I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
Not true. I only respond when he posts something outrageous. I don't reply to the vast majority of his posts just as I don't to everyone one else. When you do respond to him he comes back time and time again and gets even more outrageous. Why should we let him get away with that. None of us would for anyone else on this site.
No, you go back again and again. Even carrying it onto new threads when I have long let it go.
I do occasionally because you never give up and I'm not letting you off for posting this bollocks. You now know what it is like for the rest of us. I think I have done it 3 times to make a point. And I didn't bring it up this morning.
No you do it relentlessly and it is not even a discussion of issues or polling anymore which might at least be vaguely interesting.
From your side it is increasingly just a personal vendetta against me, as shown by your obsessive posts over the last 24 hours hurling allegations of Fascism at me
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum Everyone who now calls for Zelensky to make "territorial concessions' in exchange for a cease fire should remember what this will actually mean: tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians will die.
I respect @HYUFD 's contributions because they reflect the thinking of an important part of Conservative Party thought, not much articulated in these forums. Not the thinking of every Tory but nevertheless essential to that party's electoral success.
While on the topic of pile-ons. If @Heathener is a Russian bot, she is a remarkably off-message one
A couple of things
- Doxing people is always wrong. All the justifications - "But in this case it is right..." are horseshit - Anyone using a VPN that terminates with a fixed IP address belonging to a compromised PC has a very strange and very worrying security problem. They should change their VPN immediately, and should wipe their computer and start again from a bare operating system install.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
I agree. HYUFD's 'crime' in the eyes of other tories is that he's honest.
I wouldn't vote for him but I can respect his transparent and transactional view of politics. I respect absolutely nothing about any other tory on here.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
It is perfectly legitimate to challenge anyone's views and by the number of posters on here criticising elements of @HYUFD posts, then it is not bullying nor should he be left alone unchallenged
Sophie Ridge on Sky has just said the EU have spent 18 billion euros since 24th Feb on buying Russian gas and the the rouble has recovered all of its value because of that
I just do not know how this can be addressed short of cutting off Russian gas supplies, which to be fair is not practical
We have to address reducing fuel consumption. Not ideal, but there's no other short term way to get off Russian oil and gas. Also saves money of course.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
If there were riots by Nationalists then of course riot police would have to be used and arrests made as happened in Spain with Catalan Nationalists. Otherwise they would have in effect lost control of Scotland and Sturgeon would try and force through the result, maybe even declaring UDI, even if the UK government ignored it
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Yes, and this is a mystery of human behaviour: the more of a hellhole a particular country is, the more its inhabitants seem keen to bring more children into it. Whereas where the living is good, people can't be bothered. Intuitively, you'd think the reverse would be true. And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
Two questions. 1. What is the child survival rate to 15? 2. How many competent Health Visitors/Family Planning nurses do they have?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
I agree. HYUFD's 'crime' in the eyes of other tories is that he's honest.
I wouldn't vote for him but I can respect his transparent and transactional view of politics. I respect absolutely nothing about any other tory on here.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
On Bucha: after my last meeting in Ukraine I was walking to the car when a senior Ukrainian security official, flanked by two General Officers grabbed my arm and said "by the way; the Russians have moved a unit onto the Belarusian axis who will lead the killings." 1/4.
Anyone saying that Bucha is the result of brutalisation or rogue behaviour is wrong. This was the plan. It was pre-meditated. It is consistent with Russian methods in Chechnya. And if the Russian military had been more successful there would have been many more towns like it. 2/4
This context - in which the Ukrainians knew that there were troops preparing to perpetrate acts like this, with the Kremlin describing Ukrainian identity as an accident of history - also explains why Ukrainian resistence has been so fierce. They see the stakes as existential. 3/4
People calling for a specific response to Bucha are taking an atrocity out of its context. The response should be to ensure that Ukrainians can defeat the invasion through steady and systemic assistance. The volume and speed of kit delivered matters. 4/4
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
In the case of the Falklands, that is what the people who live there call them.
Using "someone else's name for them" is simply insulting to those that live there.
Not if the person writing the article is an Argentinian. He will use his name for places. The Guardian referred to the Falklands, the Argentinian journalist referred to the Maldives. I wouldn't expect anything different and even if you disagree that is no excuse for censorship.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
It isn't a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
‘It isn’t a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.’
Do you consider this drivel before you post it? Not public? Because of some arbitrary definition you’ve just dreamed up? You’re bonkers.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
I agree. HYUFD's 'crime' in the eyes of other tories is that he's honest.
I wouldn't vote for him but I can respect his transparent and transactional view of politics. I respect absolutely nothing about any other tory on here.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Sophie Ridge on Sky has just said the EU have spent 18 billion euros since 24th Feb on buying Russian gas and the the rouble has recovered all of its value because of that
I just do not know how this can be addressed short of cutting off Russian gas supplies, which to be fair is not practical
We have to address reducing fuel consumption. Not ideal, but there's no other short term way to get off Russian oil and gas. Also saves money of course.
This crisis will result in a massive change in the way we live, out attitude to green energy and importantly how we transition over the next 20 years, and of course Russia being turned into a pariah state
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
It wouldn't need to be the UK government - there are plenty of Scots more than happy to take ScotGov to the Scottish Courts. But Sturgeon won't try a wildcat referendum. Who ever comes after her might (and it won't be Forbes, who wouldn't either).
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
In the case of the Falklands, that is what the people who live there call them.
Using "someone else's name for them" is simply insulting to those that live there.
The Guardian referred to the Falklands, the Argentinian journalist referred to the Maldives.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Yes, and this is a mystery of human behaviour: the more of a hellhole a particular country is, the more its inhabitants seem keen to bring more children into it. Whereas where the living is good, people can't be bothered. Intuitively, you'd think the reverse would be true. And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
Even putting aside the polite GCSE geography reasons for it (economic security, female education, etc), isn't it actually really rather simple and obvious?
People really, really like having sex, and if you have sex a lot (and don't have contraception) then you will end up with lots of babies. If you have access to contraception then you can have sex without babies, which is just as well as babies get in the way of having more sex.
QED
The confusing part is why some people still have babies.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
I have asked this before @MarqueeMark, would you be willing write thread on the topic. I am really interested as I know are others.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
It isn't a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
‘It isn’t a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.’
Do you consider this drivel before you post it? Not public? Because of some arbitrary definition you’ve just dreamed up? You’re bonkers.
Covid hospitalisations are running at half last January's peak and probably still increasing. Deaths are a lagging indicator, but Scotland which started the current wave earlier is seeing deaths at half its lower than England January 2021 peak. It's a serious situation. However the number of infections is massively greater than then due to no lockdown being in place now. The hospitalisation rates and IFRs are much lower thanks to vaccines.
Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum Everyone who now calls for Zelensky to make "territorial concessions' in exchange for a cease fire should remember what this will actually mean: tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians will die.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Yes, and this is a mystery of human behaviour: the more of a hellhole a particular country is, the more its inhabitants seem keen to bring more children into it. Whereas where the living is good, people can't be bothered. Intuitively, you'd think the reverse would be true. And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
Even putting aside the polite GCSE geography reasons for it (economic security, female education, etc), isn't it actually really rather simple and obvious?
People really, really like having sex, and if you have sex a lot (and don't have contraception) then you will end up with lots of babies. If you have access to contraception then you can have sex without babies, which is just as well as babies get in the way of having more sex.
QED
The confusing part is why some people still have babies.
Politically I feel there's a sense of the 70's rather than the 90's - a sense of everything being a bit rubbish, costs going up etc. From that we got Thatcher, so we will see what we get from this.
It's an interesting question, and a useful analogy. The 1970s marked the point at which the post-war economic model started to fail. Arguably the current period marks the point at which the Thatcherite economic model's failures are becoming manifest. I suspect that the answer to these failings won't me 'more Thatcherism', but it won't be a return to post-war state socialism either. There is one quick way of solving some of our economic woes of course, but it won't happen because the government can't admit that its central policy is a failure, even though that is obvious to any neutral observer.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
Sorry to hear Charles has left
Yes, it was deeply unpleasant to see too.
I'm sure counselling is available.
It is indeed and I hope you avail yourself to it and become a better person.
