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Hunt makes a leadership move that he says is not a move – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Hunt? Too Coalition era, May era, yesterday's coming man. Would be like wingnut Davis standing again after Cameron stood down, a look backwards. He's too posh, too home counties, too Cameron frankly. He'd scare the horses amongst the new support they've garnered. He might save half a dozen threatened in the blue wall. Hunt vs Starmer and we are all asleep by elevenses. Utterly unispirational.
    Way too much a retrograde step.
    Lump on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    A thought for the Armchair Admiral Generals - a lot has been made of the dangers in modern warfare of fixed positions. Parking your artillery in a neat line and setting up the tea tent is now considered suicide.

    What about military bridges and other military engineering? - they create fixed, obvious targets.

    What will be the solution there?
    They are temporary expedients.
    The Russians are trying to capture a strategic town which controls several river crossings nearby. So far they've failed.

    The lesson here is probably more about the huge disparity in battlefield information available to the two sides. Not in Russia's favour.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    If you're returning civil servant numbers to 2016 levels, but you have more health-related civil servants, then you'll have to cut services elsewhere. Is the Government going to tell us what services it proposes to chop? Because the right-wing press like the sound of cutting numbers, but voters are rather less keen when services vanish.
    The balance between the public sector and the private sector is the important thing.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,463
    edited May 2022
    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.
  • But, given you've offered no rebuttal, I take it you accept that Brexit and COVID-19 both mean necessary increases in civil servant numbers on an ongoing basis.
    Miniscule, not 90k, yes I accept.

    People who are already working with annual vaccines may need to add Covid vaccines to the mix of annual vaccines already arranged. That may require some extra staff, but miniscule on the scale of the Civil Service and not 91,000.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Applicant said:

    The rather key thing is that the notional result has Labour very close to the Lib Dems. That's unlikely to all go yellow in a general election contest.
    EC are extrapolating national polling to the wards. What you need to consider is Hunt is 12% down on his Surrey SW % and in affluent blue wall as per the locals are they really going to Lab??
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,224
    geoffw said:

    Hedgehogs shirley

    Finnish farmers. Known to be heavily armed....
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    EC are extrapolating national polling to the wards. What you need to consider is Hunt is 12% down on his Surrey SW % and in affluent blue wall as per the locals are they really going to Lab??
    Are Labour going to do as badly as they did under Corbyn?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Roger said:

    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.

    It's just one old Etonian giving another one a job, standard operating procedure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,812
    Scott_xP said:

    The 2 minutes hate is one of the "benefits of Brexit"...
    All good targets, to my mind. We need more of them
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884

    Oh really?

    What has the EU Commission done to get the Unionist politicians on board?

    I have been saying here what the solution is for five years and its deceptively simple: No checks.

    We do no checks in GB/NI, no checks NI/Republic, and no alignment.

    If we do that, we don't need EU "cooperation". They're bluffing and always have been, they're not going to erect a border on the island of Ireland and if we don't erect one in the Irish Sea then what exactly is the issue that threatens the GFA?
    Yeah, but they are not going to get that, so trade friction will definitely go up, while there are things UKG can do reduce trade frictions that they choose not to do. Also they are not doing the stakeholder engagement, as I said,
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,463

    It's just one old Etonian giving another one a job, standard operating procedure.
    But their combined efforts are going to lose both of them their jobs
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,719

    Miniscule, not 90k, yes I accept.

    People who are already working with annual vaccines may need to add Covid vaccines to the mix of annual vaccines already arranged. That may require some extra staff, but miniscule on the scale of the Civil Service and not 91,000.
    And all the functions that used to be done at an EU level? Pesticide regulation? Pharmaceutical approvals? Financial regulations? Handling intellectual property rights? Police and judicial cooperation with EU countries? Data protection? Nuclear safeguards? Etc. etc.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Roger said:

    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.

