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Rishi looks set to be Next PM betting favourite once again – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,791
    edited July 2022
    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total
    chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Yup. We should all plan for multiple evenings this winter with no lights, heating, communications or power in general. It’s really no big deal for most people if you’ve thought it through even slightly. It could be potentially quite a serious matter for a number of vulnerable households if the power goes off at a time of very cold weather and they have made no preparations at all.

    We might get unlucky and have a period of very cold but very still weather. But with any luck we’ll have a blowy mild winter. Much of Europe is in a tricky spot for sure but governments have started mentally preparing their populations for it and begun conversations about how they will approach rationing. We’ve had bugger all here, to the extent that this week Shell’s CEO clearly decided it was time to give some leadership on it.
    It's when being into the outdoors is useful.

    Got my bike,stove, gas and noodles ready to go 😎
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,649

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mordaunt in serious trouble, looks like the Sunday Times is going to lead on her lies about Self ID. Well spotted @Cyclefree.

    That's not really trouble, the Times have been gunning for her from the get go.
    Tory MPs and members read the Sunday Times and they have a leaked memo that shows the the policy changed when Kemi and Liz took over not when Penny was on charge as she has claimed on multiple occasions.

    The Walter Mitty accusations look like they are true to me.
    I don't think Tory MP's need the Times to get their info on this. Penny already seems to have devoted fans and fierce critics amongst the parliamentary party. Members might be different.
    The detail is pretty devastating for her, it's not her specific position on self ID, it's that she's lied multiple times to suggest it was different. MPs will have had "assurances" which are now directly contradicted by hard evidence.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,953
    One key thing still to come is big hitter endorsements - Major, Hague, Howard, Cameron, May.

    I suspect they'll all wait until the Final as they'll have some influence over members, but not MPs.

    If Truss is in the Final, they will all endorse the other candidate. And that will carry significant weight.

    If it's Rishi v Penny then less clear cut but I suspect more likely most go for Rishi.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,820
    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    Practically every time Leon comes onto the board the tone deteriorates and it he gets abusive within a few exchanges. It's not a one-off it's every bloody night.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,640

    nico679 said:

    @rottenborough what "EU laws" are holding us back?

    The headline is laughable . And Sunak loses points for such drivel . How can EU laws be holding back the UK now , I thought we’d left . The Tories have had years to change any law or is this the case that its a desperate attempt to please the mainly insane Tory membership who still seem to think Brexit never happened .
    That article says that a task force will identify such laws in Rishi’s “first hundred days”.

    I believe this would be the third or perhaps fourth attempt to do so…
    Yes it’s the same re-hash we’ve seen many times before .
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Depends what betray brexit actually is. Does Brexit have to be Boris Johnson **** business Brexit? Nope. Is any movement back to a business Brexit, any overtures to business betraying or destroying Brexit? Not necessarily.

    The answers no, it’s not - cuddling up to business with some brexit tweaks in the margins is not betraying brexit.

    There are many business leaders who voted for Brexit but disappointed with some of the current deal.

    The unarguable bottom line is Boris Brexit deal is not aligned with any sane economic plan - Boris disastrous convention and pepppa pig speeches prove he had nothing to say other than some waffle about levelling up and high skilled high paid jobs.

    Cuddling back up with business with realistic and helpful tweaking of the brexit deal is exactly why Sunak and Penny are in the top two, exactly what we do expect from them, and will get.
    You have to read between the lines.

    What he's really saying is he hopes it's eviscerated now Boris is gone, and he's disappointed the Tory candidates aren't planning to do that.
    He is throwing it out there he will have bonfire of EU rules, you agree kinda undermines oven ready Brexit is baked and done, and we can talk about something else at last.

    But the Tory’s are the party of business, not **** business. Where top business leaders supported and voted leave, but are not happy with parts of the current deal, the Tory’s have to get to being the party of business again. That is why Rishi and others have kicked Boris out isn’t it, to get back to being the party of business..
  • stodge said:

    moonshine said:


    Yup. We should all plan for multiple evenings this winter with no lights, heating, communications or power in general. It’s really no big deal for most people if you’ve thought it through even slightly. It could be potentially quite a serious matter for a number of vulnerable households if the power goes off at a time of very cold weather and they have made no preparations at all.

    We might get unlucky and have a period of very cold but very still weather. But with any luck we’ll have a blowy mild winter. Much of Europe is in a tricky spot for sure but governments have started mentally preparing their populations for it and begun conversations about how they will approach rationing. We’ve had bugger all here, to the extent that this week Shell’s CEO clearly decided it was time to give some leadership on it.

    Certainly was a very mild winter last
    year as I recall. The main problem will be light as we head into November and December. I certainly remember doing my homework by candlelight in early 1974.

    Presumably cutting domestic supplies would be near enough last resort with other sections of the economy told to cut back power usage first. We don't need for example floodlight horse racing or evening football matches if we're being honest.

    We could close down the BBC and ITV
    at 11pm - Sky at 9pm perhaps....
    Talk TV at 2000
    And GB News at 1945, the year it’s viewers wish it still was
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,348
    edited July 2022
    MikeL said:

    One key thing still to come is big hitter endorsements - Major, Hague, Howard, Cameron, May.

    I suspect they'll all wait until the Final as they'll have some influence over members, but not MPs.

    If Truss is in the Final, they will all endorse the other candidate. And that will carry significant weight.

    If it's Rishi v Penny then less clear cut but I suspect more likely most go for Rishi.

    IDS has already endorsed and voted for Truss though, so that is 1 ex party leader for her plus most likely Boris, the incumbent.