Please don’t reply to me again. I’ve no interest in indulging your desire to engage in pointless arguments.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
“ I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. “
But surely these crisis have crept up on us because we didn’t do as they argue and transform quickly enough, take seriously energy security quickly enough. So is it right for you to foul mouth scapegoat them ?
That's b/s though. I have rarely heard these environmentalists talk about energy security - it's always about reducing consumption. And I think we've transformed quicker than many were asking for a few years ago. And there are real limits to how fast the government can go.
So yes, it is alright for me to foulmouth people who think that hurting other people, and damaging property, is a good thing.
In fact, they're doing their cause harm.
But for many years we have had the rich energy establishment active in “the lobby” throughout western democracies, buying influencing, buying politicians and their votes, not always as obviously like Schroeder. And decision making on change, that not only protects earths eco system but helps voters bills in long run too, has not just been very slow, but in terms of energy security we have got in bed with China, Russia. And other iffy types.
And the Eco activists very little influence in that lobby. But, here, for all the world to read and for the archives, you are telling us they are the traitors, they are Putin’s self serving idiots. 🤔
I don’t think you are 100% right. We will just have to politely agree to disagree on this one. 😕
I agree with much of what you say. However, I'd argue the environmentalists have a heck of a big lobby at the moment. It may be a different lobby, but they have won the argument comprehensively. We are heading in the direction they want.
And whilst the 'energy establishment' may have 'caused' the problems (albeit we buy their products), they have given us the rather good (generally) living standards we have. I'd also argue the solutions to the crisis lie more with them than with the eco-activists.
These ***** blocking refineries do more harm than good.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
On the other hand, Turin and Milan are arguably more correct than the Italian as they are the local names in Piedmontese and Lombard.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
Well that would be wrong, but I would expect that someone would use their name for a place in their article and for us to expect them to use our name an insult (other than for clarity). We have just had this example with Kiev. It would be an insult to a Ukrainian journalist to ask them to use Kiev in an article.
In the case of the Falklands, that is what the people who live there call them.
Using "someone else's name for them" is simply insulting to those that live there.
The Guardian referred to the Falklands, the Argentinian journalist referred to the Maldives.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
I would not be surprised if these scum (*) were pro-Russia. They are certainly doing Putin's bidding at a time when the country is in crisis. They are causing more crisis.
The country has made massive strides in moving towards green energy. The progress is accelerating, and Putin's little misadventure should accelerate it further. Yet these ****** just want their pathetic little jollies.
They should get a life. Their actions are not without consequence for individuals or the nation.
(*) An acceptable use IMO.
Nor is inaction on climate change
It's a good job we're taking actions then.
Not enough we aren't. Flying anywhere costs less, nominal, than it did 40 years ago. Passenger numbers are up x5. If we were serious about this we'd reduce back to 1980 levels.
it's pretty much the same for most consumer goods. Theyre cheaper and there's more of them. 40 years ago most people werent blogging non stop on their PCs. Why pick on flying ?
Yes, IT is thought to have about the same carbon cost as aviation.
there is no point in getting shouty on either side of the argument. There is no doubt that we can't go on like this. There is no doubt that it is very much a feature not a bug of going on even like this that most of mankind lives in serious poverty, because we certainly can't afford 1st world style aviating and computing by all those poor people. Something is going to give, FK what exactly.
One thing which will have to give is third world birth rates.
For example:
Yemen's population is 28 million by 2018 estimates, with 46% of the population being under 15 years old and 2.7% above 65 years. In 1950, it was 4.3 million. By 2050, the population is estimated to increase to about 60 million. Yemen has a high total fertility rate, at 4.45 children per woman. It is the 30th highest in the world.
Yes, and this is a mystery of human behaviour: the more of a hellhole a particular country is, the more its inhabitants seem keen to bring more children into it. Whereas where the living is good, people can't be bothered. Intuitively, you'd think the reverse would be true. And I've done GCSE geography, and I know the ostensible reasons for it. But it still doesn't make intuitive sense.
Even putting aside the polite GCSE geography reasons for it (economic security, female education, etc), isn't it actually really rather simple and obvious?
People really, really like having sex, and if you have sex a lot (and don't have contraception) then you will end up with lots of babies. If you have access to contraception then you can have sex without babies, which is just as well as babies get in the way of having more sex.
QED
The confusing part is why some people still have babies.
For me the confusing part is why more people don't have more children. They are a blessing and a joy.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
If there were riots by Nationalists then of course riot police would have to be used and arrests made as happened in Spain with Catalan Nationalists. Otherwise they would have in effect lost control of Scotland and Sturgeon would try and force through the result, maybe even declaring UDI, even if the UK government ignored it
Nationalista in Spain/Catalonia = right winger like you. The word you want is, presumably, Independista.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
I think you are correct. I started lurking at Brexit referendum time. And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
On the other hand, Turin and Milan are arguably more correct than the Italian as they are the local names in Piedmontese and Lombard.
Hence AC Milan
Bayern Munich OTOH...
Fun fact: in Italian Munich is Monaco [di Baviera]
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
On the other hand, Turin and Milan are arguably more correct than the Italian as they are the local names in Piedmontese and Lombard.
Hence AC Milan
Bayern Munich OTOH...
Fun fact: in Italian Munich is Monaco [di Baviera]
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
I think you are correct. I started lurking at Brexit referendum time. And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
A great shame. He was superb on political stats, but ....
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
I think you are correct. I started lurking at Brexit referendum time. And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
If there were riots by Nationalists then of course riot police would have to be used and arrests made as happened in Spain with Catalan Nationalists. Otherwise they would have in effect lost control of Scotland and Sturgeon would try and force through the result, maybe even declaring UDI, even if the UK government ignored it
As usual changing what you have said previously. What happened to the tanks, the troops? Riots appeared for the first time yesterday. You and goal posts eh. The must be on wheels and turbo charged.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
On the other hand, Turin and Milan are arguably more correct than the Italian as they are the local names in Piedmontese and Lombard.
Hence AC Milan
Bayern Munich OTOH...
Fun fact: in Italian Munich is Monaco [di Baviera]
I think Bayern is actually Bayern München.
Yes both seem to be used
ETA and Milan is nothing to do with local dialects. Per wiki: AC Milan was founded as Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket Club in 1899 by English expatriates Alfred Edwards and Herbert Kilpin.
When I take a step back and look at the state of things it is so reminiscent of 1992-7.
I think we are underestimating Labour's chances in 2024 and next month will be a bad one for the tories.
Things could not be more different today compared with 1992-97. Just look at what inflation was like back then...
It's an irony that the Conservatives in 1997 bequeathed to Labour a country in rude economic health and yet the tories took a hammering. But if you look at the polls carefully you can clearly see that Black Wednesday and Britain's exit from the ERM busted the Conservatives: the terrible events of that day when interest rates briefly went over 20% meant that the Conservatives were no longer trusted on the economy.
2022. Snap.
They're finished.
Indeed. The Tory USP is economic competence. The “Fuck business” incident seemed like trivial Westminster Bubble detail at the time. It wasn’t. ‘Fuck business’ was the beginning of the end.
The way a lot of businesses have been behaving, from PO ferries, to PPE contractors, "fuck business" may well be quite a popular slogan.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
@NickPalmer Nick I am to blame for last night but I think you need context. HYUFD wanted to censor the press. In particular prevent an Argentinian journalist using the Argentinian name for the Falklands which is natural regardless of whether you are claiming ownership. So literally nit picking through articles. This is a trait of fascism and which is appalling. It adds to other traits he has shown over the last few months including admiration of several fascist dictators, believing Russia is democratic, first use of nukes against a non nuclear state, use of the military against civilians, numerous other very authoritarian views. None of these views are typical of any Tory I know or posts here.
He brings it on himself. Are we supposed to let such views pass without challenging them?
To be fair Mr H, he was ill. As we realise this morning.
On the subject of the Falkland/Malvinas - what wold happen to an article that used "Peking", "Australian Aborigines", "Bombay" (say), if it was published in the Guardian?
The point was that the author, a prominent Argentinian, used the term Malvinas. The Guardian 'corrected' it, then realised it shouldn't have. (or back-tracked to placate the war-mongers, depending on your point of view!)
I'm curious why "it shouldn't have"
My understanding was that the modern, liberal position, was that places, countries and ethnic groups should be referred to by the names that people involved/living there give them.
