Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

After over-turning a 26% deficit can LAB’s recovery be sustained? – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited November 2021
    That was frankly a complete waste of time. May even have been counterproductive.
  • It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476

    Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

    Just bloody get on with it....

    The mere discovery doesn't, actually. For all we currently know omicron may get round the booster so easily it's a waste of time, and/or be so amazingly benign in the u40s that it's a waste of time.
  • It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,012

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
    I was watching this. What a stupid question.
  • I've got two gigs coming up. Next Thursday in Manchester, then Saturday week after that in that London. Both already have a "show us yer vax or no admittance" policy. Wonder if by the time we get anywhere near that the whole thing is shitcanned.

    You should be ok, they should go ahead. You had better bring a mask though...
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

    Just bloody get on with it....

    The mere discovery doesn't, actually. For all we currently know omicron may get round the booster so easily it's a waste of time, and/or be so amazingly benign in the u40s that it's a waste of time.
    Or a really nasty variant which is more deadly but less so for those triple jabbed.

    It's quite incredible to me that after two years of covid biting us on the arse and deflating hubris faster than a pricked balloon, we still get people prepared to gamble by dithering.

    Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.
  • Roger said:

    Some very good news!
    This useless embarrassment of a Prime Minister is losing popularity at a speed that would make Jimmy Saville blush and Sir Keir Starmer's qualities are finally showing themselves.

    A little more media training and he should go roaring ahead

    (Could someone off stage tell Johnson that this is not intended as a political broadcast for himself. It really doesn't sound good)

    But I suspect Boris's worldview is that the whole world is a stage for Boris The Hero. True of most pols, even ones I like, natch. But some are more selfstruck than others.

    On one he mask thing, I've got a bad feeling. Not that it's the wrong thing to do (smallish benefit for even smaller effort), but it isn't going to happen is it? TFL have supposedly had mask rules throughout, but we're well below 50% compliance on not-yet-Crossrail. It's about to become very-Crossrail (boomtish).

    [Old Teacher Wisdom: It's bloody hard to tighten up on a rule that has been there on paper all along but has been allowed to slip...]
  • Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

    In shops and transport. Mumbled it as hates giving bad news.
    Bad news bear Saj is going to tell us later. Bozza is being quite Tiggerish, a contrast to the Dreary Brothers either side of him.
    To be honest it was probably one of his better press conferences. Not much to object to even if we are probably overreacting as the precautionary principle applies.

    As someone hoping to make my first international trip since 2019 next month, hope the mandated quarantine is at home rather than in an airport hotel.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,012

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    We were in the toon today. In fenwicks, John Lewis and other major stores makes wearing was no more than 20%. Was surprised.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    ydoethur said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.
    Yesterday I had to go to the pharmacy, so being in my mind a 'clinical setting' I put my mask on. Pharmacist and assistant were unmasked, other customers were unmasked. More fool me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,572
    Roger said:

    Some very good news!
    This useless embarrassment of a Prime Minister is losing popularity at a speed that would make Jimmy Saville blush.

    Sir Keir Starmer's qualities are finally showing themselves.

    A little more media training and he should start moving ahead

    (Could someone off stage tell Johnson that this is not intended as a political broadcast for himself. It really doesn't sound good)

    Isn't his favourability about the same as it was just prior to the 2019 election?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,485
    ydoethur said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.
    You get evicted from the shops in Stasi Wales sans mask.
  • pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,792
    Taz said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
    I was watching this. What a stupid question.
    There’s been mostly stupid questions, at every single press conference for the past 20 months!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,709

    Le Monde reports on the “surprisingly” good situation with Covid in the UK despite all restrictions being lifted in the summer.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2021/11/27/covid-19-l-etonnante-situation-sanitaire-du-royaume-uni_6103817_3244.html

    Is Le Monde one of those outllets which have spent the last 3-4 months writing about case numbers?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    Susan Michie lying in her teeth. As usual.
  • p.s. I know this is all very annoying and even disturbing.

    We just have to dig deep. It's half-time on covid. End of 1941 not 1945.

  • Roger said:

    Some very good news!
    This useless embarrassment of a Prime Minister is losing popularity at a speed that would make Jimmy Saville blush and Sir Keir Starmer's qualities are finally showing themselves.

    A little more media training and he should go roaring ahead

    (Could someone off stage tell Johnson that this is not intended as a political broadcast for himself. It really doesn't sound good)

    But I suspect Boris's worldview is that the whole world is a stage for Boris The Hero. True of most pols, even ones I like, natch. But some are more selfstruck than others.

