That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
If by wave you mean infections, I'd agree. I'm far from convinced about a wave of hospitalisations and deaths. Speeding up the boosters doing seem like a worthwhile enterprise if the (unlikely) worst case scenario of omicron being severe, threatening the double vaccinated and ferociously transmissable are all true.
I didn't say the vaccine programme was a failure, I said it has been ineffective.
"World beating" it is clearly not, I notice Tories have stopped calling it that, why?
It was very quick to get up and running, and did very well until second jabs started but unfortunately did not scale up proportionally from there. That saved somewhere in the region of 100,000 lives, so I would never call that first phase a failure. The real problem has been a complacency set in around that time, that the job was on its way to being done, that two jabs would be enough, that children probably wouldn't need vaccinating.
Right from the very start of this at the back of my mind I've thought we might need to crash vaccinate the population very rapidly in response to a new more dangerous variant. I just didn't expect that to happen this year or the next, and yet here we are in the last weeks of 2021 and that's what we are now trying to do.
If I was PM I would give someone the job of figuring out what it will take to go from identifying a new variant of concern to vaccinating the whole population with an updated vaccine in a matter of a few months. Because if we end up facing something more virulent as well as more transmissible we will need the capability.
I completely agree with this. First phase, very good as I said so at the time and am happy to say so again. But the reality is that all told, this vaccine programme has ended up being pretty middling and not "world beating". As you say, that is complacency.
I remember when we were going to destroy Europe on this, so far ahead they said. And yet we've ended up in the same position. Seems all so petty now arguing about EU policy or not when it seems to have made little difference in the end
Where are you getting that idea from?
I think using European Union as a block is a little misleading, because some of the Eastern bloc are incredibly vaccine-sceptic (and/or only bought Russian vaccines).
A better compare would be to look at us relative to France/Germany/Italy/Spain, and there we're well ahead, but they've picked up the pace.
It is also worth noting that AZ-AZ-Pfizer is likely to be meaningfully more efficacious than Pfizer-Pfizer-Pfizer, which works in our benefit.
Clearly SAGE have told him Omicron isnt much milder, or not sufficiently milder to not overwhelm the NHS.
We are back to flatten the curve.
That's what my friend/source flagged up the other day.
The NHS collapsing will put the Tories out for decades.
Another lockdown will put the Tories out for years.
So Boris took the best course, mass rollout of boosters including the army to save the NHS. However not a single word about a future lockdown or even further vaxports being on the cards either
If bodies are piling up in January-February this stance is going to put the tories out for 50 years.
We obviously ought to have tighter restrictions, even if not an actual lockdown. The recklessness given the evident peril of the situation is breathtaking.
Seems the four nations have endorsed the message tonight and so has Starmer so collectively they are together on this tonight
If further measures are needed they will be taken but the idea we can keep locking down the nation is simply not sustainable not only for economic reasons but also mental health
We should just lock down the unvaccinated Big_G. That's where we will end up, so let's do it now.
Free the Big_G One!
I am not sure why you say that when my wife and I are so grateful that we have had our boosters and flu vaccine and have so much to be thankful for
Read the original post again Big_G. Slight punctuation error…
Sorry, it is over 60 years since I achieved my English 'O' level and missed the punctuation error
Is it worth pointing out that old Swedish Chris Witty, Anders Tegnell, said he thought the pandemic would be going on for 3-4 years....and not to judge countries based on the first few months.
Throws hand grenade and runs away.
Well the UK is buying vaccines for 2022 and 2023, so 4 years is pretty much the minimum.
Has anyone asked the Chinese whether they are experimenting with anything new at the Wuhan Lab?
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
If by wave you mean infections, I'd agree. I'm far from convinced about a wave of hospitalisations and deaths. Speeding up the boosters doing seem like a worthwhile enterprise if the (unlikely) worst case scenario of omicron being severe, threatening the double vaccinated and ferociously transmissable are all true.
I don't know, of course. But I expect the wave to include hospitalisations and potentially deaths, but maybe not at the levels of early 2019. Even during the summer and autumn trough, hospitalisations have been running at a quarter or a fifth of the January peak. Those numbers will rise significantly.
I remember when we were going to destroy Europe on this, so far ahead they said. And yet we've ended up in the same position. Seems all so petty now arguing about EU policy or not when it seems to have made little difference in the end
No you are wrong there. The whole point of what we did with early approval, buying multiple vaccines, and stretching the dosing intervals was to go fast. We did go fast. It was a fundamentally different goal from the EU, speed versus volume basically. It saved a lot of lives. So on that aspect you are in error.
