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The big speech reaction – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I fear we are seeing the effects of the vaccine wearing off.

    Get those boosters people.
    Which effects? Protection against infection? Probably. Protection against hospitalization and death? Not seen much evidence for that. So I think a more likely explanation is that, with kids back at school being the prime spreaders, but more and more breakthrough infections of the vaccinated, that the proportion of the COVID dead who are dying with, rather than of, COVID is increasing significantly.

    But I have no evidence for this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Leon said:

    We do?! Why is it?

    Sincere question
    My question to you is also sincere.

    Please answer it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    Well, it's certainly true that it's harder for them than it was for me.

    It's also possible that they use hyperbolic language "normally" now to communicate in a way I simply don't understand or recognise, and it's not as significant as I think it is because I take the words used at face value.
    CR, you are actually NOT THAT OLD.

    Young fogeyism is very ageing, no wonder you need moisturiser.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    My question to you is also sincere.

    Please answer it.
    What question?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    I can't imagine fancying a woman who doesn't want to smash the patriarchy.
    Ah, the English disease.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    Pro_Rata said:

    The last confirmed rise in cases by sample date week on week is 27/9 being higher than 20/9, which has been the case for a few days, though the falls are settling as slight. Still think we're merely at a col with cases (and hospitalisations) before continuing upwards, and have at least 2-3 weeks of rises from university returns and the more gradual build up primary school cases in particular. But the longer we go, the weaker the coming case surge is likely to be, and the more October half term will gain us.

    I think the 7 day average case rates will saw tooth quite a bit yet, as different factors come into play (Xmas parties, returns to work, the move indoors), but those mini surges will be on a decaying, downward overall trend between October and Christmas, and though the New Year saw tooth will trend back up weakly, it will not be too long before dipping down again.

    I've said I would have gone for a national two week October half term which I'd have announced in August and I would have had more of a plan B to bring to bear on restrictions if needed. I've not changed my view on that, such a modest advanced notice restriction would have better ensured a good position in the run up to Christmas even if we might yet get away without it and it now looks like plan B would have sat untouched.
    English cases are thus -

    image
    image
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    We do nothing, except vaccinate more people.
    Witty said at the recent presser that people's reticence in going back completely to normal was largely what had kept hospitalisations at a presentable level, with average daily contacts at about half the pre pandemic level. Despite those comments, we've since had the governing party and the PM himself put pressure on people to "return to work". I can say from first hand experience this has fed through firmly into corporate communications. Same for most people I know.

    Well before the need for anything resembling a lockdown, the return to "WFH if you can" would be the easiest bullet in the world to fire (unless you are a supremely wealthy chancellor with untold indirect commercial property interests). And it's quite a surprise they haven't already gone down this route until they've boosted groups 1-9. As we have it from the CMO that it is the thing most likely to impact average daily contacts.

    The concern will be that in its haste to put the pandemic firmly behind them, the government has missed an open goal that would have prevented any further restrictions this winter.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    Yes, I see a fair number of men of a certain age who wear shorts whatever the weather. Usually saggy cargo shorts with full side pockets. It isn't a flattering look.
    For me, apart from requirements of simple decency and cleanliness, what really should matter is the the state of their body. But it is true that, given the time/trouble/money one can do wonders of camouflage: take for instance Trump.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Leon said:

    What question?
    See upthread on young women saying patriarchy a lot.

    Thoughts based on your experience?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    Personally I went to absolute seed during lockdown. Beard, shorts, bad hair - the lot.

    It’s been nice to dress respectably again.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Toms said:

    For me, apart from requirements of simple decency and cleanliness, what really should matter is the the state of their body. But it is true that, given the time/trouble/money one can do wonders of camouflage: take for instance Trump.
    @ Foxy. It's just because we're past caring what people think of how we look. :dizzy:
  • TimT said:

    Which effects? Protection against infection? Probably. Protection against hospitalization and death? Not seen much evidence for that. So I think a more likely explanation is that, with kids back at school being the prime spreaders, but more and more breakthrough infections of the vaccinated, that the proportion of the COVID dead who are dying with, rather than of, COVID is increasing significantly.

    But I have no evidence for this.
    Infections.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/pfizer-covid-jab-90-effective-against-hospitalisation-for-at-least-6-months
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    edited October 2021
    Cookie said:

    In any group of 38,000 people, unfortunately some of them will die within the next 28 days. Many simply fall into that category.
    This isn't a massive number

    " In 2019, there were 496,370 total deaths in England" (ONS)

    56,286,961 2019 population of England (Google)

    So in a 28 day period there'd be 38,077 deaths in the population.

    Taking a random 38,000 population

    (38000 x 38077)/56286961 = 26 deaths.

    Given how many cases are amongst schoolkids, it should be lower than that I'd have thought too. If the case numbers were really high in 80+ I might agree, but they're not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    As another male knitter, there is an odd prejudice out there. I have won prizes for my knitting at local shows, and design my own garments. My wife is a recipient of many fine jumpers.

    In one of my books is a lighthouse keeper who knitted his own ganseys all his life (a gansey is a traditional knitted jumper worn by fisherman around the UK and in the Netherlands). Historically, before framework knitting, men would be knitters in a profession.
    Unfortunate friend of mine used to live in Tooting and commute to central London. He used to knit on the Tube. Got a lot of funny looks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    England cases - by using the non-age data, we get the latest data

    image
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    felix said:

    Reading through the thread a myriad of comments about Boris - many bemused about his appeal, some irritated that he's a toff, several detecting change in the public mood [ though not yet reflected in the polls apparently]. Seems overall as if the conference has done its job. Opponents no nearer understanding either him or his appeal - and flailing around with the usual snide remarks, belittling his supporters, waiting for the polls to turn, maybe hoping just a little for catatrophes ahead to derail the government.