    May likely backs Mordaunt who was her Defence Secretary, Hague, Howard and Cameron likely back Rishi.

    Major probably backs Tugendhat but will switch to Rishi if he is eliminated as is likely
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,829
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mordaunt in serious trouble, looks like the Sunday Times is going to lead on her lies about Self ID. Well spotted @Cyclefree.

    That's not really trouble, the Times have been gunning for her from the get go.
    Tory MPs and members read the Sunday Times and they have a leaked memo that shows the the policy changed when Kemi and Liz took over not when Penny was on charge as she has claimed on multiple occasions.

    The Walter Mitty accusations look like they are true to me.
    I don't think Tory MP's need the Times to get their info on this. Penny already seems to have devoted fans and fierce critics amongst the parliamentary party. Members might be different.
    The detail is pretty devastating for her, it's not her specific position on self ID, it's that she's lied multiple times to suggest it was different. MPs will have had "assurances" which are now directly contradicted by hard evidence.
    But the Tories haven't worried about fibbing before. Look at the last one they chose.


    Maybe it's different when it comes to wokery.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,015

    MaxPB said:

    Mordaunt in serious trouble, looks like the Sunday Times is going to lead on her lies about Self ID. Well spotted @Cyclefree.

    That's not really trouble, the Times have been gunning for her from the get go.
    And the Mail and the Express.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    1) We could have done that anyway

    2) There was not much in it and certainly not much in its effect on the impact of covid.
    image
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,948

    Betfair next PM

    2.58 Rishi Sunak 39%
    2.74 Penny Mordaunt 36%
    6.4 Liz Truss 16%
    12.5 Kemi Badenoch 8%
    80 Tom Tugendhat
    310 Dominic Raab

    To make the final two
    1.09 Rishi Sunak 92%
    1.42 Penny Mordaunt 70%
    3.1 Liz Truss 32%
    9.4 Kemi Badenoch 11%
    40 Tom Tugendhat

    Note discrepancy on Kemi: 12 to win but 9 to be in top two.

    The curse of the thread title. Penny's back on top.

    Next PM
    2.56 Penny Mordaunt 39%
    2.72 Rishi Sunak 37%
    6.2 Liz Truss 16%
    14 Kemi Badenoch 7%
    65 Tom Tugendhat
    310 Dominic Raab

    To make the final two
    1.09 Rishi Sunak 92%
    1.55 Penny Mordaunt 65%
    3.2 Liz Truss 31%
    7.4 Kemi Badenoch 14%
    44 Tom Tugendhat
    Rishi is back on top.

    Next PM
    2.6 Rishi Sunak 38%
    2.7 Penny Mordaunt 37%
    6.2 Liz Truss 16%
    13.5 Kemi Badenoch 7%
    65 Tom Tugendhat
    130 Dominic Raab

    To make the final two
    1.09 Rishi Sunak 92%
    1.55 Penny Mordaunt 65%
    3.2 Liz Truss 31%
    7.8 Kemi Badenoch 13%
    42 Tom Tugendhat
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,015
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mordaunt in serious trouble, looks like the Sunday Times is going to lead on her lies about Self ID. Well spotted @Cyclefree.

    That's not really trouble, the Times have been gunning for her from the get go.
    Tory MPs and members read the Sunday Times and they have a leaked memo that shows the the policy changed when Kemi and Liz took over not when Penny was on charge as she has claimed on multiple occasions.

    The Walter Mitty accusations look like they are true to me.
    I've been laying Penny a lot today.

    Feel comfortable with that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505

    nico679 said:

    @rottenborough what "EU laws" are holding us back?

    The headline is laughable . And Sunak loses points for such drivel . How can EU laws be holding back the UK now , I thought we’d left . The Tories have had years to change any law or is this the case that its a desperate attempt to please the mainly insane Tory membership who still seem to think Brexit never happened .
    That article says that a task force will identify such laws in Rishi’s “first hundred days”.

    I believe this would be the third or perhaps fourth attempt to do so…
    It's a silly approach to anything. You decide what you want to build, and use the tools in your box to do so, you don't go around looking for things to bash with your new hammer (OK, some people do that, but they shouldn't). Nobody could have predicted that the need to operate an independent vaccines programme would have resulted in the success that we saw.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,660
    So Boris is being rehabilitated in the right wing world after about a week, it seems. Impressive. It took Maggie about 2 years and Tony is still trying, many years on.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    OllyT said:

    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    Practically every time Leon comes onto the board the tone deteriorates and it he gets abusive within a few exchanges. It's not a one-off it's every bloody night.
    Tbf it is in the evenings (usually) when he's presumably drunk. During the day he's generally politer and can be funny and interesting, if controversial.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,015

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Depends what betray brexit actually is. Does Brexit have to be Boris Johnson **** business Brexit? Nope. Is any movement back to a business Brexit, any overtures to business betraying or destroying Brexit? Not necessarily.

    The answers no, it’s not - cuddling up to business with some brexit tweaks in the margins is not betraying brexit.

    There are many business leaders who voted for Brexit but disappointed with some of the current deal.

    The unarguable bottom line is Boris Brexit deal is not aligned with any sane economic plan - Boris disastrous convention and pepppa pig speeches prove he had nothing to say other than some waffle about levelling up and high skilled high paid jobs.

    Cuddling back up with business with realistic and helpful tweaking of the brexit deal is exactly why Sunak and Penny are in the top two, exactly what we do expect from them, and will get.
    You have to read between the lines.

    What he's really saying is he hopes it's eviscerated now Boris is gone, and he's disappointed the Tory candidates aren't planning to do that.
    He is throwing it out there he will have bonfire of EU rules, you agree kinda undermines oven ready Brexit is baked and done, and we can talk about something else at last.

