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Trump becoming a stronger favourite for WH2024 – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    Farooq said:

    darkage said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He is often/sometimes described as the French Trump and the way the Speccie piece is written he is running rings around the rest of the candidates and sucking up all the media oxygen.

    Sound familiar??

    From the daily mail article above:

    "Zemmour has been likened to a Gallic Donald Trump, but is more extreme than the former American President.

    The Frenchmen despises immigrants, Left wingers, woke culture and even feminists, whom he blames for weakening France."

    Looking forward to people to getting their heads around potentially 45% of france voting for this. Here he would be proscribed as an extremist. A lot of his reported views cannot even be expressed in the UK.

    conservative voices are being silenced
    Said no one in the mainstream ever.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Tipped by who?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    That's a fair point.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478
    rcs1000 said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Tipped by who?
    Has he actually declared his candidacy yet ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,343
    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    At the Tower today. Absolutely bumping. Tourists back in droves and a wedding at St Peter’s which was nice to see
    Blackpool Tower?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited October 23

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    At the Tower today. Absolutely bumping. Tourists back in droves and a wedding at St Peter’s which was nice to see
    Blackpool Tower?
    No, the one in Portsmouth surely.

    Edit: but on reflection there are three - the square one, the round one, and the modern rotating one.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    rcs1000 said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Tipped by who?
    Why? Do you want to offer them odds?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,980
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    Trumpism is a religion. If Islam or Christianity are slightly more popular than the other one year, its followers dont swap Mohammed or Jesus for Peter or Paul.
    That's a really good take. I thought football teams were a good analogy but this is better, as it explains the complete non acceptance of the result too.
    The Democrats are at a fundamental disadvantage believing in democracy and so forth now - as the Trumpsters believe it is their god given right to rule America.
    If the Republicans changed their leader as often as Watford the world might be a better place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    edited October 23
    Taz said:

    Farooq said:

    darkage said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He is often/sometimes described as the French Trump and the way the Speccie piece is written he is running rings around the rest of the candidates and sucking up all the media oxygen.

    Sound familiar??

    From the daily mail article above:

    "Zemmour has been likened to a Gallic Donald Trump, but is more extreme than the former American President.

    The Frenchmen despises immigrants, Left wingers, woke culture and even feminists, whom he blames for weakening France."

    Looking forward to people to getting their heads around potentially 45% of france voting for this. Here he would be proscribed as an extremist. A lot of his reported views cannot even be expressed in the UK.

    conservative voices are being silenced
    Said no one in the mainstream ever.
    Social conservatives often are, the establishment view is generally economically conservative but socially liberal in the UK and USA, certainly in the private sector. In the public sector by contrast the establishment view is economically big government but still also socially liberal.

    Economic leftwingers are often seen as misguided but with their heart in the right place, social conservatives and those who prefer the nation state to globalism however are seen as positively dangerous by much of the western elite now
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    At the Tower today. Absolutely bumping. Tourists back in droves and a wedding at St Peter’s which was nice to see
    Blackpool Tower?
    Beauchamp Tower, Salt Tower, Martin’s Tower and the White Tower were on today’s itinerary
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Looking at the French polls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election), Le Pen and Zemmour seem to be largely fishing in the same pool.

    If Zemmour stands (and it's now definite that he would be an independent, not the LR candidate), Le Pen drops from 26% to 15%, and Zemmour gets 15 to 18%. If you assume Bertrand is the LR candidate, that means that you could well have a result that looks something like this:

    Macron - 25%
    Zemmour - 15%
    Bertrand - 15%
    Le Pen - 15%

    That's a pretty tight three way split for second. If Bertrand were to come second, then he should probably be odds on for the Presidency.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited October 23
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    At the Tower today. Absolutely bumping. Tourists back in droves and a wedding at St Peter’s which was nice to see
    Blackpool Tower?
    Beauchamp Tower, Salt Tower, Martin’s Tower and the White Tower were on today’s itinerary
    St Peter ad Vinculas was a bit of a giveaway, one has to admit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    Strange thing was, he always thought far more of the Germans than the French. Wouldn’t hear a word against Rommel or von Thoma. Enjoyed a good joke about the French.

    Mind you, he hated the Japanese. Complained even when they showed Japanese golfers at the US Open.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Tipped by who?
    Has he actually declared his candidacy yet ?
    No.

