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The Spectator @spectator · 31s
Our cartoon at noon #cartoonatnoon http://specc.ie/1CiE8D6 pic.twitter.com/TB3jvjP85Y
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UKIP want what is best for UKIP - They are not Tory-Lite (Or heavy)TGOHF said:Ukip giving up on a referendum for the glory in 2020 says Kellner ?
So he wants to subject us to 5 years of Labour just for party reasons - thanks Nige.
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/01/farage-gambles-labour-win/
"Let’s assume that Farage is behaving rationally. Logic suggests why he wants Labour to win. It is that his real ambition is to reshape Britain’s political Right. He wants the Tories to lose, tear themselves apart as the different wings blame each other for defeat, and then split over the best way forward. Farage would be waiting in the wings, offering to join forces with Conservative eurosceptics – so that, before long, he could take them over."0 -
Without Carswell, I think the figures would have been about 34%: 13% Con/UKIP/Pulpstar said:
If Populus have UKIP on a moving average of ~ 13.5% ?, then UKIP are heading for at least 13.5%.Sean_F said:Populus Lab 36%, Con 32%, UKIP 15%, Lib Dem 9%.
A small shift from Con to UKIP, but nothing significant.
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I'm guessing here that a form of Survivor's Guilt plays a huge part. Even the most unlikely treatment options become *necessary* because the parents/spouse/whomever feel that they must exhaust every tiny chance. Otherwise, they'll be haunted by the guilt that they didn't *do enough*.
That's where the rational and the irrational split apart.bondegezou said:
I am all for patients becoming empowered and looking for new solutions themselves. But when facing imminent mortality, parents and patients need a lot of help to make what are very difficult choices. It is very easy to be attracted by the possibility that something out there will save your life or you child's life when doctors say there is nothing more that can be done. But it's rarely true.Pulpstar said:
Key word here - advisingbondegezou said:advising against therapies that may offer hope, but don't offer any realistic probability of actually helping.
The proton treatment may well not work, could well be a waste of £100,000... but the parents can try it if they wish to do so.
THere is an interesting question here - how much does the NHS value the child's life, and how much do the parents. To the parents I would suggest their son's life has an almost infinite monetary worth, and so even if the chances of survival are raised from 0.1% to 0.11% by the proton beam treatment which would value his life at £1Bn - that is a price worth paying for the parents. Clearly the NHS could not afford to value each life at (effectively) £1 Bn as it just doesn't have that much money.
The 0.1 and 0.11% chances I have made up (Perhaps it is 30%/35% ?) but there simply must have to be a value placed on people's lives in the NHS, as heartless as it sounds. It could be the marginal benefit of this treatment is simply not cost effective.0 -
Pity they don't want want what is best for the Uk.Pulpstar said:
UKIP want what is best for UKIP - They are not Tory-Lite (Or heavy)TGOHF said:Ukip giving up on a referendum for the glory in 2020 says Kellner ?
So he wants to subject us to 5 years of Labour just for party reasons - thanks Nige.
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/01/farage-gambles-labour-win/
"Let’s assume that Farage is behaving rationally. Logic suggests why he wants Labour to win. It is that his real ambition is to reshape Britain’s political Right. He wants the Tories to lose, tear themselves apart as the different wings blame each other for defeat, and then split over the best way forward. Farage would be waiting in the wings, offering to join forces with Conservative eurosceptics – so that, before long, he could take them over."0 -
Dear Dear another numpty unionist who is very confused. Maybe in your tiny brain Salmond = Scotland, not in any normal person's brain. Alex Salmond is a citizen of Scotland, Scotland is the country he is a citizen of.Edin_Rokz said:
And the sun shines from down from which one of Salmond's orifices?malcolmg said:
I certainly have a milkman delivering in God's countrypeter_from_putney said:
Wow ..... do you really still have milkmen oop North?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah. From his dog's vet's milkman who delivers to Carringtonpeter_from_putney said:
Incidentally, did TSE's mate's brother first hear about this story from his aunt's cousin's sister-in-law?isam said:
Your mates brother should be doing his job at the airport instead of reading twitter #oldnewsTheScreamingEagles said:My mate whose Brother works at Manchester Airport, has said Falcao is arriving today to sign for United. Loan deal.
I look forward to encountering an intelligent unionist who knows the difference.0 -
Nonsense. Farage and Carswell are looking out for the long-term interest of Britain. Having built up a real movement for change, they're not going to throw it all away for a long-shot of a referendum stacked against our position.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), I agree.
Unlike Farage, I'm a sceptic who wants to leave, not a politician hunting for glory. Farage is putting his party and himself before what was his political raison d'etre. Carswell likewise.0 -
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
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I'll make it a hangman game.Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
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Mr. Socrates, our interests would be best served by leaving the EU as soon as possible.
Earliest date possible (for a vote) is 2017. If UKIP do well in 2015 then the earliest date then becomes 2022 (give or take) and quite possibly later.
Carswell's main concern is the political career of Carswell. Farage, I have no doubt, wants to leave the EU, but I think his own career also means more to him than that.
Better a long shot soon, than a possible referendum at an unspecified date far off in the future in unknown circumstances ahead of which hundreds of billions will have been flung into the scrofulous pit of Brussels.0 -
Activate HammondMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Woolie, he lacks Blair's Messiah complex. I concur entirely that he should've had some serious red meat for his own side, the lack of it is insignificant. He was also wrong to cut Defence.
For all that, he's still the best realistic candidate for the job by a distance.
