It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
It would seem that it can only be done through international maritime law so I doubt anything will happen
Nope. I am an international maritime lawyer to the extent there is such a thing, and nothing in the world stops France from saying I don't care what flag you are flying, if you don't pay minimum wage you aren't using my ports.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
You are talking complete nonsense. You, personally, may like our country less. But you aren't everyone. As someone who voted remain you are, just about, in a minority. Presumably the shame you feel is outweighed by the increased self respect of those who got the result they wanted.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from all international cargo shipping, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos, all to ensure a rule on a couple of P&O ferries.
It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
It would seem that it can only be done through international maritime law so I doubt anything will happen
Nope. I am an international maritime lawyer to the extent there is such a thing, and nothing in the world stops France from saying I don't care what flag you are flying, if you don't pay minimum wage you aren't using my ports.
Boris Johnson’s (38%, down 1%) lead over Keir Starmer (36%, no change) has narrowed slightly in terms of who Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK at this moment.
This is dismal stuff for Boris. Unless Ukraine spontaneously appoints him President for life, this is as good as his war gets for him. What a shame.
Actually not a bad poll for Boris, he still leads Starmer as preferred PM 38% to 36%.
Sunak however can only tie Starmer as preferred PM 37% each.
A 5% lead for the opposition is par for the course midterm, especially after 10 years in power
That's interesting. Since 1992, the only time the opposition has had a consistent 5%+ lead in midterm and NOT then won the subsequent election was 2019 when UKIP were polling big.
We've only had two changes of government since 1992, so presumably that means of the three occasions it's happened, there's been a change of government twice, and once not.
Exactly. So it certainly isn't "par for the course" and in fact, in the only case the Conservatives could in theory take solace from this "only 5%" lead, the polling circumstances were dramatically different from today as a result of UKIP.
Not that I'm saying this means "Labour are nailed on" - far from it. But you can't blithely say that this is "normal" (and therefore "not bad for Boris")
It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
It would seem that it can only be done through international maritime law so I doubt anything will happen
Nope. I am an international maritime lawyer to the extent there is such a thing, and nothing in the world stops France from saying I don't care what flag you are flying, if you don't pay minimum wage you aren't using my ports.
Can they even do that for ships who are registered in the EU though? That would surely be restriction of goods and services from another EU country.
Logically that would prevent most vessels docking in French ports
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that.
On the City, what I've noticed is that it's the default option for smart people who don't like what they were doing in their previous industry, whether that's engineering, science or anything else. I was a software developer working 60-80h per week before I left for a City career where I worked the same 60-80 hour week but at least got paid well for my time.
I don't think it is a big lure for people who enjoy what they do and I'm not sure losing disinterested engineers or scientists from those fields to the City is really a huge deal.
Software engineering market is crazy at the moment.
Indeed, I know a startup that has a £10k referral bounty for senior engineers.
That being roughly on a par with recruiter fees for a senior engineering salary.
It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
Is there not some national authorisation or regulation of ferry services? Can anyone with a boat simply set up in Dover and flog tickets for Calais?
I would assume that most ferries transit in international water where country legislation will not apply, hence Maritime law
I have also realised that cruise ships must be taking the same advantage of their crews and in view of the charges to the passengers it must be a gold mine of a business
I would suggest P & O should be boycotted
Cruise ships absolutely do this. I forgotten the exact percentage, but across the whole global maritime industry, Filipinos make up some astonishing percentage these days.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
Leave is on the side of the angels, and that no sane country able to fend for itself would want to be in the non-democratic EU
You think Ukraine, literally fighting for it's life, is not a sane country.
Brexiteers, wrong then, wronger now...
