Betting on another CON majority – Part 2 – politicalbetting.com
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When did I ever say 'wokeness' is a made up concept?MrEd said:
I’m very happy with @Benpointer’s view. The more the left clings to the view is that wokeness is a made up concept, the more they will get hammered at the next elections both in the U.K. and USCharles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered
What has been invented by the Right is "The Woke" as some malevolent social engineering sect.
Just read the wiki entry, it is spot on about woke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke1 -
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.0 -
All this reminds me of MultiCulturalism.Benpointer said:
How does that prove the existence of The Woke as an entitity?Charles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered
'Head teacher of exclusive private school implementing some crazy ideas and forced to resign' is hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.
"That one wacky instance doesn't mean there is any such thing as MultiCultrailism in the real world"
and at the same time
"If you are against MultiCultuiralism, you are against multiple cultures in the same country. Therefore you are literally Hitler."0 -
Yeah he'd go down well in the Red Wall. 😂😂😂😂HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
If you don't like Truss just say so, stop trying to drag us in as an argument on your behalf.1 -
Pass the sick bucket.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.6 -
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.5 -
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
The Israelis have consistently been amongst the best at testing, tracing, treating, vaccination and so on. That they have reacted the way they have suggests that they see a potential catastrophe, even if they are still as uncertain as the rest of the world.FrancisUrquhart said:The thing about the Israelis, highly technically advanced in medicine and computer science....I would put a lot more faith on them than the plonkers from Warwick University or Professor Pantsdown with their models using massively outdated ML.
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Thanks - you've ruined my evening.vino said:
As long as Boris is there - he can do no wrongBenpointer said:
How long do you think Brexit will continue to drive your fellow allotment holders' voting for?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit
But I do believe you've highlighted the way a sector of the country feels about Johnson. Sadly.1 -
Why bother even reading his shite? It’s obvious he’s a crank conspiracy theoristTimS said:
The bizarre thing is he usually goes in for extreme doom mongering, so the upbeat article today was a bit out of character.Charles said:
Zerohedge is funded by the Russians to spread misinformation to the credulousAnabobazina said:
That’s just the same story from the lady who was on Marr this morning, albeit with an absolutely bizarre conspiracy theory edge to the reporting.Andy_JS said:This is a different person to the one we already know about, I think.
"@zerohedge
Omicron Is "Extremely Mild" Says Doctor Who First Discovered Strain As Numerous Mutations "Destabilize" The Virus"
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1465016467125149701
I can only assume ‘Zero Hedge’ is a bit of a plum.0 -
Woke has never really been the right thing to describe the underlying philosophy of the more nuttier examples. Intersectionality is actually the framework which is the root of this, and which the nuttier examples take way too far, that everybody and everything is some how rooted in oppression, discrimination and power dynamics. And then that everything is a hierarchy of who is more oppressed or discriminated than others.
Which then leads some to see absolutely everything through that lens and also how it is then ok to discriminate against one person who belongs to a particular group, because another is more oppressed or marginalized e.g. the academic at Sussex, its ok to hound a female lesbian academic because she is making statements which trans people disagree with.0 -
See Labour vote in Ashfield DC election results 2021Gallowgate said:
Well the polling says otherwise, never mind your sample size of 5.vino said:
As long as Boris is there - he can do no wrongBenpointer said:
How long do you think Brexit will continue to drive your fellow allotment holders' voting for?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit0 -
In the event that Boris is defenestrated or demits office of his own accord, what do you think of the chances that a low-key John Major-like figure emerges? Someone like Steve Barclay or Ben Wallace for example?HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
0 -
Yebbut JRM is a Catholic* - how can he be a true Tory in HY's eyes?eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
(*Yes I know Johnson is too, nominally, but let's be honest no one thinks he takes it seriously)0 -
The funny thing is HYUFD has a hard on for these mythical Red Wall voters he's invented in his head who never voted Tory before but are the hardest of hardcore Tories in his eyes - rather than viewing those voters as persona non grata.eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.0 -
YepMrEd said:
I’m very happy with @Benpointer’s view. The more the left clings to the view is that wokeness is a made up concept, the more they will get hammered at the next elections both in the U.K. and USCharles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered0 -
Wasn't she an SDPer? You'll have to join Tice and Farage if such a wokester becomes Tory leader.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.0 -
So was HYUFD if memory serves...HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.5 -
personae non gratae ;-)Philip_Thompson said:
The funny thing is HYUFD has a hard on for these mythical Red Wall voters he's invented in his head who never voted Tory before but are the hardest of hardcore Tories in his eyes - rather than viewing those voters as persona non grata.eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.1 -
Didn't Boris once stand as an SDPer?eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.0 -
There are plenty of Catholic conservatives, you can be a Catholic conservative in the UK as long as you back the Monarchy as Head of the Church of England as JRM and Boris do.Benpointer said:
Yebbut JRM is a Catholic* - how can he be a true Tory in HY's eyes?eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
(*Yes I know Johnson is too, nominally, but let's be honest no one thinks he takes it seriously)
0 -
Biden doesn't have a majority to expand the court, Joe Manchin won't vote for it.bigjohnowls said:
As many as he wants prior to mid terms. After that no.Benpointer said:
Is there a SCOTUS vacancy imminent?moonshine said:
The telegraph today has a theory that Biden will send Kamala to SCOTUS so he can have a second go at succession planning.Leon said:
Yes, that sounds about right. 15% of the country but about 70% of really active Labour members and MPsFrankBooth said:Matthew Goodwin made a good point on the woke/social justice issue. Around 15% of the population in the UK has a negative view of Britain/it's past etc. They are disproportionately vocal on social media, in universities and generally very censorious in their behaviour. Labour probably needs the support of a lot of them but if they pander to these voters they're doomed.
This is why they cannot win, at the moment. The Dems are in a similar position in America, and entirely reliant on Trump standing again to have a chance in 20240 -
If I remember correctly, they were world beating in keeping it under control, but had to turn off their app because people were complaining it was basically state spying (even though everybody knows they do that already).glw said:
The Israelis have consistently been amongst the best at testing, tracing, treating, vaccination and so on. That they have reacted the way they have suggests that they see a potential catastrophe, even if they are still as uncertain as the rest of the world.FrancisUrquhart said:The thing about the Israelis, highly technically advanced in medicine and computer science....I would put a lot more faith on them than the plonkers from Warwick University or Professor Pantsdown with their models using massively outdated ML.