    But the Tory’s are the party of business, not **** business. Where top business leaders supported and voted leave, but are not happy with parts of the current deal, the Tory’s have to get to being the party of business again. That is why Rishi and others have kicked Boris out isn’t it, to get back to being the party of business..
    Um, no it doesn't.

    It then just becomes a conversation about domestic regulatory reform.

    Just like everything else.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,821

    nico679 said:

    @rottenborough what "EU laws" are holding us back?

    The headline is laughable . And Sunak loses points for such drivel . How can EU laws be holding back the UK now , I thought we’d left . The Tories have had years to change any law or is this the case that its a desperate attempt to please the mainly insane Tory membership who still seem to think Brexit never happened .
    That article says that a task force will identify such laws in Rishi’s “first hundred days”.

    I believe this would be the third or perhaps fourth attempt to do so…
    The hunting of the Snark never gets close to its prey, lest it falls foul of a Boojum.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477
    Ryan Jones: Ex-Wales captain reveals early onset dementia diagnosis

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62194385

    What, if anything, can Rugby do about CTE?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    nico679 said:

    @rottenborough what "EU laws" are holding us back?

    The headline is laughable . And Sunak loses points for such drivel . How can EU laws be holding back the UK now , I thought we’d left . The Tories have had years to change any law or is this the case that its a desperate attempt to please the mainly insane Tory membership who still seem to think Brexit never happened .
    All the candidates have a tricky dance to navigate - appealing to the Tory MPs now, then the membership, and finally the country. I expect their positions and focus to shift as they progress through those constituencies. (Except Truss obvs, who's off-the-scale bonkers.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,015

    Cyclefree said:

    Dear me. I posted the Chris Grey article to stimulate a debate. Instead of which there's been a row and banning. I am sorry.

    Not my call but I hope the mods will be merciful.

    You poked the Brexit hornet's nest.

    Nothing good can come from that.

    We should all know that by now.
    This proving Grey’s key argument essentially correct.
    Um, no. All it proves is that it's still a divisive and tetchy topic.

    Brexit doesn't feature in this debate and that really bothers him because he wants it reversed.

    It's that's simple.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Have any of the candidates mentioned the return to Imperial measurements yet?

    No? JRM will be devastated.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,343

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mordaunt in serious trouble, looks like the Sunday Times is going to lead on her lies about Self ID. Well spotted @Cyclefree.

    That's not really trouble, the Times have been gunning for her from the get go.
    Tory MPs and members read the Sunday Times and they have a leaked memo that shows the the policy changed when Kemi and Liz took over not when Penny was on charge as she has claimed on multiple occasions.

    The Walter Mitty accusations look like they are true to me.
    I've been laying Penny a lot today.

    Feel comfortable with that.
    A bit too much information. Only joking.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,820
    edited July 2022

    OllyT said:

    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    Practically every time Leon comes onto the board the tone deteriorates and it he gets abusive within a few exchanges. It's not a one-off it's every bloody night.
    Tbf it is in the evenings (usually) when he's presumably drunk. During the day he's generally politer and can be funny and interesting, if controversial.
    Possibly, don't spend as much time reading the comments these days, I've given up on politics. Whenever I do read a thread 90% of the time he's ranting away like the pub bore everyone tries to move away from.

    Anyway I shall enjoy the calm before he comes back under another name and we go through the same ridiculous charade that he is not who we all know he is.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    If we're doing Brexit AGAIN, I'm off.

    I want to talk about the Tory leadership and the betting. Not drone on endlessly about it for the thousandth time and summon Scott & Paste.

    The piece is interesting because it’s about the legacy of Brexit on the race (and the subsequent premiership).

    My favourite bit is how - if it’s Rishi v Mordaunt - the hardliners will denounce both as Remainer sell-outs, even though both voted for Brexit (and Mordaunt is a former member of the ERG).
    Yes but it's a lot of waffley bollocks.

    The talk in this contest is of cost of living crisis, growth, tax, Wokery, and a bit on immigration.

    Neither Mordaunt or Rishi are planning to do anything to 'betray' Brexit.
    Depends what betray brexit actually is. Does Brexit have to be Boris Johnson **** business Brexit? Nope. Is any movement back to a business Brexit, any overtures to business betraying or destroying Brexit? Not necessarily.

    The answers no, it’s not - cuddling up to business with some brexit tweaks in the margins is not betraying brexit.

    There are many business leaders who voted for Brexit but disappointed with some of the current deal.

    The unarguable bottom line is Boris Brexit deal is not aligned with any sane economic plan - Boris disastrous convention and pepppa pig speeches prove he had nothing to say other than some waffle about levelling up and high skilled high paid jobs.

    Cuddling back up with business with realistic and helpful tweaking of the brexit deal is exactly why Sunak and Penny are in the top two, exactly what we do expect from them, and will get.
    You have to read between the lines.

    What he's really saying is he hopes it's eviscerated now Boris is gone, and he's disappointed the Tory candidates aren't planning to do that.
    He is throwing it out there he will have bonfire of EU rules, you agree kinda undermines oven ready Brexit is baked and done, and we can talk about something else at last.

    But the Tory’s are the party of business, not **** business. Where top business leaders supported and voted leave, but are not happy with parts of the current deal, the Tory’s have to get to being the party of business again. That is why Rishi and others have kicked Boris out isn’t it, to get back to being the party of business..
    Um, no it doesn't.

    It then just becomes a conversation about domestic regulatory reform.

