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How the public view the final three – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT.
    Why do compost heaps catch fire?
    And why do they spread so catastrophically?

    My (limited) understanding is that compost heaps (and grass cuttings/hay bales) are high risk for catching fire because they’re decaying organic matter, which releases heat. A lot of heat. Enough to catch fire. Oddly, a reasonably high water content can fuel the decaying process.

    Not sure how high temperatures in the surrounding atmosphere interact with the process. I’m sure there will be an expert on PB who can enlighten us. What happened to @TwistedFireStopper ?
    He appeared briefly a couple of weeks ago. He's retired now. From fire fighting. Maybe from PB?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    This might explain why Truss is leading the membership vote.

    Only 3% of Tory members put electability top of what they want in a new leader. That was behind personality, delivering Brexit, cutting tax and spending, controlling immigration and combating the Woke agenda

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1549410127983378433?s=20&t=BtBxpZRxu8h3dKoZP3f9_Q

    They seem to have drawn the wrong lessons from facing Brown, EdM and Corbyn.
    Like Hague, IDS, Howard did for Labour.
    Time's up. Your priorities don't matter of you're in Opposition.
    2,.3,4 and 5 are way down your swing voter's list.
    Cost of Living is number 1 by a country mile.
    I don't really get it - a lot of Tories like to trumpet how pragmatic the party is, ruthless in pursuit of power, and spent a lot of time mocking Corbynites for caring more about their own priorities than winning an election to be able to deliver on them.
  • bunncobunnco Posts: 169
    Nads looks so sour because, rather than say "Cheese", Guto Hari said "Get Ready for Rishi".

    Bunnco - Your man really on the spot
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    Good grief. Suella needs to seek help , she clearly is becoming detached from reality .
    Becoming?

    I said that her leadership bid was the most batshit I’ve ever seen in the Tory Party, including John Redwood’s - and I stand by that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    MrEd said:

    Quick observation - if Sunak did organise the voting patterns tonight, has there ever been a politician who has inflicted so much misery on the country as Gavin Williamson?

    He made sure May got elected, was shite in his jobs, and now has manipulated (maybe) the leadership contest to ensure a truly uninspiring selection of candidates.

    He is the Josef Goebbels of the Tory party.

    I was surprised to read this about Gavin Williamson:

    "Meanwhile the former education secretary, Gavin Williamson, who missed the voting cut-off time by just two minutes yesterday, is again among the late stragglers. But today, he’s made it with five minutes to spare. “You’re early!” jokes a member from the 1922 Committee, which is overseeing the vote."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62158367
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    dixiedean said:

    OT.
    Why do compost heaps catch fire?
    And why do they spread so catastrophically?

    Apparently wet bales of hay are a major fire hazard too. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-28558555

    This is because the damp enables microbes to multiply and generate lots of heat from breaking down the organic matter. However, the dry material on the surface of the hay/compost heap act as an effective insulator, and so the material can get very hot, and so ignite the dry material, which then burns very easily.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    What a loon.



  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    Indeed, one reason the 2010-15 Government was so effective was having the "quad" being the main decision makers, not the full Cabinet.
    Good observation - and one of those was Danny Alexander!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    The Land of the Free. Within strict parameters of conformity.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    dixiedean said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT.
    Why do compost heaps catch fire?
    And why do they spread so catastrophically?

    My (limited) understanding is that compost heaps (and grass cuttings/hay bales) are high risk for catching fire because they’re decaying organic matter, which releases heat. A lot of heat. Enough to catch fire. Oddly, a reasonably high water content can fuel the decaying process.

    Not sure how high temperatures in the surrounding atmosphere interact with the process. I’m sure there will be an expert on PB who can enlighten us. What happened to @TwistedFireStopper ?
    He appeared briefly a couple of weeks ago. He's retired now. From fire fighting. Maybe from PB?
    He seemed to be off on holiday with his new campervan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    Good grief. Suella needs to seek help , she clearly is becoming detached from reality .
    Becoming?

    I said that her leadership bid was the most batshit I’ve ever seen in the Tory Party, including John Redwood’s - and I stand by that.
    Who is she even saying it for? She's out of the race!

    Which leads me to believe she is genuinely emotionally distraught because political events are happening.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    As the point has been made before, Britain rules a global Empire with far fewer Ministers.

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    Most of the actual business is done in Cabinet sub-committees.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,293

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    The Isle of Wight (the best place in the UK for sunshine) gets 1,900 hours of sunshine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight#Climate

    London gets around 1,700 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

    Grenoble, in the South of France, where my mother grew up gets around 2,000 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenoble#Climate

    It's funny how we perceive weather in other countries. It can be very different to reality.