So the Chinese ask for it to be called Beijing, the First Australians ask to be called that, and the Indians ask that we refer to Mumbai.
The Guardian would "correct" other usage.
I am not actually going to disagree with you as such as I don't have a problem with people deciding what their country/placenames should be. But there is a strange demarcation used in this which I have never fully understood.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
I agree and it is rather getting away from the point of censorship of the free press which is far more important than the etiquette of what word to use, which I accept may upset some people, but at least they have the freedom to be upset, unlike a state which controls what we say, which HYUFD would like.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
Actually Democracy does not include 'not hassling people'. All the more so because 'hassling' is very much in the eye of the beholder. Pointing out how despicable, undemocratic and dangerous HYUFD's views are and challenging him every time he advocates them is not 'hassling'. Some might say that in a democracy it is a public duty.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum I would expect the UK government to try and stop it through the courts. I would also expect them to ignore the result. I would not expect any force to be used in particular tanks.
If there were riots by Nationalists then of course riot police would have to be used and arrests made as happened in Spain with Catalan Nationalists. Otherwise they would have in effect lost control of Scotland and Sturgeon would try and force through the result, maybe even declaring UDI, even if the UK government ignored it
Nationalista in Spain/Catalonia = right winger like you. The word you want is, presumably, Independista.
Also, the police beat people for voting, not for rioting.
I wonder if the revelations of the atrocities we have seen today will persuade European countries to switch off the gas?
All those people who accused central and east Europeans of paranoia towards Russia ought to hang their heads in shame. There is a profound arrogance in assuming you know someone's neighbours better than they do themselves. Truth is those people had seen it all before. There was never any sign that Russia had changed. A kleptocratic elite that uses delinquents as cannon fodder. No doubt there will be the usual suspects saying we poked the bear (like we did in Chechnya and Syria?) how poor Russia has been humiliated by the west for 30/300/3000 years etc etc.
Something else. I can't help feel there has been a certain snobbery on display. A view in western Europe that Russians were BETTER than their fellow slavs. After all Russia gave us ballet, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. What have the Poles and Ukrainians given us? How dare they deign to criticise the great nation of Russia. What a bunch of upstarts. Now it wasn't just a matter of class or culture. Money mattered too and of course cheap gas. Russia has been infantilised by its energy resources removing any need to develop a modern economy. I hope Europeans now feel like Dr Frankenstein after he created the monster.
The Poles gave us Copernicus.
And Chopin.
And one of my primary school teachers.
John III Sobieski, the man who finally turned back the expanding Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna.
Ukraine gave us Khrushchev - for good or for ill - and a case could be made for Trotsky and Gorbachev as well.
I should have mentioned Joseph Conrad and Sergei Prokofiev.
Amazing chap Conrad. He was pals with both Neil Munro, the author of the comedy classic Para Handy, and Cunninghame Graham, the Liberal MP who went on to become the first socialist MP in the Commons and helped found both the Labour Party and then the Scottish National Party.
Is Conrad the greatest novelist to write in a language not native to him ?
Probably, yes. But other contenders (includes other genres than just novel writing):
Samuel Beckett Joseph Brodsky Emil Cioran Eva Hoffman Romain Gary Jack Kerouac Agota Kristof Milan Kundera Alistair MacLean Yann Martel Vladimir Nabokov Björn and Benny
When the current Russian offensive peters out, it will hold more Ukrainian territory than it had at the start. Maybe a lot more, maybe a bit more, but definitely more.
Then what? Will there be treaty? Will either side respect it? A ceasefire? A continuing hot war? A frozen conflict? Will Russia become Iran or North Korea? Will Ukraine continue to function? How much support will it get from the US and Europe? Will China, India and the Arab states align to Russia against America?
I wonder if the revelations of the atrocities we have seen today will persuade European countries to switch off the gas?
All those people who accused central and east Europeans of paranoia towards Russia ought to hang their heads in shame. There is a profound arrogance in assuming you know someone's neighbours better than they do themselves. Truth is those people had seen it all before. There was never any sign that Russia had changed. A kleptocratic elite that uses delinquents as cannon fodder. No doubt there will be the usual suspects saying we poked the bear (like we did in Chechnya and Syria?) how poor Russia has been humiliated by the west for 30/300/3000 years etc etc.
Something else. I can't help feel there has been a certain snobbery on display. A view in western Europe that Russians were BETTER than their fellow slavs. After all Russia gave us ballet, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. What have the Poles and Ukrainians given us? How dare they deign to criticise the great nation of Russia. What a bunch of upstarts. Now it wasn't just a matter of class or culture. Money mattered too and of course cheap gas. Russia has been infantilised by its energy resources removing any need to develop a modern economy. I hope Europeans now feel like Dr Frankenstein after he created the monster.
The Poles gave us Copernicus.
And Chopin.
And one of my primary school teachers.
John III Sobieski, the man who finally turned back the expanding Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna.
Ukraine gave us Khrushchev - for good or for ill - and a case could be made for Trotsky and Gorbachev as well.
I should have mentioned Joseph Conrad and Sergei Prokofiev.
Amazing chap Conrad. He was pals with both Neil Munro, the author of the comedy classic Para Handy, and Cunninghame Graham, the Liberal MP who went on to become the first socialist MP in the Commons and helped found both the Labour Party and then the Scottish National Party.
Is Conrad the greatest novelist to write in a language not native to him ?
Probably, yes. But other contenders (includes other genres than just novel writing):
Samuel Beckett Joseph Brodsky Emil Cioran Eva Hoffman Romain Gary Jack Kerouac Agota Kristof Milan Kundera Alistair MacLean Yann Martel Vladimir Nabokov Björn and Benny
I did wonder about Gaels, Welsh and Irish native speakers, but don't know enough about them to judge.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
I have asked this before @MarqueeMark, would you be willing write thread on the topic. I am really interested as I know are others.
OK, let me get something together. The letter I wrote to Kwasi Kwarteng would be an interesting starting point. He attended the All Party Parliamentary Group on tidal power in early 2020, and at that said getting to 2030 was keeping him awake at night. He asked for how he might get there - on one side of paper. So I wrote it. And had it hand delivered to Kwasi by Sir Patrick McCloughlin.
And we must remember that Putin's aims are clear: he wants all the Baltic states, and perhaps even Poland, under his thumb. We can sit in our nice, warm homes and say: "Oh, he won't do it!", but it's clear he wants to. By military means or subversion, he will try.
This evil needs stopping, now. Russia needs to lose, and the Russian public needs to know the evils that have been done in their name. If Russia can claim a 'win' in Ukraine, then they'll go for more in a few years.
And shame on those who sought to excuse Russia, or blame us for their evils. Or worse, blame the Ukrainians for the evil that has been unleashed upon them.
Can we start by suspending all the MPs who signed the StW petition from parliament?
The are indeed hideous and shocking. My only slight reservation is that when you have lots of morale boosting stories showing everyone up to old grannies making molotov cocktails and saying that they are willing to fight for their homeland the boundaries between combatants and civilians inevitably becomes seriously blurred. Evil though the Russians are the Ukrainians are seeking to have it both ways here.
I disagree, an so does history. The Oradour-sur-Glane massacre was not excused because of the French partisans, nor were any of the other similar atrocities.
History will write this similarly.
It certainly doesn't excuse people executed with hands tied behind their backs as we saw yesterday. That is a war crime, plain and simple and the crime is murder.
But if you are a 18 year old, poorly trained conscript in an armoured vehicle that seems to have a target painted on it, expecting a lethal ambush at any moment it is not hard to understand how everything that moves looks like a target.
The things we see in Bucha, and elsewhere following the Russian retreats, look to me to be part of the complete breakdown of discipline and command by the Russian forces. Not that the Russian officers are likely to be that bothered. After all, is it worse shooting cyclists and shoppers from an APC, or firing a missile at a theatre full of children. One is just a bit more close, but both are crimes.
The Russian forces were catastrophically defeated and took very heavy casualties in the Kyiv Oblast, and ran amok killing, looting, raping before retreating. The effect will be to harden the resolve of Ukranians in Donbas and Kherson to fight on. It is clear why Mariopol fights on, even a month into the siege.
