I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
The testing case figures are now basically meaningless. They are so decoupled from the ONS figure as a proportion that no one is paying them any heed.
They are, but I’ve posted up thread about what the ons is actually measuring now. There is a lot of Covid about for sure, but the numbers don’t really match my experiences, and that’s in the hot spot of Wiltshire.
Hmmmm… who should we trust on this? A sophisticated, scientifically-validated survey conducted by the ONS or turbotubbs’ experience? I wonder why we even bother spending money on public health science when we could just ask turbotubbs “How do things seem to you?”
That’s a fair point. I think I am just asking what the incidence of genuinely ill people is now, rather than just those who would test positive. My colleague from Southmead who I spoke with on Friday was completely asymptomatic. The numbers that matter are those that are ill and need anti virals in the community (a real success story, apparently) and those going into hospital.
Well over half of those admitted are with Covid, not for. And a rather large number are catching in hospital as they cannot stop the spread. They are too busy to have the ability to isolate them (not their fault).
Yes, though it can often be a significant exacerbating factor for their primary disease, resulting in longer stay and worse outcomes. It is rarely completely incidental.
Admissions where covid is the primary diagnosis have been climbing too.
Latest primary diagnosis data from England acute hospitals show a further 16% increase in beds occupied where COVID is the primary diagnosis.
At 6,252 it's up 80% from the recent low on March 3rd.
My 97 year old mother-in-law has finally made it in to hospital. She had to wait 30 hours for an ambulance and, when she got to A&E had to wait another 8 hours in an ambulance before being admitted.
She does not have Covid. She has a broken leg.
Johnson can massage statistics and waffle away about Covid being on the run, but the Health Service is in a shambles and covid appears to be a massive contributing factor.
That’s awful, and I hope she is getting well looked after. The ambulance service has been degraded over the years. The BBC series has documented that very well. Frankly being efficient is great but sometimes events are going to cause a need for much greater capacity that just isn’t there. I don’t know the answer, but it’s surely money and running a service with more slack. And for sure Covid won’t be helping right now as there will be people off sick.
She was probably kept waiting for an ambulance because they were likely sitting for 8 hours or more at A&E waiting to discharge whoever they had picked up last. It does not take much of that sort of delay to create a massive tailback.
She is now in a hospital 50 miles from her home because that is where they could get her in. The local hospitals were having problems with covid admissions and staff absences.
Running the NHS on 'at least' 100% bed occupancy was bound to lead to problems. As was pointed out a considerable time ago!
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
When I take a step back and look at the state of things it is so reminiscent of 1992-7.
I think we are underestimating Labour's chances in 2024 and next month will be a bad one for the tories.
Things could not be more different today compared with 1992-97. Just look at what inflation was like back then...
It's an irony that the Conservatives in 1997 bequeathed to Labour a country in rude economic health and yet the tories took a hammering. But if you look at the polls carefully you can clearly see that Black Wednesday and Britain's exit from the ERM busted the Conservatives: the terrible events of that day when interest rates briefly went over 20% meant that the Conservatives were no longer trusted on the economy.
2022. Snap.
They're finished.
I disagree - and I really hope Labour don't get complacent, as they often were in 2010-15.
The causes of the Conservative's malaise in 92-97 were different. Black Wednesday was a totally self-inflicted mess. Sleaze seems less of an issue now. The problems facing the country are mostly external: higher fuel prices caused by the war; food prices by the war; and Covid on top.
Only Brexit was in our hands, and I don't see that as being a major cause of our problems.
In addition, some of the energy price increase can be put down to the cost of green policies, which the public are in favour of.
IMV external effects are less of a government than internal ones.
There I disagree. Sleaze is a major and ongoing issue now. Boris Johnson has in effect just become the first PM to be found guilty of a crime while in office - literally, in his own back garden. Even if he's never fined because the Met are even more cowardly and corrupt than the government, that's big. Compared to Cash for Questions, it's huuuge.
It may currently have slightly less public cut through, which is not the same thing.
You may well be right. One point though: has he been found guilty of a crime yet?
The point is that others who committed an identical offence have just been fined. That's an implicit admission that what was happening was illegal. It removes the ambiguity about 'laws' vs 'guidelines' that @Cyclefree has been explaining to us with exemplary patience.
In a way, it will now look worse if he isn't fined, as that will imply that he's above the law.
Neither obvious pathway is good for the PM now.
If he's not fined, it won't exonerate him in the public mind, and will make it look like BoJo is above the law. I'd happily bet a shiny sixpence that he does believe that, but it will be a terrible look.
If he is fined, well... he's guilty, isn't he? In such an unambiguous way that even he and his backbenchers can't just ignore.
