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On the day of the 1st anniversary of the vaccine – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 17,293
    edited December 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I'd like to know which Cabinet Ministers attended the party:-

    Sunak. He will certainly have known about it. Judging by his guilty expression yesterday when asked I think he attended too.

    Who else? Which senior civil servants? Journalists?

    Are 10 and 11 all the same building internally?
    Yep - and remember that most PMs now live in the flat at No 11 as it's bigger than the one at No 10.
  • eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    The Scottish Tories and their media chums have just spent the last month slagging off vaccine passports, and now their English brethren follow the SG lead.

    Ditto Scottish Labour and WG.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,709
    edited December 2021
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Enitrely off topic, but a subject we often cover: why is traffic congestion so bad in the UK? An article in the Telegraph which sets out my views quite well:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/08/life-slow-lane-london-became-worlds-congested-city/
    "Two factors that make it dreamy or nightmarish to drive into and around cities, though, are counterintuitive, in that they have nothing to do with transport at all. The data, though, show that how densely cities are populated and how thriving their centres are makes a huge difference to drivers.

    If cities are densely populated, it is easy to provide a coherent public transport network to lower car numbers. Paris, with almost 54,000 people per square mile and busy Metro stops every 200 yards, is the classic example. Sheffield, with 4,000 people per square mile, has a tramline that is considerably less popular.

    Moreover Paris has a thriving centre, so it is easy to funnel people in the single direction they are all going. Whereas Sheffield, like many British cities outside London, has been hollowed out; jobs are spread all over the place, so workers find it far easier to drive to their offices.

    This combination of city densities and thriving centres transforms public transport planning and so has a huge impact on drivers. For example, Leeds and Marseille have a similar population but, according to a recent Centre for Cities report, because Marseille is denser, 87 per cent of people can reach its centre in 30 minutes by public transport, compared with just 38 per cent in Leeds. Indeed, in Europe 67 per cent of people can commute to city centres in 30 minutes, compared with just 40 per cent in Britain. Our scattered cities make public transport trickier and send more of us flocking to our cars. And that time wasted is money wasted. Rome and Manchester are the same size but the Italian capital, despite its notoriously chaotic road traffic, is 55 per cent more productive, “partly because a much larger share of its workforce can travel into the city centre by public transport”."

    (Mods - Hope it's ok to provide a direct quote that size!)

    I'm inclined to view that as yet another silly hit piece in the Telegraph. But TBF it is a bit more than that.

    Their "world's most congested" list from the research company does not seem to include anything in Asia except Oz/Nz and Turkey. No China, no India, no Mumbai.

    Rome/Manchester. Does Manchester not have a smaller centre, and they have only been doing serious stuff wrt public transprot for a few years. Also Rome gets the capital city stuff - Embassys, Govt etc.

    In the UK, we need work on creating a better public transport system,l kbut it is a 30-50 year project and requires backstabber Boris not to cancel projects such as HS2 NE.

    If you look at eg Nottingham, you'll see that Trams + Cycleways + Light Rail have kept congestion under control for a couple of decades. IIRC traffic has not increased much at all.
    Certainly accept your criticism's regarding definitions and comparators. Comparing Manchester with the likes of Essen, Rotterdam would be better. And would still show the same results: density leads to fewer hours lost in congestion.
    Agree providing public transport is a long-term project.
    (As a Mancunian, I bridle slightly at the suggestion that we have only been doing serious stuff wrt to public transport for a few years - our tram/light rail network predates (and is rather better than) Nottingham's!)

    But these are quibbles: the broader point is how you plan your cities. And it's perfectly possible to plan for high or medium-high density and still provide a good quality of life.
    Ooops.

    For Nottm I am distinguishing Trams (2004) from the Robin Hood Line (early 90s). Having checked the dates, my apologies.

    Perhaps I didn't see it for the rain when I visited? :smile:

    I'm 20 miles from Nottingham, and it is 25 mins on the RHL once I get on the train.

    I always find the motorways around Manchester a bit of a 'mare, all with nearly the same number.

    Nottm struggles with being a very compact city wrt boundaries, and nearby towns are becoming part of the conurbation.

    How has congestion gone in Manchester over the period?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476
    Easy for you to say
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    Plan B? Who's pregnant now?
    That's a bit like being filmed putting a dead cat on the table in the middle of the Kabul animal care shelter.
    Boris was on holiday over Kabul

    Holidays are part of private life

    Everyone is entitled to privacy

    Therefore Boris should get a superinjunction preventing us from discussing Kabul AND the existence of the superinjunction

    Same applies to parties

    Is Braverman up to the job or not?
    I'd be surprised if Braverman was up to the job of getting her shoes on in the morning.
  • Carnyx said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking to the future. Exponential growth. What happened 1-4 weeks ago is not what we get 1-4 weeks in the future.
    Meh, they would need a master seller to sell it, and they're increasingly tarnished.

    This 'variant' seems to be a damp squib.

