Johnson’s failure to apologise for party-gate is making matters worse – politicalbetting.com

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

I love the way you start with something vaguely rooted in fact, and then veer off at the end.

If you are correct, btw, then we should start to see that French IQs rise relative to everywhere else, as France is the only country in the world where birth rate correlates positively with income and education levels (due to the country's rather sensible pronatal policies).

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

@TSE will be along shortly to explain that doesn't matter as it's from such a low base...

theelephant said:

Cookie said:

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

My understanding - and I don't have the stats to hand - is that in general the rich have more kids than the poor, and that the balance of rich kids/poor kids is currently more skewed towards rich kids than at any time in British history. I may be wrong and am too cold to look up the details.

mmm if you are talking about jacob rees mogg...hedge fund level of wealth yes that might be true....these families can afford nannies and or a stay at home wife....im talking more about the broad middle class saddled with mortgage debt

Do you have any data?

This piece from the US suggests that in the last 30 years the traditional relationship you posit (i.e. lower income more kids, higher income fewer kids) has actually reversed:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10887-018-9160-8

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

I'm more interested to discover https://xkcd.com/what-if-2/

A follow up to his hit book What If? I bought many people copies of it as a stocking filler.

MoonRabbit said:

NorthofStoke said:

JosiasJessop said:

bigjohnowls said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

TimS said:

JosiasJessop said:

BigRich said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

I cant read the article paywall, (unless somebody has a good workaround?)

but it is interesting how its much more pronounced in the USA middling in France and very small in UK.

Leaving the contrary's defences aside, is this mostly a difference of weather you have a memory of the cold war? maybe?

I think Salisbury is a major effect in the UK. Despite all the talk about oligarchs, we've ben fairly bullish against Russia since at least before Crimea/Donbass/MH17, and all the major parties generally agree about that. Whereas in the US, you have the Donald backing Russia, so it splits on partisan divides.

Well except there's no partisan divide in the US survey results. That's the most interesting thing. Perhaps because the young are influenced by the extreme left and the old by the extreme right, both of which are full of Putin apologists?

Thanks, didn't know that. It does make it more interesting...

As I've said in various posts, the far left in Western Europe have really gone off Russia (to the extent that they were ever fans) - everyone from Corbyn and McDonnell in Britain to the Linke in Germany is supporting Ukraine. That doesn't mean that the left is suddenly signed up to the whole NATO/commercial globalisation agenda, merely that this is so like a classic imperialist war that it's impossible for even hardened leftists to accept as a reasonable way to pursue territorial disputes. In the US, alienation from the whole political establishment may be stronger on both far left and far right, so that if Biden and Congress think Russia are bad, it follows that they must be good? Most people don't really do alienation to that degree in Britain, even on the political wings - neither Farage nor Corbyn are really screaming "Down with the whole system".

Is Corbyn 'supporting' Ukraine? Was he in the build-up to the war, or did he think the west were 'poking' Russia into invading?

He has been far more critical of Putin than Blair and Mandelson and Johnson and Cameron for years now.

No Socialist would support Putin he is a tin pot Capitalist dictator

Oh, go away. Jeremy Corbyn signed the Stop The War statement on the war.

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/list-of-signatories-stop-the-war-statement-on-the-crisis-over-ukraine/

One that said there should not be a war for one paragraph, and then spent the rest of the document blaming 'us' for the war, and essentially said Ukraine should not defend itself.

"Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes."

"We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."

Yes, Corbyn blames *us* for the war. As did Nick Palmer, of this parish.

Why this pisses me off: it is rare in international relations to get such a clear-cut case of right versus wrong; good versus evil. And yet Corbyn and his fellow bottom-feeders look at blaming us for Putin's evil.

There is one person to blame for this evil: Putin. Do you agree?

Thanks for drawing our attention to that petition. A sickening self-identified list of people so ideologically rigid that they can't recognise a clear cut case of imperialist aggression and war crimes. The bastards all think they have greater moral stature and insight than the rest of us!

That’s off your chest now.

What’s for supper?

Do you back Stop The War's initial position on the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

kle4 said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

I'm more interested to discover https://xkcd.com/what-if-2/

A follow up to his hit book What If? I bought many people copies of it as a stocking filler.