    All in all a good result. Let's see what the future will bring..

    Another ringing endorsement of today’s big leadership speech. Not. 😆
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    ...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    CR, you are actually NOT THAT OLD.

    Young fogeyism is very ageing, no wonder you need moisturiser.
    I bet more young women fancy me than you.

    So fuck off, old boy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    rkrkrk said:

    Might be easier for Labour to find a leader who can tell jokes.
    If you can't beat em join em, you mean? Maybe it's come to that. I sense John McDonnell would have the nation smiling but the centrist dads have got hold of the party now and they'd shy away from him, I think.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Infections.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/pfizer-covid-jab-90-effective-against-hospitalisation-for-at-least-6-months
    With 90% of the over 16s single- and 82% double-vaxxed in the UK, I think it's almost time from a society-level public health perspective to welcome high rates of infection - at that level of vaccination, and higher levels for the vulnerable, it will confer levels of protection to those who are unwilling to be vaccinated for whatever reason at very low morbidity and mortality rates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    The Supreme Court rules that Holyrood went beyond its powers in 2 bills which judges ruled could affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58794698

    An encouraging ruling for Boris and disappointing for Sturgeon as it suggests if Sturgeon went to the SC and asked to overturn the UK government's refusal to allow an indyref2, the court would side with Boris and the UK government much as the highest court in Spain declared Catalonia's attempted independence referendum to not be constitutional
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296

    See upthread on young women saying patriarchy a lot.

    Thoughts based on your experience?
    Saying it to you, you mean?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    A much better point from Andrew Roberts about invading Russia is that Hitler thought this

    "Weather prediction is not a science that can be learnt mechanically. What we
    need are men gifted with a sixth sense, who live in nature and with nature-
    whether or not they know anything about isotherms and isobars. As a rule,
    obviously, these men are not particularly suited to the wearing of uniforms. One
    of them will have a humped back, another will be bandy-legged, a third paralytic.
    Similarly, one doesn't expect them to live like bureaucrats. They won't run the
    risk of being transported from a region they know to another of which they know
    nothing—as regards climatological conditions, that's to say. They won't be
    answerable to superiors who necessarily know more about the subject than they
    do—in virtue of their pips and crowns and who might be tempted to dictate to
    them the truths that are vested in a man by virtue of his superior rank."

    Which reads to me like a really bad pastiche of John Buchan. A profoundly stupid man.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,272
    My sister who I live with has tested positive, she says it feels like a bad cold and her energy levels feel low. She is working from home lying on bed watch TV with her laptop tray (she is a textile designer). Hopefully the vacc will do it's job for her and that's all she gets.

    Awaiting my PCR result, if it's negative I will have to do a lateral flow before work each day for the next 10 days. Feeling ok for the most part, bit of a headache though that could be anything.

    Get your boosters everyone, mine was due today after 7 months since my last dose. Hopefully I am negative and I can get it done next week.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I'd never wear shorts in a professional capacity - you just feel better when smartly dressed. But I do tend to live in shorts in my free time.
    Half the fun of working from home during the pandemic, was wearing a shirt with shorts on video calls!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Lol? You? PB’s premier incel?
    Please both stop this before it gets too embarrassing - I take it you both have no idea what the other looks like
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    TimT said:

    With 90% of the over 16s single- and 82% double-vaxxed in the UK, I think it's almost time from a society-level public health perspective to welcome high rates of infection - at that level of vaccination, and higher levels for the vulnerable, it will confer levels of protection to those who are unwilling to be vaccinated for whatever reason at very low morbidity and mortality rates.
    So far as I can tell Covid is blimming risky still if you're very old even if you're vaccinated. But these are NOT people who would be dieing anyway, certainly not in the next 28 days.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    isam said:

    Please both stop this before it gets too embarrassing - I take it you both have no idea what the other looks like
    That’s true. It’s possible Casino Royale looks like a young Sean Connery.

    I don’t rule it out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    HYUFD said:

    The Supreme Court rules that Holyrood went beyond its powers in 2 bills which judges ruled could affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58794698

    An encouraging ruling for Boris and disappointing for Sturgeon as it suggests if Sturgeon went to the SC and asked to overturn the UK government's refusal to allow an indyref2, the court would side with Boris and the UK government much as the highest court in Spain declared Catalonia's attempted independence referendum to not be constitutional

    Concerning "incorporat[ion of] aspects of international treaties into Scots law". Relevance doubtful; but not as irrelevant as your insistence that Spanish constitutional law is relevant. .
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    TimT said:

    With 90% of the over 16s single- and 82% double-vaxxed in the UK, I think it's almost time from a society-level public health perspective to welcome high rates of infection - at that level of vaccination, and higher levels for the vulnerable, it will confer levels of protection to those who are unwilling to be vaccinated for whatever reason at very low morbidity and mortality rates.
    This seems to me to be the government's plan. Thinking being you'll have a better wall against breakthrough infection through acquired immunity plus vaccine, than just vaccine alone (immune recognition of 28 proteins vs just 1?).