    Just like everything else.
    Tories have been in power 12 years. How's the red-tape cutting going?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,415
    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total
    chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Yup. We should all plan for multiple evenings this winter with no lights, heating, communications or power in general. It’s really no big deal for most people if you’ve thought it through even slightly. It could be potentially quite a serious matter for a number of vulnerable households if the power goes off at a time of very cold weather and they have made no preparations at all.

    We might get unlucky and have a period of very cold but very still weather. But with any luck we’ll have a blowy mild winter. Much of Europe is in a tricky spot for sure but governments have started mentally preparing their populations for it and begun conversations about how they will approach rationing. We’ve had bugger all here, to the extent that this week Shell’s CEO clearly decided it was time to give some leadership on it.
    Sleeping bag. Power bank. Spirit stove. Cost - less than fifty quid all in. Add in a usb heated jacket, a wind up radio/torch, usb solar panel maybe just in case for the de luxe package. Should see almost everyone through a winter of occasional blackouts and no heating.

    I suspect the reason this advice is not being offered is the government knows it will never happen - we'll fold like a cheap suitcase and let Russia have Ukraine if rolling blackouts become the norm.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,930
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    I suspect you resisted doing what I, with my shorter temper, would have been tempted to do.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    carnforth said:

    Ryan Jones: Ex-Wales captain reveals early onset dementia diagnosis

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62194385

    What, if anything, can Rugby do about CTE?

    That is one very sad article.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    Nigelb said:

    The music around Truss from the right has worried me this evening. The right are hell bent on subjecting us to a totally inadequate leader who will lead to the tories to a stinking electoral defeat

    There’s no positive outcome with Truss.

    Some might see that as a positive outcome, tbf.
    Yes, my guilty (not so) secret is I'd take another year or 2 of palpably dreadful choices and behaviour by the Tories, leading to their electoral death at the next GE, over them getting their act together, picking Sunak, and maybe winning again. I consider it the only right and proper outcome after having to tolerate PM Boris Johnson for as long as we have.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    I suspect you resisted doing what I, with my shorter temper, would have been tempted to do.
    I did. What's the point? I nodded and smiled - the more converts the better.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Your analogies would be more helpful if you stuck to things where an actual choice was involved.
    Actually, your analogies would be more helpful if they didn't exist.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    I suspect you resisted doing what I, with my shorter temper, would have been tempted to do.
    I did. What's the point? I nodded and smiled - the more converts the better.
    Quite, but that requires reserves of patience and strength that I lack these days. But well done you.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    What a stupid analogy.

    Evidence me one baby who regretted leaving the amniotic sack.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    The music around Truss from the right has worried me this evening. The right are hell bent on subjecting us to a totally inadequate leader who will lead to the tories to a stinking electoral defeat

    There’s no positive outcome with Truss.

    Some might see that as a positive outcome, tbf.
    Yes, my guilty (not so) secret is I'd take another year or 2 of palpably dreadful choices and behaviour by the Tories, leading to their electoral death at the next GE, over them getting their act together, picking Sunak, and maybe winning again. I consider it the only right and proper outcome after having to tolerate PM Boris Johnson for as long as we have.
    You make a very tempting point. Come on Liz!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    carnforth said:

    Ryan Jones: Ex-Wales captain reveals early onset dementia diagnosis

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62194385

    What, if anything, can Rugby do about CTE?

    As an aspiring pro rugby player I now give thanks every single day for my career ending injury at age 18.
    I'm nowhere near as sharp as I was.
    But good grief!
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,676

    Taz said:

    Looks like @Leon is now banned.

    Temp or perm ?

    @Leon banned?

    Can't be!
    Them's the breaks!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    Why has Leon been banned?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,234
    Coningsby in Lincolnshire now forecast 41C by the Met Office on Tuesday. The forecast is not moderating as the forecast lead time reduces.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    There'll soon be few owning up to it. You'll just see it in certain backwaters. Caution needed though - those still believing will become increasingly truculent and perhaps unpleasant. We see this on here occasionally.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    Tetch Con 1 on here by Monday I reckon.
    Ubiquitous studs up
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    ...
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,634
    Andy_JS said:

    Why has Leon been banned?

    Cos he's a twat.

    Just a guess
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505

    Andy_JS said:

    Why has Leon been banned?

    PB posters held a ballot and he came bottom, thus failing to make it into the next thread.
    I'm surprised, I thought he had pledges of support from SeanT, Eadric, Mysticrose and Heathener.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited July 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    Why has Leon been banned?

    PB posters held a ballot and he came bottom, thus failing to make it into the next thread.
    Does that mean HYUFD, Barty and BigG in the final 3?
    A tough choice for the membership.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    London is going to be 36C and 37C according to the latest Met Office forecast.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcpvj0v07#?date=2022-07-17
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 895
    I do hope @Leon hasn't been perma-banned, I'm too tired and lazy to scroll back the whole evenings threads to see if he said something especially egregious - but it would be a loss to the site if he wasn't adding his own special colour to the discussions.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    edited July 2022

    Coningsby in Lincolnshire now forecast 41C by the Met Office on Tuesday. The forecast is not moderating as the forecast lead time reduces.

    Interesting how the projected heat has moved up the east coast from London to Lincolnshire.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,676
    If clear evidence emerges that Penny has been repeatedly "economical with the actualité" or indeed has been guilty of articulating one or two "terminological inexactitudes" then, in a leadership election brought about by a lack of trust and integrity, HMS Mordaunt would surely sink fast - or soon be scuttled.