    JRM is a decades ago Tory party hangover. His act has gone very stale, and we are left with a minor character from a Dickens novel inserted purely to personify some grotesque characteristic of man
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,402
    Hunt is not the only politician on manoeuvres. Here in Tallinn the Juri Ratas, leader of Kesk, the junior government coalition partner is attempting to disrupt the government and return to power. So far he has failed and the outcry at his devious and conniving strategy is going to seriously damage Kesk.

    Unfortunately the next election is not due until March 5th next year, and the government has been badly undermined, so it is possible that Kaja Kallas, who is achieving new heights of popularity may still have to stand down at some point. From near parity in December, the polls now show Reform on 32% and Kesk on 17%.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,812
    Roger said:

    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.

    You’ve never particularly mastered the literary art of the “unexpected opening line” or the “arresting first concept” have you?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    edited May 2022
    Roger said:

    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.

    As a justification for breaking your own rules, this is perhaps a bit thin.

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1525038333151395840
    "I think this is a non-story"

    Asked about the latest round of fines for Covid rule-breaking in Downing Street, Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg says: "We need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    I see the DUP are now refusing to participate in the election of a Speaker at Stormont. What is it with these clowns?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942
    edited May 2022
    Applicant said:

    The rather key thing is that the notional result has Labour very close to the Lib Dems. That's unlikely to all go yellow in a general election contest.
    Yep. You need a clear and obviously credible challenger for tactical voting to work. And even then it isn't as simple as adding up all the opposition votes.
    Dominic Raab is in far more trouble imho. It's closer. has an obvious challenger and is nearer to London. Boundary changes are to his disadvantage. Even though there is a much tinier Labour vote to squeeze.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,280

    Is there a remote possibility that the description wasn't written by Boris or by Dowden, but was written by someone working for the charity hosting the event who isn't a fan of theirs?
    "Mr Dowden, who has been the MP for Hertsmere since 2015 and co-chairman of the Conservative Party since 2021, confirmed he donated the item – but had no knowledge of the description.

    The MP’s spokesperson said: “This item was donated in good faith several months ago for a local charity auction.

    “Oliver Dowden had no prior knowledge of the description and this is obviously not his view.”"
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/champagne-jay-rayner-oliver-dowden-b2078221.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    Leon said:

    All good targets, to my mind. We need more of them
    Rootless cosmopolitan flint knappers ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,224
    Nigelb said:

    They are temporary expedients.
    The Russians are trying to capture a strategic town which controls several river crossings nearby. So far they've failed.

    The lesson here is probably more about the huge disparity in battlefield information available to the two sides. Not in Russia's favour.
    What I mean is this - we have an example of a battlefield with continuous, full spectrum surveillance. That is, instead of a once a day spy flight, we have 24/7 (probably) coverage from a variety of systems. See JSTARS and the first Gulf War. Instead of occasional picture, the West (and probably the Ukrainians) are seeing what is happening. Near real time.

    When you tie that to the target generating and allocating system that the Ukrainians are supposed to be using (described the other day) - the gap between starting to assemble your bridge and steel rain could be *minutes*.

    In this case, it must have been hours, since the bridge was in place. Or did they wait to get the whole bridge, the engineers and the equipment crossing it?

    This is the probable shape of future conflicts.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Applicant said:

    Are Labour going to do as badly as they did under Corbyn?
    No but look at raw data to give you some idea of where things may go
    Surrey SW - Hunt 53%, LD 38%. OK new boundaries but now Hunt 41, LD 28 and big labour recovery? In Surrey SW and Hampshire East? They will do better, yes, in line with national polling but the LDs will gain ground if the Tories are falling back. I'm not trying to be Sammy the Sage but those are the factors I'd consider. Surrey SW and Hampshire East giving Lab 23%??
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,664

    (joke)
    Serious comment: have their not been a series of training exercises over Sw Fi involving cooperation with 'allied' (or 'Allied') air forces?