Unless he goes for a "no criminal record, paid charge so that none of us are distracted by trivia about the past, when we need to vaccinate Ukraine."
Or some other blog of grease that I can't think of because I'm not as brazen as Big Greased Piglet.
"You wouldn't expect him to resign for a parking ticket, would you?" will I, suspect, be the line.
I would expect him to resign for lying to the House. That is the issue here.
However Mr Johnson does not believe he misled the house. Even if the evidence became compelling he would argue he was furnished with erroneous information. If that fails, Mr Johnson is far too important to have to resign anyway.
Perhaps we could respect Johnson's honesty if he said "I do not give a f*** what anyone thinks about anything I do. I have the Premiership and I mean to enjoy it"
But I am afraid that he appears to be nothing more than a narcissistic, aggrandising cur who treats everyone else with utter contempt.
It says a lot about the state of politics that his party lacks the honour and self-respect to either knock him into shape or eject him from No.10
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
Six foot trans goalkeeper who used to play men's football is now selected for England Universities' women's side
No amount of testosterone suppression alters the fact that she has an advantage over female-born goalkeepers.
Being universities, that's just trolling. I hope other teams refuse to play them. This isn't funny: a genuine footballer has been denied the opportunity to play in the team.
Yep but the Mail are on a mission at the moment and it's very unpleasant indeed.
If we are going down the line of assessing women based on physique then we're on sticky ground. I've worked alongside female colleagues who were at least 6 ft and with strong physical features, as well as pretty obviously high testosterone levels.
But there are definite changes which take place around puberty.
I'll say no more here about this. The whole topic is so mired in vitriol and hatred, not just on here I hasten to add, that it's not an appropriate place to discuss. It's nuanced and complex, whatever the binary boneheads like Piers Morgan want to tell everyone.
My 97 year old mother-in-law has finally made it in to hospital. She had to wait 30 hours for an ambulance and, when she got to A&E had to wait another 8 hours in an ambulance before being admitted.
She does not have Covid. She has a broken leg.
Johnson can massage statistics and waffle away about Covid being on the run, but the Health Service is in a shambles and covid appears to be a massive contributing factor.
Sorry to hear it. Whereabouts in the country?
No two ways about it, covid has left the NHS in a mess, and it is not yet over for us, even if the world outside has switched to ignore.
Not that other sectors are in any better shape, the courts, the schools, the universities etc.
She is in Shropshire... or she was. The only hospital that could accept her is somewhere near Birmingham
Best wishes. A broken leg at that age can be quite nasty. I hope she is well looked after.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
Not true. I only respond when he posts something outrageous. I don't reply to the vast majority of his posts just as I don't to everyone one else. When you do respond to him he comes back time and time again and gets even more outrageous. Why should we let him get away with that. None of us would for anyone else on this site.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
My 97 year old mother-in-law has finally made it in to hospital. She had to wait 30 hours for an ambulance and, when she got to A&E had to wait another 8 hours in an ambulance before being admitted.
She does not have Covid. She has a broken leg.
Johnson can massage statistics and waffle away about Covid being on the run, but the Health Service is in a shambles and covid appears to be a massive contributing factor.
That’s awful, and I hope she is getting well looked after. The ambulance service has been degraded over the years. The BBC series has documented that very well. Frankly being efficient is great but sometimes events are going to cause a need for much greater capacity that just isn’t there. I don’t know the answer, but it’s surely money and running a service with more slack. And for sure Covid won’t be helping right now as there will be people off sick.
She was probably kept waiting for an ambulance because they were likely sitting for 8 hours or more at A&E waiting to discharge whoever they had picked up last. It does not take much of that sort of delay to create a massive tailback.
She is now in a hospital 50 miles from her home because that is where they could get her in. The local hospitals were having problems with covid admissions and staff absences.
Running the NHS on 'at least' 100% bed occupancy was bound to lead to problems. As was pointed out a considerable time ago!
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
Inaction on climate change is something of a myth, though, no? The UK is doing massive amounts on climate change. Billions and billions and billions are being spent on transitioning away from carbon, at quite astonishing speed.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
Not true. I only respond when he posts something outrageous. I don't reply to the vast majority of his posts just as I don't to everyone one else. When you do respond to him he comes back time and time again and gets even more outrageous. Why should we let him get away with that. None of us would for anyone else on this site.
No, you go back again and again. Even carrying it onto new threads when I have long let it go.
Six foot trans goalkeeper who used to play men's football is now selected for England Universities' women's side
No amount of testosterone suppression alters the fact that she has an advantage over female-born goalkeepers.
Being universities, that's just trolling. I hope other teams refuse to play them. This isn't funny: a genuine footballer has been denied the opportunity to play in the team.
