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Were you up for Boris Johnson? – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Is there any Delta left lurking at the bottom, or has The Mighty Omicron knocked it out?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    In historical dramas we readily accept actors having different hair colour, accents, languages and physical proportions than the figures they are representing, but we still have a problem with different skin colours. That’s, to use a phrase many on here hate, white privilege.
    I have absolutely zero point zero zero problem with black people playing white people, or vice versa - except in cases where the skin colour is crucial to the story - a white man playing Martin Luther King, say, would be jarring and silly. Ditto trans and gays and the rest. Let everyone play everyone. The Woke idea you can only act within your gender, race silo is profoundly corrosive

    Moreover, as an aside, there WERE quite a few black people in 18th century aristo Russia. Not as many as implied in The Great but certainly some. The blue-blooded writer Alexander Pushkin was inordinately proud of his part-African heritage

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/dec/19/pushkins-pride-how-the-russian-literary-giant-paid-tribute-to-his-african-ancestry
    You say you have no problem with (eg) a black actor playing a white man (in a fictional drama) if the whiteness of the man in the drama isn't crucial to the story. But surely if a black actor is used the character is now *not* a white man (in this fictional drama) so the premise on which your test is based is rendered null before you can apply it?
    Interesting proposal by Dave Baddiel that only Jewish actors should play Jewish parts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

    We live in interesting times: a man can choose to be a woman and go to a women's prison and sexually assault the inmates, but a white person can't play another white person in a sitcom if he doesn't share that fictional character's religion.
    He must have missed the bit where Ben Kingsley played Yitzhak Stern in Schindler's List.
    He explicitly mentions it in his book, describing it as a great performance (and noting Kingsleys performance in Gandhi is now regarded by many as problematic). And the book is all about how if X is not ok because it is racist, it should also not be ok when it applies to jews as well. So if it is a problem for non-minority actors to portray the experience of a minority, as many believe, that should apply in such a situation.

    I think he's right about the double standard, but as I've noted before the whole 'actor must embody the character' trend has been taken way too far. Sometimes due to conflation with issues of lack of bredth of roles for some minorities (eg asian americans). So such an action of 'Only x to play x' is not the right response at all, but it is the logical position for a lot of people.
    Not sure there. Othello was supposed to be black and as far as I am aware was always played by a black person (except Olivier I think). If you take away the visual clues, (which can't really be ignored), then I would have thought most actors can play the part of most people. I'm thinking Matt Damon as Liberaci's boyfriend, Michael Douglas as Liberaci, Keeley Hawes and Rachel Stirling in Tipping the velvet, Danield Day Lewis in My left foot.
    As Leon noted earlier there are obviously roles where it would be distracting at the least to not cast for certain characteristics. Sylvester Stallone as Nelson Mandela would be a bold choice, but hardly a good one. But people apply it to things like a non gay actor playing the role of a gay person, which has no visual cues. And a lot of the time it won't make a difference - the alternative doesn't solve issues of representation in the profession, and there's no getting round that the idea only x can properly portray x goes against the whole point of acting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    You can still get all the classic stuff from the golden age of unwoke on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJswJ2h8N0
    Uploaded unchallenged by a guy called Matt Spanner, as opposed to being monetised by the official BBC ITV account. A great example of what’s wrong with UK TV companies in their approach to the internet.
    Would 'On The Buses' have much value though? I'd have thought all you could monetize is the threat - "Pay us now or we'll put repeats out!" - and that's probably not legal.
    It's the cinematic equivalent of a rickets case in a big tank of formalin in the museum of the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh.

    https://museum.rcsed.ac.uk/the-collection/key-collections/key-object-page?objID=1190&page=1

    Use for training new folk in the horrors of the past of their profession.
    I think I'd choose 30 mins looking at that actually!
    It's actually a fascinating museum (group of museums really) as well as being one of the great professional centres of medicine. Had a very pleasant conference there not too long before you know what.
    At the risk of sounding weird I quite like skeletons. They don't spook me at all. In general, I mean, obviously if they are the result of something grisly that's different.
    An excuse to copy one of my favourite film scenes:

    https://youtu.be/zGfG7kOX1-U
    He was great, he really was.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880

    Is there any Delta left lurking at the bottom, or has The Mighty Omicron knocked it out?

    As I posted, the data seems not to be widely available.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    It can't. Where no-one competes with the BBC is in radio/sound, and to some extent in real public service telly - Parliament Channel, news Channel, bits and pieces of other stuff.

    It would not be all that expensive (relatively) to fund properly the public service remit and the sort of radio that can't be commercialised, the World Service and proper news coverage. it is obvious that top quality entertainment telly can be funded elsewhere and should be.

    I suspect there are a couple of million voters who value BBC radio enough to care very much about it.

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    glw said:

    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.

    Whether you like it or not Netflix, Amazon, Disney and so on are the competition. This isn't the 1980s where the only US TV we might see is if the BBC or ITV buy some episodes of Dallas, Columbo, or The A-Team, anyone in the UK can watch American streaming services round the clock. The BBC and UK TV broadcasters in general are becoming a ever smaller part of what UK TV viewers are watching.
    Yes, but getting rid of the BBC or turning it into BBCFLIX or something affectively removes any news, current affaires, local programming or any new edgy comedies or documentaries. Do we want that? We may as well just plug in to american tv all day.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,869
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Apropos of not much... I was indeed 'up for Portillo'. In fact I was there, at the count, acting as an observer for the Edmonton count (neighbouring constituency, all counted together with Enfield North at Pickett's Lock).

    I remember the shellshocked look on Stephen Twigg's face. As I was told it at the time, he had a nice little number of a job lined up and had never expected to win Enfield Southgate. He obviously made the best of it, but it clearly came as a complete surprise.

    As I recall, Mr Portillo was pretty dignified about it. More so than some are in that situation.
    Alex Salmond going down, was undoubtedly the highlight of an otherwise very crap night in 2017.
    I suppose this is too much of a conspiracy theory, even for me, but I wonder if Sturgeon looked at the polling returns and realised that, the seats that would be lost by a lacklustre campaign would include Salmond’s?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Brutal.


    Sancho is an outstanding winger. It isn't his fault that Man Utd are too tactically crap for his position to work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    edited January 2022
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    In historical dramas we readily accept actors having different hair colour, accents, languages and physical proportions than the figures they are representing, but we still have a problem with different skin colours. That’s, to use a phrase many on here hate, white privilege.
    I have absolutely zero point zero zero problem with black people playing white people, or vice versa - except in cases where the skin colour is crucial to the story - a white man playing Martin Luther King, say, would be jarring and silly. Ditto trans and gays and the rest. Let everyone play everyone. The Woke idea you can only act within your gender, race silo is profoundly corrosive

    Moreover, as an aside, there WERE quite a few black people in 18th century aristo Russia. Not as many as implied in The Great but certainly some. The blue-blooded writer Alexander Pushkin was inordinately proud of his part-African heritage

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/dec/19/pushkins-pride-how-the-russian-literary-giant-paid-tribute-to-his-african-ancestry
    You say you have no problem with (eg) a black actor playing a white man (in a fictional drama) if the whiteness of the man in the drama isn't crucial to the story. But surely if a black actor is used the character is now *not* a white man (in this fictional drama) so the premise on which your test is based is rendered null before you can apply it?
    Interesting proposal by Dave Baddiel that only Jewish actors should play Jewish parts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

    We live in interesting times: a man can choose to be a woman and go to a women's prison and sexually assault the inmates, but a white person can't play another white person in a sitcom if he doesn't share that fictional character's religion.
    He must have missed the bit where Ben Kingsley played Yitzhak Stern in Schindler's List.
    He explicitly mentions it in his book, describing it as a great performance (and noting Kingsleys performance in Gandhi is now regarded by many as problematic). And the book is all about how if X is not ok because it is racist, it should also not be ok when it applies to jews as well. So if it is a problem for non-minority actors to portray the experience of a minority, as many believe, that should apply in such a situation.

    I think he's right about the double standard, but as I've noted before the whole 'actor must embody the character' trend has been taken way too far. Sometimes due to conflation with issues of lack of bredth of roles for some minorities (eg asian americans). So such an action of 'Only x to play x' is not the right response at all, but it is the logical position for a lot of people.
    I think his point is that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If only a black person can play a black person, only a trans person can play a trans person, only a disabled person can play a disabled person, then how come anyone can play someone who's jewish?