I hate it when people announce books I won't be able to buy FOR SIX MONTHS.

kle4 said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

I'm more interested to discover https://xkcd.com/what-if-2/

A follow up to his hit book What If? I bought many people copies of it as a stocking filler.

What If? is great. I like the one where he basically just stacks all the elements of the periodic table beside each other and then explains how the reaction unfolds.

Sally Gunnell puts her head above the parapet on trans sports people.

https://twitter.com/sallygunnell/status/1509176194440347654?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

JosiasJessop said:

bigjohnowls said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

TimS said:

JosiasJessop said:

BigRich said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

I cant read the article paywall, (unless somebody has a good workaround?)

but it is interesting how its much more pronounced in the USA middling in France and very small in UK.

Leaving the contrary's defences aside, is this mostly a difference of weather you have a memory of the cold war? maybe?

I think Salisbury is a major effect in the UK. Despite all the talk about oligarchs, we've ben fairly bullish against Russia since at least before Crimea/Donbass/MH17, and all the major parties generally agree about that. Whereas in the US, you have the Donald backing Russia, so it splits on partisan divides.

Well except there's no partisan divide in the US survey results. That's the most interesting thing. Perhaps because the young are influenced by the extreme left and the old by the extreme right, both of which are full of Putin apologists?

Thanks, didn't know that. It does make it more interesting...

As I've said in various posts, the far left in Western Europe have really gone off Russia (to the extent that they were ever fans) - everyone from Corbyn and McDonnell in Britain to the Linke in Germany is supporting Ukraine. That doesn't mean that the left is suddenly signed up to the whole NATO/commercial globalisation agenda, merely that this is so like a classic imperialist war that it's impossible for even hardened leftists to accept as a reasonable way to pursue territorial disputes. In the US, alienation from the whole political establishment may be stronger on both far left and far right, so that if Biden and Congress think Russia are bad, it follows that they must be good? Most people don't really do alienation to that degree in Britain, even on the political wings - neither Farage nor Corbyn are really screaming "Down with the whole system".

Is Corbyn 'supporting' Ukraine? Was he in the build-up to the war, or did he think the west were 'poking' Russia into invading?

He has been far more critical of Putin than Blair and Mandelson and Johnson and Cameron for years now.

No Socialist would support Putin he is a tin pot Capitalist dictator

Oh, go away. Jeremy Corbyn signed the Stop The War statement on the war.

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/list-of-signatories-stop-the-war-statement-on-the-crisis-over-ukraine/

One that said there should not be a war for one paragraph, and then spent the rest of the document blaming 'us' for the war, and essentially said Ukraine should not defend itself.

"Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes."

"We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."

Only in Commie fantasy land is supplying defensive weapons to a country that has been invaded twice in a decade "aggressive posturing" and "pouring oil on the fire"

And they wonder why people call them the Loony Left...

NickPalmer said:

Omnium said:

Hang on Dr P. You were quite one of the far left until recently.

Sure, if you define far left as "supported Corbyn". That's why I'm fairly well-informed about the sector. I've supported democratic leftism (which I think of as help the underdog stuff) all my life - I just draw the line at dictatorships and aggressors, whatever ideology they purport to espouse. Ultimately they usually turn out to be about themselves.

People like me don't share the idea that because this is clearly an aggressive war reminiscent of classic imperialism, therefore every action of the West has been sensible. I think we've made various mistakes in handling Russia, both in indulging and even assisting its path to gangster kleptocracy and in rushing NATO to the border at the first opportunity.

Does that justify Putin launching a war? Of course it doesn't. The war is a monstrosity, and it's Putin's monstrosity, not ours.

Nick, with absolutely no respect that's bullshit. It doesn't matter if we've made mistakes: the cause of this tragic war is the classic imperialism and fascism shown by Putin. Whatever we did, bar capitulate, he would have done this. It is what he wants.

In fact, you can argue it the other way: if the 'west' had been stronger - say over the use of chemical weapons in Syria - this tragedy might have been avoided.

So people should not be talking of how we 'poked' Russia. Or of incorrect b/s about guarantees about NATO not extending Eastwards (which is wrong both factually and morally). Or Nazis in Ukraine. They should be talking about Putin's evil. Anything else is deliberately muddying the waters.

Putin's war for Ukraine is one of imperial expansionism. When was the last war where a country actually wanted to incorporate a country? Iraq over Kuwait?

