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Johnson’s failure to apologise for party-gate is making matters worse – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,798
    Taz said:

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    What they are doing is becoming effective local campaigners and are gradually taking more and more council seats. Their NIMBYism is perfect for local elections. I expect them to do well in May.
    Straight out of the lib dem playbook.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    edited March 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Watch it with the sound off. You can see his soul seeping out of his eyes. They’re sacrificing everything that made us the mother of all Parliaments on the altar of Boris Johnson’s utter depravity. https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1509232250730295304

    It’s looking like a fine, staying on for locals, bad set of results blamed on the fine, forced out?
    Just to clear up one bit, no FPN for Boris whilst others get them all around him is an even bigger poll drop than actually sharing the telling off?
    As I recall, the attendees at illicit student parties, etc. got FPN. But the organisers/hosts got much more substantial charges with (if convicted) fines in the £K range and upwards. It would be, erm, distinctive if Mr Johnson, the Cabinet Office head, etc., got let off with FPNs rather than at least being charged (whatever the actual result in court). The comparison would be made.
    I think he is just the dear ambushed attendee isn’t he, it’s his wife who arranged them? But no worries, they could flog that spare roll of wallpaper they pushed under the bed to pay for what she’s got coming.

    You just know the details on this are leaking out at some point.
    That excuse is only useable more than once or twice if he had seven plus birthdays a year, or whatever the current figure is (can't keep up). Can't quite see how that works.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,086
    The snow is belting down here on Tyneside
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294
    darkage said:

    Taz said:

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    What they are doing is becoming effective local campaigners and are gradually taking more and more council seats. Their NIMBYism is perfect for local elections. I expect them to do well in May.
    Straight out of the lib dem playbook.
    Yes, indeed. I think they have learned well at a local level.

    I’d vote for them locally if they stood here.

    The disparity between the party locally and nationally is interesting.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    My problem with them is that they spend far too much time wibbling on about whatever handwringing, woke topic is flavour of the month instead of being 100% focused on Environmentalism. Too many watermelons, not enough greengages.
    I had a rare listen to R4 on Sunday night, and Natalie the Australian Green lady was on - the Green problem imo is that they want to reverse economic growth completely, and with it human progress. They base this on the deeply flawed premise that the world's resources are running out like a tape measure that we're about the overshoot the end of. They would have argued the same at any point in history, including when humanity lived in caves. The fact is that the world's resources, and the very concept of those resources, have always changed, evolved and adapted, as humanity has grown. The Green premise is the textbook definition of extremist, and I think many people vote for them because it seems well meaning without any serious research into what they stand for. It's the political equivalent of going vegan - seems healthy and delicious, reality is malnourished misery.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    Hi @theelephant

    While we obviously love having you here, can you let me know why your IP address is listed with Spamhaus ZEN and with UCEPROTECTL2 as being a compromised open proxy?

    Thanks, rcs1000
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Watch it with the sound off. You can see his soul seeping out of his eyes. They’re sacrificing everything that made us the mother of all Parliaments on the altar of Boris Johnson’s utter depravity. https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1509232250730295304

    It’s looking like a fine, staying on for locals, bad set of results blamed on the fine, forced out?
    Just to clear up one bit, no FPN for Boris whilst others get them all around him is an even bigger poll drop than actually sharing the telling off?
    As I recall, the attendees at illicit student parties, etc. got FPN. But the organisers/hosts got much more substantial charges with (if convicted) fines in the £K range and upwards. It would be, erm, distinctive if Mr Johnson, the Cabinet Office head, etc., got let off with FPNs rather than at least being charged (whatever the actual result in court). The comparison would be made.
    I think he is just the dear ambushed attendee isn’t he, it’s his wife who arranged them? But no worries, they could flog that spare roll of wallpaper they pushed under the bed to pay for what she’s got coming.

    You just know the details on this are leaking out at some point.
    That excuse is only useable more than once or twice if he had seven plus birthdays a year, or whatever the current figure is (can't keep up). Can't quite see how that works.
    They are not all surprise birthday parties are they. One was the winner takes it all, you just sacked Dom surprise party. Another was the, we thought you were a gonner but still you are more bonkers than ever surprise party etc
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474

    I am not perfect, I have never claimed to be. But I have been open about my struggles in the hope it might help other people. Most here are extremely pleasant and despite the opinions of some, I get on very well with people I disagree with in general.

    I will apologise for calling Leon dumb.

    Why? It was a perfectly fair remark. You might regard my views as so exceptionally misguided I must be deeply unintelligent

    Let's not turn this into some cringey hug-fest. I am happy to be called "dumb" (or much much worse)

    Just don't use my real name (@mysticrose)
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,892
    darkage said:

    Taz said:


    What they are doing is becoming effective local campaigners and are gradually taking more and more council seats. Their NIMBYism is perfect for local elections. I expect them to do well in May.

    Straight out of the lib dem playbook.
    Don't be so begrudging. You know the old saying - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    As for London, the Greens start with 11 seats so you'd expect some gains and it will be interesting to see if they can make headway in boroughs with no LD representation (of which there are many).