    Personally I think the clue is in the definition of the word "actor" which quite literally means playing a part, pretending to be someone else. Otherwise you end up with a reductio ad absurdam, e.g. by the same rule surely it's unacceptable for anyone who isn't actually a royal, or at the very least an aristo, to act in The Crown, on the basis of "lived experience"?


    The same horrible Woke identity ghetto-ising is happening in publishing. ie only black women can write the stories of black women, only trans people can write trans characters. Insane

    It started in Young Adult Publishing - which is fiendishly Woke - but now it is spreading to mainstream fiction, especially literary fiction

    It will produce art for imbeciles, just as the acting crap will produce movies for morons
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088

    Total new cases 70,924 7DA down 38%…..

    I’m intrigued as to where cases end up in a couple of weeks. By date of reporting we are almost back to pre omicron. Has the huge numbers of cases and boosters done enough to shove cases down more than about 50k per day? One would certainly hope so.
    Data missing, afaics, how much delta remains?
    I asked Nick earlier what his threshold would be to drop Plan B. I don’t think he’ll mind me saying that he is one of the more cautious PBers. In any case, he seemed happy to drop the theatre and cinema masks now (I inferred @NickPalmer ?) but wanted WFH and shopping masks to carry on until dailies dropped below 20k.

    Bizarre as it might seem, there is a chance (a chance!) that we might even get there by 26 Jan, to meet even Nick’s threshold.

    The drop is astounding.

    Precipitous.
    Just so long as the Government isn't stupid enough to set any targets like that. Because we know what's coming next. Yet another set of panic models have already spewed out of Warwick Uni's random number generator, predicting about 71 trillion hospital admissions a day in early Summer.

    Set a figure and the nanosecond the total of (mostly harmless) cases creeps over it, the screaming for masks everywhere will start up yet again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Is there any Delta left lurking at the bottom, or has The Mighty Omicron knocked it out?

    As I posted, the data seems not to be widely available.
    It's published weekly. See Figure 2 here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046853/technical-briefing-34-14-january-2022.pdf
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    It can't. Where no-one competes with the BBC is in radio/sound, and to some extent in real public service telly - Parliament Channel, news Channel, bits and pieces of other stuff.

    It would not be all that expensive (relatively) to fund properly the public service remit and the sort of radio that can't be commercialised, the World Service and proper news coverage. it is obvious that top quality entertainment telly can be funded elsewhere and should be.

    I suspect there are a couple of million voters who value BBC radio enough to care very much about it.

    Perversely, that's the are which people think is totally free, and would eb one of the first to go.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    You can still get all the classic stuff from the golden age of unwoke on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJswJ2h8N0
    Uploaded unchallenged by a guy called Matt Spanner, as opposed to being monetised by the official BBC ITV account. A great example of what’s wrong with UK TV companies in their approach to the internet.
    Would 'On The Buses' have much value though? I'd have thought all you could monetize is the threat - "Pay us now or we'll put repeats out!" - and that's probably not legal.
    It's the cinematic equivalent of a rickets case in a big tank of formalin in the museum of the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh.

    https://museum.rcsed.ac.uk/the-collection/key-collections/key-object-page?objID=1190&page=1

    Use for training new folk in the horrors of the past of their profession.
    I think I'd choose 30 mins looking at that actually!
    It's actually a fascinating museum (group of museums really) as well as being one of the great professional centres of medicine. Had a very pleasant conference there not too long before you know what.
    At the risk of sounding weird I quite like skeletons. They don't spook me at all. In general, I mean, obviously if they are the result of something grisly that's different.
    An excuse to copy one of my favourite film scenes:

    https://youtu.be/zGfG7kOX1-U
    He was great, he really was.
    It is just baffling, when you consider the dross he’s put out over the last 10 years that he’s the same man who made Manhattan, simply one of the most perfect films ever made.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    In historical dramas we readily accept actors having different hair colour, accents, languages and physical proportions than the figures they are representing, but we still have a problem with different skin colours. That’s, to use a phrase many on here hate, white privilege.
    I have absolutely zero point zero zero problem with black people playing white people, or vice versa - except in cases where the skin colour is crucial to the story - a white man playing Martin Luther King, say, would be jarring and silly. Ditto trans and gays and the rest. Let everyone play everyone. The Woke idea you can only act within your gender, race silo is profoundly corrosive

    Moreover, as an aside, there WERE quite a few black people in 18th century aristo Russia. Not as many as implied in The Great but certainly some. The blue-blooded writer Alexander Pushkin was inordinately proud of his part-African heritage

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/dec/19/pushkins-pride-how-the-russian-literary-giant-paid-tribute-to-his-african-ancestry
    You say you have no problem with (eg) a black actor playing a white man (in a fictional drama) if the whiteness of the man in the drama isn't crucial to the story. But surely if a black actor is used the character is now *not* a white man (in this fictional drama) so the premise on which your test is based is rendered null before you can apply it?
    Interesting proposal by Dave Baddiel that only Jewish actors should play Jewish parts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

    We live in interesting times: a man can choose to be a woman and go to a women's prison and sexually assault the inmates, but a white person can't play another white person in a sitcom if he doesn't share that fictional character's religion.
    He must have missed the bit where Ben Kingsley played Yitzhak Stern in Schindler's List.
    He explicitly mentions it in his book, describing it as a great performance (and noting Kingsleys performance in Gandhi is now regarded by many as problematic). And the book is all about how if X is not ok because it is racist, it should also not be ok when it applies to jews as well. So if it is a problem for non-minority actors to portray the experience of a minority, as many believe, that should apply in such a situation.

    I think he's right about the double standard, but as I've noted before the whole 'actor must embody the character' trend has been taken way too far. Sometimes due to conflation with issues of lack of bredth of roles for some minorities (eg asian americans). So such an action of 'Only x to play x' is not the right response at all, but it is the logical position for a lot of people.
    I think his point is that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If only a black person can play a black person, only a trans person can play a trans person, only a disabled person can play a disabled person, then how come anyone can play someone who's jewish?

    Personally I think the clue is in the definition of the word "actor" which quite literally means playing a part, pretending to be someone else. Otherwise you end up with a reductio ad absurdam, e.g. by the same rule surely it's unacceptable for anyone who isn't actually a royal, or at the very least an aristo, to act in The Crown, on the basis of "lived experience"?

    Your first para is exactly right as to his point I think. He's right that if we are going down that route, then that should be done across the board. The issue is if they can stop themselves going down that rabbit hole - given the attempted confected outrage even over Gal Gadot playing Cleopatra, albeit unsuccesful outrage in that case, it is not promising.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    You can still get all the classic stuff from the golden age of unwoke on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJswJ2h8N0
    Uploaded unchallenged by a guy called Matt Spanner, as opposed to being monetised by the official BBC ITV account. A great example of what’s wrong with UK TV companies in their approach to the internet.
    Would 'On The Buses' have much value though? I'd have thought all you could monetize is the threat - "Pay us now or we'll put repeats out!" - and that's probably not legal.
    On the Buses would have limited value. ITV3 screen it regularly as it costs them little to do so and it has already been released on DVD. Same with the films.
    Mutiny on the Buses was shown on ITV3 this very morning.
    and, before it, On the Buses.

    It's a genuinely fascinating snapshot of a particular era. All those beiges!
    Harry Enfield did quite an amusing parody of On The Buses a few years back, which suddenly comes back to mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q1uHcGTK8k
    Coincidentally saw this brilliant old Harry Enfield clip on Twitter just now. Again one has to ask, would it get made now? Could be seen as misogynist, despite the fact it is clearly sending up archaic misogyny

    https://twitter.com/HarryEnfield6/status/1481935300549136387?s=20
    How much of Little Britain would be made today, only a decade and a half after the BBC first showed it?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    In historical dramas we readily accept actors having different hair colour, accents, languages and physical proportions than the figures they are representing, but we still have a problem with different skin colours. That’s, to use a phrase many on here hate, white privilege.
    I have absolutely zero point zero zero problem with black people playing white people, or vice versa - except in cases where the skin colour is crucial to the story - a white man playing Martin Luther King, say, would be jarring and silly. Ditto trans and gays and the rest. Let everyone play everyone. The Woke idea you can only act within your gender, race silo is profoundly corrosive

    Moreover, as an aside, there WERE quite a few black people in 18th century aristo Russia. Not as many as implied in The Great but certainly some. The blue-blooded writer Alexander Pushkin was inordinately proud of his part-African heritage

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/dec/19/pushkins-pride-how-the-russian-literary-giant-paid-tribute-to-his-african-ancestry
    You say you have no problem with (eg) a black actor playing a white man (in a fictional drama) if the whiteness of the man in the drama isn't crucial to the story. But surely if a black actor is used the character is now *not* a white man (in this fictional drama) so the premise on which your test is based is rendered null before you can apply it?
    Interesting proposal by Dave Baddiel that only Jewish actors should play Jewish parts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

    We live in interesting times: a man can choose to be a woman and go to a women's prison and sexually assault the inmates, but a white person can't play another white person in a sitcom if he doesn't share that fictional character's religion.
    He must have missed the bit where Ben Kingsley played Yitzhak Stern in Schindler's List.
    He explicitly mentions it in his book, describing it as a great performance (and noting Kingsleys performance in Gandhi is now regarded by many as problematic). And the book is all about how if X is not ok because it is racist, it should also not be ok when it applies to jews as well. So if it is a problem for non-minority actors to portray the experience of a minority, as many believe, that should apply in such a situation.