Scott_xP said:

rottenborough said:

As an aside, it seems Genesis played their last ever gig on Saturday.

Again?

Harsh, but fair comment.

tlg86 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Leon said:

A YES vote in Scotland seemed impossible - until it became highly possible, and David Cameron started weeping on live TV. A Brexit vote seemed ludicrously unlikely - I recall Richard Nabavi predicting it would be 70/30 Remain - and then Brexit won
[snip]

I think it's easy to forget just what a complete shambles the Leave campaign was just a few months before the referendum, especially during that hilarious time when Bernard Jenkin and other Tory Brexiteers tried to get Dominic Cummings sacked from Vote Leave, and ended up having to ask him how to do it, before changing their minds, but then Cummings and Matthew Elliott resigned from the board anyway:

https://www.businessinsider.com/matthew-elliott-and-dominic-cummings-exit-vote-leave-board-2016-2

I think it was probably around then that I posted that I thought that my long-term prediction of Remain winning by 60:40 might be over-cautious and that it could be 70:30.

So, yes, more uncertainty than one tends to think, but there's a bit of a difference compared with the French election in that a referendum is a one-off, whereas in regular elections you can look at how voters behaved in previous contests. No guarantee that it won't be different this time, but previously Le Pen has lost vote share in the final round compared with the polling.

You called it badly wrong but I thought the Leave campaign was an embarrassment.

I basically took matters into my own hands.

Thing is, you never know what the other side is like. Hindsight is 20:20, but the Remain campaign was atrocious.

It was ineffective and talking to itself but it was more professionally run.

tlg86 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Leon said:

A YES vote in Scotland seemed impossible - until it became highly possible, and David Cameron started weeping on live TV. A Brexit vote seemed ludicrously unlikely - I recall Richard Nabavi predicting it would be 70/30 Remain - and then Brexit won
[snip]

I think it's easy to forget just what a complete shambles the Leave campaign was just a few months before the referendum, especially during that hilarious time when Bernard Jenkin and other Tory Brexiteers tried to get Dominic Cummings sacked from Vote Leave, and ended up having to ask him how to do it, before changing their minds, but then Cummings and Matthew Elliott resigned from the board anyway:

https://www.businessinsider.com/matthew-elliott-and-dominic-cummings-exit-vote-leave-board-2016-2

I think it was probably around then that I posted that I thought that my long-term prediction of Remain winning by 60:40 might be over-cautious and that it could be 70:30.

So, yes, more uncertainty than one tends to think, but there's a bit of a difference compared with the French election in that a referendum is a one-off, whereas in regular elections you can look at how voters behaved in previous contests. No guarantee that it won't be different this time, but previously Le Pen has lost vote share in the final round compared with the polling.

You called it badly wrong but I thought the Leave campaign was an embarrassment.

I basically took matters into my own hands.

Thing is, you never know what the other side is like. Hindsight is 20:20, but the Remain campaign was atrocious.

One of democracy's low points for sure.

MoonRabbit said:

JosiasJessop said:

MoonRabbit said:

NorthofStoke said:

JosiasJessop said:

bigjohnowls said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

TimS said:

JosiasJessop said:

BigRich said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

I cant read the article paywall, (unless somebody has a good workaround?)

but it is interesting how its much more pronounced in the USA middling in France and very small in UK.

Leaving the contrary's defences aside, is this mostly a difference of weather you have a memory of the cold war? maybe?

I think Salisbury is a major effect in the UK. Despite all the talk about oligarchs, we've ben fairly bullish against Russia since at least before Crimea/Donbass/MH17, and all the major parties generally agree about that. Whereas in the US, you have the Donald backing Russia, so it splits on partisan divides.

Well except there's no partisan divide in the US survey results. That's the most interesting thing. Perhaps because the young are influenced by the extreme left and the old by the extreme right, both of which are full of Putin apologists?

Thanks, didn't know that. It does make it more interesting...

As I've said in various posts, the far left in Western Europe have really gone off Russia (to the extent that they were ever fans) - everyone from Corbyn and McDonnell in Britain to the Linke in Germany is supporting Ukraine. That doesn't mean that the left is suddenly signed up to the whole NATO/commercial globalisation agenda, merely that this is so like a classic imperialist war that it's impossible for even hardened leftists to accept as a reasonable way to pursue territorial disputes. In the US, alienation from the whole political establishment may be stronger on both far left and far right, so that if Biden and Congress think Russia are bad, it follows that they must be good? Most people don't really do alienation to that degree in Britain, even on the political wings - neither Farage nor Corbyn are really screaming "Down with the whole system".

