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Nine months of Johnson exit betting turbulence – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Norrie into the 3rd round

    Norrie Knoll this year then
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559



    But Partition was on a County by County basis.

    That's how it ended up. Because Unionists ensured that "negotiations" for border modifications were just window dressing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    Norrie into the 3rd round

    Norrie Knoll this year then

    Was looking dicey earlier. I feel a bit for Norris. The hype has been all Murray, yet Norris is ranked in the top 10, and seeded 9 here. BBC particularly bad on this score.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,688

    Nobody ever got to vote one way or the other "for Ulster" if by that you mean "Northern Ireland" which included (and still does) only 6 out of 9 counties of historic Ulster.

    Check out map included with following:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_Irish_general_election

    Which shows that most of the "border districts" of future NI did NOT vote Unionist, instead for SF or IPP.
    There wasn't even an administrative entity called "Northern Ireland" at the 1918 election!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    Oh, it gets better.

    The cash donation accepted by the Prince of Wales for his charity would not happen now, a royal source says.

    "That was then, this is now," the source said, following reports Prince Charles had accepted around £2.5m in cash in a suitcase and carrier bags.

    "It was passed immediately to his charity and it was his charity who decided to accept the money," said the senior royal source...

    The Sunday Times had reported that the donations, in three payments, had been made to the Prince of Wales's Charitable Fund between 2011 and 2015


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61984112

    It was a different time you guys, 2015 was like the dark ages.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Was looking dicey earlier. I feel a bit for Norris. The hype has been all Murray, yet Norris is ranked in the top 10, and seeded 9 here. BBC particularly bad on this score.
    Yes, i mean Murray brought us some great moments but he is not a world force any more. He might roll back the years/injuries and go deep but hes not winning it. Norrie could on top form.
  • .
    kle4 said:

    Oh, it gets better.

    The cash donation accepted by the Prince of Wales for his charity would not happen now, a royal source says.

    "That was then, this is now," the source said, following reports Prince Charles had accepted around £2.5m in cash in a suitcase and carrier bags.

    "It was passed immediately to his charity and it was his charity who decided to accept the money," said the senior royal source...

    The Sunday Times had reported that the donations, in three payments, had been made to the Prince of Wales's Charitable Fund between 2011 and 2015


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61984112

    It was a different time you guys, 2015 was like the dark ages.

    5 BC

    (Before Covid)
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    Leon said:

    How much was she paid to wear that? A lot, I imagine. All she had to do was wear it

    She might have made the sensible calculation that she’s not big and powerful enough to have a long successful grand slam career, especially as it involves soul destroying levels of commitment to a sport, to the exclusion of all else

    Instead she can swan around for 2-3 seasons, make $10m, then take up her offer at Cambridge. Not a bad option

    She may have seen what life on tour is really like and decided on a different course as you say. Can’t help but think the right (and stable!) coach would’ve helped steer her through this tricky early period of her career.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    edited June 2022

    The border followed county boundaries, no Irish county was bisected by the border. "! QUOTE "

    Are you saying for Fermangh voted for the Republic but was compelled to be within Northern Ireland? Anyway I'm off; Mrs Cole is calling me for my evening meal. Have fun everyone
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,688
    edited June 2022

    That's how it ended up. Because Unionists ensured that "negotiations" for border modifications were just window dressing.
    Only FOUR Irish counties had Protestant majorities in 1918!
  • Was looking dicey earlier. I feel a bit for Norris. The hype has been all Murray, yet Norris is ranked in the top 10, and seeded 9 here. BBC particularly bad on this score.
    They always have been it seems to me. They are utterly obsessed with "celebrities" in a way that would make Heat magazine blush, every other show ends up as "Celebrity XYZ" it seems, and their sport reporting is no different.

