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Rishi looks set to be Next PM betting favourite once again – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,222
    edited July 16

    Pulpstar said:

    The broadside against Penny has been absolutely savage.
    If it ends up as Rishi vs Truss it'll be wall to wall shithousery on him from the mail and telegraph

    I spent 3 hours looking at her book today.

    There's nothing in it.

    It was that which crystallised the evidence from the last 24 hours to lay her.
    She is primarily about the means of relating, I would say, here - and she can do that better that very many politicians, for my money.

    The critical question for the Tory members is : do they want someone who can demonstrably empathise better than many politicians, through a possibly accelerating social crisis, with the questions being in the area of experience or assurance ; or do they want someone more tried, tested and apparently assured over the same period, with nearly the reverse problem in the area of potential excessive assurance, and a possible perception of being out of touch ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    Cyclefree said:

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    12m
    The latest
    @ConHome
    shows Mordaunt is very much beatable. Under scrutiny her notional advantage with members has melted away very quickly.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico

    She was a member of the ERG.

    This article - about Brexit and its role in this campaign - will probably enrage quite a few of you. But worth considering nonetheless.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1548227040481906688?s=21&t=pW9ktnJMALD7_O5rhwt4TA
    He’s very good, very insightful, that bloke.

    Worth quoting. It’ll be poo-poohed but he’s right:

    This may seem a strange thing to say given how dominant an issue Brexit has been since 2016, but my point is that it has rarely, if ever, been talked about in depth, spelling out its actual practical implications and the choices and trade-offs involved. Thus Theresa May was installed following a truncated campaign after which we still, famously or infamously, only knew that ‘Brexit meant Brexit’. That stasis lasted for months until she simply announced in early 2017 that it meant hard Brexit…

    (There never has) been any sustained, honest, realistic political conversation about the practical realities of Brexit. Instead, throughout the May years there were suggestions of securing ‘frictionless trade’ and the ‘exact same benefits’ of membership and in the Johnson years the claim of cakeism and denial of the coming costs, with Labour all the while just talking vaguely of the ‘better deal’ they would achieve. Equally, throughout these years there was virtually no honesty about the actual choices and problems posed by and for Northern Ireland. Instead there was endless nonsense about non-existent ‘alternative arrangements’ and, ultimately, the creation of an Irish Sea border whilst denying that that was what had been agreed. Thereafter, since the end of the transition the political silence about the damaging effects of Brexit has been deafening, whilst all the denial and dishonesty about Northern Ireland has been re-activated.

    … It’s this which marks Brexit out as different to any other political issue, at least in my lifetime. There are plenty of examples of divisive policies but they’ve always been deliverable even when they have been undesirable, and they’ve always been discussable in more or less rational ways. Brexit isn’t like this because it promised impossible or contradictory things, which by definition can’t be delivered. But since even saying this is (still) deemed offensive to the ‘will of the people’, no honest or realistic political conversation has ever been possible within or between the two main parties. That extends from the most general level of Brexit having been enacted as hard Brexit, right down to the multiple and complex trade-offs in decisions about regulatory alignment or divergence in particular sectors. This evisceration of honesty and realism is the “radioactive pollution” that has poisoned the political ground, as I expressed it in last week’s post, and until it is cleansed the instability of the last six years will continue.

    Absolutely right. We've got a number of Tories and quasi-Tories on here swearing blind that Brexit is done in almost the same breath as they say the Irish Channel border doesn't matter because Boris will wave it away with some future legislation or something, while all this time the UK has *already* been split into two fiscal and legislative realms as a conscious decision of Boris Johnson and his allies, and touted as the best possible decision.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    Cyclefree said:

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    12m
    The latest
    @ConHome
    shows Mordaunt is very much beatable. Under scrutiny her notional advantage with members has melted away very quickly.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico

    She was a member of the ERG.

    This article - about Brexit and its role in this campaign - will probably enrage quite a few of you. But worth considering nonetheless.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1548227040481906688?s=21&t=pW9ktnJMALD7_O5rhwt4TA
    He’s very good, very insightful, that bloke.

