Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
Some really grim racist moments over the weekend tlg at several matches. There was another one besides the Everton fixture but I can't remember where.
The Nazi salute was allegedly made by a Burnley supporter at Spurs - he has now been arrested.
It is the role of Government to try to build a better Britain. Instead they are fanning the flames of culture wars: spreading hate. It's vile.
Good morning
Racism is just wrong but the idea this is down to HMG is just nonsense
There’s less racism, less poverty, less murder and - notwithstanding Putin - less war in the world than ever before.
But saying that doesn’t suit the vested interests, who need these divisions to be exaggerated to suit their own political ends.
Sometimes it really, really, really shows that you don't live anywhere near the United Kingdom.
You are so out of touch.
Just a polite question but why do you think you are?
On a factual basis, the number of reported racist incidents has gone up in recent years.
However, many anti-racism campaigners think that this is due to greater awareness of the issue and less tolerance of racist behaviour. Much as sexual assault reports have climbed in various countries, as the issue has been better handled by the authorities in those countries - IIRC Norway was an example for this?
Anyone who attended football in the 80s and 90s as I did and still goes will recognise the vastly changed landscape at football. It is nothing like the violent, racist sewer it used to be. However there are still sadly some absolute bell ends out there who are responsible for the incidents we see. It's telling that football fans, uniquely in sport, are still segregated. The awful scenes at Wembley last year show that while mostly football is in a better place, the nasty elements are still there. But I'd say they reflect society. Until society grows up fully football, the national game, will still have it's idiots
Pre COVID, I went to see a Harlequins vs Saracens game. Harlequins got pounded into the ground. We were drinking in a private bar in the ground after the game (a friend had got some moderately good tickets though work). The bar was about 90% Harlequins fans. The Saracens team came in for a visit and started signing kit etc. One lucky boy got his Harlequins shirt signed by the entire Saracens team.
I remember thinking at the time, that if all of that had happened at a football match, the result would have made world news. And not in a good way.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
Going a bit deeper, the external shocks imply that real income in the UK has to fall. The question for the BoE is how to manage this. As you point out, interest rates only operate on the demand side, and their effects are not immediate. If real wages are to fall - and they must - then nominal wages have to rise at a slower pace than price inflation. The brunt has to fall on fiscal measures, and they must not accommodate the incipient inflation. On the revenue side of the budget, the govt could leave tax thresholds unchanged so that fiscal drag pulls real wages down as the inflation proceeds. However it would be counterproductive to the need for falling real wages to reduce VAT, so popular demand for VAT reductions to attenuate inflation should be resisted. This is painful for people and politicians. The CotE who carries out the necessary policies will not be popular.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
You know that "levelling up"? Lost towns and cities and whole communities where there are lots of people and few jobs? I've thought of a whizzo way to fix these areas. What if the jobs came to the people? Think about it - no more tired excuses from thicko provincials about childcare and transport.
They could work from home. Monitored via software to make sure they were working. Actually contributing instead of sponging off the state. If only someone could think of a way to make it happen...
Ah well, everyone back to the office.
Apart from the monitored by software bit (pointless in so many different ways) yep WFH allows me to employ staff anywhere.
Working out how to sanely meet them once in a while is difficult though.
It isn't easy! But Mrs RP worked for a home working business for a few years long before Covid as a QA manager, doing remote training coaching and monitoring of people who worked remotely and flexibly. So I know it works because we've done it, and now we all can see how hybrid working releases people from time wasted commuting and opens the labour pool to everyone everywhere.
So why are the government suddenly against it? Its like the profits of their friends and patrons are worth more than strategic national interests or the wider economy. Can't be true...
Nope it's because they are a bunch of luddites / low quality middle managers, who only believe work is being done if they physically can see people.
Their worry is that with work being done in the background, the lack of value the middle manager adds becomes obvious so they will be the first on the block...
There is, I think, an issue with organisations that did not have a sensible system of metrics to monitor what s actually being done.
I work in IT software development. Currently using Agile methodology. A basic idea in Agile, is that work is broken down into small bits. The amount of time for each bit to be done is estimated by the team (as a group). So, there is irate tracking of who has done what. Remote/distributed team working was part of the idea behind Agile. So it is a naturally good fit for WFH.
In many places (private and government) there is no such intrinsic measure of what is actually being done. Instead they have relied on mangers prodding the herd from time to time. The tales we have heard over the last few days, of people with a days work that can be done in an hour, are not that rare.
Certainly where I work (DWP) we are measured on inputs, not outputs. You would have thought the number of people we get into work - or who declare increased earnings - would be a key metric. Not at all. Its about how many minutes we spend talking to people, how many programmes we put them on, etc.
I accept I need to be in the office some of the time. I could easily organise my time so I could work 2-3 days from home. But I am not allowed to. Annoyingly, of course, those managers telling us we have to go into the office fulfill their own criteria for people allowed to work flexibly.
As it happens, the office is only 4 miles away and I was beginning to struggle with motivation working from home, so I'm fairly content, but it would be nice to have the odd day working from home from time to time.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
= wage inflation.
Exactly. The BoE is worried that it has become endemic in the UK. Of course there are other factors. But this is one of them. And as you say hence their nudging (to put it kindly) about wages.
They have it within their power to put up interest rates. Maybe they should do that instead of pleading to workers to accept their failure to control inflation without a pay rise. It's the BoE that has failed.
Higher interest rates are just going to pile more wage inflation pressure on, given mortgages and rents will rise.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
Going a bit deeper, the external shocks imply that real income in the UK has to fall. The question for the BoE is how to manage this. As you point out, interest rates only operate on the demand side, and their effects are not immediate. If real wages are to fall - and they must - then nominal wages have to rise at a slower pace than price inflation. The brunt has to fall on fiscal measures, and they must not accommodate the incipient inflation. On the revenue side of the budget, the govt could leave tax thresholds unchanged so that fiscal drag pulls real wages down as the inflation proceeds. However it would be counterproductive to the need for falling real wages to reduce VAT, so popular demand for VAT reductions to attenuate inflation should be resisted. This is painful for people and politicians. The CotE who carries out the necessary policies will not be popular.
Or we could just wait.
Wait for the war to end so that both Ukraine and Russia can resume exports of wheat and other soft and hard commodities. Wait for China to find a better way to manage Covid so that supply chains can recover.
Will our resident train aficionados be paying it a visit?
IIRC a precedent was set by the Great Escape tunnel (Oflag IVC?) or Colditz. Or indeed almost any mine since the Germans in the middle ages.
Isn't there some evidence that Roman mines had trackways to keep wheeled carts centred in the tunnels? Either that or worn ruts....
There is certainly evidence of ruts going back to the Bronze age (and evidence of local "standard gauges" of cart wheels - presumably just the jigs etc the local bloke who built carts used, and then passed on down from generation to generation. You will struggle to google for good content on this subject because "cart ruts" has been overtaken by the "ancient hi-tech civilisation and maybe aliens" loonies.
