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YouGov MRP poll in “red wall” seats finds CON to LAB swing of 4.5% – politicalbetting.com

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    MaxPB said:

    On the last point, I've found the same. All it usually needs is for one person to say "enough" and suddenly the house of woke cars collapses. When I pointed out that the alignment groups were nothing more than company sponsored segregation by race suddenly all of those directors who were just going along with yet another American cultural import realised exactly what it was they were doing.

    That's what woke is, a house of cards which inevitably collapses.
    In my case it was one person rather than a process. Took frustratingly long to sort it as everything was done by the book, but no one at all supported the craziness that person was pushing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    edited October 2021
    Farooq said:

    I've worked straight through the whole thing, and you're welcome. I don't begrudge some people having won the work lottery. Not that it's been easy on everyone in your situation. Welcome back.
    I've been off work since redundancy 12 months ago. No income. Shame they did not furlough us.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    You've got to hide your love away
    Yeah, it's all so fucking TWEE though. Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da FFS.

    Norwegian Wood always sounds like a subscribers only number on pornhub.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    Leon said:

    Apparently Paul McCartney regards "Norwegian Wood" as the most perfect song he ever wrote. He penned it in about 5 minutes, complete. Like Mozart knocking out a sonata

    The Beatles are not my favourite band. That would probably be Led Zep. But I can acknowledge the scale of their achievement. They are to popular music was Picasso is to modern art. Just this great protean thing that overwhelms in the size and diversity of the creation, over time
    Norwegian Wood was mainly Lennon's, shirley?
  • Honest views of Sunak's speech?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band

    I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them

    Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled


    I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked

    Help
    Ticket to Ride
    Twist and Shout
    Norwegian Wood
    Get Back
    The Long and Winding Road
    Hey Jude
    Yellow Submarine
    Paperback Writer
    Across the Universe
    Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da
    When I'm 64
    Yesterday
    Here Comes The Sun
    And I Love Her
    A Day in the Life
    Eleanor Rigby
    All You Need is Love
    Love Love Me Do
    She Loves You
    Penny Lane
    Strawberry Fields


    There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more

    She's become a bit of a joke now, but Madonna was amazingly consistent in her day.

    Holiday
    Burning Up
    Lucky Star
    Get Into The Groove
    Like a Virgin
    Material Girl
    True Blue
    Papa Don't Preach
    La Isla Bonita
    Open Your Heart
    Live To Tell
    Crazy For You
    Like a Prayer
    Express Yourself
    Cherish
    Oh Father
    Keep It Together
    Vogue
    Human Nature
    Music
    Hung Up
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911

    Honest views of Sunak's speech?

    Never saw it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Yes, me too.

    A band or musician is considered notable today if they put out three or four famous songs.

    The Beatles' achievement (even if they are not my favourite band) is in a different league. I doubt it will ever happen again
    Each of The Doors, Dylan and Neil Young outclass the Beatles plus the Stones with a mile to spare.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911

    Norwegian Wood was mainly Lennon's, shirley?
    Was it? I might be mis-remembering, so my bad, if so. I definitely recall ONE of them saying it was their favourite song
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Scott_xP said:

    The whole soundtrack is sublime.
    Wow. I agree with you.

    What's happening?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,213

    I do feel strongly about this. Perhaps because I used to be a communist, and knew people who were affected by the ridiculous Berufsverbot (which meant that they couldn't even be engine drivers or nurses), I'm very sensitive about not imposing employment restrictions regardless of opinion - I would unhesitatingly employ a fascist or a Trump supporter if they didn't let it get in the way of their work. Their private opinions are none of my business, and I owe it to whoever I work for to select the best people, not people who happen to agree with me. Society is divided enough without creating new artificial divisions.

    For friendship, I would expect it to be a snag, but one that can be outweighed - my oldest friend has ranged from Tory to UKIP to BNP to (currently) Reform, but he's been a good friend for 50 years and we tolerate each others' views with amicable disagreement. There's so much more to people than their political opinions.
    Agreed.
    But would you date him ... ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    IshmaelZ said:

    Jesus Christ. I know it wasn't fucking Wings. Let's all have a big think though, shall we, and try to think of two things it has in common with Wings? Fill in the gaps: it involved Paul ____, and it was post the B_______.

    It must be fucking embarrassing, being you.
    Er... You're really the one embarrassing himself. Chill a little.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911
    IshmaelZ said:

    Yeah, it's all so fucking TWEE though. Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da FFS.

    Norwegian Wood always sounds like a subscribers only number on pornhub.
    You're on the sauce again, aren't you?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,674
    Selebian said:

    In my case it was one person rather than a process. Took frustratingly long to sort it as everything was done by the book, but no one at all supported the craziness that person was pushing.
    Which is very commonplace. One person has the agenda, makes it seem like it is inevitable and anyone who opposes them is made to feel racist/homophobic/transphobic (among others) and that way they ensure no one speaks up. With no opposition suddenly the company is doing stupid woke shit. If one person has that "enough" moment and raises it with HR, it's usually more than enough to derail the whole woke agenda as others will follow that lead and also speak up.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Well, I'll be stripping my Facebook account right back to the basics (deleting all old albums and posts) and changing my password after this.

