When the rules are the main event: Smarkets covid restrictions market – politicalbetting.com
When the rules are the main event: Smarkets covid restrictions market – politicalbetting.com
A few weeks ago I wrote about the Smarkets market on whether the government would reimpose covid restrictions before the new year. The market, put up shortly prior to the end of restrictions in July, is called ‘Any Covid restrictions to be re-introduced in England during 2021‘. The ‘subheading’ then reads ‘Will the government re-introduce any legally enforceable restrictions on social contact in England before the end of 2021?‘
Comments
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If working in a care home is social contact, what is an example of non-social contact?1
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FPT
That’s why I’m introducing her to cricket with a 20-20 game, and not a Test match.MikeSmithson said:
Let's hope she takes along a good bookSandpit said:Morning all. Congratulations to @isam on the new arrival!
One more sign of the sense of normality returning today - off to watch England v WIndies cricket later, in what will be a pretty packed and sold out stadium. Also my wife’s first live cricket match, so I will probably have some explaining to do!
Otherwise, she might go away with the impression that going to see the cricket means sitting down in the ground with a newspaper and an iPad, drinking beer and chatting to friends all day…1 -
While rule clarification from bookies is always welcome, this imo definitely stays into moving the goalposts territory.
And I agree punters should be allowed to void bets in such circumstances. But for an exchange this is more complicated as the counterparty probably wouldn't want to void their side. So Smarkets need a mechanism to take on the liability.2 -
Clearly we need further, better and more expensive lawyers for this complicated bit of interpretation. Retirement job for Lady Hale?0
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Good piece @Quincel, and good on OGH for publishing it.
Someone here noted the other day, that the government had already announced legislation for care home worker vaccinations before this market was put up. If that is indeed the case, there’s an argument that Smarkets have messed this one up and are better to void the market completely.2 -
Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
https://twitter.com/EcoSenseNow/status/14515975728464609282 -
Its a fair point on Smarkets clarification that visitors (as opposed to workers) must be vaccinated, though I wasn't aware of that part. Workers are clearly non-social.
However my main issue with this is that the rules were passed by Parliament in June and the market opened in July. But then this 'clarification' appeared in October. That is just not acceptable in my eyes, the rules existed before this market even opened.
The talk of the rules starting from November is a bit of a misnomer technically too, the rules started in July (following being passed by Parliament in June) but with a grace period that is about to end. Nothing new is being legally introduced in November - the rules were already the law before this market started.3 -
Agreed.Sandpit said:Good piece @Quincel, and good on OGH for publishing it.
Also, just got around to reading @Fishing ’s article from yesterday, and wanted to note my appreciation for that, too.
As far as the regulation market is concerned, I think many concluded at the time of the first article that it was a recipe for confusion.
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It was me who posted this. Great header Quincel.Sandpit said:Good piece @Quincel, and good on OGH for publishing it.
Someone here noted the other day, that the government had already announced legislation for care home worker vaccinations before this market was put up. If that is indeed the case, there’s an argument that Smarkets have messed this one up and are better to void the market completely.
Quincel states that the market was put up shortly prior to the end of restrictions in July. The more important thing is that I thought it was a little later than when the vaccine mandate legislation for care workers was passed, but I may be wrong.
In any case, the clarification in October created a new market in my mind. Prior punters were clearly taken by surprise. 1.46 was instantly cut to 1.09 on the announcement.
I agree that bets placed prior to the clarification should be voided.
If it was as obvious as Smarkets response to Quincel state - then why did they need to post the clarification in the first place?
Quincel says that he legislation covers visitors as well. I didn't realise this. So unvaccinated sons and daughters will be barred from seeing their parents (or at least restricted to outside only visits). My word.
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Greta will grow up - the ill mannered dyspeptic never will.BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
https://twitter.com/EcoSenseNow/status/14515975728464609280 -
Good piece. I like markets like this, and I like that smarkets are broadening the betting offering.
In this instance, I do agree with @Quincel (and I have an indirect bet on this market with DavidL), that I don't think vaccines to enter care homes ought to count... but having read their statement, I can sort of see why they have applied letter of the rules in the way.
I'm hoping to win my bet with DavidL cleanly though through a nice broad-based reintroduction of mask mandates.0 -
"Virtue-signalling little turds" ! !BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
https://twitter.com/EcoSenseNow/status/14515975728464609280 -
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!2 -
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.5 -
I seem to remember that some thoughtful person created a helpline for middle-aged men who are triggered by a teenage girl.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!0 -
Australian invective can be quite funny, but you need to think of it as primarily comedy rather than serious social commentary.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
The reasons that the likes of Greta gain unpopularity, is the same reasons as for example Marcus Rashford. They’re clearly front people for larger groups pushing an agenda, and they speak from positions of privilege while trying to enforce changed behaviours or increased costs of living on the rest of us.4 -
Yes, I should state that generally I think the team at Smarkets are doing a really good job. But I think they've messed up here, particularly given these care home rules predating the market (which I actually hadn't realised, and imagine they hadn't either).rkrkrk said:Good piece. I like markets like this, and I like that smarkets are broadening the betting offering.
In this instance, I do agree with @Quincel (and I have an indirect bet on this market with DavidL), that I don't think vaccines to enter care homes ought to count... but having read their statement, I can sort of see why they have applied letter of the rules in the way.