Now where we went wrong is with step two. What do you do for the long term? What is the UK's steady state of covid vaccination? It wasn't scaled up to allow very rapid vaccination of the whole population, it was initially focused on purely boosting the vulnerable. That would probably have been fine with Alpha, and maybe even just about tenable with Delta, but Omicron has completley blown that plan out of the water. Omicron has almost sent us back to the start where speed matters above all once again.
I can report that Lustau Fino del Puerte is technically very good, but nowhere near as good as it is in situ in Jerez at the bodega, or propping up a bar watching flamenco.
Big fan of their vermouths
Yes, they were pushing their Vermut Rojo, dark and sweet in the Spanish style. Quite nice, but not something I would drink at home. Waitrose stock it. The Fino del Puerto is half way to a Manzanilla, which for some reason I like less (and I usually like manzanilla). I did have lunch in Sanlucar one day at La Cigarrera, but the best experience was just propping up the bar in the tabanco.
Clearly SAGE have told him Omicron isnt much milder, or not sufficiently milder to not overwhelm the NHS.
We are back to flatten the curve.
That's what my friend/source flagged up the other day.
The NHS collapsing will put the Tories out for decades.
Another lockdown will put the Tories out for years.
So Boris took the best course, mass rollout of boosters including the army to save the NHS. However not a single word about a future lockdown or even further vaxports being on the cards either
If bodies are piling up in January-February this stance is going to put the tories out for 50 years.
We obviously ought to have tighter restrictions, even if not an actual lockdown. The recklessness given the evident peril of the situation is breathtaking.
Seems the four nations have endorsed the message tonight and so has Starmer so collectively they are together on this tonight
If further measures are needed they will be taken but the idea we can keep locking down the nation is simply not sustainable not only for economic reasons but also mental health
We should just lock down the unvaccinated Big_G. That's where we will end up, so let's do it now.
Free the Big_G One!
I am not sure why you say that when my wife and I are so grateful that we have had our boosters and flu vaccine and have so much to be thankful for
Read the original post again Big_G. Slight punctuation error…
Sorry, it is over 60 years since I achieved my English 'O' level and missed the punctuation error
So did I when I wrote it and my English 'O' level was only 55 years ago, so no excuse. 🤭
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
Or read the autocue properly - still, that's a hazard of a live boradcast I guess. Oh...
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
I didn't say the vaccine programme was a failure, I said it has been ineffective.
"World beating" it is clearly not, I notice Tories have stopped calling it that, why?
It was very quick to get up and running, and did very well until second jabs started but unfortunately did not scale up proportionally from there. That saved somewhere in the region of 100,000 lives, so I would never call that first phase a failure. The real problem has been a complacency set in around that time, that the job was on its way to being done, that two jabs would be enough, that children probably wouldn't need vaccinating.
Right from the very start of this at the back of my mind I've thought we might need to crash vaccinate the population very rapidly in response to a new more dangerous variant. I just didn't expect that to happen this year or the next, and yet here we are in the last weeks of 2021 and that's what we are now trying to do.
If I was PM I would give someone the job of figuring out what it will take to go from identifying a new variant of concern to vaccinating the whole population with an updated vaccine in a matter of a few months. Because if we end up facing something more virulent as well as more transmissible we will need the capability.
I completely agree with this. First phase, very good as I said so at the time and am happy to say so again. But the reality is that all told, this vaccine programme has ended up being pretty middling and not "world beating". As you say, that is complacency.
I remember when we were going to destroy Europe on this, so far ahead they said. And yet we've ended up in the same position. Seems all so petty now arguing about EU policy or not when it seems to have made little difference in the end
Where are you getting that idea from?
I think using European Union as a block is a little misleading, because some of the Eastern bloc are incredibly vaccine-sceptic (and/or only bought Russian vaccines).
A better compare would be to look at us relative to France/Germany/Italy/Spain, and there we're well ahead, but they've picked up the pace.
It is also worth noting that AZ-AZ-Pfizer is likely to be meaningfully more efficacious than Pfizer-Pfizer-Pfizer, which works in our benefit.
I was asking the people that might know why that is since our stats show 76% neutralising efficacy for 3x Pfizer vs 72% for AZ/AZ/Pfizer. I got three similar explanations as to the theory, 3x Pfizer will have good neutralising efficacy but not as good prevention of severe symptoms in the long term. They've all taken to the severity scale the doctor in our group used at dinner, they said that 3x Pfizer will give symptoms between 0-6 on a bell curve while AZ/AZ/Pfizer will give 1-5 on a bell curve, so a lot of those potential 6s don't exist but you also lose the 0s, the consensus view was that losing the zeros is better than having the 6s which in older people may require hospitalisation.
I didn't say the vaccine programme was a failure, I said it has been ineffective.
"World beating" it is clearly not, I notice Tories have stopped calling it that, why?
