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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov appears to have changed the way it deals with Ukip a

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. W, sure you aren't great king rat?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    F1: after a quiet period there's a lot of spam on the post-race thread, unfortunately. I hope this doesn't persist.

    I felt like I was spamming it on Sunday with my maths-related posts...
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    @JackW

    UKIP get 1/5 of the votes and rising. If the electoral system converts that into zero MPs it is not the fault of UKIP!

    The LibDems will get obliterated and we'll have a new major national party that wants electoral reform.

    In hindsight Dave was dead wrong not to support AV or STV (or Rod Crosby's even more weird & wonderful combo - so complex and wonderful I can't remember how it works). We'd have a sensible government next time nailed down. Right now it looks like 1/3 of the electorate will deliver us a lefty spendy nightmare. System's broken.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Alas, I mean genuine spam, Mr. Jessop.

    Hopefully it'll die down. Earlier this year it was so excessive I was considering setting up my own F1 blog, which I'd much rather not do (I've already got a blog, website, twitter as well as betting/writing to do).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,703
    Netherlands -0.1%, Hungary +0.7%

    "The Netherlands, Berlin's most important ally in pushing for greater budgetary discipline in Europe, has fallen into an economic crisis itself. The once exemplary economy is suffering from huge debts and a burst real estate bubble, which has stalled growth and endangered jobs."

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/economic-crisis-hits-the-netherlands-a-891919.html
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, sure you aren't great king rat?

    "Play the game" MD.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    @Blue_rog

    A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."

    Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.

    They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.

    I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?

    Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.
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    Mr. Paris, nice to see you on again.

    Thanks. I'm looking for jobs back in UK so I can't spend all my time on here marveling at the quality of the debate. Also, I'm waiting for UK politics to get a little less hysterical but I guess the Mirror's suicide story the other day probably crossed that particular Rubicon.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Play the game? Well, I could tie your mother down, I suppose...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Best of luck, Mr. Paris. From what's been said here things may actually be picking up in the UK, so let's hope we can add one ex-Parisian to the employment count.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Ratings agency Fitch upgraded Greece's credit rating, citing progress in cutting its budget deficit and the risk of a eurozone exit receding.

    Fitch up-rated Greece by one notch from CCC to B-, which is still junk status.

    But Greece, seen by many last year as likely to leave the eurozone, recently won praise from the International Monetary Fund for progress in putting its finances in order.

    Fitch also forecast a milder recession in Greece this year.

    The agency said that problems remain and recognised the unpopularity of austerity measures being pushed through by the government.

    Fitch said: "The price has been high in terms of lost output and rising unemployment and the capacity for recovery is still in doubt.

    "Nonetheless, sovereign debt relief and an easing of fiscal targets have lifted central bank measures of economic sentiment to a three-year high and the risk of eurozone exit has receded."

    The Fitch move comes after Standard & Poor's also raised Greece's rating to B-minus with a stable outlook from selective default in December.

    The third big ratings agency, Moody's, has a C rating on the credit. All three ratings are still deep in junk territory, however.

    Fitch said it expected Greece to have a milder recession this year of 4.3%, and a weak recovery in 2014.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22533108
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Patrick said:

    @JackW

    UKIP get 1/5 of the votes and rising. If the electoral system converts that into zero MPs it is not the fault of UKIP!

    The LibDems will get obliterated and we'll have a new major national party that wants electoral reform.

    In hindsight Dave was dead wrong not to support AV or STV (or Rod Crosby's even more weird & wonderful combo - so complex and wonderful I can't remember how it works). We'd have a sensible government next time nailed down. Right now it looks like 1/3 of the electorate will deliver us a lefty spendy nightmare. System's broken.

    I rather think the LibDems will have more MPs than Ukip after the 2015 GE.

    Ukip's influence will be on other parties policies and the scope of their spoiling effort on the election of those parties MP's.

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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited May 2013
    JackW said:

    Mr. W, sure you aren't great king rat?

    "Play the game" MD.


    That would really be a breakthrough... ;-)
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On topic, the right move from YouGov. A party which can be expected to contest the great majority of seats in 2015 and has a proven recent track record of taking 5%+ in nationwide elections (or as close to them as there's been) should be on the first page.