Head::desk
I said "able to fend for itself". Ukraine is pretty bloody obviously NOT in that position. It is a poor country being attacked by a massive ugly fascist neighbour
If I were Ukrainian I'd vote tomorrow to join the EU (if the EU agreed: very doubtful). It's the best way to get protection (other than joining NATO, but that's not happening), and EU funds might help to rebuild my shattered country, and rid it of corruption
The UK is a big strong economy, being menaced by no one, we have nukes, so no one will invade us, we are not Ukraine
I notice that Switzerland and Norway are not clamouring to join the EU either. Indeed polls show seriously high levels of opposition to the idea
You're wasting your time. There are a handful of people on either side of the debate who are just obsessed with the UK's position in the EU and fighting the battles all over again.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
It would seem that it can only be done through international maritime law so I doubt anything will happen
Nope. I am an international maritime lawyer to the extent there is such a thing, and nothing in the world stops France from saying I don't care what flag you are flying, if you don't pay minimum wage you aren't using my ports.
Can they even do that for ships who are registered in the EU though? That would surely be restriction of goods and services from another EU country.
Registering in the EU = submitting to employment law of the relevant EU country, so the question doesn't arise
It is shocking and I just do not understand why HMG and the Unions have not applied for an injuction
Its because in reality there isn't much you can do. Maritime laws are such that the terms and conditions of those employed are based upon where a ship is registered, and there are plenty of options for countries who will happily register your vessel while very limited worker guarantees.
Its requires a reform on a greater level than even that minimum tax rate that leading nations agreed last year.
“Its because in reality there isn't much you can do”
Bullshit. The government could enforce minimum wage, at least, if they wanted to.
It’s a deliberate choice by government to allow modern slavery by P&O.
Because that’s their ideology and because it suits their voters interests.
Sickening.
No they couldn't. The ship is registered in Cyprus. This is international maritime rules, ship owners are free by these laws to register where ever they wish. Even if Cyprus decide to up their minimum wage, there are many other countries such as Panama, who will happily accept their registration fee.
It is surprising that ferries plying a regular route are not regulated differently.
Seems Maritime law is the arbiter and to be honest I did not know that
Well it is, but there is meant to be a shift going on from flag control to port control of vessels, and you'd have thought that was really easily enforced on a UK-france ferry company. In fact what you'd hope is those sclerotic tyrants in the EU will impose minimum wage on ferries wanting to operate from EU ports.
It would seem that it can only be done through international maritime law so I doubt anything will happen
Nope. I am an international maritime lawyer to the extent there is such a thing, and nothing in the world stops France from saying I don't care what flag you are flying, if you don't pay minimum wage you aren't using my ports.
Can they even do that for ships who are registered in the EU though? That would surely be restriction of goods and services from another EU country.
Registering in the EU = submitting to employment law of the relevant EU country, so the question doesn't arise
And they are.....Cyrpus....no national minimum wage. Hence £2 / hour. So France can't say you aren't meeting relevant employment laws. Hence why France aren't booting them out of ports either.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from all international cargo shipping, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos, all to ensure a rule on a couple of P&O ferries.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
Leave is on the side of the angels, and that no sane country able to fend for itself would want to be in the non-democratic EU
You think Ukraine, literally fighting for it's life, is not a sane country.
Brexiteers, wrong then, wronger now...
Head::desk
I said "able to fend for itself". Ukraine is pretty bloody obviously NOT in that position. It is a poor country being attacked by a massive ugly fascist neighbour
If I were Ukrainian I'd vote tomorrow to join the EU (if the EU agreed: very doubtful). It's the best way to get protection (other than joining NATO, but that's not happening), and EU funds might help to rebuild my shattered country, and rid it of corruption
The UK is a big strong economy, being menaced by no one, we have nukes, so no one will invade us, we are not Ukraine
I notice that Switzerland and Norway are not clamouring to join the EU either. Indeed polls show seriously high levels of opposition to the idea
You're wasting your time. There are a handful of people on either side of the debate who are just obsessed with the UK's position in the EU and fighting the battles all over again.
What and @Leon isn't one of them? He is constantly trying to convince himself, every time I come on here, he can't get off the subject. And why not, it was quite important. I shall continue to goad @Leon and all like him, to show this utopia that has still yet to transpire, and whether I might have to wait until 2116 to see any genuine Brexit dividends lol.