    But he's going round doing more and more campaign type things.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    The past is ambiguous. We have so often been at war with the French, yet their cultural impact upon this country has been enormous. Our law of property is largely derived from French concepts, along with our military organisation and terminology.
    We've also fought alongside the French twice in the last 120 years, after they were invaded by the Germans.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited October 23
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    Strange thing was, he always thought far more of the Germans than the French. Wouldn’t hear a word against Rommel or von Thoma. Enjoyed a good joke about the French.

    Mind you, he hated the Japanese. Complained even when they showed Japanese golfers at the US Open.
    Mine was in the RN - was of an age to be about to be sent out to the Pacific when the bombs fell. Didn't have a lot to say about the Germans but wouldn't hear anything against nuclear weapons in later life.

    Ended up being dragooned into the school twinning programme for lack of any other male teacher - never having shown any interest whatsoever before - and in the end went to France every year to see the friends he made there. For almost 45 years.

    Edit: he was a bit twitchy about the Japanese - evidently from what he heard in the mess deck. I never dared buy him any Japanese whisky (I usually got him some old reliable plus something new each birthday and Christmas).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    We sank their navy at Mers el-Kebir in 1940
    Only the battleship Bretagne and a tug boat were sunk outright.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    We still haven’t seen the ‘end of the beginning’ as far as Trump’s legal problems are concerned. Could well be that once that point is reached his house of cards will collapse quite quickly.
    If Trump has an implosion, I suspect it will be a financial one.
  • Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the French polls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election), Le Pen and Zemmour seem to be largely fishing in the same pool.

    If Zemmour stands (and it's now definite that he would be an independent, not the LR candidate), Le Pen drops from 26% to 15%, and Zemmour gets 15 to 18%. If you assume Bertrand is the LR candidate, that means that you could well have a result that looks something like this:

    Macron - 25%
    Zemmour - 15%
    Bertrand - 15%
    Le Pen - 15%

    That's a pretty tight three way split for second. If Bertrand were to come second, then he should probably be odds on for the Presidency.

    Bertrand still loses 53%-47% for Macron in the latest poll while has a tie 50%-50% with Macron in the one before.

    However if he does not get through to the runoff which still looks likely to be between Macron and Le Pen or Zemmour then I expect that Les Republicans will just focus on trying to get most seats in the National Assemblee which also votes next Spring

    http://www.commission-des-sondages.fr/notices/files/notices/2021/octobre/9225-p-hi-challenges-v18.pdf

    https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Presentation-LAZARE-DEF-19.10.2021-18h15.pdf
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,980
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    We still haven’t seen the ‘end of the beginning’ as far as Trump’s legal problems are concerned. Could well be that once that point is reached his house of cards will collapse quite quickly.
    If Trump has an implosion, I suspect it will be a financial one.
    Perhaps one waffer thin Big Mac too many.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319

    UK Local R

    Some interesting indications of a fall in R....

    Yes, certainly a suggestion that the catch up spike in the SW is, if not over, then not as bad as i feared.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    At the Tower today. Absolutely bumping. Tourists back in droves and a wedding at St Peter’s which was nice to see
    Blackpool Tower?
    Beauchamp Tower, Salt Tower, Martin’s Tower and the White Tower were on today’s itinerary
    St Peter ad Vinculas was a bit of a giveaway, one has to admit.
    Given I didn’t name it in full you get a bonus point
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the French polls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election), Le Pen and Zemmour seem to be largely fishing in the same pool.

    If Zemmour stands (and it's now definite that he would be an independent, not the LR candidate), Le Pen drops from 26% to 15%, and Zemmour gets 15 to 18%. If you assume Bertrand is the LR candidate, that means that you could well have a result that looks something like this:

    Macron - 25%
    Zemmour - 15%
    Bertrand - 15%
    Le Pen - 15%

    That's a pretty tight three way split for second. If Bertrand were to come second, then he should probably be odds on for the Presidency.

    Bertrand still loses 53%-47% for Macron in the latest poll while has a tie 50%-50% with Macron in the one before.

