How the public view the final three – politicalbetting.com
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Voting from 1 to 3pm; results an hour later at 4pm.BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.2 -
Boris Johnson! If you offered him another ten years in Downing Street, he'd bite your hand off.NerysHughes said:
The problem is who would want to be a politician now in this social media/24 hour news world. Thats why the quality of politicians will continue to get worse.Scott_xP said:
...0 -
Less than 7 weeks until I start my training contract.
How long does one leave it before becoming solicitor general and running for party leadership? Asking for a friend.8 -
Get a year in at Oxford firstGallowgate said:Less than 7 weeks until I start my training contract.
How long does one leave it before becoming solicitor general and running for party leadership? Asking for a friend.3 -
When I moved to Reading back in 83, we bought a house constructed in just this way (couldn't afford anything more substantial, having moved there from Nottinghamshire). Somebody quite reliable told us the design life of these houses was 25 years, though the last time I was in Reading a couple of years ago, they still seemed to be standing and occupied. But maybe the wood inside the brick skin had all rotted away. ...JosiasJessop said:
Timber buildings do not generally last as long. EiT would be able to give chapter and verse, but in Japan, where they build lots of home traditionally in timber, they are only designed to last two or three decades. Well-made brick or stone houses can last a century or more.Luckyguy1983 said:
Regarding extraction, I think one way will be to have a whole new focus on building in timber, in preference to concrete, steel, brick, stone etc. That captures the carbon and stores it indefinitely.MaxPB said:A lovely cool breeze this morning. Long may it continue.
One of the key learnings from yesterday is that net zero by 2050 won't be enough. We need to create mechanisms for net negative or these 40 degree days go from being a once in a lifetime event to a regular occurrence and we exacerbate the situation by becoming more like the US where every home has air conditioning.
A smart government would set a big industrial challenge of achieving a profitable mechanism to extract and store greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. It is going to become urgent within 10 years.
(Snip)
Also, what qualifies as a 'timbe' house is interesting. Some timber-framed buildings are going up on the new estate next to us. They're timber, but a brick shell is being laid around the exterior. Seems the worst of both worlds to me...1 -
Would be very amusing if Rishi Rich ends up going out as a result of 'lending' votes to one of the others.
If the Badenites all become Lizard People, then The Truss could even come top today.
Also, it occurred to me that it not inconceivable that in a couple of years' time we could have Penny in Downing Street and Pence in the White House.
They could both campaign for change!8 -
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.0 -
All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.1 -
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.1 -
Mr. Roberts, you are a sun-addled lunatic.
I hope that's the last time we ever see such ridiculous temperatures here. Even as a lifelong expert in insomnia, the two nights were terrible.2 -
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.1 -
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.1 -
Wasn't it la Truss who failed to speak up for the judiciary when the Heil made their "enemies of the people" attack? Not a good omen.Cyclefree said:
The Tory party has pretty much already given up on being the party of the rule of law and law and order.SouthamObserver said:The thing to look out for with whoever becomes the next PM is who they appoint as Attorney General. If Suella Braverman remains in the job, the Conservative party will have forever forfeited any claim it might have to believe in the rule of law and Parliamentary democracy.
Unnoticed in all the focus on the voting was Johnson's disgraceful statement in the Commons on Monday night about "seeing off Brenda Hale" as if this was some sort of achievement or something to boast about.
It isn't. Seeing off the courts is not something that any PM, any party of government which genuinely believes in the rule of law should be boasting about.
It is not even true. The government complied in full with the ruling of the Supreme Court. Lady Hale was not "seen off". She retired, having served out her term and with considerably greater distinction than the PM. The PM broke the rules of the House which state that MPs must not make personal attacks on judges. Neither the Attorney-General nor the Lord Chancellor (sat next to the PM when he made his attack), who are under a statutory duty to protect the judiciary, have said anything.
In the leadership campaign, the issue of the rule of law and the justice system have scarcely figured. Penny Mordaunt has made her usual vacuous statements about keeping us safe - though she has at least tried to address the issue, which is to her credit. None have sought to address the issues caused by their own failings over the years which have resulted in -
- a record backlog in the Crown Courts
- years of delays for victims and defendants waiting for a trial
- the shortage of specialist barristers to prosecute and defend.
There is little point creating more offences or talking about Victims' Charters or anything else if the courts are closed, if there is no-one available to prosecute or defend, if trial delays are measured in years not months. Quite what sort of society we are creating when one of its essential components, one of the key duties of the state, breaks down like this, God knows. But it is not likely to be a nice one and it will certainly be one where the weak and vulnerable suffer and those who have been harmed get no effective redress. Talk of tax cuts and Thatcherite deregulation is pathetic, downright insulting and "Marie Antoinette-ish", in the circumstances.
I dare say @ydoethur and @Foxy could say the same about teaching and health.2 -
I'm sure someone here will know more but aren't the old houses in English high streets mostly a shell of brick on top of the wood? As in, they built the house out of wood, but then after a century or two someone plonked a brick facade on the front so it didn't look old and shitty.DayTripper said:
When I moved to Reading back in 83, we bought a house constructed in just this way (couldn't afford anything more substantial, having moved there from Nottinghamshire). Somebody quite reliable told us the design life of these houses was 25 years, though the last time I was in Reading a couple of years ago, they still seemed to be standing and occupied. But maybe the wood inside the brick skin had all rotted away. ...JosiasJessop said:
Timber buildings do not generally last as long. EiT would be able to give chapter and verse, but in Japan, where they build lots of home traditionally in timber, they are only designed to last two or three decades. Well-made brick or stone houses can last a century or more.Luckyguy1983 said:
Regarding extraction, I think one way will be to have a whole new focus on building in timber, in preference to concrete, steel, brick, stone etc. That captures the carbon and stores it indefinitely.MaxPB said:A lovely cool breeze this morning. Long may it continue.
One of the key learnings from yesterday is that net zero by 2050 won't be enough. We need to create mechanisms for net negative or these 40 degree days go from being a once in a lifetime event to a regular occurrence and we exacerbate the situation by becoming more like the US where every home has air conditioning.
A smart government would set a big industrial challenge of achieving a profitable mechanism to extract and store greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. It is going to become urgent within 10 years.
(Snip)
Also, what qualifies as a 'timbe' house is interesting. Some timber-framed buildings are going up on the new estate next to us. They're timber, but a brick shell is being laid around the exterior. Seems the worst of both worlds to me...0 -
My 90 yo father-in-law was convinced that the reason the Tories didn't get rid of Johnson was 'no one else would want the job'.Mexicanpete said:
Boris Johnson! If you offered him another ten years in Downing Street, he'd bite your hand off.NerysHughes said:
The problem is who would want to be a politician now in this social media/24 hour news world. Thats why the quality of politicians will continue to get worse.Scott_xP said:...
He was totally baffled that a big field of candidates emerged, bless him.0 -
I'm sorry to say there is zero chance of that being the last time we ever see such temperatures.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Roberts, you are a sun-addled lunatic.
I hope that's the last time we ever see such ridiculous temperatures here. Even as a lifelong expert in insomnia, the two nights were terrible.1 -
I see many people saying that if the Tories elect Truss they may lose the next election.
Well to be frank, that doesn't answer the question as to whether the Tories deserve to lose the next election.
If the Tories bequeath at the next election an economic legacy of taxes at their highest rate for 74 years then they deserve to lose the next election. In fact, they'd deserve to be out of office for a generation if not more.
If the Tories stand for nothing other than increasing the welfare state (pensions) while taxing people who work, then the Tories have nothing to offer that makes them worth voting for, so they deserve to die as a party. If taxes are at their highest level for 74 years at the next election then let this be the last Tory government we ever see. And if taxes are only cut by Sunak's plan of increasing NI but cutting Income Tax so those on welfare get a tax cut paid for by workers, then again let this be the last Tory government we ever see.
