I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Not surprised. So many people live in flats not designed to live in. The assumption is that you're out at work all day and out having a social life half the rest of the time.
Yep. Big enough to eat, sleep and sh*t in. Do something about the dire state of housing and many, many other issues disappear. But nobody will.
What else do you do in your home?
People who claim to "live" at home are sad, deluded, asocial individuals
Are you one of those PBers who think they live on the edge because they go to a pub-turned-incompetent-restaurant once a week for the sea bream sur un lit de fennel?
Not at all. But I don't think of it as any more than a base for exploring the world.
Obviously I haven't done too much of that recently, although I have managed three foreign holidays since March 2020. But while being locked down when you live on your own has its own challenges, it hasn't led me to want to move somewhere bigger with its own garden, for example.
I fully intend to move to a cheaper part of the country when I retire. But I won't get anywhere bigger, I'll be looking to pocket some cash and go travelling.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.
There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.
The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
The only thing I can think of as a sort of general anecdote in their favour is that while they were compulsory in schools - which overwhelming evidence shows are the main vector of transmission - cases actually remained pretty low.
When they were removed, case numbers climbed rapidly.
Now that's not bad evidence that - contrary to what I would dearly wish - they can be quite effective.
However, there is another question. Is the considerable damage and inconvenience they can cause - particularly to those who, like me, are somewhat deaf and rely on lip reading to communicate effectively - worth the impact on transmission?
I would argue, not up to this moment.
What hasn't been laid out yet is clear evidence that this new form of the virus changes that.
All of Europe has been facemasking and they are now all in lockdown - they do sod all
Almost all of Europe has benefited from months of very low Covid rates
Artificially suppressed through pointless restrictions.
Given that we have no realistic prospect of ever eradicating Covid-19, we are going to have to learn at some point to put up with an endemic level of infection in the population. That wobbly case graph we've been watching go up-down-up-down since July - that's almost certainly the stage at which we have arrived in the country.
We were correct to take the brake off the disease and let it run, because it's probably going to keep running at 40, 50, 60 thousand cases a day forever - and having it spread through the population unchecked for months, especially through schoolchildren, has greatly increased levels of population immunity prior to the Winter months (with all the fears about higher transmissibility, the flu season and the elderly falling over on slippery pavements converging all at once,) which is exactly the approach that the CMO endorsed.
All that's happened in Austria, the Netherlands and elsewhere is they've kept the cases low during the warm weather at the cost of getting them all at once when it's got cold and damp. Stuck with restrictions when we had practically none, and now stuck with lockdowns when we're just starting to talk about masking again. They'll suffer another wave of economic devastation, months more crap remote learning for children, and most of the people who were saved earlier in the year by all the extra rules and regulations will now simply perish in the tsunami wave of death that is to come. Germany's Covid death rate per capita, for example, is already 50% higher than ours and is climbing at a rate of knots. (Snip)
There's another scenario: we ran high levels during summer to try to reduce the severity over winter, only for a new variant to come along and make that pointless. I hope that isn't going to be the case - and I doubt it will be - but the probability appears much higher than it was last month.
I suppose it's always a possibility, but I'm not worried at this stage. There's nothing I've heard in the commentary so far to suggest that this new variant is likely to substantially diminish the efficacy of the vaccines in preventing serious illness, and absent that it should be manageable. As always, one stands to be corrected by the course of events, but steady as she goes for now.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
It’s not just a mental health issue - there are people whose mental health might well be better WFH and those who are worse off.
My biggest issue with WFH and why I fear for younger members of the workforce is purely about the quality of their professional development and their futures from working from home.
This is clearly just personal anecdote but I’ve been WFH for ten years. The only reason I am in a position to do this is because of the 15 years I spent in the office.
The skills and knowledge and passed down experience from sitting with the grey hairs, working for them and learning from them, being guided on a day to day basis, picking up skills from other senior experienced people and peers, overhearing calls by colleagues and learning or changing or finding solutions etc.
And it’s not just the work side but the social side. Not only learning to work with people with different approaches and backgrounds but also learning to work with people you don’t like or find very hard to deal with. Also depending on the type of job you have then there is the physical interaction with clients in meetings or more social client entertainment settings that develop an existing relationship or creates a new one.
So many younger people are potentially missing out on these key skills that will define their professional futures. Some will be fine but others will have missed out at an early stage which will then hamper their development when they might have had a much better path if they hadn’t been told that WFH is fine/great/doesn’t make a difference as the work gets done - it gets done yes but “done” isn’t the whole picture of someone’s career.
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
I haven't gone native. I will vote No in the eventual referendum. Voting SNP is to remove that lickspittle Duguid who stands up praising Peppa for shafting this constituency.
NEW: Israel considering to close its border to all foreigners due to new coronavirus variant
Priti literally breathless in wonder at such a concept.
Really? I would have thought she'd be quite pissed off at the ending of her nice little junkets.
*giggles* I had forgotten about her traitorous actions with her own foreign policy.
No I meant that Israel will say "no-one comes in" and actions it so that it happens. Priti repeatedly says "no-one gets in" across the channel and the day after the numbers are higher. So she says "no-one gets in" and the day after the numbers are higher. And again and again.
Because she is useless.
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands,-- This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
A sea border was a slam dunk winner back in those days, but as we now see, that was because seafaring in wind-power-only wooden ships is a mug's game. It is a trite observation that if Napoleon had kept up with technology we'd all be speaking French, because the steam tugs were there for him to tow an invading army over in a flat calm by 1800. Given powered propulsion a coast is much harder to defend than a land border.
Really? Hitler didn't seem to find it so. The Wehrmacht forced the supposedly impenetrable Ardennes with comparative ease but were balked by the Strait of Dover.
Yes, good point, but total war is one thing, defending a border against civvies is another. I suppose the key thing is, you can humanitarianly make people stay on that side of a fence rather than this, but not in the sea vs on dry land
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Not surprised. So many people live in flats not designed to live in. The assumption is that you're out at work all day and out having a social life half the rest of the time.
Yep. Big enough to eat, sleep and sh*t in. Do something about the dire state of housing and many, many other issues disappear. But nobody will.
What else do you do in your home?
People who claim to "live" at home are sad, deluded, asocial individuals
Ah, you mean engineers.