    However if he does not get through to the runoff which still looks likely to be between Macron and Le Pen or Zemmour then I expect that Les Republicans will just focus on trying to get most seats in the National Assemblee which also votes next Spring

    http://www.commission-des-sondages.fr/notices/files/notices/2021/octobre/9225-p-hi-challenges-v18.pdf

    https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Presentation-LAZARE-DEF-19.10.2021-18h15.pdf
    I don't disagree with that: Macron v Le Pen is still the most likely run-off. The appearance of Zemmour, though, does increase the chance of Bertrand making the final two.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859
    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Some interesting indications of a fall in R....

    Yes, certainly a suggestion that the catch up spike in the SW is, if not over, then not as bad as i feared.
    We've gone from 20-25% WoW growth to around 0-5%. I wonder whether all of this panic has been confected over nothing in the end.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Some interesting indications of a fall in R....

    Yes, certainly a suggestion that the catch up spike in the SW is, if not over, then not as bad as i feared.
    My father was panicked about that, thinking the virus had suddenly gone mad in his area (he lives in Gloucester) until I explained what had happened. He then agreed that made a lot more sense.

    Thank you, PB.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Some interesting indications of a fall in R....

    Yes, certainly a suggestion that the catch up spike in the SW is, if not over, then not as bad as i feared.
    As ive been saying... interesting that the ons rates for the sw are not out of line with other parts of the U.K., so clearly our current ‘case’ rates are being heavily enhanced by retesting (even accounting for the lag in the one data). If the sw spike was down to more genuine spread and cases, it would be showing in the ons figures, and it’s not.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    It's taken a hundred years or so but it sounds like the Daily Mail has at last found a right wing nutter that it doesn't like.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    It's taken a hundred years or so but it sounds like the Daily Mail has at last found a right wing nutter that it doesn't like.
    Wasn’t too keen on Churchill in the 1930s.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Some interesting indications of a fall in R....

    Yes, certainly a suggestion that the catch up spike in the SW is, if not over, then not as bad as i feared.
    My father was panicked about that, thinking the virus had suddenly gone mad in his area (he lives in Gloucester) until I explained what had happened. He then agreed that made a lot more sense.

    Thank you, PB.
    Although anecdata time. Last Saturday I attended a thank you NHS craft fair in my parents village. My dad popped over today and related a local Covid spike, that villagers are linking to the craft fair. TBF not many masks in use... I’ve not succumbed yet...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478
    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited October 23
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    In fairness, cut the hot air from MBS and they’d be halfway there already despite all the oil.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,771
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited October 23
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    Again, many memberw of the House of Saud rather dumber than trees have recently been planted on the orders of the Crown Prince.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    It really is a tribal thing, isn't it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    Great to see them doing their bit. Clearly the eco activists on the Arabian peninsula are doing good work.
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    In fairness, cut the hot air from MBS and they’d be halfway there already despite all the oil.
    Oil doesn’t just produce fossil fuels.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,343
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    That's exactly what is being planned.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,540
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
  • rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo6C_CebBqc
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    One thing the GOP doesn't have, which they did have last time round is the incumbent vice president.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Were they badly executed or should they not have happened at all?
    Shouldn't have happened at all - replaced the Nazis with the even worst occupiers of the Americans. (I take it this guy is a Vichyite.)
    France has long had a major pseudo-fascist strain to them. The fact they still adore Napoleon, a warmongering dictator that re-enslaved emancipated slaves, says it all. Britain is very lucky its conservatives embraced mass suffrage in the 1830s.
    under 3% = mass suffrage?
    Compared to the modern system where the 1% decide everything?
    An elision from "suffrage" to "decide". Noted.
    What's your proposal for doing away with the 1%'s power? Genuinely interested.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    Farooq

    O, for a Q
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,461

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    Amazing how this is becoming a mainstream expectation - that America is about to junk democracy. I'm not there with it yet. My Overton window isn't quite that wide.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    We were Crécy ever to change our minds.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460
    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    We went to see our daughters in a dance and drama show this evening, very much Guardian and organic food territory (obvs - why would anyone live anywhere else?). We were told that mask wearing was optional - whereupon well over 90% of attendees put their masks on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    I think if iSage are in favour of plan B plus some extra stuff, that’s a pretty clear sign that it’s (a) not needed and (b) a very bad idea.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    the media is driven by news stories
    What else should they cover instead?