    I think he's right about the double standard, but as I've noted before the whole 'actor must embody the character' trend has been taken way too far. Sometimes due to conflation with issues of lack of bredth of roles for some minorities (eg asian americans). So such an action of 'Only x to play x' is not the right response at all, but it is the logical position for a lot of people.
    I think his point is that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If only a black person can play a black person, only a trans person can play a trans person, only a disabled person can play a disabled person, then how come anyone can play someone who's jewish?

    Personally I think the clue is in the definition of the word "actor" which quite literally means playing a part, pretending to be someone else. Otherwise you end up with a reductio ad absurdam, e.g. by the same rule surely it's unacceptable for anyone who isn't actually a royal, or at the very least an aristo, to act in The Crown, on the basis of "lived experience"?


    Can't white actors just self identify as black to get round these issues?
  • Leon said:

    Extraordinary footage of everyday looting on American railways - this is LA

    https://twitter.com/johnschreiber/status/1481770722271760384?s=20


    It has gone viral, after long being ignored

    America is in deep shit (part 5,928)

    A little-known start-up called the BBC had a piece on it.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-60006306
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    It can't. Where no-one competes with the BBC is in radio/sound, and to some extent in real public service telly - Parliament Channel, news Channel, bits and pieces of other stuff.

    It would not be all that expensive (relatively) to fund properly the public service remit and the sort of radio that can't be commercialised, the World Service and proper news coverage. it is obvious that top quality entertainment telly can be funded elsewhere and should be.

    I suspect there are a couple of million voters who value BBC radio enough to care very much about it.

    Radio / Sound.....Radio...FFS....its dying like over the air tv. Podcasts are the audio equivalent of tv streaming and they are massive. Joe Rogan does 11 million downloads per episode.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    pigeon said:

    Total new cases 70,924 7DA down 38%…..

    I’m intrigued as to where cases end up in a couple of weeks. By date of reporting we are almost back to pre omicron. Has the huge numbers of cases and boosters done enough to shove cases down more than about 50k per day? One would certainly hope so.
    Data missing, afaics, how much delta remains?
    I asked Nick earlier what his threshold would be to drop Plan B. I don’t think he’ll mind me saying that he is one of the more cautious PBers. In any case, he seemed happy to drop the theatre and cinema masks now (I inferred @NickPalmer ?) but wanted WFH and shopping masks to carry on until dailies dropped below 20k.

    Bizarre as it might seem, there is a chance (a chance!) that we might even get there by 26 Jan, to meet even Nick’s threshold.

    The drop is astounding.

    Precipitous.
    Just so long as the Government isn't stupid enough to set any targets like that. Because we know what's coming next. Yet another set of panic models have already spewed out of Warwick Uni's random number generator, predicting about 71 trillion hospital admissions a day in early Summer.

    Set a figure and the nanosecond the total of (mostly harmless) cases creeps over it, the screaming for masks everywhere will start up yet again.
    Oh yes, I agree. The government needs to bin Plan B tomorrow.

    There really is no justification for its recommendation that businesspeople should avoid meeting in-person.

    That directive has damaged my business. I suspect I am one of thousands of others.
  • I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20
  • pigeon said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Apropos of nothing, with Djokovic out before the tournament begins does everyone slide up 1 space in the seedings, or do they just leave everyone as they are and re-shuffle the draw slightly to accommodate the lucky loser and run the tournament with no No.1 seed?

    The latter. There was a plan to move some of the seeds around the draw to rebalance it, but the deportation verdict came too late because they needed to finalise all the matches. It makes the draw a bit lop-sided, because Djokovic's place in the top half is now occupied directly by the lucky loser, but I doubt that will make too much difference in the grand scheme of things.

    Arguably the principal beneficiary of the situation is seventh seed Matteo Berrettini, who would've been slated to play Djokovic (his conqueror in last year's Wimbledon final) in the quarter-finals, but has now had that banana skin removed from his path. Everyone now in contention for Djokovic's place in the quarter-finals will also be seeing this as a big opportunity for advancement, as that section is now very open.
    I've done Sinner at 60/1.
    You've done very well there. I don't know how much of it is the Djokovic removal effect, but Sinner doesn't appear to be available at longer than about 20-1 now.

    I'm assuming the Medvedev will walk it, but if he trips over his own shoelaces then you never know...
    Sinner is 42 on Betfair. Medvedev 2.9.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    I love a lot of BBC dramas.

    They don’t suffer from the ludicrous overkill that bedevils so many American streaming series.

    Six episodes is very often plenty to tell a story.

    The commercial pressure to flog the shit out of an idea gave us the likes of House of Cards - which would have been infinitely better wrapped up in two series.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days.
    I agree there, but the ones I've seen are usually one on one, talking head stuff with a bit of infill video. Not the same as a full on Drama or comedy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Also, isn't one wave of infection after another pretty much the very definition of endemic?

    And each wave primes our immune system more, so that it takes the virus on earlier and earlier each time?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Latest from Tonga:

    A massive volcanic eruption in Tonga that triggered tsunami waves has smothered the Pacific islands in ash, cut power and severed communications.

    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says the tsunami wreaked "significant damage", washing boats ashore and battering beachside shops.

    Information from Tonga is scarce but no deaths have been reported so far.

    Locals say Tonga looks "like a moonscape" after being coated in a layer of volcanic ash.

    The dust was reportedly contaminating water supplies and making fresh water a vital need, Ms Ardern said.

    Aid charities said the ash and smoke had prompted authorities to tell people to drink bottled water and wear face masks to protect their lungs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60009944

    This is potentially catastrophic - with the ash deposits being a vastly worse problem than any damage caused by tsunami waves. We know all about that from what became of Montserrat, much of which has been rendered uninhabitable for the long term by the ash blanket under which it was buried. Hopefully Tonga has avoided damage of that severity; their volcano is much further from inhabited areas, but also vastly more powerful.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    I love a lot of BBC dramas.

    They don’t suffer from the ludicrous overkill that bedevils so many American streaming series.

    Six episodes is very often plenty to tell a story.

    The commercial pressure to flog the shit out of an idea gave us the likes of House of Cards - which would have been infinitely better wrapped up in two series.

    Netflix and other streaming has actually helped with this, as they seem more inclined to go for things of 10-13 episodes rather than the traditional 22-24 of american network dramas. There are ups and downs to that, but while you do get stuff going on far too long, I like getting absorbed in a long running show over many years. A lot of the Korean stuff seems to only have 1 series, although often about 16 episodes of anything from 60-80 minutes, so they can seem overlong.
  • Aslan said:

    Brutal.


    Sancho is an outstanding winger. It isn't his fault that Man Utd are too tactically crap for his position to work.
    The score that counts

    Premier titles

    Man Utd 13 Liverpool 1

    and that is not changing this year !!!!!
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    You can still get all the classic stuff from the golden age of unwoke on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJswJ2h8N0
    Uploaded unchallenged by a guy called Matt Spanner, as opposed to being monetised by the official BBC ITV account. A great example of what’s wrong with UK TV companies in their approach to the internet.
    Would 'On The Buses' have much value though? I'd have thought all you could monetize is the threat - "Pay us now or we'll put repeats out!" - and that's probably not legal.
    On the Buses would have limited value. ITV3 screen it regularly as it costs them little to do so and it has already been released on DVD. Same with the films.
    Mutiny on the Buses was shown on ITV3 this very morning.
    and, before it, On the Buses.