    Though I do not see why that would suddenly trigger supersonic flying.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    I see the DUP are now refusing to participate in the election of a Speaker at Stormont. What is it with these clowns?

    Tbf. They'd be filling a position with no function.
    First off the mark for job cutting in the public sector.
    Maybe the Speaker's salary along with the DUP MLA's could go towards tax cuts?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,364
    Applicant said:

    Are Labour going to do as badly as they did under Corbyn?
    Nationally, no.

    In certain places, very probably. In 2019, left wing voters in Chesham + Amersham, or in North Shropshire, hadn't really forgiven the Lib Dems for their role in coalition. Now, for whatever coughborisjohnsoncough reason, they largely have.

    The nature of FPTP with three parties means that the tension in the tactical wind/unwind matters an awful lot- maybe more than the total number of votes for each party. (See 2015 and 2017; the Conservative share went up under TMthethenPM but the seat count went down. Or 2010 and 2015; the Labour vote share went up under MiliEd, but the seat count went down.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    I am fed up with the way partygate is being run by the police. we are seeing victimisation of one set of people - those at No 10 with investigations that are not happening to any other people in the country, aside of the ridiculous Starmer event (so yes they are being victimised too). The level of the offences is so tiny and the money and time being put into it is totally out of proportion.

    No-one else will ever be investigated for a lock down breach from 2020 to 2021. No-one. Those given FPN's should really be contesting their cases in a court of law. I strongly suspect most would win. Sunak for sure.

    They were wrong to have behaved as they did. Yes government made the rules, but they were stupid, badly written rules which NO-ONE to this day fully understands. And yet partygate is dragging on and on over trivial offences. And we wonder why politicians get frustrated at the media.
    "No-one else will ever be investigated for a lock down breach from 2020 to 2021." On a PBpedantry point - the wallpaper lady; and SKS et al ...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    In the spirit of pragmatism and the PMs ambitious target of getting rid of 90,000 within the government, I would suggest we can make a start with Mr Johnson leaving. 1 down, 89,999 to go.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    What I mean is this - we have an example of a battlefield with continuous, full spectrum surveillance. That is, instead of a once a day spy flight, we have 24/7 (probably) coverage from a variety of systems. See JSTARS and the first Gulf War. Instead of occasional picture, the West (and probably the Ukrainians) are seeing what is happening. Near real time.

    When you tie that to the target generating and allocating system that the Ukrainians are supposed to be using (described the other day) - the gap between starting to assemble your bridge and steel rain could be *minutes*.

    In this case, it must have been hours, since the bridge was in place. Or did they wait to get the whole bridge, the engineers and the equipment crossing it?

    This is the probable shape of future conflicts.
    I'm not a military strategist, but I guess you'd need to look at scenarios with more evenly matched opponents to draw useful conclusions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    Sandpit said:

    Anyone with “Diversity”, “Equality”, or “Inclusion” in their job title?
    You mean, following the legislation passed by Parliament? And making sure we get the best persons, not just public school Oxbridge grads?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,463
    Nigelb said:

    As a justification for breaking your own rules, this is perhaps a bit thin.

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1525038333151395840
    "I think this is a non-story"

    Asked about the latest round of fines for Covid rule-breaking in Downing Street, Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg says: "We need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place"
    Exactly! The man's brain has gone walk-about
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    Dowden’s office has now clarified, saying “This item was donated in good faith several months ago for a local charity auction. Oliver Dowden had no prior knowledge of the description and this is obviously not his view.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited May 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, it is ongoing. It matters getting it right. I don't have an issue with seeking expertise on particular issues. But wholesale outsourcing of such an important function for a key sector is not sensible - either in financial terms or in terms of embedding knowledge at the heart of government so that it is available all the time.

    The loss of institutional memory is one of the reasons why the same failings occur over and over again. People don't know that the issues have been considered before, don't have any well of experience or wisdom to draw on, don't even realise that they need to get help. And so the same blunders recur. I have seen it so often.