    Worth quoting. It’ll be poo-poohed but he’s right:

    This may seem a strange thing to say given how dominant an issue Brexit has been since 2016, but my point is that it has rarely, if ever, been talked about in depth, spelling out its actual practical implications and the choices and trade-offs involved. Thus Theresa May was installed following a truncated campaign after which we still, famously or infamously, only knew that ‘Brexit meant Brexit’. That stasis lasted for months until she simply announced in early 2017 that it meant hard Brexit…

    (There never has) been any sustained, honest, realistic political conversation about the practical realities of Brexit. Instead, throughout the May years there were suggestions of securing ‘frictionless trade’ and the ‘exact same benefits’ of membership and in the Johnson years the claim of cakeism and denial of the coming costs, with Labour all the while just talking vaguely of the ‘better deal’ they would achieve. Equally, throughout these years there was virtually no honesty about the actual choices and problems posed by and for Northern Ireland. Instead there was endless nonsense about non-existent ‘alternative arrangements’ and, ultimately, the creation of an Irish Sea border whilst denying that that was what had been agreed. Thereafter, since the end of the transition the political silence about the damaging effects of Brexit has been deafening, whilst all the denial and dishonesty about Northern Ireland has been re-activated.

    … It’s this which marks Brexit out as different to any other political issue, at least in my lifetime. There are plenty of examples of divisive policies but they’ve always been deliverable even when they have been undesirable, and they’ve always been discussable in more or less rational ways. Brexit isn’t like this because it promised impossible or contradictory things, which by definition can’t be delivered. But since even saying this is (still) deemed offensive to the ‘will of the people’, no honest or realistic political conversation has ever been possible within or between the two main parties. That extends from the most general level of Brexit having been enacted as hard Brexit, right down to the multiple and complex trade-offs in decisions about regulatory alignment or divergence in particular sectors. This evisceration of honesty and realism is the “radioactive pollution” that has poisoned the political ground, as I expressed it in last week’s post, and until it is cleansed the instability of the last six years will continue.

    Oh God what a load of shite
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454

    Big test of the BBC 's and the Met Office's rival systems - BBC still predicting 40, and the Met Office 35.

    I predict the Met Office will get into the final two, with Sunak providing refreshments.

    Where for? There will be some decent regional variation.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    edited July 16
    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286

    Big test of the BBC 's and the Met Office's rival systems - BBC still predicting 40, and the Met Office 35.

    I predict the Met Office will get into the final two, with Sunak providing refreshments.

    Met Office forecast video has 40 in London on Tuesday.
    https://youtu.be/G9W2B3nySac?t=172s
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,938
    edited July 16

    Cyclefree said:

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    12m
    The latest
    @ConHome
    shows Mordaunt is very much beatable. Under scrutiny her notional advantage with members has melted away very quickly.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico

    She was a member of the ERG.

    This article - about Brexit and its role in this campaign - will probably enrage quite a few of you. But worth considering nonetheless.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1548227040481906688?s=21&t=pW9ktnJMALD7_O5rhwt4TA
    He’s very good, very insightful, that bloke.

    Worth quoting. It’ll be poo-poohed but he’s right:

    This may seem a strange thing to say given how dominant an issue Brexit has been since 2016, but my point is that it has rarely, if ever, been talked about in depth, spelling out its actual practical implications and the choices and trade-offs involved. Thus Theresa May was installed following a truncated campaign after which we still, famously or infamously, only knew that ‘Brexit meant Brexit’. That stasis lasted for months until she simply announced in early 2017 that it meant hard Brexit…

    (There never has) been any sustained, honest, realistic political conversation about the practical realities of Brexit. Instead, throughout the May years there were suggestions of securing ‘frictionless trade’ and the ‘exact same benefits’ of membership and in the Johnson years the claim of cakeism and denial of the coming costs, with Labour all the while just talking vaguely of the ‘better deal’ they would achieve. Equally, throughout these years there was virtually no honesty about the actual choices and problems posed by and for Northern Ireland. Instead there was endless nonsense about non-existent ‘alternative arrangements’ and, ultimately, the creation of an Irish Sea border whilst denying that that was what had been agreed. Thereafter, since the end of the transition the political silence about the damaging effects of Brexit has been deafening, whilst all the denial and dishonesty about Northern Ireland has been re-activated.