    I want to do the 'right' thing, but they have no goodwill left.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    The Scottish Tories and their media chums have just spent the last month slagging off vaccine passports, and now their English brethren follow the SG lead.

    Ditto Scottish Labour and WG.
    Ditto WFH.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Nice to see Blackford doing his bit for the Union.....
    Nice to see Conservative central office admit that Johnson is bad for the Union.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,328
    https://twitter.com/DevanSinha/status/1468526775693201414

    So 2 doses offers weak protection against catching it, strong protection against severe disease, and a booster tops both those levels up to Delta level protection.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    There is a certain dissonance in HYUFD stressing that voters in Scottish constituencies voted for UK MPs, and them promptly ignoring a MP because he is from a Scottish constituency.
    If there is one thing you could never accuse FUDHY of, it is joined-up thinking.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466

    Carnyx said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking to the future. Exponential growth. What happened 1-4 weeks ago is not what we get 1-4 weeks in the future.
    Meh, they would need a master seller to sell it, and they're increasingly tarnished.

    This 'variant' seems to be a damp squib.

    I want to do the 'right' thing, but they have no goodwill left.
    Point taken - also MaxPB's suggestion it's a dead cat. What really worries me increasingly is that they havew no goodwill left and omicron turns out to be nasty. Too early to say, but by the time we know for sure ...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,328
    Cyclefree said:

    I'd like to know which Cabinet Ministers attended the party:-

    Sunak. He will certainly have known about it. Judging by his guilty expression yesterday when asked I think he attended too.

    Who else? Which senior civil servants? Journalists?

    Weren't people accusing him of leaking it yesterday
  • Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    The Scottish Tories and their media chums have just spent the last month slagging off vaccine passports, and now their English brethren follow the SG lead.

    Ditto Scottish Labour and WG.
    Ditto WFH.
    Aha! Working from home.

    I think I’m acronymed-out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 99,295
    edited December 2021
    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.
  • Carnyx said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking to the future. Exponential growth. What happened 1-4 weeks ago is not what we get 1-4 weeks in the future.
    Yes, and it appears that we are increasingly clear about two things with Omicron. That it is very infectious and spreads rapidly even through vaccinated populations. And that it isn't as nasty in terms of symptoms as Delta.

    Assuming they are both true - and it is still early doors on this one - the risk is just basic maths. The percentage of people who get really sick from Omicron is lower, but a lot more people will get it. A lower percentage of a higher number infected means higher numbers in hospital and dying. That is the risk - that despite being milder than Delta the sheer numbers sick overwhelms hospital services.

    And if they need to deploy the speed brakes, they're really going to struggle.
  • eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    This is untenable. People won't follow them. They need a new leader just to enforce those rules.
    Working from home is not a rule. It is a government suggestion, there is zero enforcement possible anyway. Vaccine passports for big venues is already happening in many of them, and others will follow or lose their licenses if the law changes.

    Your point would be true for things like the re-introduction of the rule of six but it is wrong for plan B (assuming plan B is still the same). Face masks were part of plan B but are already in place and people were already making their own decisions on whether to follow or not before the latest scandal.
  • I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    He shouldn't, but we haven't got an Opposition worth its salt.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,709
    Bizarre from Biden?

    US to demand halt to Nord Stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/d1ed75b0-338f-42f8-836b-f94cb00670ca

    How is he going to enforce that?
  • I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    https://labourlist.org/2021/07/starmers-position-on-covid-passports-its-got-to-be-passports-plus-testing/?amp
  • FPT:
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I don't think that is true.
    Thatcher was an election winner, but is there anyone who seriously believed she would've managed a better result in 1992 (or 1991) than John Major?

    And whilst we'll never know for certain, would Blair have managed better than Brown in 2010? Even if you think he might've got more seats (and I could possibly see that - though he might lose more in Scotland whereas Brown held 41 in 2010 so maybe not) I cannot see Labour with a majority under Blair in 2010.

    Winners run out of steam and need replacing. The replacement might not win either (Brown) but leaving things as they are usually guarantee a heavy defeat eventually.
    Has Johnson reached his '1990 Thatcher' or '2007 Blair' point yet?
    I'm not sure, but 2024 just got that little bit harder if he chooses to go for it.
  • MattW said:

    Bizarre from Biden?

    US to demand halt to Nord Stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/d1ed75b0-338f-42f8-836b-f94cb00670ca

    How is he going to enforce that?

    Bomb Berlin?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    The Scottish Tories and their media chums have just spent the last month slagging off vaccine passports, and now their English brethren follow the SG lead.

    Ditto Scottish Labour and WG.
    Ditto WFH.
    Aha! Working from home.

    I think I’m acronymed-out.
    Here's one: Boris can FOAD
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,821

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    Steve Baker will be strapped and heading over to No.10.
  • Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    If it's England only, I guess the SNP won't vote in any case?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692
    edited December 2021

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    Boris would need Labour votes to get Vaxports or further lockdown restrictions through, it could end up being May's Deal all over again.