    It's a genuinely fascinating snapshot of a particular era. All those beiges!
    Harry Enfield did quite an amusing parody of On The Buses a few years back, which suddenly comes back to mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q1uHcGTK8k
    Coincidentally saw this brilliant old Harry Enfield clip on Twitter just now. Again one has to ask, would it get made now? Could be seen as misogynist, despite the fact it is clearly sending up archaic misogyny

    https://twitter.com/HarryEnfield6/status/1481935300549136387?s=20
    How much of Little Britain would be made today, only a decade and a half after the BBC first showed it?
    Computer says NO!
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Not enough info yet on it especially on severity, but it's infecting a lot in Europe especially Denmark. It's the dominant variant there now over BA.1.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    It’s a sub variant of Omicron. Note he says reinfect people who had the original strain. We know Omicron does that. His timeline shows he’s a Zero Covid zealot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Sky is moving to a totally streaming based service. And yet we have the BBC relaunching BBC3 as an over the air channel.

    Yes that's really odd, particularly given the target audience. You would expect the BBC to be reducing channels and broadcasting, not opening more. Sky Glass works really well, it's not appreciably different from using terrestrial or satellite broadcast TV despite everything being streamed via your broadband.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    edited January 2022
    pigeon said:

    Latest from Tonga:

    A massive volcanic eruption in Tonga that triggered tsunami waves has smothered the Pacific islands in ash, cut power and severed communications.

    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says the tsunami wreaked "significant damage", washing boats ashore and battering beachside shops.

    Information from Tonga is scarce but no deaths have been reported so far.

    Locals say Tonga looks "like a moonscape" after being coated in a layer of volcanic ash.

    The dust was reportedly contaminating water supplies and making fresh water a vital need, Ms Ardern said.

    Aid charities said the ash and smoke had prompted authorities to tell people to drink bottled water and wear face masks to protect their lungs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60009944

    This is potentially catastrophic - with the ash deposits being a vastly worse problem than any damage caused by tsunami waves. We know all about that from what became of Montserrat, much of which has been rendered uninhabitable for the long term by the ash blanket under which it was buried. Hopefully Tonga has avoided damage of that severity; their volcano is much further from inhabited areas, but also vastly more powerful.

    The Montserrat eruption also went on for months. This was one day. At least, let's hope it was one day. I don't think they would want any follow up.

    Edit - not months, four years. And there are still eruptions even today.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Oh Sunday Sunday - what a bore - as Johnny Cash sang.

    Two thoughts-

    That Man City goalkeeper has really ugly tats.

    And did I notice Micah Richards wearing a pink gold watch on MOTD?

    Are poor fashion choices a Man City thing?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    It can't. Where no-one competes with the BBC is in radio/sound, and to some extent in real public service telly - Parliament Channel, news Channel, bits and pieces of other stuff.

    It would not be all that expensive (relatively) to fund properly the public service remit and the sort of radio that can't be commercialised, the World Service and proper news coverage. it is obvious that top quality entertainment telly can be funded elsewhere and should be.

    I suspect there are a couple of million voters who value BBC radio enough to care very much about it.

    Radio / Sound.....Radio...FFS....its dying like over the air tv. Podcasts are the audio equivalent of tv streaming and they are massive. Joe Rogan does 11 million downloads per episode.
    R4 Today prog alone reaches over 6 million listeners per week. It makes no difference what platform it is heard on, though radio is far from defunct. They all vote.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days.
    I agree there, but the ones I've seen are usually one on one, talking head stuff with a bit of infill video. Not the same as a full on Drama or comedy.
    But that's a different segment of the market. Drama = Netflix, Disney, etc, all 4k. The informative, the long form discussion, the specialist tech, yadda yadda yadda, YouTube.

    And no its way more than just a talking head with some infill these days on Yotube. There are plenty of incredibly high quality travel stuff for instance, 4k, drones, etc etc etc.
  • glw said:

    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.

    Whether you like it or not Netflix, Amazon, Disney and so on are the competition. This isn't the 1980s where the only US TV we might see is if the BBC or ITV buy some episodes of Dallas, Columbo, or The A-Team, anyone in the UK can watch American streaming services round the clock. The BBC and UK TV broadcasters in general are becoming a ever smaller part of what UK TV viewers are watching.
    Yes, but getting rid of the BBC or turning it into BBCFLIX or something affectively removes any news, current affaires, local programming or any new edgy comedies or documentaries. Do we want that? We may as well just plug in to american tv all day.
    You could always VOLUNTARILY SUBSCRIBE to the BBC in future, as opposed to having the current COMPULSORY TV TAX.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Yes, but getting rid of the BBC or turning it into BBCFLIX or something affectively removes any news, current affaires, local programming or any new edgy comedies or documentaries. Do we want that? We may as well just plug in to american tv all day.

    But that's the point, people are plugging in to American TV all day. Should those viewers be compelled to pay for a BBC they don't watch forever and ever? Or maybe the BBC should change to satisfy more UK viewers, and ideally also make a buck or two selling UK programmes to the rest of the world.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    This...explained much better than I was. Veritasium is a great example of a high quality show.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    I see we're developing a 'woke gorn mad' head of steam as if it's a crazy absolutist takeover of the West rather than a pushback against the inherent assumptions and imbalances of prior times, and the promotion of a challenging but useful conversation about things like punching up/down and cultural appropriation and who gets a platform to make money, accrue status, fulfill aspirations, indulge creativity and propagate their world view.

    And I am utterly powerless to stop it. So off I go, mine's a Chilean red and a bag of nuts.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days.
    I agree there, but the ones I've seen are usually one on one, talking head stuff with a bit of infill video. Not the same as a full on Drama or comedy.
    But that's a different segment of the market. Drama = Netflix, Disney, etc, all 4k. The informative, the long form discussion, the specialist tech, yadda yadda yadda, YouTube.

    And no its way more than just a talking head with some infill these days on Yotube. There are plenty of incredibly high quality travel stuff for instance, 4k, drones, etc etc etc.
    I was refering to Youtube influencers etc in my post. Obviously Netflix etc produce some very good drams in 4K
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Yup - Community Channel led the way on this I reckon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days.
    I agree there, but the ones I've seen are usually one on one, talking head stuff with a bit of infill video. Not the same as a full on Drama or comedy.
    But that's a different segment of the market. Drama = Netflix, Disney, etc, all 4k. The informative, the long form discussion, the specialist tech, yadda yadda yadda, YouTube.

    And no its way more than just a talking head with some infill these days on Yotube. There are plenty of incredibly high quality travel stuff for instance, 4k, drones, etc etc etc.
    I was refering to Youtube influencers etc in my post. Obviously Netflix etc produce some very good drams in 4K
    Influencers are only one segment of the YouTube market (a very successful one). But there is so so much more. As Rob pointed out Veritasium is a really good example, 4k, excellent production values, massive audience, and informative science.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
    That's not quite true: there are plenty of channels that produce weekly videos that get 100-250,000 views that are basically one full time person (writer and presenter), and a couple of part time ones (video editing and animations). If you have a channel that pumps out one of those videos each week, you'll earn an OK living.

    And if you are able to make the step up to getting 1m+ views for each video, then you'll be doing very well.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    Total new cases 70,924 7DA down 38%…..

    I’m intrigued as to where cases end up in a couple of weeks. By date of reporting we are almost back to pre omicron. Has the huge numbers of cases and boosters done enough to shove cases down more than about 50k per day? One would certainly hope so.
    Data missing, afaics, how much delta remains?
    I asked Nick earlier what his threshold would be to drop Plan B. I don’t think he’ll mind me saying that he is one of the more cautious PBers. In any case, he seemed happy to drop the theatre and cinema masks now (I inferred @NickPalmer ?) but wanted WFH and shopping masks to carry on until dailies dropped below 20k.

    Bizarre as it might seem, there is a chance (a chance!) that we might even get there by 26 Jan, to meet even Nick’s threshold.

    The drop is astounding.

    Precipitous.
    Yep, that's a fair summary of my random thoughts. Let's hope it turns out like that!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880
    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Original strain of Covid, or origanal strain of omicron? If the former, no worries. I seriously doubt it’s the latter, as there hasn’t been time.
    So no, don’t stress.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Return of the Obra Dinn was good, and no doubt a technical challenge for one person, but not really an example of matching production values of the big boys (nor did it attempt to) I'd have thought - monochrome, no character animation etc - hence being more an example of what I meant as focusong on story and gameplay (ok, not the the latter for Obra Dinn). But definitely relatively small teams can produce some pretty remarkable visual stuff compared to what was big budget stuff only a little while ago.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Also, isn't one wave of infection after another pretty much the very definition of endemic?

