politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov appears to have changed the way it deals with Ukip a
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Mr. W, sure you aren't great king rat?0
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I felt like I was spamming it on Sunday with my maths-related posts...Morris_Dancer said:F1: after a quiet period there's a lot of spam on the post-race thread, unfortunately. I hope this doesn't persist.
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@JackW
UKIP get 1/5 of the votes and rising. If the electoral system converts that into zero MPs it is not the fault of UKIP!
The LibDems will get obliterated and we'll have a new major national party that wants electoral reform.
In hindsight Dave was dead wrong not to support AV or STV (or Rod Crosby's even more weird & wonderful combo - so complex and wonderful I can't remember how it works). We'd have a sensible government next time nailed down. Right now it looks like 1/3 of the electorate will deliver us a lefty spendy nightmare. System's broken.0 -
Alas, I mean genuine spam, Mr. Jessop.
Hopefully it'll die down. Earlier this year it was so excessive I was considering setting up my own F1 blog, which I'd much rather not do (I've already got a blog, website, twitter as well as betting/writing to do).0 -
Netherlands -0.1%, Hungary +0.7%
"The Netherlands, Berlin's most important ally in pushing for greater budgetary discipline in Europe, has fallen into an economic crisis itself. The once exemplary economy is suffering from huge debts and a burst real estate bubble, which has stalled growth and endangered jobs."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/economic-crisis-hits-the-netherlands-a-891919.html0 -
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I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?Financier said:@Blue_rog
A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."
Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.
They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.
Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.0 -
Thanks. I'm looking for jobs back in UK so I can't spend all my time on here marveling at the quality of the debate. Also, I'm waiting for UK politics to get a little less hysterical but I guess the Mirror's suicide story the other day probably crossed that particular Rubicon.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Paris, nice to see you on again.
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Play the game? Well, I could tie your mother down, I suppose...0
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Best of luck, Mr. Paris. From what's been said here things may actually be picking up in the UK, so let's hope we can add one ex-Parisian to the employment count.0
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Ratings agency Fitch upgraded Greece's credit rating, citing progress in cutting its budget deficit and the risk of a eurozone exit receding.
Fitch up-rated Greece by one notch from CCC to B-, which is still junk status.
But Greece, seen by many last year as likely to leave the eurozone, recently won praise from the International Monetary Fund for progress in putting its finances in order.
Fitch also forecast a milder recession in Greece this year.
The agency said that problems remain and recognised the unpopularity of austerity measures being pushed through by the government.
Fitch said: "The price has been high in terms of lost output and rising unemployment and the capacity for recovery is still in doubt.
"Nonetheless, sovereign debt relief and an easing of fiscal targets have lifted central bank measures of economic sentiment to a three-year high and the risk of eurozone exit has receded."
The Fitch move comes after Standard & Poor's also raised Greece's rating to B-minus with a stable outlook from selective default in December.
The third big ratings agency, Moody's, has a C rating on the credit. All three ratings are still deep in junk territory, however.
Fitch said it expected Greece to have a milder recession this year of 4.3%, and a weak recovery in 2014.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-225331080 -
I rather think the LibDems will have more MPs than Ukip after the 2015 GE.Patrick said:@JackW
UKIP get 1/5 of the votes and rising. If the electoral system converts that into zero MPs it is not the fault of UKIP!
The LibDems will get obliterated and we'll have a new major national party that wants electoral reform.
In hindsight Dave was dead wrong not to support AV or STV (or Rod Crosby's even more weird & wonderful combo - so complex and wonderful I can't remember how it works). We'd have a sensible government next time nailed down. Right now it looks like 1/3 of the electorate will deliver us a lefty spendy nightmare. System's broken.
Ukip's influence will be on other parties policies and the scope of their spoiling effort on the election of those parties MP's.
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JackW said:
That would really be a breakthrough... ;-)0 -
On topic, the right move from YouGov. A party which can be expected to contest the great majority of seats in 2015 and has a proven recent track record of taking 5%+ in nationwide elections (or as close to them as there's been) should be on the first page.