The officers will not care as this is the way the Russian military acts. They even treat their own troops poorly:
"In 2019, according to the Russian military prosecutor office situation with dedovshchina is getting worse. Incidents of hazing in the army during the 2019 have increased. 51,000 human rights violations and 9,890 sexual assault cases.[8]"
Certainly so. The whole point of basic military training is to turn raw recruits into willing killers, and overcome their existing cultural inhibitions. It doesn't seem to be too difficult to do this, but what is difficult is to control them afterwards.
In general post Vietnam western armies have understood how to direct and contain that violence. There are continued incidents of course, including British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, and even in training in Kenya. In Russia, as with some other nations the military command doesn't even seem willing to try to contain the mayhem, indeed often relishes it.
Well yes, that's exactly the point. It's down to training, and for the Russians, hazing is part of the training. Even to the point where recruits are sexually abused or killed. It's a step beyond anything we would recognise as 'training', even with some of our problems in training.
Yet as we've seen by the results, it doesn't work. The Russians are doing poorly, in part, because of their training regime.
The hazing is less severe in the UK, but incidents keep happening here too. This was last year:
Part of the problem in the Russian forces is the lack of a real cadre of NCOs to control the process of turning recruits into killers who follow orders.
I believe the resilience of the Wehrmacht during WWII was largely down to the strength & initiative of the non com ranks, and explained its ability to keep fighting for years in unfavourable conditions.
Given the way this government u turns on its u turns I wouldn’t rule out Boris Johnson announcing the return of free Covid-19 tests.
Covid tests are not free.
They are either paid for by the user of paid for through taxation.
This kind of pedantry does you no favours. Everybody know when you say something is "free" that it means you don't have to pay to get/consume it. LFTs are free. Twitter is a free. This site is free. These are not the abuses of the language that you think they are.
Your denial of reality does you no favours.
Covid tests cost money.
So they will be paid for either by the user or by higher taxes.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
I think you are correct. I started lurking at Brexit referendum time. And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
He was a very good poster, who from memory made some excellent predictions.
The thing is, we all have our little interests and obsessions, things we will not back down on. It was just that his was a little... odd.
Yes, it was a real shame. He was an outstandingly good poster but had this peculiar fixation with the holocaust.
It's in the nature of the Site though that people come and go for all sorts of reasons. I miss the departed - Charles, Tpfkar, Augus Carp and many others - but there is no shortage of replacements and it helps to keep the discussion fresh, and its character changing.
My highly subjective impression is that the Site is as good now as it has ever been in terms of overall quality and range of expression. Mike must be doing something right.
Tidal is something they should be looking at as well. It got canned previously due to not being cost effective. The higher price of energy makes it cost effective now.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
Well, no diesel at my local station, and only one pump with petrol. Apparently there's a shortage in the southeast due to the ****** blockading the refineries.
My opinion of these 'protestors' is rather low.
Like you I don’t like the idea of being out of petrol, but we do understand why the protestors act now? Energy bill crisis, secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis are all interlinked, they merely want to keep all of our concerns about the climate crisis in the news and in all our heads and in heads of decision makers at this time of balancing decisions? That’s fair enough isn’t it?
Fine to keep things in the headlines of course. Fine to want to reduce our dependence on oil. Doesn’t excuse blocking the road though. And yet when you run over these people, it's you who gets prosecuted.
And I'm guessing they all walked to these protests? Yeah, right....
But we have to be careful don’t we? not to put all our anger on the activists whose mission is to flag things up? Because the secure energy supplies crisis and climate crisis is isn’t their making, it’s actually the crisis opposite of their fault isn’t it? Where they have said we were not moving quickly enough to transform and change, we now have the crisis for not listening to them and not acting on energy security and transforming on climate damaging energy quickly enough?
Do you not concede there is an argument in there?
I've been pushing tidal lagoon power stations for years. If Boris had started on them the moment he got elected, they would probably have first power from Swansea by the time of a 2024 election. And half a dozen more would be moving through planning, on the way to making a massive difference to our power output by 2030. A huge political win - and a long way towards weaning ourselves off hydrocarbon use in this country.
Government were told all this. Specifically, in a letter hand delivered to Kwasi Kwarteng in April 2020. Response was there none. So fuck 'em. I've done what I could to get them out a hole.
I have asked this before @MarqueeMark, would you be willing write thread on the topic. I am really interested as I know are others.
OK, let me get something together. The letter I wrote to Kwasi Kwarteng would be an interesting starting point. He attended the All Party Parliamentary Group on tidal power in early 2020, and at that said getting to 2030 was keeping him awake at night. He asked for how he might get there - on one side of paper. So I wrote it. And had it hand delivered to Kwasi by Sir Patrick McCloughlin.
Never even had the courtesy of a response.
Excellent (not that you didn't get a reply which isn't excellent). I promise not to hijack your thread with the other nonsense I am posting here.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
Given the way this government u turns on its u turns I wouldn’t rule out Boris Johnson announcing the return of free Covid-19 tests.
Covid tests are not free.
They are either paid for by the user of paid for through taxation.
This kind of pedantry does you no favours. Everybody know when you say something is "free" that it means you don't have to pay to get/consume it. LFTs are free. Twitter is a free. This site is free. These are not the abuses of the language that you think they are.
Your denial of reality does you no favours.
Covid tests cost money.
So they will be paid for either by the user or by higher taxes.
Acknowledged; almost everything costs money to produce. Not all of those things are paid for by the user. Those things are free. Free does not mean "costs nothing to make available". What you're doing is requiring others to follow you into an unusual use of a commonly used word because it offends your ideology. Should Covid tests be free? I don't know. Are they, right now? Yes, definitely.
Everything costs, its just a question of who pays.
The issue of 'free' tests as with anything 'free' is merely the consumer pointing at someone else and saying "make them pay instead of me".
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
Yes, it would be.
Which is why I didn’t do it. But the more I think about it, there is an element of ‘all’s fair in love and war’ perhaps. Unscrupulous mercilessness seems to be a good trait to possess to succeed in politics, sadly. It would be shitty to grass him up to the local opposition but I could see why it might be done.
Is it doxxing someone if you use info they have willingly put in the public domain - this is not a private forum - to identify them?
If I were in HYUFD’s position I would be a lot more cautious than he is. But it is his choice.
The moment you start sending what people posted on here to political opponents, employers, newspapers etc then this forum ends. As people would respond in kind.
It is not a public forum either, hence most people do not post under their own name. However as I said I have not posted anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. This is a public website. Anyone can read or post. It is undeniably public. If you post opinions on here, and make yourself identifiable, which you have, easily, then you can’t be upset if someone picks up on it at some point and uses it against you politically.
It isn't a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.
Though if people do start leaking information on here to political parties and employers etc then as I said this forum ends as people respond in kind. Anyone of any role of significance anywhere would leave or post posts of such anodyne tedium they really don't say anything at all.
‘It isn’t a public website. Otherwise it would be read by far more of the public than it is and everyone would post under their own name.’
Do you consider this drivel before you post it? Not public? Because of some arbitrary definition you’ve just dreamed up? You’re bonkers.
Tidal is something they should be looking at as well. It got canned previously due to not being cost effective. The higher price of energy makes it cost effective now.
When the cost of power is going through the roof, everybody should be asking their MP "Why is the Government so determined to have us build - and have the consumer pay for - the most expensive electricity generation available?"
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
What you telling me that teenagers with the infinite choice provided by YouTube and Twitch don't want to watch a linear tv channel with shows about people testing tractors....
Tidal is something they should be looking at as well. It got canned previously due to not being cost effective. The higher price of energy makes it cost effective now.
When the cost of power is going through the roof, everybody should be asking their MP "Why is the Government so determined to have us build - and have the consumer pay for - the most expensive electricity generation available?"
It’s like someone said, about something else, in a different thread.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
Posters that burst peoples carefully constructed comfort bubbles are essential to PB. If you find yourself thinking poster X sounds weird, it might be a good opportunity to question yourself.
I am not sure many of us need to question ourselves about whether it is a bad idea to beat up grannies, use tanks against people for daring to want a vote, and advocate first use of nukes against Argentina.
HYUFD wants to be an elected representative. I would suggest it is incumbent upon all those who think he is dangerously unsuited for any form of elected office to ensure views are widely known so voters are not fooled into supporting him.