    … It’s this which marks Brexit out as different to any other political issue, at least in my lifetime. There are plenty of examples of divisive policies but they’ve always been deliverable even when they have been undesirable, and they’ve always been discussable in more or less rational ways. Brexit isn’t like this because it promised impossible or contradictory things, which by definition can’t be delivered. But since even saying this is (still) deemed offensive to the ‘will of the people’, no honest or realistic political conversation has ever been possible within or between the two main parties. That extends from the most general level of Brexit having been enacted as hard Brexit, right down to the multiple and complex trade-offs in decisions about regulatory alignment or divergence in particular sectors. This evisceration of honesty and realism is the “radioactive pollution” that has poisoned the political ground, as I expressed it in last week’s post, and until it is cleansed the instability of the last six years will continue.

    Has there ever been honesty about the implications of EU membership/non membership since c.1970?

    Membership/non-membership has always been sold as cost-free by each side.

    Joining the EU, and such wheezes as relabadging the EU constitution as the Lisbon Treatry did just as much to poison the well, as leaving did.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,222
    edited July 16

    Big test of the BBC 's and the Met Office's rival systems - BBC still predicting 40, and the Met Office 35.

    I predict the Met Office will get into the final two, with Sunak providing refreshments.

    Met Office forecast video has 40 in London on Tuesday.
    https://youtu.be/G9W2B3nySac?t=172s
    But 35 on Monday when the BBC is predicting 40, as I understand it ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    True but also false. War bonds say hello.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582
    dixiedean said:

    Off topic.
    But as of 5 minutes ago I am officially a single digit Kyu! (9.8 to be exact. Starts at 25 for a total novice).
    That's my Go playing handicap.
    It's not dissimilar to a golf handicap.
    Taken me years.
    I am immensely proud of this.

    How does one get into Go?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    True but also false. War bonds say hello.
    TBF that had special terms imposed on it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286

    Big test of the BBC 's and the Met Office's rival systems - BBC still predicting 40, and the Met Office 35.

    I predict the Met Office will get into the final two, with Sunak providing refreshments.

    Met Office forecast video has 40 in London on Tuesday.
    https://youtu.be/G9W2B3nySac?t=172s
    But 35 on Monday where the BBC is predicting 40, as I understand it ?
    39 Monday. It's a 3-minute video and you can skip past Sunday.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.

    The regulator just needs to ban payment of any dividends until a minimum standard is met. If the current investors sell then that's their prerogative.

    Though, I tend to agree any monopoly based company should be in state hands. I don't see any advantage to private ownership of water companies. All they've done is line their pockets based on a poor regulator and easy to circumvent rules around investment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    edited July 16

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    Ha ha. Coming from the master of pointless verbiage, that's a bit rich.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited July 16

    The Tory membership is at the same stage now as the Labour membership was when they elected Corbyn, i.e. totally out of touch with political reality.

    Don't forget the Labour membership and registered supporters also elected the more leftwing Ed Miliband over the more centrist David Miliband in 2010 before they elected Corbyn in 2015 and again in 2016. It took them 13 years after Blair left office and 10 years after the 2010 defeat of Brown to elect Starmer over Long Bailey ie the centrist candidate in a Labour leadership race.

    The Tories are probably only getting started in electing rightwing candidates over centrists as their leader, it took them 3 general election defeats for the members to elect Cameron as leader in 2005 after all
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297

    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.

    Not off topic at all.
    There is always a certain output of raw effluent on every thread.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582
    MaxPB said:

    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.

    The regulator just needs to ban payment of any dividends until a minimum standard is met. If the current investors sell then that's their prerogative.