    If he goes it would be over further lockdown restrictions most of his backbenchers oppose
  • Imposing plan B plus to save your hide surely risks galvanising backbenchers to immediate defenestration?? Caretaker PM by tomorrow?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 2,662
    https://twitter.com/georgegrylls/status/1468533351288123393:

    The Allegra Stratton video is getting short thrift from *Tory* voters in North Shropshire today:

    “I was almost in tears. It was disgraceful."

    “They think people walking the streets are bloody stupid. It’s like the fella saying he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight.”
  • FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I don't think that is true.
    Thatcher was an election winner, but is there anyone who seriously believed she would've managed a better result in 1992 (or 1991) than John Major?

    And whilst we'll never know for certain, would Blair have managed better than Brown in 2010? Even if you think he might've got more seats (and I could possibly see that - though he might lose more in Scotland whereas Brown held 41 in 2010 so maybe not) I cannot see Labour with a majority under Blair in 2010.

    Winners run out of steam and need replacing. The replacement might not win either (Brown) but leaving things as they are usually guarantee a heavy defeat eventually.
    Has Johnson reached his '1990 Thatcher' or '2007 Blair' point yet?
    I'm not sure, but 2024 just got that little bit harder if he chooses to go for it.
    Current best prices:

    NOM 11/8
    Con Maj 6/4 (and lengthening as we speak)
    Lab Maj 6/1
  • Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    Johnson is embarrassing himself, and the Government and the Tories. He has been for about a month now since the ludicrous Paterson stunt blew up.

    But the Tories have been ahead of Labour in most of those polls in that time and Starmer simply isn't up to the job. He should be tearing the Tories a new one, but it wouldn't surprise me if he voted for Plan B instead with the PM. 🤦‍♂️
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    A tweet from Ms Sturgeon with which all PBers can agree -

    "For (brilliant) services to Scottish polling and democracy, support @BallotBoxScot
    if you can. I know it’s a labour of love - but I’m sure all support will be hugely appreciated"


    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1467216562583130115
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Betting post

    There is no such thing as a temporary Prime Minister. So which Tory MP will be appointed PM while a vote for Tory party leader is held or will the party think blow it and just ask Rishi to take the job?

    Rishi is a shoo in.

    Personally, I’d go for Liz Truss, but I just can’t see the Tories going for her in their current swivel-eyed iteration.
    Given you would never vote Tory anyway why should Tories care who you personally prefer?
    Doesn't seem to stop you regularly weighing in on the Labour leadership.
    I say who the polls prefer or who might be electable, not who I would personally prefer as I would never vote Labour
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    So what, we elect a UK government as Scots confirmed in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    Scots voted for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg last-minute bogus deal promising DevoMax. They did not vote for dictatorship.

    Scots expect their democratic choices to be respected. Blackford accurately represents the views of Scotland’s democratic institutions, which have continued support in public opinion.
    Scots got further powers for Holyrood with the Scotland Act 2016
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,668

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking at my own Trusts figures, which do seem fairly representative, we had 95 covid patients yesterday, with 10 on ICU/ECMO. That hasn't really changed much over the last couple of months. It does put significant pressure on the system, so we had twenty or so who had been in the A/E department more than 24 hours yesterday evening.

    It's bad, and probably will get worse over the holidays, but covid is the bale of straw on the Camels back, but not the only thing breaking the system.

    What will really screw things up is staff isolating with omicron or getting stuck abroad, and that looks pretty nailed on.
  • Looks like massive dead cat incoming.

    Jeez, these people think we are all fools.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    The Scottish Tories and their media chums have just spent the last month slagging off vaccine passports, and now their English brethren follow the SG lead.

    Ditto Scottish Labour and WG.
    Ditto WFH.
    Aha! Working from home.

    I think I’m acronymed-out.
    Here's one: Boris can FOAD
    Procreate and expire.

    That’s a 100% certainty. Only the timing is unclear.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,230

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    It would be hilarious/horrifying (delete as applicable) if Johnson is brought down by the SNP voting to prevent England from implementing something that the SNP-led government has already implemented in Scotland.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    Farooq said:

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    If it's England only, I guess the SNP won't vote in any case?
    Depends if there are UK-wide issues such as overseas travel. But they can presumably vote for the relevant bits only.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
  • eekeek Posts: 17,293
    Foxy said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking at my own Trusts figures, which do seem fairly representative, we had 95 covid patients yesterday, with 10 on ICU/ECMO. That hasn't really changed much over the last couple of months. It does put significant pressure on the system, so we had twenty or so who had been in the A/E department more than 24 hours yesterday evening.

    It's bad, and probably will get worse over the holidays, but covid is the bale of straw on the Camels back, but not the only thing breaking the system.

    What will really screw things up is staff isolating with omicron or getting stuck abroad, and that looks pretty nailed on.
    I've liked that but what I actually mean is thanks for the information.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    So what, we elect a UK government as Scots confirmed in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    Scots voted for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg last-minute bogus deal promising DevoMax. They did not vote for dictatorship.