In my experience of computer science / machine learning world, Israeli academics punch miles above their weight, consistently pumping out top quality papers.0 -
It's probably why he hates himself so much.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So was HYUFD if memory serves...HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.2 -
Burnham polls worse than Starmer in literally every waybigjohnowls said:
I would like Andy Burnham but I suspect SKS will now make it impossible for him to become a by election candidate as he would be such an obvious replacement for SKS if he did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Who would you like instead of Starmer?bigjohnowls said:
You are in for a terrible realisation after the next GE.CorrectHorseBattery said:Wondered when BJO would be back to say Starmer must resign.
Leading in polls and more popular than Johnson, still let's get Corbyn back and give the Tories another landslide
Who said owt about get Corbyn back?0 -
He belongs with Tice every bit as much as Rochdale belongs with the SNP.Mexicanpete said:
Wasn't she an SDPer? You'll have to join Tice and Farage if such a wokester becomes Tory leader.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.0 -
What do you think the allotment holders think will change in their lives now we have Boris and Brexit?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit0 -
I am not putting myself forward as a leader designed to appeal to the RedWall like Truss would be.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So was HYUFD if memory serves...HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
I also have always backed the monarchy unlike Truss and I was never a member of the LDs unlike Truss either0 -
Austria reports 1st case of new coronavirus variant, 30 suspected cases
Its here, its there, its every f##king where, Ohhhhh Mike Ron.....1 -
Haha! You're pissing into the wind, and the wind is: the long sweep of human history.Leon said:
YepMrEd said:
I’m very happy with @Benpointer’s view. The more the left clings to the view is that wokeness is a made up concept, the more they will get hammered at the next elections both in the U.K. and USCharles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered
Carry on pissing but you're going to get drenched!0 -
Because having a 100% voting record for the Conservatives is exactly what is important in RedWall circles. 🤦♂️HYUFD said:
I am not putting myself forward as a leader designed to appeal to the RedWall like Truss would be.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So was HYUFD if memory serves...HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
I also have always backed the monarchy unlike Truss and I was never a member of the LDs unlike Truss either1 -
If there was one Tory leader who could make me vote Reform UK it would be Truss.Mexicanpete said:
Wasn't she an SDPer? You'll have to join Tice and Farage if such a wokester becomes Tory leader.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
I would probably vote Conservative as usual but I would have serious hesitations before putting the cross on my ballot paper0 -
Sorry - but as I said in my first post a lot of posters here do not understand how popular Boris is despite being a buffoonBenpointer said:
Thanks - you've ruined my evening.vino said:
As long as Boris is there - he can do no wrongBenpointer said:
How long do you think Brexit will continue to drive your fellow allotment holders' voting for?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit
But I do believe you've highlighted the way a sector of the country feels about Johnson. Sadly.0 -
Israel is turning the mobile phone tracking back "on" to deal with Omicron.FrancisUrquhart said:
If I remember correctly, they were world beating in keeping it under control, but had to turn off their app because people were complaining it was basically state spying (even though everybody knows they do that already).glw said:
The Israelis have consistently been amongst the best at testing, tracing, treating, vaccination and so on. That they have reacted the way they have suggests that they see a potential catastrophe, even if they are still as uncertain as the rest of the world.FrancisUrquhart said:The thing about the Israelis, highly technically advanced in medicine and computer science....I would put a lot more faith on them than the plonkers from Warwick University or Professor Pantsdown with their models using massively outdated ML.
In my experience of computer science / machine learning world, Israeli academics punch miles above their weight, consistently pumping out top quality papers.0 -
Apart from the non-use of contraception.Benpointer said:
Yebbut JRM is a Catholic* - how can he be a true Tory in HY's eyes?eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
(*Yes I know Johnson is too, nominally, but let's be honest no one thinks he takes it seriously)
He's pretty strict on that bit.1 -
Tory majority nailed on then if you get driven to driving for those cranks.HYUFD said:
If there was one Tory leader who could make me vote Reform UK it would be Truss.Mexicanpete said:
Wasn't she an SDPer? You'll have to join Tice and Farage if such a wokester becomes Tory leader.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
I would probably vote Conservative as usual but I would have serious hesitations before putting the cross on my ballot paper
0 -
Historically speaking, they might vote Truss if she is the Socialist you claim.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
A Papist!HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
Now you have shocked me!1 -
Fair point.vino said:
Sorry - but as I said in my first post a lot of posters here do not understand how popular Boris is despite being a buffoonBenpointer said:
Thanks - you've ruined my evening.vino said:
As long as Boris is there - he can do no wrongBenpointer said:
How long do you think Brexit will continue to drive your fellow allotment holders' voting for?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit
But I do believe you've highlighted the way a sector of the country feels about Johnson. Sadly.1 -
Except in Greater Manchester of course.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Burnham polls worse than Starmer in literally every waybigjohnowls said:
I would like Andy Burnham but I suspect SKS will now make it impossible for him to become a by election candidate as he would be such an obvious replacement for SKS if he did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Who would you like instead of Starmer?bigjohnowls said:
You are in for a terrible realisation after the next GE.CorrectHorseBattery said:Wondered when BJO would be back to say Starmer must resign.
Leading in polls and more popular than Johnson, still let's get Corbyn back and give the Tories another landslide
Who said owt about get Corbyn back?0 -
Nothing - He got Brexit sorted out that's all that countsrottenborough said:
What do you think the allotment holders think will change in their lives now we have Boris and Brexit?vino said:Hi Tim,
I’d like to meet one of these legendary salt-of-the-earth red wall voters some day. They appear to have very well known and homogenous views on all current political issues, despite their varied ages, socio-economic levels and prior voting records.
