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The worst political bet on the market today? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 711

    If Paddy Power are offering 2/1 on a re-united Korea in the next two years, what are they offering on a united Ireland in the same timeframe?

    5/1 on a Vote on Irish Unification to pass before Jan 1st 2030

    https://www.paddypower.com/politics/irish-politics
    That's worth a flutter
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    Top trolling. Triggered by the word "England"? There were a number of comments when it emerged.
    Unfortunately quite a few of them involved doubting the veracity of Azeem Rafiq's testimony.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    Cf Boris Johnson: thousands of Conservatives did try to warn the party about the man’s character flaws. What happened? The party forced out the messengers and appointed the man sacked from several high profile jobs for mendacity.
    That's clearly anti-English racism. I might as well accuse the the Scots of being ungenerous with their money.

    The SOP in the Civil Service is of course, find the most junior person involved and scapegoat them.
    It’s certainly nationalist stereotyping, no,different to Alan Partridge when he said all French people say ‘hoh-heh-ohh’ and his TV show from France had a man with a beret holding a baguette wearing a black and white hooped jumper.

    I doubt it’s out and out racism more xenophobic.
    Stuart England bashes habitually, in the same fashion as HYUFD parrots whatever the Tory leadership's line is this morning. It's just what they do.

    Of course, given that we don't actually know either of these people, we have no idea how much of this is based on deep-rooted biases and how much is just done to provoke a response. A work colleague of mine once admitted that he sometimes went on social media, when bored, drunk or both, to join conversations full of very earnest far left types and troll them. It was done for (low quality) entertainment and to provoke a response.

    I don't know if either the England bashing or the Tory shilling is done out of conviction or to get people to bite, but it tells us nothing useful regardless.
    If @HYUFD's Tory shilling isn't out of conviction he's certainly got me fooled.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited January 15
    ....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,524
    Scott_xP said:
    Why did Downing Street staff try and follow the rules around his isolation when they were having lockdown breaking parties every friday by latest accounts?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,153
    On thread: to extrapolate the specific to the general: avoid Paddy Power publicity bets.

    Off thread 'Plan B restrictions to be dropped as Johnson plans to fight back'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/plan-b-restrictions-scrapped-boris-johnson-plots-fightback/

    Doing something you said you were going to do anyway, to the timetable you were planning to do anyway, but not fully, is a crap fightback. He's actually managing to undershorts expectations - another 'two steps tighter, one step looser'.
    Plan B is pointless theatre, and the peak has passed. Why continue with it? Why not just drop it all, now? Makes neither epidemiological nor political sense.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited January 15

    Scott_xP said:
    Why did Downing Street staff try and follow the rules around his isolation when they were having lockdown breaking parties every friday by latest accounts?
    I wondered that. I guess some of the office staff were more responsible than others.

    Or that they only tried to follow the rules when sober!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    Top trolling. Triggered by the word "England"? There were a number of comments when it emerged.
    The racism in cricket story was all over the media again a couple of days ago. Due to MPs no less threatening to withdraw millions in funding to the sport. Comments about that on PB? Zilch. Only cricket comment I saw was from DavidL (a lawyer) about the Ashes. Racism is clearly not a high priority around here.
    Cricket reflects society. Our society is still racist in places, but sadly that’s partly human nature. Us vs them. Right vs left. Native vs outsider.
    In my 35 years plus of playing club cricket I have seen nothing racist, and would hope most of my fellow players are not racist.
    What I have seen is enormous levels of banter. About EVERYTHING. Player has put on a bit of weight. Gets banter. Get out with a stupid shot. Mockery. Etc etc etc.
    I am not saying that people perceiving comments to/about them were mistaking banter for something else. But I am suggesting the the culture of this land is mocking and joking of your mates.
    Rafiiq also engaged in that, as he openly admitted.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Cookie said:

    On thread: to extrapolate the specific to the general: avoid Paddy Power publicity bets.

    Off thread 'Plan B restrictions to be dropped as Johnson plans to fight back'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/plan-b-restrictions-scrapped-boris-johnson-plots-fightback/

    Doing something you said you were going to do anyway, to the timetable you were planning to do anyway, but not fully, is a crap fightback. He's actually managing to undershorts expectations - another 'two steps tighter, one step looser'.
    Plan B is pointless theatre, and the peak has passed. Why continue with it? Why not just drop it all, now? Makes neither epidemiological nor political sense.

    Wait, why are we talking about tighter undershorts?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    Top trolling. Triggered by the word "England"? There were a number of comments when it emerged.
    Unfortunately quite a few of them involved doubting the veracity of Azeem Rafiq's testimony.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    Cf Boris Johnson: thousands of Conservatives did try to warn the party about the man’s character flaws. What happened? The party forced out the messengers and appointed the man sacked from several high profile jobs for mendacity.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    It happens everywhere - seen it in France, Germany, Ireland, US, Canada....