    Though, I tend to agree any monopoly based company should be in state hands. I don't see any advantage to private ownership of water companies. All they've done is line their pockets based on a poor regulator and easy to circumvent rules around investment.
    Should apply the same principle to PFI project companies
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Uh ho


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    edited July 16
    dixiedean said:

    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.

    Not off topic at all.
    There is always a certain output of raw effluent on every thread.
    E\specially in view of the Eye's cover this week.

    Edit: https://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Why should the young pay for the protection of the old, when it is the old with all the wealth?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic.
    But as of 5 minutes ago I am officially a single digit Kyu! (9.8 to be exact. Starts at 25 for a total novice).
    That's my Go playing handicap.
    It's not dissimilar to a golf handicap.
    Taken me years.
    I am immensely proud of this.

    How does one get into Go?
    Learned to play in Taiwan. People play on the street there. Where I was frequently beaten by 7 and 8 year olds.
    Restarted playing Online few years back. Usually have 3 to 6 games going at once.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    You’re embarrassing yourself again.
    Try posting on thaibrides.com or whatever it is you do in your brexity cups.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic.
    But as of 5 minutes ago I am officially a single digit Kyu! (9.8 to be exact. Starts at 25 for a total novice).
    That's my Go playing handicap.
    It's not dissimilar to a golf handicap.
    Taken me years.
    I am immensely proud of this.

    How does one get into Go?
    I think you get £200 when you pass it.
    Which at the time was enough to buy a house on Mayfair, if I recall correctly. Probably wouldn't get you much these days, though. A sleeping bag on Mayfair?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    edited July 16

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Why should the young pay for the protection of the old, when it is the old with all the wealth?
    The interest rate on my student loan is suddenly looking a lot more reasonable, to be fair. (1.5%, Scotland).

    If they increase that, keep the triple lock, and we have a hot summer...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Uh ho


    😆😆😆
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    You’re embarrassing yourself again.
    Try posting on thaibrides.com or whatever it is you do in your brexity cups.
    Just leave the site. It's not hard. You're living in America and you are not British. Get tae fuck
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    I thought fiscal drag on income tax bandings would help with that? It's not really talked about much.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    MaxPB said:

    Completely and utterly off topic, but I don't care. Published on Thursday, this seems to have got virtually zero attention (unless I've missed it), and I think it should have:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021
    In summary, according to the government's own Environment Agency in this coruscating annual report, the water/sewage companies are the epitome of gross incompetence and corporate greed. Their record on pollution and its prevention is abysmal, and getting worse.

    Nationalise the lot of them, I say. And ask the Tory candidates what they would do about it, at tomorrow's debate.

    The regulator just needs to ban payment of any dividends until a minimum standard is met. If the current investors sell then that's their prerogative.

    Though, I tend to agree any monopoly based company should be in state hands. I don't see any advantage to private ownership of water companies. All they've done is line their pockets based on a poor regulator and easy to circumvent rules around investment.
    Nice one. We'll have you voting Labour yet.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Can anyone explain how Rishi is no longer seen as a proper Brexiteer?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    edited July 16
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    As I’ve explained umpteen times, I’m half British, my kids are British, I have property in the UK, and I will certainly return at some point. I hope to retire in various places, including the UK.

    And US politics is boring.

    You call me a Britain-hater, but I mostly just hate the various Brexity declinists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    You. Are. Not. British

    You. Do. Not. Live. In. Britain

    Be off, now; be off
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    edited July 16

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    As I’ve explained umpteen times, I’m half British, my kids are British, I have property in the UK, and I will certainly return at some point. I hope to retire in various places, including the UK.

    And US politics is boring.

    You call me a Britain-hater, but I mostly just hate the various Brexity declinists.
    Just go away

    The extent of your British-ness is

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    Listen to yourself, you twat. It is embarrassing. You live in New York. American politics is fascinating. Go on to the American version of politicalbetting.com

    Just go away
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    I thought fiscal drag on income tax bandings would help with that? It's not really talked about much.
    Fiscal drag?
    Tax and trans in one phrase. You think we'd be hearing of nowt else just now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    Yes, but that's different to the one-off £300-£400bn cash Covid debt.

