Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Let's use this for all laws we don't like, murder etc
I posted before that Desmond Swayne is encouraging effectively civil disobedience on TV this morning.
Why hasn’t Boris removed the whip?
I fucking hate masks, but if I was a Tory MP I’d not got about flouting the law.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
hasnt that always been the case with flu ? Sometimes life is about living and not just about not dying (which everyone does)
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
And could be liable for manslaughter by unlawful act. The state may not have the right to impose diktats, but it does have the power.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Let's use this for all laws we don't like, murder etc
well you can kid yourself that you obey all laws which I seriously doubt anyone does (even lawmakers) - If you drive a car no doubt you have speeded or maybe even parked in an illegal spot or drunk drove at some point. Although intrigued why you dont like the murder law ? even myself who thinsk we have far too many laws agrees with the murder law
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
Sir Keir Starmer is a friend of the North, unlike Boris the Bastard, Harrier of the North.
Labour's revamped top team has 12 northern MPs compared to four in Boris Johnson's cabinet - interesting to see if this has any impact on Keir Starmer's bid to win back heartland voters that deserted the party in 2019, more in today's @NorthernAgenda_
Don’t tell BJO, the one-man member of the pressure group “Corbynistas for Boris”.
BJO is entirely inconsistent. Seems to hate Starmer but think Corbyn did a great job despite losing twice. But thinks Burnham who polls worse than Starmer and was terrible in 2015, is the answer
But Burnham, as a Mayor, does everything Khan's detractors say he doesn't do. He also wins by an absolute street, polling hugely above his Party. The very opposite of the London mayor. He does this in 2021. A different politics altogether to 2015.
I don't understand I am afraid. Khan polls very well in London and won re-election by a greater margin than Johnson did
Putting aside polling for a second, Burnham is a great and passionate advocate for his city.
Khan behaves like a supply teacher who is taking 7F for a particular dull session of RE. He does not appear to have any interest in London.
He does his best whilst Central Government destroys London from the outside
Sadly, both things are true.
He is boring and not up to it, AND Boris attempts to destroy London from the outside.
Sir Keir Starmer is a friend of the North, unlike Boris the Bastard, Harrier of the North.
Labour's revamped top team has 12 northern MPs compared to four in Boris Johnson's cabinet - interesting to see if this has any impact on Keir Starmer's bid to win back heartland voters that deserted the party in 2019, more in today's @NorthernAgenda_
Don’t tell BJO, the one-man member of the pressure group “Corbynistas for Boris”.
Some on the Labour left have fallen into the territory that many Labour centrists fell into during Corbyn's time - rooting for bad polls and electoral defeat.
Sir Keir Starmer is a friend of the North, unlike Boris the Bastard, Harrier of the North.
Labour's revamped top team has 12 northern MPs compared to four in Boris Johnson's cabinet - interesting to see if this has any impact on Keir Starmer's bid to win back heartland voters that deserted the party in 2019, more in today's @NorthernAgenda_
Don’t tell BJO, the one-man member of the pressure group “Corbynistas for Boris”.
BJO is entirely inconsistent. Seems to hate Starmer but think Corbyn did a great job despite losing twice. But thinks Burnham who polls worse than Starmer and was terrible in 2015, is the answer
But Burnham, as a Mayor, does everything Khan's detractors say he doesn't do. He also wins by an absolute street, polling hugely above his Party. The very opposite of the London mayor. He does this in 2021. A different politics altogether to 2015.
I don't understand I am afraid. Khan polls very well in London and won re-election by a greater margin than Johnson did
Sir Keir Starmer is a friend of the North, unlike Boris the Bastard, Harrier of the North.
Labour's revamped top team has 12 northern MPs compared to four in Boris Johnson's cabinet - interesting to see if this has any impact on Keir Starmer's bid to win back heartland voters that deserted the party in 2019, more in today's @NorthernAgenda_
Don’t tell BJO, the one-man member of the pressure group “Corbynistas for Boris”.
BJO is entirely inconsistent. Seems to hate Starmer but think Corbyn did a great job despite losing twice. But thinks Burnham who polls worse than Starmer and was terrible in 2015, is the answer
But Burnham, as a Mayor, does everything Khan's detractors say he doesn't do. He also wins by an absolute street, polling hugely above his Party. The very opposite of the London mayor. He does this in 2021. A different politics altogether to 2015.
I don't understand I am afraid. Khan polls very well in London and won re-election by a greater margin than Johnson did
Putting aside polling for a second, Burnham is a great and passionate advocate for his city.
Khan behaves like a supply teacher who is taking 7F for a particular dull session of RE. He does not appear to have any interest in London.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I have been into three shops, including Pret, this morning, and nobody was wearing masks.
Mask fatigue? Secret Reform UK supporters? Nobody got the message?
As above though, I think the fear on Omicron might be overdone. What very little evidence we have suggests that while vaccines are less effective against it, it is not more likely to send you to hospital and it may even be more mild than Delta.
It is prudent to be cautious until we know more.
There's general Corona fatigue among those of us that venture out of our houses. I think the perennially scared are just sitting in their front rooms curtain twitching and tutting at people not wearing masks as they pass by on the road.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Jenny Harries is normally bang on message. Incoming correction from her later I suspect.
Edit. Just heard on WATO that she's been slapped down "she advises the Government, but doesn't speak for it".
Instinctively, this pronouncement from Jenny Harries gets my back up. Who is she to tell me who to socialise with, etc? But a) she's right, technically - if I want to avoid catching diseases I should socialise less, and more importantly b) I suspect there's some sort of out-of-context thing going on - perhaps this is a line which was teased out of her by a journalist which seemed sensible to her until the moment it appeared on paper.
So I will moderate my ire and cut her some slack.
Still, after spending the last six months shuffling back reluctantly towards the mark, the state is getting very very keen to massively overstep the mark once again.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Do you also drive without wearing a seat-belt?