    I am painfully aware - as it affects my mood - as to the sunshine hours in different parts of the world. It has driven much of my life, and my endless wanderings. I am always that small boy trying to escape another drizzly day in the rolling Welsh Marches. Fuck knows how psycho I'd be if I'd grown up in grey suburban Manchester or - God help me - the stygian hell of fucking central belt Scotland

    Europe has less sun than the USA, much of Asia can be surprisingly overcast, endless sun can have a bleakness of its own (people who live in Luxor get their own version of SAD, but they are depressed by too much heat, light and sun)

    Nonetheless I know what climate suits me, it is the coastal Med in summer, with mountains behind. Spend winters in Bangkok and spring and June in London. Maybe a short jaunt to the USA for Fall. Perfect!
    Scotland doesn't strike me (having lived in Sussex) as particularly sunless, just colder. When I studied with a lot of international students, the Germans were delighted with the weather, by turns sunny, cloudy, and rainy, because they had constant overcast grey cloud.
    Just look at the stats. 90% of Scotland is one of the most sunless places on earth. That is a statistical fact; only a sliver of the east coast escapes this fate

    This no doubt explains why so many prominent Scot Nats actually live outside Scotland
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Just got back to my girlfriend's and she's had the windows open, with blinds up.

    Arghgghgghgg
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Foxy said:

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    A lot of man-spreading going on in that front row
    I think Kwasi beats BJ by several baw hairs.
    No fun being stuck in the middle seat with those two in the ailse and window seats.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    MrEd said:

    Quick observation - if Sunak did organise the voting patterns tonight, has there ever been a politician who has inflicted so much misery on the country as Gavin Williamson?

    He made sure May got elected, was shite in his jobs, and now has manipulated (maybe) the leadership contest to ensure a truly uninspiring selection of candidates.

    He is the Josef Goebbels of the Tory party.

    Don't forget, he also helped Boris Johnson win the leadership contest in 2019.
    Why couldn’t Williamson be this competent when charged with doing something the country would benefit from?

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Eabhal said:

    Just got back to my girlfriend's and she's had the windows open, with blinds up.

    Arghgghgghgg

    Perfect excuse for getting hot and sweaty then ;)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    This might explain why Truss is leading the membership vote.

    Only 3% of Tory members put electability top of what they want in a new leader. That was behind personality, delivering Brexit, cutting tax and spending, controlling immigration and combating the Woke agenda

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1549410127983378433?s=20&t=BtBxpZRxu8h3dKoZP3f9_Q

    Yep, they've given up.

    The British people are now so many helpless passengers on a doomed flight; the Conservative Party membership being the drunk, suicidal pilot at the controls.
    A lot of PBers are Tory members.
    Yes, so?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    Her's too
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    MrEd said:


    As the point has been made before, Britain rules a global Empire with far fewer Ministers.

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    Most of the actual business is done in Cabinet sub-committees.

    Yeh, but they weren't all total idiots in those days.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    edited July 2022
    Had a splendid evening at Portobello - cycled down, jumped in the sea (properly warm!), BBQ on the beach.

    Police were busy with the youngsters before two men arguing over towel placement on those wooden things that stop the sands moving engaged in physical altercation.

    Both of them picked up their camp chairs, folded them up, and smashed the crap out of each other.

    Sultry cycle home with friends on the disused railways, and through the Meadows.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    Any of them owning up to other bodily fluids?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    The Isle of Wight (the best place in the UK for sunshine) gets 1,900 hours of sunshine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight#Climate

    London gets around 1,700 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

    Grenoble, in the South of France, where my mother grew up gets around 2,000 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenoble#Climate

    It's funny how we perceive weather in other countries. It can be very different to reality.

    I am painfully aware - as it affects my mood - as to the sunshine hours in different parts of the world. It has driven much of my life, and my endless wanderings. I am always that small boy trying to escape another drizzly day in the rolling Welsh Marches. Fuck knows how psycho I'd be if I'd grown up in grey suburban Manchester or - God help me - the stygian hell of fucking central belt Scotland

    Europe has less sun than the USA, much of Asia can be surprisingly overcast, endless sun can have a bleakness of its own (people who live in Luxor get their own version of SAD, but they are depressed by too much heat, light and sun)

    Nonetheless I know what climate suits me, it is the coastal Med in summer, with mountains behind. Spend winters in Bangkok and spring and June in London. Maybe a short jaunt to the USA for Fall. Perfect!
    Taking of the coastal med with mountains behind. That graphic demonstrates the remarkable climate of Provence/Cote d’Azur. More sunshine hours than almost all of Italy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    MrEd said:

    Quick observation - if Sunak did organise the voting patterns tonight, has there ever been a politician who has inflicted so much misery on the country as Gavin Williamson?

    He made sure May got elected, was shite in his jobs, and now has manipulated (maybe) the leadership contest to ensure a truly uninspiring selection of candidates.

    He is the Josef Goebbels of the Tory party.

    Don't forget, he also helped Boris Johnson win the leadership contest in 2019.
    Why couldn’t Williamson be this competent when charged with doing something the country would benefit from?

    He's a back room man, an underling. If that's his level, he should not have been promoted above it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    The Isle of Wight (the best place in the UK for sunshine) gets 1,900 hours of sunshine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight#Climate

    London gets around 1,700 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

    Grenoble, in the South of France, where my mother grew up gets around 2,000 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenoble#Climate

    It's funny how we perceive weather in other countries. It can be very different to reality.