    If there's a structural deficit aspect on top then, yes, we have to deal with that in the usual manner.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    edited July 16
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    PB: British blog for British anoraks?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    edited July 16

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    edited July 16

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    PB: British blog for British anoraks?
    "British" itself a tendentious word in these times when the Brexiters have carefully cut Northern Ireland partly free.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    I thought fiscal drag on income tax bandings would help with that? It's not really talked about much.
    To some degree, yet we expect a 9-11% rise in pension entitlements for the state and public sector. That's going to cost tens of billions per year extra to fund indefinitely and it will cumulate.

    Fiscal drag doesn't particularly make much of a dent in that, hence the NI rise. If the government had been honest about it they would have put the basic rate up to 22p and the higher rate up to 42p.

    My personal method would be pension benefit tapering and withdrawal for pensioners with private income of £35k or higher and a special higher rate of tax for pension income in excess of £60k and a wealth tax on non-primary residential property, at least something like 1% of the gross value per year, rather than net value.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    You’re embarrassing yourself again.
    Try posting on thaibrides.com or whatever it is you do in your brexity cups.
    Just leave the site. It's not hard. You're living in America and you are not British. Get tae fuck
    For the core purpose of the site, I think our overseas posters are useful. It would also be great if we had more who live here but grew up elsewhere.

    I think more Brits though Trump could happen than US journos/pundits, for example. Experience of Brexit. And avoidance of normalcy bias, as you would say.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    As I’ve explained umpteen times, I’m half British, my kids are British, I have property in the UK, and I will certainly return at some point. I hope to retire in various places, including the UK.

    And US politics is boring.

    You call me a Britain-hater, but I mostly just hate the various Brexity declinists.
    Just go away

    The extent of your British-ness is

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    Listen to yourself, you twat. It is embarrassing. You live in New York. American politics is fascinating. Go on to the American version of politicalbetting.com

    Just go away
    I’m embarrassed for you.
    Even by your standards.
    This is shitting your y-fronts on stage level stuff.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    edited July 16

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    Just stop. Just leave. It's not hard

    I would not spend multiple hours commenting on the internal politics of a country I do not live in and have no desire to return to, and in which I was not born

    It's simple bad manners (amongst many other things). I don't believe you are ill-mannered. So: desist
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,631
    By the time of the Sky debate we'll be down to the final three. If Rishi Rich is looking like a shoo-in to finish top, then it could turn into a total cat fight between The Truss and Penny-Wise-Pound-Foolish for the second spot.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    I thought fiscal drag on income tax bandings would help with that? It's not really talked about much.
    To some degree, yet we expect a 9-11% rise in pension entitlements for the state and public sector. That's going to cost tens of billions per year extra to fund indefinitely and it will cumulate.

    Fiscal drag doesn't particularly make much of a dent in that, hence the NI rise. If the government had been honest about it they would have put the basic rate up to 22p and the higher rate up to 42p.

    My personal method would be pension benefit tapering and withdrawal for pensioners with private income of £35k or higher and a special higher rate of tax for pension income in excess of £60k and a wealth tax on non-primary residential property, at least something like 1% of the gross value per year, rather than net value.
    All this is dwarfed by the big bulge in boomers retiring, and needing care/NHS, and in the long term our low fertility rate. The NRS (Scottish ONS) keep revising their working age projections down. Eeek.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597

    I've done so much trading that my best result is now Dominic Raab as caretaker.

    Up £2.2k if that happens.