    Quite how many seats UKIP will go for is an open question. Were I advising Farage, I'd aim for every one. That probably would mean a fair number of lost deposits in Scotland and - perhaps? - Northern Ireland, but the bigger picture is the important one for them. They may only have this one chance to break through, with two established parties unpopular and in government, the third underwhelming in opposition and all three leaderships fighting over the centre ground at a time of austerity. If they withdraw against BOOers in any other party, they're still acting as a glorified pressure group rather than a potential party of power.

    That said, we can still reasonably expect 575+ UKIP candidates; well above the number of any other traditionally 'minor' party will run and on that basis - and the expected number of people who'll pick them in voting intention - YouGov's decision is the correct one.

    As Mike has pointed out, elevating UKIP to the first page will of itself provide a further boost and there is a virtuous circle in all this - those who were put off identifying with them as 'extreme' or irrelevant become more willing to support as they become more mainstream and electorally credible. How far that process will go remains to be seen, one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Plato said:

    Plato said:



    I think you and others are underestimating how far the Kippers have come in terms of professionalising their media ops and campaigning.

    True, but I don't think they've come nearly far enough.
    The website is horrible.

    Have they finaly abandoned the Tomy - My First Party Branding mess of Bright Purple and Yellow that looked like Nigel knocked it up on Windows 95 using MS Word - WordArt?
    @MikeK is probably the man to know here as he mentioned this, IIRC - the Kipper site was hacked so they flung up v0.2 in 24hrs a few days ago.

    It's a bit old hat techie-wise, but they're getting there.
    Their "DDoS" coincided with their best ever days for signing up new members, while they were being mentioned in the national news headlines following their local election performance.

    I think is more likely to be a case of legitimate high traffic meeting a budget hosting package.

    Their new website is pretty slow. But they could improve that by making minor changes.

    The DDoS caused by genuine traffic is funny.
    The new site has more problems than just slowness though. It's a bit of a mess.

    The traffic profile for a political party's website must be pretty odd. Ghost town most of the time, spiking up to millions of users around national elections.

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    Financier said:

    @Blue_rog

    A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."

    Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.

    They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.

    I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?

    Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.
    @Plato

    Their UK Ops is a shambles and does not appear to have their German parent's discipline in project financial control or in project design.

    In general on-shore wind has retreated, but there is still progress in offshore wind.

    I will email you some project experience with them in the UK which is really outside the discussion area in this blog.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Play the game? Well, I could tie your mother down, I suppose...

    I see. You want to be "A good old fashioned lover boy"

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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Good morning, everyone.

    FPT, Mr. Jones: yeah, I phrased that in a way that was clumsy, but hopefully the meaning came across.

    Mr. Rog, you pessimist. I am quite sure Miliband and Balls could do for Britain what Hollande has done for France.

    I was criticizing the guy you quoted rather than you.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. W, what can I say? Las palabras de amor, perhaps.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746


    As Mike has pointed out, elevating UKIP to the first page will of itself provide a further boost and there is a virtuous circle in all this - those who were put off identifying with them as 'extreme' or irrelevant become more willing to support as they become more mainstream and electorally credible. How far that process will go remains to be seen, one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet.

    The flip side of that will be other parties seeing their poll numbers fall. Nervous MPs make for great Westminster drama. :-)

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Jones, I suspect my paraphrasing was poor rather than the initial phrasing [although I couldn't swear to that, I only caught a snipper].
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,343

    Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...

    Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?

    (Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)



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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    http://order-order.com/2013/05/15/le-triple-dip-for-hollibande/

    When will a plucky interviewer mention this to rEd ?
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Mr. Jones, I suspect my paraphrasing was poor rather than the initial phrasing [although I couldn't swear to that, I only caught a snipper].

    Ah, got you. Fair point.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Financier said:

    @Blue_rog

    A statement said this was partly to do with severe winter weather: "The German economy is only slowly picking up steam. The extreme winter weather played a role in this weak growth."

    Just had my monthly conversation with Siemens Germany HO - we give them specialist advice on certain international projects.

    They are quoting for many projects but are winning few - they believe that they are experiencing strong price competition and also that the Euro is too strong.

    I did a lot of work for Siemens a couple of years ago and they had a lot of eggs in the greeny wind-turbine/energy sector - how's that going for them?