You know that "levelling up"? Lost towns and cities and whole communities where there are lots of people and few jobs? I've thought of a whizzo way to fix these areas. What if the jobs came to the people? Think about it - no more tired excuses from thicko provincials about childcare and transport.
They could work from home. Monitored via software to make sure they were working. Actually contributing instead of sponging off the state. If only someone could think of a way to make it happen...
Ah well, everyone back to the office.
Apart from the monitored by software bit (pointless in so many different ways) yep WFH allows me to employ staff anywhere.
Working out how to sanely meet them once in a while is difficult though.
It isn't easy! But Mrs RP worked for a home working business for a few years long before Covid as a QA manager, doing remote training coaching and monitoring of people who worked remotely and flexibly. So I know it works because we've done it, and now we all can see how hybrid working releases people from time wasted commuting and opens the labour pool to everyone everywhere.
So why are the government suddenly against it? Its like the profits of their friends and patrons are worth more than strategic national interests or the wider economy. Can't be true...
Nope it's because they are a bunch of luddites / low quality middle managers, who only believe work is being done if they physically can see people.
Their worry is that with work being done in the background, the lack of value the middle manager adds becomes obvious so they will be the first on the block...
There is, I think, an issue with organisations that did not have a sensible system of metrics to monitor what s actually being done.
I work in IT software development. Currently using Agile methodology. A basic idea in Agile, is that work is broken down into small bits. The amount of time for each bit to be done is estimated by the team (as a group). So, there is irate tracking of who has done what. Remote/distributed team working was part of the idea behind Agile. So it is a naturally good fit for WFH.
In many places (private and government) there is no such intrinsic measure of what is actually being done. Instead they have relied on mangers prodding the herd from time to time. The tales we have heard over the last few days, of people with a days work that can be done in an hour, are not that rare.
Certainly where I work (DWP) we are measured on inputs, not outputs. You would have thought the number of people we get into work - or who declare increased earnings - would be a key metric. Not at all. Its about how many minutes we spend talking to people, how many programmes we put them on, etc.
I accept I need to be in the office some of the time. I could easily organise my time so I could work 2-3 days from home. But I am not allowed to. Annoyingly, of course, those managers telling us we have to go into the office fulfill their own criteria for people allowed to work flexibly.
As it happens, the office is only 4 miles away and I was beginning to struggle with motivation working from home, so I'm fairly content, but it would be nice to have the odd day working from home from time to time.
It is noticeable that customer facing organisation that get a good reputation measure output - customers successfully dealt with.
Way back, Amazon became famous for their tree diagrams - with no leaf leaving a customer just hanging. Some kind of resolution for everything, and with a time scale for 95% of cases.
Nothing like a manager who tells you "No, not for you. Just for me", is there?
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody says 'your all a bunch of racists' at the start of a football match.
I happen to agree that these public exortations are over-done and risk becoming a bit soviet-like ('see it, say it, sorted' is a prime example). But they do not cause bad behaviour.
You know that "levelling up"? Lost towns and cities and whole communities where there are lots of people and few jobs? I've thought of a whizzo way to fix these areas. What if the jobs came to the people? Think about it - no more tired excuses from thicko provincials about childcare and transport.
They could work from home. Monitored via software to make sure they were working. Actually contributing instead of sponging off the state. If only someone could think of a way to make it happen...
Ah well, everyone back to the office.
Apart from the monitored by software bit (pointless in so many different ways) yep WFH allows me to employ staff anywhere.
Working out how to sanely meet them once in a while is difficult though.
It isn't easy! But Mrs RP worked for a home working business for a few years long before Covid as a QA manager, doing remote training coaching and monitoring of people who worked remotely and flexibly. So I know it works because we've done it, and now we all can see how hybrid working releases people from time wasted commuting and opens the labour pool to everyone everywhere.
So why are the government suddenly against it? Its like the profits of their friends and patrons are worth more than strategic national interests or the wider economy. Can't be true...
Nope it's because they are a bunch of luddites / low quality middle managers, who only believe work is being done if they physically can see people.
Their worry is that with work being done in the background, the lack of value the middle manager adds becomes obvious so they will be the first on the block...
There is, I think, an issue with organisations that did not have a sensible system of metrics to monitor what s actually being done.
I work in IT software development. Currently using Agile methodology. A basic idea in Agile, is that work is broken down into small bits. The amount of time for each bit to be done is estimated by the team (as a group). So, there is irate tracking of who has done what. Remote/distributed team working was part of the idea behind Agile. So it is a naturally good fit for WFH.
In many places (private and government) there is no such intrinsic measure of what is actually being done. Instead they have relied on mangers prodding the herd from time to time. The tales we have heard over the last few days, of people with a days work that can be done in an hour, are not that rare.
Guessing irate tracking is an autocorrect
..depends on whether the Agile team are making good enough progress?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
Barty probably wasn't around at the time, but that's pretty well how the intractable inflation problems of the seventies started - with an oil price shock also outside of the control of then governments. The idea that you can have a bit of controlled inflation around 10%, and then everything just returns to normal, is more than a little unrealistic.
Back then we talked about cost push and demand pull inflation. Cost push was an oil shock etc where the cost of things went up. If conditions were right this loss of purchasing power resulted in demand pull with wages going up to compensate.
Conditions are absolutely right for the second stage right now. Almost full employment, record vacancies and, thanks to Brexit, restraints on the supply of labour.
Which makes it even more absurd that the so called experts on the MPC didn’t see this coming. We were vulnerable to stage 2 becoming embedded. And now it is higher wages will drive higher demand resulting in more inflation.
Which isn't a bad thing, so long as it is driven by supply and demand rather than unions/politics.
If the demand pull exceeds what the market can afford the market will stop approving of the pay rises demanded, unemployment might start to rise and the conditions you name leading to the second stage would be resolved and a new equilibrium found.
Bucking the market doesn't work. That both means demanding wage rises when they aren't affordable but it also means denying them when they are and are required.
What we're likely to have is a wealth transfer from consumers and owners to workers.
For nearly two decades the transfer has been going from workers to consumers and owners.
This will be a good thing as it also means a wealth transfer from the old to the young.
Precisely, it is a good thing. It will also mean a wealth transfer from rentiers to workers.
Its funny how people identify so many problems with the British economy (the young and poor struggling, the lack of productivity) but when the market is doing its thing and the invisible hand is trying to fix those problems suddenly people object.
If we have full employment and wages rise then the least productive businesses will have to go out of business. That's a shame for them, but it also will raise our productivity and living standards.
If that means some of us need to spend less time on online discussion forums or other unproductive stuff, that might not be the worst thing in the world.
