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Who’ll come out of May 5th best – Johnson or Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962
    edited March 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Ukrainian government ministers are now habitually joining EU council meetings of their 27 EU counterparts by video link.
    Today, Ukraine's agriculture minister Roman Leshchenko dialled into AGRIFISH. But he had to interrupt his address and leave early, due to an air raid
    siren.https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1505984735666974734

    Excellent news (not the air raid)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Evening all :)

    Some interesting Spanish polling about - one or two polls putting VOX narrowly ahead of PP which would be extraordinary. Most polls show PSOE with a narrow lead but a solid 40%+ backing either PP or VOX.

    Would PP prop up a minority VOX Government or opt for a "grand coalition" with PSOE?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,049
    edited March 2022
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    By contrast:16,000 German dead during the month-long "September Campaign" in Poland, 1939.
    Here's where Brillo presumably got it from:

    Here's the article in Komsomolskaya Pravda (I think):

    https://www.kp.ru/online/news/4672522/

    If that’s the right link the figures have been removed.
    As has the person who put them in.
    I think it's a rolling updates page, perhaps.
    Although reportedly rapidly redacted.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1505990253139709958

    But others claiming it is a hackjob then removed.

    Numbers sound credible, but as ever apply sense.

    English translation of original content:



    Internet archive link for this version:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20220321131726/https://www.kp.ru/online/news/4672522/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,744

    Omnium said:

    geoffw said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales  I hope your wife recovers.

    Actually it is my son in laws mother who is gravely ill tonight

    But thank you
    Big G - you're a good guy, and have my best wishes and I imagine those of most others here.
    Thank you so much

    Strange that in just 48 hours our son and two other brave RNLI crew saved the life of a young lady, and tonight my son in law and his sister are holding their mother's hand as she is gravely ill

    No thanks due. If I'm not shoulder-to-shoulder with you then I'm nothing.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So posters slate the government for not doing enough/ anything about P&O, but when the question is asked - what should they do? - no one answers.
    Still waiting.

    Some suggestions.
    Do not allow the employment of staff at less than the NMW in UK waters.
    Do not allow those without a permit to work in a UK port.
    Make sure that every bureaucratic requirement in P&O ports is enforced with the upmost rigour.
    End all State based contracts for their services on the basis that their employment arrangements are incompatible with UK standards.

    I am sure there is more we could do.
    Cheers. Some would require legislation?
    Almost certainly. But it could be passed in a day if the will was there. Come on Govester. You know when not to mess about.
    Could it be, that HMG already possesses emergency powers via orders in council, etc, as per existing statues?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Breaking news

    US - UK - France - Italian - and German leaders discussed the brutal tactics used by Russia including on civilians

    And in one announcement those saying UK was sidelined are completely wrong

    Keep believing. Twat.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    I would take issue with many of those points. At least in detail.

    Firstly, we must recall that the Ukrainians have had a lot of success in ambushing Russian supply convoys. This means that a lot of Russian losses will be in support and logistics roles, rather than elite front line troops.

    Secondly, it also means that we would not expect Ukraine to necessarily have lost just as many troops, as they've often been able use their superior organisation to create a local superiority of forces at the point of contact - and so you would hope they would be able to cause more casualties than they've suffered.

    Thirdly, the pre-war population of Kherson was 289,000.

    I feel a bit more positive about Ukrainian prospects then I did a couple of days ago, though.
    Of the 1600+ vehicles the Russians are reported to have lost (Oryx photo confirmed), sure, 545 were supply trucks and jeeps. But 818 were tanks, AFVs, IFVs, APCs, and IMVs. Say 5 on average per vehicle, that is over 4000 right there.
    Ah. The Russians are now saying that the Komsomolskaya Pravda website was hacked.

    More underlings headed for the Gulags
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,702
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MikeL said:

    Has anyone commented on Council Tax bills?

    Just got my bill from Barnet Council - the Barnet element goes up 1% (the standard bit is actually zero change but there's 1% more for Adult Social Care).

    But the Greater London element rises by an astonishing 8.8%.

    How on earth has Sadiq Khan got away with this? Why didn't the Government stop him? I thought there had to be a referendum for rises above 5% (?). Doesn't that apply separately to the Greater London charge?

    That's the Barnet Formula for you. Leaching Scots.
    AIUI Mr Khan has reduced the increase from last year.
    Yes, the increase was 9.5% last year. Now 8.8% this year.

    So that's a cumulative increase of 19.1% over the two years.

    A reminder of the need to tread very carefully even with supposed "moderate" Labour.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    One Ukrainian twitter poster is now referring to the Russian invaders as Ruscists.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    MikeL said:

    Has anyone commented on Council Tax bills?

    Just got my bill from Barnet Council - the Barnet element goes up 1% (the standard bit is actually zero change but there's 1% more for Adult Social Care).

    But the Greater London element rises by an astonishing 8.8%.

    How on earth has Sadiq Khan got away with this? Why didn't the Government stop him? I thought there had to be a referendum for rises above 5% (?). Doesn't that apply separately to the Greater London charge?

    Same old story. With LAB it's always pay more get less. London voters will see that on their Council Tax bills and won't be so keen to vote out CON councils as some seem to think...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    Last days of the Third Reich stuff if true…

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1505955060408324103
    Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reports
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,304

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    3 qs in a row on University Challenge I got right and the whippersnappers didn't.