No because that is sensible enough in that it prevents injury . Facemaks have no proven effect in the real world or at least the ones we are "ordered " to wear. If somebody feels the need to be protected they can buy a surgical one . I am not living in a world where you are told what to wear on your face and told to cover it up on the pretence of a illness no more dangerous than flu and when masks do sod all (look at scotland , wales etc same case rates or higher) . The downside is a huge increase in morale loss and that is not worth paying
The real point here is that, love him or loathe him, Tony Blair handled Diana's death superbly. He was the supreme statesman, who managed to speak for the nation. There are many (perhaps himself included) who felt he saved the royal family.
As I say, I've never liked the man but he was great Prime Minister. And the reason for his soaring popularity in the relevant passage of time, which is what began this discussion, is in large part because he was bloody brilliant at the time of Diana's death.
I fear that the frothing PT knee-jerked without adequately considering his response.
A bid you all adieu for the day. I don't like argumentativeness and what I posted about Tony Blair at Diana's death really, in any sane setting, would merely invoke nodding agreement. From Left or Right.
If you dont like argumentativeness maybe stop insulting the forum saying it is not a sane setting etc
I am hereby stipulating that nodding agreement is the appropriate response to everything I post.
The real point here is that, love him or loathe him, Tony Blair handled Diana's death superbly. He was the supreme statesman, who managed to speak for the nation. There are many (perhaps himself included) who felt he saved the royal family.
As I say, I've never liked the man but he was great Prime Minister. And the reason for his soaring popularity in the relevant passage of time, which is what began this discussion, is in large part because he was bloody brilliant at the time of Diana's death.
I fear that the frothing PT knee-jerked without adequately considering his response.
A bid you all adieu for the day. I don't like argumentativeness and what I posted about Tony Blair at Diana's death really, in any sane setting, would merely invoke nodding agreement. From Left or Right.
If you dont like argumentativeness maybe stop insulting the forum saying it is not a sane setting etc
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Do you also drive without wearing a seat-belt?
No because that is sensible enough in that it prevents injury . Facemaks have no proven effect in the real world or at least the ones we are "ordered " to wear. If somebody feels the need to be protected they can buy a surgical one . I am not living in a world where you are told what to wear on your face and told to cover it up on the pretence of a illness no more dangerous than flu and when masks do sod all (look at scotland , wales etc same case rates or higher) . The downside is a huge increase in morale loss and that is not worth paying
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Let's use this for all laws we don't like, murder etc
I posted before that Desmond Swayne is encouraging effectively civil disobedience on TV this morning.
Why hasn’t Boris removed the whip?
I fucking hate masks, but if I was a Tory MP I’d not got about flouting the law.
Agreed, but it's hardly a surprise when Tory MPs are revolting.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Just went to Tescos. 100% mask compliance. Except me. I had a stupid bandana half on half off pathetic really.
Thank you for your post. I will henceforth not wear masks for the reason you have described.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Or how about sorry I contributed to the general misery of life by trussing myself up and never risking anything and never going out of my way to help other or to give them some joy in case it might somehow kill them . If only we could just not be born at all or have to meet other humans then nobody would die
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Well, yes, you can always leap to an extreme example. But my point was the opposite - that there is a balance to be struck between impositions and their effectiveness in what they are trying to do/loss of freedom on the imposed. I would argue that the effectiveness/loss of freedom ratio of 20mph limits outside schools is high, while the effectiveness/loss of freedom ratio of masks is low. (Particularly in a world where all of us who want to be have been jabbed). Where I would draw the line would be somewhere between the two. Ultra-libertarians would draw it somewhere to the right of your example; you would probably draw it somewhere to the left of the masks example.
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
I don't buy this analogy. Avoid running someone over and you probably save them from ever being run over; avoid Covid cases now, in a population where the vast majority of people are vaccinated and as immune as they're ever going to be and the virus is never going to be eliminated, and you just delay the day everyone catches it.
I happily wear a mask as I know it reassures other people and is really not uncomfortable particularly on cold winter days, but I have no illusions that I'm making any kind of contribution to national public health in doing so.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Or how about sorry I contributed to the general misery of life by trussing myself up and never risking anything and never going out of my way to help other or to give them some joy in case it might somehow kill them . If only we could just not be born at all or have to meet other humans then nobody would die
Well you're not exactly a bundle of laughs this morning, or indeed this afternoon.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Its your choice whether to follow the law or engage in civil disobedience, just as it always has been.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Well, up to a point. Our democratically elected representatives aren't actually getting a vote in this. Democracy has been a little bit lacking these last 20 months.
PB advice please: Could someone explain to me what "necessary socialising" is?
Y/N
A) Going to round to girlfriend's place Board games night with 8 friends C) Christmas party with only 4 colleagues D) Hogmanay party with 12 friends E) Hillwalking with 5 friends
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Good grief! What a hypothetical. How can anyone ever know? We really have to stop trying to find someone to blame.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Or how about sorry I contributed to the general misery of life by trussing myself up and never risking anything and never going out of my way to help other or to give them some joy in case it might somehow kill them . If only we could just not be born at all or have to meet other humans then nobody would die
Well you're not exactly a bundle of laughs this morning, or indeed this afternoon.
well yes becasue my morale is low especially about the mask law as i suspect it is the same for a lot of freedom loving people. As I said I dont enjoy breaking the law but I have to on this otherwise a miserable society will ensue with no social interaction for a long long time given covid is here and it is staying.It is the one thing I can do and feel it is right to do
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
Yeah. I get it philosophically. I just don't get the visceral nature of it. To me it is a "no jacket no entry" issue.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
What if you are on the motorway, can't stop, and see a woman being attacked on the hard shoulder.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
So important Tory people like you shouldn't have to bear the discomfort of wearing a mask in public.