    In fact, the number of times that shooting the messenger isn't the offhand response of the Big Boss... hmm I'm trying to think.

    I've tried introducing Just Culture in a few places. The reactions are interesting... "But if we don't have someone to lynch, how can we prove we are dealing with the issue?"
    Just culture makes a huge difference to an organisation, once everyone stops trying to scapegoat those who admit mistakes. They way to prove they’re dealing with an issue, by refining processes and systems to prevent the same mistake happening again.

    People don’t get fired for honest mistakes in high-performing industries such as F1 teams, airlines and nuclear power plants, which is why we see reducing numbers of accidents in these industries over time.
    Once upon a time ..... how long ago it seems now ..... I was part of a group trying to make sure that such a culture was to be found in the NHS.

    One of the questions I still haven't resolved in my own mind is, when an NHS Trust, or similar is 'fined', who pays? It's clearly not the people at the top who, generally speaking move on somewhere else.
    I imagine that the public sector is about as far away from a just culture as it’s possible to get - although Mrs @Cyclefree will no doubt say that banks are the same - with everyone looking to their next move and plotting against their colleagues, mistakes resulting in punishment therefore more likely to be covered up until they become too serious, and the senior managers apparently not responsible for the culture, appearing in another similar job quickly even when they are fired for the most egregious offences.
    When Trusts were brought into the NHS there were occasional arguments as to whether staff should talk about their achievements at conferences..... because 'another Trust might steal a march on us'. My experience was that health professionals were willing, and indeed anxious, to discuss developments, in order that they might learn from the opinions and experience of others.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    Cookie said:

    On thread: to extrapolate the specific to the general: avoid Paddy Power publicity bets.

    Off thread 'Plan B restrictions to be dropped as Johnson plans to fight back'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/plan-b-restrictions-scrapped-boris-johnson-plots-fightback/

    Doing something you said you were going to do anyway, to the timetable you were planning to do anyway, but not fully, is a crap fightback. He's actually managing to undershorts expectations - another 'two steps tighter, one step looser'.
    Plan B is pointless theatre, and the peak has passed. Why continue with it? Why not just drop it all, now? Makes neither epidemiological nor political sense.

    yes they need to go now , even if all it saves me is dagger looks from covid obsessives when i go shopping without a mask.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 711
    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,069
    I must confess that I am surprised that there is still a drinking culture in the office in places like No 10. 35 years ago when we were wining and dining bank managers and building society managers at lunch time wine was consumed in significant quantities but over the 90s the wine was increasingly untouched to the point it was no longer put out.

    It perhaps explains to some degree why more alarm bells did not right and why there is still some mutual incomprehension between the vast majority who are no longer a part of that culture and those who still are.

    Having said that my wife was on a bus in Lochee yesterday (a not particularly salubrious part of Dundee if you can imagine such a thing). Two pensioners in front of her. The man asks the lady what she thought of the parties. The reply, "Ach, its a lot of fuss aboot a kerry out." Lochee and No 10, so much in common.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 711
    And that's another thing about the situation. We shouldn't forget that even before this disgraceful episode on partying, Boris Johnson had already alienated the grass roots with policies straight out of Chairman Mao's little red book.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    last year’s Tory party conference was incredibly revealing. A party drunk on power, with no idea what it wanted. Every fringe I attended felt like people going through the ideological motions. People queued round the block to hear the PM deliver a speech with no policies at all.
    https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1482280295659417603
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    The whole point of sporting endeavour is to discuss the play, the players, and the results. It doesn't mean you are unconcerned about deep-rooted problems in the game. It also doesn't mean you are in favour of racial discrimination because you fail to talk about it all the time.

    What is Scottish cricket doing to investigate institutional racism in the game?
    Excellent whataboutery.
    So do you believe that it is OK for Scottish cricket to be racist, or do you just believe it doesn't exist? By your own argument your failure to talk about it means that you condone it.
    When the MPs were threatening to withdraw money, they were talking about English cricket. Sport is devolved in Scotland, Wales and N Ireland. I’m not aware of their legislatures threatening to abandon the game.
    Wales? You sure mr expert? England and Wales cricket is one body.
    But you wouldn’t know that as you know nothing about cricket and are just trying to wind people up. Good luck Duartstickson
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    Top trolling. Triggered by the word "England"? There were a number of comments when it emerged.
    Unfortunately quite a few of them involved doubting the veracity of Azeem Rafiq's testimony.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    Cf Boris Johnson: thousands of Conservatives did try to warn the party about the man’s character flaws. What happened? The party forced out the messengers and appointed the man sacked from several high profile jobs for mendacity.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    It happens everywhere - seen it in France, Germany, Ireland, US, Canada....

    In fact, the number of times that shooting the messenger isn't the offhand response of the Big Boss... hmm I'm trying to think.