    However this judgement was made pre-delta and before Israel's warning on waning immunity (at least with a 3-week Pfizer programme). Whether the Uk government still looks so clever as the weather turns we shall have to wait and see. But it looks increasingly like internationally, "fully vaccinated" will come to mean three doses not two. But on the basis that this government will do the right thing only after exploring every alternative, no crowded commuter trains / meeting rooms for me until the booster is in my arm in a month or so's time.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    IshmaelZ said:

    A much better point from Andrew Roberts about invading Russia is that Hitler thought this

    "Weather prediction is not a science that can be learnt mechanically. What we
    need are men gifted with a sixth sense, who live in nature and with nature-
    whether or not they know anything about isotherms and isobars. As a rule,
    obviously, these men are not particularly suited to the wearing of uniforms. One
    of them will have a humped back, another will be bandy-legged, a third paralytic.
    Similarly, one doesn't expect them to live like bureaucrats. They won't run the
    risk of being transported from a region they know to another of which they know
    nothing—as regards climatological conditions, that's to say. They won't be
    answerable to superiors who necessarily know more about the subject than they
    do—in virtue of their pips and crowns and who might be tempted to dictate to
    them the truths that are vested in a man by virtue of his superior rank."

    Which reads to me like a really bad pastiche of John Buchan. A profoundly stupid man.

    Alternatively, that might be a rather indirect description of Gary Klein's definition of true expertise - the ability to intuit conclusions instantly and subconsciously in extremely complex situations where their is no time for conscious rationalization and, in any case, it would offer no answers; an intuition that comes from many years of working the issue first hand and pushing one's knowledge of it deliberately to the extent that our brain is able subconsciously to make recognition-primed decisions. Think firefighters and naval aviators; or good meteorologists.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,675
    One of the worst things about that rise to 39K cases is iSAGE will be back on our news channels warning of the apocalypse again.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    A French MP has drafted a resolution calling for French to be made the sole working language of the EU.

    https://twitter.com/julienaubert84/status/1445665732813996036
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Farooq said:

    Shout out for Nick Clegg there too. He went from top drawer to bottom but one just for joining Facebook.
    To think I voted for him in 2010, and felt sorry for him after not voting for him in 2015!
    Console yourself in the knowledge that he’s having to work harder than usual, for this week’s $100k wage packet.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    A French MP has drafted a resolution calling for French to be made the sole working language of the EU.

    https://twitter.com/julienaubert84/status/1445665732813996036

    Bonne chance with that
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited October 2021
    jonny83 said:

    My sister who I live with has tested positive, she says it feels like a bad cold and her energy levels feel low. She is working from home lying on bed watch TV with her laptop tray (she is a textile designer). Hopefully the vacc will do it's job for her and that's all she gets.

    Awaiting my PCR result, if it's negative I will have to do a lateral flow before work each day for the next 10 days. Feeling ok for the most part, bit of a headache though that could be anything.

    Get your boosters everyone, mine was due today after 7 months since my last dose. Hopefully I am negative and I can get it done next week.

    Just had my third. The 1st two hardly registered on the Richter scale, indeed I had a good workout on the day of the 1st one. Proverbs, 16:18 ??
    AND GOOD LUCK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    Sir Peter Bottomley has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

    Sir Peter says MPs, who are paid £81,932, should be paid the same amount as GPs – whose average salary is £100,700.

    The average salary across the UK was £31,461 as of last year. Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues.

    He added: ‘Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues. I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.’

    This comes on the day of the cut of £20 per week to Universal Credit. I suggest Boris gets the CCHQ PR team to kindly give Sir Peter some retraining!
    https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1445759249489936388?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1445759252379881472?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1445759260919418888?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    One of the worst things about that rise to 39K cases is iSAGE will be back on our news channels warning of the apocalypse again.

    Could someone show me the apocalypse, please?

    image

    reporting data again? FFS.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    Lol? You? PB’s premier incel?
    Lol. I've had more sex with more beautiful women than you could ever dream to hope for.

    You're just a tedious troll.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    See upthread on young women saying patriarchy a lot.

    Thoughts based on your experience?
    It's just a buzzword. If anything is wrong with the world - esp if you're a woman - then it's "the patriarchy". In the 60s it would have been "the system". Smash the system! Ten years ago "the man". Stick it to the man!

    In 5 years it will be replaced by something else

    BTW it's not just young women who use it, I have a couple of middle aged female lefty friends who use it, quite unselfconsciously
  • IshmaelZ said:

    A much better point from Andrew Roberts about invading Russia is that Hitler thought this

    "Weather prediction is not a science that can be learnt mechanically. What we
    need are men gifted with a sixth sense, who live in nature and with nature-
    whether or not they know anything about isotherms and isobars. As a rule,
    obviously, these men are not particularly suited to the wearing of uniforms. One
    of them will have a humped back, another will be bandy-legged, a third paralytic.
    Similarly, one doesn't expect them to live like bureaucrats. They won't run the
    risk of being transported from a region they know to another of which they know
    nothing—as regards climatological conditions, that's to say. They won't be
    answerable to superiors who necessarily know more about the subject than they
    do—in virtue of their pips and crowns and who might be tempted to dictate to
    them the truths that are vested in a man by virtue of his superior rank."

    Which reads to me like a really bad pastiche of John Buchan. A profoundly stupid man.