But seriously: who the f*ck are you to judge others in that manner? I could turn that around and say that perhaps people who *have* to be sociable all the time are just sad, shallow, deluded individuals? Ones who cannot even be happy in their own company?
I've known all combinations: people who are happy in their own company, and those who are lonely and could really do with getting out more. Those who say they have thousands of friends, but cannot name them; who desperately phone people up mid-afternoon to arrange going out somewhere - anywhere. And those who are genuinely gregarious and happy.
That's the key thing: whatever makes someone happy. If they're happy and content in their own company, what's the harm?
I live on my own and, despite the challenges of the last 18 months, would have it no other way.
I often travel on my own, and sometimes go for days out on my own.
But surely life is still about engaging with the world, however you choose to do it.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
I left. Apparently that makes me a traitorous cur who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
It’s not just a mental health issue - there are people whose mental health might well be better WFH and those who are worse off.
My biggest issue with WFH and why I fear for younger members of the workforce is purely about the quality of their professional development and their futures from working from home.
This is clearly just personal anecdote but I’ve been WFH for ten years. The only reason I am in a position to do this is because of the 15 years I spent in the office.
The skills and knowledge and passed down experience from sitting with the grey hairs, working for them and learning from them, being guided on a day to day basis, picking up skills from other senior experienced people and peers, overhearing calls by colleagues and learning or changing or finding solutions etc.
And it’s not just the work side but the social side. Not only learning to work with people with different approaches and backgrounds but also learning to work with people you don’t like or find very hard to deal with. Also depending on the type of job you have then there is the physical interaction with clients in meetings or more social client entertainment settings that develop an existing relationship or creates a new one.
So many younger people are potentially missing out on these key skills that will define their professional futures. Some will be fine but others will have missed out at an early stage which will then hamper their development when they might have had a much better path if they hadn’t been told that WFH is fine/great/doesn’t make a difference as the work gets done - it gets done yes but “done” isn’t the whole picture of someone’s career.
IMO that's a really big issue for young people - and one many might not be grasping.
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
What’s your Get Back take?
Some reviewers have attacked Peter Jackson because there's 8 hours of it. I could have watched the 16 hour version and still been agog.
Can Peter Jackson not just make a single 2hr movie / documentary? Surely there can't be enough material of 4 blokes making a record to fill 8hrs of tv.
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
What’s your Get Back take?
Badly recorded shit.
Didn’t ask you, your phobia is a matter of record.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
It’s not just a mental health issue - there are people whose mental health might well be better WFH and those who are worse off.
My biggest issue with WFH and why I fear for younger members of the workforce is purely about the quality of their professional development and their futures from working from home.
This is clearly just personal anecdote but I’ve been WFH for ten years. The only reason I am in a position to do this is because of the 15 years I spent in the office.
The skills and knowledge and passed down experience from sitting with the grey hairs, working for them and learning from them, being guided on a day to day basis, picking up skills from other senior experienced people and peers, overhearing calls by colleagues and learning or changing or finding solutions etc.
And it’s not just the work side but the social side. Not only learning to work with people with different approaches and backgrounds but also learning to work with people you don’t like or find very hard to deal with. Also depending on the type of job you have then there is the physical interaction with clients in meetings or more social client entertainment settings that develop an existing relationship or creates a new one.
So many younger people are potentially missing out on these key skills that will define their professional futures. Some will be fine but others will have missed out at an early stage which will then hamper their development when they might have had a much better path if they hadn’t been told that WFH is fine/great/doesn’t make a difference as the work gets done - it gets done yes but “done” isn’t the whole picture of someone’s career.
I mean I'm fully jabbed and getting my booster on 6th December. If possible I would absolutely not want to wear a mask in the shops again but if it's made illegal not to wear a mask then I will comply as I'm a law abiding citizen (most of the time )
To be honest this won't make much difference to me. I have continued to wear a mask in shops not because I think it makes any difference but because there are still plenty of people who are worried and I do it out of a matter of courtesy to them. It causes me no grief and any objection I had about compulsion obviously has not applied for some time so I am content to do my bit to reassure people. Logic does not have to mean scorn for those who, for many of their own personal reasons, are till frightened.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
Yes, I've left Mrs Stodge in there doing a line before she....well you can guess the rest.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Absolutely. Anything or rather most things which induce anxiety such as restrictions like WFH, masks, etc will increase anxiety. Which is of course an identity but no less true for that.
Now if course granny dying of Omicron is pretty anxiety inducing but the balance is critical. We have lived with many viruses and not insidiously degraded the mental health of our country.
Wearing masks is no costless. It impacts on mental health. But as you don't need to hook up to a ventilator if you have mental health issues no one gives a damn.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
I left. Apparently that makes me a traitorous cur who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
Nah, Blair gets it first and then Starmer. You are at the very best third!
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
What’s your Get Back take?
Badly recorded shit.
Didn’t ask you, your phobia is a matter of record.
Don't you just bloody love it when you invest a lot of time and thought in a perfectly crafted heffalump trap, and somebody falls plumb into it?
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
It’s not just a mental health issue - there are people whose mental health might well be better WFH and those who are worse off.
My biggest issue with WFH and why I fear for younger members of the workforce is purely about the quality of their professional development and their futures from working from home.
This is clearly just personal anecdote but I’ve been WFH for ten years. The only reason I am in a position to do this is because of the 15 years I spent in the office.
The skills and knowledge and passed down experience from sitting with the grey hairs, working for them and learning from them, being guided on a day to day basis, picking up skills from other senior experienced people and peers, overhearing calls by colleagues and learning or changing or finding solutions etc.
And it’s not just the work side but the social side. Not only learning to work with people with different approaches and backgrounds but also learning to work with people you don’t like or find very hard to deal with. Also depending on the type of job you have then there is the physical interaction with clients in meetings or more social client entertainment settings that develop an existing relationship or creates a new one.
So many younger people are potentially missing out on these key skills that will define their professional futures. Some will be fine but others will have missed out at an early stage which will then hamper their development when they might have had a much better path if they hadn’t been told that WFH is fine/great/doesn’t make a difference as the work gets done - it gets done yes but “done” isn’t the whole picture of someone’s career.
It's why my daughter is so reluctant to accept a traineeship with a public sector body who insist on working from home. She wants to be in the office, making friends, learning from colleagues, building a social life etc. I completely understand those concerns.
Can Peter Jackson not just make a single 2hr movie / documentary? Surely there can't be enough material of 4 blokes making a record to fill 8hrs of tv.