At our local Mayor making last night - interesting aside was that the local Conservatives are having difficulty finding candidates for the council (it is really just a parish council) - with many of the existing ones not standing next year. Is being known as a Conservative less of a positive attribute these days?
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
Going a bit deeper, the external shocks imply that real income in the UK has to fall. The question for the BoE is how to manage this. As you point out, interest rates only operate on the demand side, and their effects are not immediate. If real wages are to fall - and they must - then nominal wages have to rise at a slower pace than price inflation. The brunt has to fall on fiscal measures, and they must not accommodate the incipient inflation. On the revenue side of the budget, the govt could leave tax thresholds unchanged so that fiscal drag pulls real wages down as the inflation proceeds. However it would be counterproductive to the need for falling real wages to reduce VAT, so popular demand for VAT reductions to attenuate inflation should be resisted. This is painful for people and politicians. The CotE who carries out the necessary policies will not be popular.
Or we could just wait.
Wait for the war to end so that both Ukraine and Russia can resume exports of wheat and other soft and hard commodities. Wait for China to find a better way to manage Covid so that supply chains can recover.
Just waiting seems to imply not reacting to rising prices and falling real wages. I agree, and that is the gist of my point, though it may need careful steering. The thing is, this blip in prices must not be allowed to propagate and amplify further.
Will our resident train aficionados be paying it a visit?
IIRC a precedent was set by the Great Escape tunnel (Oflag IVC?) or Colditz. Or indeed almost any mine since the Germans in the middle ages.
Isn't there some evidence that Roman mines had trackways to keep wheeled carts centred in the tunnels? Either that or worn ruts....
There is certainly evidence of ruts going back to the Bronze age (and evidence of local "standard gauges" of cart wheels - presumably just the jigs etc the local bloke who built carts used, and then passed on down from generation to generation. You will struggle to google for good content on this subject because "cart ruts" has been overtaken by the "ancient hi-tech civilisation and maybe aliens" loonies.
The question is how deliberate the ruts were - were they an annoyance to get fixed, a hoped for outcome that was actually used, or an encouraged and deliberate thing?
One thing to think on is that once such ruts were a thing, a cart with wheels at a different spacing would be very, very difficult to use on the same road.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Not all of them, of course, but enough.
Also, it just breeds resentment - there's definitely a feeling there that They (players, clubs, media etc) are insulting the fans' intelligence - fans can remember back to summer 2020 when They jumped on the BLM bandwagon and the kneeling was part of that - so it doesn't wash when They tell us that now it's purely a general anti-racist message, nothing to do with the BLM campaign at all, and if you don't think the players should be doing for whatever reason you're a racist.
In the exact same way as I say if Northern Ireland votes for reunification with the Republic of Ireland but HYUFD's proposed Antrim terrorists say "we stay in Britain or we blow up buildings" then the right thing to do is proceed with reunification of Ireland and arrest the terrorists.
At the 2011 Census, County Down* was actually more Protestant than Antrim*!
* strictly speaking the Wards in aggregate making up what used to County Down and County Antrim.
At our local Mayor making last night - interesting aside was that the local Conservatives are having difficulty finding candidates for the council (it is really just a parish council) - with many of the existing ones not standing next year. Is being known as a Conservative less of a positive attribute these days?
I find it bizarre to have Party labels at Parish level. My old one banned members of political Parties. Though did insist on a public declaration of how you voted. There really is no need for it tbh
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Will our resident train aficionados be paying it a visit?
IIRC a precedent was set by the Great Escape tunnel (Oflag IVC?) or Colditz. Or indeed almost any mine since the Germans in the middle ages.
Isn't there some evidence that Roman mines had trackways to keep wheeled carts centred in the tunnels? Either that or worn ruts....
There is certainly evidence of ruts going back to the Bronze age (and evidence of local "standard gauges" of cart wheels - presumably just the jigs etc the local bloke who built carts used, and then passed on down from generation to generation. You will struggle to google for good content on this subject because "cart ruts" has been overtaken by the "ancient hi-tech civilisation and maybe aliens" loonies.
The question is how deliberate the ruts were - were they an annoyance to get fixed, a hoped for outcome that was actually used, or an encouraged and deliberate thing?
One thing to think on is that once such ruts were a thing, a cart with wheels at a different spacing would be very, very difficult to use on the same road.
The Romans had pedestrian crossings -stepping stones - in the streets with the stones set so that the cart wheels could get through
At our local Mayor making last night - interesting aside was that the local Conservatives are having difficulty finding candidates for the council (it is really just a parish council) - with many of the existing ones not standing next year. Is being known as a Conservative less of a positive attribute these days?
I find it bizarre to have Party labels at Parish level. My old one banned members of political Parties. Though did insist on a public declaration of how you voted. There really is no need for it tbh
Most village parish councils do not have party labels and candidates stand as Independents.
It only tends to be town councils where the political parties stand candidates
I expect Sunak will do something over the next few weeks in good time before the by-elections.
The windfall tax really should have been a no brainer but because the opposition called for it they’ll avoid that for as long as possible .
The question maybe is that Rishi has played the windfall tax better than labour, as they would have spent it by now and have an empty locker facing the Autumn energy crisis
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
I must say letting people off with taking personal responsibility for their failings is not usually a view expressed by the right on PB.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
Going a bit deeper, the external shocks imply that real income in the UK has to fall. The question for the BoE is how to manage this. As you point out, interest rates only operate on the demand side, and their effects are not immediate. If real wages are to fall - and they must - then nominal wages have to rise at a slower pace than price inflation. The brunt has to fall on fiscal measures, and they must not accommodate the incipient inflation. On the revenue side of the budget, the govt could leave tax thresholds unchanged so that fiscal drag pulls real wages down as the inflation proceeds. However it would be counterproductive to the need for falling real wages to reduce VAT, so popular demand for VAT reductions to attenuate inflation should be resisted. This is painful for people and politicians. The CotE who carries out the necessary policies will not be popular.
This is a point worth emphasising. It's inevitable that the supply shock on fossil fuels will make the country as a whole poorer. The only question is then how that diminution in living standards is distributed.
I am not receiving a "we're all in this together" vibe from HMG.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
At our local Mayor making last night - interesting aside was that the local Conservatives are having difficulty finding candidates for the council (it is really just a parish council) - with many of the existing ones not standing next year. Is being known as a Conservative less of a positive attribute these days?
I find it bizarre to have Party labels at Parish level. My old one banned members of political Parties. Though did insist on a public declaration of how you voted. There really is no need for it tbh
Most village parish councils do not have party labels and candidates stand as Independents.
It only tends to be town councils where the political parties stand candidates
Sensible. Particularly as I have some experience of how much the Parish Council can feud and factionalise on its own initiative without the aid of Party labels.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
When I heard about the Mexican drug tunnel I was sure the same story happened about ten years ago. Now I think I might have actually remembered a plotline in the TV show Weeds..