He already is an elected representative, bless him.
I did some googling the other day, I think I’ve identified him from the Epping Council website, pretty easy to do based on the personal snippets he’s dropped here. I should get out more.
I did ponder letting the local Labour Party know so they could read his postings. But I thought that would be a bit shitty.
You'd probably be better off, if you want to cause him problems, letting the local LibDems know.
If people start posting and leaking what people posted on here in a private forum then that also opens the way for others to start transferring details to employers, political opponents etc as many have identified themselves on here and made posts they might regret.
However I have not posted anything on here I am particularly ashamed of and not anything on the whole most Epping Forest Conservative voters would not agree with
I agree. Doxxing is deplorable. It recently drove @Charles off the site. While I didn't like his views, he was an interesting insight into an older noblese oblige style of Toryism, albeit one that used a cultivated veneer to mask its beastliness.
NOT BLOODY TRUE
Charles bloody linked to an obituary for someone he said was his Dad, how do you dox someone who has already done that to themselves? I just got fed up and pointed out that the genuinely posh and rich don't go on and on and on about it on internet forums, and to close off the likely retort that I just thought that because I don't know any of them, I pointed out, truthfully, that I know some of his cousins, and you could know them for years without them going out of their way to tell you Who They Are.
Not doxxing.
Yes, everyone knows who @Charles is. The issue aiui was naming an uncle, which was a bit off, even if anyone could have worked it out for themselves. It is a shame @Charles has gone, with his expert knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and, although not to everyone's taste, anecdotes about his ancestors but there it is.
I always got the impression that Charles was a combination of mildly embarrassed and tongue in cheek about his ancestry. He could have remained silent, but then, it was a part of who he was he could nothing about.
I miss him and if he lurks, very much hope he makes a reappearance. The site is poorer for his departure.
Hundreds of millions poorer, probably.... 😉
I have no idea who Charles is! I always assumed he was a comic creation, nobody could be that posh in real life. The site is certainly poorer in his absence.
Classic 'nice but dim' posho. I'd welcome him back.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
What you telling me that teenagers with the infinite choice provided by YouTube and Twitch don't want to watch a linear tv channel with shows about people testing tractors....
It’s bizarre, really. They have re runs of Gavin and Stacey too. Can’t understand why they are not pulling in the punters.
Hundreds? Aren't these things supposed to be the size of a football stadium or something?
It's academic anyway. If Nimbies regularly succeed in blocking fifty Barratt boxes here or a windmill there then the chances of modular reactors ever being built are precisely zero. A nuclear power plant isn't generally considered to be beneficial to local house prices.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
Thought police? You're the one who tells people their conservatism isn't pure because they voted for another party decades ago. How dare you call someone else "thought police"?
I don't condemn people for their views and say they are not entitled to hold them unlike you.
Expressing what makes you a committed, ideological Conservative is another matter entirely
I wonder if the revelations of the atrocities we have seen today will persuade European countries to switch off the gas?
All those people who accused central and east Europeans of paranoia towards Russia ought to hang their heads in shame. There is a profound arrogance in assuming you know someone's neighbours better than they do themselves. Truth is those people had seen it all before. There was never any sign that Russia had changed. A kleptocratic elite that uses delinquents as cannon fodder. No doubt there will be the usual suspects saying we poked the bear (like we did in Chechnya and Syria?) how poor Russia has been humiliated by the west for 30/300/3000 years etc etc.
Something else. I can't help feel there has been a certain snobbery on display. A view in western Europe that Russians were BETTER than their fellow slavs. After all Russia gave us ballet, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. What have the Poles and Ukrainians given us? How dare they deign to criticise the great nation of Russia. What a bunch of upstarts. Now it wasn't just a matter of class or culture. Money mattered too and of course cheap gas. Russia has been infantilised by its energy resources removing any need to develop a modern economy. I hope Europeans now feel like Dr Frankenstein after he created the monster.
The Poles gave us Copernicus.
And Chopin.
And one of my primary school teachers.
John III Sobieski, the man who finally turned back the expanding Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna.
Ukraine gave us Khrushchev - for good or for ill - and a case could be made for Trotsky and Gorbachev as well.
I should have mentioned Joseph Conrad and Sergei Prokofiev.
Amazing chap Conrad. He was pals with both Neil Munro, the author of the comedy classic Para Handy, and Cunninghame Graham, the Liberal MP who went on to become the first socialist MP in the Commons and helped found both the Labour Party and then the Scottish National Party.
Is Conrad the greatest novelist to write in a language not native to him ?
Probably, yes. But other contenders (includes other genres than just novel writing):
Samuel Beckett Joseph Brodsky Emil Cioran Eva Hoffman Romain Gary Jack Kerouac Agota Kristof Milan Kundera Alistair MacLean Yann Martel Vladimir Nabokov Björn and Benny
I did wonder about Gaels, Welsh and Irish native speakers, but don't know enough about them to judge.
Admirable, but never usually a hindrance on PB. Just witness the number of military geniuses we suddenly have.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
What you telling me that teenagers with the infinite choice provided by YouTube and Twitch don't want to watch a linear tv channel with shows about people testing tractors....
It’s bizarre, really. They have re runs of Gavin and Stacey too. Can’t understand why they are not pulling in the punters.
Anybody with half a brain can see that linear tv is dying. As the likes of Netflix's hits with Squid Game, Queen's Gambit etc etc etc, if you make a really good show, people will find it on your streaming service. The idea that you need a dedicated linear channel, which you fill the overwhelming amount with repeats and absolute low end crap, is bonkers.
You don't need a dedicated channel in order to get yourself a hit show with da yuff. You just need to make a show that resonates with them and put it on iPlayer.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I believe Nick actually is a communist? Or certainly former communist?
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
Honestly you really don't read or worse understand anyone's posts do you. I mean what are you talking about. I can't think how to respond to your post because it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't object to Nick's posts at all, or want to stop him and in fact tend to agree with most of his posts. One of my favourite posters.
It is noticeable that you often don't understand posts.
Hundreds? Aren't these things supposed to be the size of a football stadium or something?
It's academic anyway. If Nimbies regularly succeed in blocking fifty Barratt boxes here or a windmill there then the chances of modular reactors ever being built are precisely zero. A nuclear power plant isn't generally considered to be beneficial to local house prices.
Small reactors. The sort of thing that fits in a smallish attack submarine. I'm very much in favour, from the little we know atm, and especially if they don't use highly-enriched uranium.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
What you telling me that teenagers with the infinite choice provided by YouTube and Twitch don't want to watch a linear tv channel with shows about people testing tractors....
It’s bizarre, really. They have re runs of Gavin and Stacey too. Can’t understand why they are not pulling in the punters.
Anybody with half a brain can see that linear tv is dying. As the likes of Netflix's hits with Squid Game, Queen's Gambit etc etc etc, if you make a really good show, people will find it on your streaming service. The idea that you need a dedicated linear channel, which you fill the overwhelming amount with repeats and absolute low end crap, is bonkers.
You don't need a dedicated channel in order to get yourself a hit show with da yuff. You just need to make a good show.
It is, but it is typical of the thinking of the BBC.
They just don’t change with the times. They never have.
They still expect to raise money via the license fee which is neither popular nor tenable for the future.
The BBC needs to grasp the nettle, look at what the future will be like and change to suit. Not just expect things to stay the same.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
Thanks. There is too much increasingly personal abuse on this site now from a minority of posters.
They are not actually interested in discussing issues or politics or polls just personal vendetta. It is becoming tedious and the site is becoming duller as a result.
Some like Charles have already left because it got too personal about them. Others will no doubt follow unless it ends
I wonder if the revelations of the atrocities we have seen today will persuade European countries to switch off the gas?
All those people who accused central and east Europeans of paranoia towards Russia ought to hang their heads in shame. There is a profound arrogance in assuming you know someone's neighbours better than they do themselves. Truth is those people had seen it all before. There was never any sign that Russia had changed. A kleptocratic elite that uses delinquents as cannon fodder. No doubt there will be the usual suspects saying we poked the bear (like we did in Chechnya and Syria?) how poor Russia has been humiliated by the west for 30/300/3000 years etc etc.