    Their HQ seems to be seriously disconnected from their UK Ops if my experience of trying to help them deliver strategy is anything to go by.
    @Plato

    Their UK Ops is a shambles and does not appear to have their German parent's discipline in project financial control or in project design.

    In general on-shore wind has retreated, but there is still progress in offshore wind.

    I will email you some project experience with them in the UK which is really outside the discussion area in this blog.

    Thanx - will check my email later - their UK Ops were all over the place and I spent weeks in damage control just trying to make sense of the mess they were in vs what German HQ expected vs what employees would take vs what IT systems were able to deliver.

    How they collectively got into this horror of failed expectation management is a PhD in itself.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,343
    edited May 2013
    This poll linked to by HYUFD last night is interesting for showing the sheer degree of rabid polarisation that has gripped US politics:

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html

    It's fun too:

    "One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess."
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, what can I say? Las palabras de amor, perhaps.

    MD - It's "A kind of magic."

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Eurogeddon back with a vengeance this morning I see...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. W, are you saying that you're my fairy king?!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    http://order-order.com/2013/05/15/le-triple-dip-for-hollibande/

    When will a plucky interviewer mention this to rEd ?

    Could be as big as the Labour/Co-Op bank scandal.



    You think the Coop crisis is over ?

    I note youve dropped your stupid "sub prime" line - progress of sorts.
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182

    Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...

    Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?

    (Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)

    What a rib tickler

    Where have UKIP said anything about sending anyone back?

    Or ar you playing Baroness Timsis game?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @David_Herdson

    "one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet. "

    Exactly my point. I expect Kippers to peak in 2014 as a result of the Euro elections - however if they can surf the popularity wave into 2015 - who knows what impact they will have on Big Three policy. If Kippers get even a single MP in 2015, I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?
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    @NPXMP

    I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.

    Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?

    You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...

    Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?

    (Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)



    I'm sure if you get selected for labour in the next election that'll be a wonderful printout for your rivals on the distain you feel for many of your constituants..
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    Lewis_DuckworthLewis_Duckworth Posts: 90
    edited May 2013

    This poll linked to by HYUFD last night is interesting for showing the sheer degree of rabid polarisation that has gripped US politics:

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html

    It's fun too:

    "One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess."

    One wonders how it compares with those who support Obama and, presumably don't take this dastardly view. How, for instance, would the 56,127 from a poorer Philadelphia neighbourhood, who 100.00 per cent voted for Obama fare in such a geographical test. This might also be fun - but not for liberals or teachers' unions .... One also presumes that none of this group have been singled out for special audits by the IRS.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    @sam

    "What a rib tickler"

    I think Nick's being more of a french tickler.
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    Paris calling... The lady (actually Portugese, so not utterly intolerable) ...

    Bored in Paris doesn't seem to be making much progress in integrating. Does he support the French cricket team? Does he know the date of the battle of Tours? Perhaps he'll even want to marry another Brit? Should someone who so dislikes his host country not be sent back?

    (Just trying on the UKIP mindset on for size...)



    I've gone over there and taken their jobs. LOL.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    @David_Herdson

    "one key factor being the extent to which the media treats them as a 'main' party in the run-up to 2015. I'd suggest there's the prospect for several more steps upwards for them yet. "

    Exactly my point. I expect Kippers to peak in 2014 as a result of the Euro elections - however if they can surf the popularity wave into 2015 - who knows what impact they will have on Big Three policy. If Kippers get even a single MP in 2015, I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?

    The 2014 EU elections are on the same day as the local elections, so a good performance should hopefully result in a crop of new councillors too. That should help them in their target areas, regardless of what happens to the national ratings.

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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Mr Dancer, you have one of those Vanilla forum messenger mail thingies from me - in case (like me) you don't ever look there.

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Forget the nasty party: this is the Angry Party

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/05/forget-the-nasty-party-this-is-the-angry-party/

    Angry, raging, mostly men.
    Meet the post detox Tory Party.

    But tim , you've gone from an angry young man to an angry old one yourself, you're voting for the wrong party.
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    Patrick said:

    @NPXMP

    I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.

    Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?

    You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.