    When Murray himself was doing well early in his career, the BBC were always still going on about Henman, despite by then Murray clearly being the better player. If Knoll becomes a great player in a decades time no doubt they'll still be talking about him when he's past his time rather than whichever good new player has come on the stage.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    The border followed county boundaries, no Irish county was bisected by the border. "! QUOTE "
    Are you saying for Fermangh voted for the Republic but was compelled to be within Northern Ireland? Anyway I'm off; Mrs Cole is calling me for my evening meal. Have fun everyone


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission

    "The provisional border in 1922 was that which the Government of Ireland Act 1920 made between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland. Most Irish nationalists hoped for a considerable transfer of land to the Free State, on the basis that most border areas had nationalist majorities. However, the Commission recommended relatively small transfers, and in both directions. This was leaked to The Morning Post in 1925, causing protests from both unionists and nationalists.

    In order to avoid the possibility of further disputes, the British, Free State, and Northern Ireland governments agreed to suppress the overall report, and on 3 December 1925, instead of any changes being made, the existing border was confirmed by W. T. Cosgrave for the Free State, Sir James Craig for Northern Ireland, and Stanley Baldwin for the British government, as part of a wider agreement which included a resolution of outstanding financial disagreements. This was then ratified by their three parliaments. The commission's report was not published until 1969."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,688
    edited June 2022

    Are you saying for Fermangh voted for the Republic but was compelled to be within Northern Ireland? Anyway I'm off; Mrs Cole is calling me for my evening meal. Have fun everyone
    In 1918, there was a Nationalist majority across the two Fermanagh seats, and across the three Tyrone seats.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    If you can do regressive things at the state level, you can do progressive things too. Maybe more states rights would shift American politics as a whole in the other direction.
    The problem is that the progressives want to make the rest of the world conform to their very narrow ideology.

    More States’ rights, means that decisions on moral issues are made at the community level, rather than the national level.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    They always have been it seems to me. They are utterly obsessed with "celebrities" in a way that would make Heat magazine blush, every other show ends up as "Celebrity XYZ" it seems, and their sport reporting is no different.

    When Murray himself was doing well early in his career, the BBC were always still going on about Henman, despite by then Murray clearly being the better player. If Knoll becomes a great player in a decades time no doubt they'll still be talking about him when he's past his time rather than whichever good new player has come on the stage.
    I just find it astonishing that we have a top 10 player that most have barely heard about, at least if they listen/watch tennis via the BBC. Defund them.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    moonshine said:

    Wearing that jewellery on court on Monday was bizarre and pretty telling about where her head is. Fair enough if she has decided to milk her 15 mins for all its worth but it seems a shame.

    Criticizing teenager for wearing her hard-earned bling while doing her thing DOES speak volumes - about where YOUR head is at.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158

    Criticizing teenager for wearing her hard-earned bling while doing her thing DOES speak volumes - about where YOUR head is at.
    That Lewis Hamilton chap - he’s going nowhere in his sport with all that jewellery he wears. World champion? World chumpion more like.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    boulay said:

    That Lewis Hamilton chap - he’s going nowhere in his sport with all that jewellery he wears. World champion? World chumpion more like.

    Personal think bling is for the birds - and do NOT mean females by that!

    Also believe it's as wrong to criticize a young woman for wearing jewelry makes as much sense, as when my Daddy Dearest used to criticize yours truly for not getting a haircut, back in the day when I still had hair to cut!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    I just find it astonishing that we have a top 10 player that most have barely heard about, at least if they listen/watch tennis via the BBC. Defund them.
    As well as Cameron Norrie, we have had Kyle Edmund in the top 16 and reaching a GS semi and Dan Evans as high as 21 in the world but they barely get a look in. 4 world class players (Edmund out with injury) but only one gets mass coverage.
    Hopefully Watson, Dart or Boulter can get into week 2 for the women.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724

    I just find it astonishing that we have a top 10 player that most have barely heard about, at least if they listen/watch tennis via the BBC. Defund them.
    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,381
    I suspect the Lib Dems PR demand without a referendum is an opening gambit, which would end up being negotiated down to a PR referendum. What's for sure, though, is Davey knows that the SNP seeking to potentially use the next election as a plebiscite on indy means Labour have no other option than a deal with the Lib Dems in a hung parliament.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Justice Breyer stepping down from tomorrow
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
    Stories have beginnings, and future Wimbledon champ can be made to look quite interesting
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Justice Breyer stepping down from tomorrow

    No surprise there. Sonia Sotomayor needs to be thinking of retiring too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724

    Criticizing teenager for wearing her hard-earned bling while doing her thing DOES speak volumes - about where YOUR head is at.
    It's more a hubris nemesis thing. When you compete (and I have competed very little) it is a mix between wanting to stride out as the big I am, and being careful in case you are sparked out in the first round. Or equivalent.