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478
    Highest mask wearing place I went to recently was probably Waitrose a week last thursday...
    Felt like we stood out by not wearing a mask, although epidemiologically of course THEY were keeping ME safe :D
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,771

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    That's exactly what is being planned.
    You sure? They say they will plant lots of trees, they don't say where. Trees do like water.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    the media is driven by news stories
    What else should they cover instead?

    There is a responsibility to have balance. It’s the shouting fire in the theatre situation again.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    Did you miss the ‘like’ in the simile?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    That's exactly what is being planned.
    You sure? They say they will plant lots of trees, they don't say where. Trees do like water.
    They will burn oil to make electricity to heat sea water to make potable water.

    And then they'll use that water the trees.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    Great to see them doing their bit. Clearly the eco activists on the Arabian peninsula are doing good work.
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    In fairness, cut the hot air from MBS and they’d be halfway there already despite all the oil.
    Oil doesn’t just produce fossil fuels.
    Oil produces fossil fuels?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    Did you miss the ‘like’ in the simile?
    It was probably edited out of the post, by iSage, before it reached my screen.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    That's exactly what is being planned.
    You sure? They say they will plant lots of trees, they don't say where. Trees do like water.
    They’ll probably follow the UAE playbook - nuclear power stations and a few hundred square kilometres of solar parks.

    Newer cities in the Middle East use ‘grey’ water for irrigation, which is half-treated waste water, as opposed to using clean water which is expensively desalinated seawater.

    The cars will still be V8s for a while though, not many Teslas around when petrol is cheap and electricity expensive.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,309
    edited October 23
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    The pandemic in the UK is morphing into endemic and just as flu is dealt with by yearly vaccines, so will covid

    The constant attacks from the media coming from the left completely ignore the charts shown at Downing Street and elsewhere as they do not fit their agenda

    The JCVI should be condemned across the political spectrum for their inexcusable decision to delay vaccinating the young people and they need disbanding

    I am not a fan of Boris but on this he has my support and I have no reason to believe I am wrong when looking at this analytically rather than politically

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,771
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    We were Crécy ever to change our minds.
    Indeed, what could be poitier?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    Great to see them doing their bit. Clearly the eco activists on the Arabian peninsula are doing good work.
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    In fairness, cut the hot air from MBS and they’d be halfway there already despite all the oil.
    Oil doesn’t just produce fossil fuels.
    Oil produces fossil fuels?
    Actually - I understand what you're saying.

    You're saying that oil is useful for many things other than transport fuels - plastics, etc.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267
    "I am not a fan of Boris but"

    :wink:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,343
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    Amazing how this is becoming a mainstream expectation - that America is about to junk democracy. I'm not there with it yet. My Overton window isn't quite that wide.
    Overton bi-folding doors.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    Great to see them doing their bit. Clearly the eco activists on the Arabian peninsula are doing good work.
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    In fairness, cut the hot air from MBS and they’d be halfway there already despite all the oil.
    Oil doesn’t just produce fossil fuels.
    Oil produces fossil fuels?
    In a manner of speaking. I mean you can’t put crude oil in your car, so the fuel is produced... And we derive a huge amount of other stuff from oil.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,343

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    We went to see our daughters in a dance and drama show this evening, very much Guardian and organic food territory (obvs - why would anyone live anywhere else?). We were told that mask wearing was optional - whereupon well over 90% of attendees put their masks on.
    Then all went to the pub or an eatery afterwards and took them off.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    Evening all :)

    Have to say I didn't see much evidence of mask wearing in Asda in Barking this morning.

    Is Zemmour a conservative? Really?

    On to more immediate matters and the Bulgarian general election on November 14th (just three weeks away, election fans).

    The latest poll (changes since July 2021 election):

    GERB/SDS: 22.5% (-1.0)
    Coalition for Bulgaria: 15.1% (+1.7)
    We Continue the Change: 13.4% (+13.4)
    There is Such a Nation: 12.2% (-11.9)
    Democratic Bulgaria: 11.2% (-1.4)
    Movement of Rights and Freedoms: 10.8% (+0.1)
    Stand Up BG!: 3.7% (-1.3)
    Revival: 2.9% (-0.1)
    Bulgarian National Movement: 2.3% (-0.8)

    The big change is the rise of the new "We Continue the Change" (PP) and the splintering of "There is Such a Nation" (ITN). It looks as though Borisov will be back as Prime Minister. The Coalition for Bulgaria has been out of power since a heavy defeat in 2014 - they have worked with the Movement of Rights and Freedoms in the past.