If the Tories elect Truss who reverses the NI catastrophe then that would be good, and if they lose they at least lose doing the right thing.
If the Tories elect Sunak who gives more bungs to those on welfare, that they never saved for, then I hope they lose. Even if I'll gladly take my winnings, I'll equally gladly campaign to see the Tories lose the next election.0 -
The media was able to get their debates because the final vote is party members and you need the media to reach them (remember they are old and therefore watch TV rather than social media).Sandpit said:
The mistake was the candidates for a ballot of 358 MPs, agreeing to media-led “debates” instead of their own hustings.eek said:
Yep - public votes have a nasty habit of forcing people to discuss items they really would prefer not to. Sunday night provided a lot of free dirty that Labour can use in the months going forward that would never have occurred if the only people with a say was MPs.rottenborough said:The party made a mistake when the rules were changed in 1998 to allow the membership the final choice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/19/new-pm-needs-experience-not-episode-apprentice/
The media will always try to get the candidates arguing with each other, because that’s what drives ratings, clicks and likes.
And the lesser / younger / newer candidates were always going to do the debates because any publicity is better than none.1 -
This won't stabilise the situation in Sri Lanka much.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/20/sri-lanka-president-vote-ranil-wickremesinghe-wins-amid-protests0 -
BartholomewRoberts said:
All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
The Brexit sunlit uplands must be quite close now, shirley?3 -
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!1 -
I think that is a little overdone, given the actual number and scale of fires. The sky is not falling in just yet, Goosey-Lucy.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
The interesting story for me is that Chinese Flying Lanterns were observed, and are still legal. I think we also need some attention to fires and wild camping, perhaps.
2 -
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.0 -
Which is all fine for the final round, when the members have two candidates to look at, and there can be time spent on debating the serious policy issues of the day and of the coming years.eek said:
The media was able to get their debates because the final vote is party members and you need the media to reach them (remember they are old and therefore watch TV rather than social media).Sandpit said:
The mistake was the candidates for a ballot of 358 MPs, agreeing to media-led “debates” instead of their own hustings.eek said:
Yep - public votes have a nasty habit of forcing people to discuss items they really would prefer not to. Sunday night provided a lot of free dirty that Labour can use in the months going forward that would never have occurred if the only people with a say was MPs.rottenborough said:The party made a mistake when the rules were changed in 1998 to allow the membership the final choice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/19/new-pm-needs-experience-not-episode-apprentice/
The media will always try to get the candidates arguing with each other, because that’s what drives ratings, clicks and likes.
And the lesser / younger / newer candidates were always going to do the debates because any publicity is better than none.
Watching five or six of them arguing with each other about mostly trivialities and he said / she said stuff, was most unedifying - and provides Labour and LD parties plenty of material.0 -
They might get a brief bounce but if that polling is correct both Truss and Sunak will longer term do even worse than Johnson and put Labour even further ahead. Remember Brown and May's bounces evaporated by polling day. Only Major of midterm recent new PMs sustained a bounce to general election victory.Mexicanpete said:
That all changes on September 5.HYUFD said:Polling by Electoral Calculus and Find Out Now gives Labour a 9% lead against a Mordaunt led Tory party and a 12% lead against a Sunak or Truss led Tory party
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1549485684590878720?s=20&t=aMepF0x-JLQ5qm6sk9fe3w
Whoever they are, the new Prime Minister will get one hell of a media boost and the polling will follow. The discredited Johnson will be gone and with their own vision the new PM can set their own agenda.
The Party polling under "prospective" PMs is spurious. In September, and with a new Prime Minister in place you will see the new PM to be significantly more popular than Johnson. Expect decent Tory leads, in the short term at least.
Only Mordaunt offers an improvement over Johnson but even then only a small one0 -
Sorry Barty but this post made me chuckle. I remember quite vividly when you threw your toys out the pram after Rishi increased tax on workers to subsidise the retired. And now you think he has “overwhelming positives”?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
Truss is one we disagree on but if and when she wins I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt, as I would any incoming PM of any stripe. But you’re contradicting your own narrative bigging up Sunak in this way.0 -
You've obviously not been reading his posts. A Sunak win nets BR 5 grand.moonshine said:
Sorry Barty but this post made me chuckle. I remember quite vividly when you threw your toys out the pram after Rishi increased tax on workers to subsidise the retired. And now you think he has “overwhelming positives”?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.4 -
Before the debates happened there was a bit of comment about how bad it was for Labour, the Tories would crowd them out and be able to set the terms of public debate, a great opportunity of more publicity for them and their leading politicians.Sandpit said:
Which is all fine for the final round, when the members have two candidates to look at, and there can be time spent on debating the serious policy issues of the day and of the coming years.eek said:
The media was able to get their debates because the final vote is party members and you need the media to reach them (remember they are old and therefore watch TV rather than social media).Sandpit said:
The mistake was the candidates for a ballot of 358 MPs, agreeing to media-led “debates” instead of their own hustings.eek said:
Yep - public votes have a nasty habit of forcing people to discuss items they really would prefer not to. Sunday night provided a lot of free dirty that Labour can use in the months going forward that would never have occurred if the only people with a say was MPs.rottenborough said:The party made a mistake when the rules were changed in 1998 to allow the membership the final choice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/19/new-pm-needs-experience-not-episode-apprentice/
The media will always try to get the candidates arguing with each other, because that’s what drives ratings, clicks and likes.
And the lesser / younger / newer candidates were always going to do the debates because any publicity is better than none.
Watching five or six of them arguing with each other about mostly trivialities and he said / she said stuff, was most unedifying - and provides Labour and LD parties plenty of material.
That they completely fluffed that opportunity is due to their own weaknesses.1 -
Penny is, unfortunately, by far the most vacuous of the remaining candidates. Her report card is a senior military figure who stated that she simply could not make up her mind as SoS for Defence, Lord Frost stating that she went missing for "months at a time" and never got the detail in trade, similar comments from Anne Trevelyan and the disagreement about what her policy even was in Equality with both Kemi and Truss. In fact I do not think that there is anyone she has worked for in government who has a good word to say about her. Add on her uncosted tax cuts and borrowing for current spending and I see more drift into dangerous waters for the good ship UK.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
She is personable and reasonably articulate but that really isn't enough. Like other posters yesterday I am slightly scared about what a Truss Premiership might be like but I do not think she lacks the grip to get things done. She would be a material step up on Boris in that respect. Rishi is showing limited ability to learn from past mistakes but he too has a clear grip of what is needed at the top of government. A Mordaunt premiership would be a continuation of drift and headline seeking.
If the Conservatives are serious about providing a government Truss and Sunak go to the members today.2 -
"Some houses burn from time to time".BartholomewRoberts said:
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.
Yes, shame about Grenfell, but shit happens, and you can't eliminate risk. I assume that's your view?2 -
That depends upon whether "improvement" is Tory vote share going up, or whether "improvement" is getting policies you want implemented.HYUFD said:
They might get a brief bounce but if that polling is correct both Truss and Sunak will longer term do even worse than Johnson and put Labour even further ahead. Remember Brown and May's bounces evaporated by polling day. Only Major of midterm new PMs sustained a bounce to general election victory.Mexicanpete said:
That all changes on September 5.HYUFD said:Polling by Electoral Calculus and Find Out Now gives Labour a 9% lead against a Mordaunt led Tory party and a 12% lead against a Sunak or Truss led Tory party
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1549485684590878720?s=20&t=aMepF0x-JLQ5qm6sk9fe3w
Whoever they are, the new Prime Minister will get one hell of a media boost and the polling will follow. The discredited Johnson will be gone and with their own vision the new PM can set their own agenda.