    How easy would it be for Farage to constantly point out that he has two children with his German wife? Another difference from the Westminster elite who use their families to score points.

    Credit to him

    Nick Palmer has yet to write a post about Ukip without a snide insinuation or patronising tone.

    Keep it coming, the politics of the 1980s loony left. As out of date now as it was unpopular then
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    TGOHF said:

    R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...

    Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.

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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    The green controlled Brighton and Hove Council have declared Brighton and Hove to be a fracking free zone. I see the modern day luddites are still at large.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. M, thanks, and I've just fired off my reply.
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    BoredInParisBoredInParis Posts: 46
    edited May 2013

    Best of luck, Mr. Paris. From what's been said here things may actually be picking up in the UK, so let's hope we can add one ex-Parisian to the employment count.

    Thanks. I don't think its impossible, its just the timescale.

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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    samonipad said:

    Patrick said:

    @NPXMP

    I think that is a good example of the typically ignorant and dismissive mindset of many on the left against the UKIP worldview - which I think you don't understand.

    Wanting less immigration, certainly less than the Labour 'actively going out to seek them' as per Mandy, is entirely reasonable. Especially so for your 'traditional but no longer' clientele in the white working class. It is not the FACT of immigration but the speed and scale which we can't accommodate. The Australian model is not a bad one to emulate. Are they racists?

    You, as a typical lefty, conflate concern with xenophobia and assuming all of this view hate all foreigners. Utter bunkum. I bet Farage is more comforatble having a pint with his Polish neighbours than Redward could ever be.


    How easy would it be for Farage to constantly point out that he has two children with his German wife? Another difference from the Westminster elite who use their families to score points.

    Credit to him

    Nick Palmer has yet to write a post about Ukip without a snide insinuation or patronising tone.

    Keep it coming, the politics of the 1980s loony left. As out of date now as it was unpopular then
    The irony is that Palmer , who is Danish , exhibits contempt for the British population that hosts him.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, are you saying that you're my fairy king?!

    No but .... "You're my best friend"

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    @samonipad

    Fully agree. I'm a firm BOOer, hate the EU, want out. Am I a racist? My wife is Chinese, my kids 1/2 n 1/2.

    NPXMP you're a git.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite

    Where's the Agree button gone?

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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    Young Michael Heaver of Ukip writes in the Telegraph

    @tykejohnno you'll like this!

    blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelheaver/100216882/labour-betrayed-its-most-loyal-working-class-supporters-and-it-doesnt-even-care
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Norm said:

    The green controlled Brighton and Hove Council have declared Brighton and Hove to be a fracking free zone. I see the modern day luddites are still at large.

    Mr Kitcat Finance Bod [yes that's his name] from B&H and their increasing of allotment tariffs got very short shrift from local residents a year or so ago

    Councillor Jason Kitcat is set to become the new leader of Brighton and Hove City Council after he was announced as the only candidate to replace Cllr Bill Randall.

    Cllr Randall, who as Convenor of the Green Party in Brighton and Hove spearheaded the local election success in 2011, is stepping down from his position as leader of the council to become city mayor in May.

    His party has confirmed that the only candidate is Cllr Kitcat, who represents the Regency ward with his wife Ania as the other sitting councillor.

    Cllr Kitcat currently, the cabinet member for finance, has been the most talked about councillor during the Green Party's first year in charge of the city as he has been in charge of budget setting, which has included the much-debated 3.5% rise in council tax.

    http://www.hovepeople.co.uk/Kitkat-Brighton-Hove-council-leader/story-15286476-detail/story.html
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...

    Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.

    2 for 2.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...

    Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.

    The whole programme is focused on race and religion.
    TGOHF swallowed his BBC conspiracy whole.

    The whole programme is a series of "experts" telling people it isn't anything to do with such matters - so for once you are right.

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    I agree. I may completely disagree with NP and dislike the way his party conducts politics and what it did to the country, but a little gentle humour certainly puts a human face on a (re)aspiring MP.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    @sam

    "What a rib tickler"

    I think Nick's being more of a french tickler.

    I've seen Nick Palmer called many things on here but a condom must be a PB first !!

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Well, Mr. W, friends will be friends.