Yes he did, and I did pointedly say on either side of the debate. On Brexit he is just as tedious as Scott N Paste.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
I think the onus is the other way. Governments can on the whole do whatever they bloody like. Your point about distinguishing ferries from cargo ships is nonsensical because a. you can tell just by looking at them which they are just as you can tell a cat is not a dog and b. you don't even have to do that because all ships without exception will have SOLAS documentation which categorises them as one thing or the other.
It's odd how suddenly people are taking an interest in sailors' welfare. The international community turn a blind eye whilst tens of thousands of sailors are poorly treated - just so we can get our goods for a few pence cheaper. From ships sailors can never leave because their owners have abandoned them, to ones that sail even though they are overdue repair and are never seen again.
How many ship sunk last year? (Note: not all on the list are accidental sinkings, or commercial ships)
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
Well we have also had the why haven't the government just seized all Russian property in the UK yesterday.... because the lawyers clearly told them that isn't legal, you will get your arsed sued for billions, you need a work around i.e. UK companies aren't allowed to sell goods and services to them, so can't pay the leccy bill.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
Domestic routes I can understand but not ships or ferries that cross international waters
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
Also it’s not a British company, it’s owners are based in Dubai.
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
But you don’t even live here anymore. You despise us. You’re living in your wonderful EU
You’re like a guy who divorced his wife for being ugly who keeps going round her house with a megaphone to shout ‘you’re still ugly, you bitch’
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that banned fire / rehire practices.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that allowed fire / rehire.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that allowed fire / rehire.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
It's odd how suddenly people are taking an interest in sailors' welfare. The international community turn a blind eye whilst tens of thousands of sailors are poorly treated - just so we can get our goods for a few pence cheaper. From ships sailors can never leave because their owners have abandoned them, to ones that sail even though they are overdue repair and are never seen again.
How many ship sunk last year? (Note: not all on the list are accidental sinkings, or commercial ships)
Have you ever been to sea? It's an inherently unsafe environment. Most of the deaths in that lot are boatloads of refugees. If you confine yourself to actual registered ships, the safety record is astonishingly good. You can dick about with Liberian flags for tax and employment law purposes, but that doesn't affect your SOLAS and classification society requirements. The industry is heavily and efficiently regulated. So what "scandal" are you actually on about?
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that allowed fire / rehire.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
A lot of ill-informed hang-wringing about P&O.
Just don't give them your business.
Exactly plus the cruise ships
Not that as I understand it you are thinking of cruising again, but its worth noting P&O cruises aren't the same company as P&O ferries. They probably already employ their staff on £2 / hour....
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that banned fire / rehire practices.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
The International Transport Workers' Federation do a lot of good work on FoCs.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
Also it’s not a British company, it’s owners are based in Dubai.
Tories shit on own doorstep, and then try to blame it on the neighbour’s dug.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
But you don’t even live here anymore. You despise us. You’re living in your wonderful EU
You’re like a guy who divorced his wife for being ugly who keeps going round her house with a megaphone to shout ‘you’re still ugly, you bitch’
Quite bizarre, and rather sad
Megaphone bore extraordinaire accuses others of loud behaviour.
European Council president, Charles Michel, is to meet with Boris Johnson to discuss issues surrounding the Northern Ireland Protocol
In a call this afternoon the PM told Michel that solutions must be found in order to protect peace and stability and safeguard the Good Friday agreement in all its dimensions
Bit late for him to admit that he hasn;t found a solution.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
European Council president, Charles Michel, is to meet with Boris Johnson to discuss issues surrounding the Northern Ireland Protocol
In a call this afternoon the PM told Michel that solutions must be found in order to protect peace and stability and safeguard the Good Friday agreement in all its dimensions
Bit late for him to admit that he hasn;t found a solution.
What happened to old oven ready deal then
The oven-ready deal was Theresa May stitched up like a turkey.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that allowed fire / rehire.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
A lot of ill-informed hang-wringing about P&O.
Just don't give them your business.
Exactly plus the cruise ships
Not that as I understand it you are thinking of cruising again, but its worth noting P&O cruises aren't the same company as P&O ferries. They probably already employ their staff on £2 / hour....