    AH or JB?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    So, brief rant from me on jobsworths* gone mad:

    We've recently finished up with a round of masters students - they submitted their dissertations early last month. Normally, if they're reasonably competent - or think that they are! - they ask supervisors such as myself whether we'd be happy to provide references for employers. We generally say yes.

    We've just received guidance that requires us, if asked to actually provide a reference, to forward the request to the student admins who generate an automated report of module grades, attendance etc. And that's it. We're not supposed to add any subjective opinions. We're not supposed to add anything at all other than fact based things such as 'this person was also a member of committee x' etc or 'this person was an author on this paper'.

    We're also given a cover letter to use, which states that subjective information is not provided to protect our duty of care to the student and for data protection. It also disclaims any liability for inaccuracy in the data that are provided.

    To me, this is nuts. I know a fair bit about data protection (using highly sensitive data in my day job and having to justify the legal basis for that in data and ethics applications) and I can't see any issues here. Such a reference would be useless to me in deciding between candidates and the information will aleady be in the candidates application. It makes the whole exercise completely pointless. References are not a key part of recruitment**, but they can matter, sometimes you can read between the lines which gives you pointers for interview. Or they can help (my boss has told me that my reference from my former employer was quite eye catching - I've never seen it and don't know what was said, but she did say it stood out, presumably not in a bad way as I got the job.)

    The students who asked me if I'd provide a reference presumably expected more than this. If I'm contacted for a reference, I'm going to have to think about how to respond.

    Is anyone else aware of this happening elsewhere?

    *replace with 'woke', 'political correctness' or 'data protection' as appropriate
    ** there is an argument that they are pretty pointless, really
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    HYUFD said:

    The Supreme Court rules that Holyrood went beyond its powers in 2 bills which judges ruled could affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58794698

    An encouraging ruling for Boris and disappointing for Sturgeon as it suggests if Sturgeon went to the SC and asked to overturn the UK government's refusal to allow an indyref2, the court would side with Boris and the UK government much as the highest court in Spain declared Catalonia's attempted independence referendum to not be constitutional

    That’s a good ruling, which bodes well for the future - but the constitutional positions of Scotland and Catalonia are very different, and really shouldnt be conflated.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    Lol. I've had more sex with more beautiful women than you could ever dream to hope for.

    You're just a tedious troll.
    You do a truly amazing impression of Alan Partridge. It’s uncanny.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    Selebian said:

    So, brief rant from me on jobsworths* gone mad:

    We've recently finished up with a round of masters students - they submitted their dissertations early last month. Normally, if they're reasonably competent - or think that they are! - they ask supervisors such as myself whether we'd be happy to provide references for employers. We generally say yes.

    We've just received guidance that requires us, if asked to actually provide a reference, to forward the request to the student admins who generate an automated report of module grades, attendance etc. And that's it. We're not supposed to add any subjective opinions. We're not supposed to add anything at all other than fact based things such as 'this person was also a member of committee x' etc or 'this person was an author on this paper'.

    We're also given a cover letter to use, which states that subjective information is not provided to protect our duty of care to the student and for data protection. It also disclaims any liability for inaccuracy in the data that are provided.

    To me, this is nuts. I know a fair bit about data protection (using highly sensitive data in my day job and having to justify the legal basis for that in data and ethics applications) and I can't see any issues here. Such a reference would be useless to me in deciding between candidates and the information will aleady be in the candidates application. It makes the whole exercise completely pointless. References are not a key part of recruitment**, but they can matter, sometimes you can read between the lines which gives you pointers for interview. Or they can help (my boss has told me that my reference from my former employer was quite eye catching - I've never seen it and don't know what was said, but she did say it stood out, presumably not in a bad way as I got the job.)

    The students who asked me if I'd provide a reference presumably expected more than this. If I'm contacted for a reference, I'm going to have to think about how to respond.

    Is anyone else aware of this happening elsewhere?

    *replace with 'woke', 'political correctness' or 'data protection' as appropriate
    ** there is an argument that they are pretty pointless, really

    In number of companies I know of, managers have been forbidden by the legal dept. from giving references. All request to HR.

    This includes personal references. Everything must go to HR.

    Several companies I've encountered don't even ask for references. They assume that the vetting company they employ will contact HR at each company you worked at.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296

    Not being the sort of guy who shares pictures of his erect member with strangers on the internet it does create some doubt as to my gender and, since I have no reason to be offended, you should have no reason to feel ashamed.
    Shouldn't make assumptions based on hobbies and interests, though, and your case demonstrated that very well. We have precious few regular female posters, it seems. There was "Beverley" but she hasn't been on here for ages.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910
    A fascinating thread in which a Remainer actually "gets it"


    "I totally understand this sentiment. I voted Remain & would do again. That said, a realisation I have come to recently is those who voted Leave simply didn’t want to be governed by the EU so any problems flowing from leaving are just obstacles rather than the calamity Remain sees"


    https://twitter.com/v_j_freeman/status/1445656278156529664?s=20
  • The public social media accounts of Cllr Tim Wills contain the standard fare of an enthusiastic Conservative borough councillor, with posts showing him canvassing for Tory candidates, attending council meetings and raising local issues. But on a private Telegram chat group, Wills reveals himself to be an enthusiastic supporter of Patriotic Alternative (PA), a racial nationalist and fascist organisation that seeks the removal of ethnic minorities from the UK.

