After over-turning a 26% deficit can LAB’s recovery be sustained? – politicalbetting.com

That was frankly a complete waste of time. May even have been counterproductive.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

Journalist

Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

The UK closed the border first of all countries

I was watching this. What a stupid question.

IshmaelZ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

Just bloody get on with it....

The mere discovery doesn't, actually. For all we currently know omicron may get round the booster so easily it's a waste of time, and/or be so amazingly benign in the u40s that it's a waste of time.

Or a really nasty variant which is more deadly but less so for those triple jabbed.

It's quite incredible to me that after two years of covid biting us on the arse and deflating hubris faster than a pricked balloon, we still get people prepared to gamble by dithering.

Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.

Mexicanpete said:

noneoftheabove said:

SandyRentool said:

Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

In shops and transport. Mumbled it as hates giving bad news.

Bad news bear Saj is going to tell us later. Bozza is being quite Tiggerish, a contrast to the Dreary Brothers either side of him.

To be honest it was probably one of his better press conferences. Not much to object to even if we are probably overreacting as the precautionary principle applies.

As someone hoping to make my first international trip since 2019 next month, hope the mandated quarantine is at home rather than in an airport hotel.

ydoethur said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.

Yesterday I had to go to the pharmacy, so being in my mind a 'clinical setting' I put my mask on. Pharmacist and assistant were unmasked, other customers were unmasked. More fool me.

Roger said:

Some very good news!
This useless embarrassment of a Prime Minister is losing popularity at a speed that would make Jimmy Saville blush.

Sir Keir Starmer's qualities are finally showing themselves.

A little more media training and he should start moving ahead

(Could someone off stage tell Johnson that this is not intended as a political broadcast for himself. It really doesn't sound good)

Isn't his favourability about the same as it was just prior to the 2019 election?

Taz said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

Journalist

Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

The UK closed the border first of all countries

I was watching this. What a stupid question.

There’s been mostly stupid questions, at every single press conference for the past 20 months!

Susan Michie lying in her teeth. As usual.

Stuartinromford said:

Roger said:

Some very good news!
This useless embarrassment of a Prime Minister is losing popularity at a speed that would make Jimmy Saville blush and Sir Keir Starmer's qualities are finally showing themselves.

A little more media training and he should go roaring ahead

(Could someone off stage tell Johnson that this is not intended as a political broadcast for himself. It really doesn't sound good)

But I suspect Boris's worldview is that the whole world is a stage for Boris The Hero. True of most pols, even ones I like, natch. But some are more selfstruck than others.

On one he mask thing, I've got a bad feeling. Not that it's the wrong thing to do (smallish benefit for even smaller effort), but it isn't going to happen is it? TFL have supposedly had mask rules throughout, but we're well below 50% compliance on not-yet-Crossrail. It's about to become very-Crossrail (boomtish).

[Old Teacher Wisdom: It's bloody hard to tighten up on a rule that has been there on paper all along but has been allowed to slip...]

It is the rule here in Wales but largely ignored and certainly no obvious enforcement

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I have not heard any politician say covid is over and Boris has always made a caveat that a new variant could change the position

Journalist

Was it a mistake not to close the border quicker.

The UK closed the border first of all countries

I was watching this. What a stupid question.

There’s been mostly stupid questions, at every single press conference for the past 20 months!

True, WTF was I expecting.

We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

Boost, boost, boost!

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Lockdown now please. Stop the spread.

Compulsory masks are good though.

We really don’t need a lockdown. Masks yes, people are wearing them less and less.

MattW said:

williamglenn said:

Le Monde reports on the “surprisingly” good situation with Covid in the UK despite all restrictions being lifted in the summer.

https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2021/11/27/covid-19-l-etonnante-situation-sanitaire-du-royaume-uni_6103817_3244.html

Is Le Monde one of those outllets which have spent the last 3-4 months writing about case numbers?

They still think there’s a 2020-era link between case numbers and hospitalisations, having missed the 100m vaccines handed out in the meantime.

Don’t start them on test positivity rates between countries, that completely blows their mind!

Paging @HYUFD

Essex Omicron case:

https://twitter.com/Essex_CC/status/1464612651183525889?s=20

londonpubman said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I've got two gigs coming up. Next Thursday in Manchester, then Saturday week after that in that London. Both already have a "show us yer vax or no admittance" policy. Wonder if by the time we get anywhere near that the whole thing is shitcanned.

You should be ok, they should go ahead. You had better bring a mask though...

Apparently not required in hospitality per BBC so you won't need one unless the promoter or venue requires it

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.