Is Corbyn 'supporting' Ukraine? Was he in the build-up to the war, or did he think the west were 'poking' Russia into invading?

He has been far more critical of Putin than Blair and Mandelson and Johnson and Cameron for years now.

No Socialist would support Putin he is a tin pot Capitalist dictator

Oh, go away. Jeremy Corbyn signed the Stop The War statement on the war.

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/list-of-signatories-stop-the-war-statement-on-the-crisis-over-ukraine/

One that said there should not be a war for one paragraph, and then spent the rest of the document blaming 'us' for the war, and essentially said Ukraine should not defend itself.

"Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes."

"We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."

Yes, Corbyn blames *us* for the war. As did Nick Palmer, of this parish.

Why this pisses me off: it is rare in international relations to get such a clear-cut case of right versus wrong; good versus evil. And yet Corbyn and his fellow bottom-feeders look at blaming us for Putin's evil.

There is one person to blame for this evil: Putin. Do you agree?

Thanks for drawing our attention to that petition. A sickening self-identified list of people so ideologically rigid that they can't recognise a clear cut case of imperialist aggression and war crimes. The bastards all think they have greater moral stature and insight than the rest of us!

That’s off your chest now.

What’s for supper?

Do you back Stop The War's initial position on the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

Is that an actual question to me 🙂

Yes.

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

He could have sent all his troops there and smashed the Ukrainian forces.

I don't for one minute believe he wasn't going for regime change in Kyiv. He got smacked upside the head by the shit nature of his military's planning, their kit being woefully unready to face the Ukrainian defenders - and a world that said "No!"

Foxy said:

MarqueeMark said:

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

He could have sent all his troops there and smashed the Ukrainian forces.

I don't for one minute believe he wasn't going for regime change in Kyiv. He got smacked upside the head by the shit nature of his military's planning, their kit being woefully unready to face the Ukrainian defenders - and a world that said "No!"

The Russian Army used to be the second best in the world. Now it is the second best in Ukraine.

Aren't you rating the Chechens a bit low there?

theelephant said:

tlg86 said:

theelephant said:

Cookie said:

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

My understanding - and I don't have the stats to hand - is that in general the rich have more kids than the poor, and that the balance of rich kids/poor kids is currently more skewed towards rich kids than at any time in British history. I may be wrong and am too cold to look up the details.

mmm if you are talking about jacob rees mogg...hedge fund level of wealth yes that might be true....these families can afford nannies and or a stay at home wife....im talking more about the broad middle class saddled with mortgage debt

Nope, I reckon it’s those unable to get a mortgage who are having fewer kids.

exactly...the middle class renters priced out by high house prices....not the people living on welfare on council estates

Though child benefit is now capped after 2 children

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

Omnium said:

Hang on Dr P. You were quite one of the far left until recently.

Sure, if you define far left as "supported Corbyn". That's why I'm fairly well-informed about the sector. I've supported democratic leftism (which I think of as help the underdog stuff) all my life - I just draw the line at dictatorships and aggressors, whatever ideology they purport to espouse. Ultimately they usually turn out to be about themselves.

People like me don't share the idea that because this is clearly an aggressive war reminiscent of classic imperialism, therefore every action of the West has been sensible. I think we've made various mistakes in handling Russia, both in indulging and even assisting its path to gangster kleptocracy and in rushing NATO to the border at the first opportunity.

Does that justify Putin launching a war? Of course it doesn't. The war is a monstrosity, and it's Putin's monstrosity, not ours.

Nick, with absolutely no respect that's bullshit. It doesn't matter if we've made mistakes: the cause of this tragic war is the classic imperialism and fascism shown by Putin. Whatever we did, bar capitulate, he would have done this. It is what he wants.

In fact, you can argue it the other way: if the 'west' had been stronger - say over the use of chemical weapons in Syria - this tragedy might have been avoided.

So people should not be talking of how we 'poked' Russia. Or of incorrect b/s about guarantees about NATO not extending Eastwards (which is wrong both factually and morally). Or Nazis in Ukraine. They should be talking about Putin's evil. Anything else is deliberately muddying the waters.