This is only part 1 of a trilogy, I'm hoping, on past form.
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
RP flounced in the middle of a CLP gathering.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Not surprised. So many people live in flats not designed to live in. The assumption is that you're out at work all day and out having a social life half the rest of the time.
Yep. Big enough to eat, sleep and sh*t in. Do something about the dire state of housing and many, many other issues disappear. But nobody will.
What else do you do in your home?
People who claim to "live" at home are sad, deluded, asocial individuals
Ah, you mean engineers.
But seriously: who the f*ck are you to judge others in that manner? I could turn that around and say that perhaps people who *have* to be sociable all the time are just sad, shallow, deluded individuals? Ones who cannot even be happy in their own company?
I've known all combinations: people who are happy in their own company, and those who are lonely and could really do with getting out more. Those who say they have thousands of friends, but cannot name them; who desperately phone people up mid-afternoon to arrange going out somewhere - anywhere. And those who are genuinely gregarious and happy.
That's the key thing: whatever makes someone happy. If they're happy and content in their own company, what's the harm?
I live on my own and, despite the challenges of the last 18 months, would have it no other way.
I often travel on my own, and sometimes go for days out on my own.
But surely life is still about engaging with the world, however you choose to do it.
Life is what you make it. I've had times when I've been very sociable, and times when I've not. I can take it or leave it. But I've always 'engaged' with the world. That engagement just hasn't been going to the pub or theatre three times a week.
As an example of the opposite; an ex-colleague of Mrs J used to take photos of the meals he had in pubs and put them onto Facebook. Not special meals: just the fodder from the local chain pub. He went out every night, and was desperate to find someone to go out with. He ended up seeming a little attention-seeking and sad.
IMO an important key to a happy life (for me, at least) is to always have at least one challenge on the go. It doesn't have to be anything important or life-changing; just something that will stretch me and my abilities. Currently it is to do at least one run every day of the year, covid permitting. I don't know what next years challenge, or challenges, will be
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
RP flounced in the middle of a CLP gathering.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
Are you replying to the wrong comment? That seems to be linked to my earlier one about the different laws they could have used but didn't.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
Are you coming to the PB meet in February I want to confirm the prettier claim!!
Its depressing as shit. Yes, public health is more important, but personally even in a mostly empty office I'm more comfortable, happy and productive.
This is why it is so important for organisations to take into account the wishes of every individual and not try to use coercion or force majeure to instil a monolithic culture.
It's a challenge and we'll see which organisations are adroit enough to take it on - the sense of being more productive, comfortable and happy sitting alone in an empty office is probably more widespread then believed.
The compartmentalisation of work and home life which was the by-product of huge social and working changes over the past two centuries is now being eroded and that will continue.
It's fine if you have another "place" to work within your home but if you don't, I can certainly understand why it would cause long-term problems.
I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
Good point. Anyone who criticises people on PB for being on PB needs to have a word with themselves.
Me, after a cracking day with excellent scenting conditions in the cold and wet and wind (go figure), I'm just having a glass of something and seeing what the reaction on here to Boris' announcement is.
Happy to be on PB, happy to acknowledge I'm on PB on a Saturday early evening.
Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.
I was watching the BBC and I heard it.
It was in the middle of a garbled answer (no surprise there) but he said it.
Something like “we will want all of the contacts of people who are confirmed case of omnicrom, they will be required to self isolate, test and trace is working on that now”
We were talking about masks. Scroll back up the quotes. Sandy said "Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it."
Well your quote was “he can’t announce critical stuff” (I paraphrase) and you included a tweet about self isolation.
On masks he didn’t say they were to be mandatory. He said that they were bringing them back for transport and retail only, and that Saj would announce more detail In the next day or so
Well that was an epic fail on my part - I thought I was posting their tweet about masks.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
What’s your Get Back take?
Badly recorded shit.
Didn’t ask you, your phobia is a matter of record.
Don't you just bloody love it when you invest a lot of time and thought in a perfectly crafted heffalump trap, and somebody falls plumb into it?
That wasn't my judgement, that was John Lennon.
I’m aware of that. You obviously haven’t seen it, and to be honest, you don’t seem to have a clue on this subject.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
RP flounced in the middle of a CLP gathering.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
See link i posted below...it could be such that even a full lockdown won't be effective...
A question that could have an effect on the next GE (whenever it is): what is the financial state of each of the parties like? I know they often get large donations in the run-up to an expected GE, but how are they looking at the moment?
It would be interesting to see an analysis of total party funding before various elections (GE, European, large locals) and their results. Is there a correlation? If so, is it weak or strong?
Donations are published roughly quarterly I think by the regulator.
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
Good point. Anyone who criticises people on PB for being on PB needs to have a word with themselves.
Me, after a cracking day with excellent scenting conditions in the cold and wet and wind (go figure), I'm just having a glass of something and seeing what the reaction on here to Boris' announcement is.
Happy to be on PB, happy to acknowledge I'm on PB on a Saturday early evening.
No one is being criticised for being on PB - it was the notion of watching Brighton vs Leeds which I found difficult. @IshmaelZ got the wrong end of the stick, I fear.
I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
See link i posted below...it could be such that even a full lockdown won't be effective...
By the end of tonight the PB panty-wetting faction will have decided that it has an R of about a million and everybody will have had the thing by the end of next week. Probably twice.
Oh well, at least that'll be the end of all the restrictions.
I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
Good point. Anyone who criticises people on PB for being on PB needs to have a word with themselves.
Me, after a cracking day with excellent scenting conditions in the cold and wet and wind (go figure), I'm just having a glass of something and seeing what the reaction on here to Boris' announcement is.
Happy to be on PB, happy to acknowledge I'm on PB on a Saturday early evening.
Nothing doing here, home at 2 (most unusually for me), now 2 negronis up and into the claret. There are worse ways of spending a saturday evening.
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
It seems to me that it is hard to argue against the idea that at least part of the mask mandate logic from powers that be such as SAGE is that it reminds people when they are out and about that this shit is not over, so maybe keep a bit of distance, perhaps not shake hands etc etc.
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
I view almost everybody across the Political Spectrum on here as Internet friends and will be nice to meet some additional posters.
We'll finally be able to answer the question just how big is @bigjohnowls and how does he compare with @Big_G_NorthWales. Although perhaps the latter won't make it...