    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2021/10/06/unmasked-tory-councillor-is-secret-supporter-of-uk-fascist-organisation/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Leon said:

    It's just a buzzword. If anything is wrong with the world - esp if you're a woman - then it's "the patriarchy". In the 60s it would have been "the system". Smash the system! Ten years ago "the man". Stick it to the man!

    In 5 years it will be replaced by something else

    BTW it's not just young women who use it, I have a couple of middle aged female lefty friends who use it, quite unselfconsciously
    Thanks. Interesting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Leon said:

    A fascinating thread in which a Remainer actually "gets it"


    "I totally understand this sentiment. I voted Remain & would do again. That said, a realisation I have come to recently is those who voted Leave simply didn’t want to be governed by the EU so any problems flowing from leaving are just obstacles rather than the calamity Remain sees"


    https://twitter.com/v_j_freeman/status/1445656278156529664?s=20

    He's got it.

    It's not hard, is it?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Eagles, for those of us not au fait with modernist nonsense, what is Telegram?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Selebian said:

    So, brief rant from me on jobsworths* gone mad:

    We've recently finished up with a round of masters students - they submitted their dissertations early last month. Normally, if they're reasonably competent - or think that they are! - they ask supervisors such as myself whether we'd be happy to provide references for employers. We generally say yes.

    We've just received guidance that requires us, if asked to actually provide a reference, to forward the request to the student admins who generate an automated report of module grades, attendance etc. And that's it. We're not supposed to add any subjective opinions. We're not supposed to add anything at all other than fact based things such as 'this person was also a member of committee x' etc or 'this person was an author on this paper'.

    We're also given a cover letter to use, which states that subjective information is not provided to protect our duty of care to the student and for data protection. It also disclaims any liability for inaccuracy in the data that are provided.

    To me, this is nuts. I know a fair bit about data protection (using highly sensitive data in my day job and having to justify the legal basis for that in data and ethics applications) and I can't see any issues here. Such a reference would be useless to me in deciding between candidates and the information will aleady be in the candidates application. It makes the whole exercise completely pointless. References are not a key part of recruitment**, but they can matter, sometimes you can read between the lines which gives you pointers for interview. Or they can help (my boss has told me that my reference from my former employer was quite eye catching - I've never seen it and don't know what was said, but she did say it stood out, presumably not in a bad way as I got the job.)

    The students who asked me if I'd provide a reference presumably expected more than this. If I'm contacted for a reference, I'm going to have to think about how to respond.

    Is anyone else aware of this happening elsewhere?

    *replace with 'woke', 'political correctness' or 'data protection' as appropriate
    ** there is an argument that they are pretty pointless, really

    The worry must be that, if it’s not happening elsewhere, that your students will be disadvantaged by such a standardised response towards a potential employer?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,973
    edited October 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Concerning "incorporat[ion of] aspects of international treaties into Scots law". Relevance doubtful; but not as irrelevant as your insistence that Spanish constitutional law is relevant. .
    It's slightly weird to see pipsqueak ex-Tory MSPs crowing about this when the parliament of which they were once members unanimously passed those bills ('Neither bill was controversial' to quote the BBC piece). Not for the first time I can't actually discern any coherence in their position.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,505

    English cases are thus -

    image
    image
    So, the 5-9s have receded as a risk for now. Good. Another one safely watched outside off stump.

    And little sign of 15-19 or 20-24 increases yet.

    Looking at the map the next incoming ball:

    Southern cases w/e 1/10 Vs previous +4600
    North and Midlands cases -2300
    Nations also look down.

    The next thing we want to curve down and stabilise is Southern England, particularly outside London.
  • They should have just banned the Welsh from playing rugby, it would have been no great loss.

    World Rugby is to introduce new laws at the 2027 World Cup that will ban red-green kit clashes to help people with colour vision deficiency (CVD). The measure means Wales or Ireland would have to change jerseys if drawn to play against each other in the tournament or in future fixtures.

    Over 300 million people worldwide currently suffer from some form of CVD. The condition is far more prevalent in men, with around one in 12 globally affected by the condition compared to one in 200 women. Red-green colour-blindness is the most common form and is experienced by around 8% of male rugby fans and 0.5% of female supporters.

    “From our perspective, if you’re potentially limiting eight per cent of your male audience, that’s a huge number of people who are suddenly switching off,” World Rugby’s research, turf and equipment manager Marc Douglas told the I newspaper.


    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/06/world-rugby-to-ban-red-green-kit-clashes-help-colour-blind-fans
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004

    Mr. Eagles, for those of us not au fait with modernist nonsense, what is Telegram?

    The internet's last stand against wokeness.
  • Mr. Eagles, for those of us not au fait with modernist nonsense, what is Telegram?

    A messaging app.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited October 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Is that the first time the Guardian have ever approvingly quoted Mark Littlewood from the IEA?
    Exactly. The Tories are now actively campaigning on the very opposite to what made the 19th their century. It’s a thing that makes you go hm. Are you sure?

    Then again, how long can Boris fly close to the sun with wings of wax? very low in the ConHome poll this week. PB Tories, who should have awoken from their afternoon nap, not on here defending or rallying around Boris vacuous speech from his out of touch world. He won a majority, but so did Maggie in 97. He currently has opinion poll leads she never had.

    Meanwhile Ed Davey response is nicely measured and will resonate more in this real world than Johnson’s echo from his parallel universe. “Boris Johnson might as well have made that speech in a parallel universe. Nothing for struggling families facing Universal Credit cuts and soaring bills, nothing for businesses on the brink of bankruptcy and nothing for our nation’s carers. Totally out of touch.”