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
High profile players leaving social media until proper measures to prevent sharing racism online are put in place - might that achieve far more than a gesture that now just goes through the motions before each game?
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
I expect Sunak will do something over the next few weeks in good time before the by-elections.
The windfall tax really should have been a no brainer but because the opposition called for it they’ll avoid that for as long as possible .
The question maybe is that Rishi has played the windfall tax better than labour, as they would have spent it by now and have an empty locker facing the Autumn energy crisis
I disagree . The refusal to put in the windfall tax is an own goal and looks very bad in the eyes of the public . There already is an empty locker so borrowing will have to go up regardless to help mitigate the cost of living crisis .
The Tories will just face “ too little too late “ accusations once they do act .
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
You know that "levelling up"? Lost towns and cities and whole communities where there are lots of people and few jobs? I've thought of a whizzo way to fix these areas. What if the jobs came to the people? Think about it - no more tired excuses from thicko provincials about childcare and transport.
They could work from home. Monitored via software to make sure they were working. Actually contributing instead of sponging off the state. If only someone could think of a way to make it happen...
Ah well, everyone back to the office.
Apart from the monitored by software bit (pointless in so many different ways) yep WFH allows me to employ staff anywhere.
Working out how to sanely meet them once in a while is difficult though.
It isn't easy! But Mrs RP worked for a home working business for a few years long before Covid as a QA manager, doing remote training coaching and monitoring of people who worked remotely and flexibly. So I know it works because we've done it, and now we all can see how hybrid working releases people from time wasted commuting and opens the labour pool to everyone everywhere.
So why are the government suddenly against it? Its like the profits of their friends and patrons are worth more than strategic national interests or the wider economy. Can't be true...
Nope it's because they are a bunch of luddites / low quality middle managers, who only believe work is being done if they physically can see people.
Their worry is that with work being done in the background, the lack of value the middle manager adds becomes obvious so they will be the first on the block...
There is, I think, an issue with organisations that did not have a sensible system of metrics to monitor what s actually being done.
I work in IT software development. Currently using Agile methodology. A basic idea in Agile, is that work is broken down into small bits. The amount of time for each bit to be done is estimated by the team (as a group). So, there is irate tracking of who has done what. Remote/distributed team working was part of the idea behind Agile. So it is a naturally good fit for WFH.
In many places (private and government) there is no such intrinsic measure of what is actually being done. Instead they have relied on mangers prodding the herd from time to time. The tales we have heard over the last few days, of people with a days work that can be done in an hour, are not that rare.
In a lot of jobs the amount of time it takes you to do a task is related to the amount of time you have to do it in. I don't think WFH is much of a factor here. Middle managers hate WFH because it makes it harder to fill people's days with pointless meetings that exist solely to justify the manager's existence.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
High profile players leaving social media until proper measures to prevent sharing racism online are put in place - might that achieve far more than a gesture that now just goes through the motions before each game?
I very much doubt it.
The gesture is still getting people talking about it so it works.
People who leave social media just silence their own voice and social media moves on without them.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
You continue to insult Tory voters in Red Wall seats.
No she doesn't. There are "uneducated and unethical" people in all parts of the country - why would the red wall be different?
What will do it for the Tories in Wakefield is simple: Brexit. Like so many other places the decade or two of apathetic slide towards indifferent local government was stopped by the promise of shiny shiny. Vote for Boris and his Oven Ready Deal and we will bring Pride and Prosperity once again to your shithole northern town in wherever.
So they did. And this by-election in particular will be held just as the Tories are throwing the oven-ready deal in the bin because it brought massive economic and trade problems that nobody knew about (its all project fear) and needs to be scrapped.
Northerners aren't stupid. Enough of them will return to the voting habit they used to have, and the ones reluctant to do that will stay home. Either way, the seat will stay Tory. Yes some people - the uneducated and unethical Tory voter - will stay the course with Boris. But they won't be the story.
What will do for the Tories in Wakefield will be the cost of living crisis which is now really starting to bite.
As for our resident baiters "uneducated and unethical" comment. There are voters of all parties that would fit that criteria. Not everyone who votes Tory is uneducated and unethical. Most do so because they believe the party will improve their lives and make it better.
Some people have such a visceral loathing of one party they just cannot comprehend why people vote for it so need to demonise them for doing so. It is not just people like her. Many on the right do it as well, especially on social media. It is tedious, divisive and does little to help heal our broken and fragmented politics.
Sure - and the whole point of Brexit and the oven-ready deal was to make formerly prosperous places like Wakefield mean something again. So absolutely the cost of everything shooting up is front and centre - Brexit was promised to make us more competitive, bring well paid jobs, give people purpose. And instead people are taking their kids to sit in McDonalds all evening because they can't afford electricity.
I know Heathener was being divisive. But this GOVERNMENT is being divisive - can't we all out their mendaciousness? When you have a government saying poor people are too thick to know what to buy or how to cook and should have the brain to get more work and people STILL VOTE FOR IT I think its reasonable to brand these people uneducated and unethical. Because they are.
The topic of debate on the radio over the past day or two has been the vacancy/unemployment data. In short people are able to get better, higher-paying jobs. That of course is fuelling endemic inflation of the type that @BartholomewRoberts applauds - and the BoE fears so much - but saying people should look to get higher paying jobs is not the sign of a crazed heartless madman. Perhaps a crazed economically-illiterate madman.
And as for cooking well it was enough to fuel a whole debate on PB for a day so not crazy talk at all either.
Inflation is being fuelled overwhelmingly due to commodity prices and relatively next to nothing to do with wages. Commodity prices have surged far, far, far more than other prices (like wages) so inflation < commodity price growth.
If the situation where reversed and we had wages rising significantly and commodity prices suppressed then yes there'd also be [some] inflation but that would be a fraction of wage growth, so that'd be significant real wage growth.
Do you see how this works yet?
Mate don't tell me - tell the Bank of England who are worried about endemic wage inflation. It seems to be floating their boat so perhaps you could write them a pithy memo telling them not to be such silly sausages.
The BoE have a remit to control inflation, and precisely one lever available to them.
The problem they have, is that the inflation is almost all imported, caused by commodity prices and a supply chain crunch, and the products with the highest inflation (fuels) are subject to low price elacticity of demand. That is that demand doesn’t fall by much, as the price rises.
As such, interest rate rises won’t do much in the short term to reduce inflation, which is why the BoE are trying to dampen demand by urging pay restraint. But there’s full employment, and an unprecedented number of people are able to find a better job right now - especially at the lower end of the market.