It was very quick to get up and running, and did very well until second jabs started but unfortunately did not scale up proportionally from there. That saved somewhere in the region of 100,000 lives, so I would never call that first phase a failure. The real problem has been a complacency set in around that time, that the job was on its way to being done, that two jabs would be enough, that children probably wouldn't need vaccinating.
Right from the very start of this at the back of my mind I've thought we might need to crash vaccinate the population very rapidly in response to a new more dangerous variant. I just didn't expect that to happen this year or the next, and yet here we are in the last weeks of 2021 and that's what we are now trying to do.
If I was PM I would give someone the job of figuring out what it will take to go from identifying a new variant of concern to vaccinating the whole population with an updated vaccine in a matter of a few months. Because if we end up facing something more virulent as well as more transmissible we will need the capability.
I completely agree with this. First phase, very good as I said so at the time and am happy to say so again. But the reality is that all told, this vaccine programme has ended up being pretty middling and not "world beating". As you say, that is complacency.
I remember when we were going to destroy Europe on this, so far ahead they said. And yet we've ended up in the same position. Seems all so petty now arguing about EU policy or not when it seems to have made little difference in the end
Where are you getting that idea from?
I think using European Union as a block is a little misleading, because some of the Eastern bloc are incredibly vaccine-sceptic (and/or only bought Russian vaccines).
A better compare would be to look at us relative to France/Germany/Italy/Spain, and there we're well ahead, but they've picked up the pace.
It is also worth noting that AZ-AZ-Pfizer is likely to be meaningfully more efficacious than Pfizer-Pfizer-Pfizer, which works in our benefit.
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
You really do vie with HYUFD as being the most blinkered poster on here. If we all accept your worldview that the English are satanic spawn with no redeeming features will you piss of an blight somewhere else?
"Daimler AG, through its Mercedes-Benz brand, has been involved in Formula One as both team owner and engine manufacturer for various periods since 1954. They currently own 33 percent of the team based in Brackley, England,[6] which is currently named Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team and uses a German licence.[7] Mercedes-branded teams are often referred to by their nickname, the "Silver Arrows"." ... "In 2010, the company bought the Brawn GP team, rebranding it as Mercedes. After a major rule shake-up in 2014, Mercedes has become one of the most successful teams in Formula One history; having achieved consecutive Drivers' and Constructors' Championships from 2014 to 2020. It has set the new record for most wins in a season (19 in 2016), and for most consecutive constructors' titles."
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
Yep, mission accomplished. Already no one is even debating if this tidal wave of NHS crushing proportions is real or not. Even if it turns in to some water lapping at our ankles there'll never be any consequences for those shouting now.
I remember when we were going to destroy Europe on this, so far ahead they said. And yet we've ended up in the same position. Seems all so petty now arguing about EU policy or not when it seems to have made little difference in the end
No you are wrong there. The whole point of what we did with early approval, buying multiple vaccines, and stretching the dosing intervals was to go fast. We did go fast. It was a fundamentally different goal from the EU, speed versus volume basically. It saved a lot of lives. So on that aspect you are in error.
Now where we went wrong is with step two. What do you do for the long term? What is the UK's steady state of covid vaccination? It wasn't scaled up to allow very rapid vaccination of the whole population, it was initially focused on purely boosting the vulnerable. That would probably have been fine with Alpha, and maybe even just about tenable with Delta, but Omicron has completley blown that plan out of the water. Omicron has almost sent us back to the start where speed matters above all once again.
Yes, someone posted the French vaccine stats a couple of weeks ago which showed millions of over 50s with zero doses but also millions of kids with two vs ours where there's a few hundred thousand over 50s with zero doses and just a million or so kids done. It flatters their programme a lot, our coverage is significantly better because older people matter a lot, lot more for immunisation than kids. Even with all they've done their first dose coverage is 52m vs 51m for the UK which is 80% vs 76% population coverage with France doing significant numbers of under 25s compared to us (maybe an extra 2m) but leaving well over a million oldies with no vaccine protection.
Again, the whole thing has been turned into a simple dick waving contest and yes, the numbers matter, however, I'd rather have 99% of over 60s done and 70% of everyone else than 90% of everyone.
Why are the English so insecure? You really don’t need to claim the achievements of others as your own. There are plenty of top English sportspeople and teams you can take pride in. It’s embarrassing to see a once great nation picking over scraps.
Is it worth pointing out that old Swedish Chris Witty, Anders Tegnell, said he thought the pandemic would be going on for 3-4 years....and not to judge countries based on the first few months.
Throws hand grenade and runs away.
Well the UK is buying vaccines for 2022 and 2023, so 4 years is pretty much the minimum.
Has anyone asked the Chinese whether they are experimenting with anything new at the Wuhan Lab?