I'm hoping to win my bet with DavidL cleanly though through a nice broad-based reintroduction of mask mandates.
Re: Their statement, I must admit being a bit disappointed. It defends the rule clarification by saying 'Even if we were to ignore the market clarification [the bets would still lose]', in other words it boils down to 'The rule clarification didn't matter this time' - which doesn't seem to me to really defend their clarification at all!1 -
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.2 -
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.0 -
Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.0 -
Peston strikes again...
Joshua Blake
@JoshBiostats
We're pretty certain the daily case numbers are at best half of all infections but this is nothing to do with reinfections. The lack of understanding among some very influential political journalists is pretty concerning.
https://twitter.com/JoshBiostats/status/14518123240760524841 -
On those container port problems in the US…
…Twitter comes to the rescue.
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451673736877428742
Update: The city of LB just announced it has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations.
Thank you everybody who called the governor and the mayor to request. They got the message, you can stop now...
Full thread:
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
And no mention of driver shortages.1 -
Nick's paternal but ultimately forgiving disapproval act is highly distinctive, like an archdeacon who has found a choir boy masturbating in the organ loftBlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.3 -
Morning.
Congratulations to Mr and Mrs iSam on the arrival of their second son. Lovely news!
Remember when we were assured that as a sovereign nation we would be maintaining and enhancing our environmental standards?
Well, yesterday, 265 Tory MPs voted to allow water companies to dump raw untreated sewage into our rivers.
A few voted against permitting this disgusting practice.
You can see the list here - https://evolvepolitics.com/heres-a-list-of-every-mp-who-just-voted-to-allow-water-companies-to-continue-dumping-raw-sewage-in-our-rivers/.
Being green does not just mean not burning carbon. It also means having a care for the environment around us and the flora and fauna which depend on it not being turned into a cesspit.
Badly done.6 -
I hope I'm not the choir boy here!IshmaelZ said:
Nick's paternal but ultimately forgiving disapproval act is highly distinctive, like an archdeacon who has found a choir boy masturbating in the organ loftBlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.0 -
It’s a shame COVID passports in any setting weren’t excluded from this market.0
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Yes congratulations to Isam and his good lady on their happy news. Our best wishes you your family.Cyclefree said:Morning.
Congratulations to Mr and Mrs iSam on the arrival of their second son. Lovely news!
Remember when we were assured that as a sovereign nation we would be maintaining and enhancing our environmental standards?
Well, yesterday, 265 Tory MPs voted to allow water companies to dump raw untreated sewage into our rivers.
A few voted against permitting this disgusting practice.
You can see the list here - https://evolvepolitics.com/heres-a-list-of-every-mp-who-just-voted-to-allow-water-companies-to-continue-dumping-raw-sewage-in-our-rivers/.
Being green does not just mean not burning carbon. It also means having a care for the environment around us and the flora and fauna which depend on it not being turned into a cesspit.
Badly done.0 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58996017
COVID dog buyers pretend dogs are strays to offload them on to rescue homes.
Begs the question why the charities were not running humungous Are you sure you really want a dog? campaign throughout the COVID boom.0 -
Apart from a bung to Teesside doesn’t look like anything else for the North East. Nothing for our great city of Newcastle or other places like Sunderland.SandyRentool said:Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.0 -
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.1 -
The issue is remediation works. Which can't be done overnight.Cyclefree said:Morning.
Congratulations to Mr and Mrs iSam on the arrival of their second son. Lovely news!
Remember when we were assured that as a sovereign nation we would be maintaining and enhancing our environmental standards?
Well, yesterday, 265 Tory MPs voted to allow water companies to dump raw untreated sewage into our rivers.
A few voted against permitting this disgusting practice.
You can see the list here - https://evolvepolitics.com/heres-a-list-of-every-mp-who-just-voted-to-allow-water-companies-to-continue-dumping-raw-sewage-in-our-rivers/.
Being green does not just mean not burning carbon. It also means having a care for the environment around us and the flora and fauna which depend on it not being turned into a cesspit.
Badly done.
In London, many of those supporting this fought a long and bitter campaign to block the Thames Tideway project - which is to expand sewer capacity to deal with this issue.
They did achieve a massive delay in the project, so there's that.
Much as the idiots complaining about the Hammersmith bridge often fight intensely against all of the options, temporary and permanent.
Or the people who fight bitterly to prevent new reservoirs being built, then complain about hosepipe bans.
Personally I would incorporate them into the.... concrete.... solutions to the various national infrastructure problems. But that's me being evil again....
EDIT: What I would have done is to present a bill ordering immediate start of remediation works. With no planning hold ups - incorporate full planning permission override into the bill. Then enjoy the screaming.1 -
I'm hoping that these are just some of the schemes being funded. Although a project to make it easier to get away from Middlesbrough is no bad thing.Taz said:
Apart from a bung to Teesside doesn’t look like anything else for the North East. Nothing for our great city of Newcastle or other places like Sunderland.SandyRentool said:Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.
Meanwhile I have found a partial answer to my question:
"Plans to cap the cost of a day's bus travel in West Yorkshire and create a greener bus fleet have been approved by the county's combined authority.
If given the final go-ahead, the Bus Service Improvement Plan would see the daily cost of travelling on buses run by different firms limited to £5.50.