    I've tried introducing Just Culture in a few places. The reactions are interesting... "But if we don't have someone to lynch, how can we prove we are dealing with the issue?"
    Just culture makes a huge difference to an organisation, once everyone stops trying to scapegoat those who admit mistakes. They way to prove they’re dealing with an issue, by refining processes and systems to prevent the same mistake happening again.

    People don’t get fired for honest mistakes in high-performing industries such as F1 teams, airlines and nuclear power plants, which is why we see reducing numbers of accidents in these industries over time.
    Speaking of which, I can't image any of those organisations being run with a shambolic pub-office culture like No 10.
    Indeed. The abolute worst environments are going to be industries such as politics and the arts, where the jobs are insecure and short term, although they can pay well, and the power is concentrated with a small number of people. Hence you end up with drinking culture in political capitals, and Hollywood directors still recruiting via the casting couch.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointing from England again. Australia reaching 300.

    Politics is not the only field capable of spotting squirrels.

    Cricket fans should be more concerned by the culture of racism in the sport than how much a team lose a match.

    PB posts recently about Ashes must number thousands
    PB posts about racism in the sport… er…

    Boris Johnson is jealous. If only his PB team were that effective.
    Top trolling. Triggered by the word "England"? There were a number of comments when it emerged.
    Unfortunately quite a few of them involved doubting the veracity of Azeem Rafiq's testimony.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    Cf Boris Johnson: thousands of Conservatives did try to warn the party about the man’s character flaws. What happened? The party forced out the messengers and appointed the man sacked from several high profile jobs for mendacity.
    Standard behaviour in English society: shoot the messenger.

    It happens everywhere - seen it in France, Germany, Ireland, US, Canada....

    In fact, the number of times that shooting the messenger isn't the offhand response of the Big Boss... hmm I'm trying to think.

    I've tried introducing Just Culture in a few places. The reactions are interesting... "But if we don't have someone to lynch, how can we prove we are dealing with the issue?"
    Just culture makes a huge difference to an organisation, once everyone stops trying to scapegoat those who admit mistakes. They way to prove they’re dealing with an issue, by refining processes and systems to prevent the same mistake happening again.

    People don’t get fired for honest mistakes in high-performing industries such as F1 teams, airlines and nuclear power plants, which is why we see reducing numbers of accidents in these industries over time.
    Once upon a time ..... how long ago it seems now ..... I was part of a group trying to make sure that such a culture was to be found in the NHS.

    One of the questions I still haven't resolved in my own mind is, when an NHS Trust, or similar is 'fined', who pays? It's clearly not the people at the top who, generally speaking move on somewhere else.
    I imagine that the public sector is about as far away from a just culture as it’s possible to get - although Mrs @Cyclefree will no doubt say that banks are the same - with everyone looking to their next move and plotting against their colleagues, mistakes resulting in punishment therefore more likely to be covered up until they become too serious, and the senior managers apparently not responsible for the culture, appearing in another similar job quickly even when they are fired for the most egregious offences.
    When Trusts were brought into the NHS there were occasional arguments as to whether staff should talk about their achievements at conferences..... because 'another Trust might steal a march on us'. My experience was that health professionals were willing, and indeed anxious, to discuss developments, in order that they might learn from the opinions and experience of others.
    my experience of working in not for profit organisations that have other not for profit organisations doing the same thing (whether in the public sector or charity/membership sector) is that nobody is that fussed about being competitive and hence willing to work together where needed etc. That said I think the whole idea of an organisation having a certain "culture " and "values" is all a bit pompous and non job creating. Its also treating adult staff as kids
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 711
    Does anyone know what, if any, opinion polls are due out this evening?
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Yep - Rishi needs to be in No 10 before May arrives because a lot of people are going to look at their reduced pay pockets, the new gas bill and increased council tax bill and panic.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited January 15
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Because Newsnight picked his seat for their voxpop last night!

    And interviewed one of his former Tory councillors who has resigned the party in protest.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 592

    IanB2 said:

    darkage said:

    I found the discussion about drinking in the office yesterday interesting. I thought it was pretty normal to have drinks in the office in a social context in the evenings. Maybe however this is actually a London/big city thing, the exception not the rule.

    I do not recall that, except for one time. But it was a feature of Yes, Minister that drinks were kept openly in the office. And of course the House of Commons has subsidised bars.
    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-catering/transparency/catering-services-opening-times-and-access---jul-2021.pdf
    That was then, though.

    Many large companies nowadays have ‘no alcohol on duty’ rules, which includes a drink out at lunchtime as well as in the office.
    I've worked in startups - where the rule seemed to be a beer or 2 (bottles) if you are working late (past 8pm) along with the free pizza/takeaway.

    All the bigger outfits seem to have "Open containers in the office = sacking" rules in the contracts, these days
    I worked for a small engineering company, which (more by luck than judgement) had landed a contract with a major car company for some very complex key components for a prestigious project undertaken by their special vehicles division.