    And each wave primes our immune system more, so that it takes the virus on earlier and earlier each time?
    Endemic means steady state (R0 of 1 among non immune population)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemic_(epidemiology)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
    OK it has taken me a few minutes to find this example from Linus Tech Tips (14 million subscribers). It is the most recent video, 22 hours old, and not previously watched by me. Not "bullshit" then.
    https://youtu.be/eSqrq8v-QLs?t=536s
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880

    Aslan said:

    Brutal.


    Sancho is an outstanding winger. It isn't his fault that Man Utd are too tactically crap for his position to work.
    The score that counts

    Premier titles

    Man Utd 13 Liverpool 1

    and that is not changing this year !!!!!
    Please Big G, you are old and wise enough to know that football existed before the premiership/premier league.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    This...explained much better than I was. Veritasium is a great example of a high quality show.
    It is: it's one of my favourite YouTube channels: really interesting content, presented well.

    How many people work on each episode? Probably half a dozen. But I'd guess that there are probably only two or three people working on it full time. There's the host, Derek Muller, and then maybe a researcher/assistant, and someone whose job is to promote the channel full time.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,920
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
    OK it has taken me a few minutes to find this example from Linus Tech Tips (14 million subscribers). It is the most recent video, 22 hours old, and not previously watched by me. Not "bullshit" then.
    https://youtu.be/eSqrq8v-QLs?t=536s
    Mentour Pilot is great for aviation fans.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    glw said:

    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.

    Whether you like it or not Netflix, Amazon, Disney and so on are the competition. This isn't the 1980s where the only US TV we might see is if the BBC or ITV buy some episodes of Dallas, Columbo, or The A-Team, anyone in the UK can watch American streaming services round the clock. The BBC and UK TV broadcasters in general are becoming a ever smaller part of what UK TV viewers are watching.
    Yes, but getting rid of the BBC or turning it into BBCFLIX or something affectively removes any news, current affaires, local programming or any new edgy comedies or documentaries. Do we want that? We may as well just plug in to american tv all day.
    You could always VOLUNTARILY SUBSCRIBE to the BBC in future, as opposed to having the current COMPULSORY TV TAX.
    Urgh - I've tried my best to stay away from the Beeb old chest nut debate.

    The simple fact of the matter is that it's the most regressive tax there is.

    Well apart from the min alcohol tax in Scotland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    How do you know Veritasium barely makes money? I would argue strongly that isn't true. 1.5 billion views is a lot of income from YouTube ads (and science stuff seems to pay good CRM), but they also have sponsored videos that these days can pay a lot. Patreon is often just another way to make money, but saying support us and you get extras.

    There are plenty of YouTubers who have shown their income from channels with much smaller audience, and although different CRMs across genres etc, 100m videos a year, you are making a decent living from YouTube ads alone.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
    OK it has taken me a few minutes to find this example from Linus Tech Tips (14 million subscribers). It is the most recent video, 22 hours old, and not previously watched by me. Not "bullshit" then.
    https://youtu.be/eSqrq8v-QLs?t=536s
    very niche
  • kinabalu said:

    I see we're developing a 'woke gorn mad' head of steam as if it's a crazy absolutist takeover of the West rather than a pushback against the inherent assumptions and imbalances of prior times, and the promotion of a challenging but useful conversation about things like punching up/down and cultural appropriation and who gets a platform to make money, accrue status, fulfill aspirations, indulge creativity and propagate their world view.

    And I am utterly powerless to stop it. So off I go, mine's a Chilean red and a bag of nuts.

    Before you go, if you think acting someone of a different ethnicity is "cultural appropriation" and implicitly wrong, might you be able to answer my Tiger Woods questions?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    I very much doubt anyone has caught omicron twice already. I think you may be misinterpreting infects original as reinfection omicron.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    edited January 2022

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Original strain of Covid, or origanal strain of omicron? If the former, no worries. I seriously doubt it’s the latter, as there hasn’t been time.
    So no, don’t stress.
    No one knows, if you get Omicron BA1 it POSSIBLY doesn't offer much immunity to BA2. But the evidence is thin, and might well be wrong

    This thread is part reassuring part not-that-reassuring


    https://twitter.com/JosetteSchoenma/status/1482273625101250561?s=20
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Original strain of Covid, or origanal strain of omicron? If the former, no worries. I seriously doubt it’s the latter, as there hasn’t been time.
    So no, don’t stress.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/07/scientists-find-stealth-version-of-omicron-not-identifiable-with-pcr-test-covid-variant

    Known since early December

    It is not undetectable by PCR, it is merely impossible to identify as Omicron Vs delta by PCR. Irrelevant as e know everything is Omicron now anyway

    Don't like the sound of plus virulent. Of all the things I am right about the one I least want to say I told you so, is that the theory that it gets more benign with every wave is baloney
  • Mentour Pilot on the Tenerife runway disaster of 1977:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited January 2022

    I have said this before, but it is also absolutely ridiculous BBC still isn't 4K. Sodding no name YouTubers are in 4k these days and production values are super high as soon as these people get any sort of following.

    Production values on Youtube are often poor even if shot on expensive equipment. In particular, the cry "take two" is rarely heard, and flubbed lines or even untruths are often just covered by onscreen text or a jarring voiceover.
    Bullshit. The YouTubers will followings have extremely high production value these days. The world has massively moved on since cat videos.

    And some of the stuff we might thing is crap, cringy, informal, that is what the kids watch in their millions, they like the pseudo-amateurish. Its deliberate, its a he's our mate talking to us, we are going up with them. That is why the BBC Three tanks, they don't get watch teenagers want.
    OK it has taken me a few minutes to find this example from Linus Tech Tips (14 million subscribers). It is the most recent video, 22 hours old, and not previously watched by me. Not "bullshit" then.
    https://youtu.be/eSqrq8v-QLs?t=536s
    Mentour Pilot is great for aviation fans.
    Indeed. There’s some great YouTube channels that come out of people with interesting or unusual jobs, that have got huge numbers of followers. I follow one guy who has a car recovery business, but in the desert of Utah. He is about to hit a million subscribers, and must be making as much money from videos as he is from the day job. https://youtube.com/c/MattsOffRoadRecovery
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    edited January 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    How do you know Veritasium barely makes money? I would argue strongly that isn't true. 1.5 billion views is a lot of income from YouTube ads (and science stuff seems to pay good CRM), but they also have sponsored videos that these days can pay a lot. Patreon is often just another way to make money, but saying support us and you get extras.

    There are plenty of YouTubers who have shown their income from channels with much smaller audience, and although different CRMs across genres etc, 100m videos a year, you are making a decent living from YouTube ads alone.
    According to a google search, approx £2000 per million views on a youtube video on average, hence the world wide access required to achieve those views. Out of that you need to employ a team to research, write, film, and edit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    In fairness, it's *possible* that a lot of these voters might move back to supporting the government if Gavin Williamson got a knighthood.

    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1482761706006847491

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1482739732723515396
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited January 2022

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    Production values aren't everything of course, plenty of excellently produced garbage out there, but just in terms of profile, slickness of operation and spectacle, it does seem like the areas the BBC and smaller operators can compete will be much reduced.
    The problem is that as the likes of the Indy and the Telegraph pointed out about the Around the World in 80 days, even their bigger budget shows now looks really cheap, compared to what is the norm on these big streaming services.

    It is supposed to be a jaunt around the world, instead they shot a load of episodes on the same street in Romania.

    The bar has been raised so much now. We now expect movie quality production from the big budget Netflix et al. shows.
    They have even raised the bar for cheap television too. Look at some of the recent comedy specials on Netflix, not from a content point of view, but from a production point of view.

    Clearly a lot of attention to detail for a production which, Dave Chapelle apart, they’re generally only paying six figures for the finished programme.
    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.
    Because currently we have to pay for it to watch any live tv and the BBC themselves try to tell everybody they are as good as the competition all for a few quid a week. And ultimately they are in competition for our eyeballs.

    And increasingly it is clear things like their news and sport coverage isn't actually very good. They have had a piss poor pandemic, constantly getting simple things wrong time and time again. We know this, because we can simply find out this information via other people on the internet, and in as stepped the likes of Dr Campbell who have built a very large viewership explaining this to the masses.

