Tamworth – the next by-election? – politicalbetting.com
So far at least Mr. Pincher (which seems an unfortunate name given the circumstances) has not resigned as an MP and we await the inquiry into what actually happened that caused this whole affair to explode yesterday.
I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.
There are two aspects which should help Pincher. This doesn't seem likely to lead to a criminal conviction. The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.
I would prefer that we had a stronger recall mechanism so that the voters of Tamworth had a means to make their views known without waiting for a general election.
I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.
The curse of the new thread! Posted this at the end of the last one but I thought I'd repost it!
ydoethur said: » show previous quotes Labour have held it before, not that long ago.
And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).
But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.
If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.\
My comment was: Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
Nevertheless, that is problematical. Edit} Asssuming that there was indeed a substantial offence, to do as you outline would, I think, be perceived as letting Mr Pincher off lightly after the summary treatment of Mr Parish, which latter is now irreversible. (Even if it is impossible to give any precise comparative valuations in the calculus of moral opprobrium.)
The perceived implication is that it depends how much dirt one knows about on one's superiors. And/or how many chums one has in the Parliamentary Party.
By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.
Labour have held it before, not that long ago.
And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).
But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.
If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.
Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!
They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.
I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.
But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
Oh sweet summer child. Politicians are not humans, they are pawns in Operation Save Big Dog's chess game. If Boris wants to keep Pincher, the compassionate line you advocate will be taken, but if CCHQ's Australian gurus, angry backbenchers or Carrie make it clear Pincher must go, we will have a new betting opportunity.
Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.
I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.
By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.
Labour have held it before, not that long ago.
And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).
But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.
If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.
Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!
They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.
I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.
But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.
You know the area much better than I, so I expect you are right.
There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.
Why would that help?
Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?
If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.
Covid is a funny old bug. Day three of testing positive and each day I have developed new symptoms, presumably as it works it's way through my system. The only persistent symptom I have had is the headache.
By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.
Labour have held it before, not that long ago.
And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).
But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.
If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.
Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!
They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.
I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.
But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.
You know the area much better than I, so I expect you are right.
Just because I know it well doesn't make me right! If the last few months have shown anything it's that we can't rely on old style understandings of politics.
There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.
Why would that help?
Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?
If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.
Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?
I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.
In the event of a byelection party positioning would be difficult for them and fun for us.
Obvs the Tories must win it: do the maths; Midlands; Peel. (But list too long to adumbrate renders them unelectable) Obvs Labour must win it: they held it till 2010 and are the only challenger, (But boundary changes and Labour not v good at byelections ATM) Obvs LD must win it: they come from third to win in NS, and T and H. That's what they are good at. (But vote share closer to zero than 11%)
On the face of it all of them will win it, and all of them will lose it. What larks. And perhaps betting opportunities.
Expect a good deal of expectation management "LDs losing here" etc.
if CCHQ's Australian gurus, angry backbenchers or Carrie make it clear Pincher must go, we will have a new betting opportunity.
Interesting quote in the Polhome article upthread.
He apparently asked Tory MPs who they wanted to appear in their constituency to bolster their vote during an election campaign, and their answer was still BoZo.
Really?
The man who was booed at the jubilee? They want him standing next to them in a campign? Maybe while they hide in a fridge...
Meanwhile it's also unsurprising that Pincher got an easy ride from Boris Johnson. Anyone who thinks it's fine to grope and seduce women or get an F.O. staffer to give them a blowjob at the office is unlikely to understand what the words 'moral compass' even mean.
I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.
In the event of a byelection party positioning would be difficult for them and fun for us.
Obvs the Tories must win it: do the maths; Midlands; Peel. (But list too long to adumbrate renders them unelectable) Obvs Labour must win it: they held it till 2010 and are the only challenger, (But boundary changes and Labour not v good at byelections ATM) Obvs LD must win it: they come from third to win in NS, and T and H. That's what they are good at. (But vote share closer to zero than 11%)
On the face of it all of them will win it, and all of them will lose it. What larks. And perhaps betting opportunities.
One advantage of Tamworth over Oswestry for any party in a by-election is it has excellent transport links. You can be pretty much anywhere in England from Tamworth in four hours. It's at the junction (near enough) of the M42 and M6Toll, and it's where the cross country line crosses the WCML in the biggest interchange between Rugby and Stafford.