Something else. I can't help feel there has been a certain snobbery on display. A view in western Europe that Russians were BETTER than their fellow slavs. After all Russia gave us ballet, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. What have the Poles and Ukrainians given us? How dare they deign to criticise the great nation of Russia. What a bunch of upstarts. Now it wasn't just a matter of class or culture. Money mattered too and of course cheap gas. Russia has been infantilised by its energy resources removing any need to develop a modern economy. I hope Europeans now feel like Dr Frankenstein after he created the monster.
The Poles gave us Copernicus.
And Chopin.
And one of my primary school teachers.
John III Sobieski, the man who finally turned back the expanding Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna.
Ukraine gave us Khrushchev - for good or for ill - and a case could be made for Trotsky and Gorbachev as well.
I should have mentioned Joseph Conrad and Sergei Prokofiev.
Amazing chap Conrad. He was pals with both Neil Munro, the author of the comedy classic Para Handy, and Cunninghame Graham, the Liberal MP who went on to become the first socialist MP in the Commons and helped found both the Labour Party and then the Scottish National Party.
Is Conrad the greatest novelist to write in a language not native to him ?
Probably, yes. But other contenders (includes other genres than just novel writing):
Samuel Beckett Joseph Brodsky Emil Cioran Eva Hoffman Romain Gary Jack Kerouac Agota Kristof Milan Kundera Alistair MacLean Yann Martel Vladimir Nabokov Björn and Benny
I did wonder about Gaels, Welsh and Irish native speakers, but don't know enough about them to judge.
Admirable, but never usually a hindrance on PB. Just witness the number of military geniuses we suddenly have.
Show me one poster who claims to be a 'military genius'.
Mostly we just have people trying to make sense of a complex situation. The great thing about this site is often when someone gets something wrong, someone with more knowledge pops up to politely correct them. And we all learn.
I wonder if the revelations of the atrocities we have seen today will persuade European countries to switch off the gas?
All those people who accused central and east Europeans of paranoia towards Russia ought to hang their heads in shame. There is a profound arrogance in assuming you know someone's neighbours better than they do themselves. Truth is those people had seen it all before. There was never any sign that Russia had changed. A kleptocratic elite that uses delinquents as cannon fodder. No doubt there will be the usual suspects saying we poked the bear (like we did in Chechnya and Syria?) how poor Russia has been humiliated by the west for 30/300/3000 years etc etc.
Something else. I can't help feel there has been a certain snobbery on display. A view in western Europe that Russians were BETTER than their fellow slavs. After all Russia gave us ballet, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. What have the Poles and Ukrainians given us? How dare they deign to criticise the great nation of Russia. What a bunch of upstarts. Now it wasn't just a matter of class or culture. Money mattered too and of course cheap gas. Russia has been infantilised by its energy resources removing any need to develop a modern economy. I hope Europeans now feel like Dr Frankenstein after he created the monster.
The Poles gave us Copernicus.
And Chopin.
And one of my primary school teachers.
John III Sobieski, the man who finally turned back the expanding Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna.
Ukraine gave us Khrushchev - for good or for ill - and a case could be made for Trotsky and Gorbachev as well.
I should have mentioned Joseph Conrad and Sergei Prokofiev.
Amazing chap Conrad. He was pals with both Neil Munro, the author of the comedy classic Para Handy, and Cunninghame Graham, the Liberal MP who went on to become the first socialist MP in the Commons and helped found both the Labour Party and then the Scottish National Party.
Is Conrad the greatest novelist to write in a language not native to him ?
Probably, yes. But other contenders (includes other genres than just novel writing):
Samuel Beckett Joseph Brodsky Emil Cioran Eva Hoffman Romain Gary Jack Kerouac Agota Kristof Milan Kundera Alistair MacLean Yann Martel Vladimir Nabokov Björn and Benny
I did wonder about Gaels, Welsh and Irish native speakers, but don't know enough about them to judge.
Admirable, but never usually a hindrance on PB. Just witness the number of military geniuses we suddenly have.
Yes, it does behove one to be cautious in one's assertions. Though there are a number of clear examples in Scots to English (Burns for instance) but not much more so perhaps than many a rustic English person especially furth of the home counties.
I wonder a little that nobody has suggested rhetoric as an art - or David Lloyd George. He certainly had a skill in his second language.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
Honestly you really don't read or worse understand anyone's posts do you. I mean what are you talking about. I can't think how to respond to your post because it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't object to Nick's posts at all, or want to stop him and in fact tend to agree with most of his posts. One of my favourite posters.
It is noticeable that you often don't understand posts.
FFS, can't you just let go? We get that you don't like HYUFD's views. I'm not so keen on most (or all?) of them, but it doesn't bother me, and the site would be poorer without him.
As it happens, there are a small number of other posters whose views I do find really obnoxious. Guess what? Nobody would know. Why? Because I just ignore them.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
I read it partly as an attempt at dark humour TBH and people need to lighten up a bit about that. On the other hand he does take the British Monarchy, Northern Irish loyalism and arguably religion far too seriously IMO.
Overall he is still a much better and more pleasant poster than others on here and still gives a relatively dispassionate view of Lab, Con and LD electoral fortunes.
Even if sanctions are not biting, presumably all this fighting is costing the Russians money. There were rumours - scotched - early on in the invasion that the cost of the war was something like $20bn per day. If that was much too high, the point remains: a state that was something of an economic basket case before is spending its money at a much higher rate than before. At some point, surely, the war becomes unaffordable?
That number was debunked - like a number of other numbers relating to the Russian conflict, it makes sense if it was 20bn "roubles". There was a similar thing with some "lost GDP" numbers out of Russia.
Yes, it was. But it's still going to be costing them a not-inconsiderable amount. At some point they will run out of money, surely? The early giddy rumours that that point would be days away were debunked. But is that point weeks away, or months, or years? I don't know. But I personally doubt the ability of Russia to be able to afford the war much beyond the middle of summer.
Why ?
Apart from the economic front, there is the issue of international dependencies.
Putin has long tried to make large chunks of the Russian economy autarkic. There was good article (trying to find it) about the extent to which this has failed, due to corruption.
Essentially, it is very hard to eliminate foreign comments in a supply chain. It is much easier and cheaper to setup a factory screw-drivering together foreign components and declare victory.
It has been reported, already, that the main Russian tank factory has shut down. Which means that the Russian army will be replacing the tanks it is losing from the various stockpiles. Which are old and not in the best of shape.
The war will do massive damage to their economy, sure. But it’s entirely conceivable that they could sustain a lower pace of operations (having abandoned several fronts), for quite a long time. While oil revenues hold up they likely don’t have an existential economic problem, and finding other sources (China etc) for imports isn’t impossible.
That is why supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms and resources is essential. A eventual ceasefire a year or two down the road, with Russia having taken the south including Mariupol and held it, would be a disastrous result for Ukraine and a very dangerous one for the west.
Why get excited ?
A country with an economy just slightly bigger than Spain's has invaded its neighbour. It's using its circa 4% of world GDP to threaten economic consequences on countries with over 50% of world GDP.
Meanwhile it has trashed the prospects of its main money earners - energy, arms and metals - and is on its way to an unhappy economic stagnation. Add in its military reputation has imploded and politically it is heading to be a vassal of China and it is a country that needs a serious rethink.
I think Robert made just this point last year, well before they invaded Ukraine, when he said Russia didn’t represent much of a threat anymore because it was economically insignificant.
You’re right that the invasion will be massively costly, perhaps disastrous for Russia. But they still retain the military capacity to do great damage, not to mention the planet’s largest nuclear arsenal.
Oil revenues probably give them another decade at least where they are effectively immune to outside persuasion by economic means, even if sanctions can wreak economic damage.
It could become a dependency of China, in a similar manner to North Korea. That’s not the same thing as a vassal.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
I read it partly as an attempt at dark humour TBH and people need to lighten up a bit about that. On the other hand he does take the British Monarchy, Northern Irish loyalism and arguably religion far too seriously IMO.
Overall he is still a much better and more pleasant poster than others on here and still gives a relatively dispassionate view of Lab, Con and LD electoral fortunes.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
I read it partly as an attempt at dark humour TBH and people need to lighten up a bit about that. On the other hand he does take the British Monarchy, Northern Irish loyalism and arguably religion far too seriously IMO.