    Caretaker or Jani-Tory? :lol:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Cost of living, growth, wokery and immigration have a LOT to do with Brexit - or rather what was promised by the Leave site. So of bloody course none of them want to come clean.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 87
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    Just stop. Just leave. It's not hard

    I would not spend multiple hours commenting on the internal politics of a country I do not live in and have no desire to return to, and in which I was not born

    It's simple bad manners (amongst many other things). I don't believe you are ill-mannered. So: desist
    As much as @Leon is my PB hero, @Gardenwalker please do ignore this. You bring an interesting perspective. And it's Saturday night.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    You’re embarrassing yourself again.
    Try posting on thaibrides.com or whatever it is you do in your brexity cups.
    Just leave the site. It's not hard. You're living in America and you are not British. Get tae fuck
    Get tae fuck is hideous cultural appropriation.
    so is pòg mo thòin.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582
    Carnyx said:

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Cost of living, growth, wokery and immigration have a LOT to do with Brexit - or rather what was promised by the Leave site. So of bloody course none of them want to come clean.
    Brexit was literally the cure to whatever frothing ill each individual voter had.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,635
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pensfold said:

    If I was on the Tory Right, or perhaps a die-hard Boris loyalist, I too would plump for Truss.

    There’s insufficient evidence in the contest so far to suggest she’s a complete disaster, even if PB thinks otherwise.

    tbf to Liz Truss, in the Channel 4 debate she had at least thought about the affordability of tax cuts and government debt, unlike the others (except Rishi).
    To be fair, she also gave a better answer on Covid debt than Rishi.

    I think the value is with Truss.
    Debt is fungible. There is no such thing as COVID debt.
    The point is that it's a "one off" and not an enduring structural deficit, so you can subsume it into the overall national debt (where it becomes increasingly insignificant over time) and spread repayments over a long period.
    Not necessarily, COVID has resulted in quite a large budget deficit, most of which is structural and requires spending cuts and tax rises to balance before we can begin to grow our way out of it.

    We are 1.8% above our Feb 2020 level but the reality is that we are ~2.7% behind where we would otherwise be, yet spending has continued to rise and the government is about to put a lot of irreversible entitlement rises in place which will cumulate and cause bigger deficits over time.
    I thought fiscal drag on income tax bandings would help with that? It's not really talked about much.
    To some degree, yet we expect a 9-11% rise in pension entitlements for the state and public sector. That's going to cost tens of billions per year extra to fund indefinitely and it will cumulate.

    Fiscal drag doesn't particularly make much of a dent in that, hence the NI rise. If the government had been honest about it they would have put the basic rate up to 22p and the higher rate up to 42p.

    My personal method would be pension benefit tapering and withdrawal for pensioners with private income of £35k or higher and a special higher rate of tax for pension income in excess of £60k and a wealth tax on non-primary residential property, at least something like 1% of the gross value per year, rather than net value.
    All interesting suggestions but why not just extend NI to all income? Why should I as a pensioner pay lower rates of tax on my income than those of you who are working?

    Better still combine that with a switch from tax on income to a tax on wealth. That way the government could potentially reduce the combined IC & NI for workers whilst increasing the overall tax take, which is necessary for the next few years (cost of covid & Brexit).
  • TresTres Posts: 1,347
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    this is a local site for local people
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454

    Carnyx said:

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Cost of living, growth, wokery and immigration have a LOT to do with Brexit - or rather what was promised by the Leave site. So of bloody course none of them want to come clean.
    Brexit was literally the cure to whatever frothing ill each individual voter had.
    Yes, and see also the SNP and Scottish independence.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,635

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    Just stop. Just leave. It's not hard

    I would not spend multiple hours commenting on the internal politics of a country I do not live in and have no desire to return to, and in which I was not born

    It's simple bad manners (amongst many other things). I don't believe you are ill-mannered. So: desist
    As much as @Leon is my PB hero, @Gardenwalker please do ignore this. You bring an interesting perspective. And it's Saturday night.
    Agree re support for @Gardenwalker. @Leon needs to take some time in the cooler tbh.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Revolutions consume themselves, and usually end with progressively more radical revolutionaries bumping each other off. Oh dear never mind.

    For 50 years everything bad has been blamed on Brussels. We can at least as Remainers enjoy the schadenfreude of blaming everything bad on Brexit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    I think he's lonely in America.....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    22 off the last 5 overs.
    That's not even Test match pace.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    But its absence from the Tory leadership contest is hugely telling. They know it’s a fuck up, otherwise they’d be trumpeting it’s benefits every time they opened their mouths. But they aren’t. They all witter on about the economy, sorting the economy, without mentioning the impact Brexit has had and is having.

