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The big speech reaction – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    Selebian said:

    Yep. Particularly in smaller employers who might not have come across it and understand it as a refusal to reference.

    I'll be letting my students know I can't give them a useful reference and hope they have other options
    Medical references have shifted similarly, to the point of being useless and are only looked at after interview. I think this is in the interest of fairness and prevent patronage. It had the opposite effect though in that departments are reluctant to make permanent appointments of people they don't know. At best the unknown candidates get locums or 1 year contracts.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't see any reason why the age profile of deaths within 1,000,000 double vaxxed would be particularly different to 1,000,000 unvaccinated ?
    Just at a much lower level, it could well be slightly older if anything - remember vaccines work by stimulating the bodies' own immune system which gets worse as you get older.
    Surely the average age of death among the double jabbed is a fair bit older. The reason for the skew to the younger ages is that vaccine take up declines down the ages.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    Leon said:

    It's not condescending at all, I actually find it quite delightful when young women use this long word, bothering their pretty little heads with all those syllables. It's sexy
    I was going to write it that way. Serves me right leaving you a graceful out. Live and learn. 🙂
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    Some more

    "I think that between France and Africa, it must be a love story. Our country has been present on the continent both through triangular trade, conflicts from the early 19th century and then colonial wars."

    The minds considers boggling before accepting how utterly inadequate a response that would be.

    That said this story is a year old, any reason why it has come to life again?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322
    Foxy said:

    Medical references have shifted similarly, to the point of being useless and are only looked at after interview. I think this is in the interest of fairness and prevent patronage. It had the opposite effect though in that departments are reluctant to make permanent appointments of people they don't know. At best the unknown candidates get locums or 1 year contracts.
    Classic unintended consequences.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    HYUFD said:

    Legally and constitutionally it would not matter if the SNP got 100% of the vote at a Holyrood election or 0% is my point, Westminster could still refuse an indyref2 and refuse to implement the result of any indyref2 held without its consent.

    Practically and politically however the fact the SNP and Greens got less than 50% in May rather than 60%+ simply makes it easier for this Tory UK government to refuse indyref2 as it will. That is all
    I’m Hyufd. I’m not 11 but I am incorrigible.

    With apologies to Kurt from The Sound of Music.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    Pulpstar said:

    The day the UK PM (As is his legal right*) denies a request from the Scottish FM elected on a manifesto to ask the question of independence is the day Scotland exists not in a union with, but as a colony of England.
    No. If we were going to make Scotland a colony we would also expel all Scottish MPs from Westminster and scrap Holyrood and impose direct rule over Scotland by the UK government
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Farooq said:

    This is a legal exaggeration, but a political truth.
    It is neither. It is political, legal and constitutional nonsense.

    Scotland entered a consensual union with England, where it was agreed that ultimate political power, and the sovereignty of the united British people, would be expressed at Westminster - where the Scots would be equally represented by their elected MPs, just like the English, Welsh and so forth

    Have the Scots MPs been kicked out of Westminster? Is Scotland governed as a colony, with no democratic say in the British parliament in London, as, say India was, or Nigeria? Or the Solomon Islands?

    No, the Scots MPs are still there, representing Scots.

    If the question of a new Scottish referendum arises, it must be put to the House of Commons, and all the MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can decide, as one sovereign nation, and one democracy. Then the PM can deliver their democratic verdict to Holyrood

    If the ruling party in Holyrood wants another plebiscite, it has to persuade all the British people (including Scots) as represented by their MPs at Westminster. Which is only fair, as a secession would seriously affect all Britons.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296

    Lol. A Tory Brexiteer and anti-Woke activist? I'd last 5 minutes mate.

    Weirdly, I consider this blog a private club of 30-40 like-minded obsessives, even though I know it's ultimately very public.
    Well your bizarre world view aside you come over as a decent, serious minded bloke, so I think you fret too much about this sort of thing. I had to hide my politics for most of my career. Or rather that was line of least resistance.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    I see the Italian Milan fans are happy to boo one of their own.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    Leon said:

    It is neither. It is political, legal and constitutional nonsense.

    Scotland entered a consensual union with England, where it was agreed that ultimate political power, and the sovereignty of the united British people, would be expressed at Westminster - where the Scots would be equally represented by their elected MPs, just like the English, Welsh and so forth

    Have the Scots MPs been kicked out of Westminster? Is Scotland governed as a colony, with no democratic say in the British parliament in London, as, say India was, or Nigeria? Or the Solomon Islands?

    No, the Scots MPs are still there, representing Scots.

    If the question of a new Scottish referendum arises, it must be put to the House of Commons, and all the MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can decide, as one sovereign nation, and one democracy. Then the PM can deliver their democratic verdict to Holyrood

    If the ruling party in Holyrood wants another plebiscite, it has to persuade all the British people (including Scots) as represented by their MPs at Westminster. Which is only fair, as a secession would seriously affect all Britons.
    Well said.

