Southend West: CON does 0.3% better than LAB at B&S in 2016 – politicalbetting.com
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The aid budget isn't in the piece. That was my idea. But if we are to return to 0.7% as promised in the budget we need to make sure that it is doing some real good for our planet and cutting off these methane flares is going to do vastly more for the planet than another 5p on plastic bags. We could make a difference instead of another futile gesture. Naive I know but worth a thought.MattW said:
I can't see "aid budget" in the piece (?) How's that involved?DavidL said:Another excellent use for our aid budget: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60203683 (and the somewhat underutilised expertise in Aberdeen).
Yet another Shock ! Horror ! story with no useful context - eg how much of worldwide methane emissions does this relate to?
If we clear half of these up how much does it reduce global methane emissions by?4 -
True but, as you said, there was an option of they could do shockingly badly. I'm not claiming this is a good result for BJ, what I am saying is that a few MPs who are sitting on the fence may see this result and waver about sending in the letter. If the result had been shockingly bad, there was a big incentive to move against him. It wasn't.kle4 said:
It really doesn't. A by election like this is a no win situation - you cannot claim it means anything if you win because all the major parties stood aside. So only if they did shockingly badly could it matter.MrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
They didn't do shockingly badly, so that's something, but basing a perception of what they should do about their leader because of a highly unusual by election with a very strong push of 'it's what sir david would have wanted' would be most unwise - the strength or weakness of the party are unaffected.0 -
Ah, the latest contestant for the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award (aka Comical Ali's most ludicrous defence Award), submits his application.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
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The painting buses thing was to swamp Google and deflect from the Brexit Bus promise and perhaps also Boris buses. Which is actually a special case of what you suggest, so yes!eek said:
It also reflects his approach to things. Throw so many "ideas" out that one may be taken up and change the media's focus away from the thing you don't want them to focus on.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, if you watched the exchange in the House it's easy to infer that Johnson was panicking and it was just the first thing that came into his head at the time. That would be consistent with the notion that this line of attack had been discussed with his advisers at some stage but he had been warned against it. In his panic he ignored the warning.eek said:
I said yesterday what I think happened.Roger said:
Johnson couldn't have chosen a less wise ditch than JS for his last stand. There's a film coming out in March which I know a reasonable amount about having had a small involvement in the making of it. It's the first time ever that I've been asked to sign an NDA which tells you the sensitivity of the subject matter. I would have expected the PM to be better informedMarqueeMark said:
Mirza has really cut through to the fence-sitting MPs, I was told last night.IanB2 said:Indy: Cummings is correct. She [Mirza], like him, has come to the conclusion that Johnson is now beyond help, not up to the job, and it’s in everyone’s interest that she says so publicly. So, in a more circumspect fashion, has Rishi Sunak.
Johnson had a lot to thank the woman he liked to call “Dr Mirza” for. She was his gaslighter-in-chief on race. Yet on the one occasion she asked him to say sorry for something, he would not listen to her, apparently to the point of watching her resign over it. For those who think him loyal to his friends it is an appalling reflection of his selfish, stubborn, nasty personality. He’s really not as cuddly as he makes out, and relies on his own judgement. He must be getting lonely, though.
It's probably been discussed a few times as an attack line but has always been ruled out.
Then Bozo wanted something on Monday that allowed him to stay in place while throwing his staff to the wolves and somehow thought of Jimmy Saville and SKS at the CPS. So he used it without thinking about the complete picture and the fact it doesn't actually match the narrative Bozo's wanted to create.
You can see that the attack line was prepared or approved of by others so it very much looks like Bozo used it as he couldn't think of anything else that allows him to remain in place while he fires everyone else to protect himself.
It is also consistent with his blustering, bullshitting debate style.
See for example Boris painting buses and Peppa pig.2 -
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then0 -
Not everything plays into the dominant narrative. A normal by election might, but a free run all about good old Sir David? Even if they were inclined, and they might not be, not really a moment for locals to kick BorisMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
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Let me copy and paste what I said to Kle:Nigel_Foremain said:
Ah, the latest contestant for the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award (aka Comical Ali's most ludicrous defence Award), submits his application.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
"True but, as you said, there was an option of they could do shockingly badly. I'm not claiming this is a good result for BJ, what I am saying is that a few MPs who are sitting on the fence may see this result and waver about sending in the letter. If the result had been shockingly bad, there was a big incentive to move against him. It wasn't."
This is not about whether it was a good result or not, it's about whether a few MPs will look at the result and think that it might be best not to send in the letter yet.
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That means at least 15,000 who voted Tory the last time didn't bother - I say 'at least' because there may have been Labour and LibDem voters from 2019 willing to support Firth against the extremists and to show respect for Amess. So potentially up to 60% of Tories stayed home.MrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
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I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.
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Surely muscle suit? - Ed...Nigel_Foremain said:
A bit too good looking for Boris Johnson. He would also need to "Supersize me" for about a year and even then still wear a fat suit.Stereodog said:
He actually looks even more like him these days (attempting a picture).Applicant said:Stereodog said:
That influencer/presenter Oobah Butler to play Boris. I'm not sophisticated enough to upload pictures on here but seriously look him up. He'd need some ageing makeup but he could easily be one of Boris's childrenTheScreamingEagles said:
Jason Momoa to play Boris Johnson and Emilia Clarke to play Carrie.Burgessian said:I would imagine that The Fall of Boris will be irresistible to TV drama-makers. But who would play the leads?
Presumably, Benedict Cumberbatch would revive his peerless Dom.
Boris, and Carrie, now there's two roles...
Nailed on.
Good call. I didn't know the name, but I remember the "fake restaurant" thing.
Also, on my Google autocomplete, the top suggestion for "oobah butler" is "oobah butler boris johnson"...
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Excellent point. Are they voting for Mr Sunak or not?Cookie said:
Difficult to know for sure that they are voting for the Conservatives because they support the Boris-led regime or because they are heartened that there are finally enough rumblings of discontent about Boris that an end is in sight.MrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
I think anyone seeking to draw too many conclusions from an uncontested by-election in a safe Tory seat is on a fools errand.0 -
but smoke is clearly starting to spiral up out of the toasterturbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.0 -
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.2 -
A lot of MPs know a little bit about politics, so they realise that a contest between a reasonably credible Conservative candidate in a very right wing area is unlikely to do badly when only faced by a bunch of fruitcakes, muppets and fascists.MrEd said:
True but, as you said, there was an option of they could do shockingly badly. I'm not claiming this is a good result for BJ, what I am saying is that a few MPs who are sitting on the fence may see this result and waver about sending in the letter. If the result had been shockingly bad, there was a big incentive to move against him. It wasn't.kle4 said:
It really doesn't. A by election like this is a no win situation - you cannot claim it means anything if you win because all the major parties stood aside. So only if they did shockingly badly could it matter.MrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
They didn't do shockingly badly, so that's something, but basing a perception of what they should do about their leader because of a highly unusual by election with a very strong push of 'it's what sir david would have wanted' would be most unwise - the strength or weakness of the party are unaffected.0 -
Was that a real thing? I read that, but it sounds too stupid to work. Certainly I dont think it did work as I doubt people struggle to know about the promise.Carnyx said:
The painting buses thing was to swamp Google and deflect from the Brexit Bus promise and perhaps also Boris buses. Which is actually a special case of what you suggest, so yes!eek said:
It also reflects his approach to things. Throw so many "ideas" out that one may be taken up and change the media's focus away from the thing you don't want them to focus on.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, if you watched the exchange in the House it's easy to infer that Johnson was panicking and it was just the first thing that came into his head at the time. That would be consistent with the notion that this line of attack had been discussed with his advisers at some stage but he had been warned against it. In his panic he ignored the warning.eek said:
I said yesterday what I think happened.Roger said:
Johnson couldn't have chosen a less wise ditch than JS for his last stand. There's a film coming out in March which I know a reasonable amount about having had a small involvement in the making of it. It's the first time ever that I've been asked to sign an NDA which tells you the sensitivity of the subject matter. I would have expected the PM to be better informedMarqueeMark said:
Mirza has really cut through to the fence-sitting MPs, I was told last night.IanB2 said:Indy: Cummings is correct. She [Mirza], like him, has come to the conclusion that Johnson is now beyond help, not up to the job, and it’s in everyone’s interest that she says so publicly. So, in a more circumspect fashion, has Rishi Sunak.
Johnson had a lot to thank the woman he liked to call “Dr Mirza” for. She was his gaslighter-in-chief on race. Yet on the one occasion she asked him to say sorry for something, he would not listen to her, apparently to the point of watching her resign over it. For those who think him loyal to his friends it is an appalling reflection of his selfish, stubborn, nasty personality. He’s really not as cuddly as he makes out, and relies on his own judgement. He must be getting lonely, though.