Putin's war for Ukraine is one of imperial expansionism. When was the last war where a country actually wanted to incorporate a country? Iraq over Kuwait?

Yes, exactly. How does that differ from what I said? I say we made mistakes but the war is classic imperialism. You say it doesn't matter if we've made mistakes, it's classic imperialism. You say that now the evil war has started, we shouldn't still be going on about past mistakes. I agree, and since the war started I've only mentioned them when someone asked what others on the left had been saying. We tend to be on opposite sides (I remember your mad love for HS2), but on this one we actually agree.

The point is *exactly* what you say, and the emphasis.

The emphasis should be on Putin's evil. That is the cause of this war. By saying 'we made mistakes', and I'd argue by even mentioning it, you are excusing, or relieving the evil of, the latter.

Throughout this, you have been keen to stress *our* perceived wrongdoings. You are mostly wrong about them, morally, and factually, but they are also effing irrelevant. You muddy the waters. As you're an intelligent chap, I'll give you the benefit of saying you do so deliberately.

It is like someone blaming Britain for World War Two because Chamberlain appeased Hitler.

Take your point on NATO. Have you considered how stupid that is? The states in eastern Europe are democratic states. They should be free to decide what groups they are a member of, without the threat of war or nuclear oblivion from a larger, bullying neighbour. That's democracy and self-determination.

*Even* if you were right about guarantees given to Russia in the early 1990s (I believe you are not), then why should that constrain what those states do thirty years later? Why does Russia get a veto? How long does that veto last? Fifty years? A hundred? A thousand?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am not perfect, I have never claimed to be. But I have been open about my struggles in the hope it might help other people. Most here are extremely pleasant and despite the opinions of some, I get on very well with people I disagree with in general.

I will apologise for calling Leon dumb.

Calling people dumb is mild as these things go, don't beat yourself up.

kle4 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am not perfect, I have never claimed to be. But I have been open about my struggles in the hope it might help other people. Most here are extremely pleasant and despite the opinions of some, I get on very well with people I disagree with in general.

I will apologise for calling Leon dumb.

Calling people dumb is mild as these things go, don't beat yourself up.

I think what you mean is: you'd be dumb for beating yourself up about it, you dumbo.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am not perfect, I have never claimed to be. But I have been open about my struggles in the hope it might help other people. Most here are extremely pleasant and despite the opinions of some, I get on very well with people I disagree with in general.

I will apologise for calling Leon dumb.

He gives it out and takes it too. But yes polite is good when we can manage it.

Foxy said:

MarqueeMark said:

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

He could have sent all his troops there and smashed the Ukrainian forces.

I don't for one minute believe he wasn't going for regime change in Kyiv. He got smacked upside the head by the shit nature of his military's planning, their kit being woefully unready to face the Ukrainian defenders - and a world that said "No!"

The Russian Army used to be the second best in the world. Now it is the second best in Ukraine.

second best in Ukraine?

I would suggest

1) Ukrainians Foreign legion
2) Ukrainian regular army
3) Chechen army
4) Russian army.

(if you count the Ukrainian Farmers Union then maybe 5th)

rcs1000 said:

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

The bit I don't buy in this scenario is the "drop 1,000 elite paratroopers at the airport". Because they were literally all killed or captured.

And those are some of Russia's finest troops.

'Were' some, Mr Smithson, not 'are' some.

rcs1000 said:

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

The bit I don't buy in this scenario is the "drop 1,000 elite paratroopers at the airport". Because they were literally all killed or captured.

And those are some of Russia's finest troops.

But to control the air, for whatever mission it is, you sieze or destroy all enemy airfields?

Isn’t this how Israelis so successful in their Arab wars, so quickly taking out planes on ground and the airfields?

Still a week away from publication of nominations but it seems Labour have replaced two of the three sitting Councillors in my Ward.

https://www.opennewham.co.uk/news/labour-has-chosen

As to the individual at the bottom of the article, where Open Newham say "who?" - he was the labour candidate for York Outer at the 2017 GE at just 21 years of age.

theelephant said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

tlg86 said:

theelephant said:

Cookie said:

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

My understanding - and I don't have the stats to hand - is that in general the rich have more kids than the poor, and that the balance of rich kids/poor kids is currently more skewed towards rich kids than at any time in British history. I may be wrong and am too cold to look up the details.

mmm if you are talking about jacob rees mogg...hedge fund level of wealth yes that might be true....these families can afford nannies and or a stay at home wife....im talking more about the broad middle class saddled with mortgage debt

Nope, I reckon it’s those unable to get a mortgage who are having fewer kids.

exactly...the middle class renters priced out by high house prices....not the people living on welfare on council estates

You're making a lot of assumptions, and you haven't really backed it up with data.