    On one he mask thing, I've got a bad feeling. Not that it's the wrong thing to do (smallish benefit for even smaller effort), but it isn't going to happen is it? TFL have supposedly had mask rules throughout, but we're well below 50% compliance on not-yet-Crossrail. It's about to become very-Crossrail (boomtish).

    [Old Teacher Wisdom: It's bloody hard to tighten up on a rule that has been there on paper all along but has been allowed to slip...]
    It is the rule here in Wales but largely ignored and certainly no obvious enforcement
  • Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    Its been suggested on here by several posters that I have been a hysterical selfish wanker for *wearing* a mask
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,012
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
    I was watching this. What a stupid question.
    There’s been mostly stupid questions, at every single press conference for the past 20 months!
    True, WTF was I expecting.
  • Lockdown now please. Stop the spread.

    Compulsory masks are good though.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476
    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

    Just bloody get on with it....

    The mere discovery doesn't, actually. For all we currently know omicron may get round the booster so easily it's a waste of time, and/or be so amazingly benign in the u40s that it's a waste of time.
    Or a really nasty variant which is more deadly but less so for those triple jabbed.

    It's quite incredible to me that after two years of covid biting us on the arse and deflating hubris faster than a pricked balloon, we still get people prepared to gamble by dithering.

    Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.
    Yes. If people haven't learned by now that blind panic trumps rational assessment every time, there is no hope for them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,190
    edited November 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
    I was watching this. What a stupid question.
    There’s been mostly stupid questions, at every single press conference for the past 20 months!
    And this is after all yesterday and this morning the media have been running shutting down travel so quickly is borderline racist and totally unfair on African nations, ruining their economy, and not justified at this stage.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    Pret must be relieved that WFH hasn't been reintroduced.

    I am planning one non-WFH day between now and Christmas, so doesn't have much of an impact on me anyway. And I don't buy my dinner at Pret.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,012

    Lockdown now please. Stop the spread.

    Compulsory masks are good though.

    We really don’t need a lockdown. Masks yes, people are wearing them less and less.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,031
    A question that could have an effect on the next GE (whenever it is): what is the financial state of each of the parties like? I know they often get large donations in the run-up to an expected GE, but how are they looking at the moment?

    It would be interesting to see an analysis of total party funding before various elections (GE, European, large locals) and their results. Is there a correlation? If so, is it weak or strong?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,792
    MattW said:

    Le Monde reports on the “surprisingly” good situation with Covid in the UK despite all restrictions being lifted in the summer.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2021/11/27/covid-19-l-etonnante-situation-sanitaire-du-royaume-uni_6103817_3244.html

    Is Le Monde one of those outllets which have spent the last 3-4 months writing about case numbers?
    They still think there’s a 2020-era link between case numbers and hospitalisations, having missed the 100m vaccines handed out in the meantime.

    Don’t start them on test positivity rates between countries, that completely blows their mind!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    SKS has that Look that you can picture outside 10 downing street - and the Blairite policies to match.

    I think he'd be a terrible leader - Blair would be a very low bar for him to better.

    An even lower bar is BJ
    BJ never Devolved Scotland thus pushing us Scots into a bitter divide for over ten years.
    Because of course without devolution, all would have been sweetness and light.
    Have you lived in Scotland in during the "non-divisive" ref?
    The referendum is not the same as devolution. It is quite possible to hold one in a non-devolved region/ principality.
    Devolution lead to indyref1 - Yoons will win indyref2.

    The only question is when we abolish Holyrood.
    You show clearly why independence is required, the IQ of unionists is lower than absolute zero.
  • I've got two gigs coming up. Next Thursday in Manchester, then Saturday week after that in that London. Both already have a "show us yer vax or no admittance" policy. Wonder if by the time we get anywhere near that the whole thing is shitcanned.

    You should be ok, they should go ahead. You had better bring a mask though...
    Apparently not required in hospitality per BBC so you won't need one unless the promoter or venue requires it
  • ydoethur said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.
    You get evicted from the shops in Stasi Wales sans mask.
    I haven't seen anyone thrown out of a shop even though Drakeford mandates it

    No enforcement even in Asda around here
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 157

    Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.
    They might need to work on the availability. I tried to book my booster this morning but the NHS website had no slots in Cambridge at all -- only site they offered was in Huntingdon. (I'm hoping that next week they'll load up some more booking slots into the system...)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    Sky just replayed Bozo's answer: "have to" he said. Near enough 'compulsory' then.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    Taz said:

    Lockdown now please. Stop the spread.