    Scotland has taxation with representation, unlike the American colonies in 1776
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    HYUFD said:

    No. If we were going to make Scotland a colony we would also expel all Scottish MPs from Westminster and scrap Holyrood and impose direct rule over Scotland by the UK government
    I don’t think Plan C is for public discussion yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    Stocky said:

    I'm the other way round
    Ah ha. Ryder Cup pairing then. Me and you. Take down the best the Yanks can throw at us.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Stocky said:

    Belated congrats on the hole in one @kinabalu

    My best hole over the summer was a birdie at a 534 yard Par 5. I hardly ever get a birdie. This was a solid drive, just off the fairway to the right, then a cracking 7 wood well short and left of the green - and the hard ground and downhill left to right terrain took it onto the green to 12 feet from the hole. And I holed the putt.

    Playing on my own at the time, only a couple of rabbits looking on.

    Sounds more like an eagle unless I've missed a shot. Drive. 7 wood. Putt. ?
  • Selebian said:

    So, brief rant from me on jobsworths* gone mad:

    We've recently finished up with a round of masters students - they submitted their dissertations early last month. Normally, if they're reasonably competent - or think that they are! - they ask supervisors such as myself whether we'd be happy to provide references for employers. We generally say yes.

    We've just received guidance that requires us, if asked to actually provide a reference, to forward the request to the student admins who generate an automated report of module grades, attendance etc. And that's it. We're not supposed to add any subjective opinions. We're not supposed to add anything at all other than fact based things such as 'this person was also a member of committee x' etc or 'this person was an author on this paper'.

    We're also given a cover letter to use, which states that subjective information is not provided to protect our duty of care to the student and for data protection. It also disclaims any liability for inaccuracy in the data that are provided.

    To me, this is nuts. I know a fair bit about data protection (using highly sensitive data in my day job and having to justify the legal basis for that in data and ethics applications) and I can't see any issues here. Such a reference would be useless to me in deciding between candidates and the information will aleady be in the candidates application. It makes the whole exercise completely pointless. References are not a key part of recruitment**, but they can matter, sometimes you can read between the lines which gives you pointers for interview. Or they can help (my boss has told me that my reference from my former employer was quite eye catching - I've never seen it and don't know what was said, but she did say it stood out, presumably not in a bad way as I got the job.)

    The students who asked me if I'd provide a reference presumably expected more than this. If I'm contacted for a reference, I'm going to have to think about how to respond.

    Is anyone else aware of this happening elsewhere?

    *replace with 'woke', 'political correctness' or 'data protection' as appropriate
    ** there is an argument that they are pretty pointless, really

    I haven't seen this in my institution, but it is the sort of nonsense that the HR department might well dream up. I would expect our head of department to veto it.

    If they did somehow introduce that policy I would not follow it. I'm entitled to my opinions, and to express them. I might have to give my reference on non-headed paper, though. I don't think anyone would get, for example, a senior academic job without proper "opinion" references. And what would they expect for students who apply for security clearance? That needs often extensive interviews with the applicant's supervisor.

    --AS
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    IshmaelZ said:

    Some more

    "I think that between France and Africa, it must be a love story. Our country has been present on the continent both through triangular trade, conflicts from the early 19th century and then colonial wars."

    The minds considers boggling before accepting how utterly inadequate a response that would be.

    That said this story is a year old, any reason why it has come to life again?
    williamglenn and I were doing some French-bashing, just for larks, then I noticed that Algeria has just phased out French as a second language, moving to English, starting with science in their universities. Quite a big thing. Announced today, in part

    So I did a bit of digging and noticed this discourse has been going on for some time, how Macron's "pivot to Africa" has been a calamitous failure, raising hackles from the Maghreb south, and has actually diminished French power and influence across the continent

    Part of it, as you say, is his inconceivably clumsy language in these mad interviews

    Boris may be a buffoon at times, but I cannot imagine him going to New Delhi and saying "India must be in love with Britain" because "Britain occasionally and honourably allowed white Englishmen to take their young female Indian servants to bed"

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    It is neither. It is political, legal and constitutional nonsense.

    Scotland entered a consensual union with England, where it was agreed that ultimate political power, and the sovereignty of the united British people, would be expressed at Westminster - where the Scots would be equally represented by their elected MPs, just like the English, Welsh and so forth

    Have the Scots MPs been kicked out of Westminster? Is Scotland governed as a colony, with no democratic say in the British parliament in London, as, say India was, or Nigeria? Or the Solomon Islands?

    No, the Scots MPs are still there, representing Scots.

    If the question of a new Scottish referendum arises, it must be put to the House of Commons, and all the MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can decide, as one sovereign nation, and one democracy. Then the PM can deliver their democratic verdict to Holyrood

    If the ruling party in Holyrood wants another plebiscite, it has to persuade all the British people (including Scots) as represented by their MPs at Westminster. Which is only fair, as a secession would seriously affect all Britons.
    Well, except that it was cooked up by a lot of posh blokes on both sides, probably at the New Club in Edinburgh, and there's a disturbingly subversive tendency these days to think that deals done by the boyars ostensibly in the name of the serfs, need revisiting. Commie nonsense of course, but there you are.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,559
    HYUFD said:

    No. If we were going to make Scotland a colony we would also expel all Scottish MPs from Westminster and scrap Holyrood and impose direct rule over Scotland by the UK government
    That was a party election broadcast by the Conservative Party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296

    Sounds more like an eagle unless I've missed a shot. Drive. 7 wood. Putt. ?
    Yes I think he missed his chip out. Typical Stocky. You have to watch him.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    IshmaelZ said:

    Some more

    "I think that between France and Africa, it must be a love story. Our country has been present on the continent both through triangular trade, conflicts from the early 19th century and then colonial wars."