    They have 5 Councillors in Lambeth and also form the only opposition in Islington. It will be interesting to see if they can make further progress in either Borough and I know in Newham they have some activists working in Forest Gate which might be their best prospect.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,923

    The snow is belting down here on Tyneside

    Snow in Edinburgh too.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

    "Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
    Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

    Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?
    Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.
    Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

    For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.
    I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

    But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.
    I doubt they care any more about other places.

    I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.
    Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

    And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons
    It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

    Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

    However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.
    I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.
    I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

    I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

    This article blames environmental causes


    https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


    On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense
    Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels
    Sterilize the poor!
    My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

    "Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
    Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

    Isn't some at least of that a matter of youngsters not bothering to keep iup with the news/have an opinion?
    Maybe, but there's no excuse for "accidentally" supporting Russia because you haven't been taking an interest in the news.
    Nah, for this century America has been led by Bush 43 and Trump, you can see why people aren't enamoured by America.

    For some there's no difference between the invasion of Ukraine and the liberation of Iraq in 2003.
    I wonder if the yoof also think more globally than we old farts. Despite the fact I have lived most my life outside Britain (46/17 years out/in), I tend to think about Ukraine being a European war and hence 'our' problem, whereas Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Burma, Nagorny-Karabakh, etc... are really other peoples' problems (until we made them ours, where we did). So they are fundamentally different in my mind.

    But for many of the younger generation, it appears that what is front and centre for them is the contrast in how the West has reacted to 'like' situations, and hence for them the hypocrisy in our actions.
    I doubt they care any more about other places.

    I suspect its more some embittered resentment of the western world which manifests itself in supporting anything opposed to it.
    Also, young people are just a lot more stupid than us oldsters. IQs are declining across the West

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576

    And they really obviously ARE stupider. You can see it all around you. Less questioning. Sheeplike. Idiotic. Look at @CorrectHorseBattery and @Gallowgate on here. Fucking morons
    It's actually a bit more complicated than that.

    Today's 21 years olds are not scoring as well as those born in 1974 (for example) and testing in 1995.

    However, we all suffer from cognitive decline as we get older, particularly if we're gin-riddled. This mean that a 21 year old today will score more highly on an IQ test (on average) than a 54 year old.
    I wonder why you chose 1974? My limited understanding of the latest research is that the peak was sometime in the 70s. I have no idea whether this is having a noticeable affect on the workplace.
    I have heard from several people - not given to trolling like me - that their younger employees are noticeably dimmer, and more annoying and simultaneously more sensitive and entitled. But definitely dimmer

    I'm not entirely making this up to irritate (tho that too)

    This article blames environmental causes


    https://time.com/5311672/iq-scores-decline-environment/


    On the evidence here, it looks like Absolute Peak Human IQ was achieved by people born in the mid 1960s, and then measured in the mid 1970s, which makes total sense
    Interesting that the decline in IQ coincides with the start of the almost dysgenic breeding programme we now have in the west whereby low iq women and men have been allowed by the benefits system to breed to their hearts content. At the same time many intelligent women prioritise their career and may have put off having a family to the last minute often having one or zero children. We are now seeing the effects of this which will only get worse and will cause much of the economy to start operating at 3rd world levels
    Sterilize the poor!
    My point made....its impossible to have a sensible conversation about things such as this. Might as well put your feet up and enjoy the decline
    My understanding - and I don't have the stats to hand - is that in general the rich have more kids than the poor, and that the balance of rich kids/poor kids is currently more skewed towards rich kids than at any time in British history. I may be wrong and am too cold to look up the details.
    mmm if you are talking about jacob rees mogg...hedge fund level of wealth yes that might be true....these families can afford nannies and or a stay at home wife....im talking more about the broad middle class saddled with mortgage debt
    Nope, I reckon it’s those unable to get a mortgage who are having fewer kids.
    exactly...the middle class renters priced out by high house prices....not the people living on welfare on council estates
    You're making a lot of assumptions, and you haven't really backed it up with data.

    Now, it may be true. It may not be true. But right now it's just an assertion.
    im not dogmatic in my thinking.....but if there has been a reversal of the trend in the last 10 years as Foxy says that is too soon to show up in iq stats so even if foxy is correct on the last 10 years my argument on dysgenic breeding still stands as an explanation for declining iq over the last 30 years or so
    I don't know if there's a trend, because we don't have proper data.

    I can certainly posit a trend, and I can certainly tell a plausible story.

    But the danger is that the story and the data might not match up. And then we're arguing based on something that sure sounds plausible... but might not actually be... you know... true.

    As I say to my employees: "give me data, guys"
    i think charles murray in the bell curve gave some decent data for the argument im persuing.....
    I read the bell curve a long time ago, but I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't address your fundamental point about birth rates.