    I think the feeling with Emma R is that she has done brilliantly but is far from the finished product and there is a sense that she is being told what to do and wear by IMG. Players get a tonne of money for appearing in even the early rounds of major tennis tournaments and good luck to them all but there is something about the girl next door (copyright IMG) appearing in jewelry which costs more than the average wage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    IshmaelZ said:

    Stories have beginnings, and future Wimbledon champ can be made to look quite interesting
    Yes absolutely but there is little to go on. What can you tell me about Norrie that will engage me, a neutral punter.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856

    I suspect the Lib Dems PR demand without a referendum is an opening gambit, which would end up being negotiated down to a PR referendum. What's for sure, though, is Davey knows that the SNP seeking to potentially use the next election as a plebiscite on indy means Labour have no other option than a deal with the Lib Dems in a hung parliament.

    Coalition negotiations might be very protracted if we get an indecisive result.

    Maybe the smart move for the Tories in those circumstances would be to offer a confidence and supply deal to Labour.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    In 1918, there was a Nationalist majority across the two Fermanagh seats, and across the three Tyrone seats.
    Re: Ireland 1918, keep in mind that NOT all who voted for Sinn Fein were committed to an Irish Republic. For example, Arthur Griffith the founder of SF whose advocated a "Dual Monarchy" solution with Ireland restored as separate Kingdom in personal union with King of Great Britain.

    PLUS fact that many non-unionists voted for candidates of the Irish Parliamentary Party (formerly predominant in nationalist Ireland since Parnell's day) and committed to Home Rule within United Kingdom.

    ALSO note that many Irish voters had zero opportunity to cast a vote at all in this election, because nearly a quarter of Irish parliamentary seats (25 of 105) were UNCONTESTED and won by acclamation by SF. (In six other seats there was no Unionist standing.)

    Two of the totally uncontested states were in Cavan, a part of Ulster NOT included in future Northern Ireland.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158
    TOPPING said:

    Yes absolutely but there is little to go on.
    What can you tell me about Norrie that will engage me, a neutral punter.
    His surname is a mash-up of two random words - let’s choose “nosh” and “Carrie”.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,844
    edited June 2022
    FPT
    Alistair said:

    Even ignoring your insane conspiracy nonsense at the end there you miss the or in the description of coup.

    It doesn't need to be a violent to be a coup attempt.
    I didn't miss either option - the reason I say it wasn't a coup is not because I'm arguing it wasn't violent - it's because there was no attempt at a 'change in the government' by those who stormed the Capitol. Storming the Capitol doesn't get you a change in Government. If you hang around long enough, all it gets you is taken out by any half decent SWAT team. I am also not saying that the group wouldn't have assaulted or killed Mike Pence had they seen him (though I feel they'd probably not have killed him), but that act, horiffic as it would have been, would still not have been a coup.

    I am not condoning the rioters actions. I am saying it was a riot (at best), a terror attack at worst. That's enough, without trying to gussy it up as a coup because 'it's Trump'.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,641
    TOPPING said:

    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
    TOPPING said:

    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
    Murray = past his best but one of the best we have had and a champion

    Norrie = good player but the maximum expectation and achievement for him in a grand slam will never be more than QF

    There's the difference.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TOPPING said:

    It's more a hubris nemesis thing. When you compete (and I have competed very little) it is a mix between wanting to stride out as the big I am, and being careful in case you are sparked out in the first round. Or equivalent.