Easy to get activists there. And once they're there, it's a helpfully compact seat.
Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team
😮
It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.
There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.
Why would that help?
Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?
If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.
Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?
My feeling is that if it had been in from of the same people, but on a train, that it would have been less damaging than it was in Parliament. The not owning up to it straight away, leading to speculation about the identity of tractor porn guy was also damaging - Pincher at least didn't make that mistake.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team
😮
It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.
Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.
I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.
It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.
I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.
I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?
There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.
Why would that help?
Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?
If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.
Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?
My feeling is that if it had been in from of the same people, but on a train, that it would have been less damaging than it was in Parliament. The not opening up to it straight away, leading to speculation about the identity of tractor porn guy was also damaging - Pincher at least didn't make that mistake.
Point 1: interesting, but not valid, surely. A fully public site has its own sensitivities - children could have been present, for instance - compared to a work site.
Point 2: That is true. But that is from the purely selfish point of view of your average Tory MP, already under suspicion of having a non-trivial chance of being a sex pest.
Also: if there were earlier events, then where were they alleged to have happened? I haven't been following the details, though.
Meanwhile it's also unsurprising that Pincher got an easy ride from Boris Johnson. Anyone who thinks it's fine to grope and seduce women or get an F.O. staffer to give them a blowjob at the office is unlikely to understand what the words 'moral compass' even mean.
Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team
😮
It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.
Agreed
Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile
Not sure, but marginally think Aussie by 7 today. The squad and Jones seem to be in an odd place with regard to who is in charge, pace the recent stuff about intensity in training. I know we have had the wood on Australia for a while now, but we’ve been shit since 2019 in the games that matter.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
I suspect there is more to it than that.
Yes. I was actually of @DavidL view, but it does now appear that there is more of a history to this stuff.
PS @DavidL I find that I struggle to find any difference between our views on just about anything, yet we have supported different parties most of the time. I wonder why?. My only thought is, is it the underlying philosophy of the parties we support rather than the desired end result.
Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.
I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.
Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.
I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.
I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?
I think the suggestion being made is that this person has been treated compassionately on prior occasions and failed to reform their behaviour. That would indicate a need for more robust action now. However, like you, I have not gone into all the sordid detail on this.
If your are over 20 stone you get a double vote under the Fat Person's Voting Act, and can vote from the sofa while eating double portions of fish and chips which explains the voting trend in Tamworth in recent decades.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
FWIW, I get the impression from the reporting that he’s quite possibly a serial offender. A proper investigation rather that quietly brushing it under the carpet seems essential. I take your point about compassion, but that surely should not extend to ignoring possible criminal offences of this nature ?
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
A funny old place, Tamworth. I know it well. Lots of history and beautiful castle grounds. An old, well kept town centre, good leisure facilities and the large Ventura retail park. A similar size to Lichfield, but much more working class. An extraordinarily high proportion of obese people, with the high street crawling with mobility scooters. No Lib Dem tradition at all, but I'd have thought that Labour might stand a chance of taking it back.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.
I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.
I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?
Yes. He's a man. So obviously he doesn't deserve compassion. How can you even ask, you sexist gammon(?)
Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992
And?
Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?
Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.
I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
They used to say that in many parts of the Red Wall round me.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too
By "colourful", you mean he's a bit of a twat?
I want entertainers to be colourful. I prefer MPs to be competent, honest and decent.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too
Like I say, he’s a puzzle. If he hadn’t made it to Westminster, he would have been the town character collecting trolleys in the car park.
Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992
And?
Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?
Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?
I suppose one should make an effort to stay shocked.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
That's the point. Voters really are the last resort. Not parties, not candidate selectors. In democracy 'voters' is the answer to the question of who guards the guards.
"After the uprising of the 17th of June The Secretary of the Writers' Union Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee Stating that the people Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could only win it back By increased work quotas. Would it not in that case be simpler for the government To dissolve the people And elect another?"
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
A little less independent thought from Fabricant would be welcome imo.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
Didn't you stand to me an MP once?
I did indeed. Learned a lot. It’s a weird experience. Great fun, but you do meet some interesting people.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
To think that 'omov' democracy has, or should have, outcomes that that are narrowly pre-described by PBers is a failure of reason.
That PBers are a self selected group who are automatically going to think that voters are a bit dim (they are) is more or less what Kant would call an a priori synthetic truth but it doesn't change what democracy is for or which group of people (all voters) are ultimately accountable.