Yep but the Mail are on a mission at the moment and it's very unpleasant indeed.
If we are going down the line of assessing women based on physique then we're on sticky ground. I've worked alongside female colleagues who were at least 6 ft and with strong physical features, as well as pretty obviously high testosterone levels.
But there are definite changes which take place around puberty.
I'll say no more here about this. The whole topic is so mired in vitriol and hatred, not just on here I hasten to add, that it's not an appropriate place to discuss. It's nuanced and complex, whatever the binary boneheads like Piers Morgan want to tell everyone.
A thread laying out some evidence that mass murder was planned for.
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510168073831165956 - Russia planned to easy-take Kyiv within 3 days, following by capitulation of Ukraine; - Russian army units were followed by thousands of riot police; - Russian army purchased 45,000 body bags and brought mobile crematories; - I am sure they planned mass executions for Ukraine.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
I agree. HYUFD's 'crime' in the eyes of other tories is that he's honest.
I wouldn't vote for him but I can respect his transparent and transactional view of politics. I respect absolutely nothing about any other tory on here.
But... he's not honest. He makes ridiculous and provably false claims all the time, and THEN he lies about what he said when he gets shown to be wrong.
“ He makes ridiculous and provably false claims all the time “
I don’t agree with you Farooq. Truth is thats only some of the time. Ace is right, when HY says it’s always been the position of the Tory party to protect property ownership and wealth, that’s where it’s policies are geared to right now so screwing those in work and students to protect the oldies and family inheritance, he is being refreshingly candid.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
No. Because their demands are wholly unrealistic.
Saying "I oppose climate change" is like saying "I support motherhood." Governments have to weigh up competing interests.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
If you also persuade or coerce 10 other people into not consuming, that has 11 times the effect. It's that simple.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
In your view we're not doing enough. It's a shame these protestors may actually cause more pollution as people drive around trying to find fuel, or queue to get it.
I agree about flying. I have not flown in ?ten? years. Can you say the same?
(With regards to flying, I'd put fuel duty on all flights. AFAIAA that needs international agreement, though.)
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
“ I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. “
But surely these crisis have crept up on us because we didn’t do as they argue and transform quickly enough, take seriously energy security quickly enough. So is it right for you to foul mouth scapegoat them ?
My 97 year old mother-in-law has finally made it in to hospital. She had to wait 30 hours for an ambulance and, when she got to A&E had to wait another 8 hours in an ambulance before being admitted.
She does not have Covid. She has a broken leg.
Johnson can massage statistics and waffle away about Covid being on the run, but the Health Service is in a shambles and covid appears to be a massive contributing factor.
That’s awful, and I hope she is getting well looked after. The ambulance service has been degraded over the years. The BBC series has documented that very well. Frankly being efficient is great but sometimes events are going to cause a need for much greater capacity that just isn’t there. I don’t know the answer, but it’s surely money and running a service with more slack. And for sure Covid won’t be helping right now as there will be people off sick.
She was probably kept waiting for an ambulance because they were likely sitting for 8 hours or more at A&E waiting to discharge whoever they had picked up last. It does not take much of that sort of delay to create a massive tailback.
She is now in a hospital 50 miles from her home because that is where they could get her in. The local hospitals were having problems with covid admissions and staff absences.
Running the NHS on 'at least' 100% bed occupancy was bound to lead to problems. As was pointed out a considerable time ago!
"at least' 100% bed occupancy"
Is bed-sharing a new policy?
Hot bedding is normal.
It's even possible to have three in a bed. One discharged early morning, then a daycase, then an evening admission. Pretty busy for the ward staff, and not ideal for cross infection.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
The testing case figures are now basically meaningless. They are so decoupled from the ONS figure as a proportion that no one is paying them any heed.
They are, but I’ve posted up thread about what the ons is actually measuring now. There is a lot of Covid about for sure, but the numbers don’t really match my experiences, and that’s in the hot spot of Wiltshire.
Hmmmm… who should we trust on this? A sophisticated, scientifically-validated survey conducted by the ONS or turbotubbs’ experience? I wonder why we even bother spending money on public health science when we could just ask turbotubbs “How do things seem to you?”
That’s a fair point. I think I am just asking what the incidence of genuinely ill people is now, rather than just those who would test positive. My colleague from Southmead who I spoke with on Friday was completely asymptomatic. The numbers that matter are those that are ill and need anti virals in the community (a real success story, apparently) and those going into hospital.
There has been a substantial disconnection between the numbers in hospital and the MV bed numbers - while the later are increasing, they are nowhere near the ratio they were in previously.
And what proportion of those chose not to have the protection of the free vaccinations and boosters?
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
The environment is a shared resource. Your actions affect my environment, and mine yours. The cult of individualism has no answer to this question.