Chinese viruses are crap. Beaten easily by the Indian, South African and even Kentish viruses.
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
Yep, mission accomplished. Already no one is even debating if this tidal wave of NHS crushing proportions is real or not. Even if it turns in to some water lapping at our ankles there'll never be any consequences for those shouting now.
If it only laps at our ankles then that's because the booster campaign did a great job. 😏
According to the presidency, Mr Ramaphosa started feeling unwell after today’s memorial service in Cape Town for South Africa’s last white president, FW de Klerk, who died last month.
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
Yep, mission accomplished. Already no one is even debating if this tidal wave of NHS crushing proportions is real or not. Even if it turns in to some water lapping at our ankles there'll never be any consequences for those shouting now.
If it only laps at our ankles then that's because the booster campaign did a great job. 😏
Given the track record, I'd say knocking a 0 off the end of any Nervtag central scenario will result in a more accurate forecast than that presented by SAGE & the government to justify their actions.
Of course we have to use forecast carefully, because in 8 weeks when it's laughably wrong the data used to make the decision will just be a possible scenario, and it will be a horrible slander to say they predicted it and were completely wrong.
Oh goody it's back on the pro Boris train again from the same wavering poster who calls for him to resign and then back to praising him tomorrow, I am shocked
I am operating under the assumption that the Government doesn't believe the vaccination goal is attainable. This dramatic pledge is just to help get as many people as possible boosted as soon as possible.
Everyone who can be vaccinated within the system is being vaccinated. The purpose of the broadcast, I suspect, is to jolt people into changing their behaviour without the government at this stage imposing lockdown.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to recover some self-respect and initiative, after the past week, by doing something supposedly prime ministerial? Even if he couldn’t be arsed to tidy himself up for it.
To be fair (if that's the right way to put it) to Johnson, I don't believe he would have done that broadcast if he didn't think the situation required him to do it. The question is whether the situation requires him to do something more but his weakness holds him back.
The broadcast will change the media narrative and that is already apparent
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
What do you think success looks like?
That is a very good question
If his boosters actually get into arms and we really are in a much better place then he will stave off the threat to his premiership but we are some distance from that if at all
Oh goody it's back on the pro Boris train again from the same wavering poster who calls for him to resign and then back to praising him tomorrow, I am shocked
As if, the party needs to get rid. You lot supporting this Omicron panic let him off the hook by letting him change the national agenda to lockdowns rather than his malfeasance.
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
Like when folks thought Nazi Germany was on the ropes in the Summer of 1944 and the war in Europe would be over by Christmas. Before Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge that is.
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
Oh goody it's back on the pro Boris train again from the same wavering poster who calls for him to resign and then back to praising him tomorrow, I am shocked
If you are referring to myself you have clearly not followed my posts even tonight
I have consistently wanted Boris replaced by Rishi and also said Starmer is a humour free zone labour leader
Why are the English so insecure? You really don’t need to claim the achievements of others as your own. There are plenty of top English sportspeople and teams you can take pride in. It’s embarrassing to see a once great nation picking over scraps.
You came on here with a deliberately provocative half truth of a post post which you backed up with a citation from Wikipedia waiting for a reaction you knew would come. .
That makes you a troll Stuart. You see, the thing is, most people on here are far cleverer, happier and more successful than you. I know it hurts. Wrapping yourself in your Saltire won't make up for the career and personal disappointment you've clearly had in your life, which makes you come on here to try and wind up some English people for cheap thrills. I hope someday you'll find the love, emotional and physical satisfaction that is so clearly lacking in your life and you can move on. I for one, and I hope all other people of faith, are praying for you Stuart. We love you and I hope that what clearly ails you and strikes at your heart is healed.
Oh goody it's back on the pro Boris train again from the same wavering poster who calls for him to resign and then back to praising him tomorrow, I am shocked
As if, the party needs to get rid. You lot supporting this Omicron panic let him off the hook by letting him change the national agenda to lockdowns rather than his malfeasance.
Wasn't Tory polling at its worst during Dec/Jan in the last year?
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
Like when folks thought Nazi Germany was on the ropes in the Summer of 1944 and the war in Europe would be over by Christmas. Before Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge that is.
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
'Oh We've survived it, The Great War, From 1914 to 1917.'
Oh goody it's back on the pro Boris train again from the same wavering poster who calls for him to resign and then back to praising him tomorrow, I am shocked
As if, the party needs to get rid. You lot supporting this Omicron panic let him off the hook by letting him change the national agenda to lockdowns rather than his malfeasance.
Wasn't Tory polling at its worst during Dec/Jan in the last year?