Quite how many seats UKIP will go for is an open question. Were I advising Farage, I'd aim for every one. That probably would mean a fair number of lost deposits in Scotland and - perhaps? - Northern Ireland, but the bigger picture is the important one for them. They may only have this one chance to break through, with two established parties unpopular and in government, the third underwhelming in opposition and all three leaderships fighting over the centre ground at a time of austerity. If they withdraw against BOOers in any other party, they're still acting as a glorified pressure group rather than a potential party of power.
That said, we can still reasonably expect 575+ UKIP candidates; well above the number of any other traditionally 'minor' party will run and on that basis - and the expected number of people who'll pick them in voting intention - YouGov's decision is the correct one.
As Mike has pointed out, elevating UKIP to the first page will of itself provide a further boost and there is a virtuous circle in all this - those who were put off identifying with them as 'extreme' or irrelevant become more willing to support as they become more mainstream and electorally credible. How far that process will go remains to be seen, one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet.0 -
The traffic profile for a political party's website must be pretty odd. Ghost town most of the time, spiking up to millions of users around national elections.DaemonBarber said:
The DDoS caused by genuine traffic is funny.anotherDave said:
Their "DDoS" coincided with their best ever days for signing up new members, while they were being mentioned in the national news headlines following their local election performance.Plato said:
@MikeK is probably the man to know here as he mentioned this, IIRC - the Kipper site was hacked so they flung up v0.2 in 24hrs a few days ago.DaemonBarber said:
True, but I don't think they've come nearly far enough.Plato said:
I think you and others are underestimating how far the Kippers have come in terms of professionalising their media ops and campaigning.
The website is horrible.
Have they finaly abandoned the Tomy - My First Party Branding mess of Bright Purple and Yellow that looked like Nigel knocked it up on Windows 95 using MS Word - WordArt?
It's a bit old hat techie-wise, but they're getting there.
I think is more likely to be a case of legitimate high traffic meeting a budget hosting package.
Their new website is pretty slow. But they could improve that by making minor changes.
The new site has more problems than just slowness though. It's a bit of a mess.
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@PlatoPlato said:
I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?Financier said:@Blue_rog
A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."
Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.
They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.
Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.
Their UK Ops is a shambles and does not appear to have their German parent's discipline in project financial control or in project design.
In general on-shore wind has retreated, but there is still progress in offshore wind.
I will email you some project experience with them in the UK which is really outside the discussion area in this blog.
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I see. You want to be "A good old fashioned lover boy"Morris_Dancer said:Play the game? Well, I could tie your mother down, I suppose...
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I was criticizing the guy you quoted rather than you.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
FPT, Mr. Jones: yeah, I phrased that in a way that was clumsy, but hopefully the meaning came across.
Mr. Rog, you pessimist. I am quite sure Miliband and Balls could do for Britain what Hollande has done for France.0 -
Mr. W, what can I say? Las palabras de amor, perhaps.0
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The flip side of that will be other parties seeing their poll numbers fall. Nervous MPs make for great Westminster drama. :-)david_herdson said:
As Mike has pointed out, elevating UKIP to the first page will of itself provide a further boost and there is a virtuous circle in all this - those who were put off identifying with them as 'extreme' or irrelevant become more willing to support as they become more mainstream and electorally credible. How far that process will go remains to be seen, one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet.
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Mr. Jones, I suspect my paraphrasing was poor rather than the initial phrasing [although I couldn't swear to that, I only caught a snipper].0
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Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?BoredInParis said:Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...
(Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)
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http://order-order.com/2013/05/15/le-triple-dip-for-hollibande/
When will a plucky interviewer mention this to rEd ?0 -
Ah, got you. Fair point.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jones, I suspect my paraphrasing was poor rather than the initial phrasing [although I couldn't swear to that, I only caught a snipper].