Overall he is still a much better and more pleasant poster than others on here and still gives a relatively dispassionate view of Lab, Con and LD electoral fortunes.
Northern Irish loyalism, to any Tory, IS the same thing as Scottish Unionism, though.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
Thought police? You're the one who tells people their conservatism isn't pure because they voted for another party decades ago. How dare you call someone else "thought police"?
I don't condemn people for their views and say they are not entitled to hold them unlike you.
Expressing what makes you a committed, ideological Conservative is another matter entirely
Nobody is saying you can't hold your views and you should come here to express them, but we have every right to condemn them also.
And you deluded if you think you are a typical conservative. You aren't thank goodness.
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
Thought police? You're the one who tells people their conservatism isn't pure because they voted for another party decades ago. How dare you call someone else "thought police"?
I don't condemn people for their views and say they are not entitled to hold them unlike you.
Expressing what makes you a committed, ideological Conservative is another matter entirely
Nobody is saying you can't hold your views and you should come here to express them, but we have every right to condemn them also.
And you deluded if you think you are a typical conservative. You aren't thank goodness.
Talking of tv, Slow Horses on Apple+ starring Gary Oldman, seems very promising. Its the sort of show the BBC used to make.
Hearing very good things about it, but not yet seen.
BTW, watched Ken Branagh's "Death on the Nile" last night. Just, why, Ken, why? Everything about it was far inferior to the David Suchet TV version of 2004.
The only interesting thing was a very nuanced performance by Russell Brand as the Doctor.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
What you telling me that teenagers with the infinite choice provided by YouTube and Twitch don't want to watch a linear tv channel with shows about people testing tractors....
It’s bizarre, really. They have re runs of Gavin and Stacey too. Can’t understand why they are not pulling in the punters.
Anybody with half a brain can see that linear tv is dying. As the likes of Netflix's hits with Squid Game, Queen's Gambit etc etc etc, if you make a really good show, people will find it on your streaming service. The idea that you need a dedicated linear channel, which you fill the overwhelming amount with repeats and absolute low end crap, is bonkers.
You don't need a dedicated channel in order to get yourself a hit show with da yuff. You just need to make a good show.
It is, but it is typical of the thinking of the BBC.
They just don’t change with the times. They never have.
They still expect to raise money via the license fee which is neither popular nor tenable for the future.
The BBC needs to grasp the nettle, look at what the future will be like and change to suit. Not just expect things to stay the same.
"They never have." Oh, really? Like I was watching TV last night and found that the chap reading the news was in evening dress, there was only one channel, it was black and white, and they shut down at 11 pm with the National Anthem?
HYUFD doesn’t pretend like most of the people that bully him day after day. Just let it go and leave the guy alone.
HYUFD is anti-democratic. He would be happy to see me, and thousands of others like me, imprisoned for our political views if that was necessary for his side to stay in power.
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Where have I said I would imprison people for their views? I am generally more tolerant of Corbynistas for example than most of the liberal and libertarian thought police on here when they are not trashing me
Exactly. HYUFD has a right to his opinions. I see no reason for anyone to feel threatened - if he was Prime Minister, there might be policies that would give cause for concern, but as things stand he's simply representing one of many viewpoints, and it's not illegal for him to hold them. Democracy includes not hassling people personally because they say things we don't agree with.
It's also verrrrry boring.
I'm surprised by you Nick. Yes HYUFD has a right to his views and a right to express them which he does fulsomely. We also have a right to oppose them which is what we are doing. I would have thought from your background you would be at the forefront of objecting to these types of views. As history tells us it is the failure to object to these types of views that enables them to take hold.
Nick has been called a Communist amongst other things on here. Occasionally worse.
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
I think it's your Scotland views where you lose the plot. Otherwise, true blue Tory with a trad bent and polling every day for breakfast.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
Naah, gonna have to show you thee red card there. Who actualy are you talking about? Because nobody who makes that accusation ever makes it good. Nobody here is "anti trans," that's just a hypothetical hate category, like saboteurs in Stalin's Russia. There's a certain amount of brutish simplicity in my proposed NO DICK spaces, but that doesn't make the proposal wrong.
The fact that I think the UK anti-apartheid movement was a load of posturing virtue-signalling wankers does not, while I am at it, mean that I am secretly in favour of racial segregation.
I think it unlikely the government will u-turn on free tests, if only because limiting testing will itself dramatically reduce the official numbers of cases and that will reduce the political effect of rising infections.
Well ... will it though?
That might have worked a century ago but nowadays with media awareness? It's not just anecdotal, but problems in industries like travel where infections are causing chaos (Dover, Heathrow) as well as schools and NHS trusts. My son's school had to shut the whole of last week because there was so much covid - they ran out of teachers. The scientists may get ridiculed but studies like ZOE, which the Gov't have pulled the plug on, are still reporting and they have a current daily infection estimate at 337,000. https://covid.joinzoe.com/
I think it's an incredibly dangerous political route to go down to think you can pull the wool over people's eyes and, effectively, gag the news. It smacks to me of the last vestiges of a party losing power, not to mention being rather Putinesque.
The right-wingers (I know it annoys people if I call them Far Right) are so hell-bent on pretending this thing has gone away that they've lost all sense of proportion and perspective.
The issue will always be capacity in the health care system. If things get bad in this respect, then the restrictions will come back. This is what a majority of people will accept.
I don't know about the "chaos" you describe - is it the disease that is causing chaos, or the requirement to test and isolate?
Also: the situation in Ukraine puts Covid in to context. The world doesn't stop turning and cannot be put on hold because of Covid.
Good morning
Why anyone takes @Heathener seriously I do not know
Because she often has interesting opinions, as do you, and PB is least interesting when we spend time slagging off other contributors, and focus instead on what they're saying. The mass assault on HYUFD on the last thread was excessive too - fine to deride his opinions, but I don't think we should spend time trying to label him.
It's possible that some contributors deliberately try to wind us up (not a novel phenomenon, cf. SeanT, malcolmg). A good response to that is not to be wound up.
The bullying of HYUFD has been going on for months. It’s utterly shameful to see it continue.
It is not bullying. It is making it clear that certain views which he advocates - including supporting the use of force against people whose only 'crime' is to want to vote - are unacceptable. He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum and if he is going to promulgate such views then he should expect to be attacked for them.
If we had a poster on here openly advocating repatriating all non whites or sterilising the disabled then I would fully expect them to be mercilessly challenged and castigated. I don't see some of HYUFD's views as being much different.
That is not bullying, it is common sense.
Given we have had holocaust deniers amongst others on here in the past rather absurd comparison.
It is of course this elected UK government's policy to refuse an indyref2, in Boris' own words for 40 years minimum. If Sturgeon held a wildcat referendum then we would be in a Spain Catalonia situation whether you liked it or not.
I consider you equally to often post extreme libertarian views, so what
We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands.
And the difference between us is that I do not advocate or support the use of violence to promote my political views. You do. Regularly.
Um no. Read what I wrote in both my responses here.
"He is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum"
"We do not, to my knowledge, have any holocaust deniers on here and have not for a considerable period of time so my statement stands."
Present tense.
2014 is (somewhat sadly) 8 years ago. I don't know when Rod finally stopped posting but it must be a good few years ago.
So again. My comment stands. HYUFD is by far and away the most extremist poster on this forum.
Rod was banned because he wouldn't stop derailing threads with his holocaust denial. I forget exactly when, but fairly confident it was pre-Brexit referendum.
I think you are correct. I started lurking at Brexit referendum time. And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
He was a very good poster, who from memory made some excellent predictions.
The thing is, we all have our little interests and obsessions, things we will not back down on. It was just that his was a little... odd.
Yes, it was a real shame. He was an outstandingly good poster but had this peculiar fixation with the holocaust.
It's in the nature of the Site though that people come and go for all sorts of reasons. I miss the departed - Charles, Tpfkar, Augus Carp and many others - but there is no shortage of replacements and it helps to keep the discussion fresh, and its character changing.
My highly subjective impression is that the Site is as good now as it has ever been in terms of overall quality and range of expression. Mike must be doing something right.
Yes, the mix of longtermers, transients, the waxing and waning of individuals, the rebirths and rebadges and flounces, it's all good imo. And of course another integral part of the mix is people disagreeing with this and saying it *isn't* all good, that it'd be better if ... etc etc.