    It's also an extremely complicated topic: for example only children score significantly higher on IQ tests than those who have siblings. Indeed, a lot of the data on rising IQs historically may simply be a consequence of family sizes diminishing.
    It is a brilliant book, however. He foresaw the rise of the Cognitive Elite, Which now exists, hence Trump and Brexit and so much more

    I have interviewed Charles Murray for the Knappers Gazette. He's extremely polite, very wise, he's a dude. The fact he is labelled as some appalling racist is an indictment on American academe and culture, not him. He's a clever scientist, who gave his prescient opinion

    Now, he may be wrong. But I do not perceive an ounce of racism in the man. The data ARE the data
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    I have just been inspired to read the Green Party Peace and Defence Policy.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    I rather like it.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,454

    Remarkably for the first time the SNP is not standing a candidate in every mainland ward in an STV election. They are missing candidates in the Borders including a ward where Labour bizarrely has 2.

    Even more remarkably, they are not standing in Caol and Mallaig ward where LD, Green and Tory candidates are returned unopposed.

    Caol and Mallaig is strange. It's in Ian Blackford and Kate Forbes's seats (at Westminster, Holyrood respectively). Should be an SNP banker. Wonder if they somehow screwed up the nomination somehow - surely they could have found someone,
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602
    rcs1000 said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    "Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"
    Apparently male giraffes use rape as bullying and control, possibly without any concept of queer.
    Really? I've often seen giraffes carrying the old rainbow flag, which suggests they are rather more woke that you give them credit.
    I know some of them have a bit of a neck on them, but it wasn’t Giraffe Pride I was referring to, but the Labour Party top team getting down to serious business, how to cause party splits, in case you have all forgotten!

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10224739/labour-giraffes-are-gay-row/

    How on earth did they lose that election to Boris?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    rcs1000 said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    "Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"
    Apparently male giraffes use rape as bullying and control, possibly without any concept of queer.
    Really? I've often seen giraffes carrying the old rainbow flag, which suggests they are rather more woke that you give them credit.
    I know some of them have a bit of a neck on them, but it wasn’t Giraffe Pride I was referring to, but the Labour Party top team getting down to serious business, how to cause party splits, in case you have all forgotten!

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10224739/labour-giraffes-are-gay-row/

    How on earth did they lose that election to Boris?
    When things are that chaotic people will vote for any plonker, if they think it will stop it and they can go back to ignoring politics.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    My problem with them is that they spend far too much time wibbling on about whatever handwringing, woke topic is flavour of the month instead of being 100% focused on Environmentalism. Too many watermelons, not enough greengages.
    I had a rare listen to R4 on Sunday night, and Natalie the Australian Green lady was on -
    Isn't she now PM of Israel?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    edited March 2022
    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    Moon! How are you :)
    I’m holding up alright. Done some retail therapy yesterday.

    Just simply ignore that Leon today, he’s in a grumpy mood again. Probably time of the month for one of the alias in his head.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    "Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"
    Apparently male giraffes use rape as bullying and control, possibly without any concept of queer.
    That differs from how male humans use rape in what interesting ways?
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    My problem with them is that they spend far too much time wibbling on about whatever handwringing, woke topic is flavour of the month instead of being 100% focused on Environmentalism. Too many watermelons, not enough greengages.
    I had a rare listen to R4 on Sunday night, and Natalie the Australian Green lady was on -
    Isn't she now PM of Israel?
    Possibly, but she didn't mention it.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519
    Foxy said:

    I have just been inspired to read the Green Party Peace and Defence Policy.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    I rather like it.

    Who knew white flags could be made from unbleached fairtrade hemp?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
    You are doing some skit here, arn’t you? pythons gay Giraffe Sketch? 🤔.

    Pete and Dud get both horns?

    Chomp chomp chomp
    “What the hell’s that!”
    “What?”
    Chomp chomp chomp slurp
    “That!”
    “Oh, I’ve got a Giraffe under the table.”
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    Foxy said:

    I have just been inspired to read the Green Party Peace and Defence Policy.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    I rather like it.

    Who knew white flags could be made from unbleached fairtrade hemp?
    Scrapping Trident is a big plus for me, and SNP don't stand locally.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Carnyx said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    "Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"
    That's asexual giraffes. Different kind altogether.
    Queer is non-binary. I think these might be homo- or a- ...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
    You are doing some skit here, arn’t you? pythons gay Giraffe Sketch? 🤔.

    I believe it's a Gladiator quote.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-60931620

    Worcestershire dog attack: Boy, two, dies in hospital

    I think that's 3, since Crufts? A heartwarming statistic for all our dogshit production facility enthusiasts. Makes it all seem worthwhile.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    Hi @theelephant

    While we obviously love having you here, can you let me know why your IP address is listed with Spamhaus ZEN and with UCEPROTECTL2 as being a compromised open proxy?

    Thanks, rcs1000

    I sense a trunk being packed.
    In the PB holy trinity I definitely see rcs1000 as the righteous smiter.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    TimT said:

    Carnyx said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    "Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back!"
    That's asexual giraffes. Different kind altogether.
    Queer is non-binary. I think these might be homo- or a- ...
    We don't know whether they identify with their sex assigned at birth either.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294
    edited March 2022
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
    You are doing some skit here, arn’t you? pythons gay Giraffe Sketch? 🤔.