    I shall now retire to a life of quiet contemplation.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,454
    TimT said:

    One Ukrainian twitter poster is now referring to the Russian invaders as Ruscists.

    Maybe just call them “Future organ donors”.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,744

    Breaking news

    US - UK - France - Italian - and German leaders discussed the brutal tactics used by Russia including on civilians

    And in one announcement those saying UK was sidelined are completely wrong

    Keep believing. Twat.
    Very adult.
  • Breaking news

    US - UK - France - Italian - and German leaders discussed the brutal tactics used by Russia including on civilians

    And in one announcement those saying UK was sidelined are completely wrong

    Keep believing. Twat.
    Is that really necessary
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    On the local elections, London will be as interesting as ever.

    Labour control 21 Boroughs, the Conservatives 7, the LDs 3 and Havering sits as NOC albeit with a Conservative-led administration.

    Deltapoll suggests Labour are on 54% (+10), the Conservatives on 24% (-5) and the LDs on 9% (-4). I'm far from convinced but a 1968 style landslide for Labour (it was a Conservative landslide then) might see some remarkable results even in such strongholds as Kensington & Chelsea and Westminster.

    Could we see Labour pick up Wandsworth, Barnet and Hillingdon leaving the Conservatives Bromley, Bexley, Kensington & Chelsea and Westminster?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,304
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,049
    edited March 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    A combination of the ships being flagged out, and where the operating company is based. So no UK regs may apply to the staffing contracts.

    At a punt on the Dutch / French employees still being in their jobs, there may be less impact from the trends, or there may be legislation in place requiring x% jobs for the host nation (we are traditionally weaker on that).

    Plus they may think our regulators may be more lax in practice.

    eg When the fishing arguments were happening, the authorities in Jersey were so supine when the French closed their ports to Jersey boats so preventing Jersey fishermen fishing in Jersey grounds, that they said it was not legal for them to close the Jersey fishing grounds to French boats.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,049

    3 qs in a row on University Challenge I got right and the whippersnappers didn't.

    I shall now retire to a life of quiet contemplation.

    I'll believe it when ... :smiley:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,486

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    edited March 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    MattW said:

    3 qs in a row on University Challenge I got right and the whippersnappers didn't.

    I shall now retire to a life of quiet contemplation.

    I'll believe it when ... :smiley:
    Ok, noisy contemplation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    We have done this to death down thread. The ships are registered in Crypus, new employees hired via agency in Malta. Employment terms and condition only have to match those of country ship is registered in. No national minimum wage in Crypus.

    Old employees weren't even UK, they were contracted via Jersey.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,304
    BigRich said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.

    Then there's this claim:

    "A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine
    @AvakovArsen
    shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1505961677371621379

    There is still a disparity between Russian admitted casualties and that 'leek' but here is my attempt to pece together:

    So if the Russians have had 17,265 killed but are only calming 9,861 killed that's an 75.1% difference.

    If we use the same ratio on wounded that would be 16,153 timed 1.751 implying total of 28,284 wounded.

    If we add that together with the 1000 POW Ukraine clamed to have taken:

    Killed: 17,265
    Wounded: 28,284
    POW: 1,000
    Total: 46,549

    Maybe that's not accurate, will we ever find out. but that's a summary for 18 march so probably only includes losses on or before 17 march, so add on 4 more days fighting to that
    If even half accurate those are utterly awful figures.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842

    MikeL said:

    Has anyone commented on Council Tax bills?

    Just got my bill from Barnet Council - the Barnet element goes up 1% (the standard bit is actually zero change but there's 1% more for Adult Social Care).

    But the Greater London element rises by an astonishing 8.8%.

    How on earth has Sadiq Khan got away with this? Why didn't the Government stop him? I thought there had to be a referendum for rises above 5% (?). Doesn't that apply separately to the Greater London charge?

    Same old story. With LAB it's always pay more get less. London voters will see that on their Council Tax bills and won't be so keen to vote out CON councils as some seem to think...
    The Mayor's precept goes towards the funding for both the Metropolitan Police and the London Fire Brigade. Police numbers were cut back during the Johnson administration and that has been reversed to some extent by Khan but policing remains a huge issue in the capital.

    There's also a £20 levy for all Londoners to help support Transport for London which is effectively bust financially and living on Government funding/bailouts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
    Other than Jezza, not a single person in political position is advocating the later is a workable option. And Jezza solution is seize the ships and nationalise, so I don't think he has had much legal advice.

    Also current employees can expect achievable wages of about £28/hr. Nobody is going to legalisate for that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,486

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
    Putin's Battalions of the Undead. "You aren't allowed to die until I say so."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    This is tooth-and-claw capitalism. If you can find someone cheaper to do the work, you hire them and sack the expensive workers. It's one of the basic tenets of business - the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618

    BigRich said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.

    Then there's this claim:

    "A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine
    @AvakovArsen
    shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1505961677371621379

    There is still a disparity between Russian admitted casualties and that 'leek' but here is my attempt to pece together:

    So if the Russians have had 17,265 killed but are only calming 9,861 killed that's an 75.1% difference.