    Mr. M, sadly playground behaviour meant it was axed, along with most of the other buttons.
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    ..the French tickler comment reminds me of a joke:

    Q: What is the difference between sexy and kinky?
    A: Sexy is when you stroke her gently with a feather, kinky is when you use the whole chicken.
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Patrick said:

    ..the French tickler comment reminds me of a joke:

    Q: What is the difference between sexy and kinky?
    A: Sexy is when you stroke her gently with a feather, kinky is when you use the whole chicken.

    grin
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    O/T

    Wow - is the Met finally getting its act together?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22537548
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Morris_Dancer

    "Well, Mr. W, friends will be friends."

    Indeed so and Ukip need some PB friends. Am I the right person ?? perhaps -

    "I'm going slightly mad"
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Richard Edgar ‏@ITVRichard 5m
    Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour

    Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    From the Tele live blog


    09.35 Fewer Britons claimed jobless benefits in April, according to the latest unemployment data.

    In yet another sign that Britain's economic recovery is gaining traction, the number of claimants fell by 7,300 last month, according to the Office for National Statistics. Analysts had forecast a dip of 3,000.

    The official unemployment rate also fell to 7.8pc in the three months to March, from 7.9pc in the previous quarter. However, the number of people without a job on this wider measure increased by 15,000, suggesting that some people dropped out of the workforce altogether.


    A bit of perspective
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    German GDP YoY: -1.4%

    Holy shit.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?

    I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.

    Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    MaxPB said:

    German GDP YoY: -1.4%

    Holy shit.

    That came out of left field, no?

  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    R5 handwringing fest over grooming - dont mention race. ...

    Presumably the airwaves are being afflicted by the red herrings of sex tourists and aged BBC TV personalities.

    The whole programme is focused on race and religion.
    TGOHF swallowed his BBC conspiracy whole.

    The whole programme is a series of "experts" telling people it isn't anything to do with such matters - so for once you are right.

    Again you're lying, Ann Cryer has been on for most of it talking about the Muslim/Pakistani issues in street grooming.


    Ann Cryer first mentioned this in 2004. I dare say someone with the relevant skills could search out the responses to her comments from other New Labour politicians at the time.
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    edited May 2013
    Recommended reading for the Conservative and Labour Party grieving the loss of their traditional voters to ukip.

    You flirted with people who were never going to love you like they used to and now you are paying the price

    7 Stages of Grief...

    1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
    You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

    2. PAIN & GUILT-
    As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

    You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

    3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
    Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

    You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

    4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
    Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

    During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

    7 Stages of Grief...

    5. THE UPWARD TURN-
    As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

    6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
    As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

    7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
    During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

    http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Anorak said:


    That came out of left field, no?

    Definitely. German economy in trouble. Dutch economy in the mire, French economy in perpetual reverse. The periphery weakness has spread to the core.
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?

    I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.

    Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
    "I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"

    Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Anorak said:

    tim said:

    Richard Edgar ‏@ITVRichard 5m
    Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour

    Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.
    As I understand it, the public sector pay freeze didn't happen.

    http://burningourmoney.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-freeze-that-never-was.html
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    JackW said:

    @sam

    "What a rib tickler"

    I think Nick's being more of a french tickler.

    I've seen Nick Palmer called many things on here but a condom must be a PB first !!

    Nick always explores those hard to reach places ;-)
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Plato said:

    @David_Herdson

    I'll be surprised - but who expected the Greenies to get Brighton Pavilion two years out?

    I did and forecast it on here as did several other posters .

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    MrJones said:

    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?

    I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.

    Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
    "I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"

    Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
    Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    tim said:

    Richard Edgar ‏@ITVRichard 5m
    Wages are falling ever further behind prices, growing 0.8 % in May while inflation is c4 times higher at 2.8%. Mervyn King speaks in an hour

    Any idea of the influence of public-sector pay freezes on the national total? Perhaps those not paid by the state are tracking closer to price increases, so wont 'feel' it as acutely. They're still slowly falling behind prices, though, I'm sure.
    tim would rather they were sacked than got small pay rises. Or perhaps we should cut vat so we had to borrow more - so er there would be even less for pay rises. Anyway - he's against us getting poorer - unless it's by our houses rising in value.