    And the world with the internet is going to a model of specialised knowledge e.g. The Athletic is an infinity better product than BBC Sport website.
    Yes the Athletic is far superior to the rubbish churned out on BBC sport ( which is now half sport /half "human interest " fluff)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
    I think there is some Chinese whispers about the reinfection. The link was to an Imperial report from Dec about omicron infecting delta, and vaccinated folk, not about reinfections in omicron recovered patients.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Original strain of Covid, or origanal strain of omicron? If the former, no worries. I seriously doubt it’s the latter, as there hasn’t been time.
    So no, don’t stress.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/07/scientists-find-stealth-version-of-omicron-not-identifiable-with-pcr-test-covid-variant

    Known since early December

    It is not undetectable by PCR, it is merely impossible to identify as Omicron Vs delta by PCR. Irrelevant as e know everything is Omicron now anyway

    Don't like the sound of plus virulent. Of all the things I am right about the one I least want to say I told you so, is that the theory that it gets more benign with every wave is baloney
    Thanks for that doc link. It is safe to say, assuming that document portrays events as they happened, that animals were saved at the expense of humans and that non at-risk humans who worked for an animal charity were saved at the expense of at-risk humans.

    Whoever was responsible for or justifies this is beneath contempt.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
    No, not messing my kecks. Just quietly observing that a new variant with multiple new evolutions has emerged, which MAY have some perturbing properties in its ability to reinfect people with Omicron Classic with brand new Omicron Oh FFS. And it is now overtaking Omicron Classic in Denmark, so something is going on. We just dunno what. Maybe nothing to worry about

    You'll know when I lapse into total hysteria. It's quite something
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
    Thing is @leon is alone in his flat, bored, too early to start the wine and is raking Twatter for anything vaguely scary to pass round the camp fire.
    It’s why we love him...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,461
    kinabalu said:

    I see we're developing a 'woke gorn mad' head of steam as if it's a crazy absolutist takeover of the West rather than a pushback against the inherent assumptions and imbalances of prior times, and the promotion of a challenging but useful conversation about things like punching up/down and cultural appropriation and who gets a platform to make money, accrue status, fulfill aspirations, indulge creativity and propagate their world view.

    And I am utterly powerless to stop it. So off I go, mine's a Chilean red and a bag of nuts.

    You're so woke, I'll bet you wouldn't have bought a Chilean red when Pinochet was in power. :)
  • Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    Production values aren't everything of course, plenty of excellently produced garbage out there, but just in terms of profile, slickness of operation and spectacle, it does seem like the areas the BBC and smaller operators can compete will be much reduced.
    The problem is that as the likes of the Indy and the Telegraph pointed out about the Around the World in 80 days, even their bigger budget shows now looks really cheap, compared to what is the norm on these big streaming services.

    It is supposed to be a jaunt around the world, instead they shot a load of episodes on the same street in Romania.

    The bar has been raised so much now. We now expect movie quality production from the big budget Netflix et al. shows.
    They have even raised the bar for cheap television too. Look at some of the recent comedy specials on Netflix, not from a content point of view, but from a production point of view.

    Clearly a lot of attention to detail for a production which, Dave Chapelle apart, they’re generally only paying six figures for the finished programme.
    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.
    Because currently we have to pay for it to watch any live tv and the BBC themselves try to tell everybody they are as good as the competition all for a few quid a week. And ultimately they are in competition for our eyeballs.

    And increasingly it is clear things like their news and sport coverage isn't actually very good. They have had a piss poor pandemic, constantly getting simple things wrong time and time again. We know this, because we can simply find out this information via other people on the internet, and in as stepped the likes of Dr Campbell who have built a very large viewership explaining this to the masses.

    And the world with the internet is going to a model of specialised knowledge e.g. The Athletic is an infinity better product than BBC Sport website.
    Yes the Athletic is far superior to the rubbish churned out on BBC sport ( which is now half sport /half "human interest " fluff)
    Bought by a media group so expect it to regress quite sharply over the next couple of years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    How do you know Veritasium barely makes money? I would argue strongly that isn't true. 1.5 billion views is a lot of income from YouTube ads (and science stuff seems to pay good CRM), but they also have sponsored videos that these days can pay a lot. Patreon is often just another way to make money, but saying support us and you get extras.

    There are plenty of YouTubers who have shown their income from channels with much smaller audience, and although different CRMs across genres etc, 100m videos a year, you are making a decent living from YouTube ads alone.
    According to a google search, approx £2000 per million views on a youtube video on average, hence the world wide access required to achieve those views. Out of that you need to employ a team to research, write, film, and edit.
    Its a lot more complex than that. It depends on your topic and also there is an element of the big fish take the smaller fish lunch i.e. people want to pay more to be an ad on a channel that consistently gets good views every video.

    e.g, this guy made $278k in basically 6 months only doing ~100k views per video and 380k followers, as his RPM $7.5 / 1000 views.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_aZ72ktAyE

    I have absolutely no doubt, Veritasium as a company will be bringing in millions per year from YouTube revenue alone, before all the paid sponsorships. Now they have a team of people, but it ain't a break even operation that needs that Pateron money.
  • Scott_xP said:

    In fairness, it's *possible* that a lot of these voters might move back to supporting the government if Gavin Williamson got a knighthood.

    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1482761706006847491

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1482739732723515396

    Best comment on Boris: “I liked him because he was a bit different to the David Cameron, Eton-educated typical Tory."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,146
    Scott_xP said:

    In fairness, it's *possible* that a lot of these voters might move back to supporting the government if Gavin Williamson got a knighthood.

    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1482761706006847491

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1482739732723515396

    I Liked this one about Mr J trying to buckle down ...

    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1482488099674464258?cxt=HHwWhIC5zc7E7ZIpAAAA
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,880
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
    No, not messing my kecks. Just quietly observing that a new variant with multiple new evolutions has emerged, which MAY have some perturbing properties in its ability to reinfect people with Omicron Classic with brand new Omicron Oh FFS. And it is now overtaking Omicron Classic in Denmark, so something is going on. We just dunno what. Maybe nothing to worry about

    You'll know when I lapse into total hysteria. It's quite something
    Have you a link for the omicron reinfections omicron? I think this is a mistake in what I looked at. Yes omicron is better at reinfection previous variants, but I don’t see evidence for it reinfecting omicron recovered. Unless you can show different?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    The good news is the BoZo fanbois have apparently dismissed the focus group results as Remoaner propaganda.

    To Oblivion, and beyond...
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    On the BBC Survival story, and its inability to fight Netflix and Prime etc, there is one slight counter-argument. The big American companies are Woking themselves to death

    Read this remarkable article about diversity and Wokeness in Hollywood and US TV:

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules?fbclid=IwAR1iYqNdMGhl68_fw_otlewrIEmL8YYkjGO9bR1C5_UHjzDA5ZsUu1X90Ao


    If the US streamers just pump out unfunny PC comedy and tediously liberal movies they won't prosper, either. Perhaps the Koreans will take over, because they don't give a shit and they are highly creative. Squid Game

    I can vouch for the paragraphs about the endless hunt for "diversity hires". It is the same in the UK (if not quite as bad). Every job has to go to a Woman or a "BIPOC" (think BAME plus Native Americans)

    What is extraordinary in America is that they now have strict racial quotas for movies that want to be considered for the Oscars:



    "So, in September 2020, the Academy launched its Representation and Inclusion Standards Entry platform (or RAISE). For a movie to qualify for Best Picture, producers not only had to register detailed personal information about everyone involved in the making of that movie, but the movie had to meet two of the Academy’s four diversity standards—touching on everything from on-screen representation to creative leadership. (An Academy spokesperson said “only select staff” would have access to data collected on the platform.)

    "The Academy explained that movies failing to meet these standards would not be barred from qualifying for Best Picture until 2024. But producers are already complying: In 2020, data from 366 productions were submitted to the platform.

    "Meanwhile, CBS mandated that writers’ rooms be at least 40 percent black, indigenous and people of color (or BIPOC) for the 2021-2022 broadcast season and 50 percent for the 2022-2023 season. ABC Entertainment issued a detailed series of “inclusion standards.” (“I guarantee you every studio has something like that,” a longtime writer and director said.)

    A telling remark:

    "How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. “Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to out-woke everyone, including the woke,” one writer said. Suddenly, every conversation with every agent or head of content started with: Is anyone BIPOC attached to this?"

