Tamworth – the next by-election? – politicalbetting.com

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Tamworth – the next by-election? – politicalbetting.com

So far at least Mr. Pincher (which seems an unfortunate name given the circumstances) has not resigned as an MP and we await the inquiry into what actually happened that caused this whole affair to explode yesterday.

Read the full story here

Carnyx

Inconsistent and unfair treatment of offenders is always a good way to make a scandal worse.

Scott_xP

New YouGov MRP: Tories set to lose 26 of their 64 their Con-Lib Dem battleground seats, including Dominic Raab and Jeremy Hunt's constituencies

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/02/conservatives-set-lose-26-their-64-lib-dem-battleg https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1543133517957275649/photo/1

Jonathan

With Chris Pincher MP on the way out, how long before the spotlight falls on Sir Richard Fiddler MP and Roger Rogerson QC MP?

SouthamObserver

I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.

Scott_xP

NEW: Tory rebels step up plans to get rid of Boris Johnson in wake of Pincher allegations https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/johnson-returns-to-an-angry-rebellious-tory-party

LostPassword

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. This doesn't seem likely to lead to a criminal conviction. The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

I would prefer that we had a stronger recall mechanism so that the voters of Tamworth had a means to make their views known without waiting for a general election.

Jonathan

SouthamObserver said:

I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.

🔸?.

Scott_xP

LostPassword said:

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

Why would that help?

Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?

Leon

Oh dear, Ireland

DavidL

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

Jonathan

SouthamObserver said:

I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.

Ok, why is that?

OldKingCole

The curse of the new thread! Posted this at the end of the last one but I thought I'd repost it!

ydoethur said:
» show previous quotes
Labour have held it before, not that long ago.

And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).

But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.

If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.\

My comment was:
Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!

ydoethur

Jonathan said:

With Chris Pincher MP on the way out, how long before the spotlight falls on Sir Richard Fiddler MP and Roger Rogerson QC MP?

I find there is actually an Aussie radio called Richard Fidler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fidler

What were his parents thinking?

Carnyx

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

Nevertheless, that is problematical. Edit} Asssuming that there was indeed a substantial offence, to do as you outline would, I think, be perceived as letting Mr Pincher off lightly after the summary treatment of Mr Parish, which latter is now irreversible. (Even if it is impossible to give any precise comparative valuations in the calculus of moral opprobrium.)

The perceived implication is that it depends how much dirt one knows about on one's superiors. And/or how many chums one has in the Parliamentary Party.

ydoethur

And my reply to his Venerable Cheerful Majesty was:

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

theakes said:

By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.

Labour have held it before, not that long ago.

And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).

But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.

If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.

Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the
recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!

They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.

I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.

But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.

DecrepiterJohnL

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

Oh sweet summer child. Politicians are not humans, they are pawns in Operation Save Big Dog's chess game. If Boris wants to keep Pincher, the compassionate line you advocate will be taken, but if CCHQ's Australian gurus, angry backbenchers or Carrie make it clear Pincher must go, we will have a new betting opportunity.

BlancheLivermore

Scott_xP said:

Dura_Ace said:

How is there going to be a by-election? Surely that would require "Cock" Pincher to resign and he doesn't seem like the resigning type.

BoZo can put him in the Lords instead

Baron Pincher of Drunken Bottom (South Oxfordshire)

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/local/drunken-bottom-south-oxfordshire

DavidL

Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.

I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.

OldKingCole

ydoethur said:

And my reply to his Venerable Cheerful Majesty was:

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

theakes said:

By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.

Labour have held it before, not that long ago.

And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).

But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.

If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.

Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the
recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!

They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.

I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.

But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.

You know the area much better than I, so I expect you are right.

ydoethur

BlancheLivermore said:

Scott_xP said:

Dura_Ace said:

How is there going to be a by-election? Surely that would require "Cock" Pincher to resign and he doesn't seem like the resigning type.