    The minds considers boggling before accepting how utterly inadequate a response that would be.

    That said this story is a year old, any reason why it has come to life again?
    Many Africans got rich out of the slave trade. Perhaps he's referring to them?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    edited October 2021

    I haven't seen this in my institution, but it is the sort of nonsense that the HR department might well dream up. I would expect our head of department to veto it.

    If they did somehow introduce that policy I would not follow it. I'm entitled to my opinions, and to express them. I might have to give my reference on non-headed paper, though. I don't think anyone would get, for example, a senior academic job without proper "opinion" references. And what would they expect for students who apply for security clearance? That needs often extensive interviews with the applicant's supervisor.

    --AS
    There was an incident in Staffordshire recently where a school decided to provide references confirming only whether the members of staff had safeguarding or disciplinary incidents against them.

    That wasn’t to do with GDPR, it was because the Principal had forced everyone to sign non-disclosure agreements about a ginormous breach of contract he had accidentally perpetrated, only to find he then couldn’t say anything in a reference.

    The plot thickened somewhat when it was found he had made false statements in some of these references, even though he had barely said anything.

    Which means that no school in Staffordshire is accepting his references and his staff are rather stuck.

    All in all, a proper car crash but nothing to do with GDPR.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,636
    Leon said:

    It is neither. It is political, legal and constitutional nonsense.

    Scotland entered a consensual union with England, where it was agreed that ultimate political power, and the sovereignty of the united British people, would be expressed at Westminster - where the Scots would be equally represented by their elected MPs, just like the English, Welsh and so forth

    Have the Scots MPs been kicked out of Westminster? Is Scotland governed as a colony, with no democratic say in the British parliament in London, as, say India was, or Nigeria? Or the Solomon Islands?

    No, the Scots MPs are still there, representing Scots.

    If the question of a new Scottish referendum arises, it must be put to the House of Commons, and all the MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can decide, as one sovereign nation, and one democracy. Then the PM can deliver their democratic verdict to Holyrood

    If the ruling party in Holyrood wants another plebiscite, it has to persuade all the British people (including Scots) as represented by their MPs at Westminster. Which is only fair, as a secession would seriously affect all Britons.
    I often wonder whether the SNP's strategic approach, having decided that they're unlikely to convince over 50% of Scots to vote to end the union, is to try to irritate enough English and Welsh people that over 50% of Brits vote to end the union.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    It is true though, it was possible to assimilate as a French man as an African, culturally, linguistically and politically. The 4 communes of Senegal were represented in the Assembly from the 19th century.

    Of course this was not applied much in practice, and nineteenth century French Colonialism was in practice as racist as in other European colonies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assimilation_(French_colonialism)

    The Portuguese pursued a similar policy. In practice the legacy of this assimilation policy compared to British Indirect rule is that in Francophone and Lusaphone Africa the ordinary people speak French or Portuguese, while in Anglophone Africa that is much less common, with English as a second language if spoken at all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    Cookie said:

    I often wonder whether the SNP's strategic approach, having decided that they're unlikely to convince over 50% of Scots to vote to end the union, is to try to irritate enough English and Welsh people that over 50% of Brits vote to end the union.
    I think that would be to mistake bad manners for strategy.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Miller was an excellent judgement - basically just said Parliament is in charge, which is correct. I'm sure if they'd wanted to they could have crafted something along the lines of the outrageous Marbury vs Maddison which gave SCOTUS more power than God to SCOTUK. It's to their credit that they didn't.
    It was fantastic.

    The hearing part was great, especially when they handed Ronan Lavery QC his testicles.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839

    It was fantastic.

    The hearing part was great, especially when they handed Ronan Lavery QC his testicles.
    Did they pay the iron price or the gold price for them?
  • Carnyx said:

    Interesting, especially that you have had counsel's view on this. I t wouldn't surprise me if the SA 1998 was worded with this in mind.

    We've flagged up Scotland as one of things that might upend the applecart, it has huge implications for this industry.

    Another thing might be fun to argue.

    Does circa 1.3 million votes in 2021 outweigh 2,000,000 votes in 2014?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    Leon said:

    williamglenn and I were doing some French-bashing, just for larks, then I noticed that Algeria has just phased out French as a second language, moving to English, starting with science in their universities. Quite a big thing. Announced today, in part

    So I did a bit of digging and noticed this discourse has been going on for some time, how Macron's "pivot to Africa" has been a calamitous failure, raising hackles from the Maghreb south, and has actually diminished French power and influence across the continent

    Part of it, as you say, is his inconceivably clumsy language in these mad interviews

    Boris may be a buffoon at times, but I cannot imagine him going to New Delhi and saying "India must be in love with Britain" because "Britain occasionally and honourably allowed white Englishmen to take their young female Indian servants to bed"

    Johnson did recite a racist bit of Kipling insulting the Buddha while visiting the most important pagoda in Yangon, and write a poem suggesting the President of Turkey was bestiary with a goat, amongst other "quips".