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Well, up to a point. Our democratically elected representatives aren't actually getting a vote in this. Democracy has been a little bit lacking these last 20 months.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Let's use this for all laws we don't like, murder etc
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
I couldn't give a toss whether you obey the law on using a handheld device whilst driving. What I would say is that if you ever did make a mistake, you may have to live with the consequences.
Perhaps I will spread COVID, or flu, or something else by not wearing a mask. But I'll never know and nor will anyone else. COVID laws can only ever be about the macro. As long as people are going in and out of each other's houses, masks on trains or in shops will make no difference whatsoever.
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
From my observations this morning, there is a huge contrast between the % saying they support it, and the % actually wearing masks....
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Did you not go out if you had a cold or the flu in any of the several decades you have been alive? Are you absolutely sure you have not given anyone the flu who might have died of it? 30,000 people a year die of "flu & pneumonia". Have you been wearing a mask these past years?
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
even if you are right and I doubt it speaking with people i know , I am not obsessed with parroting what the public think as I make up my own mind on things and actually will have that mind whether 1% or 99% agree with me . I always think its a stupid argument to diss somebodys opinion as not being what the majority think - I mean are we sheep?
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
You really are sanctimonious aren't you.
The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.
There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Its your choice whether to follow the law or engage in civil disobedience, just as it always has been.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
We still don't know whether it is legally mandated and what exemptions there are. Nothing on the gov website yet.
Well your instinct is always "Lockdown now" so I know who you think is right! BTW, you were passionate about the need for Plan B a while ago - do you think we should have gone down that route? Personally I think we are still on the correct path, but not everyone agrees.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Or how about sorry I contributed to the general misery of life by trussing myself up and never risking anything and never going out of my way to help other or to give them some joy in case it might somehow kill them . If only we could just not be born at all or have to meet other humans then nobody would die
Well you're not exactly a bundle of laughs this morning, or indeed this afternoon.
well yes becasue my morale is low especially about the mask law as i suspect it is the same for a lot of freedom loving people. As I said I dont enjoy breaking the law but I have to on this otherwise a miserable society will ensue with no social interaction for a long long time given covid is here and it is staying.It is the one thing I can do and feel it is right to do
I think that extremely unlikely. The mask law will very likely be in force only a few weeks - and is a proportionate response to the news of the new variant, until we have some definitive data on how serious it is (also a matter of only a few weeks).
Huge moment. ‘An appalling atrocity,' says Prince Charles of transatlantic slavery. No British royal - or Prime Minister - has come as close to apologising for the 250 years of state-sanctioned exploitation and murder. #Barbados https://t.co/gMBibgB3QY
Costs little, but I'm still not a fan. When/where do you draw the line? Should the Italians apologise for the Roman empire? How about the Egyptians enslaving the people of Israel? If you personally have done something wrong, then apologising is the right thing. When our ancestors did something to their ancestors, I'm not so sure.
If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion, you also don't revel in the glories of a country unless you partook at least in some small way.
I'm ok with that, but not with those who celebrate their country's greatness without also feeling shame for her squalor.
Thankfully we haven't constructed an honours system based around the British Empire under which much of the horrors of transantlantic slavery took place.
We haven't, right?
I was struck by Duke of Rothesay’s speech in Barbados. I cannot recall a member of the British Establishment being so clear on the disgraceful role played by said Establishment in the slave trade.
Maybe he’ll not be such a poor monarch after all?
Well, over the years, he has indulged in such stupid irrelevancies as cross-cultural relations, the environment and housing.
And made some people very angry because he wrote letters to ministers asking about the same.
If he manages to wind up Tories I might become a fan of the Rothesays.
Do you realise (or care) how pretentious you sound using his Scottish title?
Coming from Charles, the Great Pretender/Name Dropper, I’ll take that as a backhanded compliment.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
So important Tory people like you shouldn't have to bear the discomfort of wearing a mask in public.
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
So important Tory people like you shouldn't have to bear the discomfort of wearing a mask in public.
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
You can do as you please. If you're prepared to share oxygen with maskless perfectly normal people in a public space then that's how life works. I'm not demanding you change your lives, you can do as you please, just don't force your beliefs on others.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Its your choice whether to follow the law or engage in civil disobedience, just as it always has been.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
We still don't know whether it is legally mandated and what exemptions there are. Nothing on the gov website yet.
PM up at 4. Maybe we'll find out then? Assuming he's made a decision yet, that is.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
You really are sanctimonious aren't you.
The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.
There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
Horrible isn't it. The seek to blame. Based, I'm sure, on extreme utilitarian thinking, which seems to have a grip on some of the ideological left. No allowance for intent, all about consequences. No one - no one - is intending to give someone Covid FFS. What an unpleasant country we live in.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Same of flu. You could always have killed people inadvertently. We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Sorry I ran over your child, but the imposition of driving under 20mph past the school at 15.20 was too great and in any case the state has no right to impose "dictaks" like this. Can you pay for my new windscreen please? This one has a radial shatter and a little blood on it.
Or how about sorry I contributed to the general misery of life by trussing myself up and never risking anything and never going out of my way to help other or to give them some joy in case it might somehow kill them . If only we could just not be born at all or have to meet other humans then nobody would die
Well you're not exactly a bundle of laughs this morning, or indeed this afternoon.
well yes becasue my morale is low especially about the mask law as i suspect it is the same for a lot of freedom loving people. As I said I dont enjoy breaking the law but I have to on this otherwise a miserable society will ensue with no social interaction for a long long time given covid is here and it is staying.It is the one thing I can do and feel it is right to do
I think that extremely unlikely. The mask law will very likely be in force only a few weeks - and is a proportionate response to the news of the new variant, until we have some definitive data on how serious it is (also a matter of only a few weeks).