    Scots expect their democratic choices to be respected. Blackford accurately represents the views of Scotland’s democratic institutions, which have continued support in public opinion.
    Scots got further powers for Holyrood with the Scotland Act 2016
    Number one rule of politics: never believe your own propaganda.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    So what, we elect a UK government as Scots confirmed in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    Scots voted for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg last-minute bogus deal promising DevoMax. They did not vote for dictatorship.

    Scots expect their democratic choices to be respected. Blackford accurately represents the views of Scotland’s democratic institutions, which have continued support in public opinion.
    Scots got further powers for Holyrood with the Scotland Act 2016
    Trivial. Not Devomax at all.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I love the smell of democracy in the morning
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 2,662
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    Which one of those categories includes North Shropshire?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    edited December 2021
    Endillion said:

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    It would be hilarious/horrifying (delete as applicable) if Johnson is brought down by the SNP voting to prevent England from implementing something that the SNP-led government has already implemented in Scotland.
    Or for that matter saved by the SNP acting on high principle to avoid voting ...
  • Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    Johnson is embarrassing himself, and the Government and the Tories. He has been for about a month now since the ludicrous Paterson stunt blew up.

    But the Tories have been ahead of Labour in most of those polls in that time and Starmer simply isn't up to the job. He should be tearing the Tories a new one, but it wouldn't surprise me if he voted for Plan B instead with the PM. 🤦‍♂️
    So setting aside Keir Starmer for a moment. As a Tory supporter is your view that Johnson's actions are now past tipping point where his position is untenable?

    Remember that if Liar actually goes then the next PM will be a Tory, and not Starmer. So its not really about Starmer at all, its about right and wrong in the government and whether or not you are willing to keep providing succour for wrong by trying to make it all about Starmer?
  • TOPPING said:

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    Steve Baker will be strapped and heading over to No.10.
    In reality Plan B is nothing much.

    Govt suggests working from home if you can. Big deal, businesses will make their own minds up.

    As for big events, I am going to a medium sized one on Sunday and they have tightened entry requirements this week from the NHS vaccine passport to you have to test negative on the day itself. Venues are already starting to go further than the proposed law. The NHS vaccine passport is not mandatory vaccination to attend anyway, you can use it with a free LFT test instead.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking at my own Trusts figures, which do seem fairly representative, we had 95 covid patients yesterday, with 10 on ICU/ECMO. That hasn't really changed much over the last couple of months. It does put significant pressure on the system, so we had twenty or so who had been in the A/E department more than 24 hours yesterday evening.

    It's bad, and probably will get worse over the holidays, but covid is the bale of straw on the Camels back, but not the only thing breaking the system.

    What will really screw things up is staff isolating with omicron or getting stuck abroad, and that looks pretty nailed on.
    I've liked that but what I actually mean is thanks for the information.
    Ditto. I keep saying it, but we need that commiserate/sympathise button.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692

    Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    The Conservatives were ahead with Comres yesterday, basically the polls are level pegging. Labour are not consistently ahead with a big lead despite it being midterm
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1468305977590140929?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    Which one of those categories includes North Shropshire?
    The Tories often lose seats at by elections and win them back at the general eg Peterborough and Brecon and Radnor in 2019 or Richmond Park in 2017, all of which lost in an earlier by election
  • Looks like massive dead cat incoming.

    Jeez, these people think we are all fools.

    Err, (collectively), we are. Proved time and time again.
  • https://twitter.com/georgegrylls/status/1468533351288123393:

    The Allegra Stratton video is getting short thrift from *Tory* voters in North Shropshire today:

    “I was almost in tears. It was disgraceful."

    “They think people walking the streets are bloody stupid. It’s like the fella saying he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight.”

    "The fella"?

    Ooh, that'll hurt Dom. Back in the day, he was feared and hated, with Star front pages to prove it.

    Now, he's half forgotten as a person. Just the stain remains.
  • Some people here seem to think that Plan B is a "dead cat" or a way to move the story on.

    Not at all, it would be putting salt in the wound. How could they possibly consider imposing new restrictions after laughing and joking about violating the old ones?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 941
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    ...This combination of city densities and thriving centres transforms public transport planning and so has a huge impact on drivers. For example, Leeds and Marseille have a similar population but, according to a recent Centre for Cities report, because Marseille is denser, 87 per cent of people can reach its centre in 30 minutes by public transport, compared with just 38 per cent in Leeds. Indeed, in Europe 67 per cent of people can commute to city centres in 30 minutes, compared with just 40 per cent in Britain. Our scattered cities make public transport trickier and send more of us flocking to our cars. And that time wasted is money wasted. Rome and Manchester are the same size but the Italian capital, despite its notoriously chaotic road traffic, is 55 per cent more productive, “partly because a much larger share of its workforce can travel into the city centre by public transport”."