    Compulsory masks are good though.

    We really don’t need a lockdown. Masks yes, people are wearing them less and less.
    We don't even know if this is an issue.

    Masks are low hanging fruit but more theatre than anything (homemade ones).

    If they are pretty sure that boosters will help out regardless of the mutations then Boris should have bypassed JCVI and just said go - no downside, and will help out with a possible Delta surge after Christmas anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,000
    boulay said:

    MaxPB said:

    Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

    Just bloody get on with it....

    Indeed, I'd love to get my booster before Xmas. My wife wants to get her one done too.
    Managed to get my booster today (AZ,AZ,Pfizer) as wanted to be fully tooled up ahead of December party season!

    Aching a bit this afternoon but the mother of all headaches has attacked now…..
    Similar experience, same vaccine combo. All fine after 24 hours
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    Devi! Yay!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

    Careers are at stake, specifically hers.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,090

    jonny83 said:

    Looking forward to the prospect of quieter buses for a bit.

    Due to muffled voices behind the masks?
    Was thinking more along the lines of less people on them as a result of bringing it back (I kn , but yes that too!
    DavidL said:

    Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

    He did suggest that they should be used on public transport and in public buildings but he ducked the question of whether this is a recommendation or a legal requirement.
    The current policy is they advise the public already to wear them in most of those settings ('we won't force you, but we recommend you do'). If they aren't making it a legal requirement then nothing has changed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited November 2021

    ydoethur said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.
    You get evicted from the shops in Stasi Wales sans mask.
    I haven't seen anyone thrown out of a shop even though Drakeford mandates it

    No enforcement even in Asda around here
    Once mask wearing drops below a certain critical mass it isn't enforceable anyway.

    Shop. 'If you don't wear a mask, you must leave.'

    All customers leave.

    Shop 'ah...how do we pay our bills now?'

    Police officer to non mask wearer. 'If you don't wear your mask I'll fine you.'

    Several hundred people tear up FPT.

    Police officer. 'You will all be committed for trial.'

    Shopper. 'When?'

    Police officer. 'Due to backlogs at the magistrates court and the fact I've just enormously increased their workload, 2025.'

    People laugh and walk away.

    The bigger problem is that when you try to enforce pointless laws and totally fail, you bring the wider law into disrepute. Which is in itself highly damaging.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,855
    edited November 2021
    So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery
  • MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

    If they are brought back in classrooms I'm walking. I've had enough.
  • The rise of omicron will mean a "rethink" on how NHS deploys the antivirals it has on order, Chris Whitty tells me - the drugs must be used "in the right way and for the right people".
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,567
    pm215 said:


    Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.
    They might need to work on the availability. I tried to book my booster this morning but the NHS website had no slots in Cambridge at all -- only site they offered was in Huntingdon. (I'm hoping that next week they'll load up some more booking slots into the system...)


    Nothing is going to accelerate the booster programme unless they substantially increase the availability of the vaccination slots *and* cut the period between dose 2 and the booster to significantly less than six months.

    At present the JCVI has plenty of time to dither about whether to let the under-40s have theirs. I'm 45 and being made to wait until December 29th. Even if the under-40s become eligible they're going to be waiting until about bloody February at the current rate of progress.
  • Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,720
    IshmaelZ said:

    Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

    Just bloody get on with it....

    The mere discovery doesn't, actually. For all we currently know omicron may get round the booster so easily it's a waste of time, and/or be so amazingly benign in the u40s that it's a waste of time.
    This comment from South Africa suggests both that it is more severe and that vaccines still have effectiveness against it:
    “We’re seeing a marked change in the demographic profile of patients with COVID-19,” Rudo Mathivha, head of the intensive care unit at Soweto’s Baragwanath Hospital, told an online press briefing.
    “Young people, in their 20s to just over their late 30s, are coming in with moderate to severe disease, some needing intensive care. About 65% are not vaccinated and most of the rest are only half-vaccinated,” said Mathivha. “I’m worried that as the numbers go up, the public health care facilities will become overwhelmed.”
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    So which has a greater impact on reducing spread:

    1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask

    2. The same person WFH

    I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

    Journalist

    Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

    The UK closed the border first of all countries
    They closed nothing. All flights into UK yesterday from South Africa had NO testing whatsoever , compare with Belgium where all 600 were tested and 61 found to be positive.
  • Really does look as if the tests on the S.A. flights were either performed incorrectly or fraudulently:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10248551/Dozens-passengers-arrived-Holland-South-Africa-test-positive-Covid.html
  • Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,286

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    edited November 2021
    d

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    Our wave has been more of minch-like swell. Uncomfortable, but not gonna swamp the ferry.