West Yorkshire Combined Authority is bidding for a share of a national £3bn bus strategy fund."
So WYCA have to hold out the begging bowl and hope it gets funded.0 -
I don't know how I am going to break this to your poor parents, Livermore.BlancheLivermore said:
I hope I'm not the choir boy here!IshmaelZ said:
Nick's paternal but ultimately forgiving disapproval act is highly distinctive, like an archdeacon who has found a choir boy masturbating in the organ loftBlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.1 -
Which way did Newcastle & Sunderland vote at the GE? Which way did Teeside vote?Taz said:
Apart from a bung to Teesside doesn’t look like anything else for the North East. Nothing for our great city of Newcastle or other places like Sunderland.SandyRentool said:Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.
This is what we have come to.1 -
Ha, we’ve had 20 months of some very influential political journalists showing a lack of understanding. It’s been concerning for at least 19 months!rottenborough said:Peston strikes again...
Joshua Blake
@JoshBiostats
We're pretty certain the daily case numbers are at best half of all infections but this is nothing to do with reinfections. The lack of understanding among some very influential political journalists is pretty concerning.
https://twitter.com/JoshBiostats/status/14518123240760524840 -
So they can pile up containers at the port? Which can't be moved due to.... something?Nigelb said:On those container port problems in the US…
…Twitter comes to the rescue.
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451673736877428742
Update: The city of LB just announced it has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations.
Thank you everybody who called the governor and the mayor to request. They got the message, you can stop now...
Full thread:
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
And no mention of driver shortages.0 -
Well, where else are you supposed to masturbate? You can’t masturbate without an organ.IshmaelZ said:
Nick's paternal but ultimately forgiving disapproval act is highly distinctive, like an archdeacon who has found a choir boy masturbating in the organ loftBlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.3 -
There's alsoSandyRentool said:Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.
Improving the A61 between Wakefield and Leeds for buses, cyclists and pedestrians, and giving buses greater priority in Wakefield
But it does seem a little for a lot of money.
Further south Barnsley is to get a 'Dutch style' roundabout.
To go with its current plan to be remodelled with a Peak District theme.
I wonder if it will amount to as much as the previous idea to reinvent Barnsley as a 'Tuscan hill village'.0 -
A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...1 -
Hand turbulence in the organ loft is some euphemism!ydoethur said:
Well, where else are you supposed to masturbate? You can’t masturbate without an organ.IshmaelZ said:
Nick's paternal but ultimately forgiving disapproval act is highly distinctive, like an archdeacon who has found a choir boy masturbating in the organ loftBlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.1 -
The interesting bit is how fact checking such "top journalists" is claimed to be "an attack on the press"Sandpit said:
Ha, we’ve had 20 months of some very influential political journalists showing a lack of understanding. It’s been concerning for at least 19 months!rottenborough said:Peston strikes again...
Joshua Blake
@JoshBiostats
We're pretty certain the daily case numbers are at best half of all infections but this is nothing to do with reinfections. The lack of understanding among some very influential political journalists is pretty concerning.
https://twitter.com/JoshBiostats/status/1451812324076052484
In this case, the ONS (and other surveys) provide clear, unambiguous, non-partisan data. They tell us, with a delay of a few weeks, what the infection rates were at a given time, complete with error bars. Real science at work.
The problem for Peston & Co. is that they are used to working in politics and economics - you can take an idea, wrap a story around it and sound like a sage.
If you are wrong... well, in politics and economics it is fairly unusual to hit Absolute Truth.2 -
Lol. It's still clickbait!BlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.1 -
That was a very good thread. It’s not difficult to identify the blockage in the system, but as soon as you do, you need to move mountains to unblock it.Nigelb said:On those container port problems in the US…
…Twitter comes to the rescue.
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451673736877428742
Update: The city of LB just announced it has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations.
Thank you everybody who called the governor and the mayor to request. They got the message, you can stop now...
Full thread:
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
And no mention of driver shortages.
In this case it was that the port couldn’t accept empties because there was no space, and there were planning rules that prevented hauliers from stacking them in their own yards - so they were stuck on trucks, which then. Couldn’t collect goods from the port. Suspending the local planning rules allows hauliers to offload their empties and start to clear the backlog from the port itself.0 -
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...0 -
Morning all, thanks @Quincel, interesting situation and here's my take on it:
The 're-introduction' point is a red herring. That has a reasonable general as opposed to specific interpretation. So it's ok to settle the market as Yes for a rule which is new and wasn't seen during previous Covid restrictions. Eg the Not Happening Event of vaxports for nightclubs would, if I'm wrong and it were to happen, rightly settle as Yes.
But I would feel VERY hard done by if I'd backed No and the sole instance of 'vaxports for care home workers' settled it for Yes. The market sub-heading clearly says 'social contact' and this isn't social contact. It's professional contact - ie specifically NOT social contact. Why put the word 'social' in there unless to exclude contact which is non-social? Total balls and just plain wrong. I'd fight this one all the way to the House of Lords if necessary.
However, if the rule brought in for care homes is wider and also covers friends & family visiting residents, then this is fair dues. That's a restriction on social contact. That should settle as Yes. No argument whatsoever there.1 -
Presumably Smarkets is a portmanteau of smart and markets, although in this case they seem to have left their customers smarting. If Shadsy would like a simple novelty bet without the benefit of expensive legal advice, how about Will a Cambridge graduate be appointed PM before the centenary of Baldwin's resignation on 28 May 2037?