    Good financial regulation matters. And it matters now in a post-Brexit world. We should make sure we get it right.
    The history of railway privatisation is a key example of loss of memory when it came to maintaining the track. Whence the Hatfield derailment and the collapse of the commercial firm involved. And very serious damage to the industry, and huge disruption to travellers in the ensuing panic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    Dowden’s office has now clarified, saying “This item was donated in good faith several months ago for a local charity auction. Oliver Dowden had no prior knowledge of the description and this is obviously not his view.”

    Bubblygate...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited May 2022
    MattW said:

    Serious comment: have their not been a series of training exercises over Sw Fi involving cooperation with 'allied' (or 'Allied') air forces?

    Though I do not see why that would suddenly trigger supersonic flying.

    The exercises were about six weeks ago.
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599674-sweden-finland-participate-in-nato-military-exercises/

    Supersonic flying over land is usually only done for genuine operational reasons, not in training.

    IIRC, in the UK at least, supersonic requests go pretty high up the command chain, because it always results in noise complaints and bills for broken windows.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,078
    edited May 2022
    Roger said:

    I don't know if anyone heard J R-M on radio 4 this morning but he was dreadful. He's an ongoing car crash......

    While I was listening I wondered why Johnson would choose someone as unattractive to be the face of the Party. The only thing I could think-and it was a long shot-was that Rees Mogg is the closest in accent and demeanour to Johnson himself and he thought the comparison might show him in a good light.

    Tory members love the Mogg though.

    He is the Tory Corbyn
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Nationally, no.

    In certain places, very probably. In 2019, left wing voters in Chesham + Amersham, or in North Shropshire, hadn't really forgiven the Lib Dems for their role in coalition. Now, for whatever coughborisjohnsoncough reason, they largely have.

    The nature of FPTP with three parties means that the tension in the tactical wind/unwind matters an awful lot- maybe more than the total number of votes for each party. (See 2015 and 2017; the Conservative share went up under TMthethenPM but the seat count went down. Or 2010 and 2015; the Labour vote share went up under MiliEd, but the seat count went down.)
    In 2019, the LDs got 59% of the non-Tory vote in both C&A and NS, so I'm not sure that "hadn't really forgiven the Lib Dems for their role in coalition" is accurate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,364

    In the spirit of pragmatism and the PMs ambitious target of getting rid of 90,000 within the government, I would suggest we can make a start with Mr Johnson leaving. 1 down, 89,999 to go.

    HMG is looking to get rid of Civil Servants. Johnson is more of an arrogant master.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Carnyx said:

    You mean, following the legislation passed by Parliament? And making sure we get the best persons, not just public school Oxbridge grads?
    EDI isn't about making sure you get the best people.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Roger said:

    Exactly! The man's brain has gone walk-about
    You don't think we need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    Carnyx said:

    "No-one else will ever be investigated for a lock down breach from 2020 to 2021." On a PBpedantry point - the wallpaper lady; and SKS et al ...
    I thought I'd covered SKS, and wallpaper lady by implication?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    I thought I'd covered SKS, and wallpaper lady by implication?
    Yep, sorry for brain fart - can't think what happened.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,343
    edited May 2022

    Dowden’s office has now clarified, saying “This item was donated in good faith several months ago for a local charity auction. Oliver Dowden had no prior knowledge of the description and this is obviously not his view.”

    Phew, can go back to thinking these bunch of ****s are too stupid to be humorous and are without a hint of satirical self awareness.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Applicant said:

    You don't think we need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place?
    Mogg voted for them. If he had such a problem with them he should have voted against . Telling the public now the rules might have been wrong in an effort to mitigate no 10s rule breaking is pathetic and only going to wind people up .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    Applicant said:

    EDI isn't about making sure you get the best people.
    It's a very necessary tool for any sort of organization. I've just done some refresher training as part of helpinjg out with an organization. Rather iompressed wit it, actually - very painless (vastly so, compared with myth) and some unexpected insights.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,224
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, it is ongoing. It matters getting it right. I don't have an issue with seeking expertise on particular issues. But wholesale outsourcing of such an important function for a key sector is not sensible - either in financial terms or in terms of embedding knowledge at the heart of government so that it is available all the time.