Now, it may be true. It may not be true. But right now it's just an assertion.

im not dogmatic in my thinking.....but if there has been a reversal of the trend in the last 10 years as Foxy says that is too soon to show up in iq stats so even if foxy is correct on the last 10 years my argument on dysgenic breeding still stands as an explanation for declining iq over the last 30 years or so

I don't know if there's a trend, because we don't have proper data.

I can certainly posit a trend, and I can certainly tell a plausible story.

But the danger is that the story and the data might not match up. And then we're arguing based on something that sure sounds plausible... but might not actually be... you know... true.

As I say to my employees: "give me data, guys"

JosiasJessop said:

MoonRabbit said:

JosiasJessop said:

MoonRabbit said:

NorthofStoke said:

JosiasJessop said:

bigjohnowls said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

TimS said:

JosiasJessop said:

BigRich said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

I cant read the article paywall, (unless somebody has a good workaround?)

but it is interesting how its much more pronounced in the USA middling in France and very small in UK.

Leaving the contrary's defences aside, is this mostly a difference of weather you have a memory of the cold war? maybe?

I think Salisbury is a major effect in the UK. Despite all the talk about oligarchs, we've ben fairly bullish against Russia since at least before Crimea/Donbass/MH17, and all the major parties generally agree about that. Whereas in the US, you have the Donald backing Russia, so it splits on partisan divides.

Well except there's no partisan divide in the US survey results. That's the most interesting thing. Perhaps because the young are influenced by the extreme left and the old by the extreme right, both of which are full of Putin apologists?

Thanks, didn't know that. It does make it more interesting...

As I've said in various posts, the far left in Western Europe have really gone off Russia (to the extent that they were ever fans) - everyone from Corbyn and McDonnell in Britain to the Linke in Germany is supporting Ukraine. That doesn't mean that the left is suddenly signed up to the whole NATO/commercial globalisation agenda, merely that this is so like a classic imperialist war that it's impossible for even hardened leftists to accept as a reasonable way to pursue territorial disputes. In the US, alienation from the whole political establishment may be stronger on both far left and far right, so that if Biden and Congress think Russia are bad, it follows that they must be good? Most people don't really do alienation to that degree in Britain, even on the political wings - neither Farage nor Corbyn are really screaming "Down with the whole system".

Is Corbyn 'supporting' Ukraine? Was he in the build-up to the war, or did he think the west were 'poking' Russia into invading?

He has been far more critical of Putin than Blair and Mandelson and Johnson and Cameron for years now.

No Socialist would support Putin he is a tin pot Capitalist dictator

Oh, go away. Jeremy Corbyn signed the Stop The War statement on the war.

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/list-of-signatories-stop-the-war-statement-on-the-crisis-over-ukraine/

One that said there should not be a war for one paragraph, and then spent the rest of the document blaming 'us' for the war, and essentially said Ukraine should not defend itself.

"Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes."

"We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."

Yes, Corbyn blames *us* for the war. As did Nick Palmer, of this parish.

Why this pisses me off: it is rare in international relations to get such a clear-cut case of right versus wrong; good versus evil. And yet Corbyn and his fellow bottom-feeders look at blaming us for Putin's evil.

There is one person to blame for this evil: Putin. Do you agree?

Thanks for drawing our attention to that petition. A sickening self-identified list of people so ideologically rigid that they can't recognise a clear cut case of imperialist aggression and war crimes. The bastards all think they have greater moral stature and insight than the rest of us!

That’s off your chest now.

What’s for supper?

Do you back Stop The War's initial position on the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

Is that an actual question to me 🙂

Yes.