BoZo can put him in the Lords instead

Baron Pincher of Drunken Bottom (South Oxfordshire)

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/local/drunken-bottom-south-oxfordshire

Well, he's as drunk as a lord, but surely Pett Bottom would be more - apt?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pett_Bottom

LostPassword

Scott_xP said:

LostPassword said:

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

Why would that help?

Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?

If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.

jonny83

Covid is a funny old bug. Day three of testing positive and each day I have developed new symptoms, presumably as it works it's way through my system. The only persistent symptom I have had is the headache.

ydoethur

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

And my reply to his Venerable Cheerful Majesty was:

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

theakes said:

By Election at Tamworth? Cons will hold, also do not think there will be a Lib Dem quiet campaign for Labour.

Labour have held it before, not that long ago.

And Pincher has been a very bad MP, and is not personally popular. Easy to imagine a better candidate might get a boost (if they can find one, but I happen to know one is available).

But the real significance of Tamworth is the electorate it represents. The not affluent but property owning, solid, manufacturing based, perhaps slightly unambitious but very dependable backbone of middle England. The Tories' safe heartland.

If the Tories were to lose it, they would have lost in the Red Wall (Wakefield) the commuter belt (Chesham) the rural blue wall (Tiverton and Oswestry) and the skilled working areas (Tamworth). At this point, you would begin to wonder what seats they *could* rely on.

Without wishing to go all Epping, Chris Pincher has increased his vote-share at all of the
recent elections I don't know Tamworth; I've only ever been there once, but it did seem the sort of seat that the modern Conservatives ought to hold!

They've increased their vote share in I think every seat in Staffordshire in that time. That isn't unique to Tamworth.

I entirely agree they should hold it, if only because there's no real tradition of Liberal Democrat strength (unlike Lichfield) and Labour are more or less moribund. I was thinking more about the implications if they were to lose it.

But then, they should have held North Shropshire and didn't, and there wasn't a strong Lib Dem tradition there either.

You know the area much better than I, so I expect you are right.

Just because I know it well doesn't make me right! If the last few months have shown anything it's that we can't rely on old style understandings of politics.

Jonathan

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

With Chris Pincher MP on the way out, how long before the spotlight falls on Sir Richard Fiddler MP and Roger Rogerson QC MP?

I find there is actually an Aussie radio called Richard Fidler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fidler

What were his parents thinking?

I knew a Richard Edwards at school (he wore it well, he had no choice) and a friends uncle was Michael Hunt. Again, what were the parents thinking?

DavidL

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Carnyx

LostPassword said:

Scott_xP said:

LostPassword said:

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

Why would that help?

Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?

If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.

Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?

Heathener

So the older men on here think this is all just a bit of drunken bants. Females, including tory MPs beg to differ.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952

It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.

algarkirk

SouthamObserver said:

I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.

In the event of a byelection party positioning would be difficult for them and fun for us.

Obvs the Tories must win it: do the maths; Midlands; Peel. (But list too long to adumbrate renders them unelectable)
Obvs Labour must win it: they held it till 2010 and are the only challenger, (But boundary changes and Labour not v good at byelections ATM)
Obvs LD must win it: they come from third to win in NS, and T and H. That's what they are good at. (But vote share closer to zero than 11%)

On the face of it all of them will win it, and all of them will lose it.
What larks. And perhaps betting opportunities.

Expect a good deal of expectation management "LDs losing here" etc.

turbotubbs

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

Leon

Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team

😮

Leon

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Scott_xP

DecrepiterJohnL said:

if CCHQ's Australian gurus, angry backbenchers or Carrie make it clear Pincher must go, we will have a new betting opportunity.

Interesting quote in the Polhome article upthread.

He apparently asked Tory MPs who they wanted to appear in their constituency to bolster their vote during an election campaign, and their answer was still BoZo.

Really?

The man who was booed at the jubilee? They want him standing next to them in a campign? Maybe while they hide in a fridge...