    I believe it's a Gladiator quote.
    In the scene Ollie Reed actually grabbed Omid’s balls for real so he’s not acting with his wincing 😂
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Taz said:

    Sally Gunnell puts her head above the parapet on trans sports people.

    https://twitter.com/sallygunnell/status/1509176194440347654?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

    “Us females passed and present” is a good unintentional pun.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,361
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    I believe its been stated many countries essentially have two green partiy options, so they can cater to a more radical left position or be more centrist or even on the right.

    But I'd agree I think that is the main problem, that most parties are various shades of green now. Certainly you will find anti-green policies more on the right, but plenty of Conservatives (and conservatives) are very keen on green issues. So what can the Greens do? Become even greener? Or differentiate in different ways, which requires they remain non mainstream, even as their core policy does become mainstream?

    It's a shame as I have a lot of time for many local Greens. They organise very effectively, are very passionate, typically polite, and work damn hard even between elections (which ususally don't go well for them despite their effort).
    I think it wrong to suggest they become mainstream and more coherent. That isn't their role. They are more counter-cultural than aiming at conventional power. Like UKIP they have a big effect without big political success, at least in FPTP elections. Being a ferment of ideas, often incoherent or contradictory is a useful contribution to British politics.
    The Greens I know vary quite a bit, but they are all more seriously green than the rest of the parties would readily contemplate. For example, if a council has some spare housing money, do you put it into shared ownership projects to help get on the ladder (Con), social housing to help people in difficulty (Lab), or entirely into heat pumps and some net-zero homes? We're all greenish, but we aren't as green as that.

    They're often impressively left-wing too, of course - I'm a one-nation Tory by comparison with some.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128
    Putin's pet Chechen:

    TikTok troops

    Many admired bravery of Kadyrov who personally went to Ukraine and posted a lot of cool photos from the frontline. Consider this: Kadyrov is praying having put his gun lays nearby. It's a shame we see a Pulsar gas station nearby. So it's not Ukraine. It's Russia🧵

    ...

    What does incredibly high status of a TikTok warlord Kadyrov in Russian dominance hierarchy tell us about modern Russia? It reflects a general tendency of Russian ruling class to PRmaxing. If Soviet Union was the Evil Empire, than Russian Federation is Bullshit Empire. End of🧵


    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294

    Taz said:

    Sally Gunnell puts her head above the parapet on trans sports people.

    https://twitter.com/sallygunnell/status/1509176194440347654?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

    “Us females passed and present” is a good unintentional pun.
    Yes, I wondered if it was deliberate rather than a typo.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
    You are doing some skit here, arn’t you? pythons gay Giraffe Sketch? 🤔.

    Pete and Dud get both horns?

    Chomp chomp chomp
    “What the hell’s that!”
    “What?”
    Chomp chomp chomp slurp
    “That!”
    “Oh, I’ve got a Giraffe under the table.”
    [sigh]
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0172495/characters/nm0001657
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519

    darkage said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    It isn't just stop the war. The Green Party want to reduce defence spending to the minimum to achieve adequate security, and abolish the nuclear deterrent. This is a popular political party, particularly with young people. I've got friends who have stood for this party, otherwise smart academics.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    All very well, but what would the Green Party about Ukraine? Nothing. Absolutely fuck all. Have a protest. Make impassioned speeches at the UN whilst getting ignored by the rest of the world. That's it.

    Putin is an absolute gift to those of us who want a decent military and maintain nuclear bombs. He has done far more than we could ever do to persuade people of the naivety of much left/liberal thinking on matters of defence.



    Maybe it's just my own political bias/leanings showing but I tend to find the problem with the Green party/parties in the UK is that all the other leading political parties have essentially caught up with them on having green policies (perhaps not quite so radical, but green policies nevertheless), but the Greens haven't caught up with the other parties on having sensible policies on everything else.

    They're still largely living off the notion that they're occupying some important but relatively niche political space noone else is considering, which isn't really true any more.
    My problem with them is that they spend far too much time wibbling on about whatever handwringing, woke topic is flavour of the month instead of being 100% focused on Environmentalism. Too many watermelons, not enough greengages.
    I had a rare listen to R4 on Sunday night, and Natalie the Australian Green lady was on -
    Isn't she now PM of Israel?
    Possibly, but she didn't mention it.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I have just been inspired to read the Green Party Peace and Defence Policy.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    I rather like it.

    Who knew white flags could be made from unbleached fairtrade hemp?
    Scrapping Trident is a big plus for me, and SNP don't stand locally.
    I'm only joking - I am a Trident scrapper too, though I want tactical nukes and I doubt the Greens feel the same.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The left of Labour have been utterly horrendous on Russia. Just appalling.