This is the first time I’ve seen it, read to answer your question. It’s great getting a question. I agreed with absolutely all of that letter, up to the point in the first sentence it said address Russia’s security concerns - there are no security concerns that could have been addressed to prevent or stop this war, Putin started warbling on about Ukraine not existing, it was invented by Stalin, Ukraine Nationalists are Nazi’s he needs a Kill all Nazi’s operation. So all the rest of that letter was all UK internal domestic lefty posturing, In fact, Russians now in Ukraine as the aggressor, fellow eastern Slavs are dead, some tonight only have sewage to eat and drink - a lot of Russian people have been taking a harder line against Putin than this letter does, because they understand it a darn sight better than these signatories do, given a blank map, most those signatories couldn’t even place their fingers on Ukraine. It’s the anti Putin Russians I would sign a letter in support of, that’s who I stand with - the second they replace Putin I will be first to call for death to all sanctions on Russia.

To say war is horrible so stop the war, is a very glib position. However, I posted a few weeks ago I supported Blair trying to stop militia in Kosovo, and freeing the falklands, and even standing up to the USA with suez operation, but I have changed my thoughts about being so gung ho about war. If a win win situation can be achieved by negotiations to prevent or stop conflicts I have become very much in favour of that having experienced this war for myself rather than just read about them. Too many ordinary everyday people suffer, so much everlasting sadness on people and families has happened in space of just a month. It’s all on my mind now. I blame Putin for mad ideas in this one, but each conflict has to be measured as unique case, best prevented if possible.

My reply to Stoke was trying to do the Death of Stalin joke, that’s all. 😆

UK’s own history of 20th century conflicts contains a lot of bad moments because of rethinking British Empire as it crumbled in our hands.

PS and I have only ever flagged one post, and that was when the Russian bot said “everything in position, pray for the occupants of Kiev tonight” like Lord Haw Haw. I was actually praying for them anyway, and I felt the bot demeaned something important.

rcs1000 said:

Taz said:

The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

The bit I don't buy in this scenario is the "drop 1,000 elite paratroopers at the airport". Because they were literally all killed or captured.

And those are some of Russia's finest troops.

What a shambles. Whoever was responsible for the planning made a major error.

darkage said:

JosiasJessop said:

It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.

Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.

rottenborough said:

TimT said:

rcs1000 said:

TimT said:

JosiasJessop said:

As an aside, someone in NASA was tasked to write the operational history of the Shuttle after its last flight in 2011. He had a few interns to help him with the work. They assembled a draft, and asked the interns to read it, looking for any terms they did not understand and which needed explanation. The idea being that the history might be a little too technical.

One of the interns asked: "What is the Cold War?"

Despite bring bright enough to get an internship at NASA, she did not know about the Cold War. Which had ended just twenty years earlier...

Many modern kids probably know less about it.

In 1974, my maths teacher came into school in the morning with a flabbergasted look on her face. She asked us, (15-year olds) if we knew which band Paul McCartney played in. We all knew, of course. What had flabbergasted her was that, talking with her young nephew the night before, he had asked her, "Auntie, did you know that Paul McCartney used to play in a band called the Beatles?"

I never had you pegged as a Wings fan.

LOL. I was not. Couldn't stand them. To my eternal shame, I was a Genesis and ELP fan at that time.

But Band on the Run was doing well in the charts at the time. Which I guess is why the nephew knew who Paul McCartney was.

As an aside, it seems Genesis played their last ever gig on Saturday.

Turn it on, turn it on again.

theelephant said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

tlg86 said:

theelephant said:

Cookie said:

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

theelephant said:

Stark_Dawning said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

Sterilize the poor!

My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

My understanding - and I don't have the stats to hand - is that in general the rich have more kids than the poor, and that the balance of rich kids/poor kids is currently more skewed towards rich kids than at any time in British history. I may be wrong and am too cold to look up the details.

mmm if you are talking about jacob rees mogg...hedge fund level of wealth yes that might be true....these families can afford nannies and or a stay at home wife....im talking more about the broad middle class saddled with mortgage debt

Nope, I reckon it’s those unable to get a mortgage who are having fewer kids.

exactly...the middle class renters priced out by high house prices....not the people living on welfare on council estates

You're making a lot of assumptions, and you haven't really backed it up with data.

Now, it may be true. It may not be true. But right now it's just an assertion.

im not dogmatic in my thinking.....but if there has been a reversal of the trend in the last 10 years as Foxy says that is too soon to show up in iq stats so even if foxy is correct on the last 10 years my argument on dysgenic breeding still stands as an explanation for declining iq over the last 30 years or so

I don't know if there's a trend, because we don't have proper data.