It's probably been discussed a few times as an attack line but has always been ruled out.
Then Bozo wanted something on Monday that allowed him to stay in place while throwing his staff to the wolves and somehow thought of Jimmy Saville and SKS at the CPS. So he used it without thinking about the complete picture and the fact it doesn't actually match the narrative Bozo's wanted to create.
You can see that the attack line was prepared or approved of by others so it very much looks like Bozo used it as he couldn't think of anything else that allows him to remain in place while he fires everyone else to protect himself.
It is also consistent with his blustering, bullshitting debate style.
See for example Boris painting buses and Peppa pig.0 -
Fancy a wager about the next 5 polls?HYUFD said:
What a load of rubbish. Even now under Boris most polls have Labour less than 10% ahead.eek said:
If it gets to a VONC and Bozo wins the Tories are completely and utterly f***ed for generations.HYUFD said:
I still think Boris wins a VONC 55% to 45% or so for noweek said:Reasons why Boris doesn't want to go now No 1 to 60million
Boris wants another 4-6 months to get past Brown and May - and he needs to avoid a VONC otherwise he isn't going to get there.
Every none Tory on this site will be hoping you are right although annoyed about the damage that will be done meanwhile.
Average 10% or above I win
Average below 10%, you do
A tenner to keep it frugal as befits the mood0 -
He'll end up like a ship's biscuit of the Nelson era. Almost inedible. And full of weevils.turbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.1 -
I suspect I didn't explain myself well. This is not about saying the result is good for BJ, it's about that the result may persuade some MPs not to send in a letter. I'd agree you cannot read too much into this by-election.IanB2 said:
That means at least 15,000 who voted Tory the last time didn't bother - I say 'at least' because there may have been Labour and LibDem voters from 2019 willing to support Firth against the extremists and to show respect for Amess. So potentially up to 60% of Tories stayed home.MrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
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You could ask to have a read of the nearly 1,100 spoiled ballot papers?MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
For comparison, there were 170 in the 'uncontested' Batley & Spen
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The one joy in all that horrible, horrible mess, was the horror with which certain people went "no, no, not *those* victims" when May mandated investigating *all* the reported abuse.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
I'm all about the big tent, yet I can't see any mileage in the Tory party trying to win in Edmonton, they need to focus on winning back Enfield Southgate which is a wealthy suburban middle class area. Shifting the focus to places like Edmonton or Tottenham doesn't make any sense at all, the Tories will never win those seats. These are two of the safest Labour seats in the country. Even in an end of days scenario they'll vote Labour.tlg86 said:
The data research firm CACI provided me with profiles of central Ashington and Edmonton Green. In many ways, they look alike. Household income is, if anything, higher in central Ashington, while private tenants in my old neighbourhood spend almost triple their counterparts in the north-east on rent. Overall, the Londoners, my Londoners, make do with half the disposable income of those in Ashington. The one big difference is that residents of Ashington are older and 98% white, whereas Edmonton has families from Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Somalia and south Asia. Whether from the north or the south, economically these people are in the same boat – which makes it vital for the Tories to harp on about their cultural differences. Rich remainers, citizens of nowhere … you know the rest.another_richard said:
I think this was better by Aditya Chakrabortty:NickPalmer said:A creditable effort by Heseltine, now 88 years old, on the challenges of levelling up:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/03/levelling-up-michael-gove-regional-inequalities
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/02/a-tale-of-two-towns-one-in-the-north-one-in-the-south-exposes-the-lie-of-levelling-up
It effectively shows my doubts when 'levelling up' so often means 'become more like London'.
There's another big difference...
Tenure: Edmonton Green | Ashington
Owned: 29.7% | 55.8%
Owned: Owned outright: 10.7% | 27.9%
Owned: Owned with a mortgage or loan: 19.0% | 27.9%
Shared ownership (part owned and part rented): 2.3% | 0.1%
Social rented: 43.1% | 14.5%
Social rented: Rented from council (Local Authority): 23.3% | 2.6%
Social rented: Other: 19.8% | 11.9%
Private rented: 23.0% | 28.6%
Private rented: Private landlord or letting agency: 22.0% | 26.7%
Private rented: Other: 1.0% | 2.0%
Living rent free: 1.9% | 1.0%0 -
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.1 -
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.1 -
Why are UKIP still a thing when we've left?
They're like the Japanese holdouts refusing the surrender in the 1970s lol!0 -
Point of order: Starmer didn't go to Oxford for undergrad, he went to Leeds and did a BCL at Oxford.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then0 -
But that's the point (so to speak) - he's not wielding it quite yet.Dura_Ace said:
Can somebody get it down off that shelf for me?Roger said:
Rishi ..................'Is this a dagger I see before me?'DavidL said:
"By the pricking of my thumbs something wicked this way comes." Shakespear is full of great lines but for me that is right up there. By the end of the play MacBeth has gone well beyond his wife.Roger said:
Carrie has had a reasonably free ride because it isn't polite to call someone 'Lady Macbeth' anymore. However anyone who knows the play will know that it's a toss up who is worse Lady M or Big M himself! I think the Scottish play is an almost perfect match for those two. As for the three witches....take your pickOldKingCole said:
He hasn't sacked all his advisers; Carrie's still there.Chris said:
If that was the strategy with the other three, the way in which it was done couldn't have backfired more disastrously. Surely the press should have been well and truly briefed about what was about to happen before the resignations went in. With Mirza announcing her resignation on a point of principle first, it gave the impression that Johnson's entire staff were walking out in protest at his behaviour. Probably a lot of people without too much interest in politics will still be left with that impression.OldKingCole said:... Has he not done exactly what he said he'd do in the House? He's got rid of the people who were 'badly' advising him ...
But I suppose if you sack all your advisers you're not likely to benefit from the best advice about how to go about it.
However, I agree that it looks awful, but I stick with the thought that he doesn't jump; he has to be pushed. And unless he is, and pushed hard, he'll stay.
And I recommend, in this context, Andrew Murrison's piece in the Guardian.0 -
People seem to be expecting a 24 hour news cycle style toast.turbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.
Politics works slower than that. I don't think the end result is in much doubt.0 -
That was Allison Saunders fwiw.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
I actually that, if Sunak becomes PM, he will get through the looming economic and cost-of-living crisis better than any of the other candidates would, and of course miles better than Boris would. The last thing that would go down well in such difficult time would be the mindless boosterism of Boris, with voters suspecting quite rightly that he doesn't give a toss about it and is just laughing at them. Liz Truss would be a bit better, but would look hapless and lightweight.DavidL said:
I always think that those who think they are being clever by arguing that there is a "right" time to take over are delusional. The right time is always now. Once there you can set the agenda, the mood, the tone. Yes, you will have problems but problems are also opportunities and, let's face it, the bar is pretty low right now. Avoiding calling the LOTO soft on peodophiles is not too difficult a start.rottenborough said:This is nuts. Sunak will be extremely damaged by the looming inflation crisis. He should move now.
Stewart Wood
@StewartWood
If you wanted to be the next Conservative Prime Minister, you would want Boris Johnson to own as much of the mushrooming cost of living crisis as possible. Plus the probable electoral nightmare of May’s local elections. All of which suggests months of zombie government by default
https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1489516577427013634
Sunak, on the other hand, is actually very good at giving serious and empathetic answers to difficult questions on how ordinary people are being affected, explaining clearly what he is doing, not belittling the problems which he can't address, and being very clear on the limits of what can be done. It won't satisfy everyone, obviously, and the government is going to be unpopular whatever it does, but I reckon Sunak is better placed than almost any other potential candidate, except perhaps Jeremy Hunt, to mitigate the damage to the party from the economic travails to come.3 -
It does seem that every week when there is a by-election and Labours performance is nowhere near their national polling position it is put down to local issues where the local labour party is doing some crazy things. Out of 3 by-elections counted last night, 2 of the very disappointing labour performances were put down to mad happenings in the local labour party. I know local politics can be odd but does labour have a particular problem?Foxy said:
I did predict and bet on the over 80% band, though got turnout wrong at over 30%. So up on the contest modestly at the princely sum of £3.50.
The By-election in Evington (Leicester) is interesting, and shows the continuing problems of the Labour Party in the Leicester East Constituency following the Claudia Webbe fiasco. She was an unpopular imposition under Corbyn. It is in this constituency in nearby Humberstone that the city elected a Conservative councilor last year. He hasn't made much impact, turning up at 29% of expected attendances.
Evington is the poshest bit of the constituency, being mostly detached and semi detached housing around the Leicester General Hospital, and the best state schools in the city. It is mixed ethnically, mostly middle class. The sort of place where Sunak might be popular.