    The loss of institutional memory is one of the reasons why the same failings occur over and over again. People don't know that the issues have been considered before, don't have any well of experience or wisdom to draw on, don't even realise that they need to get help. And so the same blunders recur. I have seen it so often.

    Good financial regulation matters. And it matters now in a post-Brexit world. We should make sure we get it right.
    Outsourcing completely leads to loss of institutional knowledge, and control
    Insourcing completely means either the staff become very stretched when a major increase in work is required, or there will be excess staff in the slack times.

    One answer has been found in the idea of permanent teams managing functions. When there is a "bump" in work, they bring in outside recourses (develop an application, says). The permanent staff need to have the skills that the temporary staff do - this is so that they retain the knowledge - the temporary staff provide capacity, not the knowledge as such.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Applicant said:

    EDI isn't about making sure you get the best people.
    That's exactly what it is about.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    HYUFD said:

    Tory members love the Mogg though.

    He is the Tory Corbyn
    and almost as thick, which says a lot about the type of people that are attracted to be members of the two main parties at the current time
  • novanova Posts: 754

    I am fed up with the way partygate is being run by the police. we are seeing victimisation of one set of people - those at No 10 with investigations that are not happening to any other people in the country, aside of the ridiculous Starmer event (so yes they are being victimised too). The level of the offences is so tiny and the money and time being put into it is totally out of proportion.

    No-one else will ever be investigated for a lock down breach from 2020 to 2021. No-one. Those given FPN's should really be contesting their cases in a court of law. I strongly suspect most would win. Sunak for sure.

    They were wrong to have behaved as they did. Yes government made the rules, but they were stupid, badly written rules which NO-ONE to this day fully understands. And yet partygate is dragging on and on over trivial offences. And we wonder why politicians get frustrated at the media.
    There's a strong argument for it not being a police matter. The sheer number of events at Downing Street IS a legitimate political scandal though, and probably should have been judged that way.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    Applicant said:

    You don't think we need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place?
    Would we have done that if a builder from Burnley was the bloke getting loads of fines rather than the PM and his mates?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Phew, can go back to thinking these bunch of ****s are too stupid to be humorous and are without a hint of satirical self awareness.
    Not so sure. There's either some irony, or some confused thinking in the statement that

    "the description [...] is obviously not his view"

    His view is that Mr Johnson isn't a person of exemplary morality?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    All good targets, to my mind. We need more of them
    Scots, Irish and Welsh do?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    nova said:

    There's a strong argument for it not being a police matter. The sheer number of events at Downing Street IS a legitimate political scandal though, and probably should have been judged that way.
    I'd argue it has been. The Gray report and now the investigation into whether Johnson misled the house (he did).

    And the consequences will be at the ballot box...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    edited May 2022
    nova said:

    There's a strong argument for it not being a police matter. The sheer number of events at Downing Street IS a legitimate political scandal though, and probably should have been judged that way.
    Any other PM in my lifetime, if it had happened they would have properly apologised early on, possibly resigned, possibly not, but either way their apology would have left it a political issue and the police would not have been involved.

    Where I think the police should have been involved is when the parties were actually happening! At a minimum there should have been a strong word from a senior officer after the first party to say no more.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Applicant said:

    You don't think we need to look at whether these rules were right in the first place?
    That is certain, but it is a very strange defence. I suspect that if Johnson was arrested for bashing one out in a public place while shouting I am a lizard man from Planet Zog, you and Mr Rees-Smug would trot out the same defence
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,324
    Sandpit said:

    The exercises were about six weeks ago.
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599674-sweden-finland-participate-in-nato-military-exercises/

    Supersonic flying over land is usually only done for genuine operational reasons, not in training.