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple
  • That was a party election broadcast by the Conservative Party.
    El Fudillo awaits his moment.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    It is true though, it was possible to assimilate as a French man as an African, culturally, linguistically and politically. The 4 communes of Senegal were represented in the Assembly from the 19th century.

    Of course this was not applied much in practice, and nineteenth century French Colonialism was in practice as racist as in other European colonies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assimilation_(French_colonialism)

    The Portuguese pursued a similar policy. In practice the legacy of this assimilation policy compared to British Indirect rule is that in Francophone and Lusaphone Africa the ordinary people speak French or Portuguese, while in Anglophone Africa that is much less common, with English as a second language if spoken at all.
    Which actually makes anglophone East Africa much more interesting, linguistically. Broadly, in say Tanzania or Kenya everyone you are ever likely to speak to speaks perfect English and perfect Swahili, on top of a Bantu related mother tongue. Swahili itself is monstrously difficult what with prefixes, infixes and suffixes, and is actually an Arabic/bantu creole. Hence four is nne, a good bantu word, whereas 40 is arobaini = Arabic arbeen, because no native bantu speaker would have any use for a number that big.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Farooq said:

    Interesting that you use the word "consensual". How does a country withdraw consent? You appear to think that is may only do so if the other party/ies also agree. But that isn't what consent means.
    Consent means being able to say "we've changed our minds". If you don't agree with that as a right, fine, but don't talk about consent.
    It is consensual. The British parliament - including its Scots MPs - consented to give Scotland an independence referendum as recently as 2014. Now the SNP and other separatists need to persuade the British parliament to consent, once again. And I am sure it will happen, just not for a good few years.

    The idea the British PM must grant a vote to the Scottish government every time they ask for one is constitutional idiocy. If that is the legal state of affairs, then Sturgeon could ask for one every six months, until she wins

    No nation can allow that kind of turmoil. Once in a generation is about right, which is why it was mentioned by everyone. Come back after 2030. 15 years minimum
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    edited October 2021
    Prosecutors in Illinois have declined to press charges against people involved in a deadly gang shootout because they say it was "mutual combat".

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/10/3/22707555/5-suspects-released-without-charges-deadly-shootout-austin
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sean’s idea of consent = the patriarchy = lesser beings can be shafted at will by higher beings
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    Foxy said:

    Johnson did recite a racist bit of Kipling insulting the Buddha while visiting the most important pagoda in Yangon, and write a poem suggesting the President of Turkey was bestiary with a goat, amongst other "quips".

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple
    Well, that bit about the President of Turkey pretty offensive to be sure. No goat deserves to be buggered by Tayyip Erdogan.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    edited October 2021

    Prosecutors in Texas have declined to press charges against people involved in a deadly gang shootout because they say it was "mutual combat".

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/10/3/22707555/5-suspects-released-without-charges-deadly-shootout-austin

    Sounds like the verdict in last deadly duel fought in this country.

    https://www.historyanswers.co.uk/people-politics/englands-last-duel/

    Madness then, madness now.

    Texas increasingly seems to be becoming a parody of its nineteenth century self.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Foxy said:

    It is true though, it was possible to assimilate as a French man as an African, culturally, linguistically and politically. The 4 communes of Senegal were represented in the Assembly from the 19th century.

    Of course this was not applied much in practice, and nineteenth century French Colonialism was in practice as racist as in other European colonies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assimilation_(French_colonialism)

    The Portuguese pursued a similar policy. In practice the legacy of this assimilation policy compared to British Indirect rule is that in Francophone and Lusaphone Africa the ordinary people speak French or Portuguese, while in Anglophone Africa that is much less common, with English as a second language if spoken at all.
    Not sure that your final statement is true

    Total English speakers in Africa: 130m

    Total French speakers in Africa: 115m

    The disparity will grow as the Francophonie shrinks



    https://www.jumpspeak.com/blog/most-spoken-language-in-africa
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    IshmaelZ said:

    Which actually makes anglophone East Africa much more interesting, linguistically. Broadly, in say Tanzania or Kenya everyone you are ever likely to speak to speaks perfect English and perfect Swahili, on top of a Bantu related mother tongue. Swahili itself is monstrously difficult what with prefixes, infixes and suffixes, and is actually an Arabic/bantu creole. Hence four is nne, a good bantu word, whereas 40 is arobaini = Arabic arbeen, because no native bantu speaker would have any use for a number that big.
    It depends who you mix with, but yes in the tourist or business places people will speak English. When running clinics in Malawi, I would speak Chichewa with the patients, and English with the staff, but the Mozambican patients (the border was only a few miles) spoke Portuguese.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    It is consensual. The British parliament - including its Scots MPs - consented to give Scotland an independence referendum as recently as 2014. Now the SNP and other separatists need to persuade the British parliament to consent, once again. And I am sure it will happen, just not for a good few years.