If you are ever in the Nottingham area I will take you down my allotment where at least 5 of my close neighbours are former Labour voters - now they vote Ashfield Independents in the locals and Boris in the nationals - why? Brexit0 -
So is the King of the North not so popular these days?0
-
Johnson could lose narrowly his majority in 2023/24 if he dips below 10% ahead of Starmer in the best PM rating. Theresa May was 9% ahead of Corbyn by that metric in the last poll before 2017. Although The Tories are still likely to end up on around 315 seats and will likely carry on.
Starmer's problem is he has struggled to get more than 30-35% in the best PM rating and I can't see that changing.0 -
I haven't read that, but if that's true, I would put that down as another red flag......glw said:
Israel is turning the mobile phone tracking back "on" to deal with Omicron.FrancisUrquhart said:
If I remember correctly, they were world beating in keeping it under control, but had to turn off their app because people were complaining it was basically state spying (even though everybody knows they do that already).glw said:
The Israelis have consistently been amongst the best at testing, tracing, treating, vaccination and so on. That they have reacted the way they have suggests that they see a potential catastrophe, even if they are still as uncertain as the rest of the world.FrancisUrquhart said:The thing about the Israelis, highly technically advanced in medicine and computer science....I would put a lot more faith on them than the plonkers from Warwick University or Professor Pantsdown with their models using massively outdated ML.
In my experience of computer science / machine learning world, Israeli academics punch miles above their weight, consistently pumping out top quality papers.0 -
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
0 -
Here's an exclusive private school head teacher talking a lot of sense on the subject:Malmesbury said:
All this reminds me of MultiCulturalism.Benpointer said:
How does that prove the existence of The Woke as an entitity?Charles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered
'Head teacher of exclusive private school implementing some crazy ideas and forced to resign' is hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.
"That one wacky instance doesn't mean there is any such thing as MultiCultrailism in the real world"
and at the same time
"If you are against MultiCultuiralism, you are against multiple cultures in the same country. Therefore you are literally Hitler."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/dismiss-children-woke-will-give-dreams-headteacher-warns/0 -
So it seemsdixiedean said:
Apart from the non-use of contraception.Benpointer said:
Yebbut JRM is a Catholic* - how can he be a true Tory in HY's eyes?eek said:
Liz Truss was once a Lib Dem - so in HYUFD’s world she’s persona non grataSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
(*Yes I know Johnson is too, nominally, but let's be honest no one thinks he takes it seriously)
He's pretty strict on that bit.0 -
I think if Corbyn hadn't been up against Johnson, he'd have not won a large majority. Probably Cameron repeat at best, is my gut feeling0
-
Booster for ALL over 18s...much shorter gap between second dose.1
-
1
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True that Kim Campbell was grossly over-promoted and ended up going splat in spectacular fashion in 1993 general election.Philip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
However, that defeat was NOT her fault, it was a massive vote AGAINST her predecessor, Brian Mulroney - the same guy who scored a landslide majority in 1988.
I remember both of these elections quite well. In 1988 yours truly drove up from West Virginia to Ontario, and visited the local riding headquarters of all three main candidates - Liberal, NDP and Progressive Conservative) in the Niagara Falls riding. Mulroney was riding high and signs of impending Tory victory were everywhere, including in the atmosphere at all three campaign offices.
In 1993, I drove up from Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia a few weeks before the election. The mood was quite different. Then the words on every other lip were "Lyin' Brian" and the fact that Kim Campbell was a fresh, young-ish face from BC cut no ice there or anywhere else.
Interestingly the last hurrah of the formerly-dominant provincial BC Social Credit Party had taken place two years earlier in 1991. At that time disgraced Premier Bill Vander Zalm was replaced by Rita Johnson. She went on to lose that year's provincial election big-time; her party was reduced to a wretched rump in the legislature and has never recovered, being replaced provincially on the center-right by the BC Liberals (a separate organization the federal Liberal Party that is dominated by people who are Tories federally).
0 -
It's a good question though. In the event that BoJo does blow up, who keeps the current Conservative coalition together?MrEd said:
I’m going to agree with @HYUFD here, I don’t think Truss is going to appeal to them, she comes across as the sort of Conservative leader who would backslide on Brexit by saying how important it is to sign trade deals with Europe. She also comes across as a middle class “I know what’s best” type which also wouldn’t go down well.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Not Rishi, because he will cut spending to balance the books and cut taxes. Red Wallers won't like spending cuts.
Not Liz, too libertarian.
Who is there, apart from BoJo, with the degree of chutzpah to keep both Hartlepool and Hampshire on board?1 -
Every adult in Britain will be offered third Covid jab within WEEKS1
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for posting any old rubbish without even thinking about it.Leon said:
Is PB really critting me for being faintly optimistic?!FrancisUrquhart said:
Come you know the deal. It takes time for it to feed through to hospitalizations. A week ago positivity was low, now its 10%.Leon said:
I'm talking about the hospital/ICU statsFrancisUrquhart said:
Its a Sunday in a country that doesn't test that much....Leon said:
That doesn't look like a cytokine storm of the South African state. It actually looks like an infectious new strain with no increased virulence. Modestly encouragingFrancisUrquhart said:South Africa COVID update:
- New cases: 2,858
- Average: 1,975 (+310)
- Positivity rate: 9.8% (+0.6)
- In hospital: 2,232 (+3)
- In ICU: 231 (-2)
- New deaths: 6
- Average: 32 (+1)
Jeeez Denise0 -
An urgent hunt for contacts of the three UK cases continued today as members of a church congregation and staff, customers and delivery workers at a KFC outlet have been told to get a PCR test for the Omicron variant after it was detected in Brentwood.