To keep perspective though, the LP has 52 of 54 Council seats, held this one, and the rest of the constituency is much more inner city working class of all ethnicities. Leicester East will stay Labour at the GE, unless the local Labour party does something seriously fratricidal.1 -
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.1 -
You might as well look at the Cameroon Egypt result from last night than the Southend bi electionMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
1 -
What was the score?moonshine said:
You might as well look at the Cameroon Egypt result from last night than the Southend bi electionMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
0 -
He still has an Oxford degree, a postgraduate degree in law, even if he went to Leeds for undergrad.MrEd said:
Point of order: Starmer didn't go to Oxford for undergrad, he went to Leeds and did a BCL at Oxford.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
No different to Bill Clinton who went to Georgetown for undergrad but Yale law school for postgrad or Obama who went to Occidental College and Columbia and Harvard law school or indeed Gerald Ford who went to Michigan University and Yale law school.0 -
Nil nil, Egypt through on penalties.MrEd said:
What was the score?moonshine said:
You might as well look at the Cameroon Egypt result from last night than the Southend bi electionMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
Salah vs Mane in the final.0 -
Equally Starmer didn't start at a private school, he started at a state Grammar school that changed while he was there to become a private school.MrEd said:
Point of order: Starmer didn't go to Oxford for undergrad, he went to Leeds and did a BCL at Oxford.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then0 -
Has there even been a by-election before where spoilt ballots came second?4
-
Ahem, Saunders formally instituted it but it was Starmer who very much laid the groundwork for it when he was CPS after the Rochdale case. It merely came into effect on Saunder's watchMaxPB said:
That was Allison Saunders fwiw.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
The Tories are unlikely to win back Enfield Southgate post Brexit for a generation.MaxPB said:
I'm all about the big tent, yet I can't see any mileage in the Tory party trying to win in Edmonton, they need to focus on winning back Enfield Southgate which is a wealthy suburban middle class area. Shifting the focus to places like Edmonton or Tottenham doesn't make any sense at all, the Tories will never win those seats. These are two of the safest Labour seats in the country. Even in an end of days scenario they'll vote Labour.tlg86 said:
The data research firm CACI provided me with profiles of central Ashington and Edmonton Green. In many ways, they look alike. Household income is, if anything, higher in central Ashington, while private tenants in my old neighbourhood spend almost triple their counterparts in the north-east on rent. Overall, the Londoners, my Londoners, make do with half the disposable income of those in Ashington. The one big difference is that residents of Ashington are older and 98% white, whereas Edmonton has families from Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Somalia and south Asia. Whether from the north or the south, economically these people are in the same boat – which makes it vital for the Tories to harp on about their cultural differences. Rich remainers, citizens of nowhere … you know the rest.another_richard said:
I think this was better by Aditya Chakrabortty:NickPalmer said:A creditable effort by Heseltine, now 88 years old, on the challenges of levelling up:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/03/levelling-up-michael-gove-regional-inequalities
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/02/a-tale-of-two-towns-one-in-the-north-one-in-the-south-exposes-the-lie-of-levelling-up
It effectively shows my doubts when 'levelling up' so often means 'become more like London'.
There's another big difference...
Tenure: Edmonton Green | Ashington
Owned: 29.7% | 55.8%
Owned: Owned outright: 10.7% | 27.9%
Owned: Owned with a mortgage or loan: 19.0% | 27.9%
Shared ownership (part owned and part rented): 2.3% | 0.1%
Social rented: 43.1% | 14.5%
Social rented: Rented from council (Local Authority): 23.3% | 2.6%
Social rented: Other: 19.8% | 11.9%
Private rented: 23.0% | 28.6%
Private rented: Private landlord or letting agency: 22.0% | 26.7%
Private rented: Other: 1.0% | 2.0%
Living rent free: 1.9% | 1.0%
I agree on Edmonton and Tottenham, even Cameron did not win those seats, though he did win Enfield Southgate.
0 -
Mmmmm, might be worth watching.Foxy said:
Nil nil, Egypt through on penalties.MrEd said:
What was the score?moonshine said:
You might as well look at the Cameroon Egypt result from last night than the Southend bi electionMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
Salah vs Mane in the final.0 -
Anne Applebaum is, in my view, simply the best journalist writing on geopolitics today. Like one of her predecessors, Robert Fisk, no one will agree with all her points but she is deeply informed, smart, articulate and thought provoking.Nigelb said:This is, I think, a very good article.
The Reason Putin Would Risk War
He is threatening to invade Ukraine because he wants democracy to fail
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/14894259204275404810 -
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
I think people's expectations might need to adjust to reflect the polarised age we're living through. It's like in the US where Biden's victory looked fairly tight by historical standards but was actually as comprehensive as can be expected given how divided the US is. We're not quite there in the UK yet but I wonder if any party will ever achieve the kind of poll lead that HYUFD seems to think is the metric for success.Heathener said:
Fancy a wager about the next 5 polls?HYUFD said:
What a load of rubbish. Even now under Boris most polls have Labour less than 10% ahead.eek said:
If it gets to a VONC and Bozo wins the Tories are completely and utterly f***ed for generations.HYUFD said:
I still think Boris wins a VONC 55% to 45% or so for noweek said:Reasons why Boris doesn't want to go now No 1 to 60million
Boris wants another 4-6 months to get past Brown and May - and he needs to avoid a VONC otherwise he isn't going to get there.
Every none Tory on this site will be hoping you are right although annoyed about the damage that will be done meanwhile.
Average 10% or above I win
Average below 10%, you do
A tenner to keep it frugal as befits the mood0 -
I know, even though his wife is Jewish. Obviously, a principled man who would be a vast improvement when it came to his personal behaviour...MarqueeMark said:
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
That's my memory, but of course other memories are available, potentially. But if you searched for boris + bus you'd get the unfulfilled promises and slogans, and maybe those double jobs in London. After the cardboard buses the first page or two would be the cardboard buses, and who would bother looking further?kle4 said:
Was that a real thing? I read that, but it sounds too stupid to work. Certainly I dont think it did work as I doubt people struggle to know about the promise.Carnyx said:
The painting buses thing was to swamp Google and deflect from the Brexit Bus promise and perhaps also Boris buses. Which is actually a special case of what you suggest, so yes!eek said:
It also reflects his approach to things. Throw so many "ideas" out that one may be taken up and change the media's focus away from the thing you don't want them to focus on.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, if you watched the exchange in the House it's easy to infer that Johnson was panicking and it was just the first thing that came into his head at the time. That would be consistent with the notion that this line of attack had been discussed with his advisers at some stage but he had been warned against it. In his panic he ignored the warning.eek said:
I said yesterday what I think happened.Roger said:
Johnson couldn't have chosen a less wise ditch than JS for his last stand. There's a film coming out in March which I know a reasonable amount about having had a small involvement in the making of it. It's the first time ever that I've been asked to sign an NDA which tells you the sensitivity of the subject matter. I would have expected the PM to be better informedMarqueeMark said:
Mirza has really cut through to the fence-sitting MPs, I was told last night.IanB2 said:Indy: Cummings is correct. She [Mirza], like him, has come to the conclusion that Johnson is now beyond help, not up to the job, and it’s in everyone’s interest that she says so publicly. So, in a more circumspect fashion, has Rishi Sunak.
Johnson had a lot to thank the woman he liked to call “Dr Mirza” for. She was his gaslighter-in-chief on race. Yet on the one occasion she asked him to say sorry for something, he would not listen to her, apparently to the point of watching her resign over it. For those who think him loyal to his friends it is an appalling reflection of his selfish, stubborn, nasty personality. He’s really not as cuddly as he makes out, and relies on his own judgement. He must be getting lonely, though.
It's probably been discussed a few times as an attack line but has always been ruled out.
Then Bozo wanted something on Monday that allowed him to stay in place while throwing his staff to the wolves and somehow thought of Jimmy Saville and SKS at the CPS. So he used it without thinking about the complete picture and the fact it doesn't actually match the narrative Bozo's wanted to create.
You can see that the attack line was prepared or approved of by others so it very much looks like Bozo used it as he couldn't think of anything else that allows him to remain in place while he fires everyone else to protect himself.
It is also consistent with his blustering, bullshitting debate style.
See for example Boris painting buses and Peppa pig.
Alternatively it was just to muddle people's memories on boris + bus - on much the same principle.