    If we use the same ratio on wounded that would be 16,153 timed 1.751 implying total of 28,284 wounded.

    If we add that together with the 1000 POW Ukraine clamed to have taken:

    Killed: 17,265
    Wounded: 28,284
    POW: 1,000
    Total: 46,549

    Maybe that's not accurate, will we ever find out. but that's a summary for 18 march so probably only includes losses on or before 17 march, so add on 4 more days fighting to that
    If even half accurate those are utterly awful figures.
    Who would be a RU now on that frontline. How long before they crack, morale-wise.

    Generals must be getting very edgy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    I would take issue with many of those points. At least in detail.

    Firstly, we must recall that the Ukrainians have had a lot of success in ambushing Russian supply convoys. This means that a lot of Russian losses will be in support and logistics roles, rather than elite front line troops.

    Secondly, it also means that we would not expect Ukraine to necessarily have lost just as many troops, as they've often been able use their superior organisation to create a local superiority of forces at the point of contact - and so you would hope they would be able to cause more casualties than they've suffered.

    Thirdly, the pre-war population of Kherson was 289,000.

    I feel a bit more positive about Ukrainian prospects then I did a couple of days ago, though.
    Of the 1600+ vehicles the Russians are reported to have lost (Oryx photo confirmed), sure, 545 were supply trucks and jeeps. But 818 were tanks, AFVs, IFVs, APCs, and IMVs. Say 5 on average per vehicle, that is over 4000 right there.
    Ah. The Russians are now saying that the Komsomolskaya Pravda website was hacked.

    More underlings headed for the Gulags
    Ironic, you have to hack Pravda to get the truth....
    Could be Anonymous. Seemed they hacked VK social media yesterday with casualty figures:


    The Kyiv Independent
    @KyivIndependent
    ·
    22h
    ⚡️Russian social media VK allegedly hacked, spreads truth about war in Ukraine.

    Users of VK have received messages from the social network’s official account informing them of the true casualties and impact of Russia’s war against Ukraine, according to screenshots posted online.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited March 2022

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
    Other than Jezza, not a single person in political position is advocating the later is a workable option. And Jezza solution is seize the ships and nationalise, so I don't think he has had much legal advice.

    Also current employees can expect achievable wages of about £28/hr. Nobody is going to legalisate for that.
    I’ll be shouted down, but basically the solution will be a market one if there is one. Customers must vote with their feet if they care. I will. There are other ways over the channel, even for freight.

    Edit - Especially for freight, I suppose the Government could incentivise the right actions.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,304

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
    It is.

    I'm starting to seriously question now as to whether smart missiles have rendered tanks obsolete in the same way bombers rendered battleships obsolete in WW2.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,304

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
    Putin's Battalions of the Undead. "You aren't allowed to die until I say so."
    It's the one thing any dictatorship - no matter how brutal - can't paper over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
    Other than Jezza, not a single person in political position is advocating the later is a workable option. And Jezza solution is seize the ships and nationalise, so I don't think he has had much legal advice.

    Also current employees can expect achievable wages of about £28/hr. Nobody is going to legalisate for that.
    I’ll be shouted down, but basically the solution will be a market one if there is one. Customers must vote with their feet if they care. I will. There are other ways over the channel, even for freight.

    Edit - Especially for freight, I suppose the Government could incentivise the right actions.
    I think Starmer's call on public sector not giving them contracts is something that is actionable. No idea what proportion of this income comes from that.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    stodge said:

    MikeL said:

    Has anyone commented on Council Tax bills?

    Just got my bill from Barnet Council - the Barnet element goes up 1% (the standard bit is actually zero change but there's 1% more for Adult Social Care).

    But the Greater London element rises by an astonishing 8.8%.

    How on earth has Sadiq Khan got away with this? Why didn't the Government stop him? I thought there had to be a referendum for rises above 5% (?). Doesn't that apply separately to the Greater London charge?

    Same old story. With LAB it's always pay more get less. London voters will see that on their Council Tax bills and won't be so keen to vote out CON councils as some seem to think...
    The Mayor's precept goes towards the funding for both the Metropolitan Police and the London Fire Brigade. Police numbers were cut back during the Johnson administration and that has been reversed to some extent by Khan but policing remains a huge issue in the capital.

    There's also a £20 levy for all Londoners to help support Transport for London which is effectively bust financially and living on Government funding/bailouts.
    Actually the really criminal thing Boris did in London was preserve frontline police numbers at the expense of other police staff and PCSOs. Means London has a lot of expensive coppers doing non-police roles (or at least roles that need not be warranted officers), because it was apolitically attractive.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited March 2022

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
    It is.

    I'm starting to seriously question now as to whether smart missiles have rendered tanks obsolete in the same way bombers rendered battleships obsolete in WW2.
    Not for a combined arms force with well trained infantry and effective close in air defence, plus DAS on the tanks. But it a a balance, and the balance will now be to have fewer.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
    Putin's Battalions of the Undead. "You aren't allowed to die until I say so."
    Anyone who says someone is dead will face 15 years in prison.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297
    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    On the City, what I've noticed is that it's the default option for smart people who don't like what they were doing in their previous industry, whether that's engineering, science or anything else. I was a software developer working 60-80h per week before I left for a City career where I worked the same 60-80 hour week but at least got paid well for my time.