So you'll be switching off your PC, stop blogging and save all that electricity then ?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
If you also persuade or coerce 10 other people into not consuming, that has 11 times the effect. It's that simple.
Funny how it's other people have to make the sacrifices and not you.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
“ I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. “
But surely these crisis have crept up on us because we didn’t do as they argue and transform quickly enough, take seriously energy security quickly enough. So is it right for you to foul mouth scapegoat them ?
That's b/s though. I have rarely heard these environmentalists talk about energy security - it's always about reducing consumption. And I think we've transformed quicker than many were asking for a few years ago. And there are real limits to how fast the government can go.
So yes, it is alright for me to foulmouth people who think that hurting other people, and damaging property, is a good thing.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
As opposed to you who would hand Scotland to the Nationalists on a plate and grant them indyref2 until they get the result they want I presume. While also doing sod all to defend the Falklands again which you would also hand back to Argentina on a plate. You are an extreme libertarian on many issues whose posts I often vehemently disagree with, I don't try and get you banned.
I already am an elected representative, even if a relatively minor one.
I would also like you to show any post where I advocated beating up old ladies. We have nuclear weapons as a last resort to defend the UK and British territory, I never advocated their use as a first resort but we have them for reasons of defence the question being at what stage would they ever be used for that
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
The question, on the economic front, (for me) is how much they are spending from their foreign currency reserves to hold the rouble up.
We know, from the historic instances of the UK government attempting this, post WWII, that such endeavours melt the largest piles of money very, very rapidly.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
The testing case figures are now basically meaningless. They are so decoupled from the ONS figure as a proportion that no one is paying them any heed.
They are, but I’ve posted up thread about what the ons is actually measuring now. There is a lot of Covid about for sure, but the numbers don’t really match my experiences, and that’s in the hot spot of Wiltshire.
Hmmmm… who should we trust on this? A sophisticated, scientifically-validated survey conducted by the ONS or turbotubbs’ experience? I wonder why we even bother spending money on public health science when we could just ask turbotubbs “How do things seem to you?”
That’s a fair point. I think I am just asking what the incidence of genuinely ill people is now, rather than just those who would test positive. My colleague from Southmead who I spoke with on Friday was completely asymptomatic. The numbers that matter are those that are ill and need anti virals in the community (a real success story, apparently) and those going into hospital.
There has been a substantial disconnection between the numbers in hospital and the MV bed numbers - while the later are increasing, they are nowhere near the ratio they were in previously.
And what proportion of those chose not to have the protection of the free vaccinations and boosters?
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
The environment is a shared resource. Your actions affect my environment, and mine yours. The cult of individualism has no answer to this question.
So you'll be switching off your PC, stop blogging and save all that electricity then ?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
My 97 year old mother-in-law has finally made it in to hospital. She had to wait 30 hours for an ambulance and, when she got to A&E had to wait another 8 hours in an ambulance before being admitted.
She does not have Covid. She has a broken leg.
Johnson can massage statistics and waffle away about Covid being on the run, but the Health Service is in a shambles and covid appears to be a massive contributing factor.
That’s awful, and I hope she is getting well looked after. The ambulance service has been degraded over the years. The BBC series has documented that very well. Frankly being efficient is great but sometimes events are going to cause a need for much greater capacity that just isn’t there. I don’t know the answer, but it’s surely money and running a service with more slack. And for sure Covid won’t be helping right now as there will be people off sick.
She was probably kept waiting for an ambulance because they were likely sitting for 8 hours or more at A&E waiting to discharge whoever they had picked up last. It does not take much of that sort of delay to create a massive tailback.
She is now in a hospital 50 miles from her home because that is where they could get her in. The local hospitals were having problems with covid admissions and staff absences.
Running the NHS on 'at least' 100% bed occupancy was bound to lead to problems. As was pointed out a considerable time ago!
"at least' 100% bed occupancy"
Is bed-sharing a new policy?
Hot bedding is normal.
It's even possible to have three in a bed. One discharged early morning, then a daycase, then an evening admission. Pretty busy for the ward staff, and not ideal for cross infection.
' not ideal for cross infection' Quite. As was said when I was somewhat concerned with these things 25 years ago.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
If you also persuade or coerce 10 other people into not consuming, that has 11 times the effect. It's that simple.
Funny how it's other people have to make the sacrifices and not you.
"Also" is a word quite commonly understood by English speakers.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Why ?
Apart from the economic front, there is the issue of international dependencies.
Putin has long tried to make large chunks of the Russian economy autarkic. There was good article (trying to find it) about the extent to which this has failed, due to corruption.
Essentially, it is very hard to eliminate foreign comments in a supply chain. It is much easier and cheaper to setup a factory screw-drivering together foreign components and declare victory.