That is likely in England but events in Scotland show it does depend on a mix of who is in power and public opinion rather than inevitable. People making a fuss about wearing masks now are reducing the chance of it being extended longer than appropriate, even if they are being a bit childish, imo.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
So important Tory people like you shouldn't have to bear the discomfort of wearing a mask in public.
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
You can do as you please. If you're prepared to share oxygen with maskless perfectly normal people in a public space then that's how life works. I'm not demanding you change your lives, you can do as you please, just don't force your beliefs on others.
No I can't. You've just told me I have to stay at home. I won't force my beliefs on you if you promise not to cough and gob Covid and mucous all over me.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Its your choice whether to follow the law or engage in civil disobedience, just as it always has been.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
We still don't know whether it is legally mandated and what exemptions there are. Nothing on the gov website yet.
PM up at 4. Maybe we'll find out then? Assuming he's made a decision yet, that is.
Interesting. At this rate there could be more restrictions I find myself horrified to write.
Yes, interesting thread. Thanks for posting. What there certainly doesn't seem to be is any evidence that it's any worse than delta (so far). Indeed, as cases are outpacing delta, but admissions are only in line with beta, that provides some early evidence that it might be milder.
Shamelessly cherry picked from the thread:
• For cases to be rising faster while admissions are on same pace may hint at a lower proportion of severe disease
• Share of patients in ICU currently much lower than same stage of Delta wave, but may change if cases spread from being mainly young. Or may not, which would suggest T and B cells kicking in 🤞
Quite right the GP surgery got taken to the cleaners, but will the GPs actually suffer any loss as normal business owners would here - or is the practice suddenly in the taxpayer/public domain when it comes to stuff like this...
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Did you not go out if you had a cold or the flu in any of the several decades you have been alive? Are you absolutely sure you have not given anyone the flu who might have died of it? 30,000 people a year die of "flu & pneumonia". Have you been wearing a mask these past years?
Dura lex sed ita scripta. If the law changes the consequences of your acts and omissions change, and infecting someone because of unlawful masklessness becomes manslaughter.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
I couldn't give a toss whether you obey the law on using a handheld device whilst driving. What I would say is that if you ever did make a mistake, you may have to live with the consequences.
Perhaps I will spread COVID, or flu, or something else by not wearing a mask. But I'll never know and nor will anyone else. COVID laws can only ever be about the macro. As long as people are going in and out of each other's houses, masks on trains or in shops will make no difference whatsoever.
I hear you , but of the three methods of virus transmission - surface, aerosol and large droplets - masks reduce the risk of infection via large droplets at least, surely? My concern is that if you tell everyone to wear masks, I'm certain that this unwittingly green-lights some with symptomatic Covid to think it is ok to go out with a mask on when they shouldn't be going out at all.
"What do you think about Angela Rayner not appearing to know about the reshuffle?"
"I've been around for lots of reshuffles. The gaffer picks the team and that's that"
That's Red Wall talk right there. I reckon Nandy will be good in her new role.
However, Cooper, Thornberry, Streeting, Lammy who were all promoted yesterday wouldnt have a clue about Red Wall voters
Not sure I agree. Cooper has a Red Wall seat so I doubt she'd be clueless. And Streeting to me has lots of Red Wall energy. Lammy is no London luvvie either. Thornberry, ok, but she's only in a minor job. Her ability merits something bigger and maybe it's because she's considered offputting to voters in northern target seats that she hasn't got it.
BJO also forgot Bridget Phillipson. Born and bred in the NE, MP for a Sunderland seat. Very solid Red Wall credentials, and very voter-friendly.
JERUSALEM, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The new coronavirus variant, Omicron, has been detected in two Israeli doctors, one of whom had returned from a conference in London in the past week, a spokesperson for Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv confirmed on Tuesday.
The two doctors had received three doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine, and so far have shown mild COVID-19 symptoms, the hospital said.
The physician who had returned from Britain had probably infected his colleague, it said.
And as i mentioned earlier Blair has a completely uneventful first 2 years, nothing happened of any note
Huh??!!??
Independence for the Bank of England 1997 National Minimum Wage Act 1998 Good Friday Agreement 1998 Northern Ireland Act 1998 Scotland Act 1998 Government of Wales Act 1998 etc
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
I hate wearing masks, but if there is the vaguest benefit from doing so, well so be it.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
If you don't want people breathing near you then don't go out.
So important Tory people like you shouldn't have to bear the discomfort of wearing a mask in public.
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
You can do as you please. If you're prepared to share oxygen with maskless perfectly normal people in a public space then that's how life works. I'm not demanding you change your lives, you can do as you please, just don't force your beliefs on others.
No I can't. You've just told me I have to stay at home. I won't force my beliefs on you if you promise not to cough and gob Covid and mucous all over me.
JERUSALEM, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The new coronavirus variant, Omicron, has been detected in two Israeli doctors, one of whom had returned from a conference in London in the past week, a spokesperson for Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv confirmed on Tuesday.
The two doctors had received three doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine, and so far have shown mild COVID-19 symptoms, the hospital said.
The physician who had returned from Britain had probably infected his colleague, it said.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Its your choice whether to follow the law or engage in civil disobedience, just as it always has been.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
We still don't know whether it is legally mandated and what exemptions there are. Nothing on the gov website yet.
PM up at 4. Maybe we'll find out then? Assuming he's made a decision yet, that is.
Interesting. At this rate there could be more restrictions I find myself horrified to write.
Either that or it will be jolly along boosterism. Or both of course.
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Did you not go out if you had a cold or the flu in any of the several decades you have been alive? Are you absolutely sure you have not given anyone the flu who might have died of it? 30,000 people a year die of "flu & pneumonia". Have you been wearing a mask these past years?
Dura lex sed ita scripta. If the law changes the consequences of your acts and omissions change, and infecting someone because of unlawful masklessness becomes manslaughter.
Lovely society you seem to relish - Black Mirror has nothing on you!