    I don't think it is a big lure for people who enjoy what they do and I'm not sure losing disinterested engineers or scientists from those fields to the City is really a huge deal.

    That is a fair point. I had a choice after Business School to go back into consultancy and decided that the City was probably a better option - not because I loved it but, as you said, you would get paid more for what you did.

    The irony is that, longer-term, it would have been better to stick with consultancy...
    Care to elaborate on your final point?
    Depending on the field, consultancy rates in London are upwards of £3k per day right now, I've seen some advertising their time for £10k per day outside IR35. Not sure how much work they get though.
    I am clearly not charging enough.
    Neither am I!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
    Other than Jezza, not a single person in political position is advocating the later is a workable option. And Jezza solution is seize the ships and nationalise, so I don't think he has had much legal advice.

    Also current employees can expect achievable wages of about £28/hr. Nobody is going to legalisate for that.
    I’ll be shouted down, but basically the solution will be a market one if there is one. Customers must vote with their feet if they care. I will. There are other ways over the channel, even for freight.

    Edit - Especially for freight, I suppose the Government could incentivise the right actions.
    I think Starmer's call on public sector not giving them contracts is something that is actionable. No idea what proportion of this income comes from that.
    Perhaps, but I’d want us to be clear on a policy for all firms and avoid being bespoke for P&O.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
    Putin's Battalions of the Undead. "You aren't allowed to die until I say so."
    Anyone who says someone is dead will face 15 years in prison.
    Along with the undead person involved, who will serve solitary for the duration
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    biggles said:

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
    It is.

    I'm starting to seriously question now as to whether smart missiles have rendered tanks obsolete in the same way bombers rendered battleships obsolete in WW2.
    Not for a combined arms force with well trained infantry and effective close in air defence, plus DAS on the tanks. But it a a balance, and the balance will now be to have fewer.
    Luckily for Russia, they now have a lot fewer tanks!!!!
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,074
    Russian casualties are awfully high, yet the war has only just started in the absence of a surprise peace deal. Russia is so far away from winning its main objectives (including taking Kyiv) that we will likely see many more months of attributional warfare that will multiply the number of dead and wounded.

    And I fail to see how Putin can sell a peace deal as a victory that doesn't extend Russian territory beyond the Crimea and Donbas regions, or have a Russian-friendly government in Kyiv.

    Yet if losses continue at this rate, will Russia put up with Putin's war forever? I hope that maybe, just maybe, a tipping point will eventually come in the absence of other ways for the war to end.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    BigRich said:

    biggles said:

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
    It is.

    I'm starting to seriously question now as to whether smart missiles have rendered tanks obsolete in the same way bombers rendered battleships obsolete in WW2.
    Not for a combined arms force with well trained infantry and effective close in air defence, plus DAS on the tanks. But it a a balance, and the balance will now be to have fewer.
    Luckily for Russia, they now have a lot fewer tanks!!!!
    Military tactics refined by evolution…
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    biggles said:

    stodge said:


    The Mayor's precept goes towards the funding for both the Metropolitan Police and the London Fire Brigade. Police numbers were cut back during the Johnson administration and that has been reversed to some extent by Khan but policing remains a huge issue in the capital.

    There's also a £20 levy for all Londoners to help support Transport for London which is effectively bust financially and living on Government funding/bailouts.

    Actually the really criminal thing Boris did in London was preserve frontline police numbers at the expense of other police staff and PCSOs. Means London has a lot of expensive coppers doing non-police roles (or at least roles that need not be warranted officers), because it was apolitically attractive.
    The other thing was the closing of operational police stations such as East Ham. This means a suspect has to be taken further to a remaining station which takes the officers off the beat for longer and degrades the quality of policing (it is the Met, after all, but there are some very good local officers).

    The other operational problem was the view taken by a former Prime Minister as Home Secretary when she decreed officers should be in vehicles covering more ground than on foot patrol. I must admit the only Police I see are in vans and usually stopping to get refreshments - another casualty of the closing of Police stations was Police canteens - now, if you need a police officer, go to Tesco's, you'll usually find a vanload getting some sandwiches for their refs.

    Once again, cost of everything, value of nothing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    edited March 2022
    No doubt this point is so bleedin' obvious that it's been made before, but is this the Russo-Japanese war redux, an imperial power full of hubris and complacency finding their technology and fighting capabilities were a bit rubbish? This line struck me: 'The loss of life without victory and the humiliating defeat for the Russian Empire contributed to growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution and accelerated the disintegration of the Russian autocracy'.
    Of course that left a lot of years of misery to come.

    It seems that despite victory the Japanese lost more lives than Russia which surprised me a bit.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,702
    edited March 2022
    Ratters said:

    Russian casualties are awfully high, yet the war has only just started in the absence of a surprise peace deal. Russia is so far away from winning its main objectives (including taking Kyiv) that we will likely see many more months of attributional warfare that will multiply the number of dead and wounded.

    And I fail to see how Putin can sell a peace deal as a victory that doesn't extend Russian territory beyond the Crimea and Donbas regions, or have a Russian-friendly government in Kyiv.

    Yet if losses continue at this rate, will Russia put up with Putin's war forever? I hope that maybe, just maybe, a tipping point will eventually come in the absence of other ways for the war to end.