    Things didn't go particularly well, and the first production component was booked to leave on a Monday morning, and was only a pile of unfinished parts on Friday morning. We had the customers quality engineer with us, and to give him his due, he stayed and helped us into the small hours.

    About 8pm I took an order for some chips, and returned with the chips for everyone plus two slabs of Guinness. The quality engineer's face was a picture, I think that was almost certainly a sacking offence in their plant! He did have a can mind you...
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Oh good. Media commentary from the man in the Sue Barker wig. Just what we were missing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088
    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Mmmm... well, to escape the blame he needs to decide which it is: the Chancellor makes the rules therefore it's their fault or as Chancellor my hands were tied by the PM's instruction.

    Either way he's rightly going to cop a share of the blame.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    The wine cooler, wine time Fridays and staff sleeping off hangovers on sofas in No 10

    Times long read on what one insider described as a ‘culture of 3am sessions’ in Downing Street


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06aa6e6e-7569-11ec-89e9-22d3d9c31ba2?shareToken=3cebdc8cc2304f33d21ac75b102388ac
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,069
    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Couple of fun House of Commons clips here.

    1. Here’s Matt Hancock explaining why pubs have to shut at 10. Because “late at night” (ie when drunk) people end up “closer together” and so spread the virus more.


    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1482284344844640258/video/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    2. Here’s Boris Johnson, when asked specifically about people rushing to the shops at 10pm to “stock up with booze”, he says people must “exercise common sense and follow the guidance.”

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1482284676135981062/video/1
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Mmmm... well, to escape the blame he needs to decide which it is: the Chancellor makes the rules therefore it's their fault or as Chancellor my hands were tied by the PM's instruction.

    Either way he's rightly going to cop a share of the blame.
    Better to be PM for half a term than never.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    edited January 15
    theProle said:

    IanB2 said:

    darkage said:

    I found the discussion about drinking in the office yesterday interesting. I thought it was pretty normal to have drinks in the office in a social context in the evenings. Maybe however this is actually a London/big city thing, the exception not the rule.

    I do not recall that, except for one time. But it was a feature of Yes, Minister that drinks were kept openly in the office. And of course the House of Commons has subsidised bars.
    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-catering/transparency/catering-services-opening-times-and-access---jul-2021.pdf
    That was then, though.

    Many large companies nowadays have ‘no alcohol on duty’ rules, which includes a drink out at lunchtime as well as in the office.
    I've worked in startups - where the rule seemed to be a beer or 2 (bottles) if you are working late (past 8pm) along with the free pizza/takeaway.

    All the bigger outfits seem to have "Open containers in the office = sacking" rules in the contracts, these days
    I worked for a small engineering company, which (more by luck than judgement) had landed a contract with a major car company for some very complex key components for a prestigious project undertaken by their special vehicles division.

    Things didn't go particularly well, and the first production component was booked to leave on a Monday morning, and was only a pile of unfinished parts on Friday morning. We had the customers quality engineer with us, and to give him his due, he stayed and helped us into the small hours.

    About 8pm I took an order for some chips, and returned with the chips for everyone plus two slabs of Guinness. The quality engineer's face was a picture, I think that was almost certainly a sacking offence in their plant! He did have a can mind you...
    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break them at some point and the culprits are usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite if you dont . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty and wankery about having "values " or "culture" -
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    edited January 15
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,257
    Sandpit said:



    People don’t get fired for honest mistakes in high-performing industries such as F1 teams, airlines and nuclear power plants, which is why we see reducing numbers of accidents in these industries over time.

    Emirates sacked all four crew on the spot after the 777 late rotation incident last December.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    When you're 152/6 on a pitch with uneven bounce under the lights...it's maybe not quite so easy.

    Still the wrong shot, mind.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073
    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Is Drakeford going to let a full crowd into the Arms Park for the 6 Nations?
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    I never knew that. What a clown.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088
    I was pondering the parallels between the Global Financial Crisis and Covid.

    In both cases it could be argued they were:

    - Not of the government's making but...
    - ...the government could have been better prepared and/or had actively made our position worse by its prior actions.
    - The government got a number of things right.
    - Nevertheless people still blame the government and punish(ed) it in the polls.

    Two fundamental differences:
    - The GFC had a long-lasting drag on the economy (made worse by austerity imo but others disagree of course).
    - With Covid the government's behaviour (parties, PHE contracts, etc.) has become a major issue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Speaking of unnecessary measures, can we now just abandon face masks in schools? They've more or less abandoned themselves as far as I can see anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,302
    I'm surprised this story hasn't made as many waves.

    A minister whose baby twins died during the pandemic says Boris Johnson "needs to change his ways", following a string of revelations about drinks parties at No 10 during lockdown.

    Guy Opperman said that in May 2020 - when the PM attended a garden party - he could not visit his wife and sons in hospital due to Covid rules.