    What do tomorrow's papers say?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,234

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    This is a potential challenge for the pollsters if it becomes common. If they weight their polls by Brexit referendum vote then they'll find it hard to find people who will admit to voting Leave, and they'll have to upweight the few they do find. But by doing so they'll make their poll less accurate rather than more accurate.

    Not sure what the pollsters can do if the voters start lying to themselves though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    "Why I took a Ukrainian refugee into my home
    As prime minister, I will step up to lead the West’s response to Putin’s brutal aggression
    PENNY MORDAUNT" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/why-took-ukrainian-refugee-home/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    ohnotnow said:

    I do hope @Leon hasn't been perma-banned, I'm too tired and lazy to scroll back the whole evenings threads to see if he said something especially egregious - but it would be a loss to the site if he wasn't adding his own special colour to the discussions.

    He walks a fine line.
    Was a bit over it this evening. Not career threatening though I reckon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    The EU vaccine procurement was behind us. Not massively in the end, but definitely behind us. Of course, it was possible for EU countries not to be involved with their procurement (see Hungary), but there's no guarantee that we'd have gone our own route.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    There'll soon be few owning up to it. You'll just see it in certain backwaters. Caution needed though - those still believing will become increasingly truculent and perhaps unpleasant. We see this on here occasionally.
    On the contrary, despite naughty words being used toward me by those of your persuasion, this true believer is becoming increasingly excellent, and never less than pleasant. :sunglasses:

    I will however continue to state that with the passage of time, a rallying call of essentially 'this being an independent sovereign democracy - we're not good at it, we can't dooo ittttttt!' rings increasingly silly. Of course we can do it, and to suggest otherwise is absurd.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,719
    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    1) We could have done that anyway

    2) There was not much in it and certainly not much in its effect on the impact of covid.
    image
    That shows that we had an excellent head start, certainly buying important time to get the most important vaccinated, but that the EU had caught up by late summer, and after that it has been much of a muchness.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,791

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    I'm really interested in why Sturgeon went for the UK procurement over the EU. On every other COVID issue we made a point of doing the opposite to England (including the census...)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,791
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    1) We could have done that anyway

    2) There was not much in it and certainly not much in its effect on the impact of covid.
    image
    That shows that we had an excellent head start, certainly buying important time to get the most important vaccinated, but that the EU had caught up by late summer, and after that it has been much of a muchness.
    And, given we got ahead of the EU in the critical winter months, probably saved a significant number of lives. We await comprehensive excess deaths analysis - will take a few years under the "low hanging fruit" hypothesis.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Clicking on it wasn't necessary to establish that, but well done for sacrificing the brain cells so the rest of us didn't have to.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    The EU vaccine procurement was behind us. Not massively in the end, but definitely behind us. Of course, it was possible for EU countries not to be involved with their procurement (see Hungary), but there's no guarantee that we'd have gone our own route.
    Most tellingly, every remainer in the land was warning that, if we didn’t join the EU scheme, we would get fewer vaccines, and later. They didn’t think it was nothing to do with Brexit at the time - they thought it was very closely related. Only when our scheme succeeded did the “nothing to do with Brexit” narrative take hold.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,080
    As @Leon isn't currently around, can I take up his mantle on the weather forecast?

    45°C all round next week take care! 👍
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,930
    edited July 2022

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    There'll soon be few owning up to it. You'll just see it in certain backwaters. Caution needed though - those still believing will become increasingly truculent and perhaps unpleasant. We see this on here occasionally.
    On the contrary, despite naughty words being used toward me by those of your persuasion, this true believer is becoming increasingly excellent, and never less than pleasant. :sunglasses:

    I will however continue to state that with the passage of time, a rallying call of essentially 'this being an independent sovereign democracy - we're not good at it, we can't dooo ittttttt!' rings increasingly silly. Of course we can do it, and to suggest otherwise is absurd.

    More abstract nouns which mean very little in this day and age. I can just imagine people queueing at food banks thanking their lucky stars that their pockets are full of soveregnty!
    You are obviously making out like a bandit over it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited July 2022

    As @Leon isn't currently around, can I take up his mantle on the weather forecast?

    45°C all round next week take care! 👍

    And aliens by Thursday.
    It's gonna be hot.
    Watford will win CL by 2030?
    Nah.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Europe has lots of stored gas - not enough to get them through the winter, but you could cut Russian exports to zero, and they would probably make it to end November before they ran out. They also have some production of their own, and have pipeline imports from Norway and North Africa.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,234
    Andy_JS said:

    London is going to be 36C and 37C according to the latest Met Office forecast.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcpvj0v07#?date=2022-07-17

    London is pretty big. Both Heathrow airport and Kew Gardens, locations within London with observation sites, are forecast to be 39C on the Tuesday by the Met Office.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,930

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Clicking on it wasn't necessary to establish that, but well done for sacrificing the brain cells so the rest of us didn't have to.
    Are you a reincarnated Leon?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    Also I have spoken to people who formerly told me they voted Leave but now claim they voted Remain.
    I intended to mention exactly that in my post, then forgot and sent it. Thank you for picking up exactly that point.
    It's this generation's Iraq War. High levels of support early on; later: it weren't me, guv.
    Spoke to one last night in the pub. Tory member, nice lady. She very definitely told me 5 years ago why she had voted for Brexit. Last night: "I voted Remain - I couldn't see the point in leaving."
    There'll soon be few owning up to it. You'll just see it in certain backwaters. Caution needed though - those still believing will become increasingly truculent and perhaps unpleasant. We see this on here occasionally.
    On the contrary, despite naughty words being used toward me by those of your persuasion, this true believer is becoming increasingly excellent, and never less than pleasant. :sunglasses:

    I will however continue to state that with the passage of time, a rallying call of essentially 'this being an independent sovereign democracy - we're not good at it, we can't dooo ittttttt!' rings increasingly silly. Of course we can do it, and to suggest otherwise is absurd.