    I think the feeling with Emma R is that she has done brilliantly but is far from the finished product and there is a sense that she is being told what to do and wear by IMG. Players get a tonne of money for appearing in even the early rounds of major tennis tournaments and good luck to them all but there is something about the girl next door (copyright IMG) appearing in jewelry which costs more than the average wage.
    If my niece was criticized for wearing "over the top" jewelry would be just as offended as I am in this instance, with this young woman.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,350
    TOPPING said:

    Yes absolutely but there is little to go on. What can you tell me about Norrie that will engage me, a neutral punter.
    Born in SA of Scottish and Welsh parents, brought up in NZ.

    Lots of options for nationalities when he isn’t winning.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,268
    Meddling worked in Illinois? Maybe:
    "Some believed that, with 2022 looking tough for Democrats, Republicans could take the governor’s mansion in deep blue Illinois.

    That got a lot more difficult after Tuesday’s Republican primary. Voters nominated conservative firebrand state Sen. Darren Bailey over a more traditional Republican candidate to take on Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) in November. Democrats are thrilled about this. Bailey wants to ban abortion in the state (except in cases where the woman’s life is in danger) and has described Chicago as “a crime-ridden, corrupt, dysfunctional hellhole.” He once tried to eject the city from the state, and he has former president Donald Trump’s endorsement.

    Also, this is one instance where meddling by the other party appeared to pay off. The Democratic Governors Association and Pritzker poured money into the Republican primary to try to elevate Bailey and sink his rival, Aurora Mayor Richard Irvin."

    This is unfortunate because Illinois is in serious trouble. Even after recent increases, it still has the lowest bond ratings of any state.

    Barack Obama chose not to retire in his adopted home -- which should tell you something.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    boulay said:

    His surname is a mash-up of two random words - let’s choose “nosh” and “Carrie”.

    Carrie does the noshing by all accounts
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    TOPPING said:

    Yes absolutely but there is little to go on. What can you tell me about Norrie that will engage me, a neutral punter.
    His father is Scottish and his mother is Welsh. We know that mixture gives us purple.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,820
    TOPPING said:

    Yes absolutely but there is little to go on. What can you tell me about Norrie that will engage me, a neutral punter.
    He's about as British as Rusedski.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Sandpit said:

    The problem is that the progressives want to make the rest of the world conform to their very narrow ideology.

    More States’ rights, means that decisions on moral issues are made at the community level, rather than the national level.
    I don't think that demanding equal treatment under the law is a narrow ideology. It commands a majority in both this country and the US. But even if it didn't, I would support the protection of the rights of minorities.
    Why should a gay American pay federal taxes when the federal government won't uphold their rights across the whole country?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,844
    TOPPING said:

    It's more a hubris nemesis thing. When you compete (and I have competed very little) it is a mix between wanting to stride out as the big I am, and being careful in case you are sparked out in the first round. Or equivalent.

    I think the feeling with Emma R is that she has done brilliantly but is far from the finished product and there is a sense that she is being told what to do and wear by IMG. Players get a tonne of money for appearing in even the early rounds of major tennis tournaments and good luck to them all but there is something about the girl next door (copyright IMG) appearing in jewelry which costs more than the average wage.
    It's in the grand tradition - look up the origin of the 'tennis bracelet'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    Justice Breyer stepping down from tomorrow

    As we are only 860 days from the next Presidential election it is quite clear that justice demands his replacement be selected by the next President.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Born in SA of Scottish and Welsh parents, brought up in NZ.

    Lots of options for nationalities when he isn’t winning.
    His Welsh heritage meant that he was famously hampered throughout the 2021 season as Mark Drakeford taped him off on the baseline.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    As we are only 860 days from the next Presidential election it is quite clear that justice demands his replacement be selected by the next President.
    His replacement is already in place
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278

    FPT

    I didn't miss either option - the reason I say it wasn't a coup is not because I'm arguing it wasn't violent - it's because there was no attempt at a 'change in the government' by those who stormed the Capitol. Storming the Capitol doesn't get you a change in Government. If you hang around long enough, all it gets you is taken out by any half decent SWAT team. I am also not saying that the group wouldn't have assaulted or killed Mike Pence had they seen him (though I feel they'd probably not have killed him), but that act, horiffic as it would have been, would still not have been a coup.