It has been reported, already, that the main Russian tank factory has shut down. Which means that the Russian army will be replacing the tanks it is losing from the various stockpiles. Which are old and not in the best of shape.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
If you want to impact the climate just dont consume it;s that simple.
The environment is a shared resource. Your actions affect my environment, and mine yours. The cult of individualism has no answer to this question.
So you'll be switching off your PC, stop blogging and save all that electricity then ?
No, I won't. That was easy, got another?
Ive got loads, but I just cant be arsed.
No, I get that. You wouldn't have come out with such a low-quality reply if you were. I'd go as far as to say you completely missed the point. Individual choices can never save the commons. Suggesting that I make an individual choice to save the commons shows you haven't yet understood the point, or somehow disagree. I'd be interested* to know which it was.
Ive been on PB too long to get sucked in to twat arguments. You have your vie and I have mine and I seriously doubt we'll agree.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Yes, everyone knows who @Charles is. The issue aiui was naming an uncle, which was a bit off, even if anyone could have worked it out for themselves. It is a shame @Charles has gone, with his expert knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and, although not to everyone's taste, anecdotes about his ancestors but there it is.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
You and I fail to agree on many things but doxing you is just wrong
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
It was not actually me originally who raised concerns about the Guardian publishing an article by an Argentine Minister referring to the Falklands throughout as 'Las Malvinas' but Carlotta.
So I suppose you are now going to accuse Carlotta of Fascism too?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
There are some unsavoury bitter characters here that wouldn’t dare be so impertinent to you irl in case you gave them the Will Smith treatment. Don’t let them get you down. Your views on some matters are insightful and on others utterly bonkers, such is life’s rich tapestry.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
It was not actually me originally who raised concerns about the Guardian publishing an article by an Argentine Minister referring to the Falklands throughout as 'Las Malvinas' but Carlotta.
So I suppose you are now going to accuse Carlotta of Fascism too?
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Why ?
Finger in the air. War costs, ooh, lots. And the Russian economy is an unstable kleptocracy. Therefore can Russia afford to prosecute this war for a long time or a short time? I would err on the side of the latter. Therefore months. If anyone can fill in with actual numbers please feel free!
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Yes, everyone knows who @Charles is. The issue aiui was naming an uncle, which was a bit off, even if anyone could have worked it out for themselves. It is a shame @Charles has gone, with his expert knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and, although not to everyone's taste, anecdotes about his ancestors but there it is.
Not me, guv, I never named an uncle, I just said "some cousins."
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
The things which will have a big impact sit outside the UK - such as China and India using coal or he general US profligacy with energy. The UK is simply at the margins. Personally I think improving our local environment = stop plastics, clean rivers more woodlands - are of more interest than CC. It sits within our control.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
“ I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. “
But surely these crisis have crept up on us because we didn’t do as they argue and transform quickly enough, take seriously energy security quickly enough. So is it right for you to foul mouth scapegoat them ?
That's b/s though. I have rarely heard these environmentalists talk about energy security - it's always about reducing consumption. And I think we've transformed quicker than many were asking for a few years ago. And there are real limits to how fast the government can go.
So yes, it is alright for me to foulmouth people who think that hurting other people, and damaging property, is a good thing.
In fact, they're doing their cause harm.
But for many years we have had the rich energy establishment active in “the lobby” throughout western democracies, buying influencing, buying politicians and their votes, not always as obviously like Schroeder. And decision making on change, that not only protects earths eco system but helps voters bills in long run too, has not just been very slow, but in terms of energy security we have got in bed with China, Russia. And other iffy types.
And the Eco activists very little influence in that lobby. But, here, for all the world to read and for the archives, you are telling us they are the traitors, they are Putin’s self serving idiots. 🤔
I don’t think you are 100% right. We will just have to politely agree to disagree on this one. 😕
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Yes, everyone knows who @Charles is. The issue aiui was naming an uncle, which was a bit off, even if anyone could have worked it out for themselves. It is a shame @Charles has gone, with his expert knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and, although not to everyone's taste, anecdotes about his ancestors but there it is.
I always got the impression that Charles was a combination of mildly embarrassed and tongue in cheek about his ancestry. He could have remained silent, but then, it was a part of who he was he could nothing about.
I miss him and if he lurks, very much hope he makes a reappearance. The site is poorer for his departure.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
It isn't a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Why ?
Apart from the economic front, there is the issue of international dependencies.
Putin has long tried to make large chunks of the Russian economy autarkic. There was good article (trying to find it) about the extent to which this has failed, due to corruption.
Essentially, it is very hard to eliminate foreign comments in a supply chain. It is much easier and cheaper to setup a factory screw-drivering together foreign components and declare victory.