It's well and good dreaming of Trajan or Aurelian, but we've got the choice between someone worthy of a shrug, and two other chaps worthy of rather more offensive gestures.0 -
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.
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Even if Farage were to disband UKIP (and he'd face immense resistance if he tried) he can't deliver 15% of the electorate to the Conservative Party.
Typically, about 40-45% of current UKIP voters are ex-Conservatives (the current Populus poll has 50%, probably due to Carswell). Many of them would probably vote Conservative in the absence of UKIP, but some wouldn't. The other 55-60% most likely wouldn't vote Conservative.
So, in the absence of UKIP, the Conservatives get a boost of maybe 3-4%.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, WWIII is unlikely, as Putin does not want a massive war, just a localised one that makes him look good (cf Georgia).
Should we abandon a European nation to the predations of an imperialist Russia? Because that's what we're doing.0 -
W?Pulpstar said:
I'll make it a hangman game.Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
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Why would Nigel Farage want to leave the European Union PDQ or at all?
He'd lose that salary, the generous pension, and even more generous allowances.0 -
Even if UKIP collapsed, the Conservatives will not win an outright majority in 2015, which means the 2017 referendum will not happen.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Socrates, our interests would be best served by leaving the EU as soon as possible.
Earliest date possible (for a vote) is 2017. If UKIP do well in 2015 then the earliest date then becomes 2022 (give or take) and quite possibly later.
Carswell's main concern is the political career of Carswell. Farage, I have no doubt, wants to leave the EU, but I think his own career also means more to him than that.
Better a long shot soon, than a possible referendum at an unspecified date far off in the future in unknown circumstances ahead of which hundreds of billions will have been flung into the scrofulous pit of Brussels.
If Carswell was driven by self-interest, he would not have resigned his seat. If Farage was driven by self-interest, he wouldn't have thrown in a career as a well-paid financier to be a minor party politician. I know this is the line conservatives are trying to throw together, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.0 -
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.
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MD , you trying to kid meMorris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the man who brought Christianity to the wider world (Constantine the Great) was made emperor in York, not Glasgow.
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If you didn't do anything that had potential downsides then you'd never take any political actions ever. There's a simple question here: do we want to stand up for the principle of territorial integrity against imperialist powers, or not?Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
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Not at all. I prefer my party a little less split asunder and a little more disciplined.CarlottaVance said:
Don't confuse him with polling evidence! Like the Yessers the Tory right prefer "truth" to "facts"!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Woolie, obvious? Not to centre voters. Cameron's lost the right, at least partly, but is stronger than Miliband in the centre. If the Conservatives ditch him and go right they'll likely lose the centre rather than regain the right.
You move to the centre to attract support, then, as you watch the polling and the vox pop increasingly swing right, you drag the centre voters with you back to the right.
The opposite of what Miliband is trying to do with what remains of the New Lab centrists.
Given everything that has happened lately, given the undercurrent of resentment, the right is exactly where a populist Government will emerge from.0 -
Mr. Socrates, if he had knowledge of strong UKIP polling then resigning becomes less a contest than the precursor to a little Triumph through Clacton. And if Carswell really believed in local democracy he would not allow himself to be thrust upon the locals by central office.
If Farage were driven by really wanting us out pronto he would have spent years building up support to try and take out pro-EU MPs of all parties. Instead he's mostly targeting (9/12, I think) MPs from the most sceptical major party.0 -
Cameron seems bizarrely paralysed. A list of what he wants to get back from Brussels and what he would do to meet his immigration target in the next five year period would win back lots of votes. Yet he's scared to do it.Pulpstar said:
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.0 -
Bear in mind that if Carswell really were to win Clacton by 44%, it probably wouldn't bode well for Labour's chances in somewhere like Grimsby.0
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Interesting market from Paddy Power.
Local authority with the highest 'yes' vote:
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1898230
I know AndyJS said he expected Dundee to have the 2nd highest 'yes' vote on the mainland, I'd be interested in seeing his spreadsheet. Should the Western Isles really be 25/1? I havent done enough (any!) research to spot obvious value but it's the kind of market Paddy can (and does) get very wrong.0 -
Mr. G, of course not! Constantine was made emperor in York. There's a statue of him outside York Minster to commemorate this historic occurrence.0
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People trying to lay 70 about Labour in Clacton #onenation
The only reasonable money is someone trying to back UKIP at 1/50 -
Parents state clear intention to seek alternative, legitimate, treatment for their kid.JosiasJessop said:
Again, I ask what you expected the hospital to do in this situation? And the police?Socrates said:
A sick child has been separated from his parents, those parents have been arrested for seeking treatment elsewhere, and all of this has happened because of an international arrest warrant that didn't respect traditional liberties or need evidence of an actual crime.hucks67 said:I think the case of a very ill childs parents being treated by Police as criminals, will make the UK look really cruel and heartless. If parents have been driven to take a child from an NHS hospital, because they did not feel they were being looked after properly, it could indicate very poor communications by the Doctors concerned. Now the hospital are saying that alternative treatment will be considered, but I wonder whether they have been made to do this, due to what has happened.
This is the crap that Theresa May has opted into. She's truly a useless Home Secretary.
Since when did the NHS get to decide that was against the law?0 -
There's a danger people will read too much into the performance of an incumbent MP in a by-election.Sean_F said:Bear in mind that if Carswell really were to win Clacton by 44%, it probably wouldn't bode well for Labour's chances in somewhere like Grimsby.