    Europe is getting smashed by a Tsunami.

    The S.Africans have plenty of vaccines.
  • So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

    Wow. You were happy to keep voting for *that* despite all the incompetence and corruption and embarrassment, but will not vote REFUK or whatever because masks to stop people dying.

    Perhaps the Nigel will blame the boat non-people on bringing this new forrin pox to our shores.
  • ydoethur said:

    So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

    If they are brought back in classrooms I'm walking. I've had enough.
    I think (and hope ) there are enough people to defy facemask wearing . Its a politician fix to be seen to be doing something when it does f all . If there is a new variant it will not stop its spead - has nothing been learned in the last 18 months? No reason to vote for you anymore Boris
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
    Hypothetically, if in scenario one you are driving, couldn't you kill someone then as well?

    (Not that I wear glasses, so I have no dog in that particular fight.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

    Careers are at stake, specifically hers.
    David, that si rubbish, she has a bag full of excuses and has no plans for a referendum. Personbally the mask wearing in shops/transport is sensible and most decent people are happy to oblige. Only the knuckle draggers ignore it. Personally I would use the cattle prods on them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited November 2021

    ydoethur said:

    So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

    If they are brought back in classrooms I'm walking. I've had enough.
    I think (and hope ) there are enough people to defy facemask wearing . Its a politician fix to be seen to be doing something when it does f all . If there is a new variant it will not stop its spead - has nothing been learned in the last 18 months? No reason to vote for you anymore Boris
    TBF, I could never think of a reason to vote for him to start with. That's why I tore up my ballot paper.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 489
    edited November 2021
    By the way, Taz masks are not being worn less and less where I live. And I noticed much greater compliance on my train the other day. One couple weren't wearing them but they got a piece of my mind.

    Sorry. Wear a mask. It's tough shit. On the grand scale is not a big deal.

    There are much more important issues surrounding this e.g. working in offices, policies on jabbing children, travel, lockdowns etc. etc. etc. A bit of cloth over your face is no more an inconvenience than wearing it over your vagina or willy.
    (Although preferably not the same bit of cloth.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

    The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
    Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

    It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    Heathener said:

    By the way, Taz masks are not being worn less and less where I live. And I noticed much greater compliance on my train the other day. One couple weren't wearing them but they got a piece of my mind.

    Sorry. Wear a mask. It's tough shit. On the grand scale is not a big deal.

    There are much more important issues surrounding this e.g. working in offices, policies on jabbing children, travel, lockdowns etc. etc. etc. A bit of cloth over your face is no more an inconvenience than wearing it over your vagina or willy.

    You breathe and talk through your genitals?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    That response went right over your head then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,709
    edited November 2021
    pigeon said:

    pm215 said:


    Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.
    They might need to work on the availability. I tried to book my booster this morning but the NHS website had no slots in Cambridge at all -- only site they offered was in Huntingdon. (I'm hoping that next week they'll load up some more booking slots into the system...)
    Nothing is going to accelerate the booster programme unless they substantially increase the availability of the vaccination slots *and* cut the period between dose 2 and the booster to significantly less than six months.

    At present the JCVI has plenty of time to dither about whether to let the under-40s have theirs. I'm 45 and being made to wait until December 29th. Even if the under-40s become eligible they're going to be waiting until about bloody February at the current rate of progress.

    Isn't there a very direct bus service between those two? :smile:

    (In Notts we have M.A. Trains, but none of the big ones due to backstabber Boris.)


    (Broken quotes sorry)
  • Heathener said:

    By the way, Taz masks are not being worn less and less where I live. And I noticed much greater compliance on my train the other day. One couple weren't wearing them but they got a piece of my mind.

    Sorry. Wear a mask. It's tough shit. On the grand scale is not a big deal.

    There are much more important issues surrounding this e.g. working in offices, policies on jabbing children, travel, lockdowns etc. etc. etc. A bit of cloth over your face is no more an inconvenience than wearing it over your vagina or willy.
    (Although preferably not the same bit of cloth.)

    pious garbage - they do not work
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000
    edited November 2021
    I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.