    His twins Rafe and Teddy died shortly afterwards.

    But Mr Opperman told the BBC that Boris Johnson should stay in his post


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60004098
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,069
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    150 only applies in matches lasting 3 or 4 days. The pretense is that this is down for 5 so it would have been 200. If that was his thinking he's an idiot. Maybe he should be in politics?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    edited January 15
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    I never knew that. What a clown.
    That's the reason why electrified commuter trains on the Chase Line run at 45mph when the line is engineered for 75mph.

    What's doubly annoying is that only about 50 yards of it is in his constituency.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Yep - Rishi needs to be in No 10 before May arrives because a lot of people are going to look at their reduced pay pockets, the new gas bill and increased council tax bill and panic.
    In April mobile phone and broadband contracts increase. These are typically RPi plus 3.9%.thats the start of the big squeeze.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    Scott_xP said:

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
    well yes I know but using it as a point for bosses who make rules for workplaces.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607

    I was pondering the parallels between the Global Financial Crisis and Covid.

    In both cases it could be argued they were:

    - Not of the government's making but...
    - ...the government could have been better prepared and/or had actively made our position worse by its prior actions.
    - The government got a number of things right.
    - Nevertheless people still blame the government and punish(ed) it in the polls.

    Two fundamental differences:
    - The GFC had a long-lasting drag on the economy (made worse by austerity imo but others disagree of course).
    - With Covid the government's behaviour (parties, PHE contracts, etc.) has become a major issue.

    This is an interesting thread from Theresa May’s former Chief of Staff but strangely understates public reaction to this affair. The damage is now done; it’s something almost everyone ‘knows’. It’s the values equivalent of Black Wednesday.

    https://twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1482104657501638661
    https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1482102878034890752
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    150 only applies in matches lasting 3 or 4 days. The pretense is that this is down for 5 so it would have been 200. If that was his thinking he's an idiot. Maybe he should be in politics?
    I was just checking to see if anyone was awake, honest...
  • Carnyx said:

    Currently on my way to Holy Island in Northumberland. I’ll bring you all back some mead.

    Have a nice time. There's quite a nice walk out past the castle and limekiln and widdershins northabout past the dunes and lake.
    And watch the tide tables.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,524
    Alistair King
    @Alistair_King
    My cousin’s husband is a vicar in a deprived area of Brexit-supporting Doncaster.

    He has a large flock and when he posts anything against the government, he usually gets a torrent of pro-Johnson replies; a crank outlier aside, his thoughts last night drew pure anger for Johnson.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    This is vg by @CamCavendish on the central dilemma for the Tories. The party and most of its leading figures are now so tainted by association with Boris Johnson it is not clear who could claim the mantle of integrity to replace him. https://on.ft.com/31YCT2Z via @FT https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1482287036518354945/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975

    Alistair King
    @Alistair_King
    My cousin’s husband is a vicar in a deprived area of Brexit-supporting Doncaster.

    He has a large flock and when he posts anything against the government, he usually gets a torrent of pro-Johnson replies; a crank outlier aside, his thoughts last night drew pure anger for Johnson.

    Can I ask you to link properly to tweets? No point in just giving the @ bit because vanilla parses those as vanilla usernames

    I only ask because the tweets you post are usually interesting
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088

    Scott_xP said:

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
    well yes I know but using it as a point for bosses who make rules for workplaces.
    There is of course a common sense place between all out puritanical and treating the office like an open-all-hours free-vend pub.

    In my 40 years working life the successful workplaces were always reasonably tidy and had some clear dos and don'ts. The use of separate rest and breakout areas away from the main working areas was a helpful ploy, giving people a place to take break, celebrate events etc.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,869
    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321

    I was pondering the parallels between the Global Financial Crisis and Covid.

    In both cases it could be argued they were:

    - Not of the government's making but...
    - ...the government could have been better prepared and/or had actively made our position worse by its prior actions.
    - The government got a number of things right.
    - Nevertheless people still blame the government and punish(ed) it in the polls.

    Two fundamental differences:
    - The GFC had a long-lasting drag on the economy (made worse by austerity imo but others disagree of course).
    - With Covid the government's behaviour (parties, PHE contracts, etc.) has become a major issue.

    The pandemic will surely have a long lasting economic effect!

    Most obviously, the extra debt burden that it has inflicted across the world.

    Plus the challenge of adapting to a breakpoint, for some people, in behaviour and life choices.

    Plus the inflationary spike (or return to a longer spell of inflation, take your choice) created by supply and labour shortages, and the consequential retrenchment as consumers react to tighter finances (and once those with one-off windfalls from lockdown savings have spent them out).

    On a historical perspective, major pandemics can be seen as break points that eventually led to significant economic and social changes. Ok, this time we didn't see millions of deaths of economically active people, but there'll still be effects down the line, including some we don't yet perceive.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    Omnium said:

    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.