I can certainly posit a trend, and I can certainly tell a plausible story.

But the danger is that the story and the data might not match up. And then we're arguing based on something that sure sounds plausible... but might not actually be... you know... true.

As I say to my employees: "give me data, guys"

i think charles murray in the bell curve gave some decent data for the argument im persuing.....

I read the bell curve a long time ago, but I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't address your fundamental point about birth rates.

It's also an extremely complicated topic: for example only children score significantly higher on IQ tests than those who have siblings. Indeed, a lot of the data on rising IQs historically may simply be a consequence of family sizes diminishing.

IshmaelZ said:

Eabhal said:

A

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

Elements of the right equally so. My most enthusiastic Putin supporting friend is a confused blood and soil ex-SNP supporter (edging Alba/Tory, bizarrely).

Been a useful litmus test for the nutters. He's a good mate though.

Is the "litmus test" thing code for, does a lot of acid? Also, how is he a useful test? Because anyone who is like him but even more so is obviously a demented wanker, whereas lots of people like him but quite a bit less so would probably also qualify as demented wankers. What benchmark exactly are we looking at here?

The supporting Putin thing is the test.

There you go lads, that's what a proper gaylord ponceyboots pm looks like.

Casino_Royale said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

I love the way you start with something vaguely rooted in fact, and then veer off at the end.

If you are correct, btw, then we should start to see that French IQs rise relative to everywhere else, as France is the only country in the world where birth rate correlates positively with income and education levels (due to the country's rather sensible pronatal policies).

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

We need to teach our children critical thinking.

That will mean they're sometimes out on a limb challenging fashionable orthodoxy.

It will also mean they learn how to exercise their brains to the fullest extent possible, and both they and society will make better decisions as a result.

Yeah, but then they might talk back.

solarflare said:

darkage said:

JosiasJessop said:

It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.

Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.

My problem with them is that they spend far too much time wibbling on about whatever handwringing, woke topic is flavour of the month instead of being 100% focused on Environmentalism. Too many watermelons, not enough greengages.

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

rcs1000 said:

theelephant said:

Leon said:

FrankBooth said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

TimT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Carnyx said:

Andy_JS said:

This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

"Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?

Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.

Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.

I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.

I doubt they care any more about other places.

I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.

Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons

It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.

I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.

I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

This article blames environmental causes


https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense

Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels

I love the way you start with something vaguely rooted in fact, and then veer off at the end.

If you are correct, btw, then we should start to see that French IQs rise relative to everywhere else, as France is the only country in the world where birth rate correlates positively with income and education levels (due to the country's rather sensible pronatal policies).

Also: https://xkcd.com/603/

We need to teach our children critical thinking.

That will mean they're sometimes out on a limb challenging fashionable orthodoxy.

It will also mean they learn how to exercise their brains to the fullest extent possible, and both they and society will make better decisions as a result.

Yeah, but then they might talk back.

Not if they've been taught with Tory-mandated stuff like this:

https://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=read&author=marshall&book=island&story=_front

MoonRabbit said:

Scott_xP said:

Watch it with the sound off. You can see his soul seeping out of his eyes. They’re sacrificing everything that made us the mother of all Parliaments on the altar of Boris Johnson’s utter depravity. https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1509232250730295304

It’s looking like a fine, staying on for locals, bad set of results blamed on the fine, forced out?
Just to clear up one bit, no FPN for Boris whilst others get them all around him is an even bigger poll drop than actually sharing the telling off?

As I recall, the attendees at illicit student parties, etc. got FPN. But the organisers/hosts got much more substantial charges with (if convicted) fines in the £K range and upwards. It would be, erm, distinctive if Mr Johnson, the Cabinet Office head, etc., got let off with FPNs rather than at least being charged (whatever the actual result in court). The comparison would be made.

IshmaelZ said:

MoonRabbit said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.

I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.

Just not that into ewe.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MoonRabbit said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.

"Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"

Apparently male giraffes use rape as bullying and control, possibly without any concept of queer.

MoonRabbit said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MoonRabbit said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.

"Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"

Apparently male giraffes use rape as bullying and control, possibly without any concept of queer.

Really? I've often seen giraffes carrying the old rainbow flag, which suggests they are rather more woke that you give them credit.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MoonRabbit said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.

"Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"

That's asexual giraffes. Different kind altogether.