Essex County Council said the targeted testing affects anyone who visited the KFC in Brentwood High Street on November 19, between 1pm and 5pm. The authority said it also affects people who attended Trinity Church in Pilgrims Hatch on November 21.0 -
Hope you are well Ian, thanks for your kind words of late.IanB2 said:
for posting any old rubbish without even thinking about it.Leon said:
Is PB really critting me for being faintly optimistic?!FrancisUrquhart said:
Come you know the deal. It takes time for it to feed through to hospitalizations. A week ago positivity was low, now its 10%.Leon said:
I'm talking about the hospital/ICU statsFrancisUrquhart said:
Its a Sunday in a country that doesn't test that much....Leon said:
That doesn't look like a cytokine storm of the South African state. It actually looks like an infectious new strain with no increased virulence. Modestly encouragingFrancisUrquhart said:South Africa COVID update:
- New cases: 2,858
- Average: 1,975 (+310)
- Positivity rate: 9.8% (+0.6)
- In hospital: 2,232 (+3)
- In ICU: 231 (-2)
- New deaths: 6
- Average: 32 (+1)
Jeeez Denise1 -
PritiStuartinromford said:
It's a good question though. In the event that BoJo does blow up, who keeps the current Conservative coalition together?MrEd said:
I’m going to agree with @HYUFD here, I don’t think Truss is going to appeal to them, she comes across as the sort of Conservative leader who would backslide on Brexit by saying how important it is to sign trade deals with Europe. She also comes across as a middle class “I know what’s best” type which also wouldn’t go down well.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Not Rishi, because he will cut spending to balance the books and cut taxes. Red Wallers won't like spending cuts.
Not Liz, too libertarian.
Who is there, apart from BoJo, with the degree of chutzpah to keep both Hartlepool and Hampshire on board?0 -
I understand Jeremy Corbyn is at a loose end at the moment.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss5 -
It wasn't, Mulroney was a charismatic leader who won 2 landslides victories in 1984 and 1988. Indeed he was the most successful Canadian Conservative leader since WW2 and indeed still is, having won 2 majorities to Harper's 1.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
True that Kim Campbell was grossly over-promoted and ended up going splat in spectacular fashion in 1993 general election.Philip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
However, that defeat was NOT her fault, it was a massive vote AGAINST her predecessor, Brian Mulroney - the same guy who scored a landslide majority in 1988.
I remember both of these elections quite well. In 1988 yours truly drove up from West Virginia to Ontario, and visited the local riding headquarters of all three main candidates - Liberal, NDP and Progressive Conservative) in the Niagara Falls riding. Mulroney was riding high and signs of impending Tory victory were everywhere, including in the atmosphere at all three campaign offices.
In 1993, I drove up from Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia a few weeks before the election. The mood was quite different. Then the words on every other lip were "Lyin' Brian" and the fact that Kim Campbell was a fresh, young-ish face from BC cut no ice there or anywhere else.
Interestingly the last hurrah of the formerly-dominant provincial BC Social Credit Party had taken place two years earlier in 1991. At that time disgraced Premier Bill Vander Zalm was replaced by Rita Johnson. She went on to lose that year's provincial election big-time; her party was reduced to a wretched rump in the legislature and has never recovered, being replaced provincially on the center-right by the BC Liberals (a separate organization the federal Liberal Party that is dominated by people who are Tories federally).
Campbell however not only led the PCs to a landslide defeat she also enabled it to be so bad a defeat she lost most of her core vote to the Canadian Reform Party who overtook the PCs as the main party of the right, winning more votes and seats than the PCs did.0 -
My sense is that Priti is very, very unpopular in the Blue WallSandyRentool said:
PritiStuartinromford said:
It's a good question though. In the event that BoJo does blow up, who keeps the current Conservative coalition together?MrEd said:
I’m going to agree with @HYUFD here, I don’t think Truss is going to appeal to them, she comes across as the sort of Conservative leader who would backslide on Brexit by saying how important it is to sign trade deals with Europe. She also comes across as a middle class “I know what’s best” type which also wouldn’t go down well.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Not Rishi, because he will cut spending to balance the books and cut taxes. Red Wallers won't like spending cuts.
Not Liz, too libertarian.
Who is there, apart from BoJo, with the degree of chutzpah to keep both Hartlepool and Hampshire on board?1 -
I never said she was a Socialist, she is a Libertarian Liberal which is also not a ConservativeMexicanpete said:
Historically speaking, they might vote Truss if she is the Socialist you claim.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
Why? Tories were originally crypto-Catholic royalistsSandyRentool said:
A Papist!HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
Now you have shocked me!0 -
Didn't realise you were so anti-Truss.HYUFD said:
If there was one Tory leader who could make me vote Reform UK it would be Truss.Mexicanpete said:
Wasn't she an SDPer? You'll have to join Tice and Farage if such a wokester becomes Tory leader.HYUFD said:
JRM I can swoon over as he is actually a conservative unlike TrussSandyRentool said:I'm surprised at HY having such a downer on The Truss.
She's exactly the sort of swivel eyed loon that I thought he'd drool over.
I would probably vote Conservative as usual but I would have serious hesitations before putting the cross on my ballot paper0 -
By the way, who was it who posted this morning that ‘The Wheel of Time’ wasn’t all tits and dragons?
I watched an episode earlier, and there weren’t any!
What a waste of an hour.1 -
In other news, horse owners were urged to shut their stable doors after a herd was seen wandering down the High Street.FrancisUrquhart said:An urgent hunt for contacts of the three UK cases continued today as members of a church congregation and staff, customers and delivery workers at a KFC outlet have been told to get a PCR test for the Omicron variant after it was detected in Brentwood.
Essex County Council said the targeted testing affects anyone who visited the KFC in Brentwood High Street on November 19, between 1pm and 5pm. The authority said it also affects people who attended Trinity Church in Pilgrims Hatch on November 21.1 -
Why would you not want to vote for a Tory leader because of their views on Brexit when you agree with those views.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
It could have been worse, you could have tried watching the Beatles documentary, an hour of watching them tootling trying to play the same chorus inbetween Paul McCartney ordering his lunch.IanB2 said:By the way, who was it who posted this morning that ‘The Wheel of Time’ wasn’t all tits and dragons?
I watched an episode earlier, and there weren’t any!
What a waste of an hour.0 -
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
0 -
The polling evidence that Starmer is crap seems to have evaporated so the consensus now is that Starmer is crap because he just is.