    When you have people who think 93% of Giraffe’s are gay, getting position on Putin’s invasion right was always going to be way beyond them. Extremists have too much bias, they walk around seeing the world through a prism of their own misconceptions and self fulfilling prophecies. The right place for grown ups is be a moderate around the centre, the extremes is student age politics.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but you do need to verify your facts. It is incontrovertibly true that male homosexuality is highly prevalent among giraffes, lions and sheep. Ten percent of rams are exclusively gay. Don't like to be the one to break it to you, but there it is.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave to Sunil some moments ago.
    "What do you want, hmmm? Girl...? Boy...?" :)
    You are doing some skit here, arn’t you? pythons gay Giraffe Sketch? 🤔.

    I believe it's a Gladiator quote.
    In the scene Ollie Reed actually grabbed Omid’s balls for real so he’s not acting 😂
    He was a scary dude if he wanted to be. I watched Oliver recently and you could practically feel the psychotic menace of his performance through the screen.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474

    Taz said:

    Sally Gunnell puts her head above the parapet on trans sports people.

    https://twitter.com/sallygunnell/status/1509176194440347654?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

    “Us females passed and present” is a good unintentional pun.
    I did wonder if women's sports would be the tipping point


    "Transgender cyclist Emily Bridges will not compete at Saturday's National Omnium Championships in her first women's event after a ruling by cycling's world governing body.

    More to follow | #bbccycling"


    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1509235213544693773?s=20&t=Q-NLWS5Q4MZ2bJXclp_z0Q
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Not so easy for those in the hospitals though, although I agree with your sentiment. I’m hoping the trend from Denmark holds here too, and we will be in better shape post Easter.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    It appears someone might be flagging my posts criticising Stop The War's position on the Ukraine war.

    It'd be good if the anonymous coward could actually come forward and say why they're flagging it...

    And yes, I feel strongly about this. StW are morally and intellectually wrong on this. They are excusing evil.

    What does the “flag” mean? Is it new? Not sure I’d seen or thought about it before.
    Strictly speaking, it is a way of alerting the mods to spam posters by Russian bots.

    In practice, it's generally used to signal disagreement or suggest the mods need to look at a post.

    In further practice, it usually drives @rcs1000 up the wall because he gets an email every time somebody does it and frequent use clogs his inbox.
    Has a flood of emails alerted RCS to Josias annoying phantom flagger of old PB town?

    Ironical really if the only people on PB rude enough to flag, are bots trained to go on sites and flag the enemy. The bots alert themselves to our admins. 😄
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,361



    Yes, exactly. How does that differ from what I said? I say we made mistakes but the war is classic imperialism. You say it doesn't matter if we've made mistakes, it's classic imperialism. You say that now the evil war has started, we shouldn't still be going on about past mistakes. I agree, and since the war started I've only mentioned them when someone asked what others on the left had been saying. We tend to be on opposite sides (I remember your mad love for HS2), but on this one we actually agree.

    The point is *exactly* what you say, and the emphasis.

    The emphasis should be on Putin's evil. That is the cause of this war. By saying 'we made mistakes', and I'd argue by even mentioning it, you are excusing, or relieving the evil of, the latter.

    ,,,
    I'm sorry, but my view is that you won't take "yes" for an answer, unless whoever you're talking to says exactly the same thing in exactly the same way. Life's too short to bother. Let's agree to differ on whatever you think we differ on.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052

    Putin's pet Chechen:

    TikTok troops

    Many admired bravery of Kadyrov who personally went to Ukraine and posted a lot of cool photos from the frontline. Consider this: Kadyrov is praying having put his gun lays nearby. It's a shame we see a Pulsar gas station nearby. So it's not Ukraine. It's Russia🧵

    ...

    What does incredibly high status of a TikTok warlord Kadyrov in Russian dominance hierarchy tell us about modern Russia? It reflects a general tendency of Russian ruling class to PRmaxing. If Soviet Union was the Evil Empire, than Russian Federation is Bullshit Empire. End of🧵


    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    A shame he's not actually made it to Ukraine and the sight line of a sniper's rifle.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,574
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    You should have just answered 'yes'.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    The first.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Positive feedback loop innit?

    If he comes away from this understanding that positive feedback does not mean, saying nice stuff in online surveys, that's a definite win
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    The first.
    The former, out of two
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    I hope you didn't leave him hanging whilst you sought a consultation.

    I think being corrupt and ruthless are not completely necessary prerequisites to become a leader if you have a good democratic structure and a strong culture of debate and holding people to account, but even if you do have that being corrupt and ruthless can be a big help. If you lack those things then they are even more useful to become a leader. The pressure of being a leader even within a good system, and the egocentricity of thinking you are the best person to run something (rightly or not), means the inclination to become ever more corrupt and ruthless to maintain control is ever present.

    Actually corruption probably hinders as well as helps in the end, but ruthlessness definitely. I think that applies to Napoleon/Ceasar as much as anyone - given the ending of the novel I think it leans to the idea leaders become that way increasingly over time, but thanks to direction they chose.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,602

    Foxy said:

    I have just been inspired to read the Green Party Peace and Defence Policy.

    https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/pd.html

    I rather like it.