Yes I did know that, as one of our early cruises was with P & O (to the Baltic and St Petersburg ironically) and Princess transferred loyalty points to us from P & O when we booked with them on another cruise
It's odd how suddenly people are taking an interest in sailors' welfare. The international community turn a blind eye whilst tens of thousands of sailors are poorly treated - just so we can get our goods for a few pence cheaper. From ships sailors can never leave because their owners have abandoned them, to ones that sail even though they are overdue repair and are never seen again.
How many ship sunk last year? (Note: not all on the list are accidental sinkings, or commercial ships)
Have you ever been to sea? It's an inherently unsafe environment. Most of the deaths in that lot are boatloads of refugees. If you confine yourself to actual registered ships, the safety record is astonishingly good. You can dick about with Liberian flags for tax and employment law purposes, but that doesn't affect your SOLAS and classification society requirements. The industry is heavily and efficiently regulated. So what "scandal" are you actually on about?
I've sailed on a tall ship.
And I think you're wrong. The industry is cr@p and filled with bad actors - as P&O shows. This happens all over the place.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
Domestic routes I can understand but not ships or ferries that cross international waters
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
So, you don't do that. You close your ports to foreign registered ferries which do not comply with whatever minimum wage legislation you choose to enforce.
If its legal and trivial, you would have thought Starmer (being a lawyer) would called for this straight away. Instead, all the suggestions are based around if the sacking of existing employees followed the correct procedures and if a new law should be implemented that allowed fire / rehire.
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
A lot of ill-informed hang-wringing about P&O.
Just don't give them your business.
Exactly. and if a chimney sweep sends 8 year old children up chimneys, just give your custom to a chimney sweep who doesn't. When did we become a nation of dickless snowflakes which has to pass legislation about this kind of thing?
[1834, but please don't complicate the issue by pointing this out]
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
Domestic routes I can understand but not ships or ferries that cross international waters
Leave is on the side of the angels, and that no sane country able to fend for itself would want to be in the non-democratic EU
You think Ukraine, literally fighting for it's life, is not a sane country.
Brexiteers, wrong then, wronger now...
Head::desk
I said "able to fend for itself". Ukraine is pretty bloody obviously NOT in that position. It is a poor country being attacked by a massive ugly fascist neighbour
If I were Ukrainian I'd vote tomorrow to join the EU (if the EU agreed: very doubtful). It's the best way to get protection (other than joining NATO, but that's not happening), and EU funds might help to rebuild my shattered country, and rid it of corruption
The UK is a big strong economy, being menaced by no one, we have nukes, so no one will invade us, we are not Ukraine
I notice that Switzerland and Norway are not clamouring to join the EU either. Indeed polls show seriously high levels of opposition to the idea
You're wasting your time. There are a handful of people on either side of the debate who are just obsessed with the UK's position in the EU and fighting the battles all over again.
What and @Leon isn't one of them? He is constantly trying to convince himself, every time I come on here, he can't get off the subject. And why not, it was quite important. I shall continue to goad @Leon and all like him, to show this utopia that has still yet to transpire, and whether I might have to wait until 2116 to see any genuine Brexit dividends lol.
Yes he did, and I did pointedly say on either side of the debate. On Brexit he is just as tedious as Scott N Paste.
Not half as tedious as Foremain who thinks he is some kind of big shot rather than a boring gammon. I bet he is ordered about at home like a dog and thinks he can come on here and pretend he is a bigshot. Leon could put the clown on a spit in a second.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
I think in these post brexit days we can decide who we open our ports to.
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
Is EU membership really the litmus test of cosmopolitanism?
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
Domestic routes I can understand but not ships or ferries that cross international waters
How about Larne to Cairnryan then?
Looks pretty international to the Dee Yoo Pee. Bunch of suckers.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
So how do all the EU countries manage to do it then.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
I think in these post brexit days we can decide who we open our ports to.
Even if a UK law was devised it would not help this dispute and anyway would have serious issues with Maritime Law
I assume nobody is suggesting the UK acts outside the law
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
That is complete and utter nonsense. Maritime law is a matter of national law in the nations where vessels are flagged, and the nations whose ports they visit.