Noes like me would have to wait 16 years for a final payout while Ayes may hope for a faster return, but there'd be plenty of trading opportunities and price volatility along the way as stars rise and fall. With the cautionary tale of Lord Archer in mind, PGCE wouldn't count.0 -
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.0 -
Read the full thread.Malmesbury said:
So they can pile up containers at the port? Which can't be moved due to.... something?Nigelb said:On those container port problems in the US…
…Twitter comes to the rescue.
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451673736877428742
Update: The city of LB just announced it has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations.
Thank you everybody who called the governor and the mayor to request. They got the message, you can stop now...
Full thread:
https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
And no mention of driver shortages.
It provides a detailed analysis.0 -
I do feel that StarSports have done covid rules markets rather better in this case, by having separate markets for each restriction. I see what Smarkets were going for here but I think they've mis-stepped.Alphabet_Soup said:Presumably Smarkets is a portmanteau of smart and markets, although in this case they seem to have left their customers smarting. If Shadsy would like a simple novelty bet without the benefit of expensive legal advice, how about Will a Cambridge graduate be appointed PM before the centenary of Baldwin's resignation on 28 May 2037?
Noes like me would have to wait 16 years for a final payout while Ayes may hope for a faster return, but there'd be plenty of trading opportunities and price volatility along the way as stars rise and fall. With the cautionary tale of Lord Archer in mind, PGCE wouldn't count.0 -
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...0 -
Quite interesting etymology article here
@AntigoneJournal
4m
"Through ingenious comparative work, scholars have reconstructed in great detail features of the Proto-Indo-European language, the language from which all Indo-European languages descend, despite the fact that no written evidence of it survives."
https://antigonejournal.com/2021/07/what-did-ancient-languages-sound-like/0 -
That's an interesting point. I've not heard that Greta is especially privileged, apart from the advantage of living in a rich country, but I see what you mean in general. But if you're rich, you can't win, can you? If you spend your money on a mansion and a yacht, people are jealous. If you give it away like Bill Gates, you're attacked for virtue-signalling. If you campaign to help poorer people you're seen as a front man. I do think that some of the resentment is that some people don't actually want to change anything, and are annoyed by someone urging change on them - or the Government.Sandpit said:
Australian invective can be quite funny, but you need to think of it as primarily comedy rather than serious social commentary.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
The reasons that the likes of Greta gain unpopularity, is the same reasons as for example Marcus Rashford. They’re clearly front people for larger groups pushing an agenda, and they speak from positions of privilege while trying to enforce changed behaviours or increased costs of living on the rest of us.5 -
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...0 -
Even then not if the legislation was already passed prior to the market launch. If so then Smarkets is running a false market.kinabalu said:Morning all, thanks @Quincel, interesting situation and here's my take on it:
The 're-introduction' point is a red herring. That has a reasonable general as opposed to specific interpretation. So it's ok to settle the market as Yes for a rule which is new and wasn't seen during previous Covid restrictions. Eg the Not Happening Event of vaxports for nightclubs would, if I'm wrong and it were to happen, rightly settle as Yes.
But I would feel VERY hard done by if I'd backed No and the sole instance of 'vaxports for care home workers' settled it for Yes. The market sub-heading clearly says 'social contact' and this isn't social contact. It's professional contact - ie specifically NOT social contact. Why put the word 'social' in there unless to exclude contact which is non-social? Total balls and just plain wrong. I'd fight this one all the way to the House of Lords if necessary.
However, if the rule brought in for care homes is wider and also covers friends & family visiting residents, then this is fair dues. That's a restriction on social contact. That should settle as Yes. No argument whatsoever there.1 -
Didn't the cheeky chappy inherit Skyfall?Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...
Once it got blown up it is a development hopportunity. With a links golf course.
On the expenses claims, perhaps he was spying on Mons. Chirac? Or collects points?1 -
1 We never see him off duty, so haven't much of a clue how he lives on his own money. He bought the Bentley as a write off and had it restoredJohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...
2 He is the only child of deceased parents who could afford Eton (and fettes after he was expelled).1 -
Everyone is doing that with Bus Service Improvement Plans (BSIPs). Every authority has submitted a BSIP, following government guidance on BSIPs, and so everyone's approach is bidding for a share of a national £3bn bus strategy. In all cases, I'd expect it to go towards making buses cheaper, more frequent, some bus priority, something on quality of fleet, something on passenger information... because that's what the guidance says. Everyone will get something, no one will get everything they bid for. I'd expect WYCA would get in the high tens of millions for this.SandyRentool said:
I'm hoping that these are just some of the schemes being funded. Although a project to make it easier to get away from Middlesbrough is no bad thing.Taz said:
Apart from a bung to Teesside doesn’t look like anything else for the North East. Nothing for our great city of Newcastle or other places like Sunderland.SandyRentool said:Rishi opens his wallet:
'West Yorkshire (£830m): Extending the West Bradford-Cycle Superhighway and installing electric vehicle charging stations in Kirklees neighbourhoods'
That's a lot of money for a cycle path and some plug sockets. And for bus and train users? We don't have tram users since we don't have any trams.