It is difficult to see any rational explanation otherwise. Unless he was making it for Wilfred, who was far too young at the time anyway IIRC.0 -
Interested to hear about that new set of problems. Seriously.eek said:
If OO people have to pay their own way, landlords also need to pay their own way and that opens up a whole set of problems.MattW said:
I saw some convincing commentary that feet are being dragged on replacing the larger Green renovation schemes (the smaller one funded by the green levy has been very successful). These have been a series of disasters since 2010.Malmesbury said:
On the green agenda stuff he has been pushing the policies fairly steadily - faster end to ICE, more wind power etcHeathener said:
I don't know how anyone can apply the word consistent to Johnson on anything. He flits and flies at the merest whim.Malmesbury said:
Johnson has been consistently in the Green wing of the Conservative party for a number of years - even before Cameron was leader, IIRCHeathener said:
Definitely a lot of misogyny around but it's also because she's perceived as the one behind his left-wing green policies, amongst a load of other alleged character defects.IanB2 said:
Bizarrely - and shamefully - announcing his divorce is one thing that would actually go down well with a lot of Tory members, judging from some of the comments you see from themChris said:
In a way that's the point I'm making. Probably I should have said he's sacked all his advisers except his wife.OldKingCole said:
He hasn't sacked all his advisers; Carrie's still there.Chris said:
If that was the strategy with the other three, the way in which it was done couldn't have backfired more disastrously. Surely the press should have been well and truly briefed about what was about to happen before the resignations went in. With Mirza announcing her resignation on a point of principle first, it gave the impression that Johnson's entire staff were walking out in protest at his behaviour. Probably a lot of people without too much interest in politics will still be left with that impression.OldKingCole said:... Has he not done exactly what he said he'd do in the House? He's got rid of the people who were 'badly' advising him ...
But I suppose if you sack all your advisers you're not likely to benefit from the best advice about how to go about it.
Johnson has managed to piss off the whole party. Not even Theresa May managed that.
Some of his policies appear green one week and others hard right the next. He's an assortment of populist demagogy and downright lies.
This is a continuation of various previous government policies, but there has been no slackening of the pace on this. If anything an acceleration.
This is because of the Conservatives being cowards about taking the Owner Occupied bull by the horns and making OO people pay their way, and the Treasury not being put back in its toybox sufficiently.
However, on Green issues, landlords are already largely paying their own way.
Statutory requirements for Private Rented Dwellings to meet increasing Energy standards were announced in I think 2012-2013, passed into law in 2015, and a rented dwelling now requires an EPC value of E or better since 2018.
That will be D or better in a couple of years. And will be C or better in 2028 or 2030. Not sure exactly where these dates are, but there was a consultation.
Which represents iirc roughly a halving of energy required in toto.
If a parallel measure had been brought in for owner occupied we would have had 10 years of progress, and a roadmap for the path to improvement from here.
Instead, the Govt ran away from tackling the issue, and are now sitting on their bottom in a puddle, scrabbling around looking for answers.
Remember that newbuild contribute a tiny % to housing emissions, and that older houses contribute the vast majority. And in the UK 65-70% of houses are owner occupied.
2-3 years ago the Private Rental Sector went ahead of the OO in Energy Efficiency Terms.
There are perhaps interesting issues about standards in socially owned lettings, and especially places that enforce their own "codes of practices" (eg Universities), that never seem to get much attention.0 -
The shootout features one of the worst penalties ever taken.MrEd said:
Mmmmm, might be worth watching.Foxy said:
Nil nil, Egypt through on penalties.MrEd said:
What was the score?moonshine said:
You might as well look at the Cameroon Egypt result from last night than the Southend bi electionMrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
Salah vs Mane in the final.
It was that gloriously bad I wish there was an NFT of it.
0 -
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
1 -
And compare Boris Johnson, the beacon of populism, to both of those ? Clearly the son of a postman who pulled himself up by his bootstraps.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
Likewise, Trump ? The son a multi-millionaire.0 -
That echo chamber must be a fun place to be.MrEd said:
I know, even though his wife is Jewish. Obviously, a principled man who would be a vast improvement when it came to his personal behaviour...MarqueeMark said:
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.1 -
The 1k spoiled ballots, dumbass.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
0 -
It's a very good point. We keep hearing that Labour is on course for power and yet we never actually see any results that may provide some vindication. If the hatred for BJ / respect for Starmer was as strong as some believe here, you would have thought it would be showing up at least somewhere when it comes to actual votes.NerysHughes said:
It does seem that every week when there is a by-election and Labours performance is nowhere near their national polling position it is put down to local issues where the local labour party is doing some crazy things. Out of 3 by-elections counted last night, 2 of the very disappointing labour performances were put down to mad happenings in the local labour party. I know local politics can be odd but does labour have a particular problem?Foxy said:
I did predict and bet on the over 80% band, though got turnout wrong at over 30%. So up on the contest modestly at the princely sum of £3.50.
The By-election in Evington (Leicester) is interesting, and shows the continuing problems of the Labour Party in the Leicester East Constituency following the Claudia Webbe fiasco. She was an unpopular imposition under Corbyn. It is in this constituency in nearby Humberstone that the city elected a Conservative councilor last year. He hasn't made much impact, turning up at 29% of expected attendances.
Evington is the poshest bit of the constituency, being mostly detached and semi detached housing around the Leicester General Hospital, and the best state schools in the city. It is mixed ethnically, mostly middle class. The sort of place where Sunak might be popular.
To keep perspective though, the LP has 52 of 54 Council seats, held this one, and the rest of the constituency is much more inner city working class of all ethnicities. Leicester East will stay Labour at the GE, unless the local Labour party does something seriously fratricidal.0 -
I don't think Wilf was even a twinkle in papa's piggy eye at that point.Carnyx said:
That's my memory, but of course other memories are available, potentially. But if you searched for boris + bus you'd get the unfulfilled promises and slogans, and maybe those double jobs in London. After the cardboard buses the first page or two would be the cardboard buses, and who would bother looking further?kle4 said:
Was that a real thing? I read that, but it sounds too stupid to work. Certainly I dont think it did work as I doubt people struggle to know about the promise.Carnyx said:
The painting buses thing was to swamp Google and deflect from the Brexit Bus promise and perhaps also Boris buses. Which is actually a special case of what you suggest, so yes!eek said:
It also reflects his approach to things. Throw so many "ideas" out that one may be taken up and change the media's focus away from the thing you don't want them to focus on.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, if you watched the exchange in the House it's easy to infer that Johnson was panicking and it was just the first thing that came into his head at the time. That would be consistent with the notion that this line of attack had been discussed with his advisers at some stage but he had been warned against it. In his panic he ignored the warning.eek said:
I said yesterday what I think happened.Roger said:
Johnson couldn't have chosen a less wise ditch than JS for his last stand. There's a film coming out in March which I know a reasonable amount about having had a small involvement in the making of it. It's the first time ever that I've been asked to sign an NDA which tells you the sensitivity of the subject matter. I would have expected the PM to be better informedMarqueeMark said:
Mirza has really cut through to the fence-sitting MPs, I was told last night.IanB2 said:Indy: Cummings is correct. She [Mirza], like him, has come to the conclusion that Johnson is now beyond help, not up to the job, and it’s in everyone’s interest that she says so publicly. So, in a more circumspect fashion, has Rishi Sunak.
Johnson had a lot to thank the woman he liked to call “Dr Mirza” for. She was his gaslighter-in-chief on race. Yet on the one occasion she asked him to say sorry for something, he would not listen to her, apparently to the point of watching her resign over it. For those who think him loyal to his friends it is an appalling reflection of his selfish, stubborn, nasty personality. He’s really not as cuddly as he makes out, and relies on his own judgement. He must be getting lonely, though.
It's probably been discussed a few times as an attack line but has always been ruled out.
Then Bozo wanted something on Monday that allowed him to stay in place while throwing his staff to the wolves and somehow thought of Jimmy Saville and SKS at the CPS. So he used it without thinking about the complete picture and the fact it doesn't actually match the narrative Bozo's wanted to create.
You can see that the attack line was prepared or approved of by others so it very much looks like Bozo used it as he couldn't think of anything else that allows him to remain in place while he fires everyone else to protect himself.
It is also consistent with his blustering, bullshitting debate style.
See for example Boris painting buses and Peppa pig.
Alternatively it was just to muddle people's memories on boris + bus - on much the same principle.
It is difficult to see any rational explanation otherwise. Unless he was making it for Wilfred, who was far too young at the time anyway IIRC.0 -
Someone will be right... eventuallyturbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.
1 -
Yes, I think so. A large part is lack of clarity on policy, having abandoned Corbynism it seems.NerysHughes said:
It does seem that every week when there is a by-election and Labours performance is nowhere near their national polling position it is put down to local issues where the local labour party is doing some crazy things. Out of 3 by-elections counted last night, 2 of the very disappointing labour performances were put down to mad happenings in the local labour party. I know local politics can be odd but does labour have a particular problem?Foxy said:
I did predict and bet on the over 80% band, though got turnout wrong at over 30%. So up on the contest modestly at the princely sum of £3.50.