The Party polling under "prospective" PMs is spurious. In September, and with a new Prime Minister in place you will see the new PM to be significantly more popular than Johnson. Expect decent Tory leads, in the short term at least.
Only Mordaunt offers an improvement over Johnson but even then only a small one
I didn't join the Conservative Party because I thought that taxes and the welfare state should go up.
If the Conservatives leave office with taxes at the highest rates for nearly three quarters of a century, and expanded welfare taking up the overwhelming chunk of those taxes, then what's the point of voting for the Tories?
We're getting to the point that the Tories are higher tax and higher welfare than Labour. If that's the case, we may as well have Labour!0 -
I understand there are five thousand positives for Sunak, though each of them is losing value quite rapidly at the moment.moonshine said:
Sorry Barty but this post made me chuckle. I remember quite vividly when you threw your toys out the pram after Rishi increased tax on workers to subsidise the retired. And now you think he has “overwhelming positives”?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
Truss is one we disagree on but if and when she wins I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt, as I would any incoming PM of any stripe. But you’re contradicting your own narrative bigging up Sunak in this way.1 -
See yesterday's comment from @Sandpit regarding BBQs, Balconies and cladding in Dubai tower blocks..Northern_Al said:
"Some houses burn from time to time".BartholomewRoberts said:
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.
Yes, shame about Grenfell, but shit happens. I assume that's your view?0 -
Truss's dad was a professor of pure mathematics. If she is lower middle class then I must be an actual pleb.RochdalePioneers said:
What on earth is "lower-middle class" anyway. Can we not move past this faux deference nonsense?SouthamObserver said:
Hilariously, the Truss camp has been claiming she had a lower middle class upbringing.Nigelb said:.
Dad was a maths professor, which might have had a bit to do with it. Children of academics tend to get pretty good training irrespective of the school they attend.OldKingCole said:
Truss of course went to a comprehensive… excellent or failing depending on who is reporting… and so won her place at Oxford on merit, not according to "previous contacts "!Wulfrun_Phil said:
False equivalence.JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
Keir Starmer gained postgraduate entry to Oxford by virtue of achieving a first class undergraduate degree in law at a redbrick university (Leeds). At every stage of his education, starting from the 11+, he got where he did purely by merit.
It's hardly the gilded path that the likes of Johnson and Sunak were propelled down.
I hadn't realised she was at primary school in Scotland.
A source close to the family said: ‘Liz had a vibrant, character-forming childhood. With three older brothers, she had to fight for everything. It was a very solid, lower middle-class upbringing, with loads of friends on free school meals. It was a warm and supportive environment to grow up in.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11020931/How-Liz-Truss-set-path-challenge-Prime-Minister.html1 -
US House of Representatives passes a bill to respect Same Sex Marriage 267 to 157 with 47 Republicans voting with the Democrats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-622325181 -
Joyous & civic:StuartDickson said:
PB Unionists: Scotland and England are the same.CarlottaVance said:Time for another Sturgeon lecture on the greater moral superiority and civic mindedness of those north of the border:
“People in England have proved significantly more likely to volunteer than those in Scotland. As of July 12, 53,997 Ukrainians had arrived to live with families in England but only 2,777 in Scotland”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeons-boasting-over-ukrainian-refugees-has-come-back-to-bite-her-cn9wrp2sl
PB Unionists: Scotland and England are different.
Make your minds up.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11024079/amp/Nicola-Sturgeons-betrayal-Ukraine-refugees-Backlash-plan-families-CRUISE-SHIP.html
Too busy to visit a food bank, but could visit St Andrews….and if you think the Johnson replacement field is bereft of talent……
0 -
Barbecues and camp fires are fine provided folk are responsible.MattW said:
I think that is a little overdone, given the actual number and scale of fires. The sky is not falling in just yet, Goosey-Lucy.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
The interesting story for me is that Chinese Flying Lanterns were observed, and are still legal. I think we also need some attention to fires and wild camping, perhaps.
In those temperatures flying lanterns are the equivalent of lobbing bricks off motorway bridges.1 -
Shit happens is my view, yes.Northern_Al said:
"Some houses burn from time to time".BartholomewRoberts said:
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.
Yes, shame about Grenfell, but shit happens, and you can't eliminate risk. I assume that's your view?
Grenfell was more than shit though, it was a failure that didn't just see the destruction of property but many, many deaths to and it was not due to good weather but due to corrupt cladding that had been known to be dangerous but the evidence for that had been deliberately suppressed. People should be in jail over that, it is a completely different thing.0 -
The design life of timber frame houses these days is typically 60 years. I used to be involved in TF research.edmundintokyo said:
I'm sure someone here will know more but aren't the old houses in English high streets mostly a shell of brick on top of the wood? As in, they built the house out of wood, but then after a century or two someone plonked a brick facade on the front so it didn't look old and shitty.DayTripper said:
When I moved to Reading back in 83, we bought a house constructed in just this way (couldn't afford anything more substantial, having moved there from Nottinghamshire). Somebody quite reliable told us the design life of these houses was 25 years, though the last time I was in Reading a couple of years ago, they still seemed to be standing and occupied. But maybe the wood inside the brick skin had all rotted away. ...JosiasJessop said:
Timber buildings do not generally last as long. EiT would be able to give chapter and verse, but in Japan, where they build lots of home traditionally in timber, they are only designed to last two or three decades. Well-made brick or stone houses can last a century or more.Luckyguy1983 said:
Regarding extraction, I think one way will be to have a whole new focus on building in timber, in preference to concrete, steel, brick, stone etc. That captures the carbon and stores it indefinitely.MaxPB said:A lovely cool breeze this morning. Long may it continue.
One of the key learnings from yesterday is that net zero by 2050 won't be enough. We need to create mechanisms for net negative or these 40 degree days go from being a once in a lifetime event to a regular occurrence and we exacerbate the situation by becoming more like the US where every home has air conditioning.
A smart government would set a big industrial challenge of achieving a profitable mechanism to extract and store greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. It is going to become urgent within 10 years.
(Snip)
Also, what qualifies as a 'timbe' house is interesting. Some timber-framed buildings are going up on the new estate next to us. They're timber, but a brick shell is being laid around the exterior. Seems the worst of both worlds to me...
The thing that wood is usually damaged by is persistant wetness (*), or sometimes insects etc. One way to do huge damage is to render wood with cement render, which is impermeable; lime render (permeable) is usually essential.
In older (ie Victorian and before) houses usually the timber would be able to breath and any moisture get out - houses were designed to be permeable; that's how they worked.
Even in recent times there have been widespread practices of eg thru ventilation below suspended timber floors via airbricks on the upwind and downwind sides. One of the worst thing to do is to seal up airbricks without allowing for moisture to escape. That's why when I renovate a 20C pre-war house while I effectively make the walls non-permeable with internal insulation, I also install modest forced ventilation to make it tenant damp-lifestyle proof (eg washing on radiators).
Now the approach is more to protect the timber structure, and houses are more sealed. They use things like one way permeable membranes.
If you want to doubt the potential longevity of timber frame, consider all those Medieval churches and tithe barns.
