glasgow area after the indyref.
That much more doable.0 -
That is also the problem.surbiton said:
Sometimes the "velvet" approach does not work ! The SNP started winning Parliamentary seats since 1967. You have to ask who took them from a rag bag team , first to government and then to the cusp of independence. Only one man !Danny565 said:Quite shocking.
I do think Nicola Sturgeon leading would give them a better chance in the next independence referendum (inevitably within the next 10 years surely?). Salmond might be better at firing up the diehard nationalists, but I feel Sturgeon would've appealed more to the more moderate people who liked the idea of a more "left-wing" state but were turned off by Salmond's tub-thumping "us vs them" approach.
The government, by all accounts, is also reasonably popular !
I heard his Perth speech on Wednesday night. I am a socialist. I could hardly disagree with anything he said. No wonder they carried Glasgow. It is the middle class Labour vote who stuck to NO.
Salmond promised the moon and stars, he promised to turn scotland into a gay religious socialist state with low taxes and deregulation for businesses, all funded by oil and green power.
So he lied heavily to either the poor or the rich, to the gays or the priests, to the oilmen or the greens, or simply to everyone including you.
He only cared to have scotland under his boot, he didn't care how.0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