    I am not condoning the rioters actions. I am saying it was a riot (at best), a terror attack at worst. That's enough, without trying to gussy it up as a coup because 'it's Trump'.
    Good god! Is this argument still going? It's worse than the Punic wars.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    His replacement is already in place
    Never let facts get in the way of a joke.

    Or if you are an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, never let facts get in the way of anything.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carrie does the noshing by all accounts
    The Prime Minister is practising his service with Norrie. Balls in hand he’s ready to send it down the throat of his opposite number and improve his seeding.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    edited June 2022
    Sandpit said:

    The problem is that the progressives want to make the rest of the world conform to their very narrow ideology.

    More States’ rights, means that decisions on moral issues are made at the community level, rather than the national level.
    I think that the opposite to the truth. The progressives want individual freedom (for abortion, for gay marriage etc). No one is forcing anyone to get gay married or to have an abortion. What the Republicans are doing is forcing their morals on other people.

    Decisions on moral issues should be on an individual basis, not enforced by any community.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101
    edited June 2022

    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    I do like the page on confirmation of Associate Justices, in descending order back to 1945.

    Barrett: 52-48
    Kavanaugh: 50-48
    Gorsuch: 54-45
    Kagan: 63-37
    Sotomayor: 68-31
    Alito: 58-42
    Breyer: 87-9
    Ginsburg: 96-3
    Thomas: 52-48
    Souter: 90-9
    Kennedy: 97-0
    Scalia: 98-0
    O'Connor: 99-0
    Stevens: 98-0
    Rehnquist: 68-26
    Powell Jr: 89-1
    Blackmun: 94-0
    Marshall: 69-11
    Fortas: Acclamation
    Goldberg: Acclamation
    White: Acclamation
    Stewart: 70-17
    Whittaker: Acclamation
    Brennan Jr: Acclamation
    Harlan: 71-11
    Minton: 48-16
    Clark: 73-8
    Burton: Acclamation

    Looks like there was a brief period of near unanimity in confirmations, which broke down after Thomas squeaked through.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate_Justice_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    If my niece was criticized for wearing "over the top" jewelry would be just as offended as I am in this instance, with this young woman.
    The difference being between someone wearing jewelery because they want to, and wearing it because they’re being paid to.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    kle4 said:

    As we are only 860 days from the next Presidential election it is quite clear that justice demands his replacement be selected by the next President.
    Brown has been confirmed 53-47, Romney, Collins and Murkowski joining the Democrats
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    Foxy said:

    I think that the opposite to the truth. The progressives want individual freedom (for abortion, for gay marriage etc). No one is forcing anyone to get gay married or to have an abortion. What the Republicans are doing is forcing their morals on other people.

    Decisions on moral issues should be on an individual basis, not enforced by any community.
    It really is more complicated than that. The 'individual freedom' thing for progressives (and I am pretty much on the progressive side) tends in fact to require all sorts of conformity from those who don't feel that way. For example the outlawing of all sorts of discrimination may well be excellent, but also limits 'individual freedom' to say, think and act in all sorts of ways. As one finds in 'cancel culture'.

    There is a further complication. Progressives want a society in which we are free to live in a society that has gay marriage. By virtue of this an individual is not free to live in a society that doesn't have gay marriage.

    This may be unavoidable, but we should not over claim for what progressivism means. It is also highly restrictive. But this is not noticed because it is assumed that those who object to the restrictions don't count.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    TOPPING said:

    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
    Me
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814


    If my niece was criticized for wearing "over the
    top" jewelry would be just as offended as I am in
    this instance, with this young woman.
    Get over yourself. The criticism here is that she wore over the top jewellery on court, with her Pr firm then making sure that the brand she was wearing carried as much media coverage as the match itself.

    One thing carrying an adidas endorsement on a tennis racquet. Or for that matter a Tiffany’s endorsement off court. But a Tiffany’s endorsement on court seems a bit much when she still has much to prove.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158
    HYUFD said:

    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    Murray = past his best but one of the best we have had and a champion

    Norrie = good player but the maximum expectation and achievement for him in a grand slam will never be more than QF

    There's the difference.
    He won at Indian Wells, the 'fifth' slam. He has the potential in a post big three tour to win a slam.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Real David and Goliath battle
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    algarkirk said:

    It really is more complicated than that. The 'individual freedom' thing for progressives (and I am pretty much on the progressive side) tends in fact to require all sorts of conformity from those who don't feel that way. For example the outlawing of all sorts of discrimination may well be excellent, but also limits 'individual freedom' to say, think and act in all sorts of ways. As one finds in 'cancel culture'.