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
Is EU membership really the litmus test of cosmopolitanism?
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Once you close ports to foreign registered ships you close your economy
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
Is EU membership really the litmus test of cosmopolitanism?
Not in itself.
But anyone who thinks animus against immigrants and London’s cosmopolitan nature was not a significant feature of Brexit is fooling themselves.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
Come on, explain how. How do the UK government enforcement the minimum wage of Cyprus....for the record, in fact there isn't a a national minimum wage in Cyprus at the moment.
By closing Dover to their ferries.
Next?
Would you like to cite the legal evidence that this is possible. I am going to presume it really isn't as simple as that. What I read was that as long as a ship is deemed seaworthy their transit can't be restricted like that.
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from international cargo ships, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos.
Odd thing to presume, and really not difficult. Full of people = ferry, full of stuff = cargo vessel.
You aren't probably any legal evidence for this.
The idea you close your ports to foreign flagged vessels is one of the most surreal suggestions I have heard
The US does it for domestic routes under the 1920 Jones Act.
Domestic routes I can understand but not ships or ferries that cross international waters
I am unclear why the PB Tory response to P&O Ferries is to shrug and say “that’s the way the maritime law crumbles”.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
I think in these post brexit days we can decide who we open our ports to.
Brexit has already significantly dented the underlying GDP growth rate, and foreign direct investment.
Although this has been masked, first by Covid, and now by supply shocks relating to the Ukraine war, it’s still there - like rust underneath the surface.
When Britain is once again the sick man of Europe, the "winners" of the referendum will be whining that the EU are making use of free trade and free movement to gain a competitive advantage against us...
Britain is already the sick man of Europe. Again, it’s hidden because the day to day news is about the latest thing rather than long-term trends.
The other thing is that old people - the bedrock of the Brexit vote - are less likely to notice the impact because they don’t work and house prices have continued to rise.
We were told by Remainers - quite gleefully - that the City of London would wither on the vine, eclipsed by Paris and Frankfurt.
Hur hur hur.....
I notice your posts often take a strange gloating style. It is quite odd and says more about you than anything else.
I think most analysts expected some loss of business from London, with the business going to various places - New York as well as some European cities.
I don’t remember anyone predicting - let alone “gleefully” - that London would be eclipsed.
Not that any city has a monopoly on such things, look at what the Chinese are doing to HK’s status as an entrepôt.
If you don't remember it then you do have a very selective memory. These pages were filled with claims that it would be the end of the City and that would be a disaster for the country - often by people who had spent years previously claiming that the City was some terrible evil that needed to be brought to heel as it was a disaster for the country.
It has been a disaster for the country in our loss of self respect. It'll take a long time to get over that. As a country we'll never be viewed the same again. The great cosmopolitan inclusive country that made us what we thought we were was a chimera. Farage turned out to be right.
But you don’t even live here anymore. You despise us. You’re living in your wonderful EU
You’re like a guy who divorced his wife for being ugly who keeps going round her house with a megaphone to shout ‘you’re still ugly, you bitch’
Quite bizarre, and rather sad
Megaphone bore extraordinaire accuses others of loud behaviour.
The lack of self-awareness is excruciating.
I understand your pain. When asked, the brave Brits, especially the noble English, said Yes, we want to be independent. Give us our freedom from Brussels
Whereas the Scots, when asked the same question, said, NO, we’d like stay a colony of England, thanks
Its worth noting that apparently those losing their jobs, their existing employment contracts weren't even in the UK, they were in Jersey, so again not subject to UK / EU law.
Andrew Neil @afneil Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.
Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:
The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure. https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/
So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
Apologies if anyone has already reported this but Kyiv Independent news feed https://kyivindependent.com/ is saying that China is sending humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Lots of interesting articles BTW including one (with lots of grisly detail inc. photos) stating that local Ukrainian and Russian commanders agreed to swap live Ukrainian prisoners for dead Russians who had been buried hastily in a mass grave. The ratio was 2 live for 6 dead.