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Surely even you arent suggesting lining up US soldiers on the Russian border?Socrates said:
If you didn't do anything that had potential downsides then you'd never take any political actions ever. There's a simple question here: do we want to stand up for the principle of territorial integrity against imperialist powers, or not?Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
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Because he doesn't believe in the former and cannot deliver the latterSocrates said:
Cameron seems bizarrely paralysed. A list of what he wants to get back from Brussels and what he would do to meet his immigration target in the next five year period would win back lots of votes. Yet he's scared to do it.Pulpstar said:
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.0 -
Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
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The respective answers to that question are restoring John Major's opt-out from the social chapter amd hoping the Eurozone economy gets better, neither of which would win back lots of votes.Socrates said:
Cameron seems bizarrely paralysed. A list of what he wants to get back from Brussels and what he would do to meet his immigration target in the next five year period would win back lots of votes. Yet he's scared to do it.Pulpstar said:
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.0 -
Jeremy Brown gets it.. possibly the only politician I have seen to speak eloquently about UKIP despite disagreeing with them
All the tories do is concede the argument but warn on Miliband.... Kippers don't care0 -
There's some new plebgate material out
Plebgate officer sent text saying she could 'topple Tory government'
Text is published in report on Met's investigation into Downing Street incident that ended Andrew Mitchell's cabinet caree
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/plebgate-officer-text-topple-tory-government-met-report0 -
It depends -Socrates said:
If you didn't do anything that had potential downsides then you'd never take any political actions ever. There's a simple question here: do we want to stand up for the principle of territorial integrity against imperialist powers, or not?Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
1) Are the territory takers good guys (Protecting their people) or bad guys (Imperialist aggressors)
2) Are the territory takees good guys (Freedom fighters) or bad guys (Terrorists)
3) Does either side have nukes
4) How much will it cost, can we afford it, can we afford not to do it.
5) Do we need a vital resource from either side (Oil, gas)
6) Does either side have a large ex-pat voting bloc, or influence in the affairs of the 3rd party country.
Many factors to consider...0 -
Yes - it's difficult for everyone, especially the parents, partly because of Survivor Sydrome, as plato says - you feel you have to try anything. I think we do need a State backstop to protect kids in a hypothetical case of bonkers parents neglecting their interests, but deciding when to trigger it is hard, and there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure. I don't think we have enough information to assess this case fairly.bondegezou said:
In many cases -- I don't know about the specifics of this one -- the alternative therapy that isn't available doesn't offer a 0.11% chance compared to a 0.1% chance, or a 35% chance versus a 30% chance. Rather, the standard approach offers a 0.01% chance and the alternative approach offers a 0.01% chance, but with additional side-effects that reduce the individual's quality of life in the final days/weeks/months. Indeed, sometimes the alternative approach actually offers a 0.0095% chance.
I am all for patients becoming empowered and looking for new solutions themselves. But when facing imminent mortality, parents and patients need a lot of help to make what are very difficult choices. It is very easy to be attracted by the possibility that something out there will save your life or you child's life when doctors say there is nothing more that can be done. But it's rarely true.
There is a not very publicised NHS policy (implemented by NICE) on what a life is worth to taxpayers paying for it - around £25,000 for a year of good health (or £12,500 for a life in only moderate health, etc.). One can argue about the figure, but I don't think a serious case can be made that it should be infinite. Clearly families should be able to spend more if they think it justified, even though it's hard for lay people to assess, as you say.
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Trying to be all things to all people on this issue has got Dave's fingers burnt - you either have free movement of people or an immigration target. To have both is a nonsense.Socrates said:
Cameron seems bizarrely paralysed. A list of what he wants to get back from Brussels and what he would do to meet his immigration target in the next five year period would win back lots of votes. Yet he's scared to do it.Pulpstar said:
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.
And whilst we're in the EU we have free movement of people.0 -
Thus establishing the precedent that the Tories wouldn't stand candidates against UKIP for fear of splitting the right-wing vote?eek said:
If I was David I would move the writ immediately and not even bother putting a candidate up. That would make the whole campaign utterly irrelevant..Lennon said:O/T - but do we know if the Tories are planning on moving the writ for Clacton today as had been supposed? By my reckoning, under the new 'extended' campaign period the one bit that appears to have been shortened is moving of the writ to Close of Nominations (being 4pm on Day 3, Day 0 being move of the writ). This makes it Thursday, for a writ moved today which gives them precious little time to find and select a candidate.
(As an aside, it is also problematic for minor parties who may wish to contest the election, but have no base in the seat to crank up into action - if the writ is indeed moved quickly, it will be interesting to see how many minors actually contest it)
Tee-hee!0 -
Why do you think they did?Charles said:
Parents state clear intention to seek alternative, legitimate, treatment for their kid.JosiasJessop said:
Again, I ask what you expected the hospital to do in this situation? And the police?Socrates said:
A sick child has been separated from his parents, those parents have been arrested for seeking treatment elsewhere, and all of this has happened because of an international arrest warrant that didn't respect traditional liberties or need evidence of an actual crime.hucks67 said:I think the case of a very ill childs parents being treated by Police as criminals, will make the UK look really cruel and heartless. If parents have been driven to take a child from an NHS hospital, because they did not feel they were being looked after properly, it could indicate very poor communications by the Doctors concerned. Now the hospital are saying that alternative treatment will be considered, but I wonder whether they have been made to do this, due to what has happened.
This is the crap that Theresa May has opted into. She's truly a useless Home Secretary.
Since when did the NHS get to decide that was against the law?