Heathener

Meanwhile it's also unsurprising that Pincher got an easy ride from Boris Johnson. Anyone who thinks it's fine to grope and seduce women or get an F.O. staffer to give them a blowjob at the office is unlikely to understand what the words 'moral compass' even mean.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1542919039420358656

https://twitter.com/notavocation/status/1542929931742617600

Those words 'my current wife' are chilling.

How on earth the tory party elected this wicked clown is amazing. That they didn't remove him from office last month even more so.

ydoethur

algarkirk said:

SouthamObserver said:

I’ve been saying for a while on here that the Midlands is now the Tory heartland. Outside of the big cities and a few university towns like Leamington and Warwick, Labour remains deeply toxic and will do so for a while yet. That makes Tamworth a guaranteed Tory hold. The interesting bit would be the size of the majority.

In the event of a byelection party positioning would be difficult for them and fun for us.

Obvs the Tories must win it: do the maths; Midlands; Peel. (But list too long to adumbrate renders them unelectable)
Obvs Labour must win it: they held it till 2010 and are the only challenger, (But boundary changes and Labour not v good at byelections ATM)
Obvs LD must win it: they come from third to win in NS, and T and H. That's what they are good at. (But vote share closer to zero than 11%)

On the face of it all of them will win it, and all of them will lose it.
What larks. And perhaps betting opportunities.

One advantage of Tamworth over Oswestry for any party in a by-election is it has excellent transport links. You can be pretty much anywhere in England from Tamworth in four hours. It's at the junction (near enough) of the M42 and M6Toll, and it's where the cross country line crosses the WCML in the biggest interchange between Rugby and Stafford.

Easy to get activists there. And once they're there, it's a helpfully compact seat.

turbotubbs

Leon said:

Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team

😮

It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.

turbotubbs

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Revenge. Kiwis do not take losing well, and three out of five defeats against the Irish has hurt them.

LostPassword

Carnyx said:

LostPassword said:

Scott_xP said:

LostPassword said:

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

Why would that help?

Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?

If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.

Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?

My feeling is that if it had been in from of the same people, but on a train, that it would have been less damaging than it was in Parliament. The not owning up to it straight away, leading to speculation about the identity of tractor porn guy was also damaging - Pincher at least didn't make that mistake.

Jonathan

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

kjh

What about Somerton and Frome? Isn't that the most likely next by election?

Casino_Royale

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

I suspect there is more to it than that.

ydoethur

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Leon

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team

😮

It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.

Agreed

Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile

algarkirk

DavidL said:

Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.

I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.

Amateurs when put against England's finest:


https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/lord-judge-signs-off-with-attack-on-ambush-advocate/5037941.article


The entire judgement is a gem.

DavidL

Heathener said:

So the older men on here think this is all just a bit of drunken bants. Females, including tory MPs beg to differ.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952

It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.

I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.

I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?

BlancheLivermore

Is Tamworth still full of fat folk?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/18/obesity-tamworth-fat-capital-britain

Carnyx

LostPassword said:

Carnyx said:

LostPassword said:

Scott_xP said:

LostPassword said:

There are two aspects which should help Pincher. ... The event didn't happen on the Parliamentary estate.

Why would that help?

Assault is assault, wherever it happens, surely?

If it happened on the Parliamentary estate then there would be a greater chance of him receiving a suspension from the Commons as punishment, triggering the recall petition if the suspension was long enough. It's the factor that did for tractor porn guy.

Was it not rather that that particular part of the Estate was the green benches of the HoC in front of female colleagues?

My feeling is that if it had been in from of the same people, but on a train, that it would have been less damaging than it was in Parliament. The not opening up to it straight away, leading to speculation about the identity of tractor porn guy was also damaging - Pincher at least didn't make that mistake.

Point 1: interesting, but not valid, surely. A fully public site has its own sensitivities - children could have been present, for instance - compared to a work site.