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
And yet, if it does go badly with Omicron would you be able to not say "I told you so"? I doubt it. You have a lack of integrity, you would never have stabbed your party in the back and abandoned the Labour movement. Worse still you're about to stab your new family in the back too by voting for the SNP. No integrity. At all.
I see Brighton are playing in blue and white...and Leeds are playing in...blue and white....
I just commented to my wife as I find it hard to follow and she agreed
The idea anyone would spend their Saturday early evening watching Brighton play Leeds is the aspect I'm finding hard to follow.
There's a lot of lifestyle antagonism this evening. You are spending your Saturday early evening on PB, unless you are just checking out from a pansexual orgy for 2 minutes to snort a line off the cistern
Good point. Anyone who criticises people on PB for being on PB needs to have a word with themselves.
Me, after a cracking day with excellent scenting conditions in the cold and wet and wind (go figure), I'm just having a glass of something and seeing what the reaction on here to Boris' announcement is.
Happy to be on PB, happy to acknowledge I'm on PB on a Saturday early evening.
Nothing doing here, home at 2 (most unusually for me), now 2 negronis up and into the claret. There are worse ways of spending a saturday evening.
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
Are you replying to the wrong comment? That seems to be linked to my earlier one about the different laws they could have used but didn't.
No it's in reply to a new mandate being passed by Ministers and announced to the media instead of Parliament.
If Hoyle is cross then Hoyle should be cross with the MPs who renewed the emergency powers legislation rather than
There's no "compliance" to ensure when Parliament already approved Ministers having these emergency powers.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
Are you coming to the PB meet in February I want to confirm the prettier claim!!
Was my usual biting sarcasm. May make it down if I can co-ordinate work...
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
Like you RP I feel liberated being out of a Party I can no longer support and I am sure if I moved to Scotland,which I would love to do I would join the SNP.
The good professor has disturbed his weekend's rest to pontificate for us lowly individuals...
Robert Peston @Peston By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
And yet, if it does go badly with Omicron would you be able to not say "I told you so"? I doubt it. You have a lack of integrity, you would never have stabbed your party in the back and abandoned the Labour movement. Worse still you're about to stab your new family in the back too by voting for the SNP. No integrity. At all.
I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.
But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?
I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,
If new nu covid is as suggested as infectious as measles, R0 = 16, realistically it isn't going to do anything....its already the case that really you need bare minimum a well fitting N95 one to do much.
Yes, see here:
Oliver Barnes @mroliverbarnes I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
It seems to me that it is hard to argue against the idea that at least part of the mask mandate logic from powers that be such as SAGE is that it reminds people when they are out and about that this shit is not over, so maybe keep a bit of distance, perhaps not shake hands etc etc.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Not surprised. So many people live in flats not designed to live in. The assumption is that you're out at work all day and out having a social life half the rest of the time.
Yep. Big enough to eat, sleep and sh*t in. Do something about the dire state of housing and many, many other issues disappear. But nobody will.
What else do you do in your home?
People who claim to "live" at home are sad, deluded, asocial individuals
Ah, you mean engineers.
But seriously: who the f*ck are you to judge others in that manner? I could turn that around and say that perhaps people who *have* to be sociable all the time are just sad, shallow, deluded individuals? Ones who cannot even be happy in their own company?
I've known all combinations: people who are happy in their own company, and those who are lonely and could really do with getting out more. Those who say they have thousands of friends, but cannot name them; who desperately phone people up mid-afternoon to arrange going out somewhere - anywhere. And those who are genuinely gregarious and happy.
That's the key thing: whatever makes someone happy. If they're happy and content in their own company, what's the harm?
I live on my own and, despite the challenges of the last 18 months, would have it no other way.
I often travel on my own, and sometimes go for days out on my own.
But surely life is still about engaging with the world, however you choose to do it.
Life is what you make it. I've had times when I've been very sociable, and times when I've not. I can take it or leave it. But I've always 'engaged' with the world. That engagement just hasn't been going to the pub or theatre three times a week.
As an example of the opposite; an ex-colleague of Mrs J used to take photos of the meals he had in pubs and put them onto Facebook. Not special meals: just the fodder from the local chain pub. He went out every night, and was desperate to find someone to go out with. He ended up seeming a little attention-seeking and sad.
IMO an important key to a happy life (for me, at least) is to always have at least one challenge on the go. It doesn't have to be anything important or life-changing; just something that will stretch me and my abilities. Currently it is to do at least one run every day of the year, covid permitting. I don't know what next years challenge, or challenges, will be
Well I was well sluggish at this morning's parkrun. Post-COVID fatigue is something else. But I haven't done one for a month, due to an injury and COVID so it was good to meet up with my running buddies and have a Full English I didn't have to cook myself.
The good professor has disturbed his weekend's rest to pontificate for us lowly individuals...
Robert Peston @Peston By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
I'm due to stay in Southend with my girlfriend's family next weekend as a base for a London xmas shopping visit - but they're currently in Spain and don't get back until Thursday!
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
And yet, if it does go badly with Omicron would you be able to not say "I told you so"? I doubt it. You have a lack of integrity, you would never have stabbed your party in the back and abandoned the Labour movement. Worse still you're about to stab your new family in the back too by voting for the SNP. No integrity. At all.
*giggles* Can I get some of what you are smoking?
Yet no denials mate, you know it's true and all you can do is try and avoid looking in the mirror.
The good professor has disturbed his weekend's rest to pontificate for us lowly individuals...
Robert Peston @Peston By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
I'm due to stay in Southend with my girlfriend's family next weekend as a base for a London xmas shopping visit - but they're currently in Spain and don't get back until Thursday!
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
I voted for Ed Milliband as leader so the whole Corbyn fiasco is my fault. I left on the eve of Corbyn's Coronation.
I have always been wary of Conservative Government so it seemed pointless to support an organisation whose leader had done more than most Conservatives throughout his now almost 40 year parliamentary career to promote Conservative Governments and undermine Labour Governments.
I believe the revolution is now dead. My relationship with the Labour Party will never be the same again, but I have nonetheless gone back to worrying about why I dislike Conservative Governments more than I do Labour leaders.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
And yet, if it does go badly with Omicron would you be able to not say "I told you so"? I doubt it. You have a lack of integrity, you would never have stabbed your party in the back and abandoned the Labour movement. Worse still you're about to stab your new family in the back too by voting for the SNP. No integrity. At all.