    I am painfully aware - as it affects my mood - as to the sunshine hours in different parts of the world. It has driven much of my life, and my endless wanderings. I am always that small boy trying to escape another drizzly day in the rolling Welsh Marches. Fuck knows how psycho I'd be if I'd grown up in grey suburban Manchester or - God help me - the stygian hell of fucking central belt Scotland

    Europe has less sun than the USA, much of Asia can be surprisingly overcast, endless sun can have a bleakness of its own (people who live in Luxor get their own version of SAD, but they are depressed by too much heat, light and sun)

    Nonetheless I know what climate suits me, it is the coastal Med in summer, with mountains behind. Spend winters in Bangkok and spring and June in London. Maybe a short jaunt to the USA for Fall. Perfect!
    Scotland doesn't strike me (having lived in Sussex) as particularly sunless, just colder. When I studied with a lot of international students, the Germans were delighted with the weather, by turns sunny, cloudy, and rainy, because they had constant overcast grey cloud.
    Just look at the stats. 90% of Scotland is one of the most sunless places on earth. That is a statistical fact; only a sliver of the east coast escapes this fate

    This no doubt explains why so many prominent Scot Nats actually live outside Scotland
    What, like Stuart Dickson in famously sunny Sweden?
    I do agree that seeing blue skies is good for feelings of general wellbeing. But so is seeing hills. Scotland does at least have that. Unless you're in Wick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited July 2022

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

    It's just a buzzword solution to make it seem very simple and easy.

    If it were, we'd have done it already.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    I shed a tear for my return to the back benches more like.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    Percentage of supporters who've made a public endorsement:

    Sunak: 77 / 118 = 65.3%
    Mordaunt: 46 / 92 = 50.0%
    Truss: 43 / 86 = 50.0%

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ffqemZ-YOi7AvAw8HbxmMd0vIbsOXLZ7KpAmNQPD2r8/edit#gid=1566172335
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited July 2022

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    And in Warrington all you need is Eileen Bilton.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Andy_JS said:

    Suella Braverman on GB News: I shed a tear at Boris's last cabinet meeting.

    I shed a tear for my return to the back benches more like.

    She backed Truss - should get something out of her for that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Political betting for example. Heavily restricted or banned in most places.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Pro_Rata said:

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    And in Warrington all you need is Eileen Bilton.
    Her and Brian Bevan.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

    The Tories say that because they haven't got a clue what growth actually requires - which is encouraging long term plans and not focussing on just the next 5 minutes to 3 months...
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    The Isle of Wight (the best place in the UK for sunshine) gets 1,900 hours of sunshine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight#Climate

    London gets around 1,700 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

    Grenoble, in the South of France, where my mother grew up gets around 2,000 hours

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenoble#Climate

    It's funny how we perceive weather in other countries. It can be very different to reality.

    I am painfully aware - as it affects my mood - as to the sunshine hours in different parts of the world. It has driven much of my life, and my endless wanderings. I am always that small boy trying to escape another drizzly day in the rolling Welsh Marches. Fuck knows how psycho I'd be if I'd grown up in grey suburban Manchester or - God help me - the stygian hell of fucking central belt Scotland

    Europe has less sun than the USA, much of Asia can be surprisingly overcast, endless sun can have a bleakness of its own (people who live in Luxor get their own version of SAD, but they are depressed by too much heat, light and sun)

    Nonetheless I know what climate suits me, it is the coastal Med in summer, with mountains behind. Spend winters in Bangkok and spring and June in London. Maybe a short jaunt to the USA for Fall. Perfect!
    Scotland doesn't strike me (having lived in Sussex) as particularly sunless, just colder. When I studied with a lot of international students, the Germans were delighted with the weather, by turns sunny, cloudy, and rainy, because they had constant overcast grey cloud.
    Just look at the stats. 90% of Scotland is one of the most sunless places on earth. That is a statistical fact; only a sliver of the east coast escapes this fate

    This no doubt explains why so many prominent Scot Nats actually live outside Scotland
    What, like Stuart Dickson in famously sunny Sweden?
    I do agree that seeing blue skies is good for feelings of general wellbeing. But so is seeing hills. Scotland does at least have that. Unless you're in Wick.
    OTOH, Wick does have cliffs, castles, an award winning distillery and the world’s shortest street…
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Just realised I haven't eaten a proper full meal.in 48 hours.
    Small and often 5 to 6 times a day is Taiwanese Summer style.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Definetly not worrying for Biden that the Secret Service deleted text messages between agents from the 5th & 6th of January 2021 after they were requested by the Department of Homeland Security.
  • Just gone below 30 in my room here and a nice breeze, finally tolerable again
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,636
    edited July 2022
    @JulianRoepcke
    Former German domestic intelligence chief (six years under Merkel) blames German industry minister Robert Habeck for Russia’s war in Ukraine🇺🇦, saying, “The Ukraine War is HIS war. I won’t freeze for his war.”

    These are the people that advised “I won’t apologize” Angela Merkel.


    https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1549507199474569216
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "David Davis accuses Sunak of 'reallocating' votes

    Former cabinet minister David Davis has accused Rishi Sunak of "reallocating" some votes he picked up from former Tory leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat to Liz Truss.