Recent twitter posts relating to John Timperley, we don't know him! it appears he recently joined the party in London. The Green Party is categorically not encouraging anyone to vote Lib Dem in north Shropshire
Why was he not wearing a wedding ring? Has Carrie dumped him already?
I don't wear mine. Never got on with having it on my finger.
I used to wear it and then started playing with it during the workday, then it fell on the floor and I couldn't find it for hours. After that I leave it at home in the drawer and only wear it to weddings and on our anniversary. I honestly think it would be a week in the spare bedroom if I lost it.
I managed to lose my original wedding ring at a friend's wedding. I was rather drunk...
I now wear my Great-grandfathers and never take it off.
Reminds me of a minor incident which ended well last summer.
A couple of guys jumped into the tidal pool at Polperro.. A moment later, I heard a loud howl of dismay, as one of the divers realised that his wife's grandfather's wedding ring had fallen off his hand into the drink. Earlier I had been (trying to take photos with a waterproof camera, and had packed face mask and snorkel in my rucksack.
I offered the guy the mask, and snorkel, given the size of the pool there was a good chance that he could recover the heirloom. I am happy to report he recovered the ring.
Great story.
Decades ago was in the French Quarter on a February night enjoying Mardi Gras. When one of my friend lost one of her contact lenses, which somehow popped out - right in the middle of Bourbon Street.
We searched for quite a while in the gloom, illuminated only by streetlights, neon signs and a cigarette lighter. Number of other revelers asked what we were doing, and joined in the search.
And lo and behold, we found it! Close to miraculous under those circumstances.
Incidentally, ive taken a quick look at (USA state of) Georgia's excellent Covid dashboard and it looks like cases are bending up again there, repeating last year's summer-winter waves pattern.
I had a look because it looked a bit like Florida was starting to bend upwards but as their data is so laggy and infrequently updated it was hard to tell.
Recent twitter posts relating to John Timperley, we don't know him! it appears he recently joined the party in London. The Green Party is categorically not encouraging anyone to vote Lib Dem in north Shropshire
Do you think Leon has heard the news, or do you think he is still off his tits on the Peruvian Loopy juice.
Since he's not posted, I think we all know the answer to that one.
Wait until he comes around and hears Boris statement, he will be running around the room with his pants on his head in panic.
We watched the Boris statement “live”, unusual for us to watch old fashioned telly. Breathed a sigh of relief that it wasn’t to announce lockdown and just some cajoling to the muppets to get vaccinated. And then got on with the evening.
Meanwhile on masks, I have once again asked my MP to persuade the government to pivot away from the generalised public mask mandate, and instead offer nhs prescription of ffp3 for vulnerable groups. Targeted and impactful. Far more so than having those groups rely on the compliance and technique of the masses.
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
Like when folks thought Nazi Germany was on the ropes in the Summer of 1944 and the war in Europe would be over by Christmas. Before Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge that is.
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
'Oh We've survived it, The Great War, From 1914 to 1917.'
New restrictions are likely "in the next few weeks" in Wales to deal with the new Omicron variant, the health minister has said. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59628666
Nobody wants to hear it, but start of Jan we are all getting increased restrictions.
Guardian: As Johnson acknowledged, the “extraordinary effort” will come at a price. “As we focus on boosters and make this new target achievable, it will mean some other appointments will need to be postponed until the New Year. But if we don’t do this now, the wave of Omicron could be so big that cancellations and disruptions, like the loss of cancer appointments, would be even greater next year.”
He did not quantify how many fewer GP consultations, operations and outpatient appointments will now not happen in the weeks ahead. It is impossible to know what those numbers will be. But given GPs see more than 20m patients a month, they will be measured in the many millions. The backlog of people awaiting hospital care in England is already just shy of 6 million. The widespread cancellation of hip and knee replacements, cataract removals and other planned operations will send that soaring. This is a strategy of short-term pain for long-term gain.
The initial reaction from NHS bosses was one of support. As one official said: “NHS leaders will be fine with the plan as they recognise that the likely pressures from Omicron could be very serious. But they will need the PM and ministers to make clear that the number one and number two priorities are delivering the booster – and first and second doses to those who haven’t been jabbed – and dealing with medical emergencies. That means non-urgent ops and so on will likely be pushed back but hopefully this is for a specific period of time as we race to get as many people jabbed as possible.”
Do you think Leon has heard the news, or do you think he is still off his tits on the Peruvian Loopy juice.
Since he's not posted, I think we all know the answer to that one.
Wait until he comes around and hears Boris statement, he will be running around the room with his pants on his head in panic.
We watched the Boris statement “live”, unusual for us to watch old fashioned telly. Breathed a sigh of relief that it wasn’t to announce lockdown and just some cajoling to the muppets to get vaccinated. And then got on with the evening.