The By-election in Evington (Leicester) is interesting, and shows the continuing problems of the Labour Party in the Leicester East Constituency following the Claudia Webbe fiasco. She was an unpopular imposition under Corbyn. It is in this constituency in nearby Humberstone that the city elected a Conservative councilor last year. He hasn't made much impact, turning up at 29% of expected attendances.
Evington is the poshest bit of the constituency, being mostly detached and semi detached housing around the Leicester General Hospital, and the best state schools in the city. It is mixed ethnically, mostly middle class. The sort of place where Sunak might be popular.
To keep perspective though, the LP has 52 of 54 Council seats, held this one, and the rest of the constituency is much more inner city working class of all ethnicities. Leicester East will stay Labour at the GE, unless the local Labour party does something seriously fratricidal.
Either this is deliberate, to keep powder dry for the campaign, or simply vacuous. I am concerned that it may well be the latter.
There is a widespread feeling in the country that things are heading in the wrong direction, from the right as well as the left. There is though a dearth of real ideological coherence to the various suggestions. I suspect Sunak style deregulated capitalism will emerge as the winner on the right. Thatcher too started with tax rises, notably doubling VAT early on, but also reducing deductions and exemptions.
That will not be popular with either Red Wall voters wanting autarky, nor the centrist dads, nor the hard left, but it is a clear direction.3 -
The two things are orthogonal.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
0 -
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and amazement*0 -
No, it was Allison Saunders, she was very much behind casting people into victim and perpetrator roles even before charging. She removed the "alleged" from the language around alleged victims/accuers and called people accused of crimes "perpetrators" rather than the accused/alleged perpetrators. There was a huge culture change that she oversaw which led to innocent people being locked up due to the CPS withholding information from defence teams that may have damaged the prosecution's case. She was a disaster and happily got sacked. Starmer wasn't to blame for her failures.MrEd said:
Ahem, Saunders formally instituted it but it was Starmer who very much laid the groundwork for it when he was CPS after the Rochdale case. It merely came into effect on Saunder's watchMaxPB said:
That was Allison Saunders fwiw.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.3 -
Significant yes. Enough to persuade MPs to put in their VONC letter? Question mark.Endillion said:
The 1k spoiled ballots, dumbass.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
0 -
I don't actually think there are 54/55 MPs with enough a backbone to actually kick a VONC off.Beibheirli_C said:
Someone will be right... eventuallyturbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.
Which is why I see Bozo continuing in power and the party as a whole being destroyed as inflation kicks off and Bozo shifts from being a PM for all people (because they see hope in what he appears to / could offer) to a PM for absolutely no-one (as over 4 years he's managed to upset absolutely everyone).0 -
National Butterfly Center on Texas border closing indefinitely after attacks from right-wing conspiracy theorists
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/legislature/article/National-Butterfly-Center-closing-indefinitely-16826463.php
...The National Butterfly Center on the Texas border is closing “for the immediate future” after conspiracy-fueled attacks against the center on social media escalated in recent days.
The butterfly sanctuary, part of the North American Butterfly Association, made the announcement Wednesday. The decision came just days after GOP operatives descended on the site, reviving baseless and false conspiracy theories linking the center to sex trafficking...
...The butterfly center has been the target of far-right conspiracy theories for years, after the sanctuary in 2017 sued over the Trump administration’s plans to build a border wall through the 100-acre nature preserve.0 -
Oh dear, I didn't get a point wrong (although it has been known occasionally - well maybe about 1985ish perhaps?). I said Starmer is a smart cookie, which you took exception to because you are so absorbed with thinking that anyone that you disagree with is not effective. He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly. Starmer is very very smart. That comes as a shock to swivel-eyed far right UKIPy/Johnson apologist Tories. Sorry to have to break it to you.MrEd said:
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.0 -
I'm sure there has been an England test innings where Extras came first...Richard_Nabavi said:Has there even been a by-election before where spoilt ballots came second?
2 -
It's a very big one but I must admit I do enjoy reading the far-right views of the Guardian and New Statesman when I get down to my reading.Nigel_Foremain said:
That echo chamber must be a fun place to be.MrEd said:
I know, even though his wife is Jewish. Obviously, a principled man who would be a vast improvement when it came to his personal behaviour...MarqueeMark said:
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
Nigelb said:
The two things are orthogonal.MrEd said:
Let me put it another way: if you are looking at the Southend result, what is the big anti-Boris message that is coming from the result?moonshine said:
There are no tanks in the city, we are on the verge of a glorious victoryMrEd said:On the VONC vote, surely the result last night persuades MPs not to stick the knife in now? Low turnout but 86% of the vote and, regardless of how you look at it, nearly 13,000 people voted for the Conservatives despite all the problems. Agreed, a lot will be postal vote but the point still holds.
Great word!0 -
I seem to recall confident predictions that he wouldn't survive advising the Queen to break the law over prorogation. Many weeks ago now.turbotubbs said:
I have no idea. People have been saying "he's toast" for what seems like ages, but he's still there.DavidL said:FWIW I think that we will reach the 54 (did it just go up) today, that the VONC will be over the next 3-4 days and that Boris will lose. The wheels are coming off and spiraling into chaos. The centre cannot hold.
I have been wrong before, of course.
Of course, eventually one of these predictions will be true, but how to tell the difference ahead of time?0 -
I didn't realise they had colouring in sectionsMrEd said:
It's a very big one but I must admit I do enjoy reading the far-right views of the Guardian and New Statesman when I get down to my reading.Nigel_Foremain said:
That echo chamber must be a fun place to be.MrEd said:
I know, even though his wife is Jewish. Obviously, a principled man who would be a vast improvement when it came to his personal behaviour...MarqueeMark said:
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
One problem with any improvement plans is that they often just don't work. The great project for years was filling cavity walls with insulation without thought as to what might be there that meant it may not be a great idea.MattW said:
Interested to hear about that new set of problems. Seriously.eek said:
If OO people have to pay their own way, landlords also need to pay their own way and that opens up a whole set of problems.MattW said:
I saw some convincing commentary that feet are being dragged on replacing the larger Green renovation schemes (the smaller one funded by the green levy has been very successful). These have been a series of disasters since 2010.Malmesbury said:
On the green agenda stuff he has been pushing the policies fairly steadily - faster end to ICE, more wind power etcHeathener said:
I don't know how anyone can apply the word consistent to Johnson on anything. He flits and flies at the merest whim.Malmesbury said:
Johnson has been consistently in the Green wing of the Conservative party for a number of years - even before Cameron was leader, IIRCHeathener said:
Definitely a lot of misogyny around but it's also because she's perceived as the one behind his left-wing green policies, amongst a load of other alleged character defects.IanB2 said:
Bizarrely - and shamefully - announcing his divorce is one thing that would actually go down well with a lot of Tory members, judging from some of the comments you see from themChris said:
In a way that's the point I'm making. Probably I should have said he's sacked all his advisers except his wife.OldKingCole said:
He hasn't sacked all his advisers; Carrie's still there.Chris said:
If that was the strategy with the other three, the way in which it was done couldn't have backfired more disastrously. Surely the press should have been well and truly briefed about what was about to happen before the resignations went in. With Mirza announcing her resignation on a point of principle first, it gave the impression that Johnson's entire staff were walking out in protest at his behaviour. Probably a lot of people without too much interest in politics will still be left with that impression.OldKingCole said:... Has he not done exactly what he said he'd do in the House? He's got rid of the people who were 'badly' advising him ...
But I suppose if you sack all your advisers you're not likely to benefit from the best advice about how to go about it.
Johnson has managed to piss off the whole party. Not even Theresa May managed that.
Some of his policies appear green one week and others hard right the next. He's an assortment of populist demagogy and downright lies.
This is a continuation of various previous government policies, but there has been no slackening of the pace on this. If anything an acceleration.
This is because of the Conservatives being cowards about taking the Owner Occupied bull by the horns and making OO people pay their way, and the Treasury not being put back in its toybox sufficiently.
However, on Green issues, landlords are already largely paying their own way.
Statutory requirements for Private Rented Dwellings to meet increasing Energy standards were announced in I think 2012-2013, passed into law in 2015, and a rented dwelling now requires an EPC value of E or better since 2018.
That will be D or better in a couple of years. And will be C or better in 2028 or 2030. Not sure exactly where these dates are, but there was a consultation.
Which represents iirc roughly a halving of energy required in toto.
If a parallel measure had been brought in for owner occupied we would have had 10 years of progress, and a roadmap for the path to improvement from here.