    The idea the British PM must grant a vote to the Scottish government every time they ask for one is constitutional idiocy. If that is the legal state of affairs, then Sturgeon could ask for one every six months, until she wins

    No nation can allow that kind of turmoil. Once in a generation is about right, which is why it was mentioned by everyone. Come back after 2030. 15 years minimum
    It's probably better for Sturgeon politically that Boris denies her request. Zero chance of losing a referendum in that case. Sturgeon losing a second one, post Brexit would probably finish the Nats politically, it'd certainly finish Strugeon's career. Denying the request is a good way to build support for Scottish independence mind.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421

    Prosecutors in Texas have declined to press charges against people involved in a deadly gang shootout because they say it was "mutual combat".

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/10/3/22707555/5-suspects-released-without-charges-deadly-shootout-austin

    That's Austin, Chicago, Illinois

    Reminds me of this Alan Partridge scene when he explains to Sonia what Cockney is:

    https://partridge.cloud/scene/?id=iZbqqdICb4YM
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,849
    edited October 2021
    ydoethur said:

    There was an incident in Staffordshire recently where a school decided to provide references confirming only whether the members of staff had safeguarding or disciplinary incidents against them.

    That wasn’t to do with GDPR, it was because the Principal had forced everyone to sign non-disclosure agreements about a ginormous breach of contract he had accidentally perpetrated, only to find he then couldn’t say anything in a reference.

    The plot thickened somewhat when it was found he had made false statements in some of these references, even though he had barely said anything.

    Which means that no school in Staffordshire is accepting his references and his staff are rather stuck.

    All in all, a proper car crash but nothing to do with GDPR.
    Never been a fan of references- they are a bit of employer patronage in my view - Also very random in that you rarely get to choose your boss and hence likely to get a spectrum of references for the same work depending on the boss. They are pretty patronising in a literal sense and I think the law has correctly evolved to make it only safe for employers to give the basic facts . If a new employer cannot have a robust recruitment procedure to establish charatcer and experience then they need to change that not rely on references . A victorian relic when they were used by employers to control staff rigidly.

    Also most people leave jobs because they are not happy with the job and by extension probably with the boss directly or indirectly.Why should the boss therefore be the best judge of you?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    Ha! @ydoethur didn't read the article.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    Leon said:

    Not sure that your final statement is true

    Total English speakers in Africa: 130m

    Total French speakers in Africa: 115m

    The disparity will grow as the Francophonie shrinks



    https://www.jumpspeak.com/blog/most-spoken-language-in-africa
    The difference is whether as first or second language.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    Johnson did recite a racist bit of Kipling insulting the Buddha while visiting the most important pagoda in Yangon, and write a poem suggesting the President of Turkey was bestiary with a goat, amongst other "quips".

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple
    Perhaps not Johnson's finest moment, but it is still small potatoes in comparison to the French president saying "Every African must be in love with France because sometimes we ALLOWED you Africans to crossbreed with us"

    Macron's literal words, not some off colour poem. Incroyable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    It's probably better for Sturgeon politically that Boris denies her request. Zero chance of losing a referendum in that case. Sturgeon losing a second one, post Brexit would probably finish the Nats politically, it'd certainly finish Strugeon's career. Denying the request is a good way to build support for Scottish independence mind.
    I doubt it would make much difference.

    Only 40% of Scots want indyref2 before the next UK general election in 2024 and they are all convinced Nationalists and SNP voters anyway

    https://www.scotsman.com/regions/poll-scots-dont-want-indyref2-next-five-years-1420821
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,774
    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    What comes across from the interview is Macron has a real interest in Africa that is rare, to being unique amongst Western leaders.

    Don't know whether any of it makes sense, as I have no knowledge of the politics of the continent. I suspect some of it might and some of it probably doesn't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Foxy said:

    The difference is whether as first or second language.
    English is a widely spoken first or at least parallel language. South Africa, Uganda, Kenya, parts of Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Botswana: that's a lot of people, right there
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    FF43 said:

    What comes across from the interview is Macron has a real interest in Africa that is rare, to being unique amongst Western leaders.

    Don't know whether any of it makes sense, as I have no knowledge of the politics of the continent. I suspect some of it might and some of it probably doesn't.
    He has a real interest in Africa, such that he boasts of the French *allowing* inter-racial sex with Africans?

    It's a point of view. But, either way, it REALLY hasn't worked

    https://www.theafricareport.com/73566/in-africa-frances-image-takes-a-hit-but-turkey-qatar-and-the-uaes-are-on-the-up/

    https://www.theafricareport.com/52774/does-macron-understand-how-much-influence-france-has-lost-in-africa-achille-mbembe/
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Foxy said:

    The difference is whether as first or second language.
    So is Macron also proudly acclaiming France's snuffing out of a multitude of African languages?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    Farooq said:

    You keep talking about the constitution, but I'm not disputing that point. I say that it's on a political level that things look bad.
    You either believe in the principle that it should be the sovereign right of a nation to achieve independence through a peaceful democratic process of its own choosing, or you don't.