You get evicted from the shops in Stasi Wales sans mask.

I haven't seen anyone thrown out of a shop even though Drakeford mandates it

No enforcement even in Asda around here

Sky just replayed Bozo's answer: "have to" he said. Near enough 'compulsory' then.

boulay said:

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Whitty says the discovery of omicron "really changes the risk-benefit calculations" over booster vaccines for the under-40s. JCVI will come back with its conclusions "rapidly", he adds.

https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1464647034242228234?s=20

Just bloody get on with it....

Indeed, I'd love to get my booster before Xmas. My wife wants to get her one done too.

Managed to get my booster today (AZ,AZ,Pfizer) as wanted to be fully tooled up ahead of December party season!

Aching a bit this afternoon but the mother of all headaches has attacked now…..

Similar experience, same vaccine combo. All fine after 24 hours

Eabhal said:

We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

Boost, boost, boost!

The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

Careers are at stake, specifically hers.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

I actually can't remember the last time I saw somebody wearing a mask in the shops round here.

You get evicted from the shops in Stasi Wales sans mask.

I haven't seen anyone thrown out of a shop even though Drakeford mandates it

No enforcement even in Asda around here

Once mask wearing drops below a certain critical mass it isn't enforceable anyway.

Shop. 'If you don't wear a mask, you must leave.'

All customers leave.

Shop 'ah...how do we pay our bills now?'

Police officer to non mask wearer. 'If you don't wear your mask I'll fine you.'

Several hundred people tear up FPT.

Police officer. 'You will all be committed for trial.'

Shopper. 'When?'

Police officer. 'Due to backlogs at the magistrates court and the fact I've just enormously increased their workload, 2025.'

People laugh and walk away.

The bigger problem is that when you try to enforce pointless laws and totally fail, you bring the wider law into disrepute. Which is in itself highly damaging.

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".

The rise of omicron will mean a "rethink" on how NHS deploys the antivirals it has on order, Chris Whitty tells me - the drugs must be used "in the right way and for the right people".

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

So which has a greater impact on reducing spread:

1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask

2. The same person WFH

I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.

Really does look as if the tests on the S.A. flights were either performed incorrectly or fraudulently:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10248551/Dozens-passengers-arrived-Holland-South-Africa-test-positive-Covid.html

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".

What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?

state_go_away said:

So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

Wow. You were happy to keep voting for *that* despite all the incompetence and corruption and embarrassment, but will not vote REFUK or whatever because masks to stop people dying.

Perhaps the Nigel will blame the boat non-people on bringing this new forrin pox to our shores.

Heathener said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.

Hypothetically, if in scenario one you are driving, couldn't you kill someone then as well?

(Not that I wear glasses, so I have no dog in that particular fight.)

state_go_away said:

ydoethur said:

state_go_away said:

So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

If they are brought back in classrooms I'm walking. I've had enough.

I think (and hope ) there are enough people to defy facemask wearing . Its a politician fix to be seen to be doing something when it does f all . If there is a new variant it will not stop its spead - has nothing been learned in the last 18 months? No reason to vote for you anymore Boris

TBF, I could never think of a reason to vote for him to start with. That's why I tore up my ballot paper.

Philip_Thompson said:

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.

Heathener said:

By the way, Taz masks are not being worn less and less where I live. And I noticed much greater compliance on my train the other day. One couple weren't wearing them but they got a piece of my mind.

Sorry. Wear a mask. It's tough shit. On the grand scale is not a big deal.

There are much more important issues surrounding this e.g. working in offices, policies on jabbing children, travel, lockdowns etc. etc. etc. A bit of cloth over your face is no more an inconvenience than wearing it over your vagina or willy.

You breathe and talk through your genitals?

pigeon said:

pm215 said:

Jab everyone 3 times ASAP. If we overdid it, hey, it's going to help beat Delta which is still a big problem.

They might need to work on the availability. I tried to book my booster this morning but the NHS website had no slots in Cambridge at all -- only site they offered was in Huntingdon. (I'm hoping that next week they'll load up some more booking slots into the system...)

Nothing is going to accelerate the booster programme unless they substantially increase the availability of the vaccination slots *and* cut the period between dose 2 and the booster to significantly less than six months.

At present the JCVI has plenty of time to dither about whether to let the under-40s have theirs. I'm 45 and being made to wait until December 29th. Even if the under-40s become eligible they're going to be waiting until about bloody February at the current rate of progress.

Isn't there a very direct bus service between those two?