    Archive 81 on Netflix is great. Not even a hint of workery, just solid TV.
    And, of course, THE GREAT

    The funniest TV show in years, and absolutely non-PC (except they have multiple black actors in 18th century Russia? - but why not, it works). Still amazing it got made
    You can still get all the classic stuff from the golden age of unwoke on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJswJ2h8N0
    Uploaded unchallenged by a guy called Matt Spanner, as opposed to being monetised by the official BBC ITV account. A great example of what’s wrong with UK TV companies in their approach to the internet.
    Would 'On The Buses' have much value though? I'd have thought all you could monetize is the threat - "Pay us now or we'll put repeats out!" - and that's probably not legal.
    On the Buses would have limited value. ITV3 screen it regularly as it costs them little to do so and it has already been released on DVD. Same with the films.
    Mutiny on the Buses was shown on ITV3 this very morning.
    and, before it, On the Buses.

    It's a genuinely fascinating snapshot of a particular era. All those beiges!
    Harry Enfield did quite an amusing parody of On The Buses a few years back, which suddenly comes back to mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q1uHcGTK8k
    Coincidentally saw this brilliant old Harry Enfield clip on Twitter just now. Again one has to ask, would it get made now? Could be seen as misogynist, despite the fact it is clearly sending up archaic misogyny

    https://twitter.com/HarryEnfield6/status/1481935300549136387?s=20
    How much of Little Britain would be made today, only a decade and a half after the BBC first showed it?
    A lot of it shouldn't have been made then. Take out the derivative content, the tiresomely repetitive and the cruel but not amusing and there is very little left.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Scott_xP said:

    In fairness, it's *possible* that a lot of these voters might move back to supporting the government if Gavin Williamson got a knighthood.

    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1482761706006847491

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1482739732723515396

    If Gavin Williamson and Nick Gibb (the latter in particular) are knighted for the wasteland they have left in education I will not be responsible for my actions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    OK.

    I can assure you that they make a decent amount of money.

    Average YouTube CPMs in Germany are close to $40. Now, UK and US are about $13, but let's simplify and say it's $10 CPM.

    So, showing your advert to someone on YouTube costs a cent. Now, you don't get an advert shown on every video, and there are decently high skip rates. But even so, it probably averages 0.6-0.8 cents per view in advertising.

    Of this, the creator gets roughly half, and YouTube gets half.

    So, an *average* channel is probably 0.3 cents per view to the creator. If you create business and finance content, that has older, richer viewers, it might be north of a cent (my channel was just under a cent a view to me). Conversely, if you target at toddlers and young kids, it might be more like 0.05 cents.

    But let's go with 0.3 cents per view. (And that's before you get onto channel sponsors and the like.)

    If you produce two videos a week, and they have have two million views each, that's four million views a week, 16 million per month, and 200 million per year. That's just under $1m a year. Before sponsorships and product placement and Patreon and the like, which probably add about 50% to that.

    I reckoned that to earn a decent living with my YouTube channel, I needed to produce a video a week, with one million views. I didn't get there (I got diverted into starting an insurance company), but I did produce a couple of videos that had 200,000+ views.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,146
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Original strain of Covid, or origanal strain of omicron? If the former, no worries. I seriously doubt it’s the latter, as there hasn’t been time.
    So no, don’t stress.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/07/scientists-find-stealth-version-of-omicron-not-identifiable-with-pcr-test-covid-variant

    Known since early December

    It is not undetectable by PCR, it is merely impossible to identify as Omicron Vs delta by PCR. Irrelevant as e know everything is Omicron now anyway

    Don't like the sound of plus virulent. Of all the things I am right about the one I least want to say I told you so, is that the theory that it gets more benign with every wave is baloney
    Thanks for that doc link. It is safe to say, assuming that document portrays events as they happened, that animals were saved at the expense of humans and that non at-risk humans who worked for an animal charity were saved at the expense of at-risk humans.

    Whoever was responsible for or justifies this is beneath contempt.
    Hmm do you see the animal charity chaps as to blame? It was arguably not in principle unreasonable to ask*; it was up to the Gmt to allocate priorities.

    *Though misguided/tactless/optimistic/imprudent/etc in reality ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    Production values aren't everything of course, plenty of excellently produced garbage out there, but just in terms of profile, slickness of operation and spectacle, it does seem like the areas the BBC and smaller operators can compete will be much reduced.
    The problem is that as the likes of the Indy and the Telegraph pointed out about the Around the World in 80 days, even their bigger budget shows now looks really cheap, compared to what is the norm on these big streaming services.

    It is supposed to be a jaunt around the world, instead they shot a load of episodes on the same street in Romania.

    The bar has been raised so much now. We now expect movie quality production from the big budget Netflix et al. shows.
    They have even raised the bar for cheap television too. Look at some of the recent comedy specials on Netflix, not from a content point of view, but from a production point of view.

    Clearly a lot of attention to detail for a production which, Dave Chapelle apart, they’re generally only paying six figures for the finished programme.
    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.
    Because currently we have to pay for it to watch any live tv and the BBC themselves try to tell everybody they are as good as the competition all for a few quid a week. And ultimately they are in competition for our eyeballs.

    And increasingly it is clear things like their news and sport coverage isn't actually very good. They have had a piss poor pandemic, constantly getting simple things wrong time and time again. We know this, because we can simply find out this information via other people on the internet, and in as stepped the likes of Dr Campbell who have built a very large viewership explaining this to the masses.

    And the world with the internet is going to a model of specialised knowledge e.g. The Athletic is an infinity better product than BBC Sport website.
    Yes the Athletic is far superior to the rubbish churned out on BBC sport ( which is now half sport /half "human interest " fluff)
    Bought by a media group so expect it to regress quite sharply over the next couple of years.
    That is a big concern of mine. They say it will be run independently, but we will see. The whole reason it is good is it has taken a different approach to the big media groups i.e. here are a load of articles on really detailed analysis of a match last week, or here is an indepth profile of somebody you never heard of, that has a really niche job in the industry that you never knew about but is crucial to the state of the art way that sport operates.

    Some of the people they have even on the podcasts are fascinating. They have had a show about the business of sport. They have had people form those who deal with when clubs go into administration, to those that act as middle men when buying, to Mesut Ozil agent talking about the world of agents.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC is materially incapable of investing the same $10-12bn per year that the big three are pumping into TV show production and that's because it is limited by the licence fee and public funding model. The BBC could be a global powerhouse of TV production but it's not. That's because it can't raise the necessary money and invest in production houses, in house production and it can't cut the waste of having 17 replications of duties.

    It may be worth reminding people that the first season of the upcoming Lord of the Rings series on Amazon will cost Amazon more money (£340 M + £182 M for rights) than the entire BBC spends on drama in a year (£289 M for 2021).
    I almost hope it is terrible as having sunk so much into it that would be hilarious.
    The streaming companies have so much money it is insane

    Apple TV casually dropped $45 million on one sci fi series, Foundation

    Amazon Prime spent $80 million on the first season of The Wheel of Time. It hasn't done very well, meh, fuck it, make something else

    One season of The Crown costs Netflix about $120 million

    The Marvel series Hawkeye costs $25 million for EACH EPISODE - same as Wandavision and Loki

    How can the BBC hope to compete with this?

    Production values aren't everything of course, plenty of excellently produced garbage out there, but just in terms of profile, slickness of operation and spectacle, it does seem like the areas the BBC and smaller operators can compete will be much reduced.
    The problem is that as the likes of the Indy and the Telegraph pointed out about the Around the World in 80 days, even their bigger budget shows now looks really cheap, compared to what is the norm on these big streaming services.

    It is supposed to be a jaunt around the world, instead they shot a load of episodes on the same street in Romania.

    The bar has been raised so much now. We now expect movie quality production from the big budget Netflix et al. shows.
    They have even raised the bar for cheap television too. Look at some of the recent comedy specials on Netflix, not from a content point of view, but from a production point of view.

    Clearly a lot of attention to detail for a production which, Dave Chapelle apart, they’re generally only paying six figures for the finished programme.
    Off Topic

    I'm not sure why we have to compare the BBC with Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. The BBC is a platform designed for UK consumption and has to include all areas of the UK in programming. It also has to cover News and Current affaires impartially and diversely. It also has to provide local news and religious programmes and many others I ahve forgotten. You tell me any of the others that have to do that.
    Because currently we have to pay for it to watch any live tv and the BBC themselves try to tell everybody they are as good as the competition all for a few quid a week. And ultimately they are in competition for our eyeballs.