*giggles* Can I get some of what you are smoking?
He’s an expert on anything he has a passing interest in. Get him onto pizza dough. He could teach those guys in Italy a thing or two.
The good professor has disturbed his weekend's rest to pontificate for us lowly individuals...
Robert Peston @Peston By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
I'm due to stay in Southend with my girlfriend's family next weekend as a base for a London xmas shopping visit - but they're currently in Spain and don't get back until Thursday!
Spain is ok so far...
Aye but they'll have to self isolate on return regardless
United Kingdom government organization · 2h COVID UPDATE: Face coverings will become compulsory on public transport and in shops. Not including hospitality.
FPT - thanks for kind words. Started a new job (that's intense) so far less time for posting, or even reading the comments! Hopefully, I will be able to have a bit more fun once I've established myself.
The good professor has disturbed his weekend's rest to pontificate for us lowly individuals...
Robert Peston @Peston By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
I'm due to stay in Southend with my girlfriend's family next weekend as a base for a London xmas shopping visit - but they're currently in Spain and don't get back until Thursday!
Spain is ok so far...
Aye but they'll have to self isolate on return regardless
FPT - thanks for kind words. Started a new job (that's intense) so far less time for posting, or even reading the comments! Hopefully, I will be able to have a bit more fun once I've established myself.
Have a good evening!
I hope you have suitably declared your pronouns as part of your induction
There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.
There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.
There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.
We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.
The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.
The only thing I can think of as a sort of general anecdote in their favour is that while they were compulsory in schools - which overwhelming evidence shows are the main vector of transmission - cases actually remained pretty low.
When they were removed, case numbers climbed rapidly.
Now that's not bad evidence that - contrary to what I would dearly wish - they can be quite effective.
However, there is another question. Is the considerable damage and inconvenience they can cause - particularly to those who, like me, are somewhat deaf and rely on lip reading to communicate effectively - worth the impact on transmission?
I would argue, not up to this moment.
What hasn't been laid out yet is clear evidence that this new form of the virus changes that.
All of Europe has been facemasking and they are now all in lockdown - they do sod all
“The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms.” -Angelique Coetzee, the chairwoman of the South African Medical Association..."It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well. So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home.” Hospitals have NOT been overburdened by Omicron patients and the new strain has not been detected in vaccinated individuals there. We know those vaccinated from other countries infected have been mild or asymptomatic. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease/articleshow/87949404.cms
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
RP flounced in the middle of a CLP gathering.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Sure, but her worry is "older, unvaccinated people" which they have in ZA. We don't, and to the extent we do it's by choice, so I say: Let 'em crash.
Yes, we have done well in jabbing the old and sickly. There is reasonable hope - though it is very early days - that Omicron will be Not Too Bad in the UK
Omicron could be pretty grim in countries with more vax hesitancy in older cohorts (surprising places like Germany), and it could be hellish in the developing world which has not vaxed at all.
I can foresee almost all borders closing, for a while
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
Are you replying to the wrong comment? That seems to be linked to my earlier one about the different laws they could have used but didn't.
No it's in reply to a new mandate being passed by Ministers and announced to the media instead of Parliament.
If Hoyle is cross then Hoyle should be cross with the MPs who renewed the emergency powers legislation rather than
There's no "compliance" to ensure when Parliament already approved Ministers having these emergency powers.
My misunderstanding then, I thought it required legislation. Which is why I said earlier that Johnsonmight be regretting using new laws rather than existing ones.
Snow has melted, to a great extent, but the wind is now getting up again.
United Kingdom government organization · 2h COVID UPDATE: Face coverings will become compulsory on public transport and in shops. Not including hospitality.
“The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms.” -Angelique Coetzee, the chairwoman of the South African Medical Association..."It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well. So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home.” Hospitals have NOT been overburdened by Omicron patients and the new strain has not been detected in vaccinated individuals there. We know those vaccinated from other countries infected have been mild or asymptomatic. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease/articleshow/87949404.cms
No mention of bed wetting, but that does appear to be a significant symptom, among those yet to catch it....
FFS. The same twisted quote. She is talking about the vaccinated, and she has admitted this is very early evidence and she can't really say for sure, and she is referring to a tiny sample.
And here she is in the Telegraph
"Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.
"“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.""
It's great that her small sample of healthy young patients are doing well. But it is far too soon to be blithely optimistic and it is completely false to say “The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms"
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Oh yes don’t get me wrong, this could be a cluster in other places. But I still think the hard yards have already been run in this country.
As for our outlook here? If daily case rates sans NPI stabilise at an average circa 50k per day in the long term, that means the average person will catch this virus approximately once every 3-4 years. Luckily the genetic drift of coronaviruses is quite slow so there’s every reason to think relatively few people will be getting serious cases beyond this winter. At least versus a normal flu year. And when they do, they’ll benefit from an ever growing arsenal of therapeutics.
I think we can say with quite a bit of confidence that the direct impact on life expectancy in the 2020s will be statistical noise, although of course there are indirect effects too - initially negative but most likely highly positive in the medium to long term due to the fire lit under science budgets and innovation.
By the way been in bed all day, lost my sense of taste. Pcr in the post. Such is life now.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
He left at the height of the great JC's...um... greatness.
It was definitely JCs fault. Had been unhappy for a while, then AS blew up in my CLP with a Jewish guy made to feel very unwelcome by one of the psychotic Corbynites.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
Are you coming to the PB meet in February I want to confirm the prettier claim!!
Was my usual biting sarcasm. May make it down if I can co-ordinate work...
I'm wondering whether the PB meetup needs to be in Fitzpatrick's in Rawtenstall.
1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask 2. The same person WFH I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.
2 has great cost to the economy and personal mental health Government is about trade offs
Those who seem most anxious to get people back to offices seem to be commercial property owners, developers and their clients.
Do you have a scintilla of objective evidence for the point about mental health? I hear this quite often, again from those with a vested interest in having people back in office buildings working like battery hens at banks of desks but presumably free of mental health issues (apparently)?
Personal anecdotes only, but there are people who have really struggled with lockdown. I’ve also seen my team - many of whom were young and in shared flats - finding WFH very difficult
Not surprised. So many people live in flats not designed to live in. The assumption is that you're out at work all day and out having a social life half the rest of the time.