Meanwhile I have found a partial answer to my question:
"Plans to cap the cost of a day's bus travel in West Yorkshire and create a greener bus fleet have been approved by the county's combined authority.
If given the final go-ahead, the Bus Service Improvement Plan would see the daily cost of travelling on buses run by different firms limited to £5.50.
West Yorkshire Combined Authority is bidding for a share of a national £3bn bus strategy fund."
So WYCA have to hold out the begging bowl and hope it gets funded.0 -
The PB blimps evidently found the bait delicious.Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.0 -
Which would you prefer - a £50k salary with a £10m expense account, or the other way round?Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...1 -
Embarrassing because he points out some inconvenient truths ?Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.
Without watching it again didn't he make points about aircon usage and travel by cars.
A more UK or US equivalent could also mention the amount of air travel the modern lifestyle includes.1 -
That’s when he’s working. Off duty he’s down the Dog and Duck for a couple of pints, then home to a two bed semi via the chippy...Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...1 -
Isn’t living beyond your means quintessentially British, though ?Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...0 -
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.NickPalmer said:
That's an interesting point. I've not heard that Greta is especially privileged, apart from the advantage of living in a rich country, but I see what you mean in general. But if you're rich, you can't win, can you? If you spend your money on a mansion and a yacht, people are jealous. If you give it away like Bill Gates, you're attacked for virtue-signalling. If you campaign to help poorer people you're seen as a front man. I do think that some of the resentment is that some people don't actually want to change anything, and are annoyed by someone urging change on them - or the Government.Sandpit said:
Australian invective can be quite funny, but you need to think of it as primarily comedy rather than serious social commentary.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
The reasons that the likes of Greta gain unpopularity, is the same reasons as for example Marcus Rashford. They’re clearly front people for larger groups pushing an agenda, and they speak from positions of privilege while trying to enforce changed behaviours or increased costs of living on the rest of us.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.0 -
PMIs for the Eurozone, USA and UK:
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/291a6f7539534735b69350b6e4e0f921
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/318d8368fea74e588e80760a5eb9c21f
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/6c4111f9b7054ecba6a8e85eedb9ebf7
Almost identical with comments about capacity constraints, supplier issues and rising costs but also rising orders and employment.1 -
Well, if you put it like that…Alphabet_Soup said:
Which would you prefer - a £50k salary with a £10m expense account, or the other way round?Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...
0 -
It's quite funny in a Les Patterson sort of way but spoilt by his inclusion of 'supporting immigration' which rather gives the game away. Where exactly are the immigrants supposed to disappear to?BlancheLivermore said:
That's a strong hypothetical argument against a point that isn't made in the video you refuse to watch.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
Don't worry; your virtue is shining brightly through it.1 -
There’s a massive boom coming as we exit the pandemic, and the constraints on it are going to be hi-tech manufacturing (eg. computer chips) and logistics.another_richard said:PMIs for the Eurozone, USA and UK:
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/291a6f7539534735b69350b6e4e0f921
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/318d8368fea74e588e80760a5eb9c21f
https://www.markiteconomics.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/6c4111f9b7054ecba6a8e85eedb9ebf7
Almost identical with comments about capacity constraints, supplier issues and rising costs but also rising orders and employment.0 -
If he feels so strongly about a consumerist lifestyle then surely he ought to be agreeing with their sentiments while fulminating about their behaviour ?another_richard said:
Embarrassing because he points out some inconvenient truths ?Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.
Without watching it again didn't he make points about aircon usage and travel by cars.
A more UK or US equivalent could also mention the amount of air travel the modern lifestyle includes.
No, it's just ignorant dyspepsia.1 -
Maybe this is why he changes his identity so often? Avoiding debts.Nigelb said:
Isn’t living beyond your means quintessentially British, though ?Sandpit said:
Good point. The salary for an actual agent tops out around £50k - they can barely afford a 1-bed in London these days, yet Bond always seems to find himself in the most expensive hotel in town, drinking cocktails in the bar before heading off to the casino in a sports car.JohnLilburne said:
I always wondered how he managed to live the way he does on a Civil Service salary. And the expenses claims...Malmesbury said:
To be fair, Bond does go for high end hotels, with top notch bathroom facilities - and seems to like showers and changing clothes quite a bit.Nigelb said:A timely academic paper.