    They’re all fundamentally unserious. But they can’t tell the truth cos the grassroots refuse to hear it.

    The governing party is simply refusing to acknowledge the biggest issue the country continues to face, that seeps into everything else. It’s laughable. And tragic.
    Because it's not the biggest issue of the day. Inflation is and Brexit makes precisely zero difference to inflation. In case you hadn't noticed the inflation rate across Europe is the same or worse than here.

    You want to see issues with Brexit where few exist because you want to be vindicated in voting to sell out the nation to Brussels. It's fine, that's up to you. Really Brexit is neither here nor there, we've left the EU, the problems facing us pre dated it and we continue to face them, unless you think staying in the EU would have magicked up an additional 2m houses and resulted in the death of 1m or so over 80s.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    You have, and I ignore it. Because you're otherwise an interesting poster.

    We all know what you think about Brexit. And I disagree. I find it politically liberating, it's given us agility and independence, and it's killed off public concern about immigration and EU federalism.

    Chris Grey is just farting out what he always does. It offers no insight whatsoever.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,927
    HYUFD said:

    The Tory membership is at the same stage now as the Labour membership was when they elected Corbyn, i.e. totally out of touch with political reality.

    Don't forget the Labour membership and registered supporters also elected the more leftwing Ed Miliband over the more centrist David Miliband in 2010 before they elected Corbyn in 2015 and again in 2016. It took them 13 years after Blair left office and 10 years after the 2010 defeat of Brown to elect Starmer over Long Bailey ie the centrist candidate in a Labour leadership race.

    The Tories are probably only getting started in electing rightwing candidates over centrists as their leader, it took them 3 general election defeats for the members to elect Cameron as leader in 2005 after all
    In fact Labour Party members voted for David 54-46 in the final round. Very similar to MPs who voted for David 53-47.

    Ed only won because he won the affiliates (ie unions) 60-40.

    There were no registered supporters back in 2010.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Labour_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Overall_result
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697

    Carnyx said:

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Cost of living, growth, wokery and immigration have a LOT to do with Brexit - or rather what was promised by the Leave site. So of bloody course none of them want to come clean.
    Brexit was literally the cure to whatever frothing ill each individual voter had.
    Yes, and see also the SNP and Scottish independence.
    Not to the same extent, imo. When the UK was part of the EU is a pretty clear what independence would mean (except for currency).

    It's more like it now due to the uncertainty over the border and the market with rump UK. For example, I'd be much more likely to vote for it if I was under the impression the border would remain open, and be pissed if we went for "hard Indy" instead.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    Just stop. Just leave. It's not hard

    I would not spend multiple hours commenting on the internal politics of a country I do not live in and have no desire to return to, and in which I was not born

    It's simple bad manners (amongst many other things). I don't believe you are ill-mannered. So: desist
    As much as @Leon is my PB hero, @Gardenwalker please do ignore this. You bring an interesting perspective. And it's Saturday night.
    Agree re support for @Gardenwalker. @Leon needs to take some time in the cooler tbh.
    Agreed. Actually embarrassing as a fellow Brit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    I think he's lonely in America.....
    Just as Brexiteers will be in the UK in a year or two

    It is just tragic how utterly you guys fucked up and comical how impossible you find admitting it is. You are like someone living under a Heathrow flightpath in 2022 contending that heavier than air flight is conceptually impossible and those Wright brother dorks are utter cock suckers.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,927
    Goodness me the odds are all over the place.

    Now Penny favourite again at 2.5.
    Rishi 2.76, Truss 6.2. Kemi 13.

    I think this shows absolutely nobody's support is very solid. Members (and maybe some MPs) may well switch their choice depending on debate performance and whatever else happens.
  • TresTres Posts: 1,347
    Leon clearly still hasn't gotten laid.
  • And in the sin bin he goes...
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Whereas you seem to loathe the old.