    We mustn't forget the Bulgarian Presidential election is also happening - the rivalry between Borisov and President Rumen Radev was one of the factors behind the political instability which has bedevilled the country in the past 12-18 months.

    Radev is supported by the Coalition of Bulgaria and PP suggesting a possible coalition. His main rival is Anastas Gerdzhikov who is backed by Borisov and GERB. However, the latest poll has Radev on 51.2%, miles ahead.

    The question is whether the anti-GERB elements can find enough common ground to hammer out a coalition agreement.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    There is some correlation, 60% of Remainers say they would feel much less safe in a crowded place if people were not wearing facemasks. However only 50% of Leavers say they would feel much less safe in such a situation

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/survey-results/daily/2021/10/20/5228e/2
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    We were Crécy ever to change our minds.
    Indeed, what could be poitier?
    That didn’t work and it was Navarre going to.
  • Farooq said:

    "I am not a fan of Boris but"

    :wink:

    You need to follow my posts rather than make silly comments
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,343
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol @ Saudi Arabia pledging net zero by 2060.

    I expect they will plant lots of trees out there
    That's exactly what is being planned.
    You sure? They say they will plant lots of trees, they don't say where. Trees do like water.
    Good point. Perhaps they will fund rewilding elsewhere.

    I had assumed desalination and trees in the sand.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    "I am not a fan of Boris but"

    :wink:

    You need to follow my posts rather than make silly comments
    I'm not a fan of silly comments but
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    But think of the Scots Greys and 42nd at Waterloo etc.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    "I am not a fan of Boris but"

    :wink:

    You need to follow my posts rather than make silly comments
    I'm not a fan of silly comments but
    I am too polite to respond and grown up
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    We were Crécy ever to change our minds.
    Indeed, what could be poitier?
    That didn’t work and it was Navarre going to.
    We? What's this 'we'?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    changed? The precedent was doubtless set by his ancestors hundreds of years prior.
    We were Crécy ever to change our minds.
    Indeed, what could be poitier?
    That didn’t work and it was Navarre going to.
    We? What's this 'we'?
    Pas.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,197
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    edited October 23
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    Amazing how this is becoming a mainstream expectation - that America is about to junk democracy. I'm not there with it yet. My Overton window isn't quite that wide.
    Even then it would not be junking democracy, just making the elected legislature elect the President. Actually no different to how Italy, Germany or India and South Africa already elect their Presidents and there is nothing in the US constitution to stop the Congress electing the President if both chambers object to the EC results
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
    Not all the population, just those who voted leave...
  • AslanAslan Posts: 732
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    Amazing how this is becoming a mainstream expectation - that America is about to junk democracy. I'm not there with it yet. My Overton window isn't quite that wide.
    Even then it would not be junking democracy, just making the elected legislature elect the President. Actually no different to how Italy, Germany or India and South Africa already elect their Presidents and there is nothing in the US constitution to stop the Congress electing the President if both chambers object to the EC results
    But those aren't the rules of the US constitution. And it would only be changed if the Republican lost. I have always given you the benefit of the doubt on here. But if you now become an apologist for the end of US democracy then you deserve to be called every name under the sun.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
    Not all the population, just those who voted leave...
    And they want to achieve this by [checks notes] being overcautious with masks and lockdowns.
    Sneaky, remoaners. Veeery sneaky.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    HYUFD said:


    Even then it would not be junking democracy, just making the elected legislature elect the President. Actually no different to how Italy, Germany or India and South Africa already elect their Presidents and there is nothing in the US constitution to stop the Congress electing the President if both chambers object to the EC results

    I thought your earlier comment on Zemmour's polling interesting.

    In a multi-party election, 43% usually means you win - in a Presidential election with two main candidates and a few fringe candidates, 46% can be enough for victory but not always.

    In a run-off with just two candidates, 43% always loses.

    A little bit of comparing apples with helicopters.