No time to die: An in-depth analysis of James Bond's exposure to infectious agents
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893921002167
… Global travelers, whether tourists or secret agents, are exposed to a smörgåsbord of infectious agents. We hypothesized that agents pre-occupied with espionage and counterterrorism may, at their peril, fail to correctly prioritize travel medicine. To examine our hypothesis, we examined adherence to international travel advice during the 86 international journeys that James Bond was observed to undertake in feature films spanning 1962–2021. Scrutinizing these missions involved ∼3113 min of evening hours per author that could easily have been spent on more pressing societal issues. We uncovered above-average sexual activity, often without sufficient time for an exchange of sexual history, with a remarkably high mortality among Bond's sexual partners (27.1; 95% confidence interval 16.4–40.3). Given how inopportune a bout of diarrhea would be in the midst of world-saving action, it is striking that Bond is seen washing his hands on only two occasions, despite numerous exposures to foodborne pathogens...2 -
Grumpy old man syndrome definitely applies here. People like a moan, and everyone, literally everyone, will have something that pisses someone else off, mostly irrationally. Easier than attacking the arguments.NickPalmer said:
That's an interesting point. I've not heard that Greta is especially privileged, apart from the advantage of living in a rich country, but I see what you mean in general. But if you're rich, you can't win, can you? If you spend your money on a mansion and a yacht, people are jealous. If you give it away like Bill Gates, you're attacked for virtue-signalling. If you campaign to help poorer people you're seen as a front man. I do think that some of the resentment is that some people don't actually want to change anything, and are annoyed by someone urging change on them - or the Government.Sandpit said:
Australian invective can be quite funny, but you need to think of it as primarily comedy rather than serious social commentary.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
The reasons that the likes of Greta gain unpopularity, is the same reasons as for example Marcus Rashford. They’re clearly front people for larger groups pushing an agenda, and they speak from positions of privilege while trying to enforce changed behaviours or increased costs of living on the rest of us.0 -
I noticed @AlistairM 's prediction on the previous thread, and the factor he was least confident about (schoolkids).
As it happens, I'd been looking at this. Taking the ONS prevalence counts amongst Yr7-15, assuming infection lasts for an average of 11.5 days (an assumption taken from comparing their prevalence estimates with their incidence estimates; it makes the numbers fit best and it matches reported data), counting from late August to ensure minimal shift in their own processes and maximum comparability, and using ratio of hospitalisations prior to that point (ie x hospitalisations came from y infections between August and December; assume the ratio was constant before and the proportion of infections was constant; cross-checking with the ratio of Age 6-17 hospitalisations to infections available after October)...
Further assuming that prior infection has an effective efficacy of 80% (from the ONS reinfection surveys), so some of the infections are in the previously infected (backed up by anecdotal evidence from people I've spoken with)
I get infections looking like this since the start of August in that age group:
(Central prediction and 95% ranges high and low, with dotted lines as a projection from the latest. Obviously, the rate will bend down as it approaches 100%, but this gives an indication).
Then add vaccinations. Too slow so far, but assuming those currently infected do not receive doses and doses are randomly spread between the previously infected and the not-yet-infected, and taking doses from 2 weeks prior as being "active," you get the rise of "non-immune-naive" looking like this:
Now, neither infection nor vaccination provide 100% immunity, but if you assume 80% or so from either, and 90%+ from either hybrid immunity or the reinfected-and-recovered, when the bar hits around 100%, you should have herd immunity in that group.
This does, of course, assume infections proceed as before even over half-term, but I think 2 weeks looks promising for this "engine room" to finally stall for good.
0 -
Mr. Sandpit, I'm excited to discover whether the PS5 becomes actually possible to buy before the PS6 is released.
*sighs*1 -
Oh I'm sure he lives it up and that his own upbringing wasn't something out of an Australian Hovis advert.Nigelb said:
If he feels so strongly about a consumerist lifestyle then surely he ought to be agreeing with their sentiments while fulminating about their behaviour ?another_richard said:
Embarrassing because he points out some inconvenient truths ?Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.
Without watching it again didn't he make points about aircon usage and travel by cars.
A more UK or US equivalent could also mention the amount of air travel the modern lifestyle includes.
No, it's just ignorant dyspepsia.
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.0 -
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.2 -
Clarkson back to being a Remoaner quisling
https://twitter.com/britishsave/status/1451814958979760133?s=210 -
** Our Peterborough diary in the Telegraph this weekend **Theuniondivvie said:Clarkson back to being a Remoaner quisling
https://twitter.com/britishsave/status/1451814958979760133?s=21
Meet the Remoaners taking over the taxpayer-funded 'Festival of Brexit'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/22/meet-remoaners-taking-taxpayer-funded-festival-brexit/0 -
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.6 -
A lifestyle they will struggle to maintain after their rentier parents and grandparents have extorted sufficient rents and taxes from them.another_richard said:
Oh I'm sure he lives it up and that his own upbringing wasn't something out of an Australian Hovis advert.Nigelb said:
If he feels so strongly about a consumerist lifestyle then surely he ought to be agreeing with their sentiments while fulminating about their behaviour ?another_richard said:
Embarrassing because he points out some inconvenient truths ?Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.
Without watching it again didn't he make points about aircon usage and travel by cars.
A more UK or US equivalent could also mention the amount of air travel the modern lifestyle includes.
No, it's just ignorant dyspepsia.
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.0 -
That's a fair summary Nick.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Though in recent weeks we've had people raging at the possibility of higher pay for abattoir workers because it might lead to higher meat prices.
People who would, I suspect, be happy for meat prices to rise for environmental or animal welfare reasons.1 -
What do you mean? They could all drive HGVs for £100k a year. I read it on PB.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.1 -
Not to mention the curse of social media, having your teenage life documented hour by hour for posterity. I can't think of anything worse and sadly expect to see their mental health continue to suffer.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.1 -
Under Dura's tutelage?Mexicanpete said:
What do you mean? They could all drive HGVs for £100k a year. I read it on PB.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.