Meanwhile on masks, I have once again asked my MP to persuade the government to pivot away from the generalised public mask mandate, and instead offer nhs prescription of ffp3 for vulnerable groups. Targeted and impactful. Far more so than having those groups rely on the compliance and technique of the masses.
Indeed, good thinking. I’ve been advocating this for a while. It makes huge sense and should also go some way to ending the ludicrous bickering and culture-warring that goes on about masks. It would be a smart, and beneficial move.
For all Boris Johnson's dishevelment he held the line against imposing new social restrictions, probably against the advice of the CMO and CSO.
100% Dr Doom asked for Boris to cancel Christmas and / or New Year.
Trouble is, Boris was the same last year then tightened restrictions at the last minute. Let's hope he has got it right this time. If we are to face Christmas limits, tell us now.
New restrictions are likely "in the next few weeks" in Wales to deal with the new Omicron variant, the health minister has said. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59628666
Nobody wants to hear it, but start of Jan we are all getting increased restrictions.
You are probably right about January, but to be fair you were confidently predicting restrictions over Christmas, which you are now quietly backing away from.
New restrictions are likely "in the next few weeks" in Wales to deal with the new Omicron variant, the health minister has said. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59628666
Nobody wants to hear it, but start of Jan we are all getting increased restrictions.
You are probably right about January, but to be fair you were confidently predicting restrictions over Christmas, which you are now quietly backing away from.
Did I? I don't think I did, not seriously.....I am fairly sure I said SAGE would advocate for them, but Boris wouldn't agree for political reasons. There is no way he can cancel Christmas, his party will sack him instantly.
What I did say lockdown coming afterward, which I don't think we will get, it will be phrased as enhanced restrictions. Now if that means the boozer is closed, it might well be. That seems to be the sort of measures SAGE are calling for.
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
Like when folks thought Nazi Germany was on the ropes in the Summer of 1944 and the war in Europe would be over by Christmas. Before Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge that is.
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
'Oh We've survived it, The Great War, From 1914 to 1917.'
For all Boris Johnson's dishevelment he held the line against imposing new social restrictions, probably against the advice of the CMO and CSO.
100% Dr Doom asked for Boris to cancel Christmas and / or New Year.
Trouble is, Boris was the same last year then tightened restrictions at the last minute. Let's hope he has got it right this time. If we are to face Christmas limits, tell us now.
What is he going to do? If he closes the pubs that will bring misery upon the country and everyone will just stage house parties instead, which are probably worse in terms of transmission. PartyGate means lockdowns are now unenforceable. Boosters and prescription FFP3 masks for the vulnerable are the only viable avenues.
Why was he not wearing a wedding ring? Has Carrie dumped him already?
I don't wear mine. Never got on with having it on my finger.
I used to wear it and then started playing with it during the workday, then it fell on the floor and I couldn't find it for hours. After that I leave it at home in the drawer and only wear it to weddings and on our anniversary. I honestly think it would be a week in the spare bedroom if I lost it.
I managed to lose my original wedding ring at a friend's wedding. I was rather drunk...
I now wear my Great-grandfathers and never take it off.
Reminds me of a minor incident which ended well last summer.
A couple of guys jumped into the tidal pool at Polperro.. A moment later, I heard a loud howl of dismay, as one of the divers realised that his wife's grandfather's wedding ring had fallen off his hand into the drink. Earlier I had been (trying to take photos with a waterproof camera, and had packed face mask and snorkel in my rucksack.
I offered the guy the mask, and snorkel, given the size of the pool there was a good chance that he could recover the heirloom. I am happy to report he recovered the ring.
Great story.
Decades ago was in the French Quarter on a February night enjoying Mardi Gras. When one of my friend lost one of her contact lenses, which somehow popped out - right in the middle of Bourbon Street.
We searched for quite a while in the gloom, illuminated only by streetlights, neon signs and a cigarette lighter. Number of other revelers asked what we were doing, and joined in the search.
And lo and behold, we found it! Close to miraculous under those circumstances.
A friend dropped a very expensive pair of glasses into Horse Lake - a very muddy old torpedo testing area. If you can see your hand before it touches your face mask, you are doing well...
Hilariously, it was while we were doing a scuba skills course. Something like 20 wannabe Dive Masters went in like a shot, organising search grids etc. Found the glasses in about 2 minutes.
I still remember the 2 french twats who wouldn't listen to instruction, a bit later that day. Too cool for school. So they dropped a scuba tank. On concrete. neck first. Everyone diving sideways in slow motion. All we needed was some doves flying through and Chow Yun Fat strolling by and it would have been a John Woo special... The tank bounced on the neck at least 4 times.....