Remember what we believe happened here: a seriously ill child left hospital for a few hours with his parents. When he did not return and the hospital could not contact the parents, they were faced with two actions:
1) Launch a search for him; initially on the hospital grounds, then later involving the police.
2) Ignore the fact a child is missing, and assume everything is fine.
Are people really saying option 2) is the right one?0 -
Given that the Eurozone economy is looking more and more like Japan in 1995 I think everyone will be waiting a long time for any improvements.edmundintokyo said:
The respective answers to that question are restoring John Major's opt-out from the social chapter amd hoping the Eurozone economy gets better, neither of which would win back lots of votes.-1 -
'State backstop'NickPalmer said:
Yes - it's difficult for everyone, especially the parents, partly because of Survivor Sydrome, as plato says - you feel you have to try anything. I think we do need a State backstop to protect kids in a hypothetical case of bonkers parents neglecting their interests, but deciding when to trigger it is hard, and there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure. I don't think we have enough information to assess this case fairly.bondegezou said:
In many cases -- I don't know about the specifics of this one -- the alternative therapy that isn't available doesn't offer a 0.11% chance compared to a 0.1% chance, or a 35% chance versus a 30% chance. Rather, the standard approach offers a 0.01% chance and the alternative approach offers a 0.01% chance, but with additional side-effects that reduce the individual's quality of life in the final days/weeks/months. Indeed, sometimes the alternative approach actually offers a 0.0095% chance.
I am all for patients becoming empowered and looking for new solutions themselves. But when facing imminent mortality, parents and patients need a lot of help to make what are very difficult choices. It is very easy to be attracted by the possibility that something out there will save your life or you child's life when doctors say there is nothing more that can be done. But it's rarely true.
There is a not very publicised NHS policy (implemented by NICE) on what a life is worth to taxpayers paying for it - around £25,000 for a year of good health (or £12,500 for a life in only moderate health, etc.). One can argue about the figure, but I don't think a serious case can be made that it should be infinite. Clearly families should be able to spend more if they think it justified, even though it's hard for lay people to assess, as you say.
That's called the law isn't it?
Anything else will just be enlarged and abused by lefty Statists to interfere in the lives of citizens. It was a black day when the NHS was conceived.
This child is being brought back so he can die in 'managed decline', it's disgusting.0 -
Just a note to correct my by-election timetable - I was assuming (incorrectly) that the same timetable is top be used for a by-election as for the General Election.
Looking at the Parliamentary briefing paper here: http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06609/byelection-timetables it says that Close of Nominations is 4pm on one of Days 6 to 8 (with moving the writ being Day 0) - as chosen by the Acting Returning Officer. This puts it at Tuesday to Thursday of next week, for a writ moved today.0 -
KeralaTheScreamingEagles said:
You live in Yorkshire? I thought you lived in Scotland.malcolmg said:
I certainly have a milkman delivering in God's countrypeter_from_putney said:
Wow ..... do you really still have milkmen oop North?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah. From his dog's vet's milkman who delivers to Carringtonpeter_from_putney said:
Incidentally, did TSE's mate's brother first hear about this story from his aunt's cousin's sister-in-law?isam said:
Your mates brother should be doing his job at the airport instead of reading twitter #oldnewsTheScreamingEagles said:My mate whose Brother works at Manchester Airport, has said Falcao is arriving today to sign for United. Loan deal.
Everyone knows God's own country is Yorkshire.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=kerala+gods+own+country0 -
Big Sister Alice is watching you.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?
list=PL5gcFbG9ghq5bTYLSEj2SVNQRAyrQc3uX
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LuckyGuy
"People in this thread really need to wake up and consider the utterly ridiculous orwellian un-logic their devotion to the 'mainstream' is making them espouse."
Even Orwell himself might have struggled to get his head round this!0 -
The majority of immigration into this country is still non-EU, and the government has failed there also. To cut non-EU immigration at similar rates to the immigration target, they still need to reduce it by two thirds. What are they going to do to get there?Pulpstar said:
Trying to be all things to all people on this issue has got Dave's fingers burnt - you either have free movement of people or an immigration target. To have both is a nonsense.Socrates said:
Cameron seems bizarrely paralysed. A list of what he wants to get back from Brussels and what he would do to meet his immigration target in the next five year period would win back lots of votes. Yet he's scared to do it.Pulpstar said:
"Clacton" is happening. But thats not good for Dave.NickPalmer said:
Much as expected - reversion to the mean for the Lab/Con balance, and UKIP up a bit after a very successful week.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Peter from Putney - I know you got really depressed by a largish Labour lead before, and really excited by a Tory lead on Friday, but honestly: Nothing. Is. Happening.
What should be worrying Mr Cameron is that the weeks are rolling by and something actually needs to happen if he wants to be PM more than another 8 months.
And whilst we're in the EU we have free movement of people.0 -
Contrast their treatment with the McCanns.Socrates said:
They were publicly advertising on the news that the child was with his parents when they said they were applying for the arrest warrant, so yes.JosiasJessop said:
Did they 'know' the child was in the parents' custody, at least at first? Could they be sure? Did they know that the parents had the child's best interests at heart? Might there have been an accident?Socrates said:@JossiasJessop
I don't believe that the hospital has done anything wrong. It's the police I'm criticising. It was right for the hospital to take their duty of care seriously and alert the police. The police should have then raised the alarm and tried to track down the parents (since they know the kid was in their custody). What is wrong is the issue of an arrest warrant and the subsequent arrest and extradition of his parents. A proper extradition system with adequate checks would have stopped this.