"A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine @AvakovArsen shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."
I am unclear why the PB Tory response to P&O Ferries is to shrug and say “that’s the way the maritime law crumbles”.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
I hope the government cancels any business with them, and personally I will not use them. Other than that what else is left? Can the U.K. government make employment laws for other nations? Can we block their access to our ports ( and if yes on what grounds)?
Andrew Neil @afneil Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.
Was just about to post this, but see you beat me to it:
The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure. https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/
So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
This is going to come as quite a shock to the Russian public, who have hitherto been told ‘around 500 have died’. The reality is 20 times that
I am unclear why the PB Tory response to P&O Ferries is to shrug and say “that’s the way the maritime law crumbles”.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
As noted down thread, it is telling that other than Jezza "seize the ships and nationalise them", those people with some legal knowledge like Starmer are saying it boils my blood, we need to check that sacking procedure was followed correctly and the government shouldn't give them any public contracts....and....
My presumption from such a response is that he thinks that there is limited options, because even if there was the slightest of chances the government could ban P&O from ports etc, I am pretty sure he would call for it.
"A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine @AvakovArsen shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."
Thinks China needs to support Russia. Interesting reasoning whether or not entirely sound.
One striking thing is there is no mention of Europe. Suggests China fears the US but not European countries. Why not? Their ally has just launched the worst conflict in Europe since world war 2. Europe is a far more important trading partner to China than Russia. Time to apply some pressure.
That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.
Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?
Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.
Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?
You would normally just ignore any admitted Russian numbers. Anyone believe their Covid stats?
But these numbers are already so crushingly awful - and an admission that the Ukraine Govt. numbers have been right all along - that they surely must be ballpark.
And then you have to wonder: "Has Putin REALLY authorised their release?" Or is the military telling Russia: enough is enough?
I am unclear why the PB Tory response to P&O Ferries is to shrug and say “that’s the way the maritime law crumbles”.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
They have no moral backbone.
Because they are invertebrates, they assume the rest of us are too.
I am unclear why the PB Tory response to P&O Ferries is to shrug and say “that’s the way the maritime law crumbles”.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
They have no moral backbone.
Because they are invertebrates, they assume the rest of us are too.
Andrew Neil @afneil Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.
You can probably add several thousand to the dead figures and multiply up the injured
One key question here- why is the Russian MoD giving these numbers given they will prove a big shock to the public? Justification for a mass scaling up of firepower? Justification for a conscription call? Or is the Russian MoD looking to undermine Putin?
That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.
Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?
Typically it is higher, but a US expert was saying Russian casualties will be at a low dead/injured ratio compared to expected Western rates as they neither have the forward field hospital concept so are not getting the seriously wounded treated in the 'golden hour', nor do they have, because of logistics problems, more general medical care available for the wounded, and so many will die from infected wounds.
Plus many of the vehicles being taken out by these NATO weapons won't have any injured....several thousand degrees explosion inside a metal box tends to be terminal.
That RU injured figure must be nonsense if the dead figure really is 10k.
Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?
You would normally just ignore any admitted Russian numbers. Anyone believe their Covid stats?
But these numbers are already so crushingly awful - and an admission that the Ukraine Govt. numbers have been right all along - that they surely must be ballpark.
And then you have to wonder: "Has Putin REALLY authorised their release?" Or is the military telling Russia: enough is enough?
Didn't the head of the Russian equivalent of ONS release some COVID stats at one point that seems much more reasonable (and a hell of a lot higher than the daily figures). I presume they slipped on their balcony in the proceeding months.
"A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine @AvakovArsen shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."
Bearing in mind Russian problems with supply and communications and you can anticipate some difficulty in them counting an accurate figure. So it could yet be higher.
Heard on the radio earlier that the Ukrainian defence minister was in London today, praising our support in glowing terms.
It does look as though the Trilateral Alliance between the UK, Poland and Ukraine has some real substance behind it.
I can't say that I've often felt that I've had cause to say it, but I am proud of the role that Britain, and our government, has played in supporting Ukraine.