    And increasingly it is clear things like their news and sport coverage isn't actually very good. They have had a piss poor pandemic, constantly getting simple things wrong time and time again. We know this, because we can simply find out this information via other people on the internet, and in as stepped the likes of Dr Campbell who have built a very large viewership explaining this to the masses.

    And the world with the internet is going to a model of specialised knowledge e.g. The Athletic is an infinity better product than BBC Sport website.
    Yes the Athletic is far superior to the rubbish churned out on BBC sport ( which is now half sport /half "human interest " fluff)
    Bought by a media group so expect it to regress quite sharply over the next couple of years.
    Hardly bought by the New York Times who know how to run a subscription service as they’ve managed to transition from paper to online in a way no other US paper have
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    It is more likely than not that there will be a new variant eventually. More measures will be needed, right up to lockdowns.

    But that is actually a good reason to remove the current measures now, and restore complete freedom. You can't keep people under permanent restrictions under expensive biosurveillance in anticipation of something that may not actually happen; that is just madness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    edited January 2022

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Yes:

    #Israël/Covid: apparition d'un sous-variant d'Omicron potentiellement plus virulent et non détectable par test PCR
    ► Détails avec Joanna Castel
    Translated from French by
    #Israël / Covid: appearance of a potentially more virulent Omicron sub-variant not detectable by PCR test
    ► Details with Joanna Castel


    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_FR/status/1482716087313735683?s=20


    20 cases of Omicron sub-variant BA2 found in Israel – report | The Times of Israel. They just keep coming. This virus just mutates so fast. We need to solve from that premise starting today.

    https://twitter.com/Brooksie1Jenn/status/1482726208387309568?s=20


    Denmark:


    Timmy Guevara☣
    @TMYG168
    ·
    21h
    Replying to
    @DrTonyLeachon
    maybe new set of symptoms to come Omicron sub variant BA2(21L) seems to be outcompeting original Omicron what are the implications?


    https://twitter.com/TMYG168/status/1482429244638900230?s=20
    Thanks, but still looks like early days in terms of hard info.
    Very early. But Denmark is a little troubling

    1/2
    After the news from #Denmark yesterday with the unexpected double-peak in #Covid19 cases linked to an #Omicron variant, I wonder if #Norway is also suffering from #BA2 (aka #21L)

    New infections rise again today to 8,477 (+60%)
    But hospital and ICU numbers still falling.


    https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1482658598694137856?s=20


    It seems you can easily catch this form of Omicron twice (or more?)

    Question is: how bad is it the 2nd or 3rd time around?
    Are you genuinely messing your kecks every single time someone on Twitter starts a variant panic?

    They're going to keep happening for years. You'll end up having some sort of breakdown.
    Thing is @leon is alone in his flat, bored, too early to start the wine and is raking Twatter for anything vaguely scary to pass round the camp fire.
    It’s why we love him...
    lol. That's not a bad description of what I'm doing

    HOWEVER there is, genuinely, some agitating evidence, albeit embryonic

    Look at cases in Israel (where they have this new variant: Omicron FFS). Absolutely shooting through the roof. A vertical climb. Is it me or is this climb - POSSIBLY - even sharper than the spike you get with Omicron Classic? They've gone from 5,000 cases at the end of December 2021 to 55,000 cases yesterday

    That might indicate the presence of an even more transmissible form of Omicron, ie Omicron FFS, also able to evade immunity from prior infection. Of course we cannot know yet, especially if, as is rumoured Omicron FFS can evade PCR tests. How would we even know if it is out there?


    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/





  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    OK.

    I can assure you that they make a decent amount of money.

    Average YouTube CPMs in Germany are close to $40. Now, UK and US are about $13, but let's simplify and say it's $10 CPM.

    So, showing your advert to someone on YouTube costs a cent. Now, you don't get an advert shown on every video, and there are decently high skip rates. But even so, it probably averages 0.6-0.8 cents per view in advertising.

    Of this, the creator gets roughly half, and YouTube gets half.

    So, an *average* channel is probably 0.3 cents per view to the creator. If you create business and finance content, that has older, richer viewers, it might be north of a cent (my channel was just under a cent a view to me). Conversely, if you target at toddlers and young kids, it might be more like 0.05 cents.

    But let's go with 0.3 cents per view. (And that's before you get onto channel sponsors and the like.)

    If you produce two videos a week, and they have have two million views each, that's four million views a week, 16 million per month, and 200 million per year. That's just under $1m a year. Before sponsorships and product placement and Patreon and the like, which probably add about 50% to that.

    I reckoned that to earn a decent living with my YouTube channel, I needed to produce a video a week, with one million views. I didn't get there (I got diverted into starting an insurance company), but I did produce a couple of videos that had 200,000+ views.
    Aiui money per advert varies with the subject so (for instance) cars and money pay more than books. Can't remember where I heard it though.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Interesting thread on focus group opinions - ends with

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1482739732723515396

    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    ·
    1h
    - For most, cover-up rather than the deed itself has done the most damage to Boris' personal brand.

    This means the current defence (blame others / work party excuse) is unlikely to work with the public - and may even make things worse. (18/18)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    So hushed up it’s in the UKHSA report:

    BA.2 sub-lineage
    As of January 10 2022, 53 sequences of the BA.2 sub-lineage of Omicron had been identified in the United Kingdom.

    This sub-lineage, which was designated by Pangolin on 6 December 2021, does not have the spike gene deletion at 69-70 that causes S-gene target failure (SGTF), which has previously been used as a proxy to detect cases of Omicron. UKHSA are continuing to monitor data on the BA.2 sub-lineage closely.



    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-variants-identified-in-the-uk
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of TV (and video game) production values, I think it is missed just how easy (and cheap) it is for ordinary people to make content that would be the remit of big teams of skilled professionals.

    Look at Real Engineering or Veritasium - they are absolutely brilliant science and engineering documentary channels, that are produced by a handful of people.

    The same is true of video games. Thanks to engines like Unity, one person (Lucas Pope) was able to produce The Return of the Obra Dinn, one of the very best video games of the last five years.

    The problem the BBC has is that it's stuck in the middle: it's neither producing lots of fantastic, low cost, content; nor does it have the budget to spend on mega one-offs.

    Real engineering and Veritasium do produce some really good niche documentaries and I am subscribed to both of them, but they barely make any money and rely a lot on patreon etc, i.e. gifts from viewers. They can survive because of world wide access and world wide gifts.

    Are you suggesting that BBC goes worldwide with advertising and subscription? Also providing their local programmes etc?

    If so, I would be happy to subscribe. the monthly fee would be a whole lot less.
    How do you know Veritasium barely makes money? I would argue strongly that isn't true. 1.5 billion views is a lot of income from YouTube ads (and science stuff seems to pay good CRM), but they also have sponsored videos that these days can pay a lot. Patreon is often just another way to make money, but saying support us and you get extras.

    There are plenty of YouTubers who have shown their income from channels with much smaller audience, and although different CRMs across genres etc, 100m videos a year, you are making a decent living from YouTube ads alone.
    According to a google search, approx £2000 per million views on a youtube video on average, hence the world wide access required to achieve those views. Out of that you need to employ a team to research, write, film, and edit.
    Worth remembering that averages can be pretty misleading: a 10 minute video will pretty much always get an advert, while a one minute one won't. And if your video is video game streaming of the kind my 11 year son enjoys, then the value of advertising there is probably one-fiftieth of showing me something.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Er, WTF is this? Should I be worried? A new Omicron variant?


    "A new strain of Omicron (BA2) is emerging in Europe.

    It is re-infecting those who were already infected with the original strain.

    Take away message; The virus will not become endemic

    We will have one wave of infection after the other

    FYI
    @MarkMcGowanMP

    @CHO_WAHealth

    #auspol"

    https://twitter.com/LettersfromTim/status/1482262854078443522?s=20

    Any sources beyond a complete random on Twitter?
    Also, isn't one wave of infection after another pretty much the very definition of endemic?

    And each wave primes our immune system more, so that it takes the virus on earlier and earlier each time?
    Endemic means steady state (R0 of 1 among non immune population)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemic_(epidemiology)
    So, it's incorrect to say that the common cold is endemic?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Leon.

    A word to the wise.

    Get off Twitter, go to the pub.

    Chill out man, you are going to drive yourself mad.
This discussion has been closed.