Point 2: That is true. But that is from the purely selfish point of view of your average Tory MP, already under suspicion of having a non-trivial chance of being a sex pest.

Also: if there were earlier events, then where were they alleged to have happened? I haven't been following the details, though.

ydoethur

Heathener said:

Meanwhile it's also unsurprising that Pincher got an easy ride from Boris Johnson. Anyone who thinks it's fine to grope and seduce women or get an F.O. staffer to give them a blowjob at the office is unlikely to understand what the words 'moral compass' even mean.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1542919039420358656

https://twitter.com/notavocation/status/1542929931742617600

Those words 'my current wife' are chilling.

How on earth the tory party elected this wicked clown is amazing. That they didn't remove him from office last month even more so.

Sadly, it isn't amazing, just depressing.

It isn't amazing because far too many of them are just as bad as he is, and it's depressing...for exactly the same reason, actually.

HYUFD

On the Wakefield swing even if there was a by election in Tamworth the Tories would hold it from Labour

HYUFD

Scott_xP said:

New YouGov MRP: Tories set to lose 26 of their 64 their Con-Lib Dem battleground seats, including Dominic Raab and Jeremy Hunt's constituencies

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/02/conservatives-set-lose-26-their-64-lib-dem-battleg https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1543133517957275649/photo/1

Plus Labour set to gain Kensington and Cities of London and Westminster

BlancheLivermore

HYUFD said:

On the Wakefield swing even if there was a by election in Wakefield the Tories would hold it

That's a speedy recovery..

turbotubbs

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team

😮

It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.

Agreed

Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile

Not sure, but marginally think Aussie by 7 today. The squad and Jones seem to be in an odd place with regard to who is in charge, pace the recent stuff about intensity in training. I know we have had the wood on Australia for a while now, but we’ve been shit since 2019 in the games that matter.

kjh

Casino_Royale said:

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

I suspect there is more to it than that.

Yes. I was actually of @DavidL view, but it does now appear that there is more of a history to this stuff.

PS @DavidL I find that I struggle to find any difference between our views on just about anything, yet we have supported different parties most of the time. I wonder why?. My only thought is, is it the underlying philosophy of the parties we support rather than the desired end result.

DavidL

algarkirk said:

DavidL said:

Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.

I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.

Amateurs when put against England's finest:


https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/lord-judge-signs-off-with-attack-on-ambush-advocate/5037941.article


The entire judgement is a gem.

Wow, I'd not heard of that, thanks.

Scott_xP

Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992

Jonathan

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

LostPassword

DavidL said:

Heathener said:

So the older men on here think this is all just a bit of drunken bants. Females, including tory MPs beg to differ.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952

It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.

I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.

I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?

I think the suggestion being made is that this person has been treated compassionately on prior occasions and failed to reform their behaviour. That would indicate a need for more robust action now. However, like you, I have not gone into all the sordid detail on this.

algarkirk

BlancheLivermore said:

Is Tamworth still full of fat folk?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/18/obesity-tamworth-fat-capital-britain

If your are over 20 stone you get a double vote under the Fat Person's Voting Act, and can vote from the sofa while eating double portions of fish and chips which explains the voting trend in Tamworth in recent decades.

Nigelb

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

FWIW, I get the impression from the reporting that he’s quite possibly a serial offender.
A proper investigation rather that quietly brushing it under the carpet seems essential. I take your point about compassion, but that surely should not extend to ignoring possible criminal offences of this nature ?

algarkirk

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

Scott_xP

This is government by ladz, ladz, ladz. And we are the ones who will wake up with the hangover.

Me for @thetimes

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/get-the-jaegers-in-olaf-bozza-the-bantmeister-is-on-tour-with-the-ladz-r096w6p5l https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1543145746924437504/photo/1

FeersumEnjineeya

A funny old place, Tamworth. I know it well. Lots of history and beautiful castle grounds. An old, well kept town centre, good leisure facilities and the large Ventura retail park. A similar size to Lichfield, but much more working class. An extraordinarily high proportion of obese people, with the high street crawling with mobility scooters. No Lib Dem tradition at all, but I'd have thought that Labour might stand a chance of taking it back.