    Speaking to Andrew Marr on LBC, Mr Davis, who called the leadership race "the dirtiest campaign he had ever seen", said: "Rishi just reallocated some. He's got his four or five chief whips that he has in a boiler room somewhere, reallocated them (to Ms Truss).

    "He wants to fight Liz, because she's the person who will lose the debate with him."

    Mr Davis, who is backing Penny Mordaunt, added: "Presumably what Rishi thinks is that he can take apart Liz's economic patch.

    "I'm the biggest tax cutter in the Tory party and I think she's gone a bit far"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-live-updates-another-tory-candidate-facing-elimination-as-truss-responds-to-sunak-barb-12593360
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785

    Just gone below 30 in my room here and a nice breeze, finally tolerable again

    27C here in Glasgow and about 90-95% humidity - send help.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,636

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.
    We could have a leader who knows all about pork markets.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    darkage said:

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

    Part of the political right in Britain has a pathological obsession with deregulation - a weird legacy of Thatcherism. People like Liz Truss are the most enthusiastic advocates of it. They are like a cult and nothing will deter them from their belief that regulation is a barrier to 'growth'. They had gone quiet for a bit after the Grenfell fire and the May/Bozo governments but now they are back again peddling the same nonsense.

    If people like Truss actually tried to look at the successful free enterprise economies in the world, that they are trying to copy, like Singapore and the USA, then they would see that they are all actually very heavily regulated and the state is very powerful within them. Instead they ignore this evidence and press on driven by what can only be described as a pseudo religious tendency that if the state is rolled back and regulation removed then we will thrive. It is pretty much this philosophy that caused David Cameron to sell of national assets to hostile foreign governments.

    The reality is that these ideas don't have much traction with the public as a whole, but the tories seem to be hell bent on going a bit of a corbyn style nostalgia trip at the moment, in the face of intractible problems that they would rather not address (inflation, war)


    That privatisation didn't work.
    Because it wasn't privatised enough.
    It's redolent of Socialist arguments.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Actually quite arch and funny. I tip the old hat...


    Kit Yates
    @Kit_Yates_Maths
    ·
    5h
    But did thy die of climate change or just with climate change?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    MrEd said:


    As the point has been made before, Britain rules a global Empire with far fewer Ministers.

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    Most of the actual business is done in Cabinet sub-committees.

    Yeh, but they weren't all total idiots in those days.
    And they frequently ruled the Empire very badly, too.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

    Part of the political right in Britain has a pathological obsession with deregulation - a weird legacy of Thatcherism. People like Liz Truss are the most enthusiastic advocates of it. They are like a cult and nothing will deter them from their belief that regulation is a barrier to 'growth'. They had gone quiet for a bit after the Grenfell fire and the May/Bozo governments but now they are back again peddling the same nonsense.

    If people like Truss actually tried to look at the successful free enterprise economies in the world, that they are trying to copy, like Singapore and the USA, then they would see that they are all actually very heavily regulated and the state is very powerful within them. Instead they ignore this evidence and press on driven by what can only be described as a pseudo religious tendency that if the state is rolled back and regulation removed then we will thrive. It is pretty much this philosophy that caused David Cameron to sell of national assets to hostile foreign governments.

    The reality is that these ideas don't have much traction with the public as a whole, but the tories seem to be hell bent on going a bit of a corbyn style nostalgia trip at the moment, in the face of intractible problems that they would rather not address (inflation, war)


    That privatisation didn't work.
    Because it wasn't privatised enough.
    It's redolent of Socialist arguments.
    The earliest economies standardised weights and measures in order to facilitate trade.

    The Tories literally want to let people set their own!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    As we move gracefully towards the Truss years, or so it seems, here’s a fascinating interview with Thatcher.

    https://youtu.be/ICoDKyQcwmU
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    O/T

    "Quillette podcast host Jonathan Kay speaks with Swedish Marxist Malcom Kyeyune, who argues that nominally progressive theories of race and gender are actually aimed at securing influence, employment, and prestige for underemployed university graduates."

    https://quillette.com/2022/07/19/understanding-wokeness-as-a-make-work-strategy-for-privileged-white-collar-workers/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    ohnotnow said:

    Just gone below 30 in my room here and a nice breeze, finally tolerable again

    27C here in Glasgow and about 90-95% humidity - send help.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49072212
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Nadine looks very well-preserved for 82.
    We've found the unfinished Madame Tussaud's model of Nads, long thought lost in a skip.....
    Nadine looks great. She's fought like a tigress for Boris; she deserves whatever Ladyhood she gets.
    I think she'd prefer his manhood to any "Ladyhood"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    edited July 2022
    ...



  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
    Just have five (foreign, economy, constitution/law/devolution, Home, "England") and have each a sub-commitee of cabinet.

    Full cabinet = PM, Foreign, Economy, Constitution, Home, E, S, W, NI (with representation from the devolved governments). Doesn't meet very often.

    I'd be quite keen to make a clear separation between UK level stuff and English stuff (the devolution settlements are asymmetrical - sort that out first).

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Eabhal said:

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
    Just have five (foreign, economy, constitution/law/devolution, Home, "England") and have each a sub-commitee of cabinet.