    But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?

    I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
  • DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

    Careers are at stake, specifically hers.
    If only there was a way of forcing her to have that referendum that she knows she is going to lose.

    Perhaps the big brayne jeenyuses of the Union need to get together to work that one out.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

    That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.
    He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121
    He said that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

    The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
    Prima facie. Different patterns of change at different time indicate other factors also operating. Impossible to separate out AFAIK.Scotland was better than England some of the time - worse some of the time - with no correlation with mask wearing. Ditto Wales. Masks are known to help in principle and in tests. They are a reasonable precaution in the current circumstances.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,286
    edited November 2021

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
    Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

    It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.
    Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.
  • Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
    hysterical nonsense - how come Scotland and Wales have just as high spread rates - pious idiot
  • malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    That response went right over your head then.
    I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
  • Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
    Take your self righteous cant and go tell someone who cares.
  • So which has a greater impact on reducing spread:

    1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask

    2. The same person WFH

    I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.

    This is primarily driven by businesses and employees, not government. About half the jobs can't be done at home anyway, the rest will find the right balance for them based on impact of working from home vs covid risks. That won't be the same across all businesses.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, Taz masks are not being worn less and less where I live. And I noticed much greater compliance on my train the other day. One couple weren't wearing them but they got a piece of my mind.

    Sorry. Wear a mask. It's tough shit. On the grand scale is not a big deal.

    There are much more important issues surrounding this e.g. working in offices, policies on jabbing children, travel, lockdowns etc. etc. etc. A bit of cloth over your face is no more an inconvenience than wearing it over your vagina or willy.

    You breathe and talk through your genitals?
    And ingest food and drink.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

    Careers are at stake, specifically hers.
    David, that si rubbish, she has a bag full of excuses and has no plans for a referendum. Personbally the mask wearing in shops/transport is sensible and most decent people are happy to oblige. Only the knuckle draggers ignore it. Personally I would use the cattle prods on them.
    I'm 50:50 on this. I think the mask wearing is sensible if backed up by evidence.

    It does fit into the narrative of Scotland as a caring, eco country as distinct from a cut-throat, selfish, racist England.

    See the coalition with the Greens and mantra of economic growth not being relevant any more (good political strategy if your fiscal position is rubbish).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    Doubt there si hard evidence but our rates are well below England , last I saw we were running at 35% lower rates than England, so something different.
  • So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

    Wow. You were happy to keep voting for *that* despite all the incompetence and corruption and embarrassment, but will not vote REFUK or whatever because masks to stop people dying.

    Perhaps the Nigel will blame the boat non-people on bringing this new forrin pox to our shores.
    What?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,190
    edited November 2021
    kle4 said:

    I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.

    But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?

    I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,

    If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,466
    edited November 2021

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    That response went right over your head then.
    I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
    As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!

    [edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    The stupid masks are very annoying, but at least the fact that all they've bothered to do is bring them back for shops, trains and buses (we've not even gone so far as WFH at this stage) indicates that this is a token measure. Personally, I'll put up with the masks grudgingly, but if the review in three weeks results in pleas not to go anywhere near our families, or attempts to resurrect the Rule of Six (or anything approximating to it,) then they can fuck right off.

    It would also be nice if they'd not simultaneously plead with us to book booster jabs and insist we wait over a month (Christmas is now in the way for all new appointments) between doing so and getting them.
    It’s not a token measure, more of a signalling device to change behaviour.

    I’ve been good about masks on public transport, but many haven’t and the tube has been full. I would t be surprised to see more WFH for example and more caution generally. Which will help with delaying the spread while you get jabs in arms
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

    The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
    The only thing I can think of as a sort of general anecdote in their favour is that while they were compulsory in schools - which overwhelming evidence shows are the main vector of transmission - cases actually remained pretty low.

    When they were removed, case numbers climbed rapidly.

    Now that's not bad evidence that - contrary to what I would dearly wish - they can be quite effective.

    However, there is another question. Is the considerable damage and inconvenience they can cause - particularly to those who, like me, are somewhat deaf and rely on lip reading to communicate effectively - worth the impact on transmission?

    I would argue, not up to this moment.

    What hasn't been laid out yet is clear evidence that this new form of the virus changes that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 605
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

    At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

    Boost, boost, boost!