The person he should be compared against is Cameron at this stage in the Parliament, anyone done the numbeers, @TSE, @MikeSmithson?0 -
FPT
Total bollocks from you as usual as you pit two unequal examples....why not 25 year old anti vaxxer with 75% to live if treated vs 25 year old with something not his fault and with 75% chance to live if treated.....this situation fuck the anti vaxxer letting him die just improves the gene pool. He is a darwin award winner grats him....kinabalu said:
Just not a take I can get behind at all. Brutalist and simplistic. Eg -Pagan2 said:
If it costs the life of someone else who doesn't get treated because the hospital is full of unvaxxed covid victims then yes it is a total and utter waste of timekinabalu said:
To save an unvaccinated person from a horrible death by Covid is not a waste of NHS resources.another_richard said:
Its callous to delay the non-covid medical treatment of others because hospitals are wasting their resources on anti-vaxxers.Anabobazina said:
Nope. That is callous and sets a horrific precedent for other life choices. The answer (if there has to be one) is to dis/incentivise through the tax system.another_richard said:
The answer has always been no vaccination then no hospital treatment.ydoethur said:
Yes.pigeon said:
They won't do it unless they're absolutely desperate. Can you imagine how much screaming there will be if they go down the route of punitive fines as in Austria, and it takes about five minutes for somebody to crunch the numbers and work out that they're being disproportionately inflicted upon black people with low incomes?ydoethur said:
To come back to an earlier point I made - at what stage will the government consider compulsory vaccinations ? Can't be far off if this is as bad as some fear.DavidL said:
What it certainly does mean is that we need to get on with double vaxxing our younger people as a matter of urgency. Action this day as Boris's hero used to say.HYUFD said:
Yes, the evidence so far is that Omicron is only bad news for the non double vaccinated in terms of potential hospitalisation and death, certainly that is true for the young.kinabalu said:
It depends how it impacts vaccinated populations. Does it put significantly more people in hospitals and morgues? If it doesn't, it's a blip not a gamechanger.Leon said:This is why travel is rather screwed (and, oh, I wish it weren’t so)
@OmicronNews
Breaking: The Dutch #RIVM has confirmed 13 #Omicron cases out of the 61 positives. #coronavirus #Corona
That’s 13 cases of OMICRON THE MIGHTY on just one flight to Europe. How many flights have come from Southern Africa to Europe, N America, Asia, in the last week or so? There must be a few thousand cases seeded worldwide
Even the older double vaccinated should be protected from it according to most scientists estimations once they have had their boosters which most over 70s now have had
But - how many of those vote Tory?
Given a choice between kicking a lot of Labour voters and having his own voters suffer due to pressure on the NHS and restrictions on the wider population, given his extremely factional, even transactional approach I wouldn't go bail for Johnson holding out.
But I'd be quite happy to financially dis-incentivise anti-vaxxers firstly through their tax codes and secondly through charging them for any medical treatment they receive.
25 year old has serious Covid, not vaxed, listened to antivax propaganda and was swayed, bit thick. Has a 75% chance of pulling through if treated, then normal life expectancy.
75 year old, chain smoker, high BP, now has serious Covid despite being vaxed. Has a 25% chance if treated, then a life expectancy of 82.
Who should be treated if only one can be?0 -
Doing a bit better thanks, seeing the counsellor every week and still on medication to helpIshmaelZ said:
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
0 -
Good luck with it all @CorrectHorseBattery, glad to hear things are going in the right direction. Take care of yourself.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Doing a bit better thanks, seeing the counsellor every week and still on medication to helpIshmaelZ said:
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
0 -
Cool. Stick with it.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Doing a bit better thanks, seeing the counsellor every week and still on medication to helpIshmaelZ said:
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
0 -
Great news keep at it.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Doing a bit better thanks, seeing the counsellor every week and still on medication to helpIshmaelZ said:
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
2 -
I see Dr Fauci has gone all Judge Dredd:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/11/28/fauci_responds_to_critics_when_people_criticize_me_they_are_criticizing_science.html
0 -
Yes. Because Mulroney was so reviled.HYUFD said:
It wasn't, Mulroney was a charismatic leader who won 2 landslides victories in 1984 and 1988. Indeed he was the most successful Canadian Conservative leader since WW2 and indeed still is, having won 2 majorities to Harper's 1.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
True that Kim Campbell was grossly over-promoted and ended up going splat in spectacular fashion in 1993 general election.Philip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
However, that defeat was NOT her fault, it was a massive vote AGAINST her predecessor, Brian Mulroney - the same guy who scored a landslide majority in 1988.
I remember both of these elections quite well. In 1988 yours truly drove up from West Virginia to Ontario, and visited the local riding headquarters of all three main candidates - Liberal, NDP and Progressive Conservative) in the Niagara Falls riding. Mulroney was riding high and signs of impending Tory victory were everywhere, including in the atmosphere at all three campaign offices.
In 1993, I drove up from Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia a few weeks before the election. The mood was quite different. Then the words on every other lip were "Lyin' Brian" and the fact that Kim Campbell was a fresh, young-ish face from BC cut no ice there or anywhere else.
Interestingly the last hurrah of the formerly-dominant provincial BC Social Credit Party had taken place two years earlier in 1991. At that time disgraced Premier Bill Vander Zalm was replaced by Rita Johnson. She went on to lose that year's provincial election big-time; her party was reduced to a wretched rump in the legislature and has never recovered, being replaced provincially on the center-right by the BC Liberals (a separate organization the federal Liberal Party that is dominated by people who are Tories federally).
Campbell however not only led the PCs to a landslide defeat she also enabled it to be so bad a defeat she lost most of her core vote to the Canadian Reform Party who overtook the PCs as the main party of the right, winning more votes and seats than the PCs did.1 -
The vast majority of them live in seats Labour would never lose anyway, so perhaps they could afford to upset some of them.Leon said:
Yes, that sounds about right. 15% of the country but about 70% of really active Labour members and MPsFrankBooth said:Matthew Goodwin made a good point on the woke/social justice issue. Around 15% of the population in the UK has a negative view of Britain/it's past etc. They are disproportionately vocal on social media, in universities and generally very censorious in their behaviour. Labour probably needs the support of a lot of them but if they pander to these voters they're doomed.