Jonathan

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

Applicant

DavidL said:

Heathener said:

So the older men on here think this is all just a bit of drunken bants. Females, including tory MPs beg to differ.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952

It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.

I completely agree with that letter. The inconsistency with which these episodes are treated is a part of the problem as is the truly remarkable lack of clear rules of conduct (other than common sense and decency, of course). I also agree that this is damaging the government.

I am not suggesting that it gets swept under any carpet but I am suggesting that the offender should be treated compassionately if there are explanations for his behaviour. Is that so awful?

Yes. He's a man. So obviously he doesn't deserve compassion. How can you even ask, you sexist gammon(?)

Stuartinromford

Scott_xP said:

Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992

And?

Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?

Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?

algarkirk

DavidL said:

algarkirk said:

DavidL said:

Talking about flawed human beings the trial I am doing at the moment is before Judge Hughes who had to take a morning off to deal with former SNP MP Natalie McGarry.

I was told (not by him obviously) that her trial took far longer than it should because she was wanting to speak about her views on how women are treated in politics and her views on Scottish independence. I understand from some involved in the trial, and indeed her previous trial, that she was pretty annoying, very much of the we are doing the right thing, who are you to question us, school.

Amateurs when put against England's finest:


https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/lord-judge-signs-off-with-attack-on-ambush-advocate/5037941.article


The entire judgement is a gem.

Wow, I'd not heard of that, thanks.

SFAICS the judgement has vanished from BAILII (I may be wrong) but can be found I think in full here:

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff71c60d03e7f57ea7af5

Henriques will dine out on it for his entire retirement.

Applicant

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

bigjohnowls

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

They used to say that in many parts of the Red Wall round me.

I agree with you no longer the case

Nigelb

I am something of a philistine as I’d never heard of this guy, but I’m now tempted to acquire a copy of his 4000 page Oxford History of Western Music.

Richard Taruskin, Vigorously Polemical Musicologist, Dies at 77
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/01/arts/music/richard-taruskin-dead.html

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too

kinabalu

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too

By "colourful", you mean he's a bit of a twat?

turbotubbs

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too

By "colourful", you mean he's a bit of a twat?

I want entertainers to be colourful. I prefer MPs to be competent, honest and decent.

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Fabricant is one of the most colourful MPs and has a big personal vote in Lichfield too

Like I say, he’s a puzzle. If he hadn’t made it to Westminster, he would have been the town character collecting trolleys in the car park.

kinabalu

Stuartinromford said:

Scott_xP said:

Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992

And?

Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?

Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?

I suppose one should make an effort to stay shocked.

algarkirk

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

That's the point. Voters really are the last resort. Not parties, not candidate selectors. In democracy 'voters' is the answer to the question of who guards the guards.



"After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could only win it back
By increased work quotas. Would it not in that case be simpler
for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?"

kinabalu

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

A little less independent thought from Fabricant would be welcome imo.

Casino_Royale

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

Didn't you stand to me an MP once?

kle4

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.

Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.

Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.

Jonathan

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

Didn't you stand to me an MP once?

I did indeed. Learned a lot. It’s a weird experience. Great fun, but you do meet some interesting people.

algarkirk

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

To think that 'omov' democracy has, or should have, outcomes that that are narrowly pre-described by PBers is a failure of reason.

That PBers are a self selected group who are automatically going to think that voters are a bit dim (they are) is more or less what Kant would call an a priori synthetic truth but it doesn't change what democracy is for or which group of people (all voters) are ultimately accountable.

All alternatives, without exception, build in authoritarianism of some sort.