All alternatives, without exception, build in authoritarianism of some sort.
Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992
And?
Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?
Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?
I suppose one should make an effort to stay shocked.
Genuinely important. High standards cannot always be maintained in politics as in life, but it doesn't mean we should just ignore them completely.
Politics might be inevivitably a bit grubby, as the saying goes, but it is not required that you cover yourself in shit.
Did Putin really respond to a comment about him not starting a war if he was a woman by pointing to Thatcher and the Falklands? I suppose he would see someone responding to an invasion as 'starting' it, come to think of it.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
It used to be said that in North West Durham a donkey with a red rosette would get elected. However, sticking one on Laura Pidcock was just a step too far.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
STV, or an open-list PR system, gives the power to the voter to vote on a party basis and between candidates for each party. It would make it a lot harder for MPs like Pincher to hang on as they would be competing for votes against other Conservatives, not just candidates from other parties.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
Didn't you stand to me an MP once?
I did indeed. Learned a lot. It’s a weird experience. Great fun, but you do meet some interesting people.
I could have gone down that road. Even had a couple of Tory MPs implore me to apply for the list.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
How was Kennedy treated that he should not have been? I can't see that a drunk in public office is anything other than fair game. It's fine to be as compassionate as fuck once they have stood down to sort themselves out.
I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
No.
He's a Tory so it's an existential threat to the continued existence of democratic civilisation . Or at least that's what Angela Rayner says. Ish.
No problem with an investigation, but if there is sanctimonious crapulating from places where a similar suspension has not been applied, then fingers should be pointed.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
STV, or an open-list PR system, gives the power to the voter to vote on a party basis and between candidates for each party. It would make it a lot harder for MPs like Pincher to hang on as they would be competing for votes against other Conservatives, not just candidates from other parties.
Pincher's, or the Tory, vote has gone up steadily at the last few elections in Tamworth. Is that the 'Midlands thing' or is there a personal element?
On the Guardian's point about obesity is there a correlation between levels of obesity in the population and the Conservative vote? I don't see a lot of obese people in Witham!
Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team
😮
It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.
Agreed
Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile
Not sure, but marginally think Aussie by 7 today. The squad and Jones seem to be in an odd place with regard to who is in charge, pace the recent stuff about intensity in training. I know we have had the wood on Australia for a while now, but we’ve been shit since 2019 in the games that matter.
It’s a quasi-friendly so we’ll probably squeeze past Australia under the tedious, odious Jones.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
I give you David Tredinnick who only stood down in 2019 and who held his seat from 1987 and in the last 20 years kept increasing his majority (so the period you talk of). Yet he was as mad as a box of frogs and in fairness that is libeling the box of frogs.
If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?
Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
Only voters can sort these things.
But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.
It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.
A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
There isn't a solution because there isn't a problem. If your problem is about how voters vote in an 'omov' free society, that's not a problem, it's an opinion.
You can't resolve problems in democracy by anything other than the instruments of democracy; campaigning, persuading, standing for election, party organisation, voting.
All other solutions are basically imposing opinions in an authoritarian manner.
When it comes to 'safe seats', most people's thinking is backwards. They look at the current maths and declare this seat is 'safe'. All that means is that voters as a whole have acted a certain way. They are entitled to. It is in their power. Unless it binds their future decisions in a way which forces them they remain free next time to do as they will.
Tamworth is a safe Tory seat. But it was Labour only recently.
If we’re going to do the “but the mens” argument, it’s worth pointing out that he is accused of groping three men in two incidents while pissed out of his skull. To say “the matter is closed” because he resigned his sinecure and apologised for being drunk is disrespectful of the potential victims.
The principle has been set with Parish et Al: withdraw the whip, conduct the investigation, return the whip or crack it depending on the outcome. Trying to brush it aside because this guy is one of your pals is boorish nepotism. Tractor Man has a right to be cross.
Comments
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/02/conservatives-set-lose-26-their-64-lib-dem-battleg https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1543133517957275649/photo/1
I would prefer that we had a stronger recall mechanism so that the voters of Tamworth had a means to make their views known without waiting for a general election.
Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?
My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.
ydoethur said:
» show previous quotes
Labour have held it before, not that long ago.
And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).
But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.
If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.\
My comment was:
Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fidler
What were his parents thinking?