Instead, the Govt ran away from tackling the issue, and are now sitting on their bottom in a puddle, scrabbling around looking for answers.
Remember that newbuild contribute a tiny % to housing emissions, and that older houses contribute the vast majority. And in the UK 65-70% of houses are owner occupied.
2-3 years ago the Private Rental Sector went ahead of the OO in Energy Efficiency Terms.
There are perhaps interesting issues about standards in socially owned lettings, and especially places that enforce their own "codes of practices" (eg Universities), that never seem to get much attention.0 -
Specifically, "Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthier than them".Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.1 -
People who go to Oxford for a postgraduate degree are generally older, wiser and far more serious than the jeunesse dorée for whom the institution was originally intended. They must surely emerge with a jaundiced view of undergrads and all they stand for.HYUFD said:
He still has an Oxford degree, a postgraduate degree in law, even if he went to Leeds for undergrad.MrEd said:
Point of order: Starmer didn't go to Oxford for undergrad, he went to Leeds and did a BCL at Oxford.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
No different to Bill Clinton who went to Georgetown for undergrad but Yale law school for postgrad or Obama who went to Occidental College and Columbia and Harvard law school or indeed Gerald Ford who went to Michigan University and Yale law school.0 -
The public are always in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.0 -
Was that Ed Daveys work in coalition years on energy efficiency in new builds for the rental sector?MattW said:
Interested to hear about that new set of problems. Seriously.eek said:
If OO people have to pay their own way, landlords also need to pay their own way and that opens up a whole set of problems.MattW said:
I saw some convincing commentary that feet are being dragged on replacing the larger Green renovation schemes (the smaller one funded by the green levy has been very successful). These have been a series of disasters since 2010.Malmesbury said:
On the green agenda stuff he has been pushing the policies fairly steadily - faster end to ICE, more wind power etcHeathener said:
I don't know how anyone can apply the word consistent to Johnson on anything. He flits and flies at the merest whim.Malmesbury said:
Johnson has been consistently in the Green wing of the Conservative party for a number of years - even before Cameron was leader, IIRCHeathener said:
Definitely a lot of misogyny around but it's also because she's perceived as the one behind his left-wing green policies, amongst a load of other alleged character defects.IanB2 said:
Bizarrely - and shamefully - announcing his divorce is one thing that would actually go down well with a lot of Tory members, judging from some of the comments you see from themChris said:
In a way that's the point I'm making. Probably I should have said he's sacked all his advisers except his wife.OldKingCole said:
He hasn't sacked all his advisers; Carrie's still there.Chris said:
If that was the strategy with the other three, the way in which it was done couldn't have backfired more disastrously. Surely the press should have been well and truly briefed about what was about to happen before the resignations went in. With Mirza announcing her resignation on a point of principle first, it gave the impression that Johnson's entire staff were walking out in protest at his behaviour. Probably a lot of people without too much interest in politics will still be left with that impression.OldKingCole said:... Has he not done exactly what he said he'd do in the House? He's got rid of the people who were 'badly' advising him ...
But I suppose if you sack all your advisers you're not likely to benefit from the best advice about how to go about it.
Johnson has managed to piss off the whole party. Not even Theresa May managed that.
Some of his policies appear green one week and others hard right the next. He's an assortment of populist demagogy and downright lies.
This is a continuation of various previous government policies, but there has been no slackening of the pace on this. If anything an acceleration.
This is because of the Conservatives being cowards about taking the Owner Occupied bull by the horns and making OO people pay their way, and the Treasury not being put back in its toybox sufficiently.
However, on Green issues, landlords are already largely paying their own way.
Statutory requirements for Private Rented Dwellings to meet increasing Energy standards were announced in I think 2012-2013, passed into law in 2015, and a rented dwelling now requires an EPC value of E or better since 2018.
That will be D or better in a couple of years. And will be C or better in 2028 or 2030. Not sure exactly where these dates are, but there was a consultation.
Which represents iirc roughly a halving of energy required in toto.
If a parallel measure had been brought in for owner occupied we would have had 10 years of progress, and a roadmap for the path to improvement from here.
Instead, the Govt ran away from tackling the issue, and are now sitting on their bottom in a puddle, scrabbling around looking for answers.
Remember that newbuild contribute a tiny % to housing emissions, and that older houses contribute the vast majority. And in the UK 65-70% of houses are owner occupied.
2-3 years ago the Private Rental Sector went ahead of the OO in Energy Efficiency Terms.
There are perhaps interesting issues about standards in socially owned lettings, and especially places that enforce their own "codes of practices" (eg Universities), that never seem to get much attention.0 -
Some on the comments on Britain Elects regarding last nights results and Starmer are very similar to the anti Boris stuff on here. Starmer seems particularly hated by those on the left in the Labour Party.Foxy said:
Yes, I think so. A large part is lack of clarity on policy, having abandoned Corbynism it seems.NerysHughes said:
It does seem that every week when there is a by-election and Labours performance is nowhere near their national polling position it is put down to local issues where the local labour party is doing some crazy things. Out of 3 by-elections counted last night, 2 of the very disappointing labour performances were put down to mad happenings in the local labour party. I know local politics can be odd but does labour have a particular problem?Foxy said:
I did predict and bet on the over 80% band, though got turnout wrong at over 30%. So up on the contest modestly at the princely sum of £3.50.
The By-election in Evington (Leicester) is interesting, and shows the continuing problems of the Labour Party in the Leicester East Constituency following the Claudia Webbe fiasco. She was an unpopular imposition under Corbyn. It is in this constituency in nearby Humberstone that the city elected a Conservative councilor last year. He hasn't made much impact, turning up at 29% of expected attendances.
Evington is the poshest bit of the constituency, being mostly detached and semi detached housing around the Leicester General Hospital, and the best state schools in the city. It is mixed ethnically, mostly middle class. The sort of place where Sunak might be popular.
To keep perspective though, the LP has 52 of 54 Council seats, held this one, and the rest of the constituency is much more inner city working class of all ethnicities. Leicester East will stay Labour at the GE, unless the local Labour party does something seriously fratricidal.
Either this is deliberate, to keep powder dry for the campaign, or simply vacuous. I am concerned that it may well be the latter.
There is a widespread feeling in the country that things are heading in the wrong direction, from the right as well as the left. There is though a dearth of real ideological coherence to the various suggestions. I suspect Sunak style deregulated capitalism will emerge as the winner on the right. Thatcher too started with tax rises, notably doubling VAT early on, but also reducing deductions and exemptions.
That will not be popular with either Red Wall voters wanting autarky, nor the centrist dads, nor the hard left, but it is a clear direction.
The Lewes town council result is interesting with Labour gaining the seat. Perhaps Starmer appeals more to the middle class than the normal labour base.0 -
He'll probably beat Spencer Perceval. Unlikely he'll beat Gordon Brown.HYUFD said:
I still think Boris wins a VONC 55% to 45% or so for noweek said:Reasons why Boris doesn't want to go now No 1 to 60million
Boris wants another 4-6 months to get past Brown and May - and he needs to avoid a VONC otherwise he isn't going to get there.
Ah, Boris, you old duffer, it could all have been so different. You were played a hugely difficult hand - take over a party with no majority and with two wings in open rebellion, in different directions, deal with the most contentious constitutional issue of the post-war era, and then thrown off course by the biggest emergency of my lifetime. The first you managed with astonishing success, the second to no less dissatisfaction than anyone else would have achieved*, and the third better than many, with some brave calls along the way.
And then you threw it away on - what? Holding some not-very-good-parties? Evacuating someone's pets from Afghanistan? Owen Paterson? A distasteful jibe at PMQs?
I'm not trying to excuse Boris. I didn't want him in the first place and I certainly don't want him now.
But he dealt with the really difficult issues quite well - certainly better than many. The first few months of his premiership when he took a fractious party without a majority which had recently polled below 10% in a national election to a landslide-ish majority was just astonishing.
He's played an astonishingly difficult hand with a surprising degree of success, and then made some really, really, really stupid and unnecessary unforced errors. Like the spy who finds the Macguffin, defeats three different sets of baddies, makes it home through no-mans land, then gets hilariously drunk on the train back from Dover, picks a fight with a bouncer and leaves the Macguffin on the tube.