That hubris thing that Leon and I have referred to has been playing in my mind. A few weeks ago TSE posted up a thread in which he stated that unless there was some flesh-eating mutant form of covid he expected Boris' tories to surge ahead in the polls: 10% I think was quoted.
That's not a pop at TSE. It's a caution that whenever we think this bloody thing is beat, it comes back and bites us ... hard.
To be fair the idea that a more transmissible variant might emerge approx 6 moths after the last more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the first more transmissible variant that emerged approx 6 months after the start of the pandemic was basically unimaginable.
Yes. I think the Omicron wave might turn out to be reasonably short lived one and less severe than the Delta one last January - if that counts as "mild". Thing is, this is an extra wave that we didn't think we were getting. We thought we were on the home straight with Covid.
It's massively disappointing.
Like when folks thought Nazi Germany was on the ropes in the Summer of 1944 and the war in Europe would be over by Christmas. Before Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge that is.
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
'Oh We've survived it, The Great War, From 1914 to 1917.'
For all Boris Johnson's dishevelment he held the line against imposing new social restrictions, probably against the advice of the CMO and CSO.
100% Dr Doom asked for Boris to cancel Christmas and / or New Year.
Trouble is, Boris was the same last year then tightened restrictions at the last minute. Let's hope he has got it right this time. If we are to face Christmas limits, tell us now.
What is he going to do? If he closes the pubs that will bring misery upon the country and everyone will just stage house parties instead, which are probably worse in terms of transmission. PartyGate means lockdowns are now unenforceable. Boosters and prescription FFP3 masks for the vulnerable are the only viable avenues.
Odd story. I haven't heard of anyone bitten by a mouse before.
But if Covid did get into the human population, how might it have escaped from the Wuhan lab? One possible answer lies in Taiwan, where a scientist working on Covid experiments at the Academia Sinica in Taipei has tested positive for the Delta variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus after being bitten by a laboratory mouse on 19 November. No community transmission of Covid has been recorded in Taiwan for a month. The same worker had previously been bitten by a mouse at the laboratory a month earlier, but on that occasion tested negative. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-taiwan-hold-the-answer-to-the-lab-leak-theory-
Comments
A better compare would be to look at us relative to France/Germany/Italy/Spain, and there we're well ahead, but they've picked up the pace.
It is also worth noting that AZ-AZ-Pfizer is likely to be meaningfully more efficacious than Pfizer-Pfizer-Pfizer, which works in our benefit.
Keep attacking former Labour voters though I am sure you wont need their votes at the next GE.
This "why don't you f**k off and join the Tories" People's Front of Judea attitude is endemic within the Labour Party.
Now where we went wrong is with step two. What do you do for the long term? What is the UK's steady state of covid vaccination? It wasn't scaled up to allow very rapid vaccination of the whole population, it was initially focused on purely boosting the vulnerable. That would probably have been fine with Alpha, and maybe even just about tenable with Delta, but Omicron has completley blown that plan out of the water. Omicron has almost sent us back to the start where speed matters above all once again.
It has strong March 2020 vibes.
You really are thick as whale omelette.
The bastards who bought down Major, Cameron and May are gonna bring down Boris.
It’s inevitable
Except the anyone but Starmer Party
Good night.
Wait until he finds out Red Bull are based in Milton Keynes.
Unvaccinated workers must come clean to employers under new Covid rules https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/unvaccinated-workers-must-come-clean-employers-new-covid-rules/
Looking forward to next weekend.
Save a lot of time and tedium if they just did the qualifying, and the drivers championship and pole trophy were the same thing.
They are only talking about omicron and the measures announced
Maybe that was no 10 strategy
Boris now has to succeed if he wants any form of redemption
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1470139729358295042?s=20
When PM Peppa Pig starts talking about emergency, things looking bad, tidal waves, etc, you know shit is hitting the fan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_based_in_Northamptonshire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_in_Formula_One
"Daimler AG, through its Mercedes-Benz brand, has been involved in Formula One as both team owner and engine manufacturer for various periods since 1954. They currently own 33 percent of the team based in Brackley, England,[6] which is currently named Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team and uses a German licence.[7] Mercedes-branded teams are often referred to by their nickname, the "Silver Arrows"."
...
"In 2010, the company bought the Brawn GP team, rebranding it as Mercedes. After a major rule shake-up in 2014, Mercedes has become one of the most successful teams in Formula One history; having achieved consecutive Drivers' and Constructors' Championships from 2014 to 2020. It has set the new record for most wins in a season (19 in 2016), and for most consecutive constructors' titles."
Again, the whole thing has been turned into a simple dick waving contest and yes, the numbers matter, however, I'd rather have 99% of over 60s done and 70% of everyone else than 90% of everyone.