Sunil_Prasannan

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=because reasons

Leon

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/because-internet/gretchen-mcculloch/9781529112825

turbotubbs

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/because-internet/gretchen-mcculloch/9781529112825

Nothing wrong with language changing and evolving. If it didn’t there would be no point scholars learning medieval language.

kle4

kinabalu said:

Stuartinromford said:

Scott_xP said:

Over the next few hours and days were going to get a lot of deflection from Boris and his supporters. It's important to stay focused on a simple fact. He claimed he didn't know about Pincher. He did know about Pincher. And he appointed him anyway.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1543144352330964992

And?

Neither "Johnson appoints terrible people" nor "Johnson tells fibs" is news, is it?

Or has Dan Hodges only just noticed?

I suppose one should make an effort to stay shocked.

Genuinely important. High standards cannot always be maintained in politics as in life, but it doesn't mean we should just ignore them completely.

Politics might be inevivitably a bit grubby, as the saying goes, but it is not required that you cover yourself in shit.

kle4

Did Putin really respond to a comment about him not starting a war if he was a woman by pointing to Thatcher and the Falklands? I suppose he would see someone responding to an invasion as 'starting' it, come to think of it.

ThomasNashe

kle4 said:

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.

Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.

Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.

It used to be said that in North West Durham a donkey with a red rosette would get elected. However, sticking one on Laura Pidcock was just a step too far.

LostPassword

kle4 said:

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.

Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.

Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.

STV, or an open-list PR system, gives the power to the voter to vote on a party basis and between candidates for each party. It would make it a lot harder for MPs like Pincher to hang on as they would be competing for votes against other Conservatives, not just candidates from other parties.

Casino_Royale

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It seems that the ideal MP candidate is ambitious, but flawed and controllable. Articulate, but incapable of independent thought.

As a result, you end up with some genuinely odd people.

Didn't you stand to me an MP once?

I did indeed. Learned a lot. It’s a weird experience. Great fun, but you do meet some interesting people.

I could have gone down that road. Even had a couple of Tory MPs implore me to apply for the list.

Glad I didn't.

Anabobazina

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

It is deeply annoying. I’ll add it to the list.

IshmaelZ

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

How was Kennedy treated that he should not have been? I can't see that a drunk in public office is anything other than fair game. It's fine to be as compassionate as fuck once they have stood down to sort themselves out.

MattW

DavidL said:

I've really not troubled myself about getting the sordid details of this but the impression from afar is that this is someone who has got drunk and made a bit of a tit of himself. Which is, of course, not a good thing. I also get the impression, based on his apparent history, that he might have a bit of a drink problem too. Which is not a good thing either but perhaps needs a bit of compassion, especially after the way that Kennedy was treated.

My guess is that there will be regrets, a brief suspension, some treatment/therapy and back into the fold once more. Even politicians are human beings, after all.

No.

He's a Tory so it's an existential threat to the continued existence of democratic civilisation . Or at least that's what Angela Rayner says. Ish.

No problem with an investigation, but if there is sanctimonious crapulating from places where a similar suspension has not been applied, then fingers should be pointed.

OldKingCole

LostPassword said:

kle4 said:

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.

Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.

Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.

STV, or an open-list PR system, gives the power to the voter to vote on a party basis and between candidates for each party. It would make it a lot harder for MPs like Pincher to hang on as they would be competing for votes against other Conservatives, not just candidates from other parties.

Pincher's, or the Tory, vote has gone up steadily at the last few elections in Tamworth. Is that the 'Midlands thing' or is there a personal element?

On the Guardian's point about obesity is there a correlation between levels of obesity in the population and the Conservative vote? I don't see a lot of obese people in Witham!

Tres

Minnesota accidentally legalises edibles - https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesota-legalizes-low-dose-pot-edibles-to-the-surprise-of-gop-legislator/

Anabobazina

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

Jeez. I thought the All Blacks had finally produced a poor team

😮

It’s not the greatest NZ side, but at Eden Park, and with the potent ability to sniff out quarter chances and convert into tries, you have to be absolutely on it at all times. The Irish have been too lose in possession and it’s cost them. They are a long way from the Aviva fortress.