    More abstract nouns which mean very little in this day and age. I can just imagine people queueing at food banks thanking their lucky stars that their pockets are full of soveregnty!...
    Perhaps not, but they might thank their lucky stars that the Government ultimately responsible for the economical and monetary policies guiding the country could be sacked come the next election. That's a lot more than Greek queuers at the equivalent have.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,660
    Andy_JS said:

    London is going to be 36C and 37C according to the latest Met Office forecast.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcpvj0v07#?date=2022-07-17

    Automated output, mean not max temperature. Some sites have manual input and showing 39-41C

    Latest GFS pub run takes things down a tad from earlier today. 32C tomorrow, 40C (just) Monday, 41C (just) Tuesday rather than the wide 41s shown earlier, and 42s shown on last night’s models.

    A lot hinges on a late surge of pre frontal hot air from France on Tuesday afternoon. Less marked now than before.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    edited July 2022
    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Most places are ridiculously overheated in the winter in this country. I remember last winter having to constantly walk out of shops, cafes, etc to get some fresh air because the heating was on far too high. And a lot of establishments still had the heating on until the end of April which is just stupid. So there's a lot of energy to be saved in easy ways.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    The EU vaccine procurement was behind us. Not massively in the end, but definitely behind us. Of course, it was possible for EU countries not to be involved with their procurement (see Hungary), but there's no guarantee that we'd have gone our own route.
    Most tellingly, every remainer in the land was warning that, if we didn’t join the EU scheme, we would get fewer vaccines, and later. They didn’t think it was nothing to do with Brexit at the time - they thought it was very closely related. Only when our scheme succeeded did the “nothing to do with Brexit” narrative take hold.
    It hasn't taken hold. If it had, they wouldn't need to write moronically specious 'fact checking' articles about it.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Firstly, nobody in the thread I replied to was making any distinction between approval and procurement, so you're wrong: that link was extremely relevant to what was being discussed.

    Secondly, the exact same was true about procurement. EU member states could go their own way on procurement if they wanted.

    So, counter is still at zero. Sorry.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,719
    Farooq said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Firstly, nobody in the thread I replied to was making any distinction between approval and procurement, so you're wrong: that link was extremely relevant to what was being discussed.

    Secondly, the exact same was true about procurement. EU member states could go their own way on procurement if they wanted.

    So, counter is still at zero. Sorry.
    I'm wrong, because you didn't understand the point you were responding to, so posted something irrelevant? Ok. Sure.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    The EU vaccine procurement was behind us. Not massively in the end, but definitely behind us. Of course, it was possible for EU countries not to be involved with their procurement (see Hungary), but there's no guarantee that we'd have gone our own route.
    Most tellingly, every remainer in the land was warning that, if we didn’t join the EU scheme, we would get fewer vaccines, and later. They didn’t think it was nothing to do with Brexit at the time - they thought it was very closely related. Only when our scheme succeeded did the “nothing to do with Brexit” narrative take hold.
    It hasn't taken hold. If it had, they wouldn't need to write moronically specious 'fact checking' articles about it.
    You're the same guy who thinks that Russia didn't shoot down MH17; I feel you could probably do with a little more fact checking in your life.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    London is going to be 36C and 37C according to the latest Met Office forecast.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcpvj0v07#?date=2022-07-17

    Automated output, mean not max temperature. Some sites have manual input and showing 39-41C

    Latest GFS pub run takes things down a tad from earlier today. 32C tomorrow, 40C (just) Monday, 41C (just) Tuesday rather than the wide 41s shown earlier, and 42s shown on last night’s models.

    A lot hinges on a late surge of pre frontal hot air from France on Tuesday afternoon. Less marked now than before.
    The BBC seems to giving figures about 2 degrees higher than the Met Office, but someone reliable said earlier that the Met Office is a better forecaster.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,080
    dixiedean said:

    As @Leon isn't currently around, can I take up his mantle on the weather forecast?

    45°C all round next week take care! 👍

    And aliens by Thursday.
    It's gonna be hot.
    Watford will win CL by 2030?
    Nah.
    Watford to still be at Championship level 2030 would be good 💚
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,415
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Europe has lots of stored gas - not enough to get them through the winter, but you could cut Russian exports to zero, and they would probably make it to end November before they ran out. They also have some production of their own, and have pipeline imports from Norway and North Africa.
    Apologies for being gloomy, but I think even if we don't see rolling blackouts this winter (what happens after November, when stored gas runs out?) the sheer cost of gas imports from elsewhere will cause the west to buckle and fold.

    Once the first stories of pensioners facing the choice between heating or eating or, god forbid, freezing to death in their homes, how long before the narrative becomes "a conflict in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing."

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,344
    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    Latest implied probablities:

    Sunak 37.6%
    Mordaunt 35.2%
    Truss 16.1%
    Badenoch 7.1%

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    Farooq said:

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    We were of course an independent country throughout our membership of the EU.
    Yes, just not in any meaningful sense of the word 'independent' or indeed 'country'.
    ...waits for a list of all those wonderful things we've been able to do since 31 Jan 2020 that we weren't able to do before...