    Great typo. False-flagging could be described as "attributional warfare". It's the Russian MO.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    stodge said:

    biggles said:

    stodge said:


    The Mayor's precept goes towards the funding for both the Metropolitan Police and the London Fire Brigade. Police numbers were cut back during the Johnson administration and that has been reversed to some extent by Khan but policing remains a huge issue in the capital.

    There's also a £20 levy for all Londoners to help support Transport for London which is effectively bust financially and living on Government funding/bailouts.

    Actually the really criminal thing Boris did in London was preserve frontline police numbers at the expense of other police staff and PCSOs. Means London has a lot of expensive coppers doing non-police roles (or at least roles that need not be warranted officers), because it was apolitically attractive.
    The other thing was the closing of operational police stations such as East Ham. This means a suspect has to be taken further to a remaining station which takes the officers off the beat for longer and degrades the quality of policing (it is the Met, after all, but there are some very good local officers).

    The other operational problem was the view taken by a former Prime Minister as Home Secretary when she decreed officers should be in vehicles covering more ground than on foot patrol. I must admit the only Police I see are in vans and usually stopping to get refreshments - another casualty of the closing of Police stations was Police canteens - now, if you need a police officer, go to Tesco's, you'll usually find a vanload getting some sandwiches for their refs.

    Once again, cost of everything, value of nothing.
    Yes. There’s some evidence based thinking in there (I can well believe that a mobile response force is a really important component) but it’s almost like bits and pieces of evidence were used in isolation to fit a preordained strategy. And, of course, you can re-recruit 20,000 officers but you probably can’t reopen that station.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,505
    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    Nigelb said:

    Last days of the Third Reich stuff if true…

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1505955060408324103
    Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reports

    Desperate.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    No doubt this point is so bleedin' obvious that it's been made before, but is this the Russo-Japanese war redux, an imperial power full of hubris and complacency finding their technology and fighting capabilities were a bit rubbish? This line struck me: 'The loss of life without victory and the humiliating defeat for the Russian Empire contributed to growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution and accelerated the disintegration of the Russian autocracy'.
    Of course that left a lot of years of misery to come.

    It seems that despite victory the Japanese lost more lives than Russia which surprised me a bit.

    That war is on my reading list as I know sod all about it. Where is that from?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    Erm…. He has lost it. Any country could veto a return couldn’t they? Including….. Ukraine.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.

    Then there's this claim:

    "A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine
    @AvakovArsen
    shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1505961677371621379

    There is still a disparity between Russian admitted casualties and that 'leek' but here is my attempt to pece together:

    So if the Russians have had 17,265 killed but are only calming 9,861 killed that's an 75.1% difference.

    If we use the same ratio on wounded that would be 16,153 timed 1.751 implying total of 28,284 wounded.

    If we add that together with the 1000 POW Ukraine clamed to have taken:

    Killed: 17,265
    Wounded: 28,284
    POW: 1,000
    Total: 46,549

    Maybe that's not accurate, will we ever find out. but that's a summary for 18 march so probably only includes losses on or before 17 march, so add on 4 more days fighting to that
    If even half accurate those are utterly awful figures.
    Perhaps we now know why so many generals are being killed, there is nobody else left to carry a rifle?!?!?!?!?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,818
    The US was saying 7000 deaths a few days ago so 10,000 is not unbelievable. There was talk a few days ago about Putin sending elite forces from Moscow to help out which might leave him somewhat exposed.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,702

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    The strange allure of autarky.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,238

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    I would take issue with many of those points. At least in detail.

    Firstly, we must recall that the Ukrainians have had a lot of success in ambushing Russian supply convoys. This means that a lot of Russian losses will be in support and logistics roles, rather than elite front line troops.

    Secondly, it also means that we would not expect Ukraine to necessarily have lost just as many troops, as they've often been able use their superior organisation to create a local superiority of forces at the point of contact - and so you would hope they would be able to cause more casualties than they've suffered.

    Thirdly, the pre-war population of Kherson was 289,000.

    I feel a bit more positive about Ukrainian prospects then I did a couple of days ago, though.
    Of the 1600+ vehicles the Russians are reported to have lost (Oryx photo confirmed), sure, 545 were supply trucks and jeeps. But 818 were tanks, AFVs, IFVs, APCs, and IMVs. Say 5 on average per vehicle, that is over 4000 right there.
    Ah. The Russians are now saying that the Komsomolskaya Pravda website was hacked.

    More underlings headed for the Gulags
    Ironic, you have to hack Pravda to get the truth....
    It is the Young Communist Truth, a contradiction in terms if there was one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618

    The US was saying 7000 deaths a few days ago so 10,000 is not unbelievable. There was talk a few days ago about Putin sending elite forces from Moscow to help out which might leave him somewhat exposed.

    I can't see him doing that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,486

    TimT said:

    That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.

    Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?

    Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
    Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
    The whole thing is tragic.

    I'm pleased the Russians are being seriously impeded but I can't imagine it's any fun being a conscript in a tank and then getting hit by an NLAW.
    The only saving grace is would be pretty quick for the poor sods.

    But it is an unimaginable horror, being conscripted into that hell. Thankfully, not one that I can ever expect to experience first hand. If they get to me, it's going very, very badly....
    It is.