    (snipped)

    In this, as so many things, we seem to be a half way house between Europe and the US.
    It’s also though a historical feature of the why cities in Europe and the U.K. developed

    As the first industrial nation, cities in the U.K. developed around their industries. Birmingham, Manchester etc all had factories right in the heart of the City Centre. Go back to the 1930s and their populations were concentrated as they had to be close to the factories. When these factories closed, there was no need to be close. Moreover, because factories occupied space close to the city centres, slum clearance meant replacement housing had to be built further out.

    European cities were not designed in the same way. Factories were put in specific districts away from the city centres. It was a lot more planned. Often, population control concerns meant the building of large wide roads which were difficult to barricade against and could allow the rapid deployment of troops.

    Yes, this is true. Noticeable differences in layout. I prefer the European model although it does sometimes mean some pretty ugly suburbs, especially in S Europe (Italy: Centro Storico with the target sign - beautiful; suburbs outside, not so much). The most extreme examples I can think of are in the low countries, e.g. Antwerp: very nice historical centre that feels like you're in a small town; then a vast, really quite breathtaking series of industrial complexes between the city and the sea that are of a scale unlike anything in the UK except possibly Grangemouth.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476
    I can't remember a more crucial PMQs. For Boris it isn't quite life or death but has the potential to push him to the very edge of the precipice. For SKS, he can validate his USP or show he's a failure at what he does best. He is meant to be forensic, so bloody forensicate or get off the pot. Here's a crime, you're a prosecutor.

    *sets alarm for 1159*
  • LBC now reporting that despite No10 yesterday saying they wouldn't have the data to make any decisions on Plan B, they expect that a press conference will happen at teatime to announce the imposition of Plan B...
  • eekeek Posts: 17,293
    edited December 2021
    Endillion said:

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    It would be hilarious/horrifying (delete as applicable) if Johnson is brought down by the SNP voting to prevent England from implementing something that the SNP-led government has already implemented in Scotland.
    The SNP will abstain.

    The question is what does Labour do as I cannot see them gaining anything from voting for them given No 10's party - so I suspect Labour will also abstain and let the Tory party tear itself apart.
  • Unpopular said:

    I think I'm in the minority here, but I think Boris will apologise. Well, he'll try to give a weaselly non-apology in an attempt to deflate Starmer's balloon before PMQs. Whether that is sufficient for the public is a different question.

    ‘I’m sorry if anyone who wasn’t able to be with their dying relatives in their last hours is offended…’
  • Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking at my own Trusts figures, which do seem fairly representative, we had 95 covid patients yesterday, with 10 on ICU/ECMO. That hasn't really changed much over the last couple of months. It does put significant pressure on the system, so we had twenty or so who had been in the A/E department more than 24 hours yesterday evening.

    It's bad, and probably will get worse over the holidays, but covid is the bale of straw on the Camels back, but not the only thing breaking the system.

    What will really screw things up is staff isolating with omicron or getting stuck abroad, and that looks pretty nailed on.
    I've liked that but what I actually mean is thanks for the information.
    Ditto. I keep saying it, but we need that commiserate/sympathise button.
    A like the post but disagree with you button as well!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,334

    I don’t think Boris Johnson has the votes for Vaxports.

    He’d be relying on either SNP abstentions or Starmer’s backing for it to pass.

    Seeing as starmer has always been on the "not enough restrictions" side of things he will be pulling his jackboots at the mere thought of voting in vaxports
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    So what, we elect a UK government as Scots confirmed in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    Scots voted for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg last-minute bogus deal promising DevoMax. They did not vote for dictatorship.

    Scots expect their democratic choices to be respected. Blackford accurately represents the views of Scotland’s democratic institutions, which have continued support in public opinion.
    Scots got further powers for Holyrood with the Scotland Act 2016
    Trivial. Not Devomax at all.
    The income tax changes were significant.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 5,220
    edited December 2021

    eek said:

    Boris is a grade A muppet

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1468528194777145344

    SCOOP: Boris Johnson set to announce Plan B

    Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently - including vaccine passports and working from home.

    Ministers expected sign off proposals at Covid-O meeting.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bd0a637e-3e2b-4637-9548-d9eac1e20838

    This is untenable. People won't follow them. They need a new leader just to enforce those rules.
    Working from home is not a rule. It is a government suggestion, there is zero enforcement possible anyway. Vaccine passports for big venues is already happening in many of them, and others will follow or lose their licenses if the law changes.

    Your point would be true for things like the re-introduction of the rule of six but it is wrong for plan B (assuming plan B is still the same). Face masks were part of plan B but are already in place and people were already making their own decisions on whether to follow or not before the latest scandal.
    It's that I don't necessarily support a potential Plan B, but I don't agree with this at all.

    We're now in a situation where, as long as it remains under Johnson, the government's entire legitimacy to instruct on covid, from the mildest advisories to the most swingeing bans, is completely gone.
  • Vaccine passports remain the work of Satan.

    Vaccines are there to return us to normality, not as an excuse for a government to roleplay as the Chinese Communist Party.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,230

    Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    Johnson is embarrassing himself, and the Government and the Tories. He has been for about a month now since the ludicrous Paterson stunt blew up.