Yep. Big enough to eat, sleep and sh*t in. Do something about the dire state of housing and many, many other issues disappear. But nobody will.
What else do you do in your home?
People who claim to "live" at home are sad, deluded, asocial individuals
Ah, you mean engineers.
But seriously: who the f*ck are you to judge others in that manner? I could turn that around and say that perhaps people who *have* to be sociable all the time are just sad, shallow, deluded individuals? Ones who cannot even be happy in their own company?
I've known all combinations: people who are happy in their own company, and those who are lonely and could really do with getting out more. Those who say they have thousands of friends, but cannot name them; who desperately phone people up mid-afternoon to arrange going out somewhere - anywhere. And those who are genuinely gregarious and happy.
That's the key thing: whatever makes someone happy. If they're happy and content in their own company, what's the harm?
I live on my own and, despite the challenges of the last 18 months, would have it no other way.
I often travel on my own, and sometimes go for days out on my own.
But surely life is still about engaging with the world, however you choose to do it.
Life is what you make it. I've had times when I've been very sociable, and times when I've not. I can take it or leave it. But I've always 'engaged' with the world. That engagement just hasn't been going to the pub or theatre three times a week.
As an example of the opposite; an ex-colleague of Mrs J used to take photos of the meals he had in pubs and put them onto Facebook. Not special meals: just the fodder from the local chain pub. He went out every night, and was desperate to find someone to go out with. He ended up seeming a little attention-seeking and sad.
IMO an important key to a happy life (for me, at least) is to always have at least one challenge on the go. It doesn't have to be anything important or life-changing; just something that will stretch me and my abilities. Currently it is to do at least one run every day of the year, covid permitting. I don't know what next years challenge, or challenges, will be
Well I was well sluggish at this morning's parkrun. Post-COVID fatigue is something else. But I haven't done one for a month, due to an injury and COVID so it was good to meet up with my running buddies and have a Full English I didn't have to cook myself.
Injuries are absolutely the worst. Had six weeks when I couldn't get out at all earlier in the year after being struck down by PF, and at least as long afterwards when I was very wary of running as a consequence. Properly cricket batted my fitness, I'm still not quite back to where I was. So I feel your parkrun pain!
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Sure, but her worry is "older, unvaccinated people" which they have in ZA. We don't, and to the extent we do it's by choice, so I say: Let 'em crash.
Yes, agreed
At this point I have Less Than Zero sympathy for the unvaxxed (other than those who can't, for health reasons, of course). They are endangering themselves, but they have also been endangering the rest of us, and menacing the economy
Let OMICRON go to work on them, He will know his own
I’m in an absolutely foul mood because it looks like my Christmas getaway to Portugal is cancelled. Indeed, I am wondering if I will be able to go on into the US as planned.
I support the travel ban to/from Southern Africa of course. Grudgingly welcome the masks, although I personally loathe them.
They (governments of all stripes) wouldn’t be doing this of course unless they were incredibly concerned.
We await proper testing, but the markets on Friday told one story, and Israel’s complete border closure echoes that.
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
Are you replying to the wrong comment? That seems to be linked to my earlier one about the different laws they could have used but didn't.
No it's in reply to a new mandate being passed by Ministers and announced to the media instead of Parliament.
If Hoyle is cross then Hoyle should be cross with the MPs who renewed the emergency powers legislation rather than
There's no "compliance" to ensure when Parliament already approved Ministers having these emergency powers.
My misunderstanding then, I thought it required legislation. Which is why I said earlier that Johnsonmight be regretting using new laws rather than existing ones.
Snow has melted, to a great extent, but the wind is now getting up again.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
And yet, if it does go badly with Omicron would you be able to not say "I told you so"? I doubt it. You have a lack of integrity, you would never have stabbed your party in the back and abandoned the Labour movement. Worse still you're about to stab your new family in the back too by voting for the SNP. No integrity. At all.
*giggles* Can I get some of what you are smoking?
Yet no denials mate, you know it's true and all you can do is try and avoid looking in the mirror.
Max, But you have quit the being a Tory member and I'm sure declared on here that you will support another party in your marginal seat. That's not dissimilar to RP.
Neither of you are traitors or back-stabbers. You have simply changed political allegiances as have many others of the once mighty legion of pb Tories.
“The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms.” -Angelique Coetzee, the chairwoman of the South African Medical Association..."It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well. So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home.” Hospitals have NOT been overburdened by Omicron patients and the new strain has not been detected in vaccinated individuals there. We know those vaccinated from other countries infected have been mild or asymptomatic. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease/articleshow/87949404.cms
No mention of bed wetting, but that does appear to be a significant symptom, among those yet to catch it....
FFS. The same twisted quote. She is talking about the vaccinated, and she has admitted this is very early evidence and she can't really say for sure, and she is referring to a tiny sample.
And here she is in the Telegraph
"Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.
"“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.""
It's great that her small sample of healthy young patients are doing well. But it is far too soon to be blithely optimistic and it is completely false to say “The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms"
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
The Labour Party deserved to be stabbed in the back, and anyway wasn't Pioneers defenestrated for taking the name of JC in vain? Banished to Scotland he went native.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
RP flounced in the middle of a CLP gathering.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
Sorry to hear that BJO.
Thanks Pete it's been a long process unfortunately.
I was off here for about 3 weeks after her death, but as I said to RP, time definitely is a superb healer.
It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.
Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over. I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.
Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.
Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.
That response went right over your head then.
I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"
As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!
[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]
For Max England = UK
I am a traitor to England in that I moved somewhere else. But I don't think that's what he meant. Not thinking like him and voting like him makes me a Traitor. Obvs
Nah you stabbed the Labour party in the back and now you're going to stab the UK in the back by voting for the SNP. You're so obsessed with the government being wrong that you're actually excited about the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines. I think you need to have a really hard think about where your life choices are taking you mate.
Blimey. You actually think that way? Bizarre.
"Excited by the prospect that Omicron can evade vaccines".
For "excited" substitute "very worried".
How did you stab the Labour Party in the back ?
I left. Apparently that makes me a traitorous cur who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
You can relax. Most of those who would have formed the firing squad have either quit or been kicked out if our patch is typical.
I view almost everybody across the Political Spectrum on here as Internet friends and will be nice to meet some additional posters.
We'll finally be able to answer the question just how big is @bigjohnowls and how does he compare with @Big_G_NorthWales. Although perhaps the latter won't make it...