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Did you not go out if you had a cold or the flu in any of the several decades you have been alive? Are you absolutely sure you have not given anyone the flu who might have died of it? 30,000 people a year die of "flu & pneumonia". Have you been wearing a mask these past years?
Dura lex sed ita scripta. If the law changes the consequences of your acts and omissions change, and infecting someone because of unlawful masklessness becomes manslaughter.
I know it's only a subset of Conservative activists, but to have Truss, Frost, Trevelyan and Dorries as the top four suggests they have lost the plot.
I'd think the same if an equivalent Labour survey in 2019 had Pidcock, Burgon, Abbott and Lavery in the top four positions - which was plausible back then.
Two out of four have done an absolutely fantastic job.
The third I'm not sure about, the fourth is simply amusing because of how apoplectic she drives opponents.
Cabinets are a team building exercise and most PMs seem to find it useful to have a Minister for stupidity who makes everyone else feel better about themselves. Its a morale thing, I think. After the departure of Williamson there was a vacancy and Mad Nad seems destined to fill it.
Culture is something Britain is very good at. An example of soft power. Media is vital in the world we live in. And sport too matters.
All 3 deserve a Cabinet Minister of real clout, intelligence and standing not the office joke. This government has cut spending on arts education thus styming opportunities for the young. Culture is not an optional extra. It is vital to a rounded education, an intelligent nation, a country's well being, a country which punches above its weight. That a government led by a man who boasts about his knowledge of the classics and had one of the best educations money can buy should appoint an ignorant dimwit like Dorries to the role is depressing.
Why do we no longer aspire to anything beyond the second-rate at best?
As for the Shadow Cabinet, pleased about Streeting and Philippson. Let's see what they make of their new roles. Cooper has been forensic in her demolition of Patel in Select Committees. But she now has the infinitely harder task of coming up with a migration/refugee policy which is both popular and effective. Is she up to it?
As for Lammy, am in 2 minds about him. He can be very good on some things. But he can also be an arse on others. His recent statements about womens bodies and women "hoarding rights" like dinosaurs has marked him down considerably in my eyes.
Starmer has not been good at choosing people so far. His initial instincts have been poor and he has had to make quite a few changes in 2 years. That is not a great sign of someone who is good at assessing people. May be it is because he felt forced to do so. I'm not sure about that. Still let's see.
Yet Dorries is a best selling author.
It may not be an aspect of culture some are interested in but culture should encompass the widest range of things and isn't only for those with a knowledge of the classics and expensive educations.
Of course - but do you really claim that Dorries' interest in culture is anywhere near so broad ?
I wouldn't know and don't care.
But it reeks of the snobbishness which considers Harold Pinter more important than Coronation Street.
Many of the things now regarded as cultural exports from the Beatles to football were looked down on not long ago.
And it still happens - Iron Maiden have been a huge UK cultural export for decades but you'll struggle to find references to them in the media's cultural sections.
And if you go back to Shakespeare wasn't he sneered at for having 'little Latin and no Greek' ? Or you might say for not having a broad interest in culture.
Nadine doesn’t need to be Alan Yentob. But she could start by not calling journalists “fuckwits” on Twitter.
She also appears - judging by her comments about Ch 4 - to not have the slightest clue what she’s doing.
Exaggeration?
I think she called one journo - James O'Brien - a "public school fuckwit", which seems fair enough and very defensible for accuracy in the knockabout commentary stakes.
That might be your level for ministerial gravitas, it’s not mine.
Nadine Dorries is an incompetent fool and way out of depth as a government minister. Talking like that to members of the media is inappropriate for someone of her position, but I think on this occasion an exception can be made given just how much a fuckwit James O'Brien is. He just reeks of twattishness. Can you imagine having to sit in a pub with him for more than an hour?
It was also nearly 5 years ago - 2017 - that she posted it.
On topic. At first glance at header you think oh my God, how did Mark Spencer upset so many people? And second glance you see they think Truss, Frost, Trevellyn, and Naddine Dorries are so bloody brilliant, after that you can’t stop laughing. 😂
Why even bother to report this poll? Cats are probably more sensible and discerning, why not show the photos to cats and see if they meow?
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
From my observations this morning, there is a huge contrast between the % saying they support it, and the % actually wearing masks....
Indeed. Revealed preference. The Labour Conference was the ultimate example of that.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
JERUSALEM, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The new coronavirus variant, Omicron, has been detected in two Israeli doctors, one of whom had returned from a conference in London in the past week, a spokesperson for Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv confirmed on Tuesday.
The two doctors had received three doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine, and so far have shown mild COVID-19 symptoms, the hospital said.
The physician who had returned from Britain had probably infected his colleague, it said.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
Is this going to be a never ending survey of which laws I obey and which i dont? It was once the law in Germany that Jews had to wear a yellow star- Are you telling me laws have to be obeyed because they are well the law? Cue some knob talking about godwins law no doubt
JERUSALEM, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The new coronavirus variant, Omicron, has been detected in two Israeli doctors, one of whom had returned from a conference in London in the past week, a spokesperson for Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv confirmed on Tuesday.
The two doctors had received three doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine, and so far have shown mild COVID-19 symptoms, the hospital said.
The physician who had returned from Britain had probably infected his colleague, it said.
"What do you think about Angela Rayner not appearing to know about the reshuffle?"
"I've been around for lots of reshuffles. The gaffer picks the team and that's that"
That's Red Wall talk right there. I reckon Nandy will be good in her new role.
However, Cooper, Thornberry, Streeting, Lammy who were all promoted yesterday wouldnt have a clue about Red Wall voters
Not sure I agree. Cooper has a Red Wall seat so I doubt she'd be clueless. And Streeting to me has lots of Red Wall energy. Lammy is no London luvvie either. Thornberry, ok, but she's only in a minor job. Her ability merits something bigger and maybe it's because she's considered offputting to voters in northern target seats that she hasn't got it.