0 -
Indeed.noneoftheabove said:
A lifestyle they will struggle to maintain after their rentier parents and grandparents have extorted sufficient rents and taxes from them.another_richard said:
Oh I'm sure he lives it up and that his own upbringing wasn't something out of an Australian Hovis advert.Nigelb said:
If he feels so strongly about a consumerist lifestyle then surely he ought to be agreeing with their sentiments while fulminating about their behaviour ?another_richard said:
Embarrassing because he points out some inconvenient truths ?Nigelb said:
It does - and your response is any event directed at their parents.another_richard said:
It doesn't.Nigelb said:
Nick’s comment still applies.another_richard said:
But he wasn't having a go at a teenager, Greta.NickPalmer said:
Haven't followed the link as I'm immune to Blimpish clickbait. But it's interesting what hostility Greta arouses. Nearly everyone agrees she's got a point, though we can debate how far we need to go to turn the ship round before it hits the rocks. Instead of discussing that, let's have a go at a teenager...BlancheLivermore said:Watching this makes me feel pity for Greta. Who could let this happen to a little girl?
Must say, I do quite like the Australian style points based response to the "selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds"
Patrick Moore
@EcoSenseNow
Watch as Sky News Australia rips a new one for Greta. This would never happen in Canada, USA, or Europe. Three Cheers!
He was having a go at teenagers, Australian teenagers.
Modern western middle class teenagers have a very indulged and pampered lifestyle and most will struggle to maintain that when they have to fund it themselves.
Its not really their fault but rather that of their parents, who would be better advised saving money for their kids rather than spending so much on them.
As far as Australia’s CO2 output is concerned, this has little or nothing to do with teenagers and their mobile phone usage - indeed there is already one state (Tasmania) with 100% renewable electricity.
Being one of the world’s largest coal producers is rather more germane.
It is blimpish clickbait par excellence, and frankly embarrassing to watch.
Without watching it again didn't he make points about aircon usage and travel by cars.
A more UK or US equivalent could also mention the amount of air travel the modern lifestyle includes.
No, it's just ignorant dyspepsia.
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.
Their parents and grandparents generations are indulging them at the wrong time and will exploit them at the wrong time.
The younger generation are having their current expectations raised and their future means reduced.0 -
He’s been a very strident Remainer since Day One, as I understand it. He supports a federal Europe I think.Theuniondivvie said:Clarkson back to being a Remoaner quisling
https://twitter.com/britishsave/status/1451814958979760133?s=210 -
Well drivers would be doubly productive at DA's pace, so why not?geoffw said:
Under Dura's tutelage?Mexicanpete said:
What do you mean? They could all drive HGVs for £100k a year. I read it on PB.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.0 -
Yes, there’s an issue with many in the environmental movement being barely-disguised socialists, which I’m sure you’re happy with but many of us aren’t.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Those on the centre-right see improving technology as the answer, rather than higher taxes and increased state control, and will rally against those who see only increases in the cost of living as proposals put forward.
There’s also the hypocracy angle, with many of the socialist green advocates living very middle-class lifestyles, as we have seen with the road-closing protestors in recent weeks. They appear to have litttle intention to change their own behaviour, in the same way as they expect everyone else to do so. To be flippant, it won’t be long before someone writes a lengthy opinion piece in the Guardian, celebrating the fact that there’s now a much nicer crowd than there used to be on the Ryanair to Florence.1 -
This will be Greta after COP26
2 -
Maybe, but don't forget they also have the huge, huge privilege of approaching adulthood in a world-beating, global Britain led by that role model of decency and integrity for the ages, Boris Johnson. I think I've got that right.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.8 -
He always was.Theuniondivvie said:Clarkson back to being a Remoaner quisling
https://twitter.com/britishsave/status/1451814958979760133?s=210 -
Trying to get some funding for your home town?Northern_Al said:
Maybe, but don't forget they also have the huge, huge privilege of approaching adulthood in a world-beating, global Britain led by that role model of decency and integrity for the ages, Boris Johnson. I think I've got that right.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.2 -
My pedagogy is limited to French, Russian and being vile to tories.geoffw said:
Under Dura's tutelage?Mexicanpete said:
What do you mean? They could all drive HGVs for £100k a year. I read it on PB.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.
I do like the optimism, energy, lack of cynicism and slang rich manias of teenagers. They also seem way more civilised and decorous than I was at that age.5 -
Have we? I don't recall anyone objecting to higher pay for meat processing workers.another_richard said:
That's a fair summary Nick.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Though in recent weeks we've had people raging at the possibility of higher pay for abattoir workers because it might lead to higher meat prices.
People who would, I suspect, be happy for meat prices to rise for environmental or animal welfare reasons.2 -
I'm sorry, but if you think us Guardian readers would ever use Ryanair, you're sadly misguided. We don't even know where Stansted is.Sandpit said:
Yes, there’s an issue with many in the environmental movement being barely-disguised socialists, which I’m sure you’re happy with but many of us aren’t.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Those on the centre-right see improving technology as the answer, rather than higher taxes and increased state control, and will rally against those who see only increases in the cost of living as proposals put forward.