    There is a further complication. Progressives want a society in which we are free to live in a society that has gay marriage. By virtue of this an individual is not free to live in a society that doesn't have gay marriage.

    This may be unavoidable, but we should not over claim for what progressivism means. It is also highly restrictive. But this is not noticed because it is assumed that those who object to the restrictions don't count.

    Living in a society that prohibits gay marriage imposes clear material costs on gay people. Living in a society that allows gay marriage imposes no costs on those who oppose it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,399
    For all those hoping that Ukraine might cede territory:

    In New Poll, 89% of Ukrainians Reject Ceding Land to Reach Peace With Russia
    Ukrainians back Zelensky’s position that peace talks can’t grant Russia land it has seized, WSJ-NORC poll finds

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-new-poll-89-of-ukrainians-reject-ceding-land-to-reach-peace-with-russia-11656504002?mod=e2tw

    Usual (and unusual) caveats apply...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,569
    boulay said:

    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    I don't think @HYUFD statement is correct about fundamentalists, although his main point stands about two countries in one country.

    I checked Pew out of interest. Places like Florida (24% evangelical), Louisiana (27%), Georgia (38%). See:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/georgia/

    These states are ≈ 70 - 80% christian, but that's not really full fat fundamentalism is it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101
    edited June 2022

    Living in a society that prohibits gay marriage imposes clear material costs on gay people. Living in a society that allows gay marriage imposes no costs on those who oppose it.
    It does if they believe strongly in the Old Testament or Koran and that marriage should only be between heterosexuals for life.

    Most religious people globally are not Anglican liberals
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    edited June 2022
    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism (it only bugs me when the character is British).

    The New York Times, 2022

    https://twitter.com/stefanroberts/status/1542077697542836225

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,838
    algarkirk said:

    It really is more complicated than that. The 'individual freedom' thing for progressives (and I am pretty much on the progressive side) tends in fact to require all sorts of conformity from those who don't feel that way. For example the outlawing of all sorts of discrimination may well be excellent, but also limits 'individual freedom' to say, think and act in all sorts of ways. As one finds in 'cancel culture'.

    There is a further complication. Progressives want a society in which we are free to live in a society that has gay marriage. By virtue of this an individual is not free to live in a society that doesn't have gay marriage.

    This may be unavoidable, but we should not over claim for what progressivism means. It is also highly restrictive. But this is not noticed because it is assumed that those who object to the restrictions don't count.

    You can safely ignore someone who loudly asserts that they are “progressive”. They will either be insufferably smug yet weirdly clueless, like @foxy - or a c*nt
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101
    edited June 2022

    I don't think @HYUFD statement is correct about fundamentalists, although his main point stands about two countries in one country.

    I checked Pew out of interest. Places like Florida (24% evangelical), Louisiana (27%), Georgia (38%). See:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/georgia/

    These states are ≈ 70 - 80% christian, but that's not really full fat fundamentalism is it?
    Majorities in Louisiana and Alabama and West Virginia etc however are anti gay marriage

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-same-sex-marriage/by/state/

    I didn't include Florida though as it is more a swing state, Christian fundamentalist in the North but liberal in Miami and further south
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism.

    The New York Times, 2022

    https://twitter.com/stefanroberts/status/1542077697542836225

    The look of wonder and awe that crosses the face of an American when first confronted with the sight of an electric kettle is still a remarkable thing to behold…

    Clearly they were too busy tied up with getting that man to the moon.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,820
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism.

    The New York Times, 2022

    https://twitter.com/stefanroberts/status/1542077697542836225

    my wife had never seen an electric kettle until she moved to Europe.