Comments
From your side it is increasingly just a personal vendetta against me, as shown by your obsessive posts over the last 24 hours hurling allegations of Fascism at me
Anne Applebaum
@anneapplebaum
Everyone who now calls for Zelensky to make "territorial concessions' in exchange for a cease fire should remember what this will actually mean: tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians will die.
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1510417515280748553
- Doxing people is always wrong. All the justifications - "But in this case it is right..." are horseshit
- Anyone using a VPN that terminates with a fixed IP address belonging to a compromised PC has a very strange and very worrying security problem. They should change their VPN immediately, and should wipe their computer and start again from a bare operating system install.
1. What is the child survival rate to 15?
2. How many competent Health Visitors/Family Planning nurses do they have?
I might disagree politically with a lot of other posters here, and sometimes the things they say might upset me, because of the degree to which I think their views will lead to suffering for others - but only HYUFD has left me feeling scared for my liberty.
I will stand up for democratic norms against someone like HYUFD, and that is not bullying. Nor is it bullying to insist on proper use of facts, where HYUFD has a way of denying basic aspects of reality.
Anyone saying that Bucha is the result of brutalisation or rogue behaviour is wrong. This was the plan. It was pre-meditated. It is consistent with Russian methods in Chechnya. And if the Russian military had been more successful there would have been many more towns like it. 2/4
This context - in which the Ukrainians knew that there were troops preparing to perpetrate acts like this, with the Kremlin describing Ukrainian identity as an accident of history - also explains why Ukrainian resistence has been so fierce. They see the stakes as existential. 3/4
People calling for a specific response to Bucha are taking an atrocity out of its context. The response should be to ensure that Ukrainians can defeat the invasion through steady and systemic assistance. The volume and speed of kit delivered matters. 4/4
https://twitter.com/Jack_Watling/status/1510391442170068996
Do you consider this drivel before you post it? Not public? Because of some arbitrary definition you’ve just dreamed up? You’re bonkers.
Why do we refer to Bejing and Mumbai but not Roma, Beograd or Lisboa? Particularly in the case of Bejing/Peking where the two names are actually the same, it is just a case of saying/spelling it differently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60948439
People really, really like having sex, and if you have sex a lot (and don't have contraception) then you will end up with lots of babies. If you have access to contraception then you can have sex without babies, which is just as well as babies get in the way of having more sex.
QED
The confusing part is why some people still have babies.
There is one quick way of solving some of our economic woes of course, but it won't happen because the government can't admit that its central policy is a failure, even though that is obvious to any neutral observer.
Please don’t reply to me again. I’ve no interest in indulging your desire to engage in pointless arguments.
And whilst the 'energy establishment' may have 'caused' the problems (albeit we buy their products), they have given us the rather good (generally) living standards we have. I'd also argue the solutions to the crisis lie more with them than with the eco-activists.
These ***** blocking refineries do more harm than good.
It's also verrrrry boring.
And I don't recall him or his holocaust denial.
Bayern Munich OTOH...
Fun fact: in Italian Munich is Monaco [di Baviera]
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/profile/RodCrosby
He was a very good poster, who from memory made some excellent predictions.
The thing is, we all have our little interests and obsessions, things we will not back down on. It was just that his was a little... odd.
ETA and Milan is nothing to do with local dialects. Per wiki: AC Milan was founded as Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket Club in 1899 by English expatriates Alfred Edwards and Herbert Kilpin.
Samuel Beckett
Joseph Brodsky
Emil Cioran
Eva Hoffman
Romain Gary
Jack Kerouac
Agota Kristof
Milan Kundera
Alistair MacLean
Yann Martel
Vladimir Nabokov
Björn and Benny
Then what? Will there be treaty? Will either side respect it? A ceasefire? A continuing hot war? A frozen conflict? Will Russia become Iran or North Korea? Will Ukraine continue to function? How much support will it get from the US and Europe? Will China, India and the Arab states align to Russia against America?
Seems like a lot of questions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/02/government-talks-build-hundreds-mini-nuclear-reactors-across/
Never even had the courtesy of a response.
Covid tests cost money.
So they will be paid for either by the user or by higher taxes.
Fucking hell. Tidal is around £50 - £55.
It's in the nature of the Site though that people come and go for all sorts of reasons. I miss the departed - Charles, Tpfkar, Augus Carp and many others - but there is no shortage of replacements and it helps to keep the discussion fresh, and its character changing.
My highly subjective impression is that the Site is as good now as it has ever been in terms of overall quality and range of expression. Mike must be doing something right.
BBC Three returned to TV guides on February 1 much to the dismay of some viewers, who branded the £80 million move a 'total waste of money' and a 'misuse of the licence fee'. Now, it has been revealed that many of its shows have completely flopped after drawing in dire audience figures south of 50,000, with only one programme in a recent week attracting over 100,000.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10680249/BBC-Threes-80m-launch-sees-50-000-viewers-tune-watch-flagship-shows.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680255/Five-young-agitators-Just-Stop-Oil-protest-misery.html
All of this in spite of continual plugs on BBC One for shows on BBC 3, often in prime slots. A channel aimed at a demographic who consumes their media in a different way. The BBC has not got a clue.
The issue of 'free' tests as with anything 'free' is merely the consumer pointing at someone else and saying "make them pay instead of me".
The govt needs to be seen to be doing something
This is something
I often disagree with him but he has a right to his views exactly as I do and everyone else does on here as long as they are legal.
Without the pile on from thought police like you
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/03/grim-toll-at-shrewsbury-symptom-of-public-sector-that-doesnt-listen-to-users
Sonia Sodha was senior adviser to Ed Miliband.
It's academic anyway. If Nimbies regularly succeed in blocking fifty Barratt boxes here or a windmill there then the chances of modular reactors ever being built are precisely zero. A nuclear power plant isn't generally considered to be beneficial to local house prices.
Expressing what makes you a committed, ideological Conservative is another matter entirely
You don't need a dedicated channel in order to get yourself a hit show with da yuff. You just need to make a show that resonates with them and put it on iPlayer.
And one (imo) very positive thing about you I'd like to put on record having noticed - an absence of brutish, simple simon interventions on 'trans'.
It is noticeable that you often don't understand posts.
https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
They just don’t change with the times. They never have.
They still expect to raise money via the license fee which is neither popular nor tenable for the future.
The BBC needs to grasp the nettle, look at what the future will be like and change to suit. Not just expect things to stay the same.
They are not actually interested in discussing issues or politics or polls just personal vendetta. It is becoming tedious and the site is becoming duller as a result.
Some like Charles have already left because it got too personal about them. Others will no doubt follow unless it ends
Mostly we just have people trying to make sense of a complex situation. The great thing about this site is often when someone gets something wrong, someone with more knowledge pops up to politely correct them. And we all learn.
I wonder a little that nobody has suggested rhetoric as an art - or David Lloyd George. He certainly had a skill in his second language.
As it happens, there are a small number of other posters whose views I do find really obnoxious. Guess what? Nobody would know. Why? Because I just ignore them.
Overall he is still a much better and more pleasant poster than others on here and still gives a relatively dispassionate view of Lab, Con and LD electoral fortunes.
You’re right that the invasion will be massively costly, perhaps disastrous for Russia. But they still retain the military capacity to do great damage, not to mention the planet’s largest nuclear arsenal.
Oil revenues probably give them another decade at least where they are effectively immune to outside persuasion by economic means, even if sanctions can wreak economic damage.
It could become a dependency of China, in a similar manner to North Korea. That’s not the same thing as a vassal.
https://twitter.com/UkraineNewsUK/status/1510568077167140869
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18129874/labour-ahead-of-tories-shock-poll/
And you deluded if you think you are a typical conservative. You aren't thank goodness.
And you deluded if you think you are a typical conservative. You aren't thank goodness.
BTW, watched Ken Branagh's "Death on the Nile" last night. Just, why, Ken, why? Everything about it was far inferior to the David Suchet TV version of 2004.
The only interesting thing was a very nuanced performance by Russell Brand as the Doctor.
Give it a miss.
The fact that I think the UK anti-apartheid movement was a load of posturing virtue-signalling wankers does not, while I am at it, mean that I am secretly in favour of racial segregation.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html