    I'm starting to seriously question now as to whether smart missiles have rendered tanks obsolete in the same way bombers rendered battleships obsolete in WW2.
    I'm wondering the same about helicopters. There's only so much chaff they can chuck out - and an awful lot of manpads in theatre. If you can't get your choppers up, you cant shift infantry round at speed. And they do seem to have been picked off by artillery/special forces whilst on the deck, wondering what to do. Ukrainian claimed kills of helicopters are towards 100, I think. Which is a remarkable loss.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    biggles said:

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    Erm…. He has lost it. Any country could veto a return couldn’t they? Including….. Ukraine.
    Ukraine is not a country in his head. So they don't have a veto on anything, right?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.

    Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:

    The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
    https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/


    So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
    This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
    It also ignores the number of "private Russian subcontractors", which is probably another 5k dead.

    The British lost 255 servicemen in recapturing the Falkland Islands. The Russians have lost at least fifty times that number in - so far - failing to invade Ukraine.

    There were - apparently - 200k troops massed on the Ukrainian borders. But front line strength will probably be more like 125k. This means that adding together killed, wounded and captured, the Russians have lost maybe a quarter of their front line troops.

    Those numbers are utterly horrendous. And bear in mind, they still haven't captured Kiev or Kharkov or any city of more than about 100,000 people.

    Of course, the Ukrainians have probably lost just as many. But the Ukrainian forces are at home, fighting for their country, and they outnumber the Russians vastly.
    And, Putin can't hide those sort of numbers: if you're dead, you're dead.

    It can't be covered up and those affected will notice.
    Putin's Battalions of the Undead. "You aren't allowed to die until I say so."
    Given that one of the greatest of all Russian novels is about buying and selling 'dead souls', I suppose it fits in with Putin's goal of Making Russia Great Again.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    biggles said:

    No doubt this point is so bleedin' obvious that it's been made before, but is this the Russo-Japanese war redux, an imperial power full of hubris and complacency finding their technology and fighting capabilities were a bit rubbish? This line struck me: 'The loss of life without victory and the humiliating defeat for the Russian Empire contributed to growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution and accelerated the disintegration of the Russian autocracy'.
    Of course that left a lot of years of misery to come.

    It seems that despite victory the Japanese lost more lives than Russia which surprised me a bit.

    That war is on my reading list as I know sod all about it. Where is that from?
    Just Wiki, though I'm sure there must be decent books on it. I don't know much about it either but it always seemed to me to be an appropriate entrée to a pretty miserable half century.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    President Biden warned on Monday that Russia is exploring the possibility of waging potential cyberattacks against the United States in retaliation for economic penalties imposed on Moscow for the invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,714

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    Not a UK employer, and employees not employed within current UK rules jurisdiction ?
    Though the latter point could be changed.
    Other than Jezza, not a single person in political position is advocating the later is a workable option. And Jezza solution is seize the ships and nationalise, so I don't think he has had much legal advice.

    Also current employees can expect achievable wages of about £28/hr. Nobody is going to legalisate for that.
    I’ll be shouted down, but basically the solution will be a market one if there is one. Customers must vote with their feet if they care. I will. There are other ways over the channel, even for freight.

    Edit - Especially for freight, I suppose the Government could incentivise the right actions.
    I think Starmer's call on public sector not giving them contracts is something that is actionable. No idea what proportion of this income comes from that.
    Yes, blocking companies that don't "meet UK working conditions" from public contracts is a very easy and tangible step. Enforcing the minimum wage within the UK is another step we could take but it will significantly raise the cost of shipping goods to the UK as big cargo ships are all flagged in countries with no minimum wage rules like Panama so those routes would simply skip the UK and we'd have routes from Rotterdam to the UK staffed with UK and EU only workers paid £10-13 per hour.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    biggles said:

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    Erm…. He has lost it. Any country could veto a return couldn’t they? Including….. Ukraine.
    Ukraine is not a country in his head. So they don't have a veto on anything, right?
    Ah, yes, of course. How silly of me…
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,714

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    That's completely insane. Putin will have a Jerry Maguire moment, life will continue as before and no one will go with him.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    biggles said:

    No doubt this point is so bleedin' obvious that it's been made before, but is this the Russo-Japanese war redux, an imperial power full of hubris and complacency finding their technology and fighting capabilities were a bit rubbish? This line struck me: 'The loss of life without victory and the humiliating defeat for the Russian Empire contributed to growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution and accelerated the disintegration of the Russian autocracy'.
    Of course that left a lot of years of misery to come.

    It seems that despite victory the Japanese lost more lives than Russia which surprised me a bit.

    That war is on my reading list as I know sod all about it. Where is that from?
    Just Wiki, though I'm sure there must be decent books on it. I don't know much about it either but it always seemed to me to be an appropriate entrée to a pretty miserable half century.
    That whole transition of Japan from isolation after the mid-nineteenth century fascinates me. As you say - almost like the world was born.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    As one of the analysts said on twitter the other day, most of these 'hardened war fighting' Syrians will actually end up as refugees heading to Berlin before the month is out.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,818
    Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    I suspect if true it is a sign of desperation.