It has been reported, already, that the main Russian tank factory has shut down. Which means that the Russian army will be replacing the tanks it is losing from the various stockpiles. Which are old and not in the best of shape.
The war will do massive damage to their economy, sure. But it’s entirely conceivable that they could sustain a lower pace of operations (having abandoned several fronts), for quite a long time. While oil revenues hold up they likely don’t have an existential economic problem, and finding other sources (China etc) for imports isn’t impossible.
That is why supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms and resources is essential. A eventual ceasefire a year or two down the road, with Russia having taken the south including Mariupol and held it, would be a disastrous result for Ukraine and a very dangerous one for the west.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
The irony is that at “new” energy prices, the govt could spank whopping high guaranteed offtake prices on tidal and mass offshore wind and the private sector would do the rest. Come on Tories, unleash the power of the private sector and get this problem solved.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
I think you are being to kind OKC. His views aren't new and I haven't seen Fascism given as a symptom of COVID.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Obviously the American tanks will help with the offensive in the south and east but do we have any idea how many serviceable tanks the Ukrainians have captured? I'm also skeptical of whether they have the air cover to launch major offensives which will be much more difficult than recovering ground where the Russians have retreated.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
In the case of the Falklands, that is what the people who live there call them.
Using "someone else's name for them" is simply insulting to those that live there.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
You have consistently supported tidal lagoons and I believe their time has come
There are plans for one in our area and I hope, if anything about this crises is positive, they are developed
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
We need to understand why someone might feel free to say those things and why there are thousands out there who will vote for it. If you stop at outrage you end up playing Clinton to their Trump.
I agree. Which is why I don't think he should be dumped from the site. But I do think we are within our rights to treat him with the contempt he deserves. Many of us have tried arguing with him. Indeed at an earlier stage I engaged with him a lot as I had previously thought him a reasonable contributor. But it should be apparent to everyone by now he has no interest in actually developing his views as a result of debate. So all we can do is continue to point out how obscene they are.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
Not true. I only respond when he posts something outrageous. I don't reply to the vast majority of his posts just as I don't to everyone one else. When you do respond to him he comes back time and time again and gets even more outrageous. Why should we let him get away with that. None of us would for anyone else on this site.
No, you go back again and again. Even carrying it onto new threads when I have long let it go.
I do occasionally because you never give up and I'm not letting you off for posting this bollocks. You now know what it is like for the rest of us. I think I have done it 3 times to make a point. And I didn't bring it up this morning.
What would be the purpose of the government paying for Covid tests?
The money would be better spent on expanding the number of spaces and bursaries for training nurses and doctors so that we had more NHS staff in future.
And, anyone who hasn't had all their vaccine doses - get vaccinated.
On topic, visited London yesterday to do the tourist bit with some American friends. I was surprised to see how few people were masked on the tube. I had thought it was still a legal requirement and so had gone prepared. When did Khan lift his rules - or are they just being ignored on a wide level?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
There are some unsavoury bitter characters here that wouldn’t dare be so impertinent to you irl in case you gave them the Will Smith treatment. Don’t let them get you down. Your views on some matters are insightful and on others utterly bonkers, such is life’s rich tapestry.
Most rich tapestries are, of course, inherited. Anyone wanting to get onto the rich tapestry ladder is stuffed unless they have the right parents.
59% of voters think inheritance tax is unfair and I have not even advocated for its abolition
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
I agree. HYUFD's 'crime' in the eyes of other tories is that he's honest.
I wouldn't vote for him but I can respect his transparent and transactional view of politics. I respect absolutely nothing about any other tory on here.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Why ?
Apart from the economic front, there is the issue of international dependencies.
Putin has long tried to make large chunks of the Russian economy autarkic. There was good article (trying to find it) about the extent to which this has failed, due to corruption.
Essentially, it is very hard to eliminate foreign comments in a supply chain. It is much easier and cheaper to setup a factory screw-drivering together foreign components and declare victory.
It has been reported, already, that the main Russian tank factory has shut down. Which means that the Russian army will be replacing the tanks it is losing from the various stockpiles. Which are old and not in the best of shape.
The war will do massive damage to their economy, sure. But it’s entirely conceivable that they could sustain a lower pace of operations (having abandoned several fronts), for quite a long time. While oil revenues hold up they likely don’t have an existential economic problem, and finding other sources (China etc) for imports isn’t impossible.
That is why supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms and resources is essential. A eventual ceasefire a year or two down the road, with Russia having taken the south including Mariupol and held it, would be a disastrous result for Ukraine and a very dangerous one for the west.
Why get excited ?