Also, bearing in mind that this was started under PM Cameron, and continued following two changes of Prime Minister, and four or five Defence Secretaries - including disgraced security risk Gavin Williamson - then some credit is also due to the permanent civil service who would have provided continuity.
"A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine @AvakovArsen shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."
I am uncomfortable wallowing in anyone's reported death, but I'll be glad if these numbers mean that the Wagner Group will find recruiting much harder.
2022 and a British company turns to slavery as a business decision.
But the rightwingers say “we can’t do anything”
That’s complete bullshit.
Take a long hard look at yourself.
This is not a right wing issue it seems it is the law as it stands
How would you change it ?
Easy do what other countries do , make it illegal to pay people peanuts and be able to sack people on a whim. As previously said stop them trading in the country until they meet minimum levels. Did you see P&O sack anyone in their EU countries, hint , big fat NO.
In that case you lose all the 4,000 jobs and are open to legal challenge
A legal challenge which can be overturned by changing the law if necessary.
Maritime Law is international law and needs countries across the world to change it
I think in these post brexit days we can decide who we open our ports to.
Even if a UK law was devised it would not help this dispute and anyway would have serious issues with Maritime Law
I assume nobody is suggesting the UK acts outside the law
Sorry, but this is mere windbaggery. The UK has various treaty obligations relating to navigation, but what this Maritime Law with the Spurious Capitalisation is that you are appealing to is, God knows. It doesn't exist.
Leave is on the side of the angels, and that no sane country able to fend for itself would want to be in the non-democratic EU
You think Ukraine, literally fighting for it's life, is not a sane country.
Brexiteers, wrong then, wronger now...
Head::desk
I said "able to fend for itself". Ukraine is pretty bloody obviously NOT in that position. It is a poor country being attacked by a massive ugly fascist neighbour
If I were Ukrainian I'd vote tomorrow to join the EU (if the EU agreed: very doubtful). It's the best way to get protection (other than joining NATO, but that's not happening), and EU funds might help to rebuild my shattered country, and rid it of corruption
The UK is a big strong economy, being menaced by no one, we have nukes, so no one will invade us, we are not Ukraine
I notice that Switzerland and Norway are not clamouring to join the EU either. Indeed polls show seriously high levels of opposition to the idea
You're wasting your time. There are a handful of people on either side of the debate who are just obsessed with the UK's position in the EU and fighting the battles all over again.
What and @Leon isn't one of them? He is constantly trying to convince himself, every time I come on here, he can't get off the subject. And why not, it was quite important. I shall continue to goad @Leon and all like him, to show this utopia that has still yet to transpire, and whether I might have to wait until 2116 to see any genuine Brexit dividends lol.
Yes he did, and I did pointedly say on either side of the debate. On Brexit he is just as tedious as Scott N Paste.
Not half as tedious as Foremain who thinks he is some kind of big shot rather than a boring gammon. I bet he is ordered about at home like a dog and thinks he can come on here and pretend he is a bigshot. Leon could put the clown on a spit in a second.
He certainly seems to make a beeline for you, Malc, whenever he is on here.
Comments
Next?
Call in the RN!
You, personally, may like our country less.
But you aren't everyone. As someone who voted remain you are, just about, in a minority. Presumably the shame you feel is outweighed by the increased self respect of those who got the result they wanted.
How would you change it ?
Also, even if it is, I presume you can't delineate between a ferry and a cargo ship. So the government would literally have to cut off the UK from all international cargo shipping, as loads are Cypriot / Panamanian registered and staffed by Filipinos, all to ensure a rule on a couple of P&O ferries.
Not that I'm saying this means "Labour are nailed on" - far from it. But you can't blithely say that this is "normal" (and therefore "not bad for Boris")
How many ship sunk last year? (Note: not all on the list are accidental sinkings, or commercial ships)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_2020
How many had you heard of?
International shipping is an absolute scandal. It needs to be sorted: but it won't be, as it is too difficult.