    By the way, did you suggest last evening that if you had a vote in the French Presidential election, you would support the LR candidate in the first round (which I understand completely) but if the run off were between Zemmour and Macron, you'd vote for Zemmour? If I have misrepresented your view, I apologise.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    Aslan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (1) If the Republicans struggle at the mid-terms (i.e. lose the Senate outright *or* fail to gain the House), then Trump ceases to be a lock for the nomination. In this scenario, DeSantis (despite recent issues) has to be clear Republican favorite.

    Isn't the mistake here to view the situation through political orthodoxy. Trump lost the last election. He lost the popular vote twice in a row. In the political orthodoxy that would mark him out as a big fat loser and he wouldn't have a hope in hell of the nomination. And to add to all that he is in compete denial of his defeat and provoked his supporters to storm the Capitol.

    Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?

    In the reality bubble inhabited by Trump supporters defeat is victory.

    Though I suppose this argument is somewhat moot, given that the Democrats seem to be trying hard not to win the mid-terms.
    "Why would the GOP under-performing in the mid-terms have any bearing on his nomination prospects?"

    Main reasoning behind this hypothesis methinks, is that IF the Republicans do win back control of BOTH housed of Congress, then Trump will count on the GOP declaring him the winner regardless of the actual popular vote results as translated into electoral college votes.
    Amazing how this is becoming a mainstream expectation - that America is about to junk democracy. I'm not there with it yet. My Overton window isn't quite that wide.
    Even then it would not be junking democracy, just making the elected legislature elect the President. Actually no different to how Italy, Germany or India and South Africa already elect their Presidents and there is nothing in the US constitution to stop the Congress electing the President if both chambers object to the EC results
    But those aren't the rules of the US constitution. And it would only be changed if the Republican lost. I have always given you the benefit of the doubt on here. But if you now become an apologist for the end of US democracy then you deserve to be called every name under the sun.
    The rules of the US constitution simply state that Congress must affirm EC results and select the President and VP.

    The Electoral Count Act of 1887 allows both Chambers to object to states EC results, so if both the Senate and the House throw out the EC results of a number of key swing states for one candidate they can then make the opposing candidate the winner and elect them as winner of the EC.

    That is not the end of democracy, as I said merely the elected House of Representatives and the elected Senate (remember it needs majorities of both to uphold EC objections) determining the President
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 940
    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
    Not all the population, just those who voted leave...
    And they want to achieve this by [checks notes] being overcautious with masks and lockdowns.
    Sneaky, remoaners. Veeery sneaky.
    I think this started as a comparison of behaviours. Not quite sure how we’ve reached remainers wanting wipe out leavers using Covid...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Have to say I didn't see much evidence of mask wearing in Asda in Barking this morning.

    Is Zemmour a conservative? Really?

    On to more immediate matters and the Bulgarian general election on November 14th (just three weeks away, election fans).

    The latest poll (changes since July 2021 election):

    GERB/SDS: 22.5% (-1.0)
    Coalition for Bulgaria: 15.1% (+1.7)
    We Continue the Change: 13.4% (+13.4)
    There is Such a Nation: 12.2% (-11.9)
    Democratic Bulgaria: 11.2% (-1.4)
    Movement of Rights and Freedoms: 10.8% (+0.1)
    Stand Up BG!: 3.7% (-1.3)
    Revival: 2.9% (-0.1)
    Bulgarian National Movement: 2.3% (-0.8)

    The big change is the rise of the new "We Continue the Change" (PP) and the splintering of "There is Such a Nation" (ITN). It looks as though Borisov will be back as Prime Minister. The Coalition for Bulgaria has been out of power since a heavy defeat in 2014 - they have worked with the Movement of Rights and Freedoms in the past.

    We mustn't forget the Bulgarian Presidential election is also happening - the rivalry between Borisov and President Rumen Radev was one of the factors behind the political instability which has bedevilled the country in the past 12-18 months.

    Radev is supported by the Coalition of Bulgaria and PP suggesting a possible coalition. His main rival is Anastas Gerdzhikov who is backed by Borisov and GERB. However, the latest poll has Radev on 51.2%, miles ahead.

    The question is whether the anti-GERB elements can find enough common ground to hammer out a coalition agreement.