    “there was no attempt to place the speech in any context, to relate it to what is happening in the world today.”

    “simple, populist narrative for the country. Broad brush optimism rather than any detail.
    But the danger of his approach is that the gap between the rhetoric and the reality for people becomes ever more stark, and he sounds increasingly out of touch.”

    How long until the punters start saying, the results are not matching the optimistic rhetoric?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Selebian said:

    So, brief rant from me on jobsworths* gone mad:

    We've recently finished up with a round of masters students - they submitted their dissertations early last month. Normally, if they're reasonably competent - or think that they are! - they ask supervisors such as myself whether we'd be happy to provide references for employers. We generally say yes.

    We've just received guidance that requires us, if asked to actually provide a reference, to forward the request to the student admins who generate an automated report of module grades, attendance etc. And that's it. We're not supposed to add any subjective opinions. We're not supposed to add anything at all other than fact based things such as 'this person was also a member of committee x' etc or 'this person was an author on this paper'.

    We're also given a cover letter to use, which states that subjective information is not provided to protect our duty of care to the student and for data protection. It also disclaims any liability for inaccuracy in the data that are provided.

    To me, this is nuts. I know a fair bit about data protection (using highly sensitive data in my day job and having to justify the legal basis for that in data and ethics applications) and I can't see any issues here. Such a reference would be useless to me in deciding between candidates and the information will aleady be in the candidates application. It makes the whole exercise completely pointless. References are not a key part of recruitment**, but they can matter, sometimes you can read between the lines which gives you pointers for interview. Or they can help (my boss has told me that my reference from my former employer was quite eye catching - I've never seen it and don't know what was said, but she did say it stood out, presumably not in a bad way as I got the job.)

    The students who asked me if I'd provide a reference presumably expected more than this. If I'm contacted for a reference, I'm going to have to think about how to respond.

    Is anyone else aware of this happening elsewhere?

    *replace with 'woke', 'political correctness' or 'data protection' as appropriate
    ** there is an argument that they are pretty pointless, really

    That's very interesting. In my new job, the one to which I successfully applied, they didn't ask for references at all.

    This is now simply something that's done by 'checking you out' online (maybe with a DBS search too) and reviewing your referrals on your LinkedIn profile and otherwise done entirely offline by private investigation of your network and reputation in the industry.

    Traditional references are dying out. It's also possiblyconsidered by some to be a bit unWoke and full of unconscious bias too, and therefore very non-U at present.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137

    In number of companies I know of, managers have been forbidden by the legal dept. from giving references. All request to HR.

    This includes personal references. Everything must go to HR.

    Several companies I've encountered don't even ask for references. They assume that the vetting company they employ will contact HR at each company you worked at.
    Interesting. That will be where it is coming from then.

    Means the end of references I guess. To some extent, who cares, they weren't that useful. But we still ask for references when appointing. If we're not going to provide useful references, we should not ask for them either.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    AH or JB?
    AH

    Mind you, I think it was Buchan who wrote that "there are certain things one cannot ask of any white man." But I still read him.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Eagles, ah. Ok.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Mr. Eagles, for those of us not au fait with modernist nonsense, what is Telegram?

    It’s an online private messaging system, similar to Signal and WhatsApp.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118

    As another male knitter, there is an odd prejudice out there. I have won prizes for my knitting at local shows, and design my own garments. My wife is a recipient of many fine jumpers.

    In one of my books is a lighthouse keeper who knitted his own ganseys all his life (a gansey is a traditional knitted jumper worn by fisherman around the UK and in the Netherlands). Historically, before framework knitting, men would be knitters in a profession.
    It is strange. I find knitting very mathematical, which is one of its attractions to me, and was also one of the attractions of this website. So I'd think more men would be interested in knitting if it weren't for the assumptions of gender stereotypes. And I do know another software engineer who knits - he has a bias to patterns with elaborate cables.

    I've always been welcomed into otherwise all-female knitting groups, though, and if I'm knitting in public strangers will often want to have a friendly chat about it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    edited October 2021
    Selebian said:

    Interesting. That will be where it is coming from then.

    Means the end of references I guess. To some extent, who cares, they weren't that useful. But we still ask for references when appointing. If we're not going to provide useful references, we should not ask for them either.
    References are a tool that's probably been ruined by legal eagles in all honesty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    Thanks. Interesting.
    The big difference, I suppose, is that social media means these buzzwords are much more prevalent: they spread fast and wide

    However they probably have a shorter life, thereby, as well
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    Selebian said:

    Interesting. That will be where it is coming from then.

    Means the end of references I guess. To some extent, who cares, they weren't that useful. But we still ask for references when appointing. If we're not going to provide useful references, we should not ask for them either.
    Essentially, the Goode Olde Days of references are dead. Killed by legal rules and fear of being sued.

    Not sure that what we have is an improvement. But hey....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Bonne chance with that
    Used to be the language of diplomacy, and Byron used to fire off letters to foreigners of all sorts and sign them Byron, Pair d'Angleterre, which I always thought was cool. But that was then...
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483
    Sandpit said:

    The worry must be that, if it’s not happening elsewhere, that your students will be disadvantaged by such a standardised response towards a potential employer?
    As I understand it, the law changed some time ago and references are no longer covered by qualified privilege. A lot of employers and other institutions have gone down this route.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    They should have just banned the Welsh from playing rugby, it would have been no great loss.