    Full cabinet = PM, Foreign, Economy, Constitution, Home, E, S, W, NI (with representation from the devolved governments). Doesn't meet very often.

    I'd be quite keen to make a clear separation between UK level stuff and English stuff (the devolution settlements are asymmetrical - sort that out first).

    The problem with the devolution settlements isn’t so much that they are asymmetrical.

    The problem is that the national (eg Scottish) government is spending money that they do not take in taxation.

    This creates a built in incentive toward separatism.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Andy_JS said:

    "David Davis accuses Sunak of 'reallocating' votes

    Former cabinet minister David Davis has accused Rishi Sunak of "reallocating" some votes he picked up from former Tory leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat to Liz Truss.

    Speaking to Andrew Marr on LBC, Mr Davis, who called the leadership race "the dirtiest campaign he had ever seen", said: "Rishi just reallocated some. He's got his four or five chief whips that he has in a boiler room somewhere, reallocated them (to Ms Truss).

    "He wants to fight Liz, because she's the person who will lose the debate with him."

    Mr Davis, who is backing Penny Mordaunt, added: "Presumably what Rishi thinks is that he can take apart Liz's economic patch.

    "I'm the biggest tax cutter in the Tory party and I think she's gone a bit far"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-live-updates-another-tory-candidate-facing-elimination-as-truss-responds-to-sunak-barb-12593360

    Tory MP is shocked to find that "most sophisticated electorate in the world" is...well, erm... quite sophisticated.

    LOL
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Announcement this evening of more US HIMARS being sent to Ukraine. I've lost track of how quickly they're ramping up the numbers of these. Is it +4 HIMARS every 10 days, or fortnight?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663

    Eabhal said:

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
    Just have five (foreign, economy, constitution/law/devolution, Home, "England") and have each a sub-commitee of cabinet.

    Full cabinet = PM, Foreign, Economy, Constitution, Home, E, S, W, NI (with representation from the devolved governments). Doesn't meet very often.

    I'd be quite keen to make a clear separation between UK level stuff and English stuff (the devolution settlements are asymmetrical - sort that out first).

    The problem with the devolution settlements isn’t so much that they are asymmetrical.

    The problem is that the national (eg Scottish) government is spending money that they do not take in taxation.

    This creates a built in incentive toward separatism.
    Well, technically, the SG does raise it's own income tax now (and other stuff). Not sure many people have noticed.

    It's why Sunak fiddled with NI - to get around the SG.
  • ...



    Deal
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Andy_JS said:

    "David Davis accuses Sunak of 'reallocating' votes

    Former cabinet minister David Davis has accused Rishi Sunak of "reallocating" some votes he picked up from former Tory leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat to Liz Truss.

    Speaking to Andrew Marr on LBC, Mr Davis, who called the leadership race "the dirtiest campaign he had ever seen", said: "Rishi just reallocated some. He's got his four or five chief whips that he has in a boiler room somewhere, reallocated them (to Ms Truss).

    "He wants to fight Liz, because she's the person who will lose the debate with him."

    Mr Davis, who is backing Penny Mordaunt, added: "Presumably what Rishi thinks is that he can take apart Liz's economic patch.

    "I'm the biggest tax cutter in the Tory party and I think she's gone a bit far"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-live-updates-another-tory-candidate-facing-elimination-as-truss-responds-to-sunak-barb-12593360

    Tory MP is shocked to find that "most sophisticated electorate in the world" is...well, erm... quite sophisticated.

    LOL
    I don't even believe it, but the outrate from various parties of people assigning their vote how they like can be quite amusing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
    Just have five (foreign, economy, constitution/law/devolution, Home, "England") and have each a sub-commitee of cabinet.

    Full cabinet = PM, Foreign, Economy, Constitution, Home, E, S, W, NI (with representation from the devolved governments). Doesn't meet very often.

    I'd be quite keen to make a clear separation between UK level stuff and English stuff (the devolution settlements are asymmetrical - sort that out first).

    The problem with the devolution settlements isn’t so much that they are asymmetrical.

    The problem is that the national (eg Scottish) government is spending money that they do not take in taxation.

    This creates a built in incentive toward separatism.
    Well, technically, the SG does raise it's own income tax now (and other stuff). Not sure many people have noticed.

    It's why Sunak fiddled with NI - to get around the SG.
    Only a bit. It raises about 10bn and spends about 45bn.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    @JulianRoepcke
    Former German domestic intelligence chief (six years under Merkel) blames German industry minister Robert Habeck for Russia’s war in Ukraine🇺🇦, saying, “The Ukraine War is HIS war. I won’t freeze for his war.”

    These are the people that advised “I won’t apologize” Angela Merkel.


    https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1549507199474569216

    I don't understand this, because Habeck only took office a few weeks before the Ukraine war started.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,925
    Polling by Electoral Calculus and Find Out Now gives Labour a 9% lead against a Mordaunt led Tory party and a 12% lead against a Sunak or Truss led Tory party

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1549485684590878720?s=20&t=aMepF0x-JLQ5qm6sk9fe3w
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    David Davis raises a serious point.