    Aren't these the people supposed to be defending Assad? Will no-one give a thought to him. I suspect he's feeling as uncomfortable as Lukashenko*

    *if he had any self awareness
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    Ruth Deyermond
    @ruth_deyermond
    ·
    2h
    Less than a month since starting this war of choice, the *official* figure of the number of Russian army dead is roughly equivalent to two thirds of the number of Soviet troops killed in the whole war in Afghanistan.

    https://twitter.com/ruth_deyermond/status/1505982139825008642

    ===

    Narrator: And then the Soviet Union collapsed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022
    I am guessing this isn't standard military procedure....fill her up, remember it takes diesel....and i want Haribo for the journey. FFS sergei, you have stuck premium unleaded in it.

    Russian forces looting a gas station https://t.co/c8CBC72Ftj
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Could we get the queen on the blower to command request the Indians to stop buying cut-rate Russian oil?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    Long thread on US DoD view of where things are:


    Jeff Seldin
    @jseldin
    ·
    6h
    #Russia|n combat power in #Ukraine "at just below 90%" per a senior US defense official

    "They're expending an awful lot but you have to remember they also built up an awful lot"

    Official adds #Moscow continues to discuss bringing in reinforcements but no signs yet of movement


    https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1505913133352763394
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,500
    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live
  • Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    Not sure the Syrians would be particularly seasoned in the type of warfare they would encounter in Ukraine. For a start, the Ukrainians would be apt to fire back, and since they are defending their own country they would have the edge in motivation.

    I should think any Syrian fighter worth his salt would want good pay, in advance, and not in rubles.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,760

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So posters slate the government for not doing enough/ anything about P&O, but when the question is asked - what should they do? - no one answers.
    Still waiting.

    Some suggestions.
    Do not allow the employment of staff at less than the NMW in UK waters.
    Do not allow those without a permit to work in a UK port.
    Make sure that every bureaucratic requirement in P&O ports is enforced with the upmost rigour.
    End all State based contracts for their services on the basis that their employment arrangements are incompatible with UK standards.

    I am sure there is more we could do.
    Cheers. Some would require legislation?
    Almost certainly. But it could be passed in a day if the will was there. Come on Govester. You know when not to mess about.
    Could it be, that HMG already possesses emergency powers via orders in council, etc, as per existing statues?
    IANAE on the laws of the sea. I suspect at least some of my proposals would potentially breach agreements designed to facilitate safe and free passage etc. But it should certainly be explored.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    Cosplaying the whole Churchill desperate to be on the spot on D Day but backing down having been told by George VI he would also have to go in that scenario.
    Wanker.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925
    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    This is tooth-and-claw capitalism. If you can find someone cheaper to do the work, you hire them and sack the expensive workers. It's one of the basic tenets of business - the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    If P&O want to live by capitalism, let them die by capitalism. Use their competitors and reduce their turnover.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    Rexit?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    biggles said:

    No doubt this point is so bleedin' obvious that it's been made before, but is this the Russo-Japanese war redux, an imperial power full of hubris and complacency finding their technology and fighting capabilities were a bit rubbish? This line struck me: 'The loss of life without victory and the humiliating defeat for the Russian Empire contributed to growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution and accelerated the disintegration of the Russian autocracy'.
    Of course that left a lot of years of misery to come.

    It seems that despite victory the Japanese lost more lives than Russia which surprised me a bit.

    That war is on my reading list as I know sod all about it. Where is that from?
    ok its not a book, and will not give you a knowledge of the whole war, but this video on the second pacific squadron is both accurate and very funny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022

    Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    Not sure the Syrians would be particularly seasoned in the type of warfare they would encounter in Ukraine. For a start, the Ukrainians would be apt to fire back, and since they are defending their own country they would have the edge in motivation.

    I should think any Syrian fighter worth his salt would want good pay, in advance, and not in rubles.
    Like the Chechens, they have experience in fighting in urban environments, street by street. I am sure the Russians would be happy to let them do this and take heavy losses.

    Past 2 days, they dropped the Cechens into central mariupol to do just this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    Biden needs to stop him. Utterly reckless madness. Or perhaps Carrie can have a word?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,818
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    I thought this a few weeks ago. Actually it wouldn't surprise me. He's reckless, he's expendable, it would have real symbolism. As much as I dislike him, if he can do something useful I'm all for it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,714

    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    BREAKING 🚨: P&O ferry crews at Dover have been replaced by seafarers paid just £1.80 an hour.

    Do the UK's minimum wage rules not apply? And if not, why not?
    This is tooth-and-claw capitalism. If you can find someone cheaper to do the work, you hire them and sack the expensive workers. It's one of the basic tenets of business - the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    If P&O want to live by capitalism, let them die by capitalism. Use their competitors and reduce their turnover.
    That's ultimately the way to do it, punters need to vote with their feet and use other providers. If the company goes bankrupt it's hardly a loss, they pay no taxes in the UK.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    The RT editor is saying that Russia is leaving the WTO.

    Rexit?
    Well, it certainly doesn't do it much good
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,618

    Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    Not sure the Syrians would be particularly seasoned in the type of warfare they would encounter in Ukraine. For a start, the Ukrainians would be apt to fire back, and since they are defending their own country they would have the edge in motivation.