    Doubt there si hard evidence but our rates are well below England , last I saw we were running at 35% lower rates than England, so something different.
    Fair.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,190
    edited November 2021
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
    Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

    It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.
    Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.
    Then even had a term for it...flattening the...square...the circle...or something.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,802
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
    You wear an FFP3 mask, it doesn't matter whether others are masked or not. You are then protecting yourself.
  • I see there's been another surge in the bog standard mask man baby variant. Persistent little blighter that one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

    The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
    Prima facie. Different patterns of change at different time indicate other factors also operating. Impossible to separate out AFAIK.Scotland was better than England some of the time - worse some of the time - with no correlation with mask wearing. Ditto Wales. Masks are known to help in principle and in tests. They are a reasonable precaution in the current circumstances.
    I think that they were a perfectly reasonable thing to try. They might have helped as a hypothetical. Last winter, even if they did not help much with Covid, I think that they probably helped us have a very mild flu season when our hospitals were chokka. That very probably saved lives. I would be open to an argument we should try the same again this flu season where our hospitals are busy enough. But I agree with your observation that there is "no correlation with mask wearing".

    The weight of the evidence, to me, seems to supports the contention that mask wearing by amateurs really has a negligible or no effect on the spread of Covid. Its a pity, but there we are.
  • Charles said:

    Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

    That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.
    He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121
    He said that.
    Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,607
    Early evening all :)

    As is so often the case with one of these briefings, I'm left, pace Johnny Nash, with the sense of there being more questions than answers.

    As always, the virus has a head start and we are playing catch-up and I suppose you can never blame a Government for being too cautious where public health is concerned but I'm as unconvinced by the measures proposed as many others on here.

    Enforcing mask wearing on public transport is almost impossible - I can see the big supermarkets being able to put on-door security in place but will every business? It seems improbable.

    It may yet be, to paraphrase the Bard, much ado about nothing as the jury seems out on the risk to double and triple vaccinated individuals. As for the unvaccinated, one might argue those who have dodged the virus so far may find it harder to dodge Omicron if it is as transmissible as suggested.

    Today smacks of a Government desperately trying to look as though it is in control of the situation - the measures, such as they are, are unlikely to be effective but it sets a tone and a climate in which individuals and businesses can, if they choose, re-impose their own restrictions. We'll see.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,476

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
    Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

    It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.
    Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.
    Then even had a term for it...flattening the...square...the circle...or something.
    Was it sombreros?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

    You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

    You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?
    Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

    It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.
    Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.
    Then even had a term for it...flattening the...square...the circle...or something.
    Was it sombreros?
    No, that's cultural appropriation....
  • DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

    The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
    Prima facie. Different patterns of change at different time indicate other factors also operating. Impossible to separate out AFAIK.Scotland was better than England some of the time - worse some of the time - with no correlation with mask wearing. Ditto Wales. Masks are known to help in principle and in tests. They are a reasonable precaution in the current circumstances.
    I think that they were a perfectly reasonable thing to try. They might have helped as a hypothetical. Last winter, even if they did not help much with Covid, I think that they probably helped us have a very mild flu season when our hospitals were chokka. That very probably saved lives. I would be open to an argument we should try the same again this flu season where our hospitals are busy enough. But I agree with your observation that there is "no correlation with mask wearing".

    The weight of the evidence, to me, seems to supports the contention that mask wearing by amateurs really has a negligible or no effect on the spread of Covid. Its a pity, but there we are.
    On mask wearing the number of people wearing them incorrectly including below the nose is astonishing
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MaxPB said:

    It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

    Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
    I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
    Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
    Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
    Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

    I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".
    Saj is just nervous as this is make or break for his career

    In the case of RSA, of course, they have plenty of vaccines but no desire among the people to take them
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    Charles said:

    Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

    That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.
    He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121
    He said that.
    Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
    Actually, I did hear him say that as well.

    I laughed because the idea of track and trace actually performing such a feat is up there with the idea of Johnson keeping his marriage vows.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,541
    edited November 2021
    Evening all

    Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,680
    edited November 2021

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    pigeon said:

    Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

    There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

    There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
    There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
    Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

    You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

    You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.
    You wear an FFP3 mask, it doesn't matter whether others are masked or not. You are then protecting yourself.
    Just place your glasses over the nose piece of the mask, don't cover your glasses with your mask. They won't steam up then. That's what I do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited November 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    Evening all

    Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?

    We don't find out until tomorrow. I assume therefore it is from Monday.
This discussion has been closed.