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Thanx - will check my email later - their UK Ops were all over the place and I spent weeks in damage control just trying to make sense of the mess they were in vs what German HQ expected vs what employees would take vs what IT systems were able to deliver.Financier said:
@PlatoPlato said:
I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?Financier said:@Blue_rog
A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."
Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.
They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.
Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.
Their UK Ops is a shambles and does not appear to have their German parent's discipline in project financial control or in project design.
In general on-shore wind has retreated, but there is still progress in offshore wind.
I will email you some project experience with them in the UK which is really outside the discussion area in this blog.
How they collectively got into this horror of failed expectation management is a PhD in itself.0 -
This poll linked to by HYUFD last night is interesting for showing the sheer degree of rabid polarisation that has gripped US politics:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html
It's fun too:
"One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess."0 -
MD - It's "A kind of magic."Morris_Dancer said:Mr. W, what can I say? Las palabras de amor, perhaps.
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Eurogeddon back with a vengeance this morning I see...0
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R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...0
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Mr. W, are you saying that you're my fairy king?!0
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You think the Coop crisis is over ?tim said:
Could be as big as the Labour/Co-Op bank scandal.TGOHF said:http://order-order.com/2013/05/15/le-triple-dip-for-hollibande/
When will a plucky interviewer mention this to rEd ?
I note youve dropped your stupid "sub prime" line - progress of sorts.0 -
What a rib ticklerNickPalmer said:
Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?BoredInParis said:Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...
(Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)
Where have UKIP said anything about sending anyone back?
Or ar you playing Baroness Timsis game?0 -
@David_Herdson
"one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet. "
Exactly my point. I expect Kippers to peak in 2014 as a result of the Euro elections - however if they can surf the popularity wave into 2015 - who knows what impact they will have on Big Three policy. If Kippers get even a single MP in 2015, I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?0 -
@NPXMP
I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.
Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?
You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.0 -
I'm sure if you get selected for labour in the next election that'll be a wonderful printout for your rivals on the distain you feel for many of your constituants..NickPalmer said:
Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?BoredInParis said:Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...
(Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)0 -
One wonders how it compares with those who support Obama and, presumably don't take this dastardly view. How, for instance, would the 56,127 from a poorer Philadelphia neighbourhood, who 100.00 per cent voted for Obama fare in such a geographical test. This might also be fun - but not for liberals or teachers' unions .... One also presumes that none of this group have been singled out for special audits by the IRS.NickPalmer said:This poll linked to by HYUFD last night is interesting for showing the sheer degree of rabid polarisation that has gripped US politics:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html
It's fun too:
"One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess."0 -
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I've gone over there and taken their jobs. LOL.NickPalmer said:
Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?BoredInParis said:Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...
(Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)
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The 2014 EU elections are on the same day as the local elections, so a good performance should hopefully result in a crop of new councillors too. That should help them in their target areas, regardless of what happens to the national ratings.Plato said:@David_Herdson
"one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet. "
Exactly my point. I expect Kippers to peak in 2014 as a result of the Euro elections - however if they can surf the popularity wave into 2015 - who knows what impact they will have on Big Three policy. If Kippers get even a single MP in 2015, I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?
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Mr Dancer, you have one of those Vanilla forum messenger mail thingies from me - in case (like me) you don't ever look there.
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But tim , you've gone from an angry young man to an angry old one yourself, you're voting for the wrong party.tim said:Forget the nasty party: this is the Angry Party
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/05/forget-the-nasty-party-this-is-the-angry-party/
Angry, raging, mostly men.
Meet the post detox Tory Party.0 -
Patrick said:
@NPXMP
I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.
Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?
You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.
How easy would it be for Farage to constantly point out that he has two children with his German wife? Another difference from the Westminster elite who use their families to score points.
Credit to him
Nick Palmer has yet to write a post about Ukip without a snide insinuation or patronising tone.
Keep it coming, the politics of the 1980s loony left. As out of date now as it was unpopular then
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Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.TGOHF said:R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...