    But the Tories have been ahead of Labour in most of those polls in that time and Starmer simply isn't up to the job. He should be tearing the Tories a new one, but it wouldn't surprise me if he voted for Plan B instead with the PM. 🤦‍♂️
    So setting aside Keir Starmer for a moment. As a Tory supporter is your view that Johnson's actions are now past tipping point where his position is untenable?

    Remember that if Liar actually goes then the next PM will be a Tory, and not Starmer. So its not really about Starmer at all, its about right and wrong in the government and whether or not you are willing to keep providing succour for wrong by trying to make it all about Starmer?
    If it helps you, then, as a Tory supporter (and member) I now take the view (as of this morning) that Johnson's actions are past tipping point, and his position is untenable.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,596
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    Thank god you’re not in charge.
  • Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I love the smell of democracy in the morning
    FPTP creates Untermenschen in FUDHY-world.
  • HYUFD said:

    Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    The Conservatives were ahead with Comres yesterday, basically the polls are level pegging. Labour are not consistently ahead with a big lead despite it being midterm
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1468305977590140929?s=20
    And they were 3% behind with Survation

    You really need to wake up and smell the coffee

    This is a PR disaster for Boris and frankly you are far too complacent or maybe in denial
  • LBC now reporting that despite No10 yesterday saying they wouldn't have the data to make any decisions on Plan B, they expect that a press conference will happen at teatime to announce the imposition of Plan B...

    Letters to the 1922 now.

    If he does this, Boris must go.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,190
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I live in a Red Wall seat. 3 Cyclefree family votes.

    I look forward to my opinion now mattering to the Tory party.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383

    Some people here seem to think that Plan B is a "dead cat" or a way to move the story on.

    Not at all, it would be putting salt in the wound. How could they possibly consider imposing new restrictions after laughing and joking about violating the old ones?

    If you think doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons in the teeth of obvious hypocrisy is beyond this government...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476
    LD 11/10 in NS now. Doesn't look value, but in a couple of hours it might retrospectively do
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,288
    Time for the Tory party to step up and get rid of the c***.
  • Sky breaking

    Senior Government sources tell Sky news PM is minded to move to plan B as early as this week, and he is worried he will regret if he does not move now
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383

    Vaccine passports remain the work of Satan.

    Vaccines are there to return us to normality, not as an excuse for a government to roleplay as the Chinese Communist Party.

    We'll put you down as a maybe
  • Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tory MP this morning - ‘Every lie just compounds the problem. But lying eventually catches people out. Another awful mess created out of Downing St. Question now in tea room is Boris reaching a tipping point - where he is becoming a liability and no longer an asset?’
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1468514849521025026

    How will Boris approach it today? Is his only course the 'independent enquiry by civil servant' route, or does he have another?

    Could a road be developing where only the Tories could win an election, but their chances of doing so depends on going outside the current gang for a leader; which would place Jeremy Hunt near the top. He is the only Tory anywhere in the betting who doesn't have his hands in the gore of Boris's government.

    FWIW I think he is by some way the most credible next leader/next PM apart from SKS.

    Also worth noting is the tone of the BBC R4 Today coverage - with no attempt to say anything other than the government/10 Downing St/Boris has profoundly misled or worse. It feels like a tipping point.

    Would Hunt have won the Redwall in 2019? Probably not. So we would be back to 2017 almost certainly and hung parliament with him or any other Tory leader.

    The only way to keep a Tory majority is the Redwall and the only Tory proven to have won there is Boris
    Even you aren't this stupid.

    "Good old Boris, he'll get Brexit done" of 2019 is not the same political attraction as "lying corrupt clown Boris will keep trousering our money".

    If you think Boris 2021 is the mega political pull that will secure the red wall then you truly are clueless.
    HYUFD increasingly sounds like a Corbynite citing 2017 over 2019.
    HYUFD = Blue rinsed Bastani? Like it.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LD 11/10 in NS now. Doesn't look value, but in a couple of hours it might retrospectively do

    Looks like massive value to me.

    They should be heavy odds-on favourites. I don't see any possible way that the Tories win this seat in a mid-term by-election mired in scandal.

    I wouldn't turn out to vote for this shower of shite. Who would?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Blackford calls for resignation

    The PM "must remove himself from office immediately" if allegations a Christmas party was held in Downing Street during lockdown are true, the SNP's Westminster leader has said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-hotel-quarantine-breaches-human-rights-says-law-firm-as-south-african-president-says-omicron-is-dominating-in-most-provinces-12469075

    Who cares what Blackford thinks
    48% of Scottish voters, according to YouGov/The Times 18-22 Nov.

    And before you point out that that’s not a majority, remember that 80% of Scottish voters intend to vote for the non-Tory parties, according to the same survey.
    So what, we elect a UK government as Scots confirmed in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    Scots voted for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg last-minute bogus deal promising DevoMax. They did not vote for dictatorship.