    Oh.
    Vaccinate our population in a timely fashion.
    Rubbish, vaccination was a country issue. Nothing to do with the EU or brexit.
    The EU vaccine procurement was behind us. Not massively in the end, but definitely behind us. Of course, it was possible for EU countries not to be involved with their procurement (see Hungary), but there's no guarantee that we'd have gone our own route.
    Most tellingly, every remainer in the land was warning that, if we didn’t join the EU scheme, we would get fewer vaccines, and later. They didn’t think it was nothing to do with Brexit at the time - they thought it was very closely related. Only when our scheme succeeded did the “nothing to do with Brexit” narrative take hold.
    It hasn't taken hold. If it had, they wouldn't need to write moronically specious 'fact checking' articles about it.
    You're the same guy who thinks that Russia didn't shoot down MH17; I feel you could probably do with a little more fact checking in your life.
    I'm the guy that realises that 'fact checking' articles ceased to be such, and joined the ranks of 'articles' with their own editorial slant about 15 years ago. I find you posting an article from fullfact as if it proves something quite quaint.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest implied probablities:

    Sunak 37.6%
    Mordaunt 35.2%
    Truss 16.1%
    Badenoch 7.1%

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234

    Truss is the value bet again me thinks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.

    Wasn't she one of the candidates who offered £30b of unfunded tax cuts?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Firstly, nobody in the thread I replied to was making any distinction between approval and procurement, so you're wrong: that link was extremely relevant to what was being discussed.

    Secondly, the exact same was true about procurement. EU member states could go their own way on procurement if they wanted.

    So, counter is still at zero. Sorry.
    I'm wrong, because you didn't understand the point you were responding to, so posted something irrelevant? Ok. Sure.
    Read what I replied to. the very generic subject of "vaccines" is mentioned. Approval is part of the process of making them available. For you to come in and say "it's not that pillar but this one that was meant" requires a level of psychic ability you obviously have but I don't.
    But no matter, since the same applies to both approval and procurement.

    So telling me I'm talking about the wrong thing is incorrect since nothing was specified, and implying that it even makes a difference is also wrong because the same ability for member states to do their own thing applies. What's black and white and wrong all over? You.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    edited July 2022

    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.

    Back to basics. Really? Well I suppose it's about time for a 90s revival. These are not policies, these are platitudes. Facile ones at that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,344

    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.

    Wasn't she one of the candidates who offered £30b of unfunded tax cuts?
    No.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-tory-leadership-contest-tax-bidding-war-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b1011839.html

    Conservative leadership contender Kemi Badenoch refused to enter a “tax bidding war” with her competitors and said she will level with the public over the measures needed to stabilise the economy.

    At the launch of her campaign in Westminster, the former equalities minister said some politicians have been claiming that “you can have your cake and eat it” with tax cuts.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477
    Farooq said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    ...

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    By the way, I am British and I am entitled to post endless flatulent nonsense all about Britain on a British politics website

    Why?

    Because

    "I hope to retire in various places, including the UK"

    That's it. You, Britain, are number 8 on my list of "possible places to retire to", so here is my lecture on your disgusting politics, you awful people, just in case my first 7 retirement plans go wrong

    You appear to be nursing a lot of hatred.
    Seek help.
    This is easily solved. You are in America and have no intention of returning to Britain

    Go onto the American version of PB.com. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA

    Let us argue ourselves in our awful little country, which you loathe - and which you left with much relief - about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, or indeed anything else that concerns us; your opinion does not advance things

    I genuinely don't understand this level of bad manners. I'm not joking. No fucking way would I intrude onto an American website and start lecturing them about their disgraceful independent American-ness and their vile hateful politics blah blah. I may THINK that, but I would never do it. And it rather exposes someone that thinks this is socially tolerable
    You seem to loathe just as many Brits yourself, especially the young.
    Indeed as @Gardenwalker is in much closer alignment to the majority of Britons who think Brexit a historic mistake, it is very likely that @Leon hates the majority of his country folk.
    If you say so, but at the same time, the notion of Bregret becomes a sillier and more risible one as time marches on. We became an independent country when we left the EU. We joined many others in that regard, many smaller and with less advantages than we have in 'making it', and managing to do so with a lot less whining. So what is the actual problem? Let's get the eff on with it and stop whining for the tit when we're 8 years old.
    Bregret is not just real, it's also majority and growing.
    And it's not just boomers dying off having "gifted" this to younger generations. It's more profound than that. It's people who voted for it actually saying no, this wasn't a good idea.

    Do with that what you will, but there it is.
    There are a lot of babies who regret leaving the amniotic sack. Most of them (not all, I grant you) get over it with the passing of time. It'll be the same in this instance.
    Dickhead

    Nothing more to say, except possibly Twat. You know it was a fucking disaster, and no amount of whistling in the dark is going to make it or you look good
    As a matter of fact, the score of one enormously significant Brexit benefit (vaccines) is one more than I'd have thought we'd chalk up by this time. Brexit is going outside. In and of itself, there is no economical benefit - as indeed there was no benefit when we joined. It's the choices you make afterwards, when you can make them, and when you need to make them, that count.

    I am not going to lie, and say that I am thrilled at every part of the Brexit deal. I would have liked to see some of the frictions and encumbrances dealt with better both by our Government and the EU and its members, but over all I count us inredibly lucky that it happened.
    You might want to reset your counter to 0, because vaccines were not a benefit of Brexit.
    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
    That article is irrelevant; the argument is that Brexit allowed for more efficient procurement, not approvals.
    Firstly, nobody in the thread I replied to was making any distinction between approval and procurement, so you're wrong: that link was extremely relevant to what was being discussed.

    Secondly, the exact same was true about procurement. EU member states could go their own way on procurement if they wanted.

    So, counter is still at zero. Sorry.
    The (remain-voting) lady who did our vaccine procurement was interviewed long-form in English in, I think, La Republica. She said that we could have done everything we did within the EU, but she wondered whether we would have done.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230

    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.