    Who knew white flags could be made from unbleached fairtrade hemp?
    That’s what they use for their defence policy?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Yeah bouncing back quite rapidly now. It’s amazing to remember all the guff on PB (and elsewhere) about life “being changed forever” London being “hollowed out” and people being endlessly nervous about being around others. To my experience, the opposite is true: people are loving getting out there. Nobody wants to remember the masks and the isolation.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Or more succinctly, strengths easily become weaknesses due to time and pressure. Tough becomes ruthless. Caution becomes vacilation. But the seeds will have been there to start with.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Yeah bouncing back quite rapidly now. It’s amazing to remember all the guff on PB (and elsewhere) about life “being changed forever” London being “hollowed out” and people being endlessly nervous about being around others. To my experience, the opposite is true: people are loving getting out there. Nobody wants to remember the masks and the isolation.
    I can’t remember who it was that kept spouting all that guff...😀
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    He's moved onto 1984. I've warned him that it's an extremely depressing book.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    He's moved onto 1984. I've warned him that it's an extremely depressing book.
    It’s ok if he stops half way through...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995

    The snow is belting down here on Tyneside

    Yep. It's a white winter wonderland.
    Quite unbelievable from where we were at last weekend.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    edited March 2022
    dixiedean said:

    The snow is belting down here on Tyneside

    Yep. It's a white winter wonderland.
    Quite unbelievable from where we were at last weekend.
    It’s classic March/April weather, but amazing to see it. Four years and about 10 days ago we say 8 inches of snow in wilts. Quite incredible.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    Freezing temperatures feel a lot worse when it was 20 degrees a matter of days ago.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    While this is true generally I’d imagine it’s still buggering up the hospitals. I think the iSAGE lot have gone bonkers because NO-ONE IS LISTENING TO ME. I read some posting that they believe we are all going to keep getting Covid, every few weeks, forever. Totally insane, not backed up by any evidence and counter to scientific understanding. I think the ability of omicron to infect those who have had delta, and also BA2 to infect those who have had vanilla omicron has confused them, the poor lambs. The current wave will subside, and we’ve got 99% of people with antibodies that protect against serious disease.
    So were in pretty good shape, but I have sympathy for those on the front line.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,563
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    He's moved onto 1984. I've warned him that it's an extremely depressing book.
    No, it's quite a cheerful ending. Winston loves Big Brother.
    The most worrying person I ever met said that he loved 1984 and O'Brien was his favourite character....
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    BigRich said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is disturbing. Young people less likely to support Ukraine and more likely to be pro-Russian in some countries.

    "Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine
    Young people in America and Europe are less sympathetic towards it"

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/03/29/our-polling-reveals-a-striking-generational-divide-on-ukraine

    I cant read the article paywall, (unless somebody has a good workaround?)

    but it is interesting how its much more pronounced in the USA middling in France and very small in UK.

    Leaving the contrary's defences aside, is this mostly a difference of weather you have a memory of the cold war? maybe?
    I'm not a subscriber but because I'm registered with them I can read a certain number of articles every so often.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    Andy_JS said:

    Freezing temperatures feel a lot worse when it was 20 degrees a matter of days ago.

    Yeah. It's the contrast. Spent most of the weekend at the beach. Rained heavily overnight. Intermittent snow, hail and sleet all day.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    I think you need to introduce him to Chaos Theory and the concept that tiny, immeasurable changes in the environment might have radically changed the outcome, so there is no real causative relationship, just an outcome.
  • Options
    Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737

    Remarkably for the first time the SNP is not standing a candidate in every mainland ward in an STV election. They are missing candidates in the Borders including a ward where Labour bizarrely has 2.

    Even more remarkably, they are not standing in Caol and Mallaig ward where LD, Green and Tory candidates are returned unopposed.

    Caol and Mallaig is strange. It's in Ian Blackford and Kate Forbes's seats (at Westminster, Holyrood respectively). Should be an SNP banker. Wonder if they somehow screwed up the nomination somehow - surely they could have found someone,
    Could be lacking candidates to stand in some areas. They have also dropped from 13 to 9 in Moray which is a poor show particularly in Elgin at the same time the Tories have increased from 8 to 11.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    I am sure somebody told us all youngsters were thickies these days ;-)
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    I don’t doubt it. But what do you advise?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    I am sure somebody told us all youngsters were thickies these days ;-)
    He’s obviously been well brought up.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,923

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    People pretended to have mental disabilities in order to win medals in a sport, never mind all the other cheating that has gone on with so many sports, people will try anything.