    I should think any Syrian fighter worth his salt would want good pay, in advance, and not in rubles.
    Like the Chechens, they have experience in fighting in urban environments, street by street. I am sure the Russians would be happy to let them do this and take heavy losses.

    Past 2 days, they dropped the Cechens into central mariupol to do just this.

    Jeff Seldin
    @jseldin
    ·
    2h
    #Russia-#ForeignFighters-#Ukraine

    "We have not seen any indications that foreign fighters outside of private military contractors have flowed into #Ukraine" per
    @PentagonPresSec
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022
    Can you imagine the discussions with the likes of the SAS...Boris wants to go to Kyiv, we need a security team to go with and special forces backup in case anything goes South...i think there would be lots of industrial language to put it mildly.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    Cosplaying the whole Churchill desperate to be on the spot on D Day but backing down having been told by George VI he would also have to go in that scenario.
    Wanker.

    Does that mean the queen would have to go also?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    Does Boris think there’s free Booze and a party in Ukraine?
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,125
    biggles said:


    That whole transition of Japan from isolation after the mid-nineteenth century fascinates me. As you say - almost like the world was born.

    Yes, it's a really interesting period of history. If you can find a second hand copy, I liked Pat Barr's _The Coming of the Barbarians_ which gives the westerner's-eye-view of it by drawing on accounts left by the variety of merchants, diplomats, and chancers who descended on Japan during the 1850s and 1860s in the period just after Perry forced the opening of the ports. (By its nature, this is hardly a neutral point of view of events, of course.)

    Seidensticker's _Low City, High City_ covers Tokyo 1867-1923, and is another book I recommend.

    Finally, if you happen to also be a train nerd, _Early Japanese Railways 1853-1914_ by Dan Free is superb on the topic of the Japanese railway system's development from small steps totally reliant on foreign assistance to independent operation, and is copiously illustrated with photos and other period items from the author's personal collection.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925
    Back to local elections. The SNP could lose Glasgow. If Labour win a few more seats, they would be the largest party. Labour are desperate to regain Glasgow. They could make the Greens an offer they couldn’t refuse in order to form an administration, possibly with the Conservatives tacit support. Labour will also have the support of the Daily Record, the Herald, the Evening Times and BBC Scotland, as well as Unison, who are already threatening strikes. What would be really interesting is if Alba retain their two councillors and hold the balance of power. Would the SNP be willing to give up the administration of the council or accept Alba support to retain control?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    He shouldn't, whatever his motivation. He talks to Zelensky practically every day it seems, that's enough.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,829
    edited March 2022

    Toms said:

    Ukrainians and most (?) Russians are Slavs I believe. I read somewhere (DANGER !!!) that Russia is recruiting Syrians to fight for them. I expect that such would be seasoned fighters and have fewer compunctions about killing Slavs.

    By the way, if BJ's remark about Brexit and Ukrainian freedom makes me seethe, how should I respond to trump's comment that Putin's invasion was genius?

    Not sure the Syrians would be particularly seasoned in the type of warfare they would encounter in Ukraine. For a start, the Ukrainians would be apt to fire back, and since they are defending their own country they would have the edge in motivation.

    I should think any Syrian fighter worth his salt would want good pay, in advance, and not in rubles.
    Like the Chechens, they have experience in fighting in urban environments, street by street. I am sure the Russians would be happy to let them do this and take heavy losses.

    Past 2 days, they dropped the Cechens into central mariupol to do just this.

    Jeff Seldin
    @jseldin
    ·
    2h
    #Russia-#ForeignFighters-#Ukraine

    "We have not seen any indications that foreign fighters outside of private military contractors have flowed into #Ukraine" per
    @PentagonPresSec
    Cechans are there. There is plenty of video of them including in Mariupol. Syria, I think it was more there were posting on social media channels asking for people.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,125
    edited March 2022


    I thought this a few weeks ago. Actually it wouldn't surprise me. He's reckless, he's expendable, it would have real symbolism. As much as I dislike him, if he can do something useful I'm all for it.

    If.

    (Or, less pithily, I don't put much weight on symbolism and think it would be a pointless risk and massive distraction for anybody in Ukraine who had to deal with it.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    edited March 2022
    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    Cosplaying the whole Churchill desperate to be on the spot on D Day but backing down having been told by George VI he would also have to go in that scenario.
    Wanker.

    Does that mean the queen would have to go also?
    A Royal withn military experience, Prince Andrew? That would be a twofer..
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281

    Nigelb said:

    Last days of the Third Reich stuff if true…

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1505955060408324103
    Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reports

    Desperate.
    The Ukrainian border agency said today that 400,000 Ukrainians had returned to the country since the start of the war, about 75-80% men, presumably mostly to help defend the country from the Russians.

    The gap in willingness to fight is very large.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson "desperate" to go to Ukraine - senior Conservative

    The Tory chairman, Oliver Dowden, has claimed British prime minister Boris Johnson is “desperate to go to Ukraine” and has a “real emotional connection” with the Ukrainian people."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-kyiv-rejects-moscows-deadline-for-mariupol-surrender-biden-to-visit-poland-live

    Send the idiot to Mariupol.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,914
    Jonathan said:

    Does Boris think there’s free Booze and a party in Ukraine?

    Perhaps there's some dogs that need rescuing.
This discussion has been closed.