    No, Dominic C says pass holders aren't checked at all
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Yep - Rishi needs to be in No 10 before May arrives because a lot of people are going to look at their reduced pay pockets, the new gas bill and increased council tax bill and panic.
    In April mobile phone and broadband contracts increase. These are typically RPi plus 3.9%.thats the start of the big squeeze.
    That's based in January RPI IIRC so the increases are going to be 10%ish?

    Mind you my energy costs have already gone up by 90% as the fixed deal company I was with went bust and I am now on British Gas's, er... best offer.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321

    Carnyx said:

    Currently on my way to Holy Island in Northumberland. I’ll bring you all back some mead.

    Have a nice time. There's quite a nice walk out past the castle and limekiln and widdershins northabout past the dunes and lake.
    And watch the tide tables.

    and watch the horizon for approaching ships?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,088
    IanB2 said:

    I was pondering the parallels between the Global Financial Crisis and Covid.

    In both cases it could be argued they were:

    - Not of the government's making but...
    - ...the government could have been better prepared and/or had actively made our position worse by its prior actions.
    - The government got a number of things right.
    - Nevertheless people still blame the government and punish(ed) it in the polls.

    Two fundamental differences:
    - The GFC had a long-lasting drag on the economy (made worse by austerity imo but others disagree of course).
    - With Covid the government's behaviour (parties, PHE contracts, etc.) has become a major issue.

    The pandemic will surely have a long lasting economic effect!

    Most obviously, the extra debt burden that it has inflicted across the world.

    Plus the challenge of adapting to a breakpoint, for some people, in behaviour and life choices.

    Plus the inflationary spike (or return to a longer spell of inflation, take your choice) created by supply and labour shortages, and the consequential retrenchment as consumers react to tighter finances (and once those with one-off windfalls from lockdown savings have spent them out).

    On a historical perspective, major pandemics can be seen as break points that eventually led to significant economic and social changes. Ok, this time we didn't see millions of deaths of economically active people, but there'll still be effects down the line, including some we don't yet perceive.
    Yes - you're right!

    I was just thinking of GDP and the bounce-back we are seeing. But the debt and inflation aren't going away anytime soon.

    Strike that from the list of differences!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    There are such elements, yes, but the bigger theme re the media and Johnson is the lack of scrutiny. He's been cut a great deal of slack. Why this has now changed, and quite suddenly, is an interesting question.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Wont be long until Boris emerges from his bunker and starts pinning Brexit medals on Darren Grimes and other Brexit youth extolling them to save the Brexit Reich.
    It’s incredible that his colleagues are allowing him to take them down with him.

    https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/1482289421282066432
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710

    Alistair King
    @Alistair_King
    My cousin’s husband is a vicar in a deprived area of Brexit-supporting Doncaster.

    He has a large flock and when he posts anything against the government, he usually gets a torrent of pro-Johnson replies; a crank outlier aside, his thoughts last night drew pure anger for Johnson.

    I do think the repetition of the stories from December has resulted in it actually reaching people and sinking in.

    It will be interesting to see how much further the polling has left to go for the Tory party - I suspect they will be hitting 20-25% at some point this or next week.
  • IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Currently on my way to Holy Island in Northumberland. I’ll bring you all back some mead.

    Have a nice time. There's quite a nice walk out past the castle and limekiln and widdershins northabout past the dunes and lake.
    And watch the tide tables.

    and watch the horizon for approaching ships?
    You cannot see the sea horizon from the causeway
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,162
    edited January 15
    It doesn't really matter if there was an already-established drinking culture in No. 10 before the pandemic.

    What matters is that you'd immediately and unquestioningly call a halt to it at the same time you're asking the entire country to forego their work parties and leaving do events and social gatherings.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Over half of @ConHome's panel of Party members want @BorisJohnson to resign now https://bit.ly/3fplPGn
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited January 15
    Scott_xP said:

    I was pondering the parallels between the Global Financial Crisis and Covid.

    In both cases it could be argued they were:

    - Not of the government's making but...
    - ...the government could have been better prepared and/or had actively made our position worse by its prior actions.
    - The government got a number of things right.
    - Nevertheless people still blame the government and punish(ed) it in the polls.

    Two fundamental differences:
    - The GFC had a long-lasting drag on the economy (made worse by austerity imo but others disagree of course).
    - With Covid the government's behaviour (parties, PHE contracts, etc.) has become a major issue.