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The green controlled Brighton and Hove Council have declared Brighton and Hove to be a fracking free zone. I see the modern day luddites are still at large.0
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Mr. M, thanks, and I've just fired off my reply.0
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Thanks. I don't think its impossible, its just the timescale.Morris_Dancer said:Best of luck, Mr. Paris. From what's been said here things may actually be picking up in the UK, so let's hope we can add one ex-Parisian to the employment count.
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The irony is that Palmer , who is Danish , exhibits contempt for the British population that hosts him.samonipad said:Patrick said:@NPXMP
I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.
Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?
You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.
How easy would it be for Farage to constantly point out that he has two children with his German wife? Another difference from the Westminster elite who use their families to score points.
Credit to him
Nick Palmer has yet to write a post about Ukip without a snide insinuation or patronising tone.
Keep it coming, the politics of the 1980s loony left. As out of date now as it was unpopular then
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Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.0
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No but .... "You're my best friend"Morris_Dancer said:Mr. W, are you saying that you're my fairy king?!
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@samonipad
Fully agree. I'm a firm BOOer, hate the EU, want out. Am I a racist? My wife is Chinese, my kids 1/2 n 1/2.
NPXMP you're a git.0 -
Where's the Agree button gone?SouthamObserver said:It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite
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Young Michael Heaver of Ukip writes in the Telegraph
@tykejohnno you'll like this!
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelheaver/100216882/labour-betrayed-its-most-loyal-working-class-supporters-and-it-doesnt-even-care0 -
Mr Kitcat Finance Bod [yes that's his name] from B&H and their increasing of allotment tariffs got very short shrift from local residents a year or so agoNorm said:The green controlled Brighton and Hove Council have declared Brighton and Hove to be a fracking free zone. I see the modern day luddites are still at large.
Councillor Jason Kitcat is set to become the new leader of Brighton and Hove City Council after he was announced as the only candidate to replace Cllr Bill Randall.
Cllr Randall, who as Convenor of the Green Party in Brighton and Hove spearheaded the local election success in 2011, is stepping down from his position as leader of the council to become city mayor in May.
His party has confirmed that the only candidate is Cllr Kitcat, who represents the Regency ward with his wife Ania as the other sitting councillor.
Cllr Kitcat currently, the cabinet member for finance, has been the most talked about councillor during the Green Party's first year in charge of the city as he has been in charge of budget setting, which has included the much-debated 3.5% rise in council tax.
http://www.hovepeople.co.uk/Kitkat-Brighton-Hove-council-leader/story-15286476-detail/story.html
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2 for 2.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.TGOHF said:R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...
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The whole programme is a series of "experts" telling people it isn't anything to do with such matters - so for once you are right.tim said:
The whole programme is focused on race and religion.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.TGOHF said:R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...
TGOHF swallowed his BBC conspiracy whole.
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I agree. I may completely disagree with NP and dislike the way his party conducts politics and what it did to the country, but a little gentle humour certainly puts a human face on a (re)aspiring MP.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
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I've seen Nick Palmer called many things on here but a condom must be a PB first !!Alanbrooke said:@sam
"What a rib tickler"
I think Nick's being more of a french tickler.
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Well, Mr. W, friends will be friends.
Mr. M, sadly playground behaviour meant it was axed, along with most of the other buttons.0 -
..the French tickler comment reminds me of a joke:
Q: What is the difference between sexy and kinky?
A: Sexy is when you stroke her gently with a feather, kinky is when you use the whole chicken.0 -
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
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O/T
Wow - is the Met finally getting its act together?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-225375480 -
@Morris_Dancer
"Well, Mr. W, friends will be friends."
Indeed so and Ukip need some PB friends. Am I the right person ?? perhaps -
"I'm going slightly mad"0 -
Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.tim said:Richard Edgar @ITVRichard 5m
Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour0 -
From the Tele live blog
09.35 Fewer Britons claimed jobless benefits in April, according to the latest unemployment data.
In yet another sign that Britain's economic recovery is gaining traction, the number of claimants fell by 7,300 last month, according to the Office for National Statistics. Analysts had forecast a dip of 3,000.