    Zemmour is a Gaullist conservative on economics, a French nationalist and social conservative
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,487
    edited October 23
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Even then it would not be junking democracy, just making the elected legislature elect the President. Actually no different to how Italy, Germany or India and South Africa already elect their Presidents and there is nothing in the US constitution to stop the Congress electing the President if both chambers object to the EC results

    I thought your earlier comment on Zemmour's polling interesting.

    In a multi-party election, 43% usually means you win - in a Presidential election with two main candidates and a few fringe candidates, 46% can be enough for victory but not always.

    In a run-off with just two candidates, 43% always loses.

    A little bit of comparing apples with helicopters.

    By the way, did you suggest last evening that if you had a vote in the French Presidential election, you would support the LR candidate in the first round (which I understand completely) but if the run off were between Zemmour and Macron, you'd vote for Zemmour? If I have misrepresented your view, I apologise.

    Yes, I would vote for the LR candidate in the first round and against all opponents in the presidential runoff, Macron against Le Pen and I would consider voting for Zemmour against Macron if I were French. Though of course I am not.

    I would vote for LR in the legislative elections
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,267

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
    Not all the population, just those who voted leave...
    And they want to achieve this by [checks notes] being overcautious with masks and lockdowns.
    Sneaky, remoaners. Veeery sneaky.
    I think this started as a comparison of behaviours. Not quite sure how we’ve reached remainers wanting wipe out leavers using Covid...
    It's all down to iSage controlling the media. Everything else flows logically from that.
    If that turns out not to be true, who knows what else we're wrong about? Heliocentricity, the atomic theory of matter, the Laffer curve... it's a frightening thought.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    darkage said:

    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.

    There used to be a cool exhibition near Urquhart castle on the west side. I ran the Loch Ness marathon once and definitely didn’t see the monster, and I took my time too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,498
    darkage said:

    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.

    There are lots of Nessy themed spots as I recall, but the 'best' place for sightings is Castle Urquhart
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Ratters said:

    "A Government scientific adviser said he is 'very fearful' there will be another 'lockdown Christmas'. Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), said case numbers and death rates are currently 'unacceptable'."

    D Mail


    We are all "fearful" of a winter lockdown, but mainly because scientists like this fellah (has anyone heard of him before today??) are likely to be pushing for one and ignoring the stupendous damage they do.

    It does seem the usual suspects are trying to apply concerted pressure in a similar way to what we saw before the last of the rules were relaxed.

    The trouble they have is that cases will likely be falling again in a couple of weeks, so the government just needs to hold off until then.
    It is full on across the media with no balance

    It looks like iSage's last stand and no matter how much unbalanced pressure Boris needs to hold the line until after half term at least
    ,,,do you think that iSage controls the media?
    It dominates it
    riiiiiight
    The issue is, like the confected ‘fuel crisis’ (over I note), the media is driven by news stories, and iSAGE is happily, and shrilly providing them. There has been little attempt in the media to provide a diversity of opinion. There are arguments for imposing plan b, but there are counter arguments too.
    Yes, they are a bunch of useful idiots, who can be relied upon to critisise whatever is the current policy.

    As others have said, what we’re seeing now is like the last cry of the Remoaners from 2019, desparate to get any attention they can, as they fight against the inevitable. What are they all going to do with their lives, when the pandemic’s over and Newsnight stops calling?
    Remoaners? I'm a little confused now I thought we were talking about Covid.
    The idea is that Remainers secretly want the population wiped out by Covid. That will reflect poorly on Boris and by implication Brexit.
    Not all the population, just those who voted leave...
    And they want to achieve this by [checks notes] being overcautious with masks and lockdowns.
    Sneaky, remoaners. Veeery sneaky.
    I think this started as a comparison of behaviours. Not quite sure how we’ve reached remainers wanting wipe out leavers using Covid...
    It's all down to iSage controlling the media. Everything else flows logically from that.
    If that turns out not to be true, who knows what else we're wrong about? Heliocentricity, the atomic theory of matter, the Laffer curve... it's a frightening thought.
    No one is alleging that iSAGE control the media, it’s just that the media has them on speed dial...
  • darkage said:

    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.

    My father in law used the Caley Canal regularly to return to Lossiemouth from his fishing in Ireland and we have twice spent a week in a cabin cruiser sailing the whole length of the canal

    A day sail from Inverness should be most informative

    A link here

    https://www.jacobite.co.uk/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.