It's a mess, and no-one would want to be in the current position. But breaking it all down step-by-step as it probably happened, then it seems clear that the authorities did the right thing at every stage.
For once.
And right now, we know what the parents were trying to do, and we're still extraditing them. It's incredible.0 -
Ladbrokes cut UKIP to 3/1 in Rotherham, Labour 1/5
3/1 still a bet IMO.. Labour have to be the worst 1/5 shot in living memory
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/rotherham/winning-party0 -
You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.Plato said:
Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
if you can't attack someone's argument attack their motives.TheScreamingEagles said:Why would Nigel Farage want to leave the European Union PDQ or at all?
He'd lose that salary, the generous pension, and even more generous allowances.
0 -
The thing is, Blair explicitly threw out the principle of territorial integrity in his Chicago speech, when he said that humanitarian concerns were more important - and thus the Kosovo intervention within the borders of Serbia.Socrates said:
If you didn't do anything that had potential downsides then you'd never take any political actions ever. There's a simple question here: do we want to stand up for the principle of territorial integrity against imperialist powers, or not?Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
Further, Putin has already established that the West will not intervene when he invades certain former republics of the USSR, when we stood by and watched Russian tanks move around in Georgia.
So there is no absolute principle in play here. The absolute principle is long dead.
If we were to fight for the independence of Ukraine from Russia would we be able to limit it to a non-nuclear war?0 -
"social democratic side" ! ROFL.Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
As Neil says, Ed Miliband needs to appeal to centrists.
Not to committed Rightwing anti-Labour types.What you gonna do, scratch your X next to the Tories in the ballot paper even more furiously?
In fact, it's probably good news for his chances of attracting centrists that someone like you is becoming even more anti-Labour.0 -
LOL, they are bad enough with crap Ed without Tories wishing they had the even crappier Murphy, who is currently hiding behind his sofa crying.fitalass said:You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
He doesn't need centrists, there are all sorts of weirdos that will flock to the blind eye brigade.Hugh said:
"social democratic side" ! ROFL.Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
As Neil says, Ed Miliband needs to appeal to centrists.
Not to committed Rightwing anti-Labour types.What you gonna do, scratch your X next to the Tories in the ballot paper even more furiously?
In fact, it's probably good news for his chances of attracting centrists that someone like you is becoming even more anti-Labour.
A coalition of the grotesque.0 -
I wonder whether the Police will be seizing disturbing material from Cliff - His 2015 Calendar?
0 -
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.0 -
I would say 2010 Lib Dems can be described, broadly, as Centrist.dyedwoolie said:
He doesn't need centrists, there are all sorts of weirdos that will flock to the blind eye brigade.Hugh said:
"social democratic side" ! ROFL.Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
As Neil says, Ed Miliband needs to appeal to centrists.
Not to committed Rightwing anti-Labour types.What you gonna do, scratch your X next to the Tories in the ballot paper even more furiously?
In fact, it's probably good news for his chances of attracting centrists that someone like you is becoming even more anti-Labour.
A coalition of the grotesque.
Fortunately for Labour, they also rate Ed Miliband pretty highly.0 -
A collection of his letters to God and the baby JesusGIN1138 said:I wonder whether the Police will be seizing more disturbing material from Cliff - His 2015 Calendar?
His nativity set with him as all the characters0 -
Because the £350m the Arts Council costs will make the squar root of bugger all different (and it's already been cut by c. 20%). To impact a £100bn deficit we need to some very big decisions about resource allocation.HurstLlama said:
" what happens when the next downturn comes ?"Alanbrooke said:
I'd say the more concerning bit is if this is approaching the peak of the cycle ( we're now 6 years from the downturn ) and we're STILL borrowing £100bn ish, what happens when the next downturn comes ?rcs1000 said:
PMIs this morning are pretty weak (except in Ireland and Greece) across the board. There's no doubt that concerns about Ukraine (further sanctions, possibly worse) are weighing on activity everywhere in Europe.peter_from_putney said:The Markit U.K. manufacturing purchasing managers’ index fell to 52.5 last month from a downwardly revised 54.8 in July. It was the lowest reading since June 2013. Analysts had expected the index to tick up to 55.0.
Oh dear, that's pretty bad news!
Maybe 2015 is another elction worth losing.
We are fecked, old son. But then when you have the likes of Mr. Charles arguing on here that we should continue to borrow money to fund the Arts Council there is little we can hope to do about it.
Overseas aid is an example. There is a clear value in some aid, but increasing spending to his an arbitrary target at a time like this seems odd. I'm sure you could easily save £3bn+ without makng a real diffence in terms of impact.