Going a bit deeper, the external shocks imply that real income in the UK has to fall. The question for the BoE is how to manage this. As you point out, interest rates only operate on the demand side, and their effects are not immediate. If real wages are to fall - and they must - then nominal wages have to rise at a slower pace than price inflation. The brunt has to fall on fiscal measures, and they must not accommodate the incipient inflation. On the revenue side of the budget, the govt could leave tax thresholds unchanged so that fiscal drag pulls real wages down as the inflation proceeds. However it would be counterproductive to the need for falling real wages to reduce VAT, so popular demand for VAT reductions to attenuate inflation should be resisted. This is painful for people and politicians. The CotE who carries out the necessary policies will not be popular.
This is a point worth emphasising. It's inevitable that the supply shock on fossil fuels will make the country as a whole poorer. The only question is then how that diminution in living standards is distributed.
I am not receiving a "we're all in this together" vibe from HMG.
Because it wouldn't be true and everyone knows it wouldn't be true.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
The Bring back the 1950s brigade might win a few more elections with their nonsense, but they know that they will lose the future heart and soul of the country.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
You know that "levelling up"? Lost towns and cities and whole communities where there are lots of people and few jobs? I've thought of a whizzo way to fix these areas. What if the jobs came to the people? Think about it - no more tired excuses from thicko provincials about childcare and transport.
They could work from home. Monitored via software to make sure they were working. Actually contributing instead of sponging off the state. If only someone could think of a way to make it happen...
Ah well, everyone back to the office.
Apart from the monitored by software bit (pointless in so many different ways) yep WFH allows me to employ staff anywhere.
Working out how to sanely meet them once in a while is difficult though.
It isn't easy! But Mrs RP worked for a home working business for a few years long before Covid as a QA manager, doing remote training coaching and monitoring of people who worked remotely and flexibly. So I know it works because we've done it, and now we all can see how hybrid working releases people from time wasted commuting and opens the labour pool to everyone everywhere.
So why are the government suddenly against it? Its like the profits of their friends and patrons are worth more than strategic national interests or the wider economy. Can't be true...
Nope it's because they are a bunch of luddites / low quality middle managers, who only believe work is being done if they physically can see people.
Their worry is that with work being done in the background, the lack of value the middle manager adds becomes obvious so they will be the first on the block...
There is, I think, an issue with organisations that did not have a sensible system of metrics to monitor what s actually being done.
I work in IT software development. Currently using Agile methodology. A basic idea in Agile, is that work is broken down into small bits. The amount of time for each bit to be done is estimated by the team (as a group). So, there is irate tracking of who has done what. Remote/distributed team working was part of the idea behind Agile. So it is a naturally good fit for WFH.
In many places (private and government) there is no such intrinsic measure of what is actually being done. Instead they have relied on mangers prodding the herd from time to time. The tales we have heard over the last few days, of people with a days work that can be done in an hour, are not that rare.
In a lot of jobs the amount of time it takes you to do a task is related to the amount of time you have to do it in. I don't think WFH is much of a factor here. Middle managers hate WFH because it makes it harder to fill people's days with pointless meetings that exist solely to justify the manager's existence.
Just the opposite in my experience. WFH and remote working generally leads to far more time spent in conference calls.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
I object to them pretending it's generally about racism when it's actually about the BLM campaign, as per that article. Sure, Kane wasn't quoted using the words, but the headline should remind you of the context. Have you forgotten that for a couple of games they all wore the BLM slogan on their shirts in place of their names?
I object to them calling people racist - even in some cases banning them from grounds - for objecting to support for this specific political campaign.
It's very telling that people continually use the phrase standing against racism - that is literally what they are not doing. If they did that, approximately nobody would complain. They need to find another gesture, one not so closely linked with the dubious BLM campaign and their earlier support for it, otherwise they will continue to get condemned for their support of it.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
When I heard about the Mexican drug tunnel I was sure the same story happened about ten years ago. Now I think I might have actually remembered a plotline in the TV show Weeds..
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
I expect Sunak will do something over the next few weeks in good time before the by-elections.
The windfall tax really should have been a no brainer but because the opposition called for it they’ll avoid that for as long as possible .
The question maybe is that Rishi has played the windfall tax better than labour, as they would have spent it by now and have an empty locker facing the Autumn energy crisis
I disagree . The refusal to put in the windfall tax is an own goal and looks very bad in the eyes of the public . There already is an empty locker so borrowing will have to go up regardless to help mitigate the cost of living crisis .
The Tories will just face “ too little too late “ accusations once they do act .
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
The Bring back the 1950s brigade might win a few more elections with their nonsense, but they know that they will lose the future heart and soul of the country.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
I was listening to the radio in the car yesterday and there was an ad for Piers Morgan's new show. The clip was him doing some tired nonsense about how vegans are so miserable they should eat a steak to cheer up. It was just embarrassing, so lame, so predictable, so pointless. There must be a market for this kind of basic shit, but can you even imagine being the kind of person who this would appeal to?
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
Interestingly there is now a big majority of Scots voters in favour of retaining Trident. So an iconic SNP shibboleth has become a liability.
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
Er, the question is who comes off worse. That is a question that requires you to pick a side.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
It was explicitly a BLM gesture when they started using it, which is why they started using it. The idea that the message somehow changed when the gesture didn't is frankly risible. Not least because the idea that it was a generic anti-racism gesture only started after fans came back and some booed it.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
The Bring back the 1950s brigade might win a few more elections with their nonsense, but they know that they will lose the future heart and soul of the country.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
I was listening to the radio in the car yesterday and there was an ad for Piers Morgan's new show. The clip was him doing some tired nonsense about how vegans are so miserable they should eat a steak to cheer up. It was just embarrassing, so lame, so predictable, so pointless. There must be a market for this kind of basic shit, but can you even imagine being the kind of person who this would appeal to?
Of course I can, I am male and getting older. My instincts to have a bit of a moan and for a bit of nostalgia are already increasing over time. If I did not stop and think about some of the issues a bit I might be one of them.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
It’s obvious both sides would suffer but clearly the UK would suffer more as its economy is more reliant on EU trade . This is basic economics so not sure why you’re calling Remainers stupid .
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Calling leave voters stupid resulted in brexit
Hang on, don't you think Brexit is a good outcome now?
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
Interestingly there is now a big majority of Scots voters in favour of retaining Trident. So an iconic SNP shibboleth has become a liability.
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
They would both be damaged and would show a failure of leadership by both sides
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
It was explicitly a BLM gesture when they started using it, which is why they started using it. The idea that the message somehow changed when the gesture didn't is frankly risible. Not least because the idea that it was a generic anti-racism gesture only started after fans came back and some booed it.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
It was not explictly a BLM gesture when they started using it , it was explicitly an anti-racism gesture and "BLM" means no more and no less than the words black lives matter for most people. Is there anything dubious about the words black lives matter? No, of course not, just as there's nothing dubious about LFC fans demanding Justice for the 96 (now sadly 97).