    The every six months, 15 years, generation, all this stuff is just rhetoric. The public should judge whether it is too soon or the time is right.

    I don't see how any democrat could think cross on a calendar should have more weight than a cross on a ballot paper.
    Well I don't believe it is the sovereign right of a nation in a Union to try and achieve independence every few years.

    Independence referendums should be granted at most once a decade and ideally longer otherwise they are too unstable
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    tlg86 said:

    Ha! @ydoethur didn't read the article.

    I’m puzzled. Why do you think goats deserve to be buggered by Fascist dictators? What have you got against goats?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    HYUFD said:

    Well I don't believe it is the sovereign right of a nation in a Union to try and achieve independence every few years.

    Independence referendums should be granted at most once a decade and ideally longer otherwise they are too unstable
    Oh, now you are agreeing we should have them more often than 10 years? You are really going on a journey.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    Carnyx said:

    Oh, now you are agreeing we should have them more often than 10 years? You are really going on a journey.
    Well, that tank won’t move by itself you know.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,852
    edited October 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Yes I think he missed his chip out. Typical Stocky. You have to watch him.
    One of those opponents who hacks it down the rough out of sight and eventually pops up on the green to can a 25 footer and claim a par? I couldn't legitimately complain about that, as that was my style too.

    There's nothing worse than hitting a good shot without an audience, though. If nobody was watching, did it even happen?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    HYUFD said:

    The governing SNP and Greens got only 49% on the constituency vote at Holyrood in May and only 48.4% on the list, that is not a thumping majority for indyref2 on any grounds
    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    Carnyx said:

    Oh, now you are agreeing we should have them more often than 10 years? You are really going on a journey.
    No, I said they should not be allowed more than once a decade ie certainly not more often than every 10 years
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Carnyx said:

    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
    Are 100% of SNP voters pro-indy?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    Farooq said:

    You keep talking about the constitution, but I'm not disputing that point. I say that it's on a political level that things look bad.
    You either believe in the principle that it should be the sovereign right of a nation to achieve independence through a peaceful democratic process of its own choosing, or you don't.

    The every six months, 15 years, generation, all this stuff is just rhetoric. The public should judge whether it is too soon or the time is right.

    I don't see how any democrat could think cross on a calendar should have more weight than a cross on a ballot paper.
    Why do you think this principle is not generally applied in modern democracies?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    Carnyx said:

    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
    Without wishing to side with Hyufd on all points, I’m not sure the three geriatric Socialists representing approximately 30% of Labour’s vote will make that much of a difference.

    (Yes, this is a joke.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    ydoethur said:

    I don’t think Plan C is for public discussion yet.
    On the contrary, Mr Johnson has already been talking about it to his backbenchers as I recall.
  • One of those opponents who hacks it down the rough out of sight and eventually pops up on the green to can a 25 footer an claim a par? I couldn't legitimately complain about that, as that was my style too.

    There's nothing worse than hitting a good shot without an audience, though. If nobody was watching, did it even happen?
    Although in golf nobody really cares about others shots - they are too focused on their own game - An example of that in pro golf was when a young professional Fuzzy Zoeller was paired with Jack Nicklaus in his prime - He was so nervous he had a realy bad round and felt he had to say sorry to Jack at the end - When he did so Jack Nicklaus looked bemused and asked him what he scored as he had no idea as he was focused on his onw game
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    Carnyx said:

    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
    It is bums on Westminster seats that matters yes, it would not matter if every MSP was SNP, Westminster could legally and constitutionally still refuse indyref2.

    Of course not every SNP voter is pro independence either
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,559
    Off topic, why are natural gas prices being quoted in pence per Therm. What sort of antiquated unit is that?

    Let's use kWh or kJ. Even MMBTU would be better.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    Farooq said:

    Because many people have a quaint attachment to the idea of their country as immutable.
    Do you think Orkney and Shetland or other parts of 'Scotland' should be given the chance to remain part of the UK in the event of a vote for independence?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    HYUFD said:

    It is bums on Westminster seats that matters yes, it would not matter if every MSP was SNP, Westminster could legally and constitutionally still refuse indyref2.

    Of course not every SNP voter is pro independence either
    Away and play with this - it will go round and round in circles.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265345466806?hash=item3dc7d281b6:g:1c0AAOSwwcRhXFcl
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,849
    edited October 2021

    Off topic, why are natural gas prices being quoted in pence per Therm. What sort of antiquated unit is that?

    Let's use kWh or kJ. Even MMBTU would be better.

    Nah - Therms sound nice and cosy and warm (literally nearly) , KWH or KJ sound soulless without the advantage of making it any easier to mentally picture the amount (unlike say metres can ) .

    Also like the fact that oil is measured in barrels !
  • HYUFD said:

    No. If we were going to make Scotland a colony we would also expel all Scottish MPs from Westminster and scrap Holyrood and impose direct rule over Scotland by the UK government
    "The regional governors now have direct control of their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station."
  • ydoethur said:

    Well, that bit about the President of Turkey pretty offensive to be sure. No goat deserves to be buggered by Tayyip Erdogan.
    The poem about the President of Turkey was entirely justified and won an award. It wasn't a mistake.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284

    "The regional governors now have direct control of their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station."
    We've already sent Gove up one to terrorise the locals.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    HYUFD said:

    No, I said they should not be allowed more than once a decade ie certainly not more often than every 10 years
    You said "at most once a decade".