However, to cut £100bn you need to look at health, welfare (including tax credits) and pensions.0 -
Churchill would have heartily approved - with the tactics at least. Towards the end of WW1 and in the interwar period he came up with the clever idea of painting over the roundels on British aircraft when using them to bomb native rebels so they would not know who was bombing them. Given that the British were the only people within 500 miles with aircraft I am not sure it was the brightest idea he ever had.Socrates said:
The West seems to have adopted a new doctrine of allowing countries to invade their neighbours for territorial gain so long as they don't put their troops in marked uniforms. Churchill would be rolling over in his grave.Morris_Dancer said:Leaving titillation aside, Ukraine forces have retreated from the Russians. Seems Luhansk Airport is now in Russian hands:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29009516
[I don't see the point of pretending it's 'separatists' doing the fighting. It's clearly Russian soldiers and tanks making the difference. The EU continues to flop about impotently, and Obama's only brave decision in the last few years was to wear a rather questionable jacket].0 -
It's not just that; it's also completely hyppocritical. What about the territorial integrity of Syria, of Iraq? The US endgame there is balkanisation, and the techniques used to acheive it are exactly the same.OblitusSumMe said:
The thing is, Blair explicitly threw out the principle of territorial integrity in his Chicago speech, when he said that humanitarian concerns were more important - and thus the Kosovo intervention within the borders of Serbia.Socrates said:
If you didn't do anything that had potential downsides then you'd never take any political actions ever. There's a simple question here: do we want to stand up for the principle of territorial integrity against imperialist powers, or not?Neil said:
Can you think of any potential downsides to this course of action?Morris_Dancer said:the US should've sent in soldiers to man the Ukraine border. Would've stopped the Russians getting in without having the US do any fighting.
Further, Putin has already established that the West will not intervene when he invades certain former republics of the USSR, when we stood by and watched Russian tanks move around in Georgia.
So there is no absolute principle in play here. The absolute principle is long dead.
If we were to fight for the independence of Ukraine from Russia would we be able to limit it to a non-nuclear war?0 -
The point is, this is not a problem for Labour.Plato said:Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.
They neither want nor need the votes of people out there on the Right like yourself.0 -
Exactly. Jim Murphy is a bit skeletal/lizard-like for my taste - but he's a million times better than EdM. I pay attention when he talks. I zone out for EdM.fitalass said:
You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
Coalition of the grotesque, Q.E.DHugh said:
I would say 2010 Lib Dems can be described, broadly, as Centrist.dyedwoolie said:
He doesn't need centrists, there are all sorts of weirdos that will flock to the blind eye brigade.Hugh said:
"social democratic side" ! ROFL.Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
As Neil says, Ed Miliband needs to appeal to centrists.
Not to committed Rightwing anti-Labour types.What you gonna do, scratch your X next to the Tories in the ballot paper even more furiously?
In fact, it's probably good news for his chances of attracting centrists that someone like you is becoming even more anti-Labour.
A coalition of the grotesque.
Fortunately for Labour, they also rate Ed Miliband pretty highly.
0 -
Labour doesnt have a Plato problem. There are millions of voters they need to win over before they start working on you. That you think you are a demographic that they should be worrying about says more about you.Plato said:Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.
0 -
Because you Kippers never do that about Cameron or Pro-Europeans.Luckyguy1983 said:
if you can't attack someone's argument attack their motives.TheScreamingEagles said:Why would Nigel Farage want to leave the European Union PDQ or at all?
He'd lose that salary, the generous pension, and even more generous allowances.
I've got bored of attacking his arguments, and plus no-one rebuts them.0 -
Murphy would spend all his time as PM looking for Adam/He-ManPlato said:Exactly. Jim Murphy is a bit skeletal/lizard-like for my taste - but he's a million times better than EdM. I pay attention when he talks. I zone out for EdM.
fitalass said:You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
Well that's rather narcissistic of her. What a numpty. She's watched too many James Bond baddies.
In her disciplinary hearing Weatherley explained that she had known the recipient of her text for 20 years and the message was office banter. But a month later, on 21 October 2012, a text message was sent from her phone number to a neighbour called Nick. It read: "Not today but I'm at the front gates tomorrow so I still have time to bring the government down thanks for no graffiti."TheScreamingEagles said:There's some new plebgate material out
Plebgate officer sent text saying she could 'topple Tory government'
Text is published in report on Met's investigation into Downing Street incident that ended Andrew Mitchell's cabinet caree
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/plebgate-officer-text-topple-tory-government-met-report0 -
Would never happen here on politicalbetting.com, of course.NickPalmer said:...there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure....
0 -
Antifrank delurked to post about the North Britain plebiscite.Richard_Nabavi said:
Would never happen here on politicalbetting.com, of course.NickPalmer said:...there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure....
What do you think of his strategy?
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/scotland-pre-referendum-special.html0 -
Rory Smith @RorySmithTimes 6s
Can't work out if Man Utd's summer catchphrase is "all fur coat and no knickers" or "business at the front, party at the back."0 -
I see you are as sharp as ever........LOLPlato said:Exactly. Jim Murphy is a bit skeletal/lizard-like for my taste - but he's a million times better than EdM. I pay attention when he talks. I zone out for EdM.
fitalass said:You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
Ed Miliband is going after ex-Lib Dems, Tony Blair went after ex-Conservatives. Given the national mood for change 1993 -> 1997 and the collapse in Lib Dem support post 2010 both seem sound enough strategies.
If Labour wins it will be a fair bit more modest than 1997 but a win will be a win...
0 -
Unbelievable! Your dismissing a female voter, and one who voted three times for Labour in the recent past. Plato, and many other voters like her who switched from Labour at the last GE are exactly the demographic that the Labour party needs to win back if they are aiming to return to power any time soon.Neil said:
Labour doesnt have a Plato problem. There are millions of voters they need to win over before they start working on you. That you think you are a demographic that they should be worrying about says more about you.Plato said:Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.0 -
Not if he loses the popular vote.Pulpstar said:Ed Miliband is going after ex-Lib Dems, Tony Blair went after ex-Conservatives. Given the national mood for change 1993 -> 1997 and the collapse in Lib Dem support post 2010 both seem sound enough strategies.
If Labour wins it will be a fair bit more modest than 1997 but a win will be a win...0 -
Dear Hugh.