    There are lots of Nessy themed spots as I recall, but the 'best' place for sightings is Castle Urquhart
    I drove up the other side of the loch and stopped at "Lochness View":

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Lochness+View/@57.3237944,-4.427559,2973m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x488f13e20178670b:0x996126cfcd3d2df0!2sUrquhart+Castle!8m2!3d57.3241399!4d-4.4420012!3m4!1s0x488f13bb28ca7031:0xc744fdf046442a02!8m2!3d57.3239032!4d-4.4081666?hl=en

    I stood by the loch and there were no boats or anything about and no wind. Out of nowhere about four or five quite big waves suddenly appeared and broke on the shore. I can see why people would have been spooked by that body of water.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 732
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    The far-Right French firebrand tipped to become his country's new President has described the English as 'our greatest enemies for a thousand years' and attacked the D-Day landings.

    D Mail

    Oh dear. Zemmour is it? That's problematic for the British Right as they were rather warming to him over Frexit.
    It was "a liberation but also occupation and colonisation by the Americans". Trump-style rhetoric - sounds scandalous so gets coverage, but he'll point to the "liberation" to deny being pro-German.

    Some here also go on about the French being ancient enemies and seem to actively dislike them. It's a minority sport on both sides.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123489/French-far-right-candidate-Eric-Zemmour-declares-English-greatest-enemies-1-000-yrs.html
    He's not, objectively, wrong though is he? The French and the English have, over the past 1000 years, been each other's greatest enemies. Doesn't mean we can't get along in the present but our past has been, er, fractious.
    Hasn't it been over two hundred years since we fought the French?
    Mers-el-Kébir was 81 years ago.
    Can get a bit later than that. Operations Torch and Exporter, Ironclad and Stream Line Jane. That takes you to 1943. A gnat's whisker less than 80 years.
    My grandfather fought against the French in Syria in 1941.
    Mine fought alongside the French in 1915-1918 (well, on the Western Front in the UK army)! How things changed.
    Strange thing was, he always thought far more of the Germans than the French. Wouldn’t hear a word against Rommel or von Thoma. Enjoyed a good joke about the French.

    Mind you, he hated the Japanese. Complained even when they showed Japanese golfers at the US Open.
    Mine was in the RN - was of an age to be about to be sent out to the Pacific when the bombs fell. Didn't have a lot to say about the Germans but wouldn't hear anything against nuclear weapons in later life.

    Ended up being dragooned into the school twinning programme for lack of any other male teacher - never having shown any interest whatsoever before - and in the end went to France every year to see the friends he made there. For almost 45 years.

    Edit: he was a bit twitchy about the Japanese - evidently from what he heard in the mess deck. I never dared buy him any Japanese whisky (I usually got him some old reliable plus something new each birthday and Christmas).
    My Dad would never buy a Japanese car. He was responsible for buying his firms company cars, back in the 70s and 80s. He bought the cars from Arnold Clark, the man, not the company. At that time, Arnold Clark only has a few showrooms in the south side of Glasgow, and refused to have any franchises for Japanese cars. How times change!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460
    darkage said:

    Apologies to interrupt the discussion; I have some
    Scotland related travel questions. I am spending 3 days in inverness with my wife and son; we have a hire car. Son wants to see the Loch Ness monster. I wondered if anyone who is familiar with that part of the world has any advice/suggestions? Would be much appreciated. Cheers.

    I would advise you that your son will be disappointed.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460

    Cookie said:

    Trip into Manchester for lunch with daughters 1 and 2 today. The city was buzzing. Thousands of people out, engaged in what I can only assume was the very early stages of a massive night out. Virtually no masks in sight. We went in on the tram from Sale Water Park, which has already picked up traffic from Wythenshawe (bluntly, ex-council territory) - mask wearing less than 10%. As we progressed through Chorlton (Guardian and organic supermarket territory), mask wearing of new passengers well over 50%.

    We went to see our daughters in a dance and drama show this evening, very much Guardian and organic food territory (obvs - why would anyone live anywhere else?). We were told that mask wearing was optional - whereupon well over 90% of attendees put their masks on.
    Then all went to the pub or an eatery afterwards and took them off.
    Quite possibly. I came home and hung out the washing.
This discussion has been closed.