    World Rugby is to introduce new laws at the 2027 World Cup that will ban red-green kit clashes to help people with colour vision deficiency (CVD). The measure means Wales or Ireland would have to change jerseys if drawn to play against each other in the tournament or in future fixtures.

    Over 300 million people worldwide currently suffer from some form of CVD. The condition is far more prevalent in men, with around one in 12 globally affected by the condition compared to one in 200 women. Red-green colour-blindness is the most common form and is experienced by around 8% of male rugby fans and 0.5% of female supporters.

    “From our perspective, if you’re potentially limiting eight per cent of your male audience, that’s a huge number of people who are suddenly switching off,” World Rugby’s research, turf and equipment manager Marc Douglas told the I newspaper.


    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/06/world-rugby-to-ban-red-green-kit-clashes-help-colour-blind-fans

    Ok, fair enough, and are they going to lobby to extend that thinking to rainbow zebra crossings as well?

    Or is does empty virtue-signalling beat real inclusion in certain instances?

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/06/when-virtue-signalling-goes-wrong/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Password, I like darning my own socks. Also mended gloves and the hems of jeans a few times (though I'd need a refresher on blanket stitch now).

    I like the idea of knitting but haven't gotten around to it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    He's got it.

    It's not hard, is it?
    in the twitter-thread that follows, you can find other Remainers also slowly approaching this epiphanic conclusion. Encouraging. There are still, of course, plenty of Remoaners raging at her for even beginning to think that Brexit might be rational
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    That's very interesting. In my new job, the one to which I successfully applied, they didn't ask for references at all.

    This is now simply something that's done by 'checking you out' online (maybe with a DBS search too) and reviewing your referrals on your LinkedIn profile and otherwise done entirely offline by private investigation of your network and reputation in the industry.

    Traditional references are dying out. It's also possiblyconsidered by some to be a bit unWoke and full of unconscious bias too, and therefore very non-U at present.
    I’m hoping that, by the next time I apply for a CISO position, the lack of any social media profiles will be seen as a positive.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Is there some confusion in today’s covid numbers? Date of reporting vs date of test?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    A French MP has drafted a resolution calling for French to be made the sole working language of the EU.

    https://twitter.com/julienaubert84/status/1445665732813996036

    God, that's genius. Some French people really have zero self-awareness. I am sure the Germans, Italians and Spanish will be totally cool with that; and all the Nordics and Eastern Europeans, with their perfect command of English and zero knowledge of French, will be well up for it, too

    Delicieux
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    gealbhan said:

    Exactly. The Tories are now actively campaigning on the very opposite to what made the 19th their century. It’s a thing that makes you go hm. Are you sure?

    Then again, how long can Boris fly close to the sun with wings of wax? very low in the ConHome poll this week. PB Tories, who should have awoken from their afternoon nap, not on here defending or rallying around Boris vacuous speech from his out of touch world. He won a majority, but so did Maggie in 97. He currently has opinion poll leads she never had.

    Meanwhile Ed Davey response is nicely measured and will resonate more in this real world than Johnson’s echo from his parallel universe. “Boris Johnson might as well have made that speech in a parallel universe. Nothing for struggling families facing Universal Credit cuts and soaring bills, nothing for businesses on the brink of bankruptcy and nothing for our nation’s carers. Totally out of touch.”

    “there was no attempt to place the speech in any context, to relate it to what is happening in the world today.”

    “simple, populist narrative for the country. Broad brush optimism rather than any detail.
    But the danger of his approach is that the gap between the rhetoric and the reality for people becomes ever more stark, and he sounds increasingly out of touch.”

    How long until the punters start saying, the results are not matching the optimistic rhetoric?
    And where then the Tories? Will the situation be recoverable after one, two GE losses?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267

    Is there some confusion in today’s covid numbers? Date of reporting vs date of test?

    Extrapolating from what I'm hearing locally, an awful lot of the positives are from school testing. Any percentages on that?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Sandpit said:

    I’m hoping that, by the next time I apply for a CISO position, the lack of any social media profiles will be seen as a positive.
    All the advice I've had in recent weeks - from experts in the industry - is that you need to massively up your profile on social media and LinkedIn these days to win work. That's how it's done.

    I'm having a real problem processing that and working out how to respond, particularly since I increasingly detest social media and what show-offs most people are on LinkedIn.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,973
    edited October 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    AH

    Mind you, I think it was Buchan who wrote that "there are certain things one cannot ask of any white man." But I still read him.
    To moisturise?

    Yes, he definitely had something about him.
    Strange to think he was a fairly close contemporary of James Joyce, two (sort of) products of British culture. Did Orwell ever review any of Buchan's books, would be interesting to know what he thought of him?

    Edit: a quick Google suggests not.
  • He's got it.

    It's not hard, is it?
    True, but that cuts both ways.

    Remainers are not going to be persuaded of any Brexit benefits either.

    And the morality/integrity of each side cancels out- we're all terrible irrational people.

    So stand by for a decade of the status quo.
    Then a decade of something indistinguishable from EEA.
    Then "sod it, we might as well be in the room when the decisions are made" = rejoin.

    It's all in the age profile of the Leave vote. The postwar generation who voted out in '75, Leave in '16 and won't be voting at all in '36 or so.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Even the near abroad - he really isn't liked in Scotland.
    You can say that again. His disapproval figures are quite astounding.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910
    edited October 2021
    HYUFD said:
    Yesterday I hadn't heard of Zemmour. Now I think he might win the election, looking at the polling numbers.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Lol. I've had more sex with more beautiful women than you could ever dream to hope for.