(*) This also applies to fences, so for example *never* put wooden posts directly into concrete without careful consideration.2 -
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.3 -
Portable BBQs. Lit by morons on tinder-dry fields.MattW said:
I think that is a little overdone, given the actual number and scale of fires. The sky is not falling in just yet, Goosey-Lucy.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
The interesting story for me is that Chinese Flying Lanterns were observed, and are still legal. I think we also need some attention to fires and wild camping, perhaps.2 -
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW0 -
Grant Shapps has been quite good on the need to update railway engineering standards for the new climate. We do need ministers to be looking at things like this, and the Chinese Lanterns you mention — discrete actions that can be taken independently of each other and immediately — as well as long term, large scale measures to address the causes of climate change like Net Zero. Everyone's favourite Mayor of London has the list of cool spaces, for instance, whose very existence encourages additional spaces to be found.MattW said:
I think that is a little overdone, given the actual number and scale of fires. The sky is not falling in just yet, Goosey-Lucy.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
The interesting story for me is that Chinese Flying Lanterns were observed, and are still legal. I think we also need some attention to fires and wild camping, perhaps.
https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/climate-change/climate-adaptation/cool-spaces0 -
Yes.DayTripper said:
Wasn't it la Truss who failed to speak up for the judiciary when the Heil made their "enemies of the people" attack? Not a good omen.Cyclefree said:
The Tory party has pretty much already given up on being the party of the rule of law and law and order.SouthamObserver said:The thing to look out for with whoever becomes the next PM is who they appoint as Attorney General. If Suella Braverman remains in the job, the Conservative party will have forever forfeited any claim it might have to believe in the rule of law and Parliamentary democracy.
Unnoticed in all the focus on the voting was Johnson's disgraceful statement in the Commons on Monday night about "seeing off Brenda Hale" as if this was some sort of achievement or something to boast about.
It isn't. Seeing off the courts is not something that any PM, any party of government which genuinely believes in the rule of law should be boasting about.
It is not even true. The government complied in full with the ruling of the Supreme Court. Lady Hale was not "seen off". She retired, having served out her term and with considerably greater distinction than the PM. The PM broke the rules of the House which state that MPs must not make personal attacks on judges. Neither the Attorney-General nor the Lord Chancellor (sat next to the PM when he made his attack), who are under a statutory duty to protect the judiciary, have said anything.
In the leadership campaign, the issue of the rule of law and the justice system have scarcely figured. Penny Mordaunt has made her usual vacuous statements about keeping us safe - though she has at least tried to address the issue, which is to her credit. None have sought to address the issues caused by their own failings over the years which have resulted in -
- a record backlog in the Crown Courts
- years of delays for victims and defendants waiting for a trial
- the shortage of specialist barristers to prosecute and defend.
There is little point creating more offences or talking about Victims' Charters or anything else if the courts are closed, if there is no-one available to prosecute or defend, if trial delays are measured in years not months. Quite what sort of society we are creating when one of its essential components, one of the key duties of the state, breaks down like this, God knows. But it is not likely to be a nice one and it will certainly be one where the weak and vulnerable suffer and those who have been harmed get no effective redress. Talk of tax cuts and Thatcherite deregulation is pathetic, downright insulting and "Marie Antoinette-ish", in the circumstances.
I dare say @ydoethur and @Foxy could say the same about teaching and health.0 -
Can't they put them on a ferry?CarlottaVance said:
Joyous & civic:StuartDickson said:
PB Unionists: Scotland and England are the same.CarlottaVance said:Time for another Sturgeon lecture on the greater moral superiority and civic mindedness of those north of the border:
“People in England have proved significantly more likely to volunteer than those in Scotland. As of July 12, 53,997 Ukrainians had arrived to live with families in England but only 2,777 in Scotland”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeons-boasting-over-ukrainian-refugees-has-come-back-to-bite-her-cn9wrp2sl
PB Unionists: Scotland and England are different.
Make your minds up.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11024079/amp/Nicola-Sturgeons-betrayal-Ukraine-refugees-Backlash-plan-families-CRUISE-SHIP.html
Too busy to visit a food bank, but could visit St Andrews….and if you think the Johnson replacement field is bereft of talent……
Oh wait ... isn't that being built in Poland?0 -
Not far enough south.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
Namibia seems more his scene.0 -
9.4% inflation.
The Tories want to talk about...what a woman is.
I can see why Keir Starmer is 10 points ahead whoever he faces.1 -
boak0 -
Yes, no plan.Scott_xP said:
boak0 -
If the "ideas" are taxes up to 74 year high, in order to fund welfare at a high too, then the idea are terrible though.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
There already is an economic bomb. Truss at least is planning to defuse it by lowering the tax burden from its modern day high, that is the right thing to do, and if it loses, it loses and I can live with that.
Sunak has already announced plans to have even more pre-election giveaways to the grey vote further burdening the tax burden to fund welfare even more. I'm not worried that may lose if it goes to an election, I'd want it to lose.
If the Tories stand for high tax, high welfare, then I am anti-Tory. I believe in low tax, low welfare, not highest taxes, highest welfare.0 -
And because Cambridge doesn't waste time with degrees like PPE?tlg86 said:
My tutor reckoned it’s the one to two tutorial system that means Oxford turns out the best. There’s nowhere to hide and your thoughts get thoroughly interrogated.JosiasJessop said:
That's the question. And it's made worse by the fact that many journalists also attended there. I doubt it's talent, or the education they get there; it's much more likely to be contacts made. A little Oxonian bubble.Casino_Royale said:
What is it about Oxford?JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
I think when this leadership contest started, there were only two candidates who had attended Oxford. It looks likely that both those will get through.
Many see 'Eton' as being pernicious to our politics; that too many top people went to the school. If that's bad, then the situation
with Oxford is at best questionable.
I guess the question is why Oxford and not Cambridge? It’s probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy with budding politicians going to Oxford leaving arts/science types to go to the fens.1 -
There's a bit more to it than that, surely. You might conclude that winning the next election is unlikely under any leader, and therefore you might as well get a leader who can do the things you want for the next 2-2.5 years.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.1 -
Depends on the quality of the building and of the subsequent maintanence. There are plenty of timber framed buildings which are centuries old, for example, most of Lavenham in Suffolk. Many neighbourhoods in Tallinn are 19th century wooden houses, and again if well looked after they are healthy, comfortable and warm places to live.JosiasJessop said:
Timber buildings do not generally last as long. EiT would be able to give chapter and verse, but in Japan, where they build lots of home traditionally in timber, they are only designed to last two or three decades. Well-made brick or stone houses can last a century or more.Luckyguy1983 said:
Regarding extraction, I think one way will be to have a whole new focus on building in timber, in preference to concrete, steel, brick, stone etc. That captures the carbon and stores it indefinitely.MaxPB said:A lovely cool breeze this morning. Long may it continue.
One of the key learnings from yesterday is that net zero by 2050 won't be enough. We need to create mechanisms for net negative or these 40 degree days go from being a once in a lifetime event to a regular occurrence and we exacerbate the situation by becoming more like the US where every home has air conditioning.
A smart government would set a big industrial challenge of achieving a profitable mechanism to extract and store greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. It is going to become urgent within 10 years.
(Snip)
Also, what qualifies as a 'timbe' house is interesting. Some timber-framed buildings are going up on the new estate next to us. They're timber, but a brick shell is being laid around the exterior. Seems the worst of both worlds to me...
Modern processed structural timber is as strong as steel and about as fireproof. In Finland even quite large buildings use this material.
Unfortunately I have seen in Britain a tendency to build in untreated plywood and leave this to the elements before a light stucco finish. These buildings are not well built and certainly will decay within a very short period, not to mention providing homes for rodents and insects as the cladding, insulation and the timber itself decay. The local building regulations officers find it difficult to serve proper enforcement notices during construction and are generally so overstretched that they cannot monitor cowboy builders anyway. So Caveat Emptor.2 -
I reckon we'll see 40+ in the east/southeast, but I don't think we'll see 39.4 broken in Sheffield again in either of our lifetimes. Quite particular for this heatwave I think.Benpointer said:
I'm sorry to say there is zero chance of that being the last time we ever see such temperatures.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Roberts, you are a sun-addled lunatic.
I hope that's the last time we ever see such ridiculous temperatures here. Even as a lifelong expert in insomnia, the two nights were terrible.0 -
Surely that should be truly Conservative plan?