(In Notts we have M.A. Trains, but none of the big ones due to backstabber Boris.)

(Broken quotes sorry)

I wear a mask in places where I am asked because I'm naturally pliant, but most do not wear them now in my experience (shops more than trains though). However, in part that is due to little attempt at positive encouragement beyond a sign at an entrance. If it is law again, and places direct staff to ask people to please wear one, compliance will definitely increase.

But how effective is that really going to be? At every stage of the pandemic people have underestimated the willingness of the average public to go along with covid rules, but even if compliance is higher, will that have an appreciable effect at this stage of the pandemic, when for over 3 months many tens of thousands have been testing positive every day, so many more than that per day will actually have been positive or exposed? Even if compliance is higher, will it just be performative compliance and not as effective as previous, more genuinely cautious compliance?

I'm not about to throw a wobbler about masks on liberty grounds, but I'm skeptical that what worked before will work now. Rates don't seem meaningfully affected by it at this stage if different rules in different places is anything to go by,

RochdalePioneers said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SandyRentool said:

Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.

He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121

He said that.

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".

What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?

Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.

Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

That response went right over your head then.

I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"

SandyRentool said:

So which has a greater impact on reducing spread:

1. Somebody travelling to work on the train while wearing a mask

2. The same person WFH

I vote for 2. Bozo's policy is 1.

This is primarily driven by businesses and employees, not government. About half the jobs can't be done at home anyway, the rest will find the right balance for them based on impact of working from home vs covid risks. That won't be the same across all businesses.

malcolmg said:

DavidL said:

Eabhal said:

We've been wearing masks throughout in Scotland. Do we have any evidence that it's had a significant effect on admissions?

At this point the only meaningful thing you can do is close some combination of pubs, schools and inside gatherings, which is basically full lockdown and won't happen unless this really is a problem.

Boost, boost, boost!

The continued use of masks in Scotland has had very important consequences. They have given Nicola more time in which she has an excuse not to demand a referendum that she knows she is going to lose. What could be more important than that?

Careers are at stake, specifically hers.

David, that si rubbish, she has a bag full of excuses and has no plans for a referendum. Personbally the mask wearing in shops/transport is sensible and most decent people are happy to oblige. Only the knuckle draggers ignore it. Personally I would use the cattle prods on them.

I'm 50:50 on this. I think the mask wearing is sensible if backed up by evidence.

It does fit into the narrative of Scotland as a caring, eco country as distinct from a cut-throat, selfish, racist England.

See the coalition with the Greens and mantra of economic growth not being relevant any more (good political strategy if your fiscal position is rubbish).

RochdalePioneers said:

state_go_away said:

So I have lost the only reason that i continue to vote Tory . If facemasks are back my vote is gone. Facemasks do F all but plunge into a world of souless misery

Wow. You were happy to keep voting for *that* despite all the incompetence and corruption and embarrassment, but will not vote REFUK or whatever because masks to stop people dying.

Perhaps the Nigel will blame the boat non-people on bringing this new forrin pox to our shores.

What?

RochdalePioneers said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

That response went right over your head then.

I quite enjoyed "You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation"

As you are a self-stated federalist, that certainly is wrong, whether Max meant the UK or Scotland!

[edited - sorry, suddenly realised soi-disant had a possible negative meaning, not intended]

DavidL said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.

The only thing I can think of as a sort of general anecdote in their favour is that while they were compulsory in schools - which overwhelming evidence shows are the main vector of transmission - cases actually remained pretty low.

When they were removed, case numbers climbed rapidly.

Now that's not bad evidence that - contrary to what I would dearly wish - they can be quite effective.

However, there is another question. Is the considerable damage and inconvenience they can cause - particularly to those who, like me, are somewhat deaf and rely on lip reading to communicate effectively - worth the impact on transmission?

I would argue, not up to this moment.

What hasn't been laid out yet is clear evidence that this new form of the virus changes that.

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

It will be a real struggle to get people to wear masks again because Covid is a clear and present danger having told them that they don't need them because Covid is over.

Who told them Covid is over? Having no restrictions is not the same as saying it’s over.
I agree that it will be a struggle though. I’ve never stopped wearing masks in shops, so no bother for me, but a lot have.

Its been the clear and consistent implication for yonks. No need to worry about it any more, and even if there's 40k cases a day for months and months so what.

Mate, you've got no fucking idea how the virus works. Look across the continent, hospitalisations and deaths are exploding. They're getting their exit wave in the winter and all at once. The idea that a nation can simply avoid it is something put forwards by simpletons.