    IIRC, in the UK at least, supersonic requests go pretty high up the command chain, because it always results in noise complaints and bills for broken windows.
    The MoD care more about engine life (serious £££) than windows which only amount to a few grand a year. That is the main reason for the supersonic ban. They spent years trying to slow the Tornado F3 down by derating the engines with FADEC software changes in order to extend engine life and maintenance intervals.

    In the US we could (and did) go supersonic over land as often as we felt like as long at it was at FL300+.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    I've just been told that the entire executive of the Wakefield Constituency Labour Party has resigned in protest at the national Labour party breaking its own rules and refusing to allow local members to freely choose their own candidate.

    A statement is being released shortly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    That's exactly what it is about.
    Also dealing with all people - customers, for instance.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Carnyx said:

    It's a very necessary tool for any sort of organization. I've just done some refresher training as part of helpinjg out with an organization. Rather iompressed wit it, actually - very painless (vastly so, compared with myth) and some unexpected insights.
    Maybe so - but it isn't about making sure you get the best people.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, it is ongoing. It matters getting it right. I don't have an issue with seeking expertise on particular issues. But wholesale outsourcing of such an important function for a key sector is not sensible - either in financial terms or in terms of embedding knowledge at the heart of government so that it is available all the time.

    The loss of institutional memory is one of the reasons why the same failings occur over and over again. People don't know that the issues have been considered before, don't have any well of experience or wisdom to draw on, don't even realise that they need to get help. And so the same blunders recur. I have seen it so often.

    Good financial regulation matters. And it matters now in a post-Brexit world. We should make sure we get it right.
    We are still, are we not, awaiting the interrogation of Post Office management by the Inquiry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,812

    Scots, Irish and Welsh do?
    Swedes. Why the F are they wavering over NATO membership? They know they need to be a military colony under the UK nuclear umbrella, protected by England and her might - and her Tridents. Finland has seen the light and taken the plunge. If Stockholm doesn’t hurry up, there will be consequences
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Would we have done that if a builder from Burnley was the bloke getting loads of fines rather than the PM and his mates?
    We certainly should have.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    The exercises were about six weeks ago.
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599674-sweden-finland-participate-in-nato-military-exercises/

    Supersonic flying over land is usually only done for genuine operational reasons, not in training.

    IIRC, in the UK at least, supersonic requests go pretty high up the command chain, because it always results in noise complaints and bills for broken windows.
    They smashed some of mum’s favourite plates once. I don’t think she bothered making a complaint. It is super common in parts of Scotland so folk just mumble ‘arseholes’ under their breath and ignore them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited May 2022
    Applicant said:

    Maybe so - but it isn't about making sure you get the best people.
    Oh, it is. And dealing with people generally. Absolutely required to meet the law of the land, in many ways - both directly and indirectly (e.g. avoiding damaging and expensive fiascos). Recruitment, services, sales, training, staff promotion, etc.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Any other PM in my lifetime, if it had happened they would have properly apologised early on, possibly resigned, possibly not, but either way their apology would have left it a political issue and the police would not have been involved.

    Where I think the police should have been involved is when the parties were actually happening! At a minimum there should have been a strong word from a senior officer after the first party to say no more.
    The problem was, the decision the police took was to "say no more", not to say "no more"...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Leon said:

    Swedes. Why the F are they wavering over NATO membership? They know they need to be a military colony under the UK nuclear umbrella, protected by England and her might - and her Tridents. Finland has seen the light and taken the plunge. If Stockholm doesn’t hurry up, there will be consequences
    As part of the deal they are trying to see if there is a way that they can be allied to UK, but where they don't have to be allied with people who have twattish views such as yourself. Johnson has suggested he sends you to Rwanda so long as he doesn't have to go himself.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    Applicant said:

    We certainly should have.
    I am sure you can find tens of thousands of similarly sympathetic quotes from JRM questioning the law when the plebs were receiving their fines.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Swedes. Why the F are they wavering over NATO membership? They know they need to be a military colony under the UK nuclear umbrella, protected by England and her might - and her Tridents. Finland has seen the light and taken the plunge. If Stockholm doesn’t hurry up, there will be consequences
    The reigning champion of superciliousness shows that he still has it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    Leon said:

    Swedes. Why the F are they wavering over NATO membership? They know they need to be a military colony under the UK nuclear umbrella, protected by England and her might - and her Tridents. Finland has seen the light and taken the plunge. If Stockholm doesn’t hurry up, there will be consequences
    I guess because they have had decades of studied neutrality. It is part of their identity I think. Big change.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I am sure you can find tens of thousands of similarly sympathetic quotes from JRM questioning the law when the plebs were receiving their fines.
    Cabinet collective responsibility.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    eek said:


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    I've just been told that the entire executive of the Wakefield Constituency Labour Party has resigned in protest at the national Labour party breaking its own rules and refusing to allow local members to freely choose their own candidate.

    A statement is being released shortly.

    Wait, I need to get more popcorn in!

    But seriously, sounds like plan to parachute in a non-local and so another by-election may well be lost.

    Time for a punt on Mr Herdson?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    Applicant said:

    Cabinet collective responsibility.
    Questioning laws is fine.
    Questioning laws only when your boss mate is the one caught not fine.

    Not complicated.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    HYUFD said:

    Tory members love the Mogg though.

    He is the Tory Corbyn
    And look what that did to labour
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    eek said:


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    I've just been told that the entire executive of the Wakefield Constituency Labour Party has resigned in protest at the national Labour party breaking its own rules and refusing to allow local members to freely choose their own candidate.

    A statement is being released shortly.

    Sounds like an HQ parachute candidate the locals don’t want to support.
  • Nigelb said:

    I'm not a military strategist, but I guess you'd need to look at scenarios with more evenly matched opponents to draw useful conclusions.
    The main battle at the moment appears to be for the city of Severodonetsk. This is on the north bank of the Siverskyi Donets river, however the Russians are trying to encircle the city by trying to cross the river in the nearby area.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    Christ, the Labour Party's capacity for shooting itself in the foot is truly impressive.
    Attempt at Ed Balls - Andy Burnham parachute ???
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,641

    Wait, I need to get more popcorn in!

    But seriously, sounds like plan to parachute in a non-local and so another by-election may well be lost.

    Time for a punt on Mr Herdson?
    NOT a betting post:

    I think Mr Herdson has a good chance of getting more than 5% and will certainly finish top 3. I wouldn't go any further than that though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,664
    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like an HQ parachute candidate the locals don’t want to support.
    What's the tenor of the Wakefield Party, these days?

    Is it that they don't like Mr Balls if he is lined up?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    edited May 2022

    Hunt? Too Coalition era, May era, yesterday's coming man. Would be like wingnut Davis standing again after Cameron stood down, a look backwards. He's too posh, too home counties, too Cameron frankly. He'd scare the horses amongst the new support they've garnered. He might save half a dozen threatened in the blue wall. Hunt vs Starmer and we are all asleep by elevenses. Utterly unispirational.
    Way too much a retrograde step.
    Lump on.

    Never get why people push Hunt so much but then I share all those views.