We can have Speak Your Weight Bingo if you bring a machine.
"One at a time, please" used to be the standard Beano line when I was a reader, a few years ago. I may have lost some kilos by Feb.
Anyone know when the rules on mask wearing in shops/transport is coming into force? And is it being legally enforced again or just strongly advised?
Saj is giving more detail in the next day or so
I expect some form of legal 'mandate' to encourage compliance and for people to 'get the message'
I assume it has to be announced in the HOC
But it won't be, and Hoyle will be cross again.
At some point, if he wants to ensure compliance, he is going to have to make an issue of this and suspend a minister for 30 days.
Sorry but no as much as I oppose the government making rules and announcing them like this, Parliament has voted to give them this power.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
Are you replying to the wrong comment? That seems to be linked to my earlier one about the different laws they could have used but didn't.
No it's in reply to a new mandate being passed by Ministers and announced to the media instead of Parliament.
If Hoyle is cross then Hoyle should be cross with the MPs who renewed the emergency powers legislation rather than
There's no "compliance" to ensure when Parliament already approved Ministers having these emergency powers.
My misunderstanding then, I thought it required legislation. Which is why I said earlier that Johnsonmight be regretting using new laws rather than existing ones.
Snow has melted, to a great extent, but the wind is now getting up again.
My understanding is no new legislation is necessary since Parliament has already passed it.
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Seems to me that today was just about messaging “we are doing something” when in reality they are quite deliberately doing nothing to slow the spread. About all there was is the return of mask theatre in limited circumstances which as we know, is not really moving the dial on R meaningfully at this point of the virus’s evolution (if it ever did). Amusing how worked up some here are about others not masking. Just wear an FPP3 and keep your weird anecdotes about cloths over genitals to yourself.
The telling answer was about there being two variants and our strategy for each being different. Essentially, we are continuing with the Let It Burn strategy for Dura Ace, Contrarian and their mates.
While doing some theatre around foreign travel so you can’t blame us in a month or two when Omicron is inevitably 99% of all new cases.
And using it as a chance to remind people to get boosted. Amazing how many people (including on here) still haven’t clocked that the strategy since July has been to deliberately infect all the last pockets of naive immune systems, while giving it a “boost” through modern science.
When is the penny going to drop for the thickos that this virus will be circulating pretty broadly for the rest of our lives? But that things will never again be as bad as March 2020 to March 2021 as it has now ceased to be a novel virus in this country.
A very fair analysis, perhaps a shade optimistic, globally
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
Sure, but her worry is "older, unvaccinated people" which they have in ZA. We don't, and to the extent we do it's by choice, so I say: Let 'em crash.
Yes, we have done well in jabbing the old and sickly. There is reasonable hope - though it is very early days - that Omicron will be Not Too Bad in the UK
Omicron could be pretty grim in countries with more vax hesitancy in older cohorts (surprising places like Germany), and it could be hellish in the developing world which has not vaxed at all.
I can foresee almost all borders closing, for a while
That's my major worry too, especially for some European countries that haven't got total vaccination of over 60s as we seem to have. Omicron could very easily overwhelm even the most stringent lockdown measures and may require the complete closure of all indoor and outdoor socialising as well as some kinds of indoor work in industries. I can't imagine how quickly it would spread on a factory floor, for example. It not evading vaccines or naturally acquired immunity would be absolutely great news for some places including the UK, Israel and a few other countries but if it spreads at a significantly faster rate than delta and still presents severe symptoms in the unvaccinated it could be really, really bad for big chunks of the world.
Comments
Obviously I haven't done too much of that recently, although I have managed three foreign holidays since March 2020. But while being locked down when you live on your own has its own challenges, it hasn't led me to want to move somewhere bigger with its own garden, for example.
I fully intend to move to a cheaper part of the country when I retire. But I won't get anywhere bigger, I'll be looking to pocket some cash and go travelling.
I don't read RP's posts as a sign of excitement at Omicron 's potential challenge to the vaccines. I do detect a frustration at the hubristic Johnson rampers on here who are overwhelmed with joy when Europe are in lockdown thus confirming their boy's genius and the EU's haplessness.
My biggest issue with WFH and why I fear for younger members of the workforce is purely about the quality of their professional development and their futures from working from home.
This is clearly just personal anecdote but I’ve been WFH for ten years. The only reason I am in a position to do this is because of the 15 years I spent in the office.
The skills and knowledge and passed down experience from sitting with the grey hairs, working for them and learning from them, being guided on a day to day basis, picking up skills from other senior experienced people and peers, overhearing calls by colleagues and learning or changing or finding solutions etc.
And it’s not just the work side but the social side. Not only learning to work with people with different approaches and backgrounds but also learning to work with people you don’t like or find very hard to deal with. Also depending on the type of job you have then there is the physical interaction with clients in meetings or more social client entertainment settings that develop an existing relationship or creates a new one.
So many younger people are potentially missing out on these key skills that will define their professional futures. Some will be fine but others will have missed out at an early stage which will then hamper their development when they might have had a much better path if they hadn’t been told that WFH is fine/great/doesn’t make a difference as the work gets done - it gets done yes but “done” isn’t the whole picture of someone’s career.
I was watching Get Back at the time though and was being distracted by John Lennon
I often travel on my own, and sometimes go for days out on my own.
But surely life is still about engaging with the world, however you choose to do it.
https://youtu.be/jwDMI0nOnAY
Now if course granny dying of Omicron is pretty anxiety inducing but the balance is critical. We have lived with many viruses and not insidiously degraded the mental health of our country.
Wearing masks is no costless. It impacts on mental health. But as you don't need to hook up to a ventilator if you have mental health issues no one gives a damn.
That wasn't my judgement, that was John Lennon.
We had a CLP meeting where the party had decreed we all take AS training. A party guide with a Corbyn forward. Describing what AS is. I read the guide. And looked at the images of JC walking behind an AS banner at a march that had just emerged. And heard the psychotics angrily denouncing the people saying AS is a problem.
Had a wonderful cleansing moment of absolute clarity, picked up my coat and walked out. I then joined the yellow lot and coordinated a GE campaign where we only targeted Tories and explicitly said Labour should win.
Which apparently is me being like one of the Mitford sisters only prettier.
Parliament could (and IMO should) have let the emergency powers lapse. In which case new regulations would need to come in via Parliament; but it didn't.