I assume you are a sock-puppet for another poster. And still as tedious.
I don't read yours - save yourself the pixels. These are the only ones I'm spending on you.Hugh said:
The point is, this is not a problem for Labour.Plato said:Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.
They neither want nor need the votes of people out there on the Right like yourself.0 -
I loved He-Man!dyedwoolie said:
Murphy would spend all his time as PM looking for Adam/He-ManPlato said:Exactly. Jim Murphy is a bit skeletal/lizard-like for my taste - but he's a million times better than EdM. I pay attention when he talks. I zone out for EdM.
fitalass said:You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
" NEARLY 30 men have been arrested as police in Keighley investigate claims of child sexual exploitation by an alleged grooming gang. - It is one of three major investigations West Yorkshire Police is carrying out into alleged multiple offences of child sexual exploitation, the others being in Leeds and Calderdale."SeanT said:It begins? The post-Rotherham clampdown promised by the Mail? http://t.co/KLxX2A4585
Of course we must wait to hear the background of the suspects....
So that's Bradford, Leeds, Calderdale and Rotherham on the police hit list so far - the mind boggles as to how widespread these 'grooming gangs' are - it could be every city north of the M4. A frighten thought..0 -
I've only seen that used by a character in Supernatural - with the most appalling Chris Waddle haircut. Where does it come from?TheScreamingEagles said:
"business at the front, party at the back."
0 -
Disraeli, McDonald, Churchill and Wilson all had the largest party in terms of seats despite losing the popular vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not if he loses the popular vote.Pulpstar said:Ed Miliband is going after ex-Lib Dems, Tony Blair went after ex-Conservatives. Given the national mood for change 1993 -> 1997 and the collapse in Lib Dem support post 2010 both seem sound enough strategies.
If Labour wins it will be a fair bit more modest than 1997 but a win will be a win...
I do wonder (If it happens) if the media will treat it as a 'new' phenomenon though.
0 -
How's your chamberpot? What will you do after the IndyRef? And lose?
I love you too!malcolmg said:
I see you are as sharp as ever........LOLPlato said:Exactly. Jim Murphy is a bit skeletal/lizard-like for my taste - but he's a million times better than EdM. I pay attention when he talks. I zone out for EdM.
fitalass said:You only have to look at the passionate way that Jim Murphy took to the streets in Scotland to campaign for a No vote to see just how badly wrong the Labour party got it by picking Ed Miliband as their Leader.
Plato said:Yes, however EdM and their lack of policies has just reinforced my view. At no time has Labour appealed to my social democratic side.
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.Neil said:
But you were a self-described "anti-Labour" voter before Ed M became leader so you cant blame him or his policy platform for your not wanting to vote Labour.Plato said:EdM as PM? No way. Their policies? Are there any?
0 -
I've always used it to describe mullets, comes from a film whose name escapes me.Plato said:
I've only seen that used by a character in Supernatural - with the most appalling Chris Waddle haircut. Where does it come from?TheScreamingEagles said:
"business at the front, party at the back."0 -
The Scotsman - Jim Murphy restarts 100 streets in 100 days tour0
-
As Tories bang on about Europe,will/can Dave reveal his shopping list for renegotiation?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/09/cameron-does-not-have-as-much-time-as-hed-like-on-european-reform/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=cameron-does-not-have-as-much-time-as-hed-like-on-european-reform&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_med
0 -
How is that Charisma of Imperfection theme going Mr Miliband.
http://www.redonline.co.uk/red-women/interviews/ed-miliband-pictures
It is linked on his twitter feed.0 -
"Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency."Plato said:Are you being deliberately obtuse?
My entire point is that Labour are saying nothing that appeals to my social democratic side. I voted for Labour 3x. Whilst I won't for them again for many decades, my point is that they're not even touching my floating voter tendency.
One can fancy a man, but don't want to marry him. I don't fancy Labour one iota. That's their problem.Neil said:
You misunderstand - Labour need to appeal to floating voters, not anti-Labour types.Plato said:
That's where they're failing on an epic scale. The wrong leader and nothing to say that even touches me.
When I was single, I didn't really look for possible partners who would take decades to woo. Life, sadly, is too short.0 -
Yes, I saw it yesterday.TheScreamingEagles said:
Antifrank delurked to post about the North Britain plebiscite.Richard_Nabavi said:
Would never happen here on politicalbetting.com, of course.NickPalmer said:...there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure....
What do you think of his strategy?
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/scotland-pre-referendum-special.html
Very smart, as one would expect from antifrank.0 -
IIRC @Andy_JS posted a C4 tweet about the towns which showed a similar pattern of criminal behaviour to Rotherham. There were about a dozen named. Horrific.
I can't watch US news right now. What they think of this appalling scandal is just too much. And Lefties over here try to minimise it, whilst wailing over a single black kid shot by white deputies.SimonStClare said:
" NEARLY 30 men have been arrested as police in Keighley investigate claims of child sexual exploitation by an alleged grooming gang. - It is one of three major investigations West Yorkshire Police is carrying out into alleged multiple offences of child sexual exploitation, the others being in Leeds and Calderdale."SeanT said:It begins? The post-Rotherham clampdown promised by the Mail? http://t.co/KLxX2A4585
Of course we must wait to hear the background of the suspects....