    He's the Tories' Andy Burnham
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like an HQ parachute candidate the locals don’t want to support.
    Someone needs to get that sorted PDQ. And surely it shouldn't be that difficult.
    Thought; not trying to parachute in Lancastrian Andy Burnham are they.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    They smashed some of mum’s favourite plates once. I don’t think she bothered making a complaint. It is super common in parts of Scotland so folk just mumble ‘arseholes’ under their breath and ignore them.
    There is a lot of flying taking place from Valley over and near our house and I assume in Snowdonia

    Far more than usual
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Christ, the Labour Party's capacity for shooting itself in the foot is truly impressive.
    Losing Wakefield would be a black swan level narrative changer.
    But given the noncery of the outgoing Tory, even this won't hurt. Unless they run an 'alt labour' candidate........
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Someone needs to get that sorted PDQ. And surely it shouldn't be that difficult.
    Thought; not trying to parachute in Lancastrian Andy Burnham are they.
    Wouldn't he have to resign as SELNEC mayor first?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,664
    Morning all.

    I see that Ukraine is starting its first war crimes trial today:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

    Do we have previous modern precedents of war crimes trials before the said conflict is over? I'm not aware of any.

    Though even in WW2 it was known eg for POWs to be tried under the national justice system for alleged offences coming under that system rather than the military system.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    MrEd said:

    Never get why people push Hunt so much but then I share all those views.

    He's the Tories' Andy Burnham
    He's an identikit cut out and keep Tory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,078

    And look what that did to labour
    Landslide defeat in 2019 maybe but got a hung parliament in 2017 and frightened the life out of Tories and centrists
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,078
    Leon said:

    Swedes. Why the F are they wavering over NATO membership? They know they need to be a military colony under the UK nuclear umbrella, protected by England and her might - and her Tridents. Finland has seen the light and taken the plunge. If Stockholm doesn’t hurry up, there will be consequences
    Probably waiting to see if Putin now invades Finland before its NATO membership application is completed
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    HYUFD said:

    Landslide defeat in 2019 maybe but got a hung parliament in 2017 and frightened the life out of Tories and centrists
    He frightened the life of the entire country
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Applicant said:

    .

    Wouldn't he have to resign as SELNEC mayor first?
    Yeah, it won't be Burnham, Balls has said no too but might change his mind I guess
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,078

    He frightened the life of the entire country
    Not those who voted for him in 2017 and 2019
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,324

    Someone needs to get that sorted PDQ. And surely it shouldn't be that difficult.
    Thought; not trying to parachute in Lancastrian Andy Burnham are they.
    Denis McShane is coming out of retirement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    Loving the 14% who see Boris as 'principled'. (YouGov)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1524695671135211521
    More Britons see Keir Starmer as principled, competent, and trustworthy than Boris Johnson
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I see that Ukraine is starting its first war crimes trial today:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

    Do we have previous modern precedents of war crimes trials before the said conflict is over? I'm not aware of any.

    Though even in WW2 it was known eg for POWs to be tried under the national justice system for alleged offences coming under that system rather than the military system.

    Russia will just charge some random Ukrainian on a tit-for-tat basis.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Losing Wakefield would be a black swan level narrative changer.
    But given the noncery of the outgoing Tory, even this won't hurt. Unless they run an 'alt labour' candidate........
    Gut feel is might be the Tory party's Batley and Spen - expectations high they lose but they pull it out of the bag.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    New YouGov, not sure if posted
    Lab 38
    Con 33
    Ld 12
    Green 6
    2 point swings Con to Lab and green to ld
    Normal service
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    MrEd said:

    Gut feel is might be the Tory party's Batley and Spen - expectations high they lose but they pull it out of the bag.
    £49 available at 7 on Smarkets.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    HYUFD said:

    Not those who voted for him in 2017 and 2019
    I rather liked him. Promoted way above his ability, of course, and beyond any reasonable computation of public support, but he had his fans.
    Good in a gadfly role, but not PM material.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    Nigelb said:

    Loving the 14% who see Boris as 'principled'. (YouGov)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1524695671135211521
    More Britons see Keir Starmer as principled, competent, and trustworthy than Boris Johnson

    If you assume his one and only principle is do what is best for short term Boris then I would concur he is exceptionally principled.
This discussion has been closed.