Parliament literally voted to allow Ministers to do this, so don't complain about it now. If Parliament wants to be spoken to first, they need to remove these powers from Ministers first.
I flounced at home with only Mrs BJ to observe. Mind you she had flounced weeks earlier.
My daughter has finally left the Labour Party last month so the only remaining supporter of Labour within the BJO family was my mum.
Sadly I cremated her last Tuesday ( not because she was still supporting Labour!!!),though
As an example of the opposite; an ex-colleague of Mrs J used to take photos of the meals he had in pubs and put them onto Facebook. Not special meals: just the fodder from the local chain pub. He went out every night, and was desperate to find someone to go out with. He ended up seeming a little attention-seeking and sad.
IMO an important key to a happy life (for me, at least) is to always have at least one challenge on the go. It doesn't have to be anything important or life-changing; just something that will stretch me and my abilities. Currently it is to do at least one run every day of the year, covid permitting. I don't know what next years challenge, or challenges, will be
Oliver Barnes
@mroliverbarnes
I asked a Sage adviser about the need for full plan B in England, the reply is very telling:
"If what we think we know [about Omicron] now turns out to be approximately true (and let's hope it doesn't) then Plan B won't be anywhere near stringent enough to stop this."
https://twitter.com/mroliverbarnes/status/1464651194937262088?s=20
The mask advice seems completely pointless in the face of OMICRON THE MIGHTY, unless it's a psychological step to soften us up, incrementally, for more restrictions later
It's a challenge and we'll see which organisations are adroit enough to take it on - the sense of being more productive, comfortable and happy sitting alone in an empty office is probably more widespread then believed.
The compartmentalisation of work and home life which was the by-product of huge social and working changes over the past two centuries is now being eroded and that will continue.
It's fine if you have another "place" to work within your home but if you don't, I can certainly understand why it would cause long-term problems.
Me, after a cracking day with excellent scenting conditions in the cold and wet and wind (go figure), I'm just having a glass of something and seeing what the reaction on here to Boris' announcement is.
Happy to be on PB, happy to acknowledge I'm on PB on a Saturday early evening.
Look after yourself.
Is it the Electoral Commission?
Hope we get a good turnout.
I view almost everybody across the Political Spectrum on here as Internet friends and will be nice to meet some additional posters.
Oh well, at least that'll be the end of all the restrictions.
Omicron will now rip through ALL the unvaccinated in the world. And it will be nasty,
Here is the same SA doctor woman - Coetzee - who was being quoted before by the overly cheerful as saying Omicron is "mild".: She did not really say that. Her words have been somewhat twisted.
She definitely said this:
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/
If Hoyle is cross then Hoyle should be cross with the MPs who renewed the emergency powers legislation rather than
There's no "compliance" to ensure when Parliament already approved Ministers having these emergency powers.
Robert Peston
@Peston
By far the most important Omicron initiative announced today by @BorisJohnson
is the PCR test within two days of arrival in UK and isolation till negative result. But it won’t be much use if, as is possible, Omicron is already seeding here.
I have always been wary of Conservative Government so it seemed pointless to support an organisation whose leader had done more than most Conservatives throughout his now almost 40 year parliamentary career to promote Conservative Governments and undermine Labour Governments.
I believe the revolution is now dead. My relationship with the Labour Party will never be the same again, but I have nonetheless gone back to worrying about why I dislike Conservative Governments more than I do Labour leaders.
UK Prime Minister
@10DowningStreet
United Kingdom government organization
· 2h
COVID UPDATE: Face coverings will become compulsory on public transport and in shops. Not including hospitality.
Have a good evening!
“The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms.” -Angelique Coetzee, the chairwoman of the South African Medical Association..."It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well. So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home.” Hospitals have NOT been overburdened by Omicron patients and the new strain has not been detected in vaccinated individuals there. We know those vaccinated from other countries infected have been mild or asymptomatic.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease/articleshow/87949404.cms
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464624263797878791?s=20
No mention of bed wetting, but that does appear to be a significant symptom, among those yet to catch it....
Omicron could be pretty grim in countries with more vax hesitancy in older cohorts (surprising places like Germany), and it could be hellish in the developing world which has not vaxed at all.
I can foresee almost all borders closing, for a while
Snow has melted, to a great extent, but the wind is now getting up again.
So time for the on-bus refreshments service.
Does this mean that Restaurant Cars are exempt?
What about my sandwiches?
And here she is in the Telegraph
"Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.
"“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.""
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/
It's great that her small sample of healthy young patients are doing well. But it is far too soon to be blithely optimistic and it is completely false to say “The new Omicron variant of the Coronavirus results in MILD disease, WITHOUT prominent symptoms"
As for our outlook here? If daily case rates sans NPI stabilise at an average circa 50k per day in the long term, that means the average person will catch this virus approximately once every 3-4 years. Luckily the genetic drift of coronaviruses is quite slow so there’s every reason to think relatively few people will be getting serious cases beyond this winter. At least versus a normal flu year. And when they do, they’ll benefit from an ever growing arsenal of therapeutics.
I think we can say with quite a bit of confidence that the direct impact on life expectancy in the 2020s will be statistical noise, although of course there are indirect effects too - initially negative but most likely highly positive in the medium to long term due to the fire lit under science budgets and innovation.
By the way been in bed all day, lost my sense of taste. Pcr in the post. Such is life now.
Drinking Sarsparilla.
At this point I have Less Than Zero sympathy for the unvaxxed (other than those who can't, for health reasons, of course). They are endangering themselves, but they have also been endangering the rest of us, and menacing the economy
Let OMICRON go to work on them, He will know his own
I support the travel ban to/from Southern Africa of course.
Grudgingly welcome the masks, although I personally loathe them.
They (governments of all stripes) wouldn’t be doing this of course unless they were incredibly concerned.
We await proper testing, but the markets on Friday told one story, and Israel’s complete border closure echoes that.
Via @thesundaytimes
Neither of you are traitors or back-stabbers. You have simply changed political allegiances as have many others of the once mighty legion of pb Tories.
I was off here for about 3 weeks after her death, but as I said to RP, time definitely is a superb healer.
Do we bring back furlough? Support for businesses who might lose Christmas trade?
"One at a time, please" used to be the standard Beano line when I was a reader, a few years ago. I may have lost some kilos by Feb.