    Scots expect their democratic choices to be respected. Blackford accurately represents the views of Scotland’s democratic institutions, which have continued support in public opinion.
    Scots got further powers for Holyrood with the Scotland Act 2016
    Trivial. Not Devomax at all.
    The income tax changes were significant.
    But overall nothing remotely like the promised Devomax. And the repudiation of the Sewel Convention was a massive snake to set against that tiny ladder.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383

    Sky breaking

    Senior Government sources tell Sky news PM is minded to move to plan B as early as this week, and he is worried he will regret if he does not move now

    We will all regret it if he doesn't move soon.
    Get the van. Come in number 55, your time is up.
  • LBC now reporting that despite No10 yesterday saying they wouldn't have the data to make any decisions on Plan B, they expect that a press conference will happen at teatime to announce the imposition of Plan B...

    Letters to the 1922 now.

    If he does this, Boris must go.
    Hope you’re not going to do the Big_G hokey-cokey on us?

    You put your right arm in
    Your right arm out
    In, out, in, out
    Shake Boris’s willie all about.

    You do the hokey cokey
    And you turn around
    That's what it's all about
  • eekeek Posts: 17,293

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    10m
    Expected timings on Covid measures
    - Covid-O meeting this afternoon
    - Cabinet meeting 3.30/4pm-ish
    - Press conference 5.30pm-ish
    - Javid statement to Commons 5.30pm-ish
    [Timings still pencilled in at this stage]
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,947
    I would like HMG to have the ability to demand the unvaccinated to shield to the minimum extent and duration necessary to protect the NHS, and with prosecuting powers, but I think this can be done without Vaxports front and centre, but rather the report to police station within 7 days approach already established in society and let venues check status as they see fit.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I have spent 41 years of my 45 living in red wall seats. Campaigning in many of them. For several parties. With a very clear understanding both of these voters and what they are doing (note my immediate hat-tip that Hartlepool was a "nailed on Tory gain")

    And yet you still insist you know more about it than those of us who have these communities in our blood do.

    You are such a clueless spanner you deserve to have been fired from the Cabinet alongside Jenrick and Williamson.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,692
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I live in a Red Wall seat. 3 Cyclefree family votes.

    I look forward to my opinion now mattering to the Tory party.
    Did you vote Tory in 2019? No.

    Your opinion only matters if you not only live in those seats but voted for the Tory MP in 2019 too
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    I see no reason why in the numbers or the data this is needed.

    I've supported all the other changes and restrictions, but they can go screw themselves if they try

    Looking at my own Trusts figures, which do seem fairly representative, we had 95 covid patients yesterday, with 10 on ICU/ECMO. That hasn't really changed much over the last couple of months. It does put significant pressure on the system, so we had twenty or so who had been in the A/E department more than 24 hours yesterday evening.

    It's bad, and probably will get worse over the holidays, but covid is the bale of straw on the Camels back, but not the only thing breaking the system.

    What will really screw things up is staff isolating with omicron or getting stuck abroad, and that looks pretty nailed on.
    I've liked that but what I actually mean is thanks for the information.
    Ditto. I keep saying it, but we need that commiserate/sympathise button.
    A like the post but disagree with you button as well!
    Yes, it's increasingly important to preserve what civility we can on PB.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,165
    edited December 2021
    Bringing in more restrictions would be terrible. I am frankly disgusted.

    Boris needs to go.

    Time for those letters to the 1922.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476

    IshmaelZ said:

    LD 11/10 in NS now. Doesn't look value, but in a couple of hours it might retrospectively do

    Looks like massive value to me.

    They should be heavy odds-on favourites. I don't see any possible way that the Tories win this seat in a mid-term by-election mired in scandal.

    I wouldn't turn out to vote for this shower of shite. Who would?
    You've convinced me. I've lumped 1,000* on

    *pennies
  • Some people here seem to think that Plan B is a "dead cat" or a way to move the story on.

    Not at all, it would be putting salt in the wound. How could they possibly consider imposing new restrictions after laughing and joking about violating the old ones?

    You know that it won't wash. I know that it won't wash. But the inner sanctum around Liar are *so stupid* that they think this is a brilliant wheeze.

    HYUFD thinks its brilliant...
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,383
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I live in a Red Wall seat. 3 Cyclefree family votes.

    I look forward to my opinion now mattering to the Tory party.
    Did you vote Tory in 2019? No.

    Your opinion only matters if you not only live in those seats but voted for the Tory MP in 2019 too
    The Bridge of HYUFD Acceptability is narrow. Only one man has ever crossed it.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LD 11/10 in NS now. Doesn't look value, but in a couple of hours it might retrospectively do

    Looks like massive value to me.

    They should be heavy odds-on favourites. I don't see any possible way that the Tories win this seat in a mid-term by-election mired in scandal.