    I recommend English as a Foreign Language as a qualification to which you should aspire.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    TimT said:

    So is Macron also proudly acclaiming France's snuffing out of a multitude of African languages?
    No, but like a lot of history it happened. European Colonialism changed the world, and to a modern eye much wouldn't be acceptable today. Recognising this as a fact is neutral. Being proud or ashamed of it are emotional responses to that fact.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    "The regional governors now have direct control of their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station."
    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9525378,-3.1830513,3a,90y,106.45h,103.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2vyfsaRdYr5p3qT_eDi9Rg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Love this photo from Boris speech by the estimable Charlie Bibby https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1445720267624534019/photo/1
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Pulpstar said:

    It's probably better for Sturgeon politically that Boris denies her request. Zero chance of losing a referendum in that case. Sturgeon losing a second one, post Brexit would probably finish the Nats politically, it'd certainly finish Strugeon's career. Denying the request is a good way to build support for Scottish independence mind.
    Shhh!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Farooq said:

    If they chose that. And since I don't live there, why would I stand in their way?
    I wouldn't recommend it being part of the same campaign, for practical reasons.
    What about Cornwall? Or Sussex? Or the land of the Jutes? Or the Isle of Ely? Or Deira? Or the village of Sweffling? Or me?

    Maybe I, Leon of this Ilk, should have a vote whether I want to be independent of London, and thereby pay no more tax. And if somehow I contrive to vote against my own desire for independence, losing my referendum by one vote, my own, then I will then demand ANOTHER vote, so that I, Leon of thsIlk, can have another vote on whether I, Leon of this blah blah fucking blah

    Westminster decides. It is the only sane route. Nationalist Scots need to persuade the entire British people, via their MPs, at Westminster, that an independence referendum is needed. It is not like this is impossible, you did it just 7 years ago
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Carnyx said:

    You said "at most once a decade".

    I recommend English as a Foreign Language as a qualification to which you should aspire.
    Isn't he referring to the frequency? "at most once a decade" makes sense in that context.
  • Leon said:

    Not sure that your final statement is true

    Total English speakers in Africa: 130m
    Total French speakers in Africa: 115m

    The disparity will grow as the Francophonie shrinks
    https://www.jumpspeak.com/blog/most-spoken-language-in-africa
    English is the best language in the world!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Leon said:

    What about Cornwall? Or Sussex? Or the land of the Jutes? Or the Isle of Ely? Or Deira? Or the village of Sweffling? Or me?

    Maybe I, Leon of this Ilk, should have a vote whether I want to be independent of London, and thereby pay no more tax. And if somehow I contrive to vote against my own desire for independence, losing my referendum by one vote, my own, then I will then demand ANOTHER vote, so that I, Leon of thsIlk, can have another vote on whether I, Leon of this blah blah fucking blah

    Westminster decides. It is the only sane route. Nationalist Scots need to persuade the entire British people, via their MPs, at Westminster, that an independence referendum is needed. It is not like this is impossible, you did it just 7 years ago
    Only one vote? A depressingly low turnout given the electorate. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Not sure that your final statement is true

    Total English speakers in Africa: 130m

    Total French speakers in Africa: 115m

    The disparity will grow as the Francophonie shrinks



    https://www.jumpspeak.com/blog/most-spoken-language-in-africa
    More Canadians speak French as their native language than in any individual nation in Africa
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    RobD said:

    Isn't he referring to the frequency? "at most once a decade" makes sense in that context.
    Still doesn't make sense, unless Epping primary children breed like, erm, rabbits.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,774
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    He has a real interest in Africa, such that he boasts of the French *allowing* inter-racial sex with Africans?

    It's a point of view. But, either way, it REALLY hasn't worked

    https://www.theafricareport.com/73566/in-africa-frances-image-takes-a-hit-but-turkey-qatar-and-the-uaes-are-on-the-up/

    https://www.theafricareport.com/52774/does-macron-understand-how-much-influence-france-has-lost-in-africa-achille-mbembe/
    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.

    More on this. French Wikipedia gives Barack Obama as example of métissage. Strictly you could say he's crossbred, but it's not the way you would put it, I think.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Carnyx said:

    Still doesn't make sense, unless Epping primary children breed like, erm, rabbits.
    Yeah, it does. They should occur at most once a decade, which is more than, say, once per century.
  • RobD said:

    Only one vote? A depressingly low turnout given the electorate. ;)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mJw50OdZ4
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Farooq said:

    The slippery slope fallacy doesn't help you here. Clearly you, or your street, could not function as an independent country. You'd be a menace to those around you and such nanostates are not really what anyone is advocating.
    Clearly Scotland-sized countries are viable. There are many that are smaller.