    You're just a tedious troll.
    Oh Dear
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Dickson, if Labour mounted a recovery in Scotland that might be cause for concern with the Conservatives.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited October 2021

    All the advice I've had in recent weeks - from experts in the industry - is that you need to massively up your profile on social media and LinkedIn these days to win work. That's how it's done.

    I'm having a real problem processing that and working out how to respond, particularly since I increasingly detest social media and what show-offs most people are on LinkedIn.
    Interesting. I still figure that most companies don’t want the “rockstar” CISO who speaks at conferences, they want the utterly anonymous one who can shake the company into understanding the risks of the 21st century.

    Now, there will be publicity-hungry startups looking for the former, but an awful lot of more traditional businesses that need the work doing without the publicity.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,261
    IshmaelZ said:

    AH

    Mind you, I think it was Buchan who wrote that "there are certain things one cannot ask of any white man." But I still read him.
    You don't need to ask a white man anything, he'll tell you anyway.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    You don't need to ask a white man anything, he'll tell you anyway.
    That reminds me of the old joke, "You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910

    Lol? You? PB’s premier incel?
    Not quite sure how you can accuse someone of being an incel on a mostly anonymous internet forum.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,910

    True, but that cuts both ways.

    Remainers are not going to be persuaded of any Brexit benefits either.

    And the morality/integrity of each side cancels out- we're all terrible irrational people.

    So stand by for a decade of the status quo.
    Then a decade of something indistinguishable from EEA.
    Then "sod it, we might as well be in the room when the decisions are made" = rejoin.

    It's all in the age profile of the Leave vote. The postwar generation who voted out in '75, Leave in '16 and won't be voting at all in '36 or so.
    Wishcasting

    You think the French will let us back in after AUKUS?

    Dream on

    Also, the ratchet has been thrown entirely the opposite direction. The UK will slowly but surely drift further and further from the EU, legally, politically, economically, militarily: in every way. In 10 years time the idea of Rejoining will seem insane.

    Check the polling on EU membership in nations like Switzerland, Iceland or Norway. They really really really do not want to join

    "On average, Norwegian voters are strongly opposed to Norwegian membership in the European Union. Polling averaged over a 10-year period shows around 70% of Norwegians voters are opposed to EU membership."

    And the tendency has been for Norway to get MORE EU-sceptic over time

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations#Opinion_polling
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Mr. Dickson, if Labour mounted a recovery in Scotland that might be cause for concern with the Conservatives.

    Nope. They’d be bloody delighted!

    A SLab phoenix performance would be purely at the expense of the SNP. Which the Tories would adore.

    And switching SNP MPs for SLab MPs does zilch to challenge the Con Maj.
  • Who could have predicted the direction of the pb thread after Boris' conference speech would go like this?
  • And so we move onto the budget in 3 weeks where I expect Rishi to increase the minimum wage quite substantially and also adjust IHT and pension tax relief

    Then on to Boris leading COP26

    Boris has moved left to the dismay of @HYUFD and we should have a better idea of how the conservatives are being received by late November

    However, the worldwide gas price explosion must be the biggest worry just now and I would not be surprised to see Boris convene cobra to look how it can be mitigated together with other supply issues

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Dickson, Labour gaining seats and killing the strong attack line of voting Labour and dancing to the SNP's tune would be a substantial concern for the blues. Or should be.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    Leon said:

    Wishcasting

    You think the French will let us back in after AUKUS?

    Dream on

    Also, the ratchet has been thrown entirely the opposite direction. The UK will slowly but surely drift further and further from the EU, legally, politically, economically, militarily: in every way. In 10 years time the idea of Rejoining will seem insane.

    Check the polling on EU membership in nations like Switzerland, Iceland or Norway. They really really really do not want to join

    "On average, Norwegian voters are strongly opposed to Norwegian membership in the European Union. Polling averaged over a 10-year period shows around 70% of Norwegians voters are opposed to EU membership."

    And the tendency has been for Norway to get MORE EU-sceptic over time

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations#Opinion_polling
    Norway's over a trillion US $ in the black.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    And so we move onto the budget in 3 weeks where I expect Rishi to increase the minimum wage quite substantially and also adjust IHT and pension tax relief

    Then on to Boris leading COP26

    Boris has moved left to the dismay of @HYUFD and we should have a better idea of how the conservatives are being received by late November

    However, the worldwide gas price explosion must be the biggest worry just now and I would not be surprised to see Boris convene cobra to look how it can be mitigated together with other supply issues

    Squaring the circle of energy price rises and planet-saving, is going to be quite the conundrum for COP26.

    As soon as the general public realise, that the politicians all turn up in their private jets to double your electricity and gas bills this winter, expect there to be a massive backlash against it.

    It’s the most likely known unknown to take the PM out this year, kicked out by his party as the poll lead evaporates.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,211

    He's got it.

    It's not hard, is it?
    The flip side of that is another set of people seeing those who have imposed problems on them dismissing that entirely.

    Which is not so hard to get, either.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    edited October 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Oh Dear
    No deer involved - I hope! He said 'women', not 'does' ;)

    (If I'd used hinds then yes, some hind-quarters may have been...)
This discussion has been closed.