Agreed

Thoughts on England? I fear they are fragile

Not sure, but marginally think Aussie by 7 today. The squad and Jones seem to be in an odd place with regard to who is in charge, pace the recent stuff about intensity in training. I know we have had the wood on Australia for a while now, but we’ve been shit since 2019 in the games that matter.

It’s a quasi-friendly so we’ll probably squeeze past Australia under the tedious, odious Jones.

Cyclefree

Heathener said:

So the older men on here think this is all just a bit of drunken bants. Females, including tory MPs beg to differ.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1542829182719229952

It's pretty staggering that someone like DavidL still needs to be educated on an issue like this.

Reposting this. As relevant now, more so, in fact, as it was then.

Enjoy!

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/11/06/the-pb-cynics-dictionary-especially-complied-for-the-times/

kjh

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

I give you David Tredinnick who only stood down in 2019 and who held his seat from 1987 and in the last 20 years kept increasing his majority (so the period you talk of). Yet he was as mad as a box of frogs and in fairness that is libeling the box of frogs.

algarkirk

kle4 said:

Applicant said:

Jonathan said:

algarkirk said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

If there is a by-election, is there a man in the white suit option?

Michael Fabricant in the neighbouring constituency should be in a straitjacket.

Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?

Fabricant is an enigma, a barometer for a broken parliamentary system.

How he became.and remains and MP is a mystery. You would have thought someone along the way, be they a Tory selector or a voter would have said hang on, this is not necessarily the best person to represent us.

(There are others like this, but he stands out as a big Why?)

Only voters can sort these things.

But they don’t. When it comes to a general election, if you pin a rosette to a turd only the colour of the rosette matters. It’s a fundamentally broken system.

It amazes me that people can have seen the changes at general elections over the last decade and still think this way.

A majority of seats are completely safe even with the changes over the last 4 elections.

Regardless, changes (or lack thereof) didn't seem to be the point. More that individual merits are irrelevant and changes will or wont happen pretty much purely due to party label.

Can't really see a solution. Its damn near impossible to assess whether they dova good job and most won't be well known.

There isn't a solution because there isn't a problem. If your problem is about how voters vote in an 'omov' free society, that's not a problem, it's an opinion.

You can't resolve problems in democracy by anything other than the instruments of democracy; campaigning, persuading, standing for election, party organisation, voting.

All other solutions are basically imposing opinions in an authoritarian manner.

When it comes to 'safe seats', most people's thinking is backwards. They look at the current maths and declare this seat is 'safe'. All that means is that voters as a whole have acted a certain way. They are entitled to. It is in their power. Unless it binds their future decisions in a way which forces them they remain free next time to do as they will.

Tamworth is a safe Tory seat. But it was Labour only recently.

OnboardG1

If we’re going to do the “but the mens” argument, it’s worth pointing out that he is accused of groping three men in two incidents while pissed out of his skull. To say “the matter is closed” because he resigned his sinecure and apologised for being drunk is disrespectful of the potential victims.

The principle has been set with Parish et Al: withdraw the whip, conduct the investigation, return the whip or crack it depending on the outcome. Trying to brush it aside because this guy is one of your pals is boorish nepotism. Tractor Man has a right to be cross.

algarkirk

Anabobazina said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

It is deeply annoying. I’ll add it to the list.

"Train station" replacing "station".

Leon

Anabobazina said:

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

Oh dear, Ireland

Still haven't found the plug?

Could be messy 2nd half. They’ve waited for this match a long time.

For revenge you mean? Or because Covid?

Genuine and extremely important question - is this a PB thing, dropping the "of" after "because"?

I see it quite a lot on here but rarely anywhere else.

It is deeply annoying. I’ll add it to the list.

Rage, rage, against the dying of the light…