That jars a little.2 -
That looks increasingly desperate to me.Foxy said:
She ain't wrong.Scott_xP said:Significant toughening up of language from a Mordaunt campaign source this morning: "Liz Truss will not be able to win a general election and would put MPs' seats at risk."
Ooft.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/liz-truss-penny-mordaunt-dash-for-votes-tory-leadership_uk_62d79bc4e4b03dbb99122b14
I can only conclude she knows she hasn't got the votes.1 -
In Yorkshire that's upper middle class, shirley?Carnyx said:
It's a bit Yorkshire reminiscence, isn't it? "It was a good breakfast when I could push my way between my brothers' legs to get two spoonfuls of porridge before they emptied the shared bowl."RochdalePioneers said:
What on earth is "lower-middle class" anyway. Can we not move past this faux deference nonsense?SouthamObserver said:
Hilariously, the Truss camp has been claiming she had a lower middle class upbringing.Nigelb said:.
Dad was a maths professor, which might have had a bit to do with it. Children of academics tend to get pretty good training irrespective of the school they attend.OldKingCole said:
Truss of course went to a comprehensive… excellent or failing depending on who is reporting… and so won her place at Oxford on merit, not according to "previous contacts "!Wulfrun_Phil said:
False equivalence.JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
Keir Starmer gained postgraduate entry to Oxford by virtue of achieving a first class undergraduate degree in law at a redbrick university (Leeds). At every stage of his education, starting from the 11+, he got where he did purely by merit.
It's hardly the gilded path that the likes of Johnson and Sunak were propelled down.
I hadn't realised she was at primary school in Scotland.
A source close to the family said: ‘Liz had a vibrant, character-forming childhood. With three older brothers, she had to fight for everything. It was a very solid, lower middle-class upbringing, with loads of friends on free school meals. It was a warm and supportive environment to grow up in.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11020931/How-Liz-Truss-set-path-challenge-Prime-Minister.html1 -
Yep, they had to start arresting people for having barbecues on balconies of cladded apartment blocks, even *after* a number of major fires in the country. Bottled gas suppliers were also banned from delivering to apartments.eek said:
See yesterday's comment from @Sandpit regarding BBQs, Balconies and cladding in Dubai tower blocks..Northern_Al said:
"Some houses burn from time to time".BartholomewRoberts said:
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.
Yes, shame about Grenfell, but shit happens. I assume that's your view?
Thankfully, building codes had multiple staircases, most buildings have central fire alarm systems and permanent security presence, and the order is always to evacuate - so there were no deaths in most cases. Building codes were updated to significantly increase fire resistance of the cladding, but of course they only apply to new builds.
In short, never underestimate just how moronic, the morons in society can be.2 -
Does BR live in the North West? No wonder he is so desperate for climate change!Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
On a more serious note, while the record temperatures in the UK are not really such a big deal, the impact of a warmer planet on parts of Africa and the Indian subcontinent will be absolutely devastating, affecting people who are already poor and who have contributed very little to global CO2 emissions. Even if the prospect of crop failures, desertification, famine, war and mass starvation doesn't bother people, I would have thought that the likelihood of mass migrations northward might lead people to see that this isn't just a question of a few hot days but one of a rapidly destabilising global order that will put human civilisation in genuine jeopardy over the next century.0 -
Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/15496709854812610570
-
HSPSIanB2 said:
And because Cambridge doesn't waste time with degrees like PPE?tlg86 said:
My tutor reckoned it’s the one to two tutorial system that means Oxford turns out the best. There’s nowhere to hide and your thoughts get thoroughly interrogated.JosiasJessop said:
That's the question. And it's made worse by the fact that many journalists also attended there. I doubt it's talent, or the education they get there; it's much more likely to be contacts made. A little Oxonian bubble.Casino_Royale said:
What is it about Oxford?JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
I think when this leadership contest started, there were only two candidates who had attended Oxford. It looks likely that both those will get through.
Many see 'Eton' as being pernicious to our politics; that too many top people went to the school. If that's bad, then the situation
with Oxford is at best questionable.
I guess the question is why Oxford and not Cambridge? It’s probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy with budding politicians going to Oxford leaving arts/science types to go to the fens.0 -
'Low tax, low welfare' is good! But at the moment tax cuts will fuel inflation so let's get CPI under control and we can have the tax cuts in a few years time. And yes make the tax cuts on earned income, offset if necessary by more taxes on unearned wealth.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the "ideas" are taxes up to 74 year high, in order to fund welfare at a high too, then the idea are terrible though.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
There already is an economic bomb. Truss at least is planning to defuse it by lowering the tax burden from its modern day high, that is the right thing to do, and if it loses, it loses and I can live with that.
Sunak has already announced plans to have even more pre-election giveaways to the grey vote further burdening the tax burden to fund welfare even more. I'm not worried that may lose if it goes to an election, I'd want it to lose.
If the Tories stand for high tax, high welfare, then I am anti-Tory. I believe in low tax, low welfare, not highest taxes, highest welfare.0 -
It didn't even get particularly hot in greater Manchester, wasn't above 38 at any point. Amateur hour compared to London and the A1 corridor.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW0 -
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.2 -
Surely the message is clear from whatever perspective you view the wheel of fortune. Labour has made itself electable and can probably only govern with the help of the LDs.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
This is by far the best hope for a sane government at this moment.
The Tories have bound themselves to a fate of finding the least electable leader and one by one have eliminated some quite decent people, leaving an empty vessel and two people so tainted by their association with a corrupt government they are unappointable.
There is more wisdom to be gained about the state of play from reading Chaucer and Boethius (to say nothing of Augustine's City of God) than from following the news.
0 -
I agree. I also think that for most of the country to invest massively in the kind of infrastructure needed to cope with such events would be as crazy as authorities in the south of England investing in the latest snow ploughs just in case they get the odd inch of snow.Pulpstar said:
I reckon we'll see 40+ in the east/southeast, but I don't think we'll see 39.4 broken in Sheffield again in either of our lifetimes. Quite particular for this heatwave I think.Benpointer said:
I'm sorry to say there is zero chance of that being the last time we ever see such temperatures.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Roberts, you are a sun-addled lunatic.
I hope that's the last time we ever see such ridiculous temperatures here. Even as a lifelong expert in insomnia, the two nights were terrible.0 -
I think ultimately the MPs will put forward both Rishi and Truss because they're the only ones qualified to do the job.Driver said:
There's a bit more to it than that, surely. You might conclude that winning the next election is unlikely under any leader, and therefore you might as well get a leader who can do the things you want for the next 2-2.5 years.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
Penny might be more popular now but as she was found out (as they've already found out) she might put the party into an even worse position through ineptitude and incompetence.
I think MPs rationale will be - pick experience for now to steer through the choppiest waters. If either is a big problem roll the dice again in June 2024 and get a new leader for October prior to a late Autumn election.0 -
I have no problem with arguing for lower taxes to drive growth. In the mess we are in now that means finding something to cut. Tories are usually ruthless at doing that - I wouldn't like the proposals but they would be economically sane.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the "ideas" are taxes up to 74 year high, in order to fund welfare at a high too, then the idea are terrible though.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
There already is an economic bomb. Truss at least is planning to defuse it by lowering the tax burden from its modern day high, that is the right thing to do, and if it loses, it loses and I can live with that.
Sunak has already announced plans to have even more pre-election giveaways to the grey vote further burdening the tax burden to fund welfare even more. I'm not worried that may lose if it goes to an election, I'd want it to lose.
If the Tories stand for high tax, high welfare, then I am anti-Tory. I believe in low tax, low welfare, not highest taxes, highest welfare.
Instead she is planning to maintain spending and cut taxes as well. In 2008 CamerOsborne proposed to pull this off by inflating the GFC bubble even further by deregulating more to bring in more tax revenues. They would then "share the proceeds of growth" by matching Labour spending "pound for pound" with tax cuts on top.