By uniting against racism we aren't treating people like animals whatsoever.
Claiming being against racism is dubious is as inane and ridiculous as claiming that everyone flying the nations flag for the Queen's Jubilee is racist because racists use the flag. Would you stand for anyone claiming that bullshit or would you tell them to jog on and stop being silly?
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
The Bring back the 1950s brigade might win a few more elections with their nonsense, but they know that they will lose the future heart and soul of the country.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
I was listening to the radio in the car yesterday and there was an ad for Piers Morgan's new show. The clip was him doing some tired nonsense about how vegans are so miserable they should eat a steak to cheer up. It was just embarrassing, so lame, so predictable, so pointless. There must be a market for this kind of basic shit, but can you even imagine being the kind of person who this would appeal to?
Piers Morgan is the most tedious of all the media loudmouths. He never has an interesting, surprising, or unusual take on anything at all. He merely takes received wisdom and amplifies it over and over again. Almost as if he has no views of his own.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
The message is "we all stand united against any form of discrimination".
Exactly. What Harry Kane said was 100% correct and did not include the words "the crowd are all racist".
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
Calling people who object to support for a dubious political campaign racist gets seen as calling people racist, for some reason.
Standing against racism is not a dubious political campaign, as much as you seem to want to make it one by jumping on two year old quotations of people standing against racism.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
The Bring back the 1950s brigade might win a few more elections with their nonsense, but they know that they will lose the future heart and soul of the country.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
I was listening to the radio in the car yesterday and there was an ad for Piers Morgan's new show. The clip was him doing some tired nonsense about how vegans are so miserable they should eat a steak to cheer up. It was just embarrassing, so lame, so predictable, so pointless. There must be a market for this kind of basic shit, but can you even imagine being the kind of person who this would appeal to?
The market is people who don't like him and so talk about what a moron he is.
Morgan's problem is that Farage is much better at the 'bloke in a pub saying controversial things' entertainment.
Morgan, being detestable, needs a 'nice' person as a a co-host.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
Er, the question is who comes off worse. That is a question that requires you to pick a side.
Not if the word "both" is an option it doesn't.
Both was an option and a plurality of Leave voters chose it. Only 3% of Remain voters did.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Calling leave voters stupid resulted in brexit
Hang on, don't you think Brexit is a good outcome now?
Of course it is not, but then improving it requires both parties to grow up and act in everyone's interest
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
There are 11 EU countries with a higher inflation rate of 9%
And that's EU inflation for March.
Its likely to jump up again in April.
We've already had a flash number for April for EU countries. Inflation in the Euro Area was 7.5% in April; in Germany 7.8%; in France 5.4%; in Italy 6.6%; in Spain 8.3%.
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
It was explicitly a BLM gesture when they started using it, which is why they started using it. The idea that the message somehow changed when the gesture didn't is frankly risible. Not least because the idea that it was a generic anti-racism gesture only started after fans came back and some booed it.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
It was not explictly a BLM gesture when they started using it ,
Oh dear. I understand how painful the year 2020 was and a lot of people have blocked a lot of it out, but you do really seem to have forgotten how football jumped on the BLM campaign's bandwagon that summer when there was already a long-standing football anti-racism campaign in existence.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
Interestingly there is now a big majority of Scots voters in favour of retaining Trident. So an iconic SNP shibboleth has become a liability.
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
If The Times thinks an independent Scotland will retain Trident, what will the United Kingdom do?
Being out of NATO and giving up trident is extreme Celtic Privilege on behalf of the SNP, Safe in the knowledge there will always be someone bigger looking out for them, all the benefits, but making sure they can act holier than thou to those very same nations which would defend them.
As it shows, NATO means a heck of a lot to people which actually are threatened.
When I heard about the Mexican drug tunnel I was sure the same story happened about ten years ago. Now I think I might have actually remembered a plotline in the TV show Weeds..
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
Er, the question is who comes off worse. That is a question that requires you to pick a side.
Not if the word "both" is an option it doesn't.
Both was an option and a plurality of Leave voters chose it. Only 3% of Remain voters did.
If anyone is thick there, it isn't Leave voters.
But why would the EU be hurt as much as us, when trade with the EU is a far bigger share of our imports and exports than it is of theirs?
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
It was explicitly a BLM gesture when they started using it, which is why they started using it. The idea that the message somehow changed when the gesture didn't is frankly risible. Not least because the idea that it was a generic anti-racism gesture only started after fans came back and some booed it.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
It was not explictly a BLM gesture when they started using it ,
Oh dear. I understand how painful the year 2020 was and a lot of people have blocked a lot of it out, but you do really seem to have forgotten how football jumped on the BLM campaign's bandwagon that summer when there was already a long-standing football anti-racism campaign in existence.
Is there anything dubious about the words black lives matter?
There is when the words "all lives matter" are decried as racist and a threat to "black lives matter".
Again the words "BLM" is just anti-racism for almost everyone sane and yes there is a long-standing anti-racism campaign in existence and that is there because there is a longer-standing racism problem in football that is still there.
If the words "all lives matter" are used in response to the the words "black lives matter" then yes that is dismissive, insensitive and nasty of course it is, just as if anyone said "justice for everyone" as an instantaneous response every time "Justice for the 96" was said it would be dismissive, rude and nasty.
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
Considering Leave voters are saying "Both" and Remain voters are picking a side, it seems that Remain voters are the stupid ones.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
Er, the question is who comes off worse. That is a question that requires you to pick a side.
Not if the word "both" is an option it doesn't.
Both was an option and a plurality of Leave voters chose it. Only 3% of Remain voters did.
If anyone is thick there, it isn't Leave voters.
The question was both equally in that respect . Clearly this has hit a nerve for you and you’re now busy digging a hole .
Clearly as the UKs GDP is more reliant on EU trade a trade war hurts the smaller partner more . Not sure this is controversial , it’s basic economics and supported by facts not Leaver Unicorn reality !
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
Interestingly there is now a big majority of Scots voters in favour of retaining Trident. So an iconic SNP shibboleth has become a liability.
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
If The Times thinks an independent Scotland will retain Trident, what will the United Kingdom do?
If this poll means anything, it may be that the SNP are not really being taken very seriously at the moment. Elections are a long way away in any event, and a referendum is more a matter of gesture than substance. Nevertheless Sturgeon remains lucky in her choice of enemies, so I guess the long stalemate in Scottish politics simply continues.
Just one final thought very quickly. Margaret Thatcher thought that inflation was THE scourge. High inflation was the hallmark of the 1970's and we have largely forgotten about what a blight it is on everyone, including the poorest.
It is possible that of all the things which will finish off Boris Johnson, it's inflation that will.
Not helped of course by the fact that whereas Maggie had a parsimonious 'housewife's purse' approach to understanding this scourge, Boris Johnson is a spaffing spendthrift whose personal credit rating is about to be matched by that of his Government's.