BJO also forgot Bridget Phillipson. Born and bred in the NE, MP for a Sunderland seat. Very solid Red Wall credentials, and very voter-friendly.
Phillipson? You mean who came from a typical, middle class public-sector background and then went to Oxford? Yup, sure she relates to many of the C1 etc types.
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
From my observations this morning, there is a huge contrast between the % saying they support it, and the % actually wearing masks....
Indeed. Revealed preference. The Labour Conference was the ultimate example of that.
The question should really be "what do you want everyone else to do but not do yourself?"
In 16 years of reading and posting on PB I have never known such a significant chunk of posters completely misjudge the public mood as they have with masks and other Covid restrictions.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
From my observations this morning, there is a huge contrast between the % saying they support it, and the % actually wearing masks....
Indeed. Revealed preference. The Labour Conference was the ultimate example of that.
Presumably, people support everyone else being made to wear masks, rather than being delighted about having to wear one themselves.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Of course we should disobey laws we believe are total nonsense. All the people who for example think cannabis shouldn't be criminalised do it everytime they light up.
For example if our elected representatives to use an extreme example passed a law saying you had to slap a ginger haired person everytime you saw one would you really do it? I know I wouldn't. To many of us mask wearing seems pretty much as pointless.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
Is this going to be a never ending survey of which laws I obey and which i dont? It was once the law in Germany that Jews had to wear a yellow star- Are you telling me laws have to be obeyed because they are well the law? Cue some knob talking about godwins law no doubt
In a democracy individuals should actively resist certain laws because the laws are wrong. Other laws will be widely ignored because they are trivial and burdensome. Other laws will be widely ignored through ignorance.
Not sure why any of that is vaguely controversial so it is unfair you are getting grief on that.
However whether a legal obligation to wear a mask in certain public spaces, which is not enforced anyway, is something worthy of getting so upset about is a different matter.
I wonder what people here would be saying if Corbyn had advocated civil disobedience for laws he didn't like
Depends what the law is. I think masks are utterly pointless unless you're in hard lockdown and doing everything possible to get cases under control. For that reason, I will not wear one no matter what the idiots in Westminster say.
Really??? Whether to obey the law depends on your view on whether it's a good idea? "The idiots in Westminster" are our democratically-elected government, specifically elected to pass laws that apply to us all. I was fine with talking on my mobile while driving and did a huge amount of work that way, and genuinely don't think it distracted me - less than fiddling with the car radio. The only reason I no longer do it is that a law has been passed. Should I ignore it?
Of course we should disobey laws we believe are total nonsense. All the people who for example think cannabis shouldn't be criminalised do it everytime they light up.
For example if our elected representatives to use an extreme example passed a law saying you had to slap a ginger haired person everytime you saw one would you really do it? I know I wouldn't. To many of us mask wearing seems pretty much as pointless.
"What do you think about Angela Rayner not appearing to know about the reshuffle?"
"I've been around for lots of reshuffles. The gaffer picks the team and that's that"
That's Red Wall talk right there. I reckon Nandy will be good in her new role.
However, Cooper, Thornberry, Streeting, Lammy who were all promoted yesterday wouldnt have a clue about Red Wall voters
Not sure I agree. Cooper has a Red Wall seat so I doubt she'd be clueless. And Streeting to me has lots of Red Wall energy. Lammy is no London luvvie either. Thornberry, ok, but she's only in a minor job. Her ability merits something bigger and maybe it's because she's considered offputting to voters in northern target seats that she hasn't got it.
BJO also forgot Bridget Phillipson. Born and bred in the NE, MP for a Sunderland seat. Very solid Red Wall credentials, and very voter-friendly.
I saw Bridget Phillipson on the news and she didn’t answer a single question and was 210% on message. I thought she wasn’t a real person but a bot hologram Labour have invented, a bit like Holly from Red Dwarf but not as intelligent.
So she’s not an on message algorithm hologram thing then, a real person who can walk about and such?
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
Let's use this for all laws we don't like, murder etc
I posted before that Desmond Swayne is encouraging effectively civil disobedience on TV this morning.
Why hasn’t Boris removed the whip?
I fucking hate masks, but if I was a Tory MP I’d not got about flouting the law.
BoJo can tell Harries off- Harries is a hired help and can't do any damage to BoJo.
BoJo can't tell Swayne off, any more than he could tell Paterson off. The PM is there at the pleasure of Conservative MPs; annoy them enough and they can do him a lot of damage.
And a non-trivial number of Conservative MPs and supporters probably agree with Swayne.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
Is this going to be a never ending survey of which laws I obey and which i dont? It was once the law in Germany that Jews had to wear a yellow star- Are you telling me laws have to be obeyed because they are well the law? Cue some knob talking about godwins law no doubt
Just for the record, "Godwin's Law" hasn't actually been passed by Parliament, so you don't have to follow it - and certainly not as assiduously as you did in the above post.
Just seen an elderly-ish Chinese guy cycle past on our busy-ish road with a facemask AND a full-face plastic visor. No cycle helmet though.
Now I'm not one of those who advocates compulsory cycle helmets. Wear one - don't wear one. I don't mind, and am not consistent myself. But I'd suggest he's guarding against the wrong risk.
Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.
Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises? Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?
I'm also yet to be convinced that masks really make any difference to the overall picture. If they did then COVID rates in Wales wouldn't be higher than those in England, countries like Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands etc... who held onto mask mandates wouldn't also have had surging case rates in the last few weeks either.
The mask stuff really feels like one of those "let's make sure we were seen to be doing something" kinds of policies geared towards the future inquiry question - "and what precise action did the government take to combat Omicron?" rather than a measure that will make any significant difference to infection, hospitalisation or death rates.