According to the presidency, Mr Ramaphosa started feeling unwell after today’s memorial service in Cape Town for South Africa’s last white president, FW de Klerk, who died last month.
Of course we have to use forecast carefully, because in 8 weeks when it's laughably wrong the data used to make the decision will just be a possible scenario, and it will be a horrible slander to say they predicted it and were completely wrong.
https://huggingface.co/spaces/akhaliq/ArcaneGAN
If his boosters actually get into arms and we really are in a much better place then he will stave off the threat to his premiership but we are some distance from that if at all
Wishful thinking is still wishful thinking . . . and hope keeps springing eternal . . .
I have consistently wanted Boris replaced by Rishi and also said Starmer is a humour free zone labour leader
That makes you a troll Stuart. You see, the thing is, most people on here are far cleverer, happier and more successful than you. I know it hurts. Wrapping yourself in your Saltire won't make up for the career and personal disappointment you've clearly had in your life, which makes you come on here to try and wind up some English people for cheap thrills. I hope someday you'll find the love, emotional and physical satisfaction that is so clearly lacking in your life and you can move on. I for one, and I hope all other people of faith, are praying for you Stuart. We love you and I hope that what clearly ails you and strikes at your heart is healed.
Until then f*ck off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3-Gt7mgyM
Recent twitter posts relating to John Timperley, we don't know him! it appears he recently joined the party in London. The Green Party is categorically not encouraging anyone to vote Lib Dem in north Shropshire
https://twitter.com/NShropsGreens/status/1470142868916473866
Decades ago was in the French Quarter on a February night enjoying Mardi Gras. When one of my friend lost one of her contact lenses, which somehow popped out - right in the middle of Bourbon Street.
We searched for quite a while in the gloom, illuminated only by streetlights, neon signs and a cigarette lighter. Number of other revelers asked what we were doing, and joined in the search.
And lo and behold, we found it! Close to miraculous under those circumstances.
I had a look because it looked a bit like Florida was starting to bend upwards but as their data is so laggy and infrequently updated it was hard to tell.
Meanwhile on masks, I have once again asked my MP to persuade the government to pivot away from the generalised public mask mandate, and instead offer nhs prescription of ffp3 for vulnerable groups. Targeted and impactful. Far more so than having those groups rely on the compliance and technique of the masses.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59628666
Nobody wants to hear it, but start of Jan we are all getting increased restrictions.
He did not quantify how many fewer GP consultations, operations and outpatient appointments will now not happen in the weeks ahead. It is impossible to know what those numbers will be. But given GPs see more than 20m patients a month, they will be measured in the many millions. The backlog of people awaiting hospital care in England is already just shy of 6 million. The widespread cancellation of hip and knee replacements, cataract removals and other planned operations will send that soaring. This is a strategy of short-term pain for long-term gain.
The initial reaction from NHS bosses was one of support. As one official said: “NHS leaders will be fine with the plan as they recognise that the likely pressures from Omicron could be very serious. But they will need the PM and ministers to make clear that the number one and number two priorities are delivering the booster – and first and second doses to those who haven’t been jabbed – and dealing with medical emergencies. That means non-urgent ops and so on will likely be pushed back but hopefully this is for a specific period of time as we race to get as many people jabbed as possible.”
Brilliant acting from the main two as you'd expect, and lots of fun in the writing (eg the police).
Shame it is only a few episodes, gonna need more decent TV for lockdown 3.
We need Ministers prepared to tell the experts "thank you for your advice, but I'm not going to follow it"
What I did say lockdown coming afterward, which I don't think we will get, it will be phrased as enhanced restrictions. Now if that means the boozer is closed, it might well be. That seems to be the sort of measures SAGE are calling for.
Absolutely nailed the tragedy of the whole situation perfectly.
FFS
Hilariously, it was while we were doing a scuba skills course. Something like 20 wannabe Dive Masters went in like a shot, organising search grids etc. Found the glasses in about 2 minutes.
I still remember the 2 french twats who wouldn't listen to instruction, a bit later that day. Too cool for school. So they dropped a scuba tank. On concrete. neck first. Everyone diving sideways in slow motion. All we needed was some doves flying through and Chow Yun Fat strolling by and it would have been a John Woo special... The tank bounced on the neck at least 4 times.....
But if Covid did get into the human population, how might it have escaped from the Wuhan lab? One possible answer lies in Taiwan, where a scientist working on Covid experiments at the Academia Sinica in Taipei has tested positive for the Delta variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus after being bitten by a laboratory mouse on 19 November. No community transmission of Covid has been recorded in Taiwan for a month. The same worker had previously been bitten by a mouse at the laboratory a month earlier, but on that occasion tested negative.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-taiwan-hold-the-answer-to-the-lab-leak-theory-