    Sure, someone will probably still have all the data somewhere - but it will make it a bit harder.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    Does anyone under 30 have views on The Beatles without being an old fogey. It is like your forebears arguing about the best swing band.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    Brown and Blair: The New Labour Revolution on BBC2 at 9pm
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Farooq said:

    I hate to agree with you twice in a day, but yes. Led Zep.
    And yet, weirdly, not that great live, that often. Robert Plant is still magnificent live when he puts his mind to it.

    I'm not sure 'greatest ever band' is a lot of use as an idea. It's like saying greatest ever book or greatest ever recipe or greatest ever walk. There's a whole bunch of considerations and the most we can do is probably reach a consensus about a group of achievements in their field for different reasons.

    And so, yes, The Beatles for sure would be included.

    So too would Pink Floyd, for a number of reasons but Dark Side of the Moon would be sufficient.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278

    Well, I'll be stripping my Facebook account right back to the basics (deleting all old albums and posts) and changing my password after this.

    Sure, someone will probably still have all the data somewhere - but it will make it a bit harder.

    For personal data yes if you have some on there but not sure if they can do much with old holiday snaps and family and event photos
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    MaxPB said:

    On the last point, I've found the same. All it usually needs is for one person to say "enough" and suddenly the house of woke cars collapses. When I pointed out that the alignment groups were nothing more than company sponsored segregation by race suddenly all of those directors who were just going along with yet another American cultural import realised exactly what it was they were doing.

    That's what woke is, a house of cards which inevitably collapses.
    It collapses when the initiatives are actually scrutinised, but one of the unique features of woke thinking is that it tries to avoid scrutiny or debate. This was encapuslated by a Labour MP, who remarked "The very act of debate... is an effective rollback of assumed equality and a foot in the door for doubt and hatred". So people try and enter in to discourse on issues like transgender rights, for instance by questioning whether it is really correct that men at an early stage of transition should have the same rights as those assigned to women, just to find that they are immediately in the realms of unacceptable hate speech.

    This is a cultural revolution; and based on the comments I read on here, it is clear that people have a very poor grasp of it. It has been brewing for many years; but won its main battles in 2020 and those of us who oppose it are in retreat; fighting rear guard actions to protect the few remaining bastions of the old liberal order.

  • ydoethur said:

    Which is extraordinary when you consider how short hobbits are :smile:
    And the sub-title of The Hobbit is "There And Back Again", which literally suggests two films at most.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911

    She's become a bit of a joke now, but Madonna was amazingly consistent in her day.

    Holiday
    Burning Up
    Lucky Star
    Get Into The Groove
    Like a Virgin
    Material Girl
    True Blue
    Papa Don't Preach
    La Isla Bonita
    Open Your Heart
    Live To Tell
    Crazy For You
    Like a Prayer
    Express Yourself
    Cherish
    Oh Father
    Keep It Together
    Vogue
    Human Nature
    Music
    Hung Up
    Not a great fan of Madonna, but I appreciate her talent. However she generally didn't write her own songs, which is a pretty humongous difference with the Beatles
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,051
    Taz said:
    You can be genuinely funny sometimes Boris, you don't need to try so hard.
  • Leon said:

    Yes, me too.

    A band or musician is considered notable today if they put out three or four famous songs.

    The Beatles' achievement (even if they are not my favourite band) is in a different league. I doubt it will ever happen again
    Queen is the only band I can think of that has come close since and could have done as much of a quality catalogue if Freddie Mercury didn't die young.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    This MRP swing is significant. It doesn't take much to knock down the tory majority.

    My hunch is that the next GE will go a little bit like 1987 to 1992. A big majority will look as if it's going to be wiped out, then the tory tabloids will do their thing and see Bojo back over the line with a narrow majority.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    She's become a bit of a joke now, but Madonna was amazingly consistent in her day.

    Holiday
    Burning Up
    Lucky Star
    Get Into The Groove
    Like a Virgin
    Material Girl
    True Blue
    Papa Don't Preach
    La Isla Bonita
    Open Your Heart
    Live To Tell
    Crazy For You
    Like a Prayer
    Express Yourself
    Cherish
    Oh Father
    Keep It Together
    Vogue
    Human Nature
    Music
    Hung Up
    And, now, she can't sing for toffee and sounds like Sharon doing terrible Friday night karaoke down the Dog & Duck in Fratton.

    Lord knows what happened to her.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910

    My top six:

    The Living Daylights
    Casino Royale
    Goldeneye
    OHMSS
    Spy Who Loved Me
    Goldfinger

    Also, soft spots for Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, Thunderball, From Russia with Love and Live and Let Die. A View to A Kill if only for Christopher Walken.

    Die Another Day and Diamonds are Forever are embarrassing.

    Diamonds Are Forever has some interesting visuals.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    And yet, weirdly, not that great live, that often. Robert Plant is still magnificent live when he puts his mind to it.