A country with an economy just slightly bigger than Spain's has invaded its neighbour. It's using its circa 4% of world GDP to threaten economic consequences on countries with over 50% of world GDP.
Meanwhile it has trashed the prospects of its main money earners - energy, arms and metals - and is on its way to an unhappy economic stagnation. Add in its military reputation has imploded and politically it is heading to be a vassal of China and it is a country that needs a serious rethink.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
I think you are being to kind OKC. His views aren't new and I haven't seen Fascism given as a symptom of COVID.
If all you can do is spend your days accusing me of Fascism, that says more about you than me
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
Kyiv is a bit different though, there isn't an English name for it so we really should be using the Ukrainian word, not the Russian. Similarly Lviv and Odesa rather than Lvov and Odessa. Similarly we should use Brugge and Ieper rather than Bruges and Ieper.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
Not me Guv.
The assumption seemed to be that the Guardian changed it because they thought the term Falklands would be more appropriate in a British newspaper, and, as you write, that people living on those islands in the South Atlantic refer to themselves as Falkland Islanders.
But as I say, that was what appeared to be the case.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
We need to understand why someone might feel free to say those things and why there are thousands out there who will vote for it. If you stop at outrage you end up playing Clinton to their Trump.
I agree. Which is why I don't think he should be dumped from the site. But I do think we are within our rights to treat him with the contempt he deserves. Many of us have tried arguing with him. Indeed at an earlier stage I engaged with him a lot as I had previously thought him a reasonable contributor. But it should be apparent to everyone by now he has now interest in actually developing his views as a result of debate. So all we can do is continue to point out how obscene they are.
Excellent post, although I would say that wouldn't I.
I do feel guilty sometimes when it hijacks the thread.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Yes, everyone knows who @Charles is. The issue aiui was naming an uncle, which was a bit off, even if anyone could have worked it out for themselves. It is a shame @Charles has gone, with his expert knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and, although not to everyone's taste, anecdotes about his ancestors but there it is.
I always got the impression that Charles was a combination of mildly embarrassed and tongue in cheek about his ancestry. He could have remained silent, but then, it was a part of who he was he could nothing about.
I miss him and if he lurks, very much hope he makes a reappearance. The site is poorer for his departure.
Hundreds of millions poorer, probably.... 😉
I have no idea who Charles is! I always assumed he was a comic creation, nobody could be that posh in real life. The site is certainly poorer in his absence.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
No I don't. However if there was rioting in Scotland by Scottish Nationalists after a UK government refusal of an indyref2 and Sturgeon tried to hold a wildcat referendum then riot police would be used to control it exactly as they were in Spain when the Catalan government held an unauthorised referendum.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
Not me Guv.
The assumption seemed to be that the Guardian changed it because they thought the term Falklands would be more appropriate in a British newspaper, and, as you write, that people living on those islands in the South Atlantic refer to themselves as Falkland Islanders.
But as I say, that was what appeared to be the case.
I know why they got in a muddle. As do most people here.
Because they see the Falkland Islanders as lower on the "rights ladder" than Chinese people or First Australians or Indians. Probably lower than Argentinians.
Politically I feel there's a sense of the 70's rather than the 90's - a sense of everything being a bit rubbish, costs going up etc. From that we got Thatcher, so we will see what we get from this.
I respect @HYUFD 's contributions because they reflect the thinking of an important part of Conservative Party thought, not much articulated in these forums. Not the thinking of every Tory but nevertheless essential to that party's electoral success.
While on the topic of pile-ons. If @Heathener is a Russian bot, she is a remarkably off-message one
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
It isn't a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
It is a public website. What a weird thing to say. Anyone, anywhere* in the world, can read the comments posted to this website.
* Some corporate firewalls may block the site because the domain name includes "betting", and perhaps we're not approved by the Chinese Communist Party, but those exceptions aside.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Yes, and this is a mystery of human behaviour: the more of a hellhole a particular country is, the more its inhabitants seem keen to bring more children into it. Whereas where the living is good, people can't be bothered. Intuitively, you'd think the reverse would be true. And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
Comments
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Admissions where covid is the primary diagnosis have been climbing too.
Latest primary diagnosis data from England acute hospitals show a further 16% increase in beds occupied where COVID is the primary diagnosis.
At 6,252 it's up 80% from the recent low on March 3rd.
1/ https://t.co/GgTIt4pIJE
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
But I am afraid that he appears to be nothing more than a narcissistic, aggrandising cur who treats everyone else with utter contempt.
It says a lot about the state of politics that his party lacks the honour and self-respect to either knock him into shape or eject him from No.10
Is bed-sharing a new policy?
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510168073831165956
- Russia planned to easy-take Kyiv within 3 days, following by capitulation of Ukraine;
- Russian army units were followed by thousands of riot police;
- Russian army purchased 45,000 body bags and brought mobile crematories;
- I am sure they planned mass executions for Ukraine.