The perceived implication is that it depends how much dirt one knows about on one's superiors. And/or how many chums one has in the Parliamentary Party.
I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.
But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.
https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/local/drunken-bottom-south-oxfordshire
I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pett_Bottom
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952
It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.
Obvs the Tories must win it: do the maths; Midlands; Peel. (But list too long to adumbrate renders them unelectable)
Obvs Labour must win it: they held it till 2010 and are the only challenger, (But boundary changes and Labour not v good at byelections ATM)
Obvs LD must win it: they come from third to win in NS, and T and H. That's what they are good at. (But vote share closer to zero than 11%)
On the face of it all of them will win it, and all of them will lose it.
What larks. And perhaps betting opportunities.
Expect a good deal of expectation management "LDs losing here" etc.
😮
He apparently asked Tory MPs who they wanted to appear in their constituency to bolster their vote during an election campaign, and their answer was still BoZo.
Really?
The man who was booed at the jubilee? They want him standing next to them in a campign? Maybe while they hide in a fridge...
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1542919039420358656
https://twitter.com/notavocation/status/1542929931742617600
Those words 'my current wife' are chilling.
How on earth the tory party elected this wicked clown is amazing. That they didn't remove him from office last month even more so.
Easy to get activists there. And once they're there, it's a helpfully compact seat.
Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/lord-judge-signs-off-with-attack-on-ambush-advocate/5037941.article
The entire judgement is a gem.
I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/18/obesity-tamworth-fat-capital-britain
Point 2: That is true. But that is from the purely selfish point of view of your average Tory MP, already under suspicion of having a non-trivial chance of being a sex pest.
Also: if there were earlier events, then where were they alleged to have happened? I haven't been following the details, though.
It isn't amazing because far too many of them are just as bad as he is, and it's depressing...for exactly the same reason, actually.
PS @DavidL I find that I struggle to find any difference between our views on just about anything, yet we have supported different parties most of the time. I wonder why?. My only thought is, is it the underlying philosophy of the parties we support rather than the desired end result.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992
How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.
(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)
A proper investigation rather that quietly brushing it under the carpet seems essential. I take your point about compassion, but that surely should not extend to ignoring possible criminal offences of this nature ?
Me for @thetimes
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/get-the-jaegers-in-olaf-bozza-the-bantmeister-is-on-tour-with-the-ladz-r096w6p5l https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1543145746924437504/photo/1
It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.
As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.
Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?
Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff71c60d03e7f57ea7af5
Henriques will dine out on it for his entire retirement.
I agree with you no longer the case
Richard Taruskin, Vigorously Polemical Musicologist, Dies at 77
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/01/arts/music/richard-taruskin-dead.html
I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.
"After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could only win it back
By increased work quotas. Would it not in that case be simpler
for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?"
Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.
Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.
That PBers are a self selected group who are automatically going to think that voters are a bit dim (they are) is more or less what Kant would call an a priori synthetic truth but it doesn't change what democracy is for or which group of people (all voters) are ultimately accountable.
All alternatives, without exception, build in authoritarianism of some sort.
Politics might be inevivitably a bit grubby, as the saying goes, but it is not required that you cover yourself in shit.
Glad I didn't.
He's a Tory so it's an existential threat to the continued existence of democratic civilisation
No problem with an investigation, but if there is sanctimonious crapulating from places where a similar suspension has not been applied, then fingers should be pointed.
On the Guardian's point about obesity is there a correlation between levels of obesity in the population and the Conservative vote? I don't see a lot of obese people in Witham!
Enjoy!
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/11/06/the-pb-cynics-dictionary-especially-complied-for-the-times/
You can't resolve problems in democracy by anything other than the instruments of democracy; campaigning, persuading, standing for election, party organisation, voting.
All other solutions are basically imposing opinions in an authoritarian manner.
When it comes to 'safe seats', most people's thinking is backwards. They look at the current maths and declare this seat is 'safe'. All that means is that voters as a whole have acted a certain way. They are entitled to. It is in their power. Unless it binds their future decisions in a way which forces them they remain free next time to do as they will.
Tamworth is a safe Tory seat. But it was Labour only recently.
The principle has been set with Parish et Al: withdraw the whip, conduct the investigation, return the whip or crack it depending on the outcome. Trying to brush it aside because this guy is one of your pals is boorish nepotism. Tractor Man has a right to be cross.