That was impossible as the GFC then happened and they and you lot all conveniently forgot about the "faster! faster!" cries from the Tory front bench. But even that plan made more sense than the Trusster. Who wants to borrow money to cut taxes. Which is *madness*.0 -
Hasn't Truss been voting for all that just recently?BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Leaving aside that her so-called beliefs are as mercurial as the incumbent's1 -
spoonfuls? bowl? Luxury, I sayCarnyx said:
It's a bit Yorkshire reminiscence, isn't it? "It was a good breakfast when I could push my way between my brothers' legs to get two spoonfuls of porridge before they emptied the shared bowl."RochdalePioneers said:
What on earth is "lower-middle class" anyway. Can we not move past this faux deference nonsense?SouthamObserver said:
Hilariously, the Truss camp has been claiming she had a lower middle class upbringing.Nigelb said:.
Dad was a maths professor, which might have had a bit to do with it. Children of academics tend to get pretty good training irrespective of the school they attend.OldKingCole said:
Truss of course went to a comprehensive… excellent or failing depending on who is reporting… and so won her place at Oxford on merit, not according to "previous contacts "!Wulfrun_Phil said:
False equivalence.JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
Keir Starmer gained postgraduate entry to Oxford by virtue of achieving a first class undergraduate degree in law at a redbrick university (Leeds). At every stage of his education, starting from the 11+, he got where he did purely by merit.
It's hardly the gilded path that the likes of Johnson and Sunak were propelled down.
I hadn't realised she was at primary school in Scotland.
A source close to the family said: ‘Liz had a vibrant, character-forming childhood. With three older brothers, she had to fight for everything. It was a very solid, lower middle-class upbringing, with loads of friends on free school meals. It was a warm and supportive environment to grow up in.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11020931/How-Liz-Truss-set-path-challenge-Prime-Minister.html
2 -
Although Truss seems favourite to be next PM one never knows what dirt might come out once she gets into the final 2.
So we can but hope that some miracle happens and the country avoids another 2 years of divisive politics .
0 -
Wow, she's very bitter she's going out today isn't she?Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
Not exactly lining herself up for a Cabinet post as a consolation prize it seems.2 -
That las tis normally known as a "shed"Cicero said:
Depends on the quality of the building and of the subsequent maintanence. There are plenty of timber framed buildings which are centuries old, for example, most of Lavenham in Suffolk. Many neighbourhoods in Tallinn are 19th century wooden houses, and again if well looked after they are healthy, comfortable and warm places to live.JosiasJessop said:
Timber buildings do not generally last as long. EiT would be able to give chapter and verse, but in Japan, where they build lots of home traditionally in timber, they are only designed to last two or three decades. Well-made brick or stone houses can last a century or more.Luckyguy1983 said:
Regarding extraction, I think one way will be to have a whole new focus on building in timber, in preference to concrete, steel, brick, stone etc. That captures the carbon and stores it indefinitely.MaxPB said:A lovely cool breeze this morning. Long may it continue.
One of the key learnings from yesterday is that net zero by 2050 won't be enough. We need to create mechanisms for net negative or these 40 degree days go from being a once in a lifetime event to a regular occurrence and we exacerbate the situation by becoming more like the US where every home has air conditioning.
A smart government would set a big industrial challenge of achieving a profitable mechanism to extract and store greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. It is going to become urgent within 10 years.
(Snip)
Also, what qualifies as a 'timbe' house is interesting. Some timber-framed buildings are going up on the new estate next to us. They're timber, but a brick shell is being laid around the exterior. Seems the worst of both worlds to me...
Modern processed structural timber is as strong as steel and about as fireproof. In Finland even quite large buildings use this material.
Unfortunately I have seen in Britain a tendency to build in untreated plywood and leave this to the elements before a light stucco finish. These buildings are not well built and certainly will decay within a very short period, not to mention providing homes for rodents and insects as the cladding, insulation and the timber itself decay. The local building regulations officers find it difficult to serve proper enforcement notices during construction and are generally so overstretched that they cannot monitor cowboy builders anyway. So Caveat Emptor.
. Competent people build even their sheds better than that. But yes - Building Control inspection is a big issue, particularly doing only sample inspection not 100%.
Twenty years ago there was a research project into medium rise (4-8 storeys) timber frame, which was important:
https://www.trada.co.uk/books-online/medium-rise-timber-frame-a-best-practice-benchmarking-guide/
There was one serious fire known to me in a Worcester Park Housing Association TF development, which was down to insufficient barriers to prevent spread inside the cavity.
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/defective-cavity-barriers-contributed-nothing-to-slow-fire-in-worcester-park-blaze-report-reveals-67823
0 -
Tired of London, tired of life.Nigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.0 -
It's far from a conicidence that the criticism comes from Frost and Trevelyan. The right of the party doesn't like her, but as HYUFD mentions, she offers slighlty improved electoral prospects over Sunak and Truss, and not necessarily as dangerously dogmatic economic leadership in an economic crisis as Sunak, either ; and certainly much less so than Truss.DavidL said:
Penny is, unfortunately, by far the most vacuous of the remaining candidates. Her report card is a senior military figure who stated that she simply could not make up her mind as SoS for Defence, Lord Frost stating that she went missing for "months at a time" and never got the detail in trade, similar comments from Anne Trevelyan and the disagreement about what her policy even was in Equality with both Kemi and Truss. In fact I do not think that there is anyone she has worked for in government who has a good word to say about her. Add on her uncosted tax cuts and borrowing for current spending and I see more drift into dangerous waters for the good ship UK.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
She is personable and reasonably articulate but that really isn't enough. Like other posters yesterday I am slightly scared about what a Truss Premiership might be like but I do not think she lacks the grip to get things done. She would be a material step up on Boris in that respect. Rishi is showing limited ability to learn from past mistakes but he too has a clear grip of what is needed at the top of government. A Mordaunt premiership would be a continuation of drift and headline seeking.
If the Conservatives are serious about providing a government Truss and Sunak go to the members today.
I think Sunak will be in soon, and then Penny Mordaunt may be back for another go in the future, the polls still predicting her as a more popular candidate for the Tories if, or when, Sunak loses.0 -
🚨BREAKING - NEW POLLING🚨
None of the #ConservativeLeadershipContest candidates have won over the public yet, with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...
> ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
> ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
> ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1549675139373170688/photo/10 -
MOE stuff. Who is Mordaunt's chancellor btw, Simon Clarke sounded competent on the radio for Truss this morning.Scott_xP said:🚨BREAKING - NEW POLLING🚨
None of the #ConservativeLeadershipContest candidates have won over the public yet, with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...
> ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
> ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
> ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1549675139373170688/photo/10 -
That looks new. OK, standards have slipped, even there!IshmaelZ said:
HSPSIanB2 said:
And because Cambridge doesn't waste time with degrees like PPE?tlg86 said:
My tutor reckoned it’s the one to two tutorial system that means Oxford turns out the best. There’s nowhere to hide and your thoughts get thoroughly interrogated.JosiasJessop said:
That's the question. And it's made worse by the fact that many journalists also attended there. I doubt it's talent, or the education they get there; it's much more likely to be contacts made. A little Oxonian bubble.Casino_Royale said:
What is it about Oxford?JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
I think when this leadership contest started, there were only two candidates who had attended Oxford. It looks likely that both those will get through.
Many see 'Eton' as being pernicious to our politics; that too many top people went to the school. If that's bad, then the situation
with Oxford is at best questionable.