*I can sense Remainer piss boiling from here when I write this. Sorry. It's hard to frame in a neutral way. But I stand by it - other solutions may or may not have been better; but any other solution would have pissed off at least as many people.5 -
Starmer was responsible for a policy that wrecked people's lives in a very public way. As far as I am aware, he has never apologised or recognised what he did. That does not sound like a decent person.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, I didn't get a point wrong (although it has been known occasionally - well maybe about 1985ish perhaps?). I said Starmer is a smart cookie, which you took exception to because you are so absorbed with thinking that anyone that you disagree with is not effective. He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly. Starmer is very very smart. That comes as a shock to swivel-eyed far right UKIPy/Johnson apologist Tories. Sorry to have to break it to you.MrEd said:
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
As for the "He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly." that is not a fact, it is your view just as it is my view that he has significant flaws. Just because you say something doesn't make it a fact (although I know that is a common attribute of the pub bore who likes to tell everyone how it is and how right they are).0 -
I'm not sure it was all wasted. Of course prices would be above cost during a pandemic.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.0 -
And wealthy always means those who have more than they do.TOPPING said:
The public are always in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.2 -
After attending the outstanding and world class Leeds University, he then did some postgraduate thing at some place near the Thames.Alphabet_Soup said:
People who go to Oxford for a postgraduate degree are generally older, wiser and far more serious than the jeunesse dorée for whom the institution was originally intended. They must surely emerge with a jaundiced view of undergrads and all they stand for.HYUFD said:
He still has an Oxford degree, a postgraduate degree in law, even if he went to Leeds for undergrad.MrEd said:
Point of order: Starmer didn't go to Oxford for undergrad, he went to Leeds and did a BCL at Oxford.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
No different to Bill Clinton who went to Georgetown for undergrad but Yale law school for postgrad or Obama who went to Occidental College and Columbia and Harvard law school or indeed Gerald Ford who went to Michigan University and Yale law school.
0 -
If you're talking about the CPS stuff, he really wasn't. It's on record that Allison Saunders was the fuck up at CPS.MrEd said:
Starmer was responsible for a policy that wrecked people's lives in a very public way. As far as I am aware, he has never apologised or recognised what he did. That does not sound like a decent person.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, I didn't get a point wrong (although it has been known occasionally - well maybe about 1985ish perhaps?). I said Starmer is a smart cookie, which you took exception to because you are so absorbed with thinking that anyone that you disagree with is not effective. He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly. Starmer is very very smart. That comes as a shock to swivel-eyed far right UKIPy/Johnson apologist Tories. Sorry to have to break it to you.MrEd said:
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
As for the "He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly." that is not a fact, it is your view just as it is my view that he has significant flaws. Just because you say something doesn't make it a fact (although I know that is a common attribute of the pub bore who likes to tell everyone how it is and how right they are).2 -
They do. I think they had you in the other week. Big fat pub bore in their 50s talking loudly about his golfing exploits and telling everyone how he had a chance with the barmaid. I particularly enjoyed colouring in your cheeks a deep shade of pink.Nigel_Foremain said:
I didn't realise they had colouring in sectionsMrEd said:
It's a very big one but I must admit I do enjoy reading the far-right views of the Guardian and New Statesman when I get down to my reading.Nigel_Foremain said:
That echo chamber must be a fun place to be.MrEd said:
I know, even though his wife is Jewish. Obviously, a principled man who would be a vast improvement when it came to his personal behaviour...MarqueeMark said:
And sat on his hands in the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet as anti-semitism ran unchecked through his party. Just so he could get the top job himslef. Yeah, what a guy....MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.0 -
Up against Corbyn, who did not go to Oxford and did not do much outside politics so the poll holds in that both party leaders would be elitist (unlike 2019) and both Sunak and Starmer got 1st class degrees which neither Boris nor Corbyn got.WhisperingOracle said:
And compare Boris Johnson, the beacon of populism, to both of those ? Clearly the son of a postman who pulled himself up by his bootstraps.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
Likewise, Trump ? The son a multi-millionaire.
In the US Trump was rich but went to Pennsylvania not Harvard or Yale and was up against Biden in 2020 (who did not go to an Ivy League college) and Hillary in 2020 who did not go to a private high school0 -
Absolutely. Indeed the very definition of "Fair Taxes".Applicant said:
Specifically, "Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthier than them".Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.
Doing my sums on the new NI surcharge, energy bills, rise in interest rates on my tracker mortgage, I reckon on being about £350 a month worse off in April.
Hopefully get some payrise, but likely to be sub inflationary. The public sector pay round could be one for industrial unrest, and not just in the NHS.0 -
Not sure about a by-election, but there were more than a thousand spoilt ballots in a couple of constituencies in GE2015, though turnout was higher, so a smaller proportion of votes cast.Richard_Nabavi said:Has there even been a by-election before where spoilt ballots came second?
https://www.votenone.org.uk/spoilt-ballot-results-2015.html0 -
(Ignoring innings where there were <10 wickets)MattW said:
I'm sure there has been an England test innings where Extras came first...Richard_Nabavi said:Has there even been a by-election before where spoilt ballots came second?
Here's one. Total 339 all out. 60 Extras.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-west-indies-2003-04-61746/west-indies-vs-england-1st-test-64077/full-scorecard1 -
Without exception.Richard_Tyndall said:
And wealthy always means those who have more than they do.TOPPING said:
The public are always in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.0 -
Starmer wasn't privately educated. Passed 11+ and went to local Grammar School which at some point stopped being a real state school.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then1 -
I think it was the Economist who did a study on this years back. The definition of "Wealthy" as in "those guys who should pay more tax" was surprisingly constantRichard_Tyndall said:
And wealthy always means those who have more than they do.TOPPING said:
The public are always in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.
RichBastards >= X * (family earnings of person surveyed).
I forget the value of X....0 -
@Nigel_Foremain
"...The worst PM probably in history..."
Thank you Nigel for that. I recently suggested that he was the worst PM in my lifetime (i.e. since Atlee) and got jumped on from a great height. Admittedly it was Hyufd but even so I was astonished to find that even in so broad a forum as PB there was anyone prepared to argue that he didn't rank lower than all predecessors since WW2.
But you go further. 'In history', you say? Hmmm. Boris....Lord North.....Lord North...Boris.
It's close, I'll grant.0 -
He really was. Read the Ashcroft biography, Starmer was very much responsible for the CPS adopting the policy.MaxPB said:
If you're talking about the CPS stuff, he really wasn't. It's on record that Allison Saunders was the fuck up at CPS.MrEd said:
Starmer was responsible for a policy that wrecked people's lives in a very public way. As far as I am aware, he has never apologised or recognised what he did. That does not sound like a decent person.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, I didn't get a point wrong (although it has been known occasionally - well maybe about 1985ish perhaps?). I said Starmer is a smart cookie, which you took exception to because you are so absorbed with thinking that anyone that you disagree with is not effective. He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly. Starmer is very very smart. That comes as a shock to swivel-eyed far right UKIPy/Johnson apologist Tories. Sorry to have to break it to you.MrEd said:
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
As for the "He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly." that is not a fact, it is your view just as it is my view that he has significant flaws. Just because you say something doesn't make it a fact (although I know that is a common attribute of the pub bore who likes to tell everyone how it is and how right they are).
It seems like the defenders of Starmer at the CPS are trying to have it both ways. If you bring up Saville, the defence is "he didn't have any responsibility even though he headed the CPS", with the Carl Beech episode, it's "well, he wasn't head of the CPS so he didn't have any responsibility for it even though he very much made the decision it should go ahead". It's either one or the other.1 -
Covid has been the elephant in the room in all this but I’m liable to think he would have been found wanting whatever had happened. However he had a lot of faith put in him and he could have actually delivered a transformative agenda. He had the majority for it. It will be one of the great wasted moments in British politics. Unfortunately the naysayers have been proved right that he is simply temperamentally unsuited for the job. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in 2019, but no more.Cookie said:
He'll probably beat Spencer Perceval. Unlikely he'll beat Gordon Brown.HYUFD said:
I still think Boris wins a VONC 55% to 45% or so for noweek said:Reasons why Boris doesn't want to go now No 1 to 60million
Boris wants another 4-6 months to get past Brown and May - and he needs to avoid a VONC otherwise he isn't going to get there.
Ah, Boris, you old duffer, it could all have been so different. You were played a hugely difficult hand - take over a party with no majority and with two wings in open rebellion, in different directions, deal with the most contentious constitutional issue of the post-war era, and then thrown off course by the biggest emergency of my lifetime. The first you managed with astonishing success, the second to no less dissatisfaction than anyone else would have achieved*, and the third better than many, with some brave calls along the way.
And then you threw it away on - what? Holding some not-very-good-parties? Evacuating someone's pets from Afghanistan? Owen Paterson? A distasteful jibe at PMQs?
I'm not trying to excuse Boris. I didn't want him in the first place and I certainly don't want him now.
But he dealt with the really difficult issues quite well - certainly better than many. The first few months of his premiership when he took a fractious party without a majority which had recently polled below 10% in a national election to a landslide-ish majority was just astonishing.