    I'm not sure 'greatest ever band' is a lot of use as an idea. It's like saying greatest ever book or greatest ever recipe or greatest ever walk. There's a whole bunch of considerations and the most we can do is probably reach a consensus about a group of achievements in their field for different reasons.

    And so, yes, The Beatles for sure would be included.

    So too would Pink Floyd, for a number of reasons but Dark Side of the Moon would be sufficient.
    Led Zeppelin yes, but not much new material. Compare and contrast the Doors who were equally driven by proper trad blues material but wrote masses of fabulous stuff on top.
  • I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    Leon said:

    Was it? I might be mis-remembering, so my bad, if so. I definitely recall ONE of them saying it was their favourite song
    It's a great song.

    I think the comparison with Picasso is apt. If you listen to the songs from 1963 then those from just five years later it's a complete revolution in pop.

    Listen to music from 2016 or 2011, or 2006... and it sounds much like today's.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    rcs1000 said:

    IIRC, Yellow Submarine (the album) contains one of the Beatles very best tracks: Hey Bulldog.
    IshmaelZ said:

    Yeah, it's all so fucking TWEE though. Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da FFS.

    Norwegian Wood always sounds like a subscribers only number on pornhub.
    Possibly the next worse Beatles Song to Maxwells Silver Hammer.

    I even rather like Revolution Number 9.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    By the way, I thought No Time to Die was absolutely dire.

    Possibly the dullest movie I've ever seen and a good example of why an actor should never be allowed to get above himself and start dictating plots.

    It's the only Bond movie I would never see twice.

    Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911

    Queen is the only band I can think of that has come close since and could have done as much of a quality catalogue if Freddie Mercury didn't die young.
    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911

    And, now, she can't sing for toffee and sounds like Sharon doing terrible Friday night karaoke down the Dog & Duck in Fratton.

    Lord knows what happened to her.
    She got old. it happens to quite a lot of people
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    HYUFD said:

    Brown and Blair: The New Labour Revolution on BBC2 at 9pm

    Recording it - no spoilers please!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited October 2021

    Er... You're really the one embarrassing himself. Chill a little.
    Yeah, OK. But presented with a "point" like "C Moon was a b-side to a track that was banned by the BBC!" it is difficult to know how to react proportionately. I mean, WTAF?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Re. Wings and as Bond is in the mix, I take it the brilliant title track to Live and Let Die has been mentioned below?

    A stunning song.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910
    Love the tweet by Bonnie Tyler.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,852

    Well, I'll be stripping my Facebook account right back to the basics (deleting all old albums and posts) and changing my password after this.

    Sure, someone will probably still have all the data somewhere - but it will make it a bit harder.

    If login credentials have been leaked (even encrypted), doesn't that make it very difficult to bring back? As soon as they do, any easily decrypted accounts will be hacked.

    They'd have to re-verify all their users somehow. That probably wouldn't do much for their share price as it might become obvious how many are inactive...
  • Leon said:

    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
    Bohemian Rhapsody barely scratched the surface on their catalogue too. Their greatest hits but they had plenty more worth mentioning.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    lol

    I also missed out Something, Michelle
    I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911
    Heathener said:

    By the way, I thought No Time to Die was absolutely dire.

    Possibly the dullest movie I've ever seen and a good example of why an actor should never be allowed to get above himself and start dictating plots.

    It's the only Bond movie I would never see twice.

    Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view.

    You're fairly new here, you honestly don't need to add this


    "Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view."


    That is the raison d'etre of the site! And it's good to have you on board
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    Leon said:


    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"

    I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.

    Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Selebian said:

    In my case it was one person rather than a process. Took frustratingly long to sort it as everything was done by the book, but no one at all supported the craziness that person was pushing.
    One big reason I left my firm is because its owners have succumbed to the CRT belief that equity, not equality, is the most important policy any organisation can pursue - that is treating people differently depending on whether they're from a group that's structurally disadvantaged or not, and giving them a leg up if they are.

    It became very clear to me I'd never get on there and nor would I get any opportunities.

    Yes, I got another job - that's a big step up for me - after many months of looking. And, yes, I suspect my current firm is going down the tubes as it pursues weird peccadilloes that defy common business sense but it was still a unpleasant place to be in that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

    We haven't seen the last of it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    edited October 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Yeah, OK. But presented with a "point" like "C Moon was a b-side to a track that was banned by the BBC!" it is difficult to know how to react proportionately. I mean, WTAF?
    Just, er, let it be?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Leon said:

    You're fairly new here, you honestly don't need to add this


    "Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view."


    That is the raison d'etre of the site! And it's good to have you on board
    As I got hounded early on a few months back and felt like I'd been mauled in a bear pit I felt, and feel, it very necessary to qualify a subjective remark which might cause consternation amongst others. I don't want argument. I'm sure there are people who will love No Time to Die.

    Surely the raison d'etre of a site called political betting is, er, political betting?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    edited October 2021

    I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.

    I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.

    Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.

    Then everyone else.

    Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.

    In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    Heathener said:

    And yet, weirdly, not that great live, that often. Robert Plant is still magnificent live when he puts his mind to it.

    I'