    This is an interesting thread from Theresa May’s former Chief of Staff but strangely understates public reaction to this affair. The damage is now done; it’s something almost everyone ‘knows’. It’s the values equivalent of Black Wednesday.

    https://twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1482104657501638661
    https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1482102878034890752
    This from Barwell is clearly topical and pertinent:

    Some supporters of the PM have been trying to pin *all* the blame on civil servants. This is *exceptionally* unwise because it encourages counter-briefing against political advisers/the PM . They are effectively creating a circular firing squad


    Barwell finishes with:

    It may be too late now, but his only chance of surviving is a) not to try to blame others, b) to get all the facts out there asap, c) to hug his rivals close and d) to hope the polls show he remains the most popular Conservative in the Red Wall


    Yet: - He won't be able to resist blaming others; it's his modus op and life story - He hates being open and transparent - He hates hugging (or relying upon) his colleagues - the Red Wall is surely already gone!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    Cookie said:

    On thread: to extrapolate the specific to the general: avoid Paddy Power publicity bets.

    Off thread 'Plan B restrictions to be dropped as Johnson plans to fight back'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/plan-b-restrictions-scrapped-boris-johnson-plots-fightback/

    Doing something you said you were going to do anyway, to the timetable you were planning to do anyway, but not fully, is a crap fightback. He's actually managing to undershorts expectations - another 'two steps tighter, one step looser'.
    Plan B is pointless theatre, and the peak has passed. Why continue with it? Why not just drop it all, now? Makes neither epidemiological nor political sense.

    Yes, I have asked this repeatedly. Plan B is really problematic for new biz / client relationships because while-ever it remains in place, lots of organisations (perfectly understandably) follow the guidance and prevent their staff meeting in person.

    And, from a leisure perspective, mask mandates at the theatre and in fashion shopping are a major imposition.

    As you say, why not just bin it now, rather than prolong it for ten more days?
  • Andrew Bridgen very good on Sky
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607

    It doesn't really matter if there was an already-established drinking culture in No. 10 before the pandemic.

    What matters is that you'd immediately and unquestioningly call a halt to it at the same time you're asking the entire country to forego their work parties and leaving do events and social gatherings.

    Especially when you said as much at the despatch box
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,302

    Scott_xP said:

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
    well yes I know but using it as a point for bosses who make rules for workplaces.
    There is of course a common sense place between all out puritanical and treating the office like an open-all-hours free-vend pub.

    In my 40 years working life the successful workplaces were always reasonably tidy and had some clear dos and don'ts. The use of separate rest and breakout areas away from the main working areas was a helpful ploy, giving people a place to take break, celebrate events etc.
    Unfortunately I think there is a trend that you cannot trust people, and so don't give them the chance to abuse any latitude. In some cases that is appropriate, but in others I think it is a bit disproportionate. I'm teetotal and anti social, but it would be a shame if the response, which is likely, to this whole affair is a general crackdown on what in most cases might be a decent culture.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Heathener said:

    I notice some reports that Rishi Sunak is sounding out a move.

    Normally I'd suggest this is unlikely but the more I think about it, the more Sunak's best chance may be over the next few months.

    If he can get out of the Chancellorship before the sh*t really starts hitting the fiscal fan he might be able to blame what's coming on someone else. He might even be able to say it was all Boris Johnson's fault as he was following orders for this socialist high tax, high spend, high debt, high inflation category 5 hurricane that's coming.

    The longer Sunak stays in No. 11 the worse his chances of taking over will be.

    Mmmm... well, to escape the blame he needs to decide which it is: the Chancellor makes the rules therefore it's their fault or as Chancellor my hands were tied by the PM's instruction.

    Either way he's rightly going to cop a share of the blame.
    Exactly. He can't try and claim the credit for furlough and then say the tax increases he imposed are nothing to do with him.

    I don't like Sunak. I admit it is as much because I do not trust anyone who worked at the hedge fund he worked at. But also his politics - insofar as anyone can discern them - do not appear to be relevant today.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    DavidL said:

    I must confess that I am surprised that there is still a drinking culture in the office in places like No 10. 35 years ago when we were wining and dining bank managers and building society managers at lunch time wine was consumed in significant quantities but over the 90s the wine was increasingly untouched to the point it was no longer put out.

    It perhaps explains to some degree why more alarm bells did not right and why there is still some mutual incomprehension between the vast majority who are no longer a part of that culture and those who still are.

    Having said that my wife was on a bus in Lochee yesterday (a not particularly salubrious part of Dundee if you can imagine such a thing). Two pensioners in front of her. The man asks the lady what she thought of the parties. The reply, "Ach, its a lot of fuss aboot a kerry out." Lochee and No 10, so much in common.

    Again, the story is nothing to do with booze, or fridges, or a ‘drinking culture’.

    It’s about Bozza and pals making draconian forays into the public’s civil liberties, imposing authoritarian rules and fining those who broke them. Then ignoring their own rules and doing what the F they liked.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,302

    It doesn't really matter if there was an already-established drinking culture in No. 10 before the pandemic.

    What matters is that you'd immediately and unquestioningly call a halt to it at the same time you're asking the entire country to forego their work parties and leaving do events and social gatherings.

    Which is why any report calling out the culture, and any subsequent action clamping down on it, will have been really misfocused.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,649
    Omnium said:

    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.