    (mrs tres chips in, we don't drink tea, why would we need it)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,838

    Living in a society that prohibits gay marriage imposes clear material costs on gay people. Living in a society that allows gay marriage imposes no costs on those who oppose it.
    Unless you believe it is immoral (like many Muslims do). Then you live in a society which permits evil

    This is the abortion problem
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158
    Are the differences between the southern states and northern states in the US greater than the differences between Scotland and England?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    boulay said:

    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    Living in a society that prohibits gay marriage imposes clear material costs on gay people. Living in a society that allows gay marriage imposes no costs on those who oppose it.
    I see what you are getting at, but suppose you are married and believe that marriage means one man one woman and all that, then your (traditional and by no means perverse) meaning of marriage is not communally available to you - only available as a private or secret thing.

    I'm not opposing things. Just pointing out the limitations of progressive approaches. They are restrictive.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163
    IanB2 said:

    The look of wonder and awe that crosses the face of an American when first confronted with the sight of an electric kettle is still a remarkable thing to behold…

    Clearly they were too busy tied up with getting that man to the moon.
    I thought they didn't work well in the US because they're limited to 110V, and so they take an age to come to the boil?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    They all however voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020 and most of them were also part of the Old Confederacy
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,687
    Sir Andy Murray's tennis career went downhill ever since he backed Scottish independence.

    Coincidence? I think not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101
    edited June 2022
    boulay said:

    Are the differences between the southern states and northern states in the US greater than the differences between Scotland and England?

    Far more, apart from Brexit culturally there is not a huge difference between Scotland and England.

    Culturally however there is a huge difference between most of the Southern US states and the North East and West coast US states
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism (it only bugs me when the character is British).

    The New York Times, 2022

    https://twitter.com/stefanroberts/status/1542077697542836225

    Personally would find a separate device for boiling water unhelpful clutter; when I want to boil some water (say for hot chocolate or VERY occasionally tea) a kettle on the stove is simpler.

    And on this side of Atlantic (and Pacific) I am NOT alone.

    Probably as Ian What's-His-Number implies, because were just too stupid to properly boil water.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    PMQ's with Raab and Angie was good fun today wasn't it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    Deleted. Clumsy fingers!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101

    Sir Andy Murray's tennis career went downhill ever since he backed Scottish independence.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    He also lives in Surrey and trains in Florida, I note his support for Scottish independence does not extend to living there
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,158

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,375
    IanB2 said:

    The look of wonder and awe that crosses the face of an American when first confronted with the sight of an electric kettle is still a remarkable thing to behold…

    Clearly they were too busy tied up with getting that man to the moon.
    Yeah, I don't get it. But then I've seen Americans microwaving cups of tea so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,687
    A tribunal has heard three Met Police officers shared racist Whatsapp messages comparing Meghan Markle to a golliwog and an image of a young boy in a hoodie which was captioned as a 'monkey in the jungle' and superimposed with an image of a penis

    https://twitter.com/lorrainemking/status/1542109648253292544
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    Personally would find a separate device for boiling water unhelpful clutter; when I want to boil some water (say for hot chocolate or VERY occasionally tea) a kettle on the stove is simpler.

    And on this side of Atlantic (and Pacific) I am NOT alone.
    Indeed not apparently, but I am genuinely confused - I get the clutter point, but how is a kettle on a stove simpler? The simplicity of either is pretty similar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,838
    edited June 2022
    Has anyone else tried to read Rebecca West’s Black Lamb and Grey Falcon? My god what a slog. Impossibly slow, excessively long and notably dated. She’s right about Montenegrins tho. They are beautiful people
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    HYUFD said:

    He also lives in Surrey and trains in Florida, I note his support for Scottish independence does not extend to living there
    Closer to Wimbledon if necessary?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Poll news
    Comres UK poll out tonight in the independant
    Comres Scotland indy and holyrood tomorrow morning
    Will the 11 point lead hold??
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    boulay said:

    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    boulay said:

    Are the differences between the southern states and northern states in the US greater than the differences between Scotland and England?

    No, that would be just a question of granularity. Outside the Chicago metropolitan area Illinois is very red , similarly Upstate New York, and the opposite in Kentucky or Georgia.