    The sheet facts of physicality in some sports means it has become a real lynchpin to this whole issue, one where people cannot simply pretend it makes no difference, and so something a lot of people who do not feel strongly other than not wanting to be a dick about things, feel has to require the drawing of lines.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
    Quite frankly I think omicron BA2 is so infectious it would be hard to achieve anything short of genuine lock down (I.e the enforced by police, don5 leave your home unless you have permission kind). I don’t really understand why the Scottish government is still pissing about with light touch frustrations restrictions on people’s lives. It can’t be achieving anything.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    I don’t doubt it. But what do you advise?
    Better ventilation, sick pay policy, recognition of diminished health care capacity for other conditions, improved services for post viral syndromes. That sort of thing.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Trans cyclist Emily Bridges is BARRED by sport's international governing body from racing in women's national omnium championships against Dame Laura Kenny a month after competing in male events

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10669605/Trans-cyclist-Emily-Bridges-BARRED-competing-womens-omnium-race-against-Dame-Laura-Kenny.html
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    He's moved onto 1984. I've warned him that it's an extremely depressing book.
    No, it's quite a cheerful ending. Winston loves Big Brother.
    Ben Elton, who has written several quite good novels, wrote one which was basically an updated 1984 but with imposition of a society with no personal boundaries on top of ignorance and oppression, but with a more hopeful (if not actually happy) ending. It wasn't one of his best admittedly.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    I wish I'd had more kids
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    The NYT puts forward a view. What if Putin didn’t miscalculate and was just after East Ukraine all along

    https://twitter.com/drpippam/status/1509189718994558976?s=21&t=mJtrPtWqKlhQ-yY7dYRqsg

    He could have sent all his troops there and smashed the Ukrainian forces.

    I don't for one minute believe he wasn't going for regime change in Kyiv. He got smacked upside the head by the shit nature of his military's planning, their kit being woefully unready to face the Ukrainian defenders - and a world that said "No!"
    The Russian Army used to be the second best in the world. Now it is the second best in Ukraine.
    Aren't you rating the Chechens a bit low there?
    They’re not an army, just a glorified bunch of thugs.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    I am sure somebody told us all youngsters were thickies these days ;-)
    How many pre teens have PhDs versus how many 65 years olds? No contest who is more intelligent - education equals intelligence, I read that on here.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    People pretended to have mental disabilities in order to win medals in a sport, never mind all the other cheating that has gone on with so many sports, people will try anything.

    The sheet facts of physicality in some sports means it has become a real lynchpin to this whole issue, one where people cannot simply pretend it makes no difference, and so something a lot of people who do not feel strongly other than not wanting to be a dick about things, feel has to require the drawing of lines.
    Do you think people transition purely so they can win a sporting medal?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My son has just read Animal Farm, and he asked me: did Napoleon become leader because he was corrupt and ruthless or did he become that way because he became leader?

    Any thoughts?

    Not read it for thirty years, but that’s a great question. I’m not sure there is enough in the text to say, but given that he was modelled on Stalin (I think) I’d say the corruption was there all along. But great question.
    He's moved onto 1984. I've warned him that it's an extremely depressing book.
    No, it's quite a cheerful ending. Winston loves Big Brother.
    the celebrity version made George Galloway look stupid.
    I think he does that on his own.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
    What would these ‘comprehensive’ measures look like? My sense is that beyond closing everything down and banning people from leaving their homes - no exceptions - any other restrictions make sod all difference against the modern-day milder, fast-spreading strains. Misery heaped on the public for no benefit.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    Leon said:

    I wish I'd had more kids

    I would quite happily had a half dozen.

    That would be a lot more sleepless nights though, and I find those nights more common with a twenty year old than a two year old.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,637

    There you go lads, that's what a proper gaylord ponceyboots pm looks like.




    Tom Baker stole that look as Dr Who.....
    Trudeau the Elder visiting Calgary Stampede whilst channeling Oscar Wilde touring the West.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    I don’t doubt it. But what do you advise?
    Better ventilation, sick pay policy, recognition of diminished health care capacity for other conditions, improved services for post viral syndromes. That sort of thing.
    Sure, and so would I. But the OP was about people’s lifestyles - I.e. how we should live our lives. Nothing to do with medical policy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    People pretended to have mental disabilities in order to win medals in a sport, never mind all the other cheating that has gone on with so many sports, people will try anything.

    The sheet facts of physicality in some sports means it has become a real lynchpin to this whole issue, one where people cannot simply pretend it makes no difference, and so something a lot of people who do not feel strongly other than not wanting to be a dick about things, feel has to require the drawing of lines.
    Do you think people transition purely so they can win a sporting medal?
    I think the numbers who would do that for that sole reason are vanishingly small, practically inconsequential, but how interesting that was your sole takeaway from the uncontroversial point that people cheat in any manner of shocking ways, and that broader point that physicality in many sports does make a difference, which makes the motivation irrelevant if it would mean an unfair contest.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    If you consider the build of the average male prop forward, then yes, allowing biological males to compete in womens' rugby is asking for death and serious injury.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,128

    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
    Quite frankly I think omicron BA2 is so infectious it would be hard to achieve anything short of genuine lock down (I.e the enforced by police, don5 leave your home unless you have permission kind). I don’t really understand why the Scottish government is still pissing about with light touch frustrations restrictions on people’s lives. It can’t be achieving anything.
    I didn’t actually realise they were! Assumed all restrictions had been abolished up there a while ago… what’s left?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    If you consider the build of the average male prop forward, then yes, allowing biological males to compete in womens' rugby is asking for death and serious injury.
    Perhaps they'd need to up the steroids dosages to make up the difference. Rugby is all natural of course, for any lawyers reading.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,923

    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
    What would these ‘comprehensive’ measures look like? My sense is that beyond closing everything down and banning people from leaving their homes - no exceptions - any other restrictions make sod all difference against the modern-day milder, fast-spreading strains. Misery heaped on the public for no benefit.
    I agree, but not dogmatically. If someone could provide the evidence for masks in public transport really does take the edge off it then I'd be happy to oblige.