The official unemployment rate also fell to 7.8pc in the three months to March, from 7.9pc in the previous quarter. However, the number of people without a job on this wider measure increased by 15,000, suggesting that some people dropped out of the workforce altogether.
A bit of perspective0 -
German GDP YoY: -1.4%
Holy shit.0 -
I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.
Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.0 -
Ann Cryer first mentioned this in 2004. I dare say someone with the relevant skills could search out the responses to her comments from other New Labour politicians at the time.tim said:
Again you're lying, Ann Cryer has been on for most of it talking about the Muslim/Pakistani issues in street grooming.TGOHF said:
The whole programme is a series of "experts" telling people it isn't anything to do with such matters - so for once you are right.tim said:
The whole programme is focused on race and religion.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.TGOHF said:R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...
TGOHF swallowed his BBC conspiracy whole.0 -
Recommended reading for the Conservative and Labour Party grieving the loss of their traditional voters to ukip.
You flirted with people who were never going to love you like they used to and now you are paying the price
7 Stages of Grief...
1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.
2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.
You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.
3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.
You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.
During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.
7 Stages of Grief...
5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html0 -
"I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"Plato said:
I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.
Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
0 -
As I understand it, the public sector pay freeze didn't happen.Anorak said:
Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.tim said:Richard Edgar @ITVRichard 5m
Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour
http://burningourmoney.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-freeze-that-never-was.html
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Nick always explores those hard to reach places ;-)JackW said:
I've seen Nick Palmer called many things on here but a condom must be a PB first !!Alanbrooke said:@sam
"What a rib tickler"
I think Nick's being more of a french tickler.0 -
I did and forecast it on here as did several other posters .Plato said:@David_Herdson
I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?
0 -
Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.MrJones said:
"I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"Plato said:
I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.
Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.0 -
tim would rather they were sacked than got small pay rises. Or perhaps we should cut vat so we had to borrow more - so er there would be even less for pay rises. Anyway - he's against us getting poorer - unless it's by our houses rising in value.Anorak said:
Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.tim said:Richard Edgar @ITVRichard 5m
Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour
Basically unless you get rich by becoming a Bulgarian brickie employed by the state - he doesn't like it.
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tim said:
brickonomics @brickonomics 3m
Construction jobs fall in q1 to lowest level since 2002. Jobs lost since peak c450k. And data suggest worse to come. Not good
Wonder what happened to Financiers famous anecdotal predictions regarding construction in this country?
looking at the economic data what happened your mindless anecdotes that immigartion made us all richer ?0 -
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
0 -
Moderated0
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Hence why Ukip on 18% - public are tired of the debate being shut down.Plato said:
Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.MrJones said:
"I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"Plato said:
I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.
Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.0 -
"So many PBers".Plato said:
Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.MrJones said:
"I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"Plato said:
I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.
Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
Who are they?
0 -
Poor EdM...
CCHQ Press Office
Number of men in Full-Time jobs is up month-on-month, now 377,000 MORE than in Q1 2010 via ONS Tab EMP01 ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-a… ……0 -
'essentially flat'tim said:
The employment/unemployment numbers are essentially flat, they certainly aren't showing any gaining of traction in either direction.Blue_rog said:From the Tele live blog
09.35 Fewer Britons claimed jobless benefits in April, according to the latest unemployment data.
In yet another sign that Britain's economic recovery is gaining traction, the number of claimants fell by 7,300 last month, according to the Office for National Statistics. Analysts had forecast a dip of 3,000.
The official unemployment rate also fell to 7.8pc in the three months to March, from 7.9pc in the previous quarter. However, the number of people without a job on this wider measure increased by 15,000, suggesting that some people dropped out of the workforce altogether.
A bit of perspective
The plunging living standards are the story.
It doesn't make it any easier for the poor souls looking for work, but even having an 'essentially flat' market is quite amazing given the economic circumstances.