This is why they cannot win, at the moment. The Dems are in a similar position in America, and entirely reliant on Trump standing again to have a chance in 20240 -
She is also a former republican ex LD. She is not a Conservative whatever her views on Brexit and many traditional Conservatives would go ReformUK if she became leaderTOPPING said:
Why would you not want to vote for a Tory leader because of their views on Brexit when you agree with those views.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
Super news.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Doing a bit better thanks, seeing the counsellor every week and still on medication to helpIshmaelZ said:
Yeah not bad at all. You OK?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well otherwise?IshmaelZ said:
TY!CorrectHorseBattery said:Love the new avatar @IshmaelZ
Be patient with yourself.0 -
This woman is wrong. It is one thing to take children's ideas about changing the world seriously, which all teachers should do. But if they then allow children to set the terms of speech, the teachers will ultimately lose all their respect and authority.Benpointer said:
Here's an exclusive private school head teacher talking a lot of sense on the subject:Malmesbury said:
All this reminds me of MultiCulturalism.Benpointer said:
How does that prove the existence of The Woke as an entitity?Charles said:
It’s not. Just look at the mess at the American School for exampleBenpointer said:
Let us never forget @CorrectHorseBattery that "The Woke" as an entity is entirely a self-serving invention of right-wingers, to give themselves something to rail against.CorrectHorseBattery said:The "woke" might be the loudest but they are not the majority of the left by any way, just as the hang them all crowd on Twitter don't represent the right.
I continue to be of the view that most people sit in the centre, hence why Labour has now recovered
'Head teacher of exclusive private school implementing some crazy ideas and forced to resign' is hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.
"That one wacky instance doesn't mean there is any such thing as MultiCultrailism in the real world"
and at the same time
"If you are against MultiCultuiralism, you are against multiple cultures in the same country. Therefore you are literally Hitler."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/dismiss-children-woke-will-give-dreams-headteacher-warns/
It is amazing how fast these schools seem to have fallen.
1 -
If the Tories need a big state leaver to maintain their Red Wall support, then how about Dennis Skinner?
(Or me, for that matter.)1 -
@HYUFD remember if you voted Refuck even once you could never call yourself a real Tory ever again. You’d be in the same club as @Philip_Thompson @Big_G_NorthWales and god forbid Liz Truss.5
-
Many traditional Conservatives would grumble and put an X in the blue box.HYUFD said:
She is also a former republican ex LD. She is not a Conservative whatever her views on Brexit and many traditional Conservatives would go ReformUK if she became leaderTOPPING said:
Why would you not want to vote for a Tory leader because of their views on Brexit when you agree with those views.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss
Just as they do now.
Because woke or summat.0 -
Former. Whereas you still think Brexit was a mistake.HYUFD said:
She is also a former republican ex LD. She is not a Conservative whatever her views on Brexit and many traditional Conservatives would go ReformUK if she became leaderTOPPING said:
Why would you not want to vote for a Tory leader because of their views on Brexit when you agree with those views.HYUFD said:
Truss was a Remainer.Philip_Thompson said:
Again you're talking total bollocks and don't understand a thing about the Red Wall. When was the last time you went canvassing in the Red Wall?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, they voted for Boris as he was a Leaver who they knew would get Brexit done.Philip_Thompson said:
Why did they vote for Boris?HYUFD said:
They voted for Boris to get Brexit done and to beat Corbyn. If Boris goes they will not vote for libertarian Remainer Truss, they will either vote Labour again or go ReformUKPhilip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
Boris is upbeat and speaks the language of opportunity. He spoke about building up and levelling up communities and seeking opportunities post-Brexit.
Truss does the same thing. Thatcher and Cameron did the same thing.
Its what good leaders do and Truss has it.
Red Wallers also tend to be economically big state but socially conservative. hence Boris needed to promise big spending and an end to austerity to win them as well as to deliver Brexit. Remember most of them did not vote for Cameron or even Thatcher let alone May, Boris was the first Tory leader they ever voted for.
Red Wallers will not vote for an economically small state, socially liberal ex Remainer like Truss. They will either go back to Labour or vote ReformUK
Actually over the past decade there's been a swing in these parts from Labour to Tory.
I have friends, colleagues and neighbours up here who've transitioned to voting Tory in the past decade but please lecture me some more about how those where I live are all wanting your style of Remain voting Southern Conservative politics.
Most of these Red Wall seats voted for Kinnock, Brown and Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017, they are traditional Labour seats not swing seats Blair or the LDs won which went Tory in 2010 and 2015.
To hold them the Tories would need a leader who is economically big state but was a Leaver like Boris, they are not going to vote for a leader who is economically small state but was a Remainer like Truss0 -
Canada has confirmed two cases of the Omicron variant in federal capital Ottawa, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reports. Both cases were recent arrivals from Nigeria and are Canada’s first from the new variant.
I presume they didn't catch it in Nigeria, as that is country that never has any covid ever.2 -
When will we properly know how dangerous the new variant is?0
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No, as a republican libertarian like Truss is by definition not a Tory.Gallowgate said:@HYUFD remember if you voted Refuck even once you could never call yourself a real Tory ever again. You’d be in the same club as @Philip_Thompson @Big_G_NorthWales and god forbid Liz Truss.
So there would no longer be a Tory party or Conservative party to vote for, hence a vote for RefUK would be to cleanse the party of Truss libertarian liberalism so it can then go back to core values and a traditional conservative party in opposition.
I am not saying I would do that but many conservatives would0 -
2-3 weeks start to get an idea, still take couple of months to be able to start to say with any certainty if this is going to wipe us all out.CorrectHorseBattery said:When will we properly know how dangerous the new variant is?
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Nah, and that applies to you and Skinner. If you've ever not voted Tory you can't be on HYUFD's team... which is why I'm not discounting Corbyn.SandyRentool said:If the Tories need a big state leaver to maintain their Red Wall support, then how about Dennis Skinner?
(Or me, for that matter.)0 -
Has anyone had a bad reaction to AZ jabs 1 or 2 AND the booster? Or is it only a one time thing?0
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Rundown of how the table felt about the UK's virus situation. Almost all were very positive, one person wasn't, now an academic, the pharma people universally disagreed with that person's assessment. The other two academics were sympathetic to the position but overall still thought we were in a favourable place to maintain our current freedom level and roll back the masks again in a few weeks.