    What annoys me is the theatre of putting it on for the brief trip to the toilet at the pub. Stuff like that.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I wish I'd had more kids

    I would quite happily had a half dozen.

    That would be a lot more sleepless nights though, and I find those nights more common with a twenty year old than a two year old.
    And yet, I increasingly realise: they are the only true wealth. Your children

    I am lucky to have two daughters I adore. But I could have have 4, 6, 8 - there were willing partners and more

    And at the same time I have had a peerless life of adventure: beyond the dreams of most, to put it gently. A life impossible with a fixed situation. And yet I find myself wondering, would I swap my amazing life for five or six kids all growing up in exciting ways? I genuinely dunno, perhaps yes

    Maybe I made the wrong choice

    My advice to youngsters: have kids. Have as many as you can, within reason. The government - of any complexion, I am beyond any Tory-Labour bollocks- should focus on this. We Need Kids

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    edited March 2022
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT from @Leon

    "AIUI rugby is one of the few sports that has shown some backbone and said No, trans athletes can’t compete in women’s rugby

    For obvious reasons. There would be deaths quite quickly"

    Not true anymore. The Australians are apparently about to allow a transwoman player join a womens rugby competition. Let's hope it does not end as you fear.

    Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges are, bluntly, cheats. The advantages of male puberty do not disappear even if you transition surgically. And they certainly do not disappear if you retain your male body as both of these do. Nor does reducing testosterone help. This does nothing to counter the other advantages of male puberty - for instance: a male's height, limb length, rib cage and lung volume, fast twitch muscle mass, shoulder width, centre of gravity, ligament strength, hip-knee angle etc.

    Still, if you create loopholes expect people to game them. Only the soft-headed and naive would expect anything different.

    People pretended to have mental disabilities in order to win medals in a sport, never mind all the other cheating that has gone on with so many sports, people will try anything.

    The sheet facts of physicality in some sports means it has become a real lynchpin to this whole issue, one where people cannot simply pretend it makes no difference, and so something a lot of people who do not feel strongly other than not wanting to be a dick about things, feel has to require the drawing of lines.
    Do you think people transition purely so they can win a sporting medal?
    I think the numbers who would do that for that sole reason are vanishingly small, practically inconsequential, but how interesting that was your sole takeaway from the uncontroversial point that people cheat in any manner of shocking ways, and that broader point that physicality in many sports does make a difference, which makes the motivation irrelevant if it would mean an unfair contest.
    I don't think that I expressed a view on that. I just don't think that people transition as a form of cheating.

    Sexually segregated sport and changing facilities are one of several legitimate exclusions under the Equality act. I think that should remain the case, whether or not we have self ID.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, I have just been to a DELIGHTFUL SOCIAL FUNCTION with excellent free food and booze and lovely friendly people and absolutely no hint of Covid. No masks, no nothing, no faff, not even a face covering in the Uber

    It was a Knappers Gazette industry gig in King's Cross (which was absolutely buzzing, and looking stunningly beautiful, despite horrible sleety weather)

    It was - is - the closest I have felt to normal since January 2020

    It would be SOOOOOOO nice if Vlad Putin didn't totally fuck this up. We are nearly there

    Bit different at my gaff:




    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1509189942676709382?t=N6Dk0Tq62UbyIDOyStR5TQ&s=19


    Yeah, but fuck it

    We need to move on. Look at the excess deaths, they are actually DOWN

    We have to cope with a new, nasty, endemic, potentially dangerous respiratory disease with unpredictable sequelae and no cure. That's it. Otherwise we end all human social life, and, basically, life

    Cf China
    Covid is now less dangerous than influenza. At some point we have to live our lives rather than obsessing over daily numbers in a way we never have over the flu.
    Thats as mebbe, but when prevalence rates are as high as 1 in 11 adults in a week, even something less dangerous than influenza is quite some headache for a health care system.
    Day 8 of mild covid says covid is worse than flu. An insidious bug.
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Yet influenza is now more serious than flu, statistically, empirically, in terms of risk.
    The original justification for restrictions was "protect the NHS". On that basis, it's still problematic.

    OTOH, not convinced our extended restrictions in Scotland will make any difference whatsoever. You either have comprehensive measures, or none at all.
    Quite frankly I think omicron BA2 is so infectious it would be hard to achieve anything short of genuine lock down (I.e the enforced by police, don5 leave your home unless you have permission kind). I don’t really understand why the Scottish government is still pissing about with light touch frustrations restrictions on people’s lives. It can’t be achieving anything.
    I didn’t actually realise they were! Assumed all restrictions had been abolished up there a while ago… what’s left?
    See the Sturgeon church mask fiasco/hypocrisy.
This discussion has been closed.