    If Rishi pushes Liz into the final ahead of Truss we could be heading for a Corbyn situation.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Andy_JS said:

    @JulianRoepcke
    Former German domestic intelligence chief (six years under Merkel) blames German industry minister Robert Habeck for Russia’s war in Ukraine🇺🇦, saying, “The Ukraine War is HIS war. I won’t freeze for his war.”

    These are the people that advised “I won’t apologize” Angela Merkel.


    https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1549507199474569216

    I don't understand this, because Habeck only took office a few weeks before the Ukraine war started.
    It does feel like the German elite is riddled with pro-Russian appeasers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I can't be the only one thinking that Truss wont be as bad as the consensus seems to think.

    Still shite though.

    Nope. They always, always surprise on the down side. Always.
    Don't forget, Boris Johnson is not the worst PM in British history, just the worst so far.
    All he had to do to seal his spot was give Nicola her second vote….
  • HYUFD said:

    Polling by Electoral Calculus and Find Out Now gives Labour a 9% lead against a Mordaunt led Tory party and a 12% lead against a Sunak or Truss led Tory party

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1549485684590878720?s=20&t=aMepF0x-JLQ5qm6sk9fe3w

    Labour majority is a good bet
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Andy_JS said:

    "David Davis accuses Sunak of 'reallocating' votes

    Former cabinet minister David Davis has accused Rishi Sunak of "reallocating" some votes he picked up from former Tory leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat to Liz Truss.

    Speaking to Andrew Marr on LBC, Mr Davis, who called the leadership race "the dirtiest campaign he had ever seen", said: "Rishi just reallocated some. He's got his four or five chief whips that he has in a boiler room somewhere, reallocated them (to Ms Truss).

    "He wants to fight Liz, because she's the person who will lose the debate with him."

    Mr Davis, who is backing Penny Mordaunt, added: "Presumably what Rishi thinks is that he can take apart Liz's economic patch.

    "I'm the biggest tax cutter in the Tory party and I think she's gone a bit far"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-live-updates-another-tory-candidate-facing-elimination-as-truss-responds-to-sunak-barb-12593360

    Mistaken strategy if this is the case. Mordaunt is vulnerable to suggestions of laziness, lack of attention to detail and generally being out of her depth as PM, especially at this time . Also economy with the truth (Boris lite). And that's before we get to her wokeness which is a turn-off for many Tory members (nonsense of course but there we are). A different emphasis on tax will not give him the advantage over Truss he expects. Far better to bundle Truss out now but I don't think it will happen because I am not sure he can risk lending votes. So Truss v Sunak it is.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    moonshine said:

    .

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Looks oddly photoshopped. What's going on with her chin?
    When you see them like that you realise Cabinet is far far too big. It should be slimmed down to 10 permanent members and others invited as and when appropriate for their portfolios. No wonder we are tending towards a presidential system, you’re not going to get real debate nor too many dissenters with that many people round the table.

    The optimum team size is 4-8 and is there any good reason apart from political convenience not to keep Cabinet at that level.?

    I'd be interested in what your 8 members of a Cabinet would be? Which departments do you merge? What jobs are important enough to be part of the core team?
    If you were brutal, you’d merge Home and Justice; Health and Social Security; Business and Transport; Foreign Affairs and Trade; and put Communities and Scotland etc into “Nations and Regions”.

    The counter argument is that you then end up with jobs that are too big, ie Home, which explicitly had Justice etc stripped off it because the Ministry kept fucking up.
    Well, presumably each of your eight departments could have upto eight ministers of state to run the sub-departments.

    I was considering folding DWP into the Treasury, maybe a Business, Trade and Economic Infrastructure department (including transport and energy, maybe housing), the Irish combine the jobs of Defence and Foreign minister at the moment, so perhaps a Cabinet minister for External Entanglements is the way to go, but I wasn't sure whether to retain separate Cabinet posts for Health and Education, or have a Department for Public Services. Then there's not much else really, apart from the Department for Keeping Order at Home.
    Just have five (foreign, economy, constitution/law/devolution, Home, "England") and have each a sub-commitee of cabinet.

    Full cabinet = PM, Foreign, Economy, Constitution, Home, E, S, W, NI (with representation from the devolved governments). Doesn't meet very often.

    I'd be quite keen to make a clear separation between UK level stuff and English stuff (the devolution settlements are asymmetrical - sort that out first).

    The problem with the devolution settlements isn’t so much that they are asymmetrical.

    The problem is that the national (eg Scottish) government is spending money that they do not take in taxation.

    This creates a built in incentive toward separatism.
    Well, technically, the SG does raise it's own income tax now (and other stuff). Not sure many people have noticed.

    It's why Sunak fiddled with NI - to get around the SG.
    I've noticed, but I've no idea how it interacts with the Barnett Consequentials that see more money added to the Scottish budget when the Westminster government increases spending.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I can't be the only one thinking that Truss wont be as bad as the consensus seems to think.

    Still shite though.