So that's Bradford, Leeds, Calderdale and Rotherham on the police hit list so far - the mind boggles as to how widespread these 'grooming gangs' are - it could be every city north of the M4. A frighten thought..0 -
Depends on the followingPulpstar said:
Disraeli, McDonald, Churchill and Wilson all had the largest party in terms of seats despite losing the popular vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not if he loses the popular vote.Pulpstar said:Ed Miliband is going after ex-Lib Dems, Tony Blair went after ex-Conservatives. Given the national mood for change 1993 -> 1997 and the collapse in Lib Dem support post 2010 both seem sound enough strategies.
If Labour wins it will be a fair bit more modest than 1997 but a win will be a win...
I do wonder (If it happens) if the media will treat it as a 'new' phenomenon though.
1) How the big the Tory lead is
and more crucially
2) If UKIP get a lot of votes and very few seats0 -
@SimonStClare
" it could be every city north of the M4. A frighten thought.. "
It could be every city south of the M4 as well, in fact, it could even be a worldwide problem.
Best to turn a blind eye to that though.0 -
Yeah, that's what I thought.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, I saw it yesterday.TheScreamingEagles said:
Antifrank delurked to post about the North Britain plebiscite.Richard_Nabavi said:
Would never happen here on politicalbetting.com, of course.NickPalmer said:...there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure....
What do you think of his strategy?
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/scotland-pre-referendum-special.html
Very smart, as one would expect from antifrank.0 -
Many thanks for putting that up - most interesting. And pretty sensible.TheScreamingEagles said:
Antifrank delurked to post about the North Britain plebiscite.Richard_Nabavi said:
Would never happen here on politicalbetting.com, of course.NickPalmer said:...there are too many armchair pundits on the internet feeling that they know for sure....
What do you think of his strategy?
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/scotland-pre-referendum-special.html
Would be interested to see what amtifrank has to say about the No contingency. [edited] Okay, he's only mentioning it briefly, but he isn't necessarily wrong on being unsure what happens after a No. There is a case for suggesting that he underrates the SNP's chances after a No, simply because Labour and the LDs' fronting for the Tories in indyref (and, for LDs, in the coalition) is upsetting a lot of their voters.
It's also possible that Labour splits even after a No because of the stresses of indyref, and/or the Scottish Socialists challenge for the left vote, especially after what the Radical Independence folk have been doing to encourage voter registration. This would seem to damage Labour a lot more than the SNP n the Labour heartlands, though the effects could be subtler in other constituencies.0 -
Yup, but when you need to cut expenditure first you cut the "nice to haves", the optional extras.Charles said:
Because the £350m the Arts Council costs will make the squar root of bugger all different (and it's already been cut by c. 20%). To impact a £100bn deficit we need to some very big decisions about resource allocation.HurstLlama said:
" what happens when the next downturn comes ?"Alanbrooke said:
I'd say the more concerning bit is if this is approaching the peak of the cycle ( we're now 6 years from the downturn ) and we're STILL borrowing £100bn ish, what happens when the next downturn comes ?rcs1000 said:
PMIs this morning are pretty weak (except in Ireland and Greece) across the board. There's no doubt that concerns about Ukraine (further sanctions, possibly worse) are weighing on activity everywhere in Europe.peter_from_putney said:The Markit U.K. manufacturing purchasing managers’ index fell to 52.5 last month from a downwardly revised 54.8 in July. It was the lowest reading since June 2013. Analysts had expected the index to tick up to 55.0.
Oh dear, that's pretty bad news!
Maybe 2015 is another elction worth losing.
We are fecked, old son. But then when you have the likes of Mr. Charles arguing on here that we should continue to borrow money to fund the Arts Council there is little we can hope to do about it.
Overseas aid is an example. There is a clear value in some aid, but increasing spending to his an arbitrary target at a time like this seems odd. I'm sure you could easily save £3bn+ without makng a real diffence in terms of impact.
However, to cut £100bn you need to look at health, welfare (including tax credits) and pensions.
Chopping arts funding would clearly save a tiny fraction of what is needed, but unless you do that then you can't reasonably go after the big sums (health, welfare and pensions). Increasing spend on overseas aid to meet an arbitrary target is clearly a total nonsense but it does show where Cameron's heart is.
Cameron, like Blair in 1997, has missed a massive opportunity and for the same reasons (cowardice combined with personal ambition). I suspect he will be out on his ear in 8 months time and deservedly so. Of course, the down-side to that is we are going to get Miliband who will be even worse.
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Stand by for a new thread with lots of multi-coloured fizzing bar charts, etc.TheScreamingEagles said:Populus
Con 32 (-3) Lab 36 (+2) LD 9 (+1) UKIP 15 (+2)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_01-09-2014_BPC.pdf0 -
You accuse others of turning ‘a blind eye’ when all you have done on PB is equate the abuse of 1400 girls with Victorian Britain and spread the blame far and wide as you possibly can.Smarmeron said:@SimonStClare
" it could be every city north of the M4. A frighten thought.. "
It could be every city south of the M4 as well, in fact, it could even be a worldwide problem.
Best to turn a blind eye to that though.
Arf, you really are the most appalling hypocrite.0 -
The train station is in Terminal 1. Presumably you flew with BA and landed in Terminal 2? As well as the bus there is a monorail connection between the two terminals. I hate Frankfurt Airport with a passion but it's still better than the city of Frankfurt which is probably the most boring place in Europe.SeanT said:So much for German efficiency. At Frankfurt airport you have to queue outside to get a bus to the train station. Like Luton.
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Fantastic to see this Muslim youth charity in Rotherham fighting for justice:
http://news.sky.com/story/1327001/muslim-youth-we-want-justice-for-the-14000