There’s also the hypocracy angle, with many of the socialist green advocates living very middle-class lifestyles, as we have seen with the road-closing protestors in recent weeks. They appear to have litttle intention to change their own behaviour, in the same way as they expect everyone else to do so. To be flippant, it won’t be long before someone writes a lengthy opinion piece in the Guardian, celebrating the fact that there’s now a much nicer crowd than there used to be on the Ryanair to Florence.1 -
With the exception of ski trips, quite handy to get to the mountains.Northern_Al said:
I'm sorry, but if you think us Guardian readers would ever use Ryanair, you're sadly misguided. We don't even know where Stansted is.Sandpit said:
Yes, there’s an issue with many in the environmental movement being barely-disguised socialists, which I’m sure you’re happy with but many of us aren’t.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Those on the centre-right see improving technology as the answer, rather than higher taxes and increased state control, and will rally against those who see only increases in the cost of living as proposals put forward.
There’s also the hypocracy angle, with many of the socialist green advocates living very middle-class lifestyles, as we have seen with the road-closing protestors in recent weeks. They appear to have litttle intention to change their own behaviour, in the same way as they expect everyone else to do so. To be flippant, it won’t be long before someone writes a lengthy opinion piece in the Guardian, celebrating the fact that there’s now a much nicer crowd than there used to be on the Ryanair to Florence.1 -
I thought being vile to tories was innate, not something that needs to be taught.Dura_Ace said:
My pedagogy is limited to French, Russian and being vile to tories.geoffw said:
Under Dura's tutelage?Mexicanpete said:
What do you mean? They could all drive HGVs for £100k a year. I read it on PB.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.
I do like the optimism, energy, lack of cynicism and slang rich manias of teenagers. They also seem way more civilised and decorous than I was at that age.
0 -
I had no idea you could ski in the mountains by Luton...noneoftheabove said:
With the exception of ski trips, quite handy to get to the mountains.Northern_Al said:
I'm sorry, but if you think us Guardian readers would ever use Ryanair, you're sadly misguided. We don't even know where Stansted is.Sandpit said:
Yes, there’s an issue with many in the environmental movement being barely-disguised socialists, which I’m sure you’re happy with but many of us aren’t.NickPalmer said:
Yes, agreed, except for people who combine a green agenda with a redistributive agenda, which is (even if completely thought out) a complex argument to put across.Sandpit said:
It’s difficult, but necessary for those wanting change to bring along the general public with them.
As an example, we know that prettty much all of the delegates to the COP26 conference are going to turn up on private or government planes, then tell everyone how we all need to do less flying, swap our cars for electric ones and replace boilers with heat sinks at a cost of thousands - as China and Russia don’t even bother to show up, and the USA and India won’t implement an agreement to any meaningful degree.
The problem is, that for a huge number of people in the country, the cost of transport and energy are significant. Millions of people use old cars to get to minimum-wage jobs working antisocial hours. People advocating petrol being £3 a litre and petrol cars being banned don’t appear to have any understanding of the impact of those policies on the working classes.
I have the same problem in my day job. There isn't much dispute that factory farming produces cheap meat and lots of suffering and environmental damage. If we just argue against it on the grounds of the damage, it runs into the perfectly legitimate "but what about the impact on poorer people?" argument. As a non-political charity, we can't say "so combine it with higher universal credit and a wealth tax", so we argue that the answer is to tax meat to reflect the indirect costs but ring-fence the proceeds to subsidise healthy non-meat alternatives and high-welfare meat, so that people on low incomes have healthy affordable options with few downsides. But say the words "meat tax" and people just switch off before you finish the sentence.
That's why Henry Dimbleby's National Food strategy advocates a 30% reduction in meat consumption over 10 years (on sustainability grounds as well as welfare) but explicitly shies away from a meat tax, instead favouring vague things like higher procurement standards, which are a Good Thing but (a) probably won't achieve the 30% cut and (b) also have indirect effects, as it's school and hospital budgets you're hitting.
It's tricky, but of course unhelpful when people like Patrick Moore just throw out random sneers.
Those on the centre-right see improving technology as the answer, rather than higher taxes and increased state control, and will rally against those who see only increases in the cost of living as proposals put forward.
There’s also the hypocracy angle, with many of the socialist green advocates living very middle-class lifestyles, as we have seen with the road-closing protestors in recent weeks. They appear to have litttle intention to change their own behaviour, in the same way as they expect everyone else to do so. To be flippant, it won’t be long before someone writes a lengthy opinion piece in the Guardian, celebrating the fact that there’s now a much nicer crowd than there used to be on the Ryanair to Florence.0 -
Some of us grew up under the shadow of imminent nuclear destruction. Year in, year out, there's always something to worry about.Northern_Al said:
Maybe, but don't forget they also have the huge, huge privilege of approaching adulthood in a world-beating, global Britain led by that role model of decency and integrity for the ages, Boris Johnson. I think I've got that right.Dura_Ace said:
I tutor (almost exclusively middle class) teenagers and I feel like they have significantly worse prospects than the generation that preceded them. They are going to have shitloads of student debt, a hyper inflated housing market, the curse of precarcity in the workplace, evironmental ruin and Brexit to deal with.another_richard said:
But so what - few of us fully match our deeds to our thoughts - and the fundamental point remains that the modern middle class teenager has a pampered, privileged lifestyle, A lifestyle, at least in the UK, they will struggle to maintain when they have to fund it themselves.0 -
Do Britons want to see the return of COVID-19 restrictions?
Compulsory face masks in shops/on public transport: 76%
Govt advice to work from home where possible: 69%
Vaccine passports for large events: 69%
Pubs/restaurants closed: 22%
Schools closed: 19%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1451830429951086592?s=200