People can bang on about seatbelts or anything else under the sun, we're all going to get COVID at some point, more than once, I'm unsure what masks will particularly do to change that, they certainly won't prevent any infections from occurring and it's not even clear that they will significantly slow the progress of the virus. It's more likely that some people want to feel superior to others, more virtuous and they get off on the idea that those less virtuous than them are killing old people and running over kids because they refused to wear a seatbelt.
Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.
Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises? Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?
What levelling up? Lucky enough local authorities have been given £10-20m to spend on local projects and should be both grateful and ensuring delivery before the next election.
And that's it.
As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.
I'm also yet to be convinced that masks really make any difference to the overall picture. If they did then COVID rates in Wales wouldn't be higher than those in England, countries like Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands etc... who held onto mask mandates wouldn't also have had surging case rates in the last few weeks either.
The mask stuff really feels like one of those "let's make sure we were seen to be doing something" kinds of policies geared towards the future inquiry question - "and what precise action did the government take to combat Omicron?" rather than a measure that will make any significant difference to infection, hospitalisation or death rates.
People can bang on about seatbelts or anything else under the sun, we're all going to get COVID at some point, more than once, I'm unsure what masks will particularly do to change that, they certainly won't prevent any infections from occurring and it's not even clear that they will significantly slow the progress of the virus. It's more likely that some people want to feel superior to others, more virtuous and they get off on the idea that those less virtuous than them are killing old people and running over kids because they refused to wear a seatbelt.
Colleague of mine is on her second Covid. She picked it up during lockdown first time out (she thinks from an ATM or petrol station). Not sure about this time.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
Is this going to be a never ending survey of which laws I obey and which i dont? It was once the law in Germany that Jews had to wear a yellow star- Are you telling me laws have to be obeyed because they are well the law? Cue some knob talking about godwins law no doubt
In a democracy individuals should actively resist certain laws because the laws are wrong. Other laws will be widely ignored because they are trivial and burdensome. Other laws will be widely ignored through ignorance.
Not sure why any of that is vaguely controversial so it is unfair you are getting grief on that.
However whether a legal obligation to wear a mask in certain public spaces, which is not enforced anyway, is something worthy of getting so upset about is a different matter.
I think the state telling you to cover your face is a pretty big deal, actually. I understand the reason for it, though I'm somewhat sceptical. But understanding the reason doesn't make it a small thing. We used to look down on this sort of thing when Middle Eastern states made their women do it.
It just doesn't sit well for me. A bit like non-religious people getting married in church, and mentioning God in their vows, when they don't believe in God. Bit fake.
Yeah, I did that. Do I get let off because I did it for my wife and she is a believer? Our children are baptised, too.
(I do also know and get on with the vicar really well and the pre-marriage church workshops did change some things for us - complete pooling of finances where we previously had joint account only for shared bills)
Personal choice. I could not do it as I would have been making the most important commitment of my life and lying for part of it. Happily for me my wife thinks the same as me. You made your choice to make your wife happy.
Agree. I couldn't either as I would feel a hypocrite but I have no objection to those non believers who do as I don't feel the hypocrisy is really that bad, after all you don't believe so it just becomes an event and is not real. My wife's family do this. It is a celebration of the event for them. It does however seem a bit disrespectful of those performing the service though.
I am happy to sit in a church for someone else's wedding and christening. I don't take part in prayers etc, but I don't make it obvious that I think it is all nonsense.
Yep. I made sure the vicar was aware of my lack of belief. He was happy to go ahead.
The pastorate in the CofE have beliefs nearly as varied as the congregation.
The CoE is endearingly open-minded and almost nobody finds it offensive but it's not exactly seen as a coherent religious entity - only 3% of young people declare it as their religion of choice. It's more a systemic default, which people who don't really believe in much can turn to in order to give a spiritual dimension to births, marriages and deaths. It's a bit like (I imagine) accepting an MBE if you're a republican - you aren't thereby endorsing the system, merely accepting the honour from the people who currently issue such things.
I got married in a chapel because my wife wanted it and St Mary Undercroft in the Commons is such a lovely place. God can sue me if he wants to.
We got married there as well - lovely chapel - and had a full nuptial mass which was simply beautiful
Just seen an elderly-ish Chinese guy cycle past on our busy-ish road with a facemask AND a full-face plastic visor. No cycle helmet though.
Now I'm not one of those who advocates compulsory cycle helmets. Wear one - don't wear one. I don't mind, and am not consistent myself. But I'd suggest he's guarding against the wrong risk.
A bit like people are more likely to die in the car journey to the airport than in a plane crash and yet the fear is of the latter rather than the former.
Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop. Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.
Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
Answer this then - covid willl be here for the rest of your lifetime - when will your argument not hold sway then - are you going to support the govenment telling people to wear masks forever?
Do you also drive without an MOT? Insurance perhaps?
Is this going to be a never ending survey of which laws I obey and which i dont? It was once the law in Germany that Jews had to wear a yellow star- Are you telling me laws have to be obeyed because they are well the law? Cue some knob talking about godwins law no doubt
If you can wear a seatbelt when you're in a car, you can wear a mask whenever you're shopping.
And as i mentioned earlier Blair has a completely uneventful first 2 years, nothing happened of any note
Erm. The most significant single death of the past century, a nation plunged into mourning, a royal family in crisis.
It was an earthquake the like of which this country hadn't experienced outside of wars and pandemics.
And handled bloody brilliantly by Tony Blair.
More significant than JFK being shot? Or Hitler killing himself.
I did not know her, I felt sorry for her kids, but her death had absolutely no impact on peoples work, social life, holidays etc etc. Compare that with Covid
The day of her funeral did impact lives of the country/jobs/social life.
Most shops didn't open until 2pm so staff could watch her funeral.
Holidays were impacted as getting down to London was a nightmare the Friday and Saturday.
The motorways were clogged/shut for the journey to Althorp.