We also compare quite well to France or other large European countries, with the exception of Germany:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Unemployment_rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_March_2013.png&filetimestamp=201304300920100 -
Hmm...
Catastrophic failings by police and social services allowed a child sex ring to sexually torture girls as young as 11 for eight years.
Victims repeatedly told officers they had been raped or abused by the vicious and ‘medieval’ predators – but no action was taken.
Last night – after the abusers were convicted at the Old Bailey – the police and social services apologised for failing to answer the girls’ desperate pleas for help.
But Sara Thornton, chief constable of Thames Valley Police since 2007, refused to acknowledge calls for her to resign this morning.
The gang groomed more than 50 vulnerable youngsters before selling them for sex around the country.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324386/Missed-chances-halt-sex-gang-Police-social-workers-apologise-girls-tortured-medieval-predators-chief-constable-refuses-resign.html#ixzz2TLmSPGvo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?0 -
Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.0
-
test0
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I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
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They were ridiculousSouthamObserver said:Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.
0 -
Alanbrooke said:
Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?Alanbrooke said:
Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
No, I am asking - given that it has been said that UKIP do not want to send immigrants back to where they came from. Presumably that means the party is happy for all those from the EU who have settled in the UK, and who will settle here between now and our withdrawal, to remain whatever happens.Alanbrooke said:
Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
0 -
Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.samonipad said:
I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.0 -
I thought personal attacks on other posters were disallowed?SouthamObserver said:Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.
But now that you've brought it up, you always used to accuse me of being partisan when 'calling out' posters, and even laughingly claimed that I was trying to be a moral arbiter. In that spirit, it's a shame that you never seem to call out posters whose political beliefs you share when they say outrageous or nasty things.
You're one of the more pleasant and thoughtful posters on here, but your post made me laugh for its sheer lack of self-awareness.0 -
I'd suggest that you are looking for reasons to be insulted by Nick and so are seeing things that are not there. But we will have to agree to disagree. On the policy issue, how do you know that UKIP does not want to send immigrants home if you do not know what their policy is?samonipad said:
I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
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And doesn't this say everything?
martinbrunt @skymartinbrunt
Today I have no story of men doing horrible things to children #phew0 -
So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.Plato said:
Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.samonipad said:
I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.
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I did not say Lewis Duckworth was vile I said his post was, which it was.JosiasJessop said:
I thought personal attacks on other posters were disallowed?SouthamObserver said:Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.
But now that you've brought it up, you always used to accuse me of being partisan when 'calling out' posters, and even laughingly claimed that I was trying to be a moral arbiter. In that spirit, it's a shame that you never seem to call out posters whose political beliefs you share when they say outrageous or nasty things.
You're one of the more pleasant and thoughtful posters on here, but your post made me laugh for its sheer lack of self-awareness.
If you are referring to Tim I have called him out on occcasion - as he will attest, I am sure.
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Apart from deficit (down), unemployment (down), growth (kicking the EU's rear) and now mortgage lending.tim said:@JosiasJessop.
Two years ago Osborne wanted to be compared to the USA,boasting to anyone who would listen that he'd got growth austerity and deficit reduction right while the USA had it wrong.
You can shift the ground as much as you like but on every single measure Osborne has failed.
How would France/Italy/Spain rate on these metrics ?
I expect as the economy continues its betterment there will be more resorting to "racist" and other low tactics.
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I don't think New Labour are racist against white English people.SouthamObserver said:
So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.Plato said:
Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.samonipad said:
I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.
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Mr SO - you paddle in the waters of Intellectual Property definitions and engage with angels on pin-heads on PB - anyone who thinks discussing an issue with you on a broad level is wasting their time as you reduce it to micro points.SouthamObserver said:
So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.Plato said:
Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.samonipad said:
I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.SouthamObserver said:
Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?samonipad said:
Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.SouthamObserver said:Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?
Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?
I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.
As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.
I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.
I've seen you do it dozens of times and its boring and adds nothing. Forgive me for not indulging you here.0
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