    Basically unless you get rich by becoming a Bulgarian brickie employed by the state - he doesn't like it.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    brickonomics ‏@brickonomics 3m
    Construction jobs fall in q1 to lowest level since 2002. Jobs lost since peak c450k. And data suggest worse to come. Not good


    Wonder what happened to Financiers famous anecdotal predictions regarding construction in this country?


    looking at the economic data what happened your mindless anecdotes that immigartion made us all richer ?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited May 2013
    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited May 2013
    Moderated
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    MrJones said:

    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?

    I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.

    Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
    "I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"

    Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
    Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.
    Hence why Ukip on 18% - public are tired of the debate being shut down.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Plato said:

    MrJones said:

    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?

    I don't know anyone who's a *racist* nowadays - I know a few who are very uncomfortable with homosexuality [and are Old Labour voters], several who are unhappy with immigration and the loss of their own culture/homes.

    Seriously, how many people are actually bothered by someone's skin colour? It seems to me that the vast majority of concerns are about differing cultural or religious views > be it blowing up planes or FGM or peedo gang grooming or whatever.
    "I can't grasp this at all. Why do so many on the Left seek to rubbish other opinions using *racism* as a catch-all term?"

    Because it works. People spend all their time defending themselves from the accusation instead of making their own points.
    Indeed. I weep when I see so many PBers sucked into this game again and again. It's so predictable and boring. I wish posters simply didn't engage in it as it achieves precisely nothings as its Look Squirrel debate.

    "So many PBers".

    Who are they?

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Poor EdM...


    CCHQ Press Office

    Number of men in Full-Time jobs is up month-on-month, now 377,000 MORE than in Q1 2010 via ONS Tab EMP01 ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-a… ……
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    tim said:

    Blue_rog said:

    From the Tele live blog


    09.35 Fewer Britons claimed jobless benefits in April, according to the latest unemployment data.

    In yet another sign that Britain's economic recovery is gaining traction, the number of claimants fell by 7,300 last month, according to the Office for National Statistics. Analysts had forecast a dip of 3,000.

    The official unemployment rate also fell to 7.8pc in the three months to March, from 7.9pc in the previous quarter. However, the number of people without a job on this wider measure increased by 15,000, suggesting that some people dropped out of the workforce altogether.


    A bit of perspective

    The employment/unemployment numbers are essentially flat, they certainly aren't showing any gaining of traction in either direction.
    The plunging living standards are the story.

    'essentially flat'

    It doesn't make it any easier for the poor souls looking for work, but even having an 'essentially flat' market is quite amazing given the economic circumstances.

    We also compare quite well to France or other large European countries, with the exception of Germany:

    http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Unemployment_rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_March_2013.png&filetimestamp=20130430092010
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Hmm...

    Catastrophic failings by police and social services allowed a child sex ring to sexually torture girls as young as 11 for eight years.

    Victims repeatedly told officers they had been raped or abused by the vicious and ‘medieval’ predators – but no action was taken.

    Last night – after the abusers were convicted at the Old Bailey – the police and social services apologised for failing to answer the girls’ desperate pleas for help.

    But Sara Thornton, chief constable of Thames Valley Police since 2007, refused to acknowledge calls for her to resign this morning.

    The gang groomed more than 50 vulnerable youngsters before selling them for sex around the country.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324386/Missed-chances-halt-sex-gang-Police-social-workers-apologise-girls-tortured-medieval-predators-chief-constable-refuses-resign.html#ixzz2TLmSPGvo
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    edited May 2013

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.
  • Options
    test
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182

    Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.

    They were ridiculous

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    Right so a party with absolutely no policies and which brazenly says it won't have any in case they get attacked is now asking others to produce policies ?

    No, I am asking - given that it has been said that UKIP do not want to send immigrants back to where they came from. Presumably that means the party is happy for all those from the EU who have settled in the UK, and who will settle here between now and our withdrawal, to remain whatever happens.

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    samonipad said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

    Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.

    I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.

    I thought personal attacks on other posters were disallowed?

    But now that you've brought it up, you always used to accuse me of being partisan when 'calling out' posters, and even laughingly claimed that I was trying to be a moral arbiter. In that spirit, it's a shame that you never seem to call out posters whose political beliefs you share when they say outrageous or nasty things.