    No 10 is one of the most cctv'd buildings in the country and there are officers monitoring it 24/7, so yes they knew.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    People don’t get fired for honest mistakes in high-performing industries such as F1 teams, airlines and nuclear power plants, which is why we see reducing numbers of accidents in these industries over time.

    Emirates sacked all four crew on the spot after the 777 late rotation incident last December.
    Ah, zero defect culture in action.

    Wind everyone up with the expectation that a single mistake is the end for them, what could go wrong?

    https://youtu.be/eOll3v55Dmo?t=75

    I actually used some clips from the film to illustrate the problem, in a presentation once. On the surface (ha), you have a ship which is super efficient. Apparently good morale even... But under stress....
  • Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    And making it a criminal offence to go into the office which he scrapped yesterday

    Also threatening Chester City football club with criminal proceedings over playing a home game which has always come under Chester Police
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 368
    Scott_xP said:

    This is vg by @CamCavendish on the central dilemma for the Tories. The party and most of its leading figures are now so tainted by association with Boris Johnson it is not clear who could claim the mantle of integrity to replace him. https://on.ft.com/31YCT2Z via @FT https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1482287036518354945/photo/1

    If I were the Tories I would be looking for someone who has held high office so has experience but has also had a successful career pre-politics, is a teatotaller so isn’t into the whole work drinks thing, has loads of personal wealth so doesn’t need to tap the state or donors if they wish to tart up the flat and isn’t looking at future earning prospects with any decisions they make.

    If only there was someone like this in the party.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,153
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,617

    Cookie said:

    On thread: to extrapolate the specific to the general: avoid Paddy Power publicity bets.

    Off thread 'Plan B restrictions to be dropped as Johnson plans to fight back'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/plan-b-restrictions-scrapped-boris-johnson-plots-fightback/

    Doing something you said you were going to do anyway, to the timetable you were planning to do anyway, but not fully, is a crap fightback. He's actually managing to undershorts expectations - another 'two steps tighter, one step looser'.
    Plan B is pointless theatre, and the peak has passed. Why continue with it? Why not just drop it all, now? Makes neither epidemiological nor political sense.

    Yes, I have asked this repeatedly. Plan B is really problematic for new biz / client relationships because while-ever it remains in place, lots of organisations (perfectly understandably) follow the guidance and prevent their staff meeting in person.

    And, from a leisure perspective, mask mandates at the theatre and in fashion shopping are a major imposition.

    As you say, why not just bin it now, rather than prolong it for ten more days?
    For PR reasons. Exactly the same as with Wales and Scotland gradually loosening the extra rules they brought in, whilst maintaining the pretence that they were very important, oh yes, and everything would've been so much worse if they'd not bothered. We must be cautious when rolling back these oh so vital "protections"...

    If they admitted the whole thing was useless in the face of Omicron and there was no point in bothering then they'd get no credit for their honesty, they'd just be pilloried for over reacting.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,803
    "Big dog" (wtf) followed by Dishy Rishy?
    Is there a message in the nursery rhyme?

    Hey diddle diddle ...
    ...
    The little dog laughed to see such fun
    And the dish ran away with the spoon.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    Warner's gone. Duck again. A pair in this game!!!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,831
    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.

    No, Dominic C says pass holders aren't checked at all
    As someone who briefly worked in Parliament, I can confirm this. They literally wave you past the metal detectors. Those are for visitors.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849

    If Paddy Power are offering 2/1 on a re-united Korea in the next two years, what are they offering on a united Ireland in the same timeframe?

    5/1 on a Vote on Irish Unification to pass before Jan 1st 2030

    https://www.paddypower.com/politics/irish-politics
    Likely to shorten after May GE election in North.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    It’s being relaxed shortly. Lovely to see footage of the Quinn’s vs Cardiff match last night. An empty stadium missed eight tries, while in icu in Wales there are hardly any Covid patients.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    edited January 15

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    No: he was criticising the quasi-English government's policies. Quite different. He was under pressure to accept them as if they were obligatory UK policies and he gave reasons why not. Whether they were the right reasons is a different matter.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    No: he was criticising the quasi-English government's policies. Quite different. He was under pressure to accept them as if they were obligatory UK policies and he gave reasons why not. Whether they were the right reasons is a different matter.
    He called them dangerous. What evidence did he have for that? It was ludicrous. You can argue that in December we didn’t know for sure how omicron would play out. But when he did this it was pretty clear there was no issue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    It’s being relaxed shortly. Lovely to see footage of the Quinn’s vs Cardiff match last night. An empty stadium missed eight tries, while in icu in Wales there are hardly any Covid patients.
    It’s bizarre, this omicron ‘wave’, absolutely draconian restrictions in lots of areas at huge socioeconomic cost for no benefit.

    Why TF didn’t we listen to the South Africans?
This discussion has been closed.