    Wasn't she one of the candidates who offered £30b of unfunded tax cuts?
    No.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-tory-leadership-contest-tax-bidding-war-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b1011839.html

    Conservative leadership contender Kemi Badenoch refused to enter a “tax bidding war” with her competitors and said she will level with the public over the measures needed to stabilise the economy.

    At the launch of her campaign in Westminster, the former equalities minister said some politicians have been claiming that “you can have your cake and eat it” with tax cuts.
    She's auditioning to be Rishi's Chancellor isn't she?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,080
    Definitely 45°C minimum on Monday. And a CON leadership debate on TV. Could definitely warm up on here!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Europe has lots of stored gas - not enough to get them through the winter, but you could cut Russian exports to zero, and they would probably make it to end November before they ran out. They also have some production of their own, and have pipeline imports from Norway and North Africa.
    Apologies for being gloomy, but I think even if we don't see rolling blackouts this winter (what happens after November, when stored gas runs out?) the sheer cost of gas imports from elsewhere will cause the west to buckle and fold.

    Once the first stories of pensioners facing the choice between heating or eating or, god forbid, freezing to death in their homes, how long before the narrative becomes "a conflict in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing."

    Before it happens hopefully. There is no way that British lives (especially civilians) should be sacrificed for some square miles of Donbass. No way no how.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505

    Badenoch in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/conservatives-must-return-first-principles-ensure-get-basics/

    We Conservatives need to get back to first principles. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. Government should do less, better. Property ownership should be spread as widely as possible. Nations need borders. The family is the first, and best, source of welfare.

    She's right. I am not sure her intention is to do anything except stop Penny though. If she got through to the final two and then 'decided to step aside because Rishi is clearly the more experienced candidate', there would be hell to pay.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,415

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Give me some comfort that the Uk is not going to have to ration power this winter? I’m looking at Russian gas cuts in Europe and the Norwegians likely to increase supply to Europe to the detriment of the UK. And it has me worried.

    Not a bad time to buy power banks, solar panels, usb heated clothing. Camping gas or spirit stove, etc.
    I’ve already done what I can. But there’s several million vulnerable households that rely on power to operate their boiler (no continuous power supply installed to the brains and / or fuel injection pump). And to cook and boil water. And to use their landlines. And quite a few that live in areas where private water companies haven’t bothered invested in backup generators at the pumping stations. How sure are we the cell phone network would be resilient to this? Because it wasn’t over a very wide area of Kent during the storm induced extended cuts earlier this year.

    As a country we are far more reliant on electricity than we were in the 70s - 80s, when most of us last experienced regular power outages. I’ll bet loads of households now don’t have any candles or even matches (fewer smokers), no way of accessing info or sending messages without mains power (mobile coverage sketchy, landline phones now fancy mains digital handsets), no way of heating or cooking.

    Are we seeing a similar episode of complacent neglect among government in preparing for a very foreseeable crisis, as per Jan - Mar 2020?

    Sure we’re not going to see extended cuts lasting for days. But it’s easy to imagine repeated blackouts that end up costing lives due to lack of planning by households and government.

    Edit:

    I forgot petrol stations. The pumps don’t work without power of course. To add another inconvenience, if power gets rationed or the grid fails to match supply with demand.
    I completely agree.

    What I'm preparing for is rolling blackouts, the type where you're without power for a few hours or at worst a day, and what you need is to be able to charge your laptop and your phone, and maybe heat up a can of soup or boil a cup of tea. Plus a USB bank powered jacket so I won't get cold without the heating on.

    I suspect that since natural gas is only about 44% of the uk grid, that's what we'd end up with in a worst case scenario (bearing in mind we also produce our own gas). Rolling outages of a few hours every day across pockets of the UK, to reduce demand on the grid.

    But that's 24 hours or so max. If the situation somehow becomes dramatically worse than that, then it is as you describe above. No power to petrol pumps, people without the ability to cook for days, most people unable to remain connected to news due to reliance on the internet, etc. Society would break down fast.

    The good news is I think because of our limited reliance on natural gas and the fact we are able to produce it, albeit not enough, the worst we are looking at is rolling blackouts, rather than total chaos.

    Europe however - things could get ugly fast. And unfortunately that is how Putin ends up winning in Ukraine.
    Europe has lots of stored gas - not enough to get them through the winter, but you could cut Russian exports to zero, and they would probably make it to end November before they ran out. They also have some production of their own, and have pipeline imports from Norway and North Africa.
    Apologies for being gloomy, but I think even if we don't see rolling blackouts this winter (what happens after November, when stored gas runs out?) the sheer cost of gas imports from elsewhere will cause the west to buckle and fold.

    Once the first stories of pensioners facing the choice between heating or eating or, god forbid, freezing to death in their homes, how long before the narrative becomes "a conflict in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing."

    Before it happens hopefully. There is no way that British lives (especially civilians) should be sacrificed for some square miles of Donbass. No way no how.
    I'd personally be happy to put on an extra layer and maybe do without power for a few hours a day if it means repulsing Putin's fascist war machine.

    Whether or not the democracies of Europe are made of such stern stuff we shall soon see.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,050

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest implied probablities:

    Sunak 37.6%
    Mordaunt 35.2%
    Truss 16.1%
    Badenoch 7.1%

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234

    Truss is the value bet again me thinks.
    Agreed. But she does need to stabilise her debating position in the two upcoming ones. If they go OK she shoukd get a good surge of support in the next two rounds. If not, the ERG might think again...
This discussion has been closed.