Inflation is rising because of rising oil and electricity costs and rising fuel and food prices because of the Ukraine war.
There is not a lot the UK government can do other than try and expand global supply for the former and push for a peaceful resolution to the latter. Until then sanctions on Russia will also bite
It is not just Russia. This was happening before the war. Coming out of COVID was a big impact as it takes time for supply to gear up eg the delivery driver shortage, computer chips, etc. And of course the self inflicted Brexit adding to supply costs with red tape and tarrifs.
The Netherlands and Greece have a higher inflation rate than the UK now, so it is certainly not just Brexit either
This is why it is hard not to call Leave voters stupid. Or does someone want to offer a reasoned defence for the view that the EU would be hurt more than the UK in a trade war?
They would both be damaged and would show a failure of leadership by both sides
Yes I agree but who in your opinion would come off worse?
Some pretty ugly moments in football over the last few days. We've had several incidents of racist chants against black players, Nazi salutes, and even an assault on a player.
Have these things happened before this Government? Of course. But they're deliberately now stoking things up. I would urge every one of you on here to think twice before you join them with 'phobic' hate messages, even as jokes, against demographics that don't fit your mould. Be careful whom you are clambering into bed with. It's not so very different from what Putin does to try and justify his disgusting acts in Ukraine. He too launches attacks on gays, trans people, non-pure Russians and those whom he calls Nazis. I expect he would also launch attacks on Working From Home - making out that these people are lazy layabouts.
Fanning the flames of culture wars is the thing I will most despise this Government for in the years to come. It's far worse than Major's back to basics, which was pretty benign blue rinse rubbish. This is really toxic and it's going to get worse right up until the General Election.
I've been away the last five days, so may missed this, but where was the racist chanting and the nazi salutes?
Billy Sharp is white, so I'm not sure race had anything to do with what happened last night. That said, things have changed since COVID. There does seems to be more t****ish behaviour by supporters.
I'm not sure how much the bad behaviour has actually increased and how much it's just being highlighted more. That said, the Billy Sharp incident yesterday was disgraceful and unexpected - pitch invasions in such circumstances are always going to happen because there are many more fans than stewards. They're usually purely euphoric though and harmless.
Insofar as bad behaviour has increased, I wonder how much of it can be put down to a very human reaction to the "you are all stupid racists" lecture that begins every PL and EFL game.
I've heard some daft excuses for bad behaviour but that beats the lot.
No, I'm with Applicant here. Tell people they're racist often enough and that's what they'll become.
Nobody is telling anyone that.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
But it isn't about that - it has always been about explicit support for one particular dubious political campaign, no matter how much they try to gaslight us now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55151065
Standing against racism is not a dubious campaign. 🤦♂️
Standing against racism would not be a dubious political campaign.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
The BLM campaign to 99.99% of people who heard and used the words just means that black lives matter and does not mean anything dubious whatsoever.
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
They haven't stopped using the BLM gesture. If they want to continue to make a gesture, they should find a different one.
Its not a BLM gesture its an anti-racism gesture. It predates BLM and is associated by 99.9999% of people who see it with anti-racism and not the BLM that may have tried but failed to hijack it.
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
It was explicitly a BLM gesture when they started using it, which is why they started using it. The idea that the message somehow changed when the gesture didn't is frankly risible. Not least because the idea that it was a generic anti-racism gesture only started after fans came back and some booed it.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
It was not explictly a BLM gesture when they started using it ,
Oh dear. I understand how painful the year 2020 was and a lot of people have blocked a lot of it out, but you do really seem to have forgotten how football jumped on the BLM campaign's bandwagon that summer when there was already a long-standing football anti-racism campaign in existence.
Is there anything dubious about the words black lives matter?
There is when the words "all lives matter" are decried as racist and a threat to "black lives matter".
Again the words "BLM" is just anti-racism for almost everyone sane and yes there is a long-standing anti-racism campaign in existence and that is there because there is a longer-standing racism problem in football that is still there.
If the words "all lives matter" are used in response to the the words "black lives matter" then yes that is dismissive, insensitive and nasty of course it is, just as if anyone said "justice for everyone" as an instantaneous response every time "Justice for the 96" was said it would be dismissive, rude and nasty.
"everyone sane" being "people who haven't looked into what the BLM campaign actually stands for", I presume.
In which case there would be a gap when Scotland would be out of NATO and it would also have no protection from the UK nuclear deterrent. While Putin wants to expand Russia into neighbouring nations he also benefits from Western nations breaking up
Interestingly there is now a big majority of Scots voters in favour of retaining Trident. So an iconic SNP shibboleth has become a liability.
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
If The Times thinks an independent Scotland will retain Trident, what will the United Kingdom do?
Being out of NATO and giving up trident is extreme Celtic Privilege on behalf of the SNP, Safe in the knowledge there will always be someone bigger looking out for them, all the benefits, but making sure they can act holier than thou to those very same nations which would defend them.
As it shows, NATO means a heck of a lot to people which actually are threatened.
The SNP now wants a future independent Scotland to join Nato. Scotland would not be allowed to retain Trident on independence so the fact it does not want to is neither here nor there.
It's not about turning away from the world, it's not about separation, it's about how do we ensure that Scotland - a country with historic traditions of being a force in the world - can play that positive force in the world in the future.
Comments
I remember thinking at the time, that if all of that had happened at a football match, the result would have made world news. And not in a good way.
I accept I need to be in the office some of the time. I could easily organise my time so I could work 2-3 days from home. But I am not allowed to. Annoyingly, of course, those managers telling us we have to go into the office fulfill their own criteria for people allowed to work flexibly.
As it happens, the office is only 4 miles away and I was beginning to struggle with motivation working from home, so I'm fairly content, but it would be nice to have the odd day working from home from time to time.
Not sure why you hear "the crowd are all racist".
Wait for the war to end so that both Ukraine and Russia can resume exports of wheat and other soft and hard commodities. Wait for China to find a better way to manage Covid so that supply chains can recover.
Way back, Amazon became famous for their tree diagrams - with no leaf leaving a customer just hanging. Some kind of resolution for everything, and with a time scale for 95% of cases.
Nothing like a manager who tells you "No, not for you. Just for me", is there?
I happen to agree that these public exortations are over-done and risk becoming a bit soviet-like ('see it, say it, sorted' is a prime example). But they do not cause bad behaviour.
Its funny how people identify so many problems with the British economy (the young and poor struggling, the lack of productivity) but when the market is doing its thing and the invisible hand is trying to fix those problems suddenly people object.
If we have full employment and wages rise then the least productive businesses will have to go out of business. That's a shame for them, but it also will raise our productivity and living standards.
If that means some of us need to spend less time on online discussion forums or other unproductive stuff, that might not be the worst thing in the world.