(See also https://www.statista.com/statistics/236250/looses-of-ships-worldwide/ for a longer timespan)
Shame the fuckers burnt so many bridges on the way up…
You’re like a guy who divorced his wife for being ugly who keeps going round her house with a megaphone to shout ‘you’re still ugly, you bitch’
Quite bizarre, and rather sad
Again, can you provide any legal backing for your claims.
Just don't give them your business.
https://www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/seafarers/flags-of-convenience
If I were Starmer, I'd be talking to them. But it's an international issue.
Tragic tossers.
The lack of self-awareness is excruciating.
And I think you're wrong. The industry is cr@p and filled with bad actors - as P&O shows. This happens all over the place.
This is an example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56842506
or this: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/7/6/abandoned-the-seafarers-stuck-onboard-for-two-years
or this: https://www.wsj.com/articles/crews-are-abandoned-on-ships-in-record-numbers-without-pay-food-or-a-way-home-11633699978
[1834, but please don't complicate the issue by pointing this out]
@afneil
Russian official admits almost 10,000 Russian military have died in Ukraine and over 16,000 injured.
Surely a much higher ratio in war zone?
I assume nobody is suggesting the UK acts outside the law
He really is Nigelfarage-sur-mer
But anyone who thinks animus against immigrants and London’s cosmopolitan nature was not a significant feature of Brexit is fooling themselves.
It’s one thing to deny Brexit is not to blame (fair; it seems to be only an indirect cause), it’s another to criticise the company and then just sigh and say life’s a bitch.
How many did he send in? 100k? That is 1 in 5 out of action.
Keep up it Vlad. By April there will be no Russia army left.
remember that in Afghanistan, they lost 15,000 in ten years. They have lost two-thirds of that in less than a month.
Also: it'd be interesting to know their figures for POWs captured by the Ukrainians and deserters; not that they'd release such figures...
(Actually, are these figures just for Russians, or do they include foreign troops such as the Chechens?)
Whereas the Scots, when asked the same question, said, NO, we’d like stay a colony of England, thanks
It must hurt every day
The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda reports that, according to the Russian MoD's figures, the Russian Armed Forces have sustained 9,861 killed in action and 16,153 wounded in action in Ukraine. A shocking figure.
https://kp.ru/online/news/4672522/
So the Ukrainian figures are probably not that far out.
"A former internal affairs minister of #Ukraine
@AvakovArsen
shared the intercepted Russian military summary for March 18: Rus. Army troops killed 12,814. Private company Liga (former Vagner) troops killed 4,451. Total number of service members killed at war in Ukraine: 17,265."
https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1505961677371621379
My presumption from such a response is that he thinks that there is limited options, because even if there was the slightest of chances the government could ban P&O from ports etc, I am pretty sure he would call for it.
https://twitter.com/polijunkie_aus/status/1505560092649099272
Thinks China needs to support Russia. Interesting reasoning whether or not entirely sound.
One striking thing is there is no mention of Europe. Suggests China fears the US but not European countries. Why not? Their ally has just launched the worst conflict in Europe since world war 2. Europe is a far more important trading partner to China than Russia. Time to apply some pressure.
And many of the leaders and donors to encourage.
But these numbers are already so crushingly awful - and an admission that the Ukraine Govt. numbers have been right all along - that they surely must be ballpark.
And then you have to wonder: "Has Putin REALLY authorised their release?" Or is the military telling Russia: enough is enough?
Because they are invertebrates, they assume the rest of us are too.
One key question here- why is the Russian MoD giving these numbers given they will prove a big shock to the public? Justification for a mass scaling up of firepower? Justification for a conscription call? Or is the Russian MoD looking to undermine Putin?
Heard on the radio earlier that the Ukrainian defence minister was in London today, praising our support in glowing terms.
It does look as though the Trilateral Alliance between the UK, Poland and Ukraine has some real substance behind it.
I can't say that I've often felt that I've had cause to say it, but I am proud of the role that Britain, and our government, has played in supporting Ukraine.
Also, bearing in mind that this was started under PM Cameron, and continued following two changes of Prime Minister, and four or five Defence Secretaries - including disgraced security risk Gavin Williamson - then some credit is also due to the permanent civil service who would have provided continuity.