    If you want me to draw a line to say where in between the cutoff is, I honestly don't know. You have a go. But it's not really what's being talked about.
    You're just flailing now
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    It is bums on Westminster seats that matters yes, it would not matter if every MSP was SNP, Westminster could legally and constitutionally still refuse indyref2.

    Of course not every SNP voter is pro independence either
    Depends what you mean by Westminster. If you mean legislation by the HoC, fine. If you mean executive acts of the S o S for Scotland, them's judicially reviewable. I don't see how a request for an indyref would be answered by an Act of Parliament. It would be an executive refusal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    RobD said:

    Yeah, it does. They should occur at most once a decade, which is more than, say, once per century.
    Not in the HYUFD context. He is always rabbiting (sic) on about generations. That is, the years bit of the ratio. He was saying just now at most once a decade - ie no longer a cycle than 10 years. Like 0.1 cm is a shorter wavelength than 3 cm.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Carnyx said:

    Not in the HYUFD context. He is always rabbiting (sic) on about generations. That is, the years bit of the ratio. He was saying just now at most once a decade - ie no longer a cycle than 10 years. Like 0.1 cm is a shorter wavelength than 3 cm.
    But he didn't mention generations at all here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    FF43 said:

    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.
    "métissage" in English
    métissage {m}EN
    miscegenation crossbreeding crossing interbreeding



    métissé

    adjective

    of mixed race having ancestors (especially parents) from two or more different human races.


    French to English: more detail...
    métissage:
    miscegenation; mixture of races
    Wiktionary:
    métissage → interbreeding, crossbreeding, crossing, miscegenation


    The ability of twattish Remoaners like you to bend over backwards and forgive an EU politician a ridiculously stupid and insulting remark is always remarkable. If Boris said the equivalent you'd herniate yourself in your confected outrage
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    Farooq said:

    The slippery slope fallacy doesn't help you here. Clearly you, or your street, could not function as an independent country. You'd be a menace to those around you and such nanostates are not really what anyone is advocating.
    Clearly Scotland-sized countries are viable. There are many that are smaller.

    If you want me to draw a line to say where in between the cutoff is, I honestly don't know. You have a go. But it's not really what's being talked about.
    There are 24 nations in the world with populations under 50,000 ie smaller than most UK cities and 8 with populations under 10,000 ie smaller even than most UK market towns

    https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    RobD said:

    But he didn't mention generations at all here.
    So? Who cares? He's only mentioned it 3,341 times. It's his default option.

    And in any case, I really do worry what is happening in Epping schools under his supervision (or at least that of his colleagues) if he thinks 10 years is a generation. Not that I am complaining; he's improving.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    The slippery slope fallacy doesn't help you here. Clearly you, or your street, could not function as an independent country. You'd be a menace to those around you and such nanostates are not really what anyone is advocating.
    Clearly Scotland-sized countries are viable. There are many that are smaller.

    If you want me to draw a line to say where in between the cutoff is, I honestly don't know. You have a go. But it's not really what's being talked about.
    Tisn't a size cut off, it's an historical fact - you are a country by heredity or you aren't, same way as you are an Earl by heredity or you aren't - the parallel is exact, though it may not be palatable to the more sansculotte nationalists (all of them). Orkney n Shetland just about make it as a country, 1472 being fairly recent in the scheme of things.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FF43 said:

    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.

    More on this. French Wikipedia gives Barack Obama as example of métissage. Strictly you could say he's crossbred, but it's not the way you would put it, I think.
    Mulatto? Quadroon? High-yaller?

    And how, metaphorically or literally, does France have Africa "in its blood" than any other European nation which pillaged the continent?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    Scott_xP said:

    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1

    Note the important caveat at the bottom. They weren't forced to watch the whole thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    IshmaelZ said:

    Depends what you mean by Westminster. If you mean legislation by the HoC, fine. If you mean executive acts of the S o S for Scotland, them's judicially reviewable. I don't see how a request for an indyref would be answered by an Act of Parliament. It would be an executive refusal.
    It would be under the Scotland Act 1998 that it would be refused as going beyond Holyrood's powers as set out by Westminster
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    IshmaelZ said:

    Depends what you mean by Westminster. If you mean legislation by the HoC, fine. If you mean executive acts of the S o S for Scotland, them's judicially reviewable. I don't see how a request for an indyref would be answered by an Act of Parliament. It would be an executive refusal.
    Quite. As a matter of interest, though, why not an Act of Parliament?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1

    Sorry, but "nevertheless an interesting one" is a lie. Boris was an amusing lightweight, Starmer was mogadon man.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    Scott_xP said:

    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1

    It will be interesting to see if the Tories get a Conferene bounce. Perhaps this will be the year that no party gets any such thing. Perhaps they are now "over" as a thing

    That said, it is clear which is the bouncier party, after their conference, and their leader's speech
  • RobD said:

    Note the important caveat at the bottom. They weren't forced to watch the whole thing.
    And I think the Kool Aid swings both ways.

    Scott has absolutely drank the FBPE Kool Aid as have others. I expect Boris will be quite happy to take 51% agreeing with him, even if Scott's Kool Aid gang disagree with him.
This discussion has been closed.