The pharma people all said their internal modelling agreed with the LSHTM model on hospitalisations across Europe. They think Omicron will be very difficult in nations that suppressed the delta exit wave, all three academics said that they disagreed with the government's initial stance of unlock hard in July, but all have been won over by the data.
The big one - vaccine efficacy dilution. Much more mixed, but overall confidence from the pharma people that the vaccines will work to a good enough degree to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. The AZ person said that the UK will benefit from doing the majority of over 50s with two AZ doses and a Moderna/Pfizer booster. Their own study shows it gives the best broad spectrum t-cell and b-cell response which won't prevent any infections but will significantly reduce infection severity to the point that they said even with immune escape those people with 2x AZ and 1x Moderna/Pfizer have little to worry about. The table tended to agree that AZ/AZ/Moderna is probably the best combination. Someone suggested that the government should bring AZ back for 30+ booster shots. Another said that the WHO should make the standard three shot course mRNA/AZ/mRNA and that everyone in the UK who had three mRNA doses should be given the option of an AZ booster in the new year for the t/b-cell immunity that mRNA vaccines don't provide to as high a degree.
More generally - the group agreed that Chris Whitty was right that every single person in the country will eventually get COVID. One said that the government lulled itself into a false sense of security with the 95% efficacy on three doses but Omicron proves that we will all get it, probably multiple times over the course of life. They said the thinking in government reflects that but the masks have probably been brought back to "purchase" an R reduction of ~0.1 for a couple of weeks just in case Omicron explodes among the unvaccinated young and unboosted old in the run up to Xmas. This person is probably closest to the government and they said the the way NPIs are now rated is almost like a budget, each one is rated with its R value reduction and it is put against the cost of implementing it from an economic and social perspective. Masks have a low economic and medium social cost but also a very low R reduction. Closing schools has got a very high economic and social cost and also a very high R reduction, lockdown is rated as the highest for costs but a bit less than closing schools for R reduction.9 -
Invaluable, and thanks againMaxPB said:Rundown of how the table felt about the UK's virus situation. Almost all were very positive, one person wasn't, now an academic, the pharma people universally disagreed with that person's assessment. The other two academics were sympathetic to the position but overall still thought we were in a favourable place to maintain our current freedom level and roll back the masks again in a few weeks.
The pharma people all said their internal modelling agreed with the LSHTM model on hospitalisations across Europe. They think Omicron will be very difficult in nations that suppressed the delta exit wave, all three academics said that they disagreed with the government's initial stance of unlock hard in July, but all have been won over by the data.
The big one - vaccine efficacy dilution. Much more mixed, but overall confidence from the pharma people that the vaccines will work to a good enough degree to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. The AZ person said that the UK will benefit from doing the majority of over 50s with two AZ doses and a Moderna/Pfizer booster. Their own study shows it gives the best broad spectrum t-cell and b-cell response which won't prevent any infections but will significantly reduce infection severity to the point that they said even with immune escape those people with 2x AZ and 1x Moderna/Pfizer have little to worry about. The table tended to agree that AZ/AZ/Moderna is probably the best combination. Someone suggested that the government should bring AZ back for 30+ booster shots. Another said that the WHO should make the standard three shot course mRNA/AZ/mRNA and that everyone in the UK who had three mRNA doses should be given the option of an AZ booster in the new year for the t/b-cell immunity that mRNA vaccines don't provide to as high a degree.
More generally - the group agreed that Chris Whitty was right that every single person in the country will eventually get COVID. One said that the government lulled itself into a false sense of security with the 95% efficacy on three doses but Omicron proves that we will all get it, probably multiple times over the course of life. They said the thinking in government reflects that but the masks have probably been brought back to "purchase" an R reduction of ~0.1 for a couple of weeks just in case Omicron explodes among the unvaccinated young and unboosted old in the run up to Xmas. This person is probably closest to the government and he said the the way NPIs are now rated is almost like a budget, each one is rated with its R value reduction and it is put against the cost of implementing it from an economic and social perspective. Masks have a low economic and medium social cost but also a very low R reduction. Closing schools has got a very high economic and social cost and also a very high R reduction, lockdown is rated as the highest for costs but a bit less than closing schools for R reduction.
Were there any opinions on the Reinfection issue? That's one of my primary worries, particularly re the UK0 -
In 2015 I was told by a poster on here that if I wanted a referendum on Europe to vote Tory - I'm not a natural Conservative being Labour in principal.
So I did - voting for Cameron then Cameron again and then Boris who finally enacted the Referendum result.
All the time on this forum I was told by Labour posters that I was a racist for voting Leave and they wanted another referendum.
When Boris goes my vote will go with him but to Labour? I think not. To Reform? No
Most probably to the Greens.
1 -
On the other hand, I for one would be happy to vote for a true LiberalHYUFD said:
No, as a republican libertarian like Truss is by definition not a Tory.Gallowgate said:@HYUFD remember if you voted Refuck even once you could never call yourself a real Tory ever again. You’d be in the same club as @Philip_Thompson @Big_G_NorthWales and god forbid Liz Truss.
So there would no longer be a Tory party or Conservative party to vote for, hence a vote for RefUK would be to cleanse the party of Truss libertarian liberalism so it can then go back to core values and a traditional conservative party in opposition.
I am not saying I would do that but many conservatives would0 -
What I'm telling you, is that by 1993 Brian Mulroney was widely hated from coast to freaking coast. His charisma that had been so brilliant before was held AGAINST him.HYUFD said:
It wasn't, Mulroney was a charismatic leader who won 2 landslides victories in 1984 and 1988. Indeed he was the most successful Canadian Conservative leader since WW2 and indeed still is, having won 2 majorities to Harper's 1.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
True that Kim Campbell was grossly over-promoted and ended up going splat in spectacular fashion in 1993 general election.Philip_Thompson said:
Balderdash and codswallop.HYUFD said:
She has Kim Campbell, Canadian Conservative PM in 1993, written all over her. A leader who led the Canadian Tories from a landslide majority inherited from her predecessor to a landslide defeat by the Canadian Liberals and even being overtaken on the right as the main party of opposition by the populist Canadian Reform PartyPhilip_Thompson said:
Speaking as someone who lives in the RedWall and whose vote is up for grabs next time, I think the like of Truss could go down well here.HYUFD said:
If the Tories want to hand the RedWall back to Starmer on a plate then a libertarian, ex LD, ex Remainer, ex republican like Truss is the way to do it.Scott_xP said:Red wall Tories in “Liz for Leader” plot: Glen Owen, Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1464985212908191744/photo/1
Not happening and indeed it would lead to large scale movement of traditional Conservatives to ReformUK too if Truss did become Tory leader
What would not go down well is Conservatives banging on about how important inheriting a million pounds is in Essex.