    You're one of the more pleasant and thoughtful posters on here, but your post made me laugh for its sheer lack of self-awareness.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    samonipad said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

    I'd suggest that you are looking for reasons to be insulted by Nick and so are seeing things that are not there. But we will have to agree to disagree. On the policy issue, how do you know that UKIP does not want to send immigrants home if you do not know what their policy is?

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    And doesn't this say everything?

    martinbrunt @skymartinbrunt
    Today I have no story of men doing horrible things to children #phew
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

    Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.

    I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.

    So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    Having looked at Lewis Duckworth's comments from last night I do wonder why he was not called out by more people. They are vile. Not that I believe they should be deleted or anything like that. They should be up there for all time for all to see.

    I thought personal attacks on other posters were disallowed?

    But now that you've brought it up, you always used to accuse me of being partisan when 'calling out' posters, and even laughingly claimed that I was trying to be a moral arbiter. In that spirit, it's a shame that you never seem to call out posters whose political beliefs you share when they say outrageous or nasty things.

    You're one of the more pleasant and thoughtful posters on here, but your post made me laugh for its sheer lack of self-awareness.

    I did not say Lewis Duckworth was vile I said his post was, which it was.

    If you are referring to Tim I have called him out on occcasion - as he will attest, I am sure.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @JosiasJessop.

    Two years ago Osborne wanted to be compared to the USA,boasting to anyone who would listen that he'd got growth austerity and deficit reduction right while the USA had it wrong.

    You can shift the ground as much as you like but on every single measure Osborne has failed.

    Apart from deficit (down), unemployment (down), growth (kicking the EU's rear) and now mortgage lending.

    How would France/Italy/Spain rate on these metrics ?

    I expect as the economy continues its betterment there will be more resorting to "racist" and other low tactics.

  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

    Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.

    I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.

    So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.

    I don't think New Labour are racist against white English people.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    samonipad said:

    samonipad said:

    Memo to Nick Palmer - do not try any kind of humour, however gentle, that may in any way be construed as negative by UKIP supporters. It only serves to demonstrate that you are part of an arrogant, out-of-touch, leftie, urban, anti-British elite; and in no way serves to show that quite a few UKIP supporters on PB are just a tiny bit prickly and sensitive.

    Constantly insinuating that non racist people are racist and want to send people back where they came when theyve said no such thing is not all that funny and is misrepresentative.

    You said yesterday that Labour messed up on immigration, would you like to be smeared as a racist on the back of it?

    Nick is not insinuating that. He was making a joke. He has stated specifically on a number of occasions he does not think UKIP voters are racist. It seems, however, that some UKIP supporters on here want to believe that some people on the left think they are racist. It's a strange one. It's like the claim that no-one was allowed to talk about immigration before 2010 without being called a racist, when in fact everyone was talking about immigration. In any case, even if all of the above is wrong, why would UKIP supporters actually *care* what an effete, anti-British, metropolitan, elite, out-of-touch member of the leftie establishment thinks about them in the first place?

    Has UKIP got a policy on the post-withdrawal residency status of EU citizens who are currently resident in the UK and who will continue to come here between now and our withdrawal?

    I'm sorry I don't want to argue with you, it must be annoying, but Nick Palmer always plants the seed of racism/crossover with BNP whenever he posts about ukip.

    I do care what people think of me, why should I want people, whoever they are or vote for to think I'm a racist, or that I dislike foreigners. I don't base the people I like solely on who they vote for! Wouldn't know who most people I knock about with do.

    As for that policy question, I don't know you will have to look that up yourself.

    Yup. There is an assumption that Kippers are the BNP-lite, that Tories are racists and on and on. Only Labout voters are pure and moral and without flaws. Pfft.

    I wish the Left just packed it in - it's demeaning and frankly repellent.

    So when people on the left specifically state they do not think that UKIP voters are racist what you are saying is that you do not believe them. Thus, you *want* left wingers to believe that UKIP voters are racist.

    Mr SO - you paddle in the waters of Intellectual Property definitions and engage with angels on pin-heads on PB - anyone who thinks discussing an issue with you on a broad level is wasting their time as you reduce it to micro points.

    I've seen you do it dozens of times and its boring and adds nothing. Forgive me for not indulging you here.
This discussion has been closed.