    Nope. They always, always surprise on the down side. Always.
    Don't forget, Boris Johnson is not the worst PM in British history, just the worst so far.
    All he had to do to seal his spot was give Nicola her second vote….
    Would Nicola have counted as a "British PM" if she'd retained her position in a post independence... oh, I see.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Quillette podcast host Jonathan Kay speaks with Swedish Marxist Malcom Kyeyune, who argues that nominally progressive theories of race and gender are actually aimed at securing influence, employment, and prestige for underemployed university graduates."

    https://quillette.com/2022/07/19/understanding-wokeness-as-a-make-work-strategy-for-privileged-white-collar-workers/

    Thanks Andy.

    That’s a really interesting podcast.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    On presentation problems: After, let me repeat, after, he became president, Bill Clinton hired a coach to help him, regularly. I had remembered the coach as a "drama coach", but in a quick search I found only a "life coach", Tony Robbins. https://www.businessinsider.com/life-coach-tony-robbins-bill-clinton-2014-12

    According to the news accounts I read at the time, the coach helped Clinton present himself in public. So, if Liz Truss (whom I know little about) has presentation problems as Prime Minister, they might be fixable.

    (Fun piece of trivia. George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry all ran for a House seat in their first elections -- and all three lost. That was the only general election Bush lost during his political career.)

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    A cool breeze has finally arrived, thank goodness.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    https://twitter.com/wef/status/1549380352493461505 Some different ideas on how to invest better in our economies.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Well, at least he's a former German intelligence chief, not the current one in that position. (Who I hope doesn't share his views.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    On presentation problems: After, let me repeat, after, he became president, Bill Clinton hired a coach to help him, regularly. I had remembered the coach as a "drama coach", but in a quick search I found only a "life coach", Tony Robbins. https://www.businessinsider.com/life-coach-tony-robbins-bill-clinton-2014-12

    According to the news accounts I read at the time, the coach helped Clinton present himself in public. So, if Liz Truss (whom I know little about) has presentation problems as Prime Minister, they might be fixable.

    (Fun piece of trivia. George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry all ran for a House seat in their first elections -- and all three lost. That was the only general election Bush lost during his political career.)

    Hmm. Except Clinton was a genius at retail, handshake, how y'all doing, years before he became POTUS.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434

    https://twitter.com/wef/status/1549380352493461505 Some different ideas on how to invest better in our economies.

    I thought the WEF was more into destroying them these days.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    https://twitter.com/wef/status/1549380352493461505 Some different ideas on how to invest better in our economies.

    Mazzucato's ideas are hardly "different", they've been the gospel of the IMF for years now, ever since European leaders decided they wanted political cover to borrow and spend on gimmicks. Essentially the idea is to take people's wealth away because the government is better at picking winner sectors, especially since it has the power to rig the game and decide the winner at home with national policy.

    The problem is that Mazzucato's ideas don't seem to work: otherwise Germany would be touting its solar and hydrogen engine export sectors, instead of still struggling to move away from gas.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    rottenborough said: "Hmm. Except Clinton was a genius at retail, handshake, how y'all doing, years before he became POTUS."

    He certainly was (and perhaps still is) way above average as a politician -- but it is also true that, in 1980 when he ran for re-election as Arkansas governor, he lost.

    (Both George W. Bush and Joe Biden are probably under-rated as retail politicians by most in Britain.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Oh FFS..



    Zarah Sultana MP
    @zarahsultana
    ·
    5h
    With record-breaking 40ºC+ temperatures now recorded, don't forget:

    Just 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions.

    This is a capitalist crisis and only system change can avert climate catastrophe.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    What a total shower of cnuts.



    Nads’ uti glower is good though.



    Nadine looks very well-preserved for 82.
    Vampires don't age, but I'm surprised to see her in the sunshine.
    Er... if you think that's sunshine, I'm inclined to agree with @Leon. Move south!
    Doesn't really matter. Natural light will do sufficient damage to get shut of any vampire except those with very high Fortitude or 15th Gen with a lot of stamina.

    Wait.... what......?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,925

    On presentation problems: After, let me repeat, after, he became president, Bill Clinton hired a coach to help him, regularly. I had remembered the coach as a "drama coach", but in a quick search I found only a "life coach", Tony Robbins. https://www.businessinsider.com/life-coach-tony-robbins-bill-clinton-2014-12

    According to the news accounts I read at the time, the coach helped Clinton present himself in public. So, if Liz Truss (whom I know little about) has presentation problems as Prime Minister, they might be fixable.

    (Fun piece of trivia. George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry all ran for a House seat in their first elections -- and all three lost. That was the only general election Bush lost during his political career.)

    Bill Clinton was naturally charismatic even from a young age, Truss just isn't
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    EPG said:

    https://twitter.com/wef/status/1549380352493461505 Some different ideas on how to invest better in our economies.

    Mazzucato's ideas are hardly "different", they've been the gospel of the IMF for years now, ever since European leaders decided they wanted political cover to borrow and spend on gimmicks. Essentially the idea is to take people's wealth away because the government is better at picking winner sectors, especially since it has the power to rig the game and decide the winner at home with national policy.