By your own logic, tell people that we all stand (or kneel) together against racism often enough and we'll all unite against racism. So lets keep doing what we're doing.
One thing to think on is that once such ruts were a thing, a cart with wheels at a different spacing would be very, very difficult to use on the same road.
The windfall tax really should have been a no brainer but because the opposition called for it they’ll avoid that for as long as possible .
Also, it just breeds resentment - there's definitely a feeling there that They (players, clubs, media etc) are insulting the fans' intelligence - fans can remember back to summer 2020 when They jumped on the BLM bandwagon and the kneeling was part of that - so it doesn't wash when They tell us that now it's purely a general anti-racist message, nothing to do with the BLM campaign at all, and if you don't think the players should be doing for whatever reason you're a racist.
* strictly speaking the Wards in aggregate making up what used to County Down and County Antrim.
My old one banned members of political Parties. Though did insist on a public declaration of how you voted.
There really is no need for it tbh
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1526817929563619329?s=20&t=w77bD2a_cVqdB0x68ZprAA
It only tends to be town councils where the political parties stand candidates
Saying we stand together against racism is a completely appropriate thing for the players to do and if the small minority who get a kick from racially abusing people don't like it, then they need to realise that they're the problem and that everyone else is united against them and doesn't think it is just acceptable banter.
I am not receiving a "we're all in this together" vibe from HMG.
Particularly as I have some experience of how much the Parish Council can feud and factionalise on its own initiative without the aid of Party labels.
Kneeling in support for the BLM campaign, as they've been doing since summer 2020, is.
If they wanted to make a gesture against racism and not in support of the BLM campaign, that ios what they would do.
Please tell me what words Harry Kane used which are a dubious political campaign? These are the words he used that you find offensive, I'm not seeing any dubious politics in any of it, so please enlighten me as to what you object to.
"I hear people ask if we should still be doing it and we should," said the Tottenham striker, 27.
"What people don't realise is sometimes we are watched by millions of people round the world. Of course, for the person who watches the Premier League every week, they see the same thing every week.
"But I think if you look around the world you see children watching the game for the first time, seeing us all take a knee and asking their parents and asking why we take the knee.
"It's a great chance for people to explain why and get their point across. Education is the biggest thing we can do. Adults can teach generations what it means, and what it means to be together and help each other no matter what your race."
"It means to be together and help each other no matter what your race" - I'm struggling to find anything dubious in that or any way it involves telling people they're all racist.
Sigh.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-argues-ukraine-crisis-26991707
The Tories will just face “ too little too late “ accusations once they do act .
When people objected to dubious politics a few eccentric individuals had that were being used by those words then they stopped using the words BLM and started using their own words which they use today like "Kick It Out" or "United Against Racism" so what is dubious about that? The fact they've stopped saying BLM should be the end of the matter, unless you find United Against Racism to be dubious?
Con voters
UK - 27%
EU - 20%
Both - 40%
Lab voters
UK - 76%
EU - 3%
Both - 11%
Leave voters
UK - 25%
EU - 21%
Both - 36%
Remain voters
UK - 76%
EU - 3%
Both - 14%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/05/18/britons-tend-think-uk-would-come-out-worse-trade-w https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526842823328382976/photo/1
The NHS is having an Open Day at Blyth job centre on Monday in an attempt to entice workers.
The gesture is still getting people talking about it so it works.
People who leave social media just silence their own voice and social media moves on without them.
10 year olds forming opinions today are not going to listen to the Daily Mail or Piers Morgan, but the likes of Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling.
The around the world bit is also important given in lots of authoritarian countries like China and Russia is hard to get anti discrimination messages through, and football is absolutely one of the best ways of spreading our now English values of no discrimination globally.
I object to them calling people racist - even in some cases banning them from grounds - for objecting to support for this specific political campaign.
It's very telling that people continually use the phrase standing against racism - that is literally what they are not doing. If they did that, approximately nobody would complain. They need to find another gesture, one not so closely linked with the dubious BLM campaign and their earlier support for it, otherwise they will continue to get condemned for their support of it.
In a trade war, of course the correct answer is "Both".
First reference seems to be 2006
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans to increase warm home discount by hundreds of pounds before cutting taxes
Treasury officials are looking at a one off increase taking it to £300, £500 or £600 - funded directly by exchequer
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-plans-heating-bill-discounts-and-tax-cuts-5zgwqcbft
You claiming its a BLM gesture is as pathetic as claiming that because the BNP use the Union Flag anyone who uses the Union Flag is a racist and using a racist gesture.
Nonetheless, this rings as substantially true. I wonder how many other industries could have CEO's / owners with such immediate access to the PM. And it's having an effect.
https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1526845000365002753
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1526836612990177280
"A poll published last week suggested that voters in Scotland do not agree with the first minister, with 58 per cent of respondents saying Trident should be retained. Just 20 per cent of people backed scrapping it."
From: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/793bedee-d564-11ec-bb99-1bcd45646516?shareToken=2247c7666b536c19241b14e8ec618428
Its likely to jump up again in April.
If they want to do that, it's fine - I just ask them to be honest about it. Otherwise they're stoking an atmosphere where a section of fans feel that they're seen as a basket of deplorables - and we learned with football fans in the 70s and 80s, if you treat them like animals some of them will behave like it.
NY Times
By uniting against racism we aren't treating people like animals whatsoever.
Claiming being against racism is dubious is as inane and ridiculous as claiming that everyone flying the nations flag for the Queen's Jubilee is racist because racists use the flag. Would you stand for anyone claiming that bullshit or would you tell them to jog on and stop being silly?
He merely takes received wisdom and amplifies it over and over again.
Almost as if he has no views of his own.
Morgan's problem is that Farage is much better at the 'bloke in a pub saying controversial things' entertainment.
Morgan, being detestable, needs a 'nice' person as a a co-host.
Both was an option and a plurality of Leave voters chose it. Only 3% of Remain voters did.
If anyone is thick there, it isn't Leave voters.
As it shows, NATO means a heck of a lot to people which actually are threatened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeds_(season_4)
If the words "all lives matter" are used in response to the the words "black lives matter" then yes that is dismissive, insensitive and nasty of course it is, just as if anyone said "justice for everyone" as an instantaneous response every time "Justice for the 96" was said it would be dismissive, rude and nasty.
Clearly as the UKs GDP is more reliant on EU trade a trade war hurts the smaller partner more . Not sure this is controversial , it’s basic economics and supported by facts not Leaver Unicorn reality !
British spot gas was really cheap yesterday but we can't benefit from it due to reasons now >.>
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/18/gambler-blows-towns-whole-covid-relief-fund-that-appeared-in-his-account
It's not about turning away from the world, it's not about separation, it's about how do we ensure that Scotland - a country with historic traditions of being a force in the world - can play that positive force in the world in the future.