Its funny how your view of the Red Wall seems to be that Red Wall voters are all your own style of hardcore Essex longstanding Conservative voters. If that's the case, why weren't we all voting Tory for decades already?
However, that defeat was NOT her fault, it was a massive vote AGAINST her predecessor, Brian Mulroney - the same guy who scored a landslide majority in 1988.
I remember both of these elections quite well. In 1988 yours truly drove up from West Virginia to Ontario, and visited the local riding headquarters of all three main candidates - Liberal, NDP and Progressive Conservative) in the Niagara Falls riding. Mulroney was riding high and signs of impending Tory victory were everywhere, including in the atmosphere at all three campaign offices.
In 1993, I drove up from Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia a few weeks before the election. The mood was quite different. Then the words on every other lip were "Lyin' Brian" and the fact that Kim Campbell was a fresh, young-ish face from BC cut no ice there or anywhere else.
Interestingly the last hurrah of the formerly-dominant provincial BC Social Credit Party had taken place two years earlier in 1991. At that time disgraced Premier Bill Vander Zalm was replaced by Rita Johnson. She went on to lose that year's provincial election big-time; her party was reduced to a wretched rump in the legislature and has never recovered, being replaced provincially on the center-right by the BC Liberals (a separate organization the federal Liberal Party that is dominated by people who are Tories federally).
Campbell however not only led the PCs to a landslide defeat she also enabled it to be so bad a defeat she lost most of her core vote to the Canadian Reform Party who overtook the PCs as the main party of the right, winning more votes and seats than the PCs did.
HE was the problem, not his hapless, hopeless successor.
Strikes me that your argument is (somewhat) like blaming the collapse of the Third Reich on Admiral Dönitz. And crediting Hitler's triumphs while ignoring the backwash.0 -
Those people are idiots and I hope Labour might win your vote back one dayvino said:In 2015 I was told by a poster on here that if I wanted a referendum on Europe to vote Tory - I'm not a natural Conservative being Labour in principal.
So I did - voting for Cameron then Cameron again and then Boris who finally enacted the Referendum result.
All the time on this forum I was told by Labour posters that I was a racist for voting Leave and they wanted another referendum.
When Boris goes my vote will go with him but to Labour? I think not. To Reform? No
Most probably to the Greens.0 -
Your views and mine on politics are not that far apartCorrectHorseBattery said:
Those people are idiots and I hope Labour might win your vote back one dayvino said:In 2015 I was told by a poster on here that if I wanted a referendum on Europe to vote Tory - I'm not a natural Conservative being Labour in principal.
So I did - voting for Cameron then Cameron again and then Boris who finally enacted the Referendum result.
All the time on this forum I was told by Labour posters that I was a racist for voting Leave and they wanted another referendum.
When Boris goes my vote will go with him but to Labour? I think not. To Reform? No
Most probably to the Greens.0 -
As would most of the 10% of the electorate who are Libertarians, however if most of the remaining 43% of the electorate who voted Tory in 2019 went RefUK because of a Truss Tory leadership, then RefUK would end up the main opposition party to a Starmer governmentJohnLilburne said:
On the other hand, I for one would be happy to vote for a true LiberalHYUFD said:
No, as a republican libertarian like Truss is by definition not a Tory.Gallowgate said:@HYUFD remember if you voted Refuck even once you could never call yourself a real Tory ever again. You’d be in the same club as @Philip_Thompson @Big_G_NorthWales and god forbid Liz Truss.
So there would no longer be a Tory party or Conservative party to vote for, hence a vote for RefUK would be to cleanse the party of Truss libertarian liberalism so it can then go back to core values and a traditional conservative party in opposition.
I am not saying I would do that but many conservatives would0 -
I vote tension and wanted to overturn your vote and I see that was the wrong decision now although I’d still like EEA. I’d vote to stay out if asked nowvino said:
Your views and mine on politics are not that far apartCorrectHorseBattery said:
Those people are idiots and I hope Labour might win your vote back one dayvino said:In 2015 I was told by a poster on here that if I wanted a referendum on Europe to vote Tory - I'm not a natural Conservative being Labour in principal.
So I did - voting for Cameron then Cameron again and then Boris who finally enacted the Referendum result.
All the time on this forum I was told by Labour posters that I was a racist for voting Leave and they wanted another referendum.
When Boris goes my vote will go with him but to Labour? I think not. To Reform? No
Most probably to the Greens.1 -
After the Referendum Brexit dominated my political views - my only wish was to get it done - I can only speak of myself but I'm sure my view was shared by other Labour voting brexit supporters - we were let down by the Party and especially the MPs - this is something I cannot forgiveCorrectHorseBattery said:
I vote tension and wanted to overturn your vote and I see that was the wrong decision now although I’d still like EEA. I’d vote to stay out if asked nowvino said:
Your views and mine on politics are not that far apartCorrectHorseBattery said:
Those people are idiots and I hope Labour might win your vote back one dayvino said:In 2015 I was told by a poster on here that if I wanted a referendum on Europe to vote Tory - I'm not a natural Conservative being Labour in principal.
So I did - voting for Cameron then Cameron again and then Boris who finally enacted the Referendum result.
All the time on this forum I was told by Labour posters that I was a racist for voting Leave and they wanted another referendum.
When Boris goes my vote will go with him but to Labour? I think not. To Reform? No
Most probably to the Greens.0
This discussion has been closed.