I wouldn't know - we went to France for the day to avoid all the hassle. The only piece of the funeral we saw was 10 seconds in a cafe in St Omar..
I polished the car.
Before the crash, presumably? It was working fine when you left it? No one from MI5 asked you to do anything to it?
Comments
We could always do more to stop spreading diseases, but at some point it becomes disproportionate and the impositions outweigh the gains.
Why hasn’t Boris removed the whip?
I fucking hate masks, but if I was a Tory MP I’d not got about flouting the law.
"The state has no right to impose diktats"...? The maskless fat b****** in M&S at lunchtime had no right to casually cough in my face as he walked past either.
He is boring and not up to it, AND Boris attempts to destroy London from the outside.
Better than Johnson, is enough for me
But a) she's right, technically - if I want to avoid catching diseases I should socialise less, and more importantly b) I suspect there's some sort of out-of-context thing going on - perhaps this is a line which was teased out of her by a journalist which seemed sensible to her until the moment it appeared on paper.
So I will moderate my ire and cut her some slack.
Still, after spending the last six months shuffling back reluctantly towards the mark, the state is getting very very keen to massively overstep the mark once again.
Yet it never came up as an issue as most people understand the concept of civil disobedience and never objected to that.
Likes are also acceptable.
Thank you for your post. I will henceforth not wear masks for the reason you have described.
Polls show massive public support - right across the political spectrum.
And the fact support is so similar irrespective of which party people support shows the vast majority don't see it as a political issue. They just see it as basic common sense.
Yet a very small but vociferous minority have whipped themselves up into a state of hysteria with arguments along the lines of "freedom".
Well we're not free to not pay taxes, we're not free to not even wear seatbelts. We're not even free to choose to die (something which has no impact on anyone else at all).
Masks are such a trivial thing - putting one on for a few minutes when in a high risk situation is just basic human decency, which most people wouldn't dream of treating as some kind of political issue.
I happily wear a mask as I know it reassures other people and is really not uncomfortable particularly on cold winter days, but I have no illusions that I'm making any kind of contribution to national public health in doing so.
May we never live in a Police State where the law must be obeyed at all times.
As it happens for the next week weeks despite my deep misgivings I will obey the law and mask up where it is legally mandated, but only where it is. I'll stick with this while the boosters are given out, if once the booster programme has been done the law is still in place I might engage in civil disobedience if the law isn't lifted.
I just don't get the visceral nature of it.
To me it is a "no jacket no entry" issue.
Would you call the police?
However scumbag mask-wearing filth like me should keep out of your way completely by staying at home if we don't want maskless hero patriots gobbing Covid and flu all over us?
Perhaps I will spread COVID, or flu, or something else by not wearing a mask. But I'll never know and nor will anyone else. COVID laws can only ever be about the macro. As long as people are going in and out of each other's houses, masks on trains or in shops will make no difference whatsoever.
The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.
There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
The mask law will very likely be in force only a few weeks - and is a proportionate response to the news of the new variant, until we have some definitive data on how serious it is (also a matter of only a few weeks).
Assuming he's made a decision yet, that is.
Shamelessly cherry picked from the thread:
• For cases to be rising faster while admissions are on same pace may hint at a lower proportion of severe disease
• Share of patients in ICU currently much lower than same stage of Delta wave, but may change if cases spread from being mainly young. Or may not, which would suggest T and B cells kicking in 🤞
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/gp-manager-who-won-294-000-after-pregnancy-sack-awarded-another-20k/ar-AARiutL?ocid=entnewsntp#comments
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https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1465676619767595017?s=21
The two doctors had received three doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine, and so far have shown mild COVID-19 symptoms, the hospital said.
The physician who had returned from Britain had probably infected his colleague, it said.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/two-israeli-doctors-infected-omicron-112705353.html
Independence for the Bank of England 1997
National Minimum Wage Act 1998
Good Friday Agreement 1998
Northern Ireland Act 1998
Scotland Act 1998
Government of Wales Act 1998
etc
Or both of course.
Why even bother to report this poll? Cats are probably more sensible and discerning, why not show the photos to cats and see if they meow?
Which is why we need to panic be cautious for 2-3 weeks until we know how severe typical symptoms are.
But who are you addressing your statement to, because it’s the clever boffins and experts who are doing the panic?
For example if our elected representatives to use an extreme example passed a law saying you had to slap a ginger haired person everytime you saw one would you really do it? I know I wouldn't. To many of us mask wearing seems pretty much as pointless.
Not sure why any of that is vaguely controversial so it is unfair you are getting grief on that.
However whether a legal obligation to wear a mask in certain public spaces, which is not enforced anyway, is something worthy of getting so upset about is a different matter.
*KIDDING*
So she’s not an on message algorithm hologram thing then, a real person who can walk about and such?
BoJo can't tell Swayne off, any more than he could tell Paterson off. The PM is there at the pleasure of Conservative MPs; annoy them enough and they can do him a lot of damage.
And a non-trivial number of Conservative MPs and supporters probably agree with Swayne.
No cycle helmet though.
Now I'm not one of those who advocates compulsory cycle helmets. Wear one - don't wear one. I don't mind, and am not consistent myself. But I'd suggest he's guarding against the wrong risk.
Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises?
Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?
The mask stuff really feels like one of those "let's make sure we were seen to be doing something" kinds of policies geared towards the future inquiry question - "and what precise action did the government take to combat Omicron?" rather than a measure that will make any significant difference to infection, hospitalisation or death rates.
People can bang on about seatbelts or anything else under the sun, we're all going to get COVID at some point, more than once, I'm unsure what masks will particularly do to change that, they certainly won't prevent any infections from occurring and it's not even clear that they will significantly slow the progress of the virus. It's more likely that some people want to feel superior to others, more virtuous and they get off on the idea that those less virtuous than them are killing old people and running over kids because they refused to wear a seatbelt.
And that's it.
As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.