I don’t agree with you Farooq. Truth is thats only some of the time. Ace is right, when HY says it’s always been the position of the Tory party to protect property ownership and wealth, that’s where it’s policies are geared to right now so screwing those in work and students to protect the oldies and family inheritance, he is being refreshingly candid.
Saying "I oppose climate change" is like saying "I support motherhood." Governments have to weigh up competing interests.
I agree about flying. I have not flown in ?ten? years. Can you say the same?
(With regards to flying, I'd put fuel duty on all flights. AFAIAA that needs international agreement, though.)
But surely these crisis have crept up on us because we didn’t do as they argue and transform quickly enough, take seriously energy security quickly enough. So is it right for you to foul mouth scapegoat them ?
It's even possible to have three in a bed. One discharged early morning, then a daycase, then an evening admission. Pretty busy for the ward staff, and not ideal for cross infection.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044522/20211231_OS_Daily_Omicron_Overview.pdf
25% of those hospitalised with Omicron in England, at the end of last year, were completely unvaccinated.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
So yes, it is alright for me to foulmouth people who think that hurting other people, and damaging property, is a good thing.
In fact, they're doing their cause harm.
We know, from the historic instances of the UK government attempting this, post WWII, that such endeavours melt the largest piles of money very, very rapidly.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
Because 4.2% would seem like an exaggeration in my experience.
Quite. As was said when I was somewhat concerned with these things 25 years ago.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
Putin has long tried to make large chunks of the Russian economy autarkic. There was good article (trying to find it) about the extent to which this has failed, due to corruption.
Essentially, it is very hard to eliminate foreign comments in a supply chain. It is much easier and cheaper to setup a factory screw-drivering together foreign components and declare victory.
It has been reported, already, that the main Russian tank factory has shut down. Which means that the Russian army will be replacing the tanks it is losing from the various stockpiles. Which are old and not in the best of shape.
So I suppose you are now going to accuse Carlotta of Fascism too?
War costs, ooh, lots.
And the Russian economy is an unstable kleptocracy.
Therefore can Russia afford to prosecute this war for a long time or a short time? I would err on the side of the latter.
Therefore months.
If anyone can fill in with actual numbers please feel free!
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
Covid tests are not free.
They are either paid for by the user of paid for through taxation.
And the Eco activists very little influence in that lobby. But, here, for all the world to read and for the archives, you are telling us they are the traitors, they are Putin’s self serving idiots. 🤔
I don’t think you are 100% right. We will just have to politely agree to disagree on this one. 😕
I miss him and if he lurks, very much hope he makes a reappearance. The site is poorer for his departure.
Hundreds of millions poorer, probably.... 😉
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
But it’s entirely conceivable that they could sustain a lower pace of operations (having abandoned several fronts), for quite a long time.
While oil revenues hold up they likely don’t have an existential economic problem, and finding other sources (China etc) for imports isn’t impossible.
That is why supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms and resources is essential.
A eventual ceasefire a year or two down the road, with Russia having taken the south including Mariupol and held it, would be a disastrous result for Ukraine and a very dangerous one for the west.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen#Demographics
Using "someone else's name for them" is simply insulting to those that live there.
There are plans for one in our area and I hope, if anything about this crises is positive, they are developed
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
The money would be better spent on expanding the number of spaces and bursaries for training nurses and doctors so that we had more NHS staff in future.
And, anyone who hasn't had all their vaccine doses - get vaccinated.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/03/19/inheritance-tax-most-unfair
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
A country with an economy just slightly bigger than Spain's has invaded its neighbour. It's using its circa 4% of world GDP to threaten economic consequences on countries with over 50% of world GDP.
Meanwhile it has trashed the prospects of its main money earners - energy, arms and metals - and is on its way to an unhappy economic stagnation. Add in its military reputation has imploded and politically it is heading to be a vassal of China and it is a country that needs a serious rethink.
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/
The assumption seemed to be that the Guardian changed it because they thought the term Falklands would be more appropriate in a British newspaper, and, as you write, that people living on those islands in the South Atlantic refer to themselves as Falkland Islanders.
But as I say, that was what appeared to be the case.
I do feel guilty sometimes when it hijacks the thread.
That is just reality.
Because they see the Falkland Islanders as lower on the "rights ladder" than Chinese people or First Australians or Indians. Probably lower than Argentinians.
While on the topic of pile-ons. If @Heathener is a Russian bot, she is a remarkably off-message one
* Some corporate firewalls may block the site because the domain name includes "betting", and perhaps we're not approved by the Chinese Communist Party, but those exceptions aside.
And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.