    I wouldn't turn out to vote for this shower of shite. Who would?
    I would vote Lib Dem next Thursday if I could
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,288
    What's even more stupid is that today we actually had pretty good information on the level of immunity escape that Omicron has, it's much better than was initially feared with two and three doses of vaccine or natural immunity providing a pretty big shield against severe disease. I simply don't see what Plan B achieves in a largely vaccinated or naturally immune population.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I can't really see a good way out of this for the Tories.

    What a mess.

    Boris gets pushed out.
    And the Tories probably face a decade or more in opposition.

    Removing proven election winners rarely works. After forcing Thatcher out the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the next general elections, after Blair went Labour has lost 4 General elections in a row.

    There is a reason non Tories want Boris out as he is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher and also the leader with most appeal to the RedWall. Remove him and Starmer's job becomes easier
    I concur.

    Keep Boris. Please.
    HYUFD as tone death as ever is see.

    HYUFD - I’ve voted conservative. Consistently. Not anymore.

    And there’s plenty more who’ll do the same until Bojo is gone. It was funny when he was mayor and plummeting down zip wires. It stopped being funny when he became prime minister
    Do you live in a RedWall seat or seat in the top 100 Labour targets or a seat in the top 50 LD targets? If not then your opinion does not really matter under FPTP, your seat will stay Tory or Labour anyway however you vote
    I live in a Red Wall seat. 3 Cyclefree family votes.

    I look forward to my opinion now mattering to the Tory party.
    Did you vote Tory in 2019? No.

    Your opinion only matters if you not only live in those seats but voted for the Tory MP in 2019 too
    Bullshit!

    Everyone has a vote and everybody's votes matters. Everyone starts from zero votes when they get counted.

    If anyone's vote didn't matter it'd be yours as someone who never changes how they vote and lives in a safe seat and can be completely taken for granted.
  • Of all the things that this government and its leader has done how curious that the thing that has turned the fanboys against him is that he might, ask, people to work from home, if they can.
  • LBC now reporting that despite No10 yesterday saying they wouldn't have the data to make any decisions on Plan B, they expect that a press conference will happen at teatime to announce the imposition of Plan B...

    Letters to the 1922 now.

    If he does this, Boris must go.
    See! Even you, who has been excusing and deflecting everything else, have your limits.

    Are there any PB Peppa fanbois still clinging to him? Not HYUFD, he doesn't count. Anyone else still think Liar should stay?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LD 11/10 in NS now. Doesn't look value, but in a couple of hours it might retrospectively do

    Looks like massive value to me.

    They should be heavy odds-on favourites. I don't see any possible way that the Tories win this seat in a mid-term by-election mired in scandal.

    I wouldn't turn out to vote for this shower of shite. Who would?
    I would vote Lib Dem next Thursday if I could
    I think I would too.

    If they go to Plan B today I definitely would.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,947
    They can timetable going to Plan B now they've organised this year's Christmas Party.
  • MaxPB said:

    Time for the Tory party to step up and get rid of the c***.

    Why do you care? Boris have a big impact on Zürich?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,261
    Cyclefree said:

    The party - and I would not be in the least bit surprised to find that a number of Cabinet Ministers were present for rather longer than Boris, if indeed he attended it at all - is an amuse bouche to the much more worrying legislation and other proposals coming from this government.

    - The very wide-ranging powers effectively stopping any form of protest
    - The curbs on judicial review
    - The refusal of a Minister yesterday to confirm that the government would remain within the ECHR (something they have always previously done)
    - The powers to take away British passports on a whim from British citizens

    This is a dangerous government. Starmer should not just focus on the PM, easy and fun as it is to do. He needs to nail the Cabinet - who have been complicit in supporting Boris, in destroying the only worthwhile policy this government has (Levelling Up) and who are supporting the above dangerously authoritarian policies.

    Sunak, Patel, Javid, Truss: they all need to be tied to Boris because the reality is that he is PM because these and all the other Tory MPs crying their crocodile tears now supported him.

    This would be a mistake I think.
    Corruption & Tories breaking the rules is an issue that unites the voters Starmer needs.

    Attacking Johnson's plans on rescinding British passports & authoritarianism is just talking to people who are going to vote Labour/Lib Dem anyway.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,596

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson embarrassing himself, Labour ahead in the polls?

    Labour is the problem, useless opposition! This is the Tory script for today

    The Conservatives were ahead with Comres yesterday, basically the polls are level pegging. Labour are not consistently ahead with a big lead despite it being midterm
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1468305977590140929?s=20
    And they were 3% behind with Survation

    You really need to wake up and smell the coffee

    This is a PR disaster for Boris and frankly you are far too complacent or maybe in denial
    HFUYD embodies the red wall. They love dodgy Christmas parties and the prioritisation of dogs over humans in Afghanistan
  • Sky breaking

    Senior Government sources tell Sky news PM is minded to move to plan B as early as this week, and he is worried he will regret if he does not move now

    Just watch. When they all emerge from the fridge, the reason they will give for their total absence today is that they were entirely focused on this very serious matter.
This discussion has been closed.