Love we haven't had our exit wave yet either. We have had a sustained endless base level where 30-40k cases a day are supposedly good. We're now about to witness that we are just as fucked as everyone else because we (the west) have selfishly not vaccinated the world and oh look here comes that "fuck your vaccine" variant we've been waiting for.

I hope this turns out to be precautionary measures and it isn't that bad. Then Javid keeps visibly shatting himself and I think "maybe it is that bad".

What do you mean we haven't had our exit wave yet, can you provide any real data to support this claim, the LSHTM have laid out their evidence and forecast showing that the UK has already had it, are you seriously saying you know better than the actually global experts on viral modelling?

You seem almost excited at the prospect of a vaccine evading variant, as if this will prove you right somehow and the government strategy wrong so fuck everything else because RP wants to be right.

You're a real piece of work, you're a Labour man that betrayed the party and joined the Lib Dems. It says everything I need to know about exactly what kind of person you are. You have got absolutely zero loyalty, not to your party and not to your nation. You seemingly want us to suffer from a vaccine evading variant so you can prove that your agenda was right. How fucked up are you?

Setting aside the mouth foaming at the end, the word "exit" usually suggests the end of something, departure, moving from one thing to another thing.

It is a new definition of "exit" when we sustain 30-40+k new cases every day for month after month after month with no signs of it ending.

Yes, it is. Foxy posted about this extensively right at the beginning of the pandemic, you spread the cases out over a long period of time rather than have them all at once. Your stupidity almost defies all reason.

Then even had a term for it...flattening the...square...the circle...or something.

I see there's been another surge in the bog standard mask man baby variant. Persistent little blighter that one.

Charles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SandyRentool said:

Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.

He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121

He said that.

Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.

DavidL said:

Carnyx said:

DavidL said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

We have had a large scale real time experiment on this. Both Scotland and Wales have required much more mask wearing by law than England for some months now. In my experience there has been large scale, if decreasing, compliance with the law. If masks worked there really should be a clear and unequivocal change in the infection rate by now. But there is no evidence of this. Scotland actually went to a much higher rate than England although they have come down a bit since.

The onus now must surely be on those contending that masks used by the general public, as opposed to by professionals in medical settings, are useful. I would like to see their evidence. If they have a compelling case that other confounding factors are why we are not seeing this differentiation in 2 different countries I would really like to see it.

Prima facie. Different patterns of change at different time indicate other factors also operating. Impossible to separate out AFAIK.Scotland was better than England some of the time - worse some of the time - with no correlation with mask wearing. Ditto Wales. Masks are known to help in principle and in tests. They are a reasonable precaution in the current circumstances.

I think that they were a perfectly reasonable thing to try. They might have helped as a hypothetical. Last winter, even if they did not help much with Covid, I think that they probably helped us have a very mild flu season when our hospitals were chokka. That very probably saved lives. I would be open to an argument we should try the same again this flu season where our hospitals are busy enough. But I agree with your observation that there is "no correlation with mask wearing".

The weight of the evidence, to me, seems to supports the contention that mask wearing by amateurs really has a negligible or no effect on the spread of Covid. Its a pity, but there we are.

On mask wearing the number of people wearing them incorrectly including below the nose is astonishing

RochdalePioneers said:

Charles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SandyRentool said:

Sky's on-screen caption claims that the PM said masks will be mandatory. I didn't hear it.

That's not quite what he said, he said tightening of the rules.

He can't even fucking announce critical stuff, what a tool https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464646583862149121

He said that.

Most people who were watching don't seem to have heard that. Perhaps you are here to correct the record and tell us that whilst we didn't hear that we definitely did.

Actually, I did hear him say that as well.

I laughed because the idea of track and trace actually performing such a feat is up there with the idea of Johnson keeping his marriage vows.

SandyRentool said:

Heathener said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Heathener said:

pigeon said:

rottenborough said:

Media desperate for a new round of restrictions.

There are an awful lot of wankers trying to hype this up for clickbait.

There are an awful lot of selfish wankers not wearing masks in this country.

There's an awful lot of selfish wankers wanting to inflict masks upon others in this country.

Here's the difference. You wear a mask and it makes your glasses steam up.

You don't wear a mask, you kill someone.

You are the selfish wanker if that's your attitude but that's tories for you.

You wear an FFP3 mask, it doesn't matter whether others are masked or not. You are then protecting yourself.

Just place your glasses over the nose piece of the mask, don't cover your glasses with your mask. They won't steam up then. That's what I do.