    It is much more like the English divide between cities and shires, when the USA is looked at at county level.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    Gunning for Khan, KateMcCann tweets

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan coming in for a hell of a lot of criticism during Kit Malthouse statement on Met going into special measures. Calls for him to resign his position and for the Gov to remove his powers over policing in London...

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1542129323414528000?t=xexlFyJRWVRlYAfWllWqtA&s=19
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,268
    If I need to heat water for tea (or anything else), I use my old microwave. Which, with just a little practice, works fine for that purpose. (Decades ago, I did use a kettle on a stove, but the microwave is faster and uses less electricity.)

    Most Americans make coffee in coffee makers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    kle4 said:

    Indeed not apparently, but I am genuinely confused - I get the clutter point, but how is a kettle on a stove simpler? The simplicity of either is pretty similar.
    Isn't the problem that the low voltage US domestic supply makes electric kettles painfully slow to the boil, while the higher wattage running a cooker boils at reasonable speed?
  • kle4 said:

    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism (it only bugs me when the character is British).

    Not an anachronism, just different circumstances. Plug-in electric kettles of the type ubiquitous in Britain are much less useful in the US because their 110v electric supply means the kettle takes much longer to boil than in countries with a 230/240v system. Cookers are on their own high-power circuit, separate from normal sockets, so they can boil water much quicker than a kettle.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    edited June 2022
    HYUFD said:

    They all however voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020 and most of them were also part of the Old Confederacy
    KY, MO and WV were all Union states, indeed WV split away from VA to do so.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    kle4 said:

    Is this a parody? As I'd assumed the tendency of people in American TV programmes to boil a kettle on a stove was just tv anachronism (it only bugs me when the character is British).

    The New York Times, 2022

    https://twitter.com/stefanroberts/status/1542077697542836225

    America has 110v electrics, a kettle takes forever to boil compared to a stove heater.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    I'll spare people the bother of explaining now to me why the US has a much lower voltage electricity supply. That it undermines kettle usage is terrible enough whatever the reason for it, poor devils.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,101
    Foxy said:

    No, that would be just a question of granularity. Outside the Chicago metropolitan area Illinois is very red , similarly Upstate New York, and the opposite in Kentucky or Georgia.

    It is much more like the English divide between cities and shires, when the USA is looked at at county level.
    To an extent but compare for example the county vote in Massachussetts in 2020 to Louisiana. Every county in the former blue, 80% of counties in the latter red

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Louisiana
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MISTY said:

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,820
    HYUFD said:

    To an extent but compare for example the county vote in Massachussetts in 2020 to Louisiana. Every county in the former blue, 80% of counties in the latter red

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Louisiana
    No counties in Louisiana, pal.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    HYUFD said:

    He also lives in Surrey and trains in Florida, I note his support for Scottish independence does not extend to living there
    And the border will look like this


    https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/05/26/bulgaria-migrants-brutally-pushed-back-turkish-border

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,569
    edited June 2022
    Sandpit said:

    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Not half.

    Strikes me this is like a Beckett signing Corbyn nomination papers moment.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,838

    If I need to heat water for tea (or anything else), I use my old microwave. Which, with just a little practice, works fine for that purpose. (Decades ago, I did use a kettle on a stove, but the microwave is faster and uses less electricity.)

    Most Americans make coffee in coffee makers.

    But what if you want boiling water fast, for boiling veg, or whatever? Or some boiling water in a bubbling recipe? With a kettle you’ve got a jug with 2 litres of 100C water, in seconds

    A microwave and a kettle are the two indispensable things on a kitchen counter. Coffee machine close behind. Toaster is nice-to-have
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    kle4 said:

    I'll spare people the bother of explaining now to me why the US has a much lower voltage electricity supply. That it undermines kettle usage is terrible enough whatever the reason for it, poor devils.

    What I found bizarre in NZ in 1990 was that they only had electric kettles (jugs in Kiwi language) that didn't turn themself off, and toasters that didn't eject. I burnt a lot of toast and kettle elements in my year there.
This discussion has been closed.