  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,318
    Leon said:

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    You. Are. Not. British

    You. Do. Not. Live. In. Britain

    Be off, now; be off
    The authentic voice of Brexit Britain.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,582
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Whereas you seem to loathe the old.



    Just the ones that hoard wealth and vote to retain the hoard.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    You don’t stop caring for your original home and taking an interest in what happens there just because you’ve emigrated.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,635

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am glad there are other Chris Grey fans on here. He’s peerless in his analysis.

    He's a Remoaner. He doesn't begin to understand Brexit. It's pointless verbiage from a loser
    No, he’s very good.
    You have quite bad judgment on this due to being a rancid and often drunken old gammon.
    Yes, well done, blah

    You're a racist, socially awkward Kiwi - by your own admission - who has almost zero connection to the UK, who lives in New York, who expresses constant distaste for the United Kingdom, and who has no intention of ever living in the UK ever again

    Quite frankly, what the fuck are you doing on this British website which is largely aimed at British people discussing British matters?

    Fuck off and find your own place. Your commentary is ridiculous given how little attachment you have to OUR country
    Point of order. Many posters north of the border only have attachment to part of the country.
    Indeed. But as long as you are British you are, of course, as free as any Brit to say anything you like about Britain

    I genuinely do not understand bloated sow's-bladders like @Gardenwalker who not only is not British. but doesn't live in Britain, and despises Britain, and wants to retire to somewhere other than Britain. How not involved in Britain can you be until you realise your vacuous opinion on Britain - from Manhattan - is not sought by Britons?

    FFS man, go on to the American version of PB.com. It will be better for all. Dick

    I find @Gardenwalker is an insightful and interesting poster except when he starts talking about Brexit. Then he turns into a nob.

    What is it about the subject that does this to people?

    I don't think even he has much love for the EU.

    Something else is going on.
    Ignoring the nob (I’ve called you far worse), I think Brexit was a tragic mis-step that makes Britain poorer, weaker and more divided.

    I certainly don’t “love” the EU, I’m not sure many Remainers do, that’s a misconception of Brexiters I think.

    But I agree, it’s boring now.
    Chris Grey’s article is very insightful on the race itself.
    Just stop. Just leave. It's not hard

    I would not spend multiple hours commenting on the internal politics of a country I do not live in and have no desire to return to, and in which I was not born

    It's simple bad manners (amongst many other things). I don't believe you are ill-mannered. So: desist
    As much as @Leon is my PB hero, @Gardenwalker please do ignore this. You bring an interesting perspective. And it's Saturday night.
    Agree re support for @Gardenwalker. @Leon needs to take some time in the cooler tbh.
    No sooner said than done.

    Well done @mods.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454

    Leon said:

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    You. Are. Not. British

    You. Do. Not. Live. In. Britain

    Be off, now; be off
    The authentic voice of Brexit Britain.
    Not really, just a rather drunk pub bore off on one late at night.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,920
    edited July 16
    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,635
    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    Temp presumably (hopefully). Question is are we due another metamorphosis?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    MikeL said:

    Goodness me the odds are all over the place.

    Now Penny favourite again at 2.5.
    Rishi 2.76, Truss 6.2. Kemi 13.

    I think this shows absolutely nobody's support is very solid. Members (and maybe some MPs) may well switch their choice depending on debate performance and whatever else happens.

    Yes, I am sitting pretty at present. I am green across the board (apart from TiT) best on Badenoch then Truss, the Mordaunt then on Sunak.

    I think that I will sit on my current position as I don't see much value. Possibly a smidgen on Truss, who surely won't be so crap in the next debate.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    Seven needed off two.
    Lanky chucked this away. Or maybe not.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    edited July 16
    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    Same thing
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,284

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    Fear not, Leone Peone has told us Scot Nats to fck off at various times, pay him no mind. His candidates for banishment or internment are without limit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Whereas you seem to loathe the old.
    Just the ones that hoard wealth and vote to retain the hoard.
    Taz was pretty much giving online head to a now-departed poster who liked giving it large about how much dosh he had. So you seem to be on the right track here.
This discussion has been closed.