I guess the question is why Oxford and not Cambridge? It’s probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy with budding politicians going to Oxford leaving arts/science types to go to the fens.0 -
Borrowing money to cut taxes isn't madness when taxes are far too high.RochdalePioneers said:
I have no problem with arguing for lower taxes to drive growth. In the mess we are in now that means finding something to cut. Tories are usually ruthless at doing that - I wouldn't like the proposals but they would be economically sane.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the "ideas" are taxes up to 74 year high, in order to fund welfare at a high too, then the idea are terrible though.RochdalePioneers said:
The real question for the Tories is which of the candidates is electable. You may like Truss because you think she will drive policy in the direction you want. But unless she can actually win votes, that won't last very long.BartholomewRoberts said:
No shit you don't want her, you're a leftie.Mexicanpete said:
"Truss is the best candidate". Wow let's hope when the temperature drops the utter insanity of the Conservative Leadership electorate does too.BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Mordaunt, I could vote for under duress, Sunak, less likely, Truss, I'd rather take the bullet than put her in No 10!
I want her, for pretty much the reasons you don't. That's not insanity.
No government can bind the hands of its successors - as you know. But it can make things very difficult. And with inflation clearly now running away, we are about to see a second wave of the cost of living increasing permanently, and we're only a couple of years into this decade.
With Truss being as inept as she is, and with "borrow to cut taxes for the well off" being batshit economics, the economic bomb she will leave will be devastating for anyone like you who wants people to like your kind of politics.
Moderation, in all things. Get the bits that you can in a package the majority can accept. Or get nothing because your ideas are seen as terrible.
There already is an economic bomb. Truss at least is planning to defuse it by lowering the tax burden from its modern day high, that is the right thing to do, and if it loses, it loses and I can live with that.
Sunak has already announced plans to have even more pre-election giveaways to the grey vote further burdening the tax burden to fund welfare even more. I'm not worried that may lose if it goes to an election, I'd want it to lose.
If the Tories stand for high tax, high welfare, then I am anti-Tory. I believe in low tax, low welfare, not highest taxes, highest welfare.
Instead she is planning to maintain spending and cut taxes as well. In 2008 CamerOsborne proposed to pull this off by inflating the GFC bubble even further by deregulating more to bring in more tax revenues. They would then "share the proceeds of growth" by matching Labour spending "pound for pound" with tax cuts on top.
That was impossible as the GFC then happened and they and you lot all conveniently forgot about the "faster! faster!" cries from the Tory front bench. But even that plan made more sense than the Trusster. Who wants to borrow money to cut taxes. Which is *madness*.
Grow the pie, get a smaller slice of a larger pie.
The Laffer Curve doesn't always mean cutting taxes is right, especially when taxes are already extremely low. Some people forget there's an upwards slope on the left hand side of the curve. But taxes aren't extremely low, they're the highest they've been in 74 years.
Cut tax rates, get more more tax revenue by taking a smaller percentage of more income.
Besides we have an inflationary environment with tax thresholds frozen. Taxes being taken are already going up due to fiscal drag, there's no need to compound that with substantially higher tax rates too.1 -
It were a teaspoon. And I say bowl, it were more of a thimbleSelebian said:
spoonfuls? bowl? Luxury, I sayCarnyx said:
It's a bit Yorkshire reminiscence, isn't it? "It was a good breakfast when I could push my way between my brothers' legs to get two spoonfuls of porridge before they emptied the shared bowl."RochdalePioneers said:
What on earth is "lower-middle class" anyway. Can we not move past this faux deference nonsense?SouthamObserver said:
Hilariously, the Truss camp has been claiming she had a lower middle class upbringing.Nigelb said:.
Dad was a maths professor, which might have had a bit to do with it. Children of academics tend to get pretty good training irrespective of the school they attend.OldKingCole said:
Truss of course went to a comprehensive… excellent or failing depending on who is reporting… and so won her place at Oxford on merit, not according to "previous contacts "!Wulfrun_Phil said:
False equivalence.JosiasJessop said:Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak went to Oxford. Keir Starmer did his postgrad studies at Oxford.
Which means that if either Truss or Sunak wins, we're probably looking at another six years where the PM attended that institution.
That's not good for politics or the country.
Keir Starmer gained postgraduate entry to Oxford by virtue of achieving a first class undergraduate degree in law at a redbrick university (Leeds). At every stage of his education, starting from the 11+, he got where he did purely by merit.
It's hardly the gilded path that the likes of Johnson and Sunak were propelled down.
I hadn't realised she was at primary school in Scotland.
A source close to the family said: ‘Liz had a vibrant, character-forming childhood. With three older brothers, she had to fight for everything. It was a very solid, lower middle-class upbringing, with loads of friends on free school meals. It was a warm and supportive environment to grow up in.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11020931/How-Liz-Truss-set-path-challenge-Prime-Minister.html0 -
Nope, London is a large, overrated cess pit. Besides, most people who say they "live in London" live in the suburbs. They could be in any shitty suburb in any UK city. Those that can afford to live in Kensington and similar really are living the life, but even they have the sense to have other properties and yachts to escape to.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Tired of London, tired of life.Nigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.0 -
He'd never heard of rush hour commuting on the tube.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Tired of London, tired of life.Nigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.0 -
Trolling, BartBartholomewRoberts said:
Oh FFS, seriously? Some of you lot are absolutely joyless drones.RochdalePioneers said:
Though perhaps not the massive wildfires that burned people out of their homes in numerous places. But you were happy, so who cares about them?BartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
You must not go out and enjoy yourselves, some people might get Covid.
We must not have good weather, some houses might burn.
Can you not allow joy and an element of risk in your lives? Must we stamp out everything that's pleasant in life in order to eliminate all risk?
Yes some houses burn from time to time, that's a shame for those it happens to but it is also what insurance is for. Besides, heat is less deadly than cold, but I don't hear you trying to change the climate in order to eliminate winter.
Meanwhile the good weather of your Australian childhood just gets better and better and the Australians don't like it one bit. Moaning Minnies unable to see bushfires as part of the circle of life.0 -
Nothing there.Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
0 -
I read up on her on Wikipedia and was surprised to hear that she had an affair with a fellow-MP. I don't know whether this is something that is well known among the general public. I would imagine that might come to be counted against her, especially as women tend to be judged more harshly than men for this kind of thing. Speaking personally it would certainly make me less likely to vote for someone although I wouldn't be voting for Truss anyway.nico679 said:Although Truss seems favourite to be next PM one never knows what dirt might come out once she gets into the final 2.
So we can but hope that some miracle happens and the country avoids another 2 years of divisive politics .0 -
Significantly worse than a Boris led one then.Scott_xP said:🚨BREAKING - NEW POLLING🚨
None of the #ConservativeLeadershipContest candidates have won over the public yet, with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...
> ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
> ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
> ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1549675139373170688/photo/10 -
If some of those TT supporters purposely voted for Truss to ensure Badenoch was knocked out then we could be conservative and add 5 votes to PM and take 5 away from Truss .
This then leaves the race at 97 for PM and 81 for Truss .
Which would make today’s result much more uncertain .
0 -
Like most people, I’m in a few WhatsApp groups of fam and friends. The recent weather unpleasantness has of course been much discussedNigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.
I’ve noticed a pattern - those that have @BartholomewRoberts attitude - “oh get over it, stop being a snowflake, enjoy the sun, it’s summer!” ALL come from parts of the country which have shit weather (eg Scotland, NW England) or their region didn’t endure 40C+, or both
No one in the south or SE is saying these dismissive things. We experienced 40C0 -
She was part of the cabinet, but Lizzy Lightweight did not resign. She is just a lying opportunist just like Johnson. She is continuity Johnson and will be as/almost as badIanB2 said:
Hasn't Truss been voting for all that just recently?BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Leaving aside that her so-called beliefs are as mercurial as the incumbent's
2 -
I bet there's a catch, this being the broken US, but good news anyway.HYUFD said:US House of Representatives passes a bill to respect Same Sex Marriage 267 to 157 with 47 Republicans voting with the Democrats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62232518
The more I think about it the more important this reform was. Giving people who happen to be gay the right to marry says very clearly to them, "you are not in any sense a problem, you are a totally normal part of society".