He's played an astonishingly difficult hand with a surprising degree of success, and then made some really, really, really stupid and unnecessary unforced errors. Like the spy who finds the Macguffin, defeats three different sets of baddies, makes it home through no-mans land, then gets hilariously drunk on the train back from Dover, picks a fight with a bouncer and leaves the Macguffin on the tube.
*I can sense Remainer piss boiling from here when I write this. Sorry. It's hard to frame in a neutral way. But I stand by it - other solutions may or may not have been better; but any other solution would have pissed off at least as many people.0 -
It doesn't matter whether he did or not. This is post-facts politics now.OldKingCole said:
Starmer wasn't privately educated. Passed 11+ and went to local Grammar School which at some point stopped being a real state school.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then3 -
In general as DPP Starmer did a fairly good job aiui. There's a reason the Tories have struggled to go after his record, it's pretty good overall and his successor was absolutely terrible which paints him in an even better light.
If he came out and gave unequivocal support to women's rights campaigners I could vote for Labour with Starmer as leader. It's my last question mark.2 -
Absurd, Boris got Brexit done, won a landslide election win, delivered one of the most successful vaccination programmes in the world and unemployment still half the level Brown's Labour left in 2010.Peter_the_Punter said:@Nigel_Foremain
"...The worst PM probably in history..."
Thank you Nigel for that. I recently suggested that he was the worst PM in my lifetime (i.e. since Atlee) and got jumped on from a great height. Admittedly it was Hyufd but even so I was astonished to find that even in so broad a forum as PB there was anyone prepared to argue that he didn't rank lower than all predecessors since WW2.
But you go further. 'In history', you say? Hmmm. Boris....Lord North.....Lord North...Boris.
It's close, I'll grant.
After Blair and Thatcher in terms of delivery Boris is the most successful PM of the last 50 years0 -
I wasn't aware he was running the Met back then.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
0 -
Andrew Lilico
@andrew_lilico
·
1h
The BoE Governor has asked people not to seek wage rises in response to inflation. Such "2nd round effects" can make inflation more persistent & the cost of cutting it higher. Does the govt intend to bolster the Governor's stance by limiting public sector pay rises this year?
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico0 -
You'd think @HYUFD would be a supporter of an 11+ grammar school boy!OldKingCole said:
Starmer wasn't privately educated. Passed 11+ and went to local Grammar School which at some point stopped being a real state school.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then1 -
1.0001Malmesbury said:
I think it was the Economist who did a study on this years back. The definition of "Wealthy" as in "those guys who should pay more tax" was surprisingly constantRichard_Tyndall said:
And wealthy always means those who have more than they do.TOPPING said:
The public are always in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.Benpointer said:
Public in favour of tax rises for the wealthy.TOPPING said:
Fantastic comment and absolutely.Applicant said:
Who did people expect was going to pay the costs of lockdowns they were demanding?TOPPING said:
Absolutely agree with this. Partygate will be meh for many. Meanwhile, I think the national expectation (whether justified or not) was for the good times to roll/roaring twenties post-pandemic.MISTY said:
The site is, in my view, overpricing Partygate as an issue, and underpricing cost of living the same way.HYUFD said:
No it didn't.Heathener said:
Two years is a long time in politics but I think the Conservatives may have already cooked their goose for 2024. Yesterday felt an awful lot like Black Wednesday. If you look at the polls from 1992 through 1994 when Blair took over, the damage to the Cons had already been done.moonshine said:
Another day breaks. Another day of Tory parliamentary majority wasted. And another day closer to the next election. There’s no refund on time, not that you would know it from the inaction of these gutless Tory MPs.Peter_the_Punter said:
I imagine we will see a slow but steady trickle of letters through until Monday when I would expect some sort of announcement.eek said:
I suspect there is a lag in AM's data that may mean the friendlies are currently higher than they actually are. Were I a Tory MP I would be avoiding people at the weekend as you know what the conversations are going to be like.rkrkrk said:On Alastair Meeks' count, hostile is up to 43... but friendly is up to 100.
Still seems momentum is with Boris Johnson.
Mps already know what their constituents think. It is now surely all about timing and positioning.
But at the moment I do have a begrudging respect for Rishi Sunak and I fear him. He's very capable and competent. I also liked his calm after the storm demeanour yesterday. Undoubtedly PM material but I think it's now or never.
Liz Truss would be my golden ticket.
The Labour leads are still nothing like 1994 and absolutely nothing like the over 20% leads they had once Blair took over.
The Tories have also just won the Southern West by election with an increased voteshare on 2019. If the Tories were heading for a landslide defeat they would not have got 86% of the vote last night, no Labour and LD candidate or not
If Johnson survives Partygate the call will be the storm is over, whereas in fact the storm for Johnson and all the tories will be just beginning.
Public in favour of lockdowns. Public not in favour of tax rises.
*passes out in shock and surprise*
Where did that £8.7bn wasted on PPE go? It's sitting in somebody's bank accounts.
RichBastards >= X * (family earnings of person surveyed).
I forget the value of X....0 -
So still privately educated then, it was a private school before he left it.OldKingCole said:
Starmer wasn't privately educated. Passed 11+ and went to local Grammar School which at some point stopped being a real state school.HYUFD said:
Starmer v Sunak, a privately educated former barrister and head of the CPS with an Oxford degree v a privately and Oxford and Stanford educated ex Goldman Sachs banker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
The most elitist general election ever? Definitely the end of populism then
0 -
Point of information, but wasn't Starmer knighted by Cameron for his work at the DPP?MrEd said:
He really was. Read the Ashcroft biography, Starmer was very much responsible for the CPS adopting the policy.MaxPB said:
If you're talking about the CPS stuff, he really wasn't. It's on record that Allison Saunders was the fuck up at CPS.MrEd said:
Starmer was responsible for a policy that wrecked people's lives in a very public way. As far as I am aware, he has never apologised or recognised what he did. That does not sound like a decent person.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, I didn't get a point wrong (although it has been known occasionally - well maybe about 1985ish perhaps?). I said Starmer is a smart cookie, which you took exception to because you are so absorbed with thinking that anyone that you disagree with is not effective. He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly. Starmer is very very smart. That comes as a shock to swivel-eyed far right UKIPy/Johnson apologist Tories. Sorry to have to break it to you.MrEd said:
Yes, I see you didn't acknowledge you got your point wrong, did you? Never mind.Nigel_Foremain said:
I have no need to defend Starmer on detail. I am not a Labour supporter, and therefore will be able to disagree with him on lots of things. He is very smart though. The fact that you are still an apologist for the worst PM probably in history suggests that you are going to be more and more disappointed that Starmer outmanoeuvres him at every juncture. One of the important things in politics and life in general is not to underestimate your opponents. Smarter Tories are beginning to realise they need someone better than the fat blusterer to outsmart Starmer.MrEd said:
Ahem, if you are going to lob insults, it might be better to get your facts right. Who is disagreeing with the statement that Starmer instituted a policy of believe all victims at the CPS? What people are disagreeing with BJ on is that Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that the latest right wing nutter meme since the previous one backfired spectacularly on Big Clown? Yes he is a very smart cookie. You are too partisan to see it, or you are really not a very smart cookie, or perhaps both.MrEd said:
Yeah, you mean in the way he adopted a policy of "believe all victims" and so we had Carl Beech wreck people's lives? Yup, 'very smart cookie'Nigel_Foremain said:
I am right of centre but I have always rated Starmer. If he becomes PM, he will become the first PM in a very long time to have done a "proper job" outside of politics, and one that he has risen right to the very top in. He is a very smart cookie.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is an all-too-common trait among too many who regarded Corbyn as the messiah. Basically they are willing Starmer to fail, gunning for him at every opportunity and as a consequence just consigning themselves to derision.Heathener said:
Owen must be weeping at how Starmer's star has risenkinabalu said:Quite a muscly Owen Jones piece here imo. His main point is we shouldn't be suckered by the Tory Party into thinking if Boris Johnson goes all is fine.
In the meantime, I am increasingly impressed with how not only Starmer but also the key players on the Labour front bench are stepping up to the mark. The opposition front bench under Starmer was initially a disappointment but since he rejigged it they seem to have got their collective act together.
As for the "He is smart cookie, for you to pretend otherwise is just silly." that is not a fact, it is your view just as it is my view that he has significant flaws. Just because you say something doesn't make it a fact (although I know that is a common attribute of the pub bore who likes to tell everyone how it is and how right they are).
It seems like the defenders of Starmer at the CPS are trying to have it both ways. If you bring up Saville, the defence is "he didn't have any responsibility even though he headed the CPS", with the Carl Beech episode, it's "well, he wasn't head of the CPS so he didn't have any responsibility for it even though he very much made the decision it should go ahead". It's either one or the other.0
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