    The problem is that Mazzucato's ideas don't seem to work: otherwise Germany would be touting its solar and hydrogen engine export sectors, instead of still struggling to move away from gas.
    One of Mazzucato’s arguments is rather that most so-called private innovation is effectively paid for or underwritten or otherwise supported by the state through multiple mechanisms. So the state should reap the benefits of its investments, and be more explicit ant what it is doing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    rottenborough said: "Hmm. Except Clinton was a genius at retail, handshake, how y'all doing, years before he became POTUS."

    He certainly was (and perhaps still is) way above average as a politician -- but it is also true that, in 1980 when he ran for re-election as Arkansas governor, he lost.

    (Both George W. Bush and Joe Biden are probably under-rated as retail politicians by most in Britain.)

    He lost in1980, iirc, as he says in his autobiog, because he put gas (petrol) tax up and the rural types did not take kindly to say the least.

    It must be 15 years since I read his book but it stuck in my mind perhaps because of the Blair scare over fuel protests and then the Macron stuff with the gillettes.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    HYUFD said:

    On presentation problems: After, let me repeat, after, he became president, Bill Clinton hired a coach to help him, regularly. I had remembered the coach as a "drama coach", but in a quick search I found only a "life coach", Tony Robbins. https://www.businessinsider.com/life-coach-tony-robbins-bill-clinton-2014-12

    According to the news accounts I read at the time, the coach helped Clinton present himself in public. So, if Liz Truss (whom I know little about) has presentation problems as Prime Minister, they might be fixable.

    (Fun piece of trivia. George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry all ran for a House seat in their first elections -- and all three lost. That was the only general election Bush lost during his political career.)

    Bill Clinton was naturally charismatic even from a young age, Truss just isn't
    Do you think that this time that will be tested in a month long membership contest?

    The problem with the May Bot coronation was that Leadsome pulled before things got going. Maybe this time Truss and Sunak will battle it out for four weeks or so?

    I am no fan of Andrea Leadsome but she is a better communicator than May ever was.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Ouch..


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    The Conservatives will be lead by a woman. Labour won't know what a woman is.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Ouch..


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    The Conservatives will be lead by a woman. Labour won't know what a woman is.

    Or a brown man. Isn’t that right Jolyon?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    kle4 said:

    I don’t know why Barty Bobbins doesn’t move to the USA.

    All the things he likes - hot weather, housing sprawl, over-reliance on cars, and a marked libertarianism - are here in spades.

    Warrington - not so much.

    In general I find the US is much less libertarian than the U.K. in many ways. The Land of The Fee - and if you don’t do all sorts of deals with politicians at every level, something between expensive and impossible to do business.
    Not sure about this.

    I do agree that it’s surprisingly regulated - and this seems to be a combination of “pork” and a response to litiginousness.

    But underneath that, there’s a streak of libertarianism which is different from British liberalism. There’s also a celebration of entrepreneuralism which the UK sadly lacks.

    Britain is pretty well-regulated - perhaps a bit too nanny-statey - but not too bad. Which is why I puzzle when Tories say the UK just needs to de-regulate itself to growth.

    It's just a buzzword solution to make it seem very simple and easy.

    If it were, we'd have done it already.
    I am still very much waiting for Parliament to realise that auditing medium sized companies, in fact auditing any private limited company, is a complete waste of time and money for said companies.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    Ouch..


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    The Conservatives will be lead by a woman. Labour won't know what a woman is.

    Stupid thing to say considering Truss’s response on Trans rights in the debate was very moderate and dare I say, woke.

    Obviously Penny is a raging wokey.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Amazing. But I find I agree with Farage tonight.

    It is beyond bonkers after all that has happened since the vote in 2016 that the Tories are on the brink of choosing a Remain campaigner over a Leave campaigner.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Oh FFS..



    Zarah Sultana MP
    @zarahsultana
    ·
    5h
    With record-breaking 40ºC+ temperatures now recorded, don't forget:

    Just 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions.

    This is a capitalist crisis and only system change can avert climate catastrophe.

    I'm sure I won't forget that, try as I might.

    Non-capitalists don't produce carbon emissions, of course, everyone knows that. It's a little known scientific fact that the ideology of a government affects the laws of nature.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191

    HYUFD said:

    On presentation problems: After, let me repeat, after, he became president, Bill Clinton hired a coach to help him, regularly. I had remembered the coach as a "drama coach", but in a quick search I found only a "life coach", Tony Robbins. https://www.businessinsider.com/life-coach-tony-robbins-bill-clinton-2014-12

    According to the news accounts I read at the time, the coach helped Clinton present himself in public. So, if Liz Truss (whom I know little about) has presentation problems as Prime Minister, they might be fixable.

    (Fun piece of trivia. George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry all ran for a House seat in their first elections -- and all three lost. That was the only general election Bush lost during his political career.)

    Bill Clinton was naturally charismatic even from a young age, Truss just isn't
    Do you think that this time that will be tested in a month long membership contest?

    The problem with the May Bot coronation was that Leadsome pulled before things got going. Maybe this time Truss and Sunak will battle it out for four weeks or so?

    I am no fan of Andrea Leadsome but she is a better communicator than May ever was.

    Agreed.
This discussion has been closed.