There was sniggering when Cameron claimed it was his biggest achievement in government but I think he was serious when he said it, and also quite correct.1 -
Liz Truss touches odds-on.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Betfair next prime ministerDecrepiterJohnL said:Betfair next prime minister
2.12 Liz Truss 47%
2.52 Rishi Sunak 40%
7.8 Penny Mordaunt 13%
410 Keir Starmer
530 Dominic Raab
Next Conservative leader
2.08 Liz Truss 48%
2.54 Rishi Sunak 39%
7.6 Penny Mordaunt 13%
To be in final two
1.02 Rishi Sunak 98%
1.24 Liz Truss 81%
4.5 Penny Mordaunt 22%
2.06 Liz Truss 49%
2.52 Rishi Sunak 40%
7.8 Penny Mordaunt 13%
320 Keir Starmer
580 Dominic Raab
Next Conservative leader
2.04 Liz Truss 49%
2.54 Rishi Sunak 39%
8 Penny Mordaunt 13%
To be in final two
1.02 Rishi Sunak 98%
1.25 Liz Truss 80%
4.5 Penny Mordaunt 22%
Betfair next prime minister
2 Liz Truss 50%
2.58 Rishi Sunak 39%
8.4 Penny Mordaunt 12%
340 Keir Starmer
600 Dominic Raab
Next Conservative leader
1.97 Liz Truss 51%
2.62 Rishi Sunak 38%
8.6 Penny Mordaunt 12%
To be in final two
1.01 Rishi Sunak 99%
1.23 Liz Truss 81%
4.5 Penny Mordaunt 22%0 -
Collective responsibility means accepting sometimes policies that you dislike, but media reports at the time of Sunak's NI rise said she was strongly opposing the policy and saying there should be more borrowing instead.Nigel_Foremain said:
She was part of the cabinet, but Lizzy Lightweight did not resign. She is just a lying opportunist just like Johnson. She is continuity Johnson and will be as/almost as badIanB2 said:
Hasn't Truss been voting for all that just recently?BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Leaving aside that her so-called beliefs are as mercurial as the incumbent's
Which is the right policy and the one she is now coming out with, which rather indicates its actually what she thinks and she's not just a lying opportunist.0 -
@AllisonPearson Penny Mordaunt has now deleted the Tweet in which she said that a vote for Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss would murder the Conservative PartyDecrepiterJohnL said:
Nothing there.Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
Here's a screen grab of it https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1549679236964835329/photo/12 -
Deleted but presumablyBartholomewRoberts said:
Wow, she's very bitter she's going out today isn't she?Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
Not exactly lining herself up for a Cabinet post as a consolation prize it seems.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/15496792369648353290 -
From memory Sunak wasn't happy with the policy - remember it was Bozo who announced it.BartholomewRoberts said:
Collective responsibility means accepting sometimes policies that you dislike, but media reports at the time of Sunak's NI rise said she was strongly opposing the policy and saying there should be more borrowing instead.Nigel_Foremain said:
She was part of the cabinet, but Lizzy Lightweight did not resign. She is just a lying opportunist just like Johnson. She is continuity Johnson and will be as/almost as badIanB2 said:
Hasn't Truss been voting for all that just recently?BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Leaving aside that her so-called beliefs are as mercurial as the incumbent's
Which is the right policy and the one she is now coming out with, which rather indicates its actually what she thinks and she's not just a lying opportunist.0 -
You are so wrong on this, but you don't live here so how could you know anyway?Nigel_Foremain said:
Nope, London is a large, overrated cess pit. Besides, most people who say they "live in London" live in the suburbs. They could be in any shitty suburb in any UK city. Those that can afford to live in Kensington and similar really are living the life, but even they have the sense to have other properties and yachts to escape to.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Tired of London, tired of life.Nigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.0 -
https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1549679236964835329DecrepiterJohnL said:
Nothing there.Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
1 -
Yet Sunak is doubling down on keeping the policy, and aggravating it by pre-announcing pre-election giveaways to those on welfare who aren't paying the NI hike.eek said:
From memory Sunak wasn't happy with the policy - remember it was Bozo who announced it.BartholomewRoberts said:
Collective responsibility means accepting sometimes policies that you dislike, but media reports at the time of Sunak's NI rise said she was strongly opposing the policy and saying there should be more borrowing instead.Nigel_Foremain said:
She was part of the cabinet, but Lizzy Lightweight did not resign. She is just a lying opportunist just like Johnson. She is continuity Johnson and will be as/almost as badIanB2 said:
Hasn't Truss been voting for all that just recently?BartholomewRoberts said:
Considering Truss is the best candidate, hopefully they will.Mexicanpete said:
As the debates fade from memory, Mordaunt again becomes more attractive as PM. Surely the bunch of numpties that is the Parliamentary Conservative Party won't put the vacuous Truss into the final two...will it?BartholomewRoberts said:Any idea what time the next round of results is today?
I'll be quite gutted now if Penny doesn't go out. Sorry Penny, more due to overwhelming positives for the others than negatives to her.
I can understand though why lefties would be appalled at the Conservatives possibly putting into Downing Street someone who might actually believe in right wing economics, instead of Treasury orthodoxy and ratchetting taxes up to their highest levels in 74 years.
Leaving aside that her so-called beliefs are as mercurial as the incumbent's
Which is the right policy and the one she is now coming out with, which rather indicates its actually what she thinks and she's not just a lying opportunist.0 -
Talk Radio has been amusing this morning. Lots of climate sceptics saying it wasn’t that hot and it only lasted two days, England is due some better weather etc…Leon said:
Like most people, I’m in a few WhatsApp groups of fam and friends. The recent weather unpleasantness has of course been much discussedNigel_Foremain said:
You are such a troll @leon. Quite amusing though. For you though @Leon, I recommend you get a second home in a nice seaside resort. When it gets too hot inland you can retreat to it like I did on Sunday. It is beautiful today, and it has been fantastic the last couple of days.Leon said:
Move southBartholomewRoberts said:All good things must come to an end, its a lot cooler, grey and overcast again today. 😞
Hopefully we get some more of yesterday's good, sunny weather again soon.
Mild, breezy and partly SUNNY here in Camden
Seriously. I think you have a form of SAD. You shouldn’t be in the NW
I tend to agree with @BartholomewRoberts on this issue. We have become such a bunch of snowflakes in this country. A little bit of hot weather or a few inches of snow and we totally lose perspective.
By the way. The only worse place in the UK to live IMO than rainy old Manchester is overrated, overpriced, over-polluted London. A good place to visit perhaps, or have a pied-à-terre, but live there? It is clearly sending you a bit deranged. Sell up and move somewhere more civilised.
I’ve noticed a pattern - those that have @BartholomewRoberts attitude - “oh get over it, stop being a snowflake, enjoy the sun, it’s summer!” ALL come from parts of the country which have shit weather (eg Scotland, NW England) or their region didn’t endure 40C+, or
both
No one in the south or SE is saying these dismissive things. We experienced 40C
I realised a while ago that most people are unable to think dynamically, they can’t understand how factors affect each other over time. Where do these people think the current inhabitants of the Sahel, West Africa and South Asia are likely to end up, when their homes become uneconomic to inhabit thanks to climate change?
Does Bart want to concrete over the whole country to fit a new Lagos every year in future decades?
1 -
Deleted now, what did it say?BartholomewRoberts said:
Wow, she's very bitter she's going out today isn't she?Scott_xP said:Clean campaign latest https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1549670985481261057
Not exactly lining herself up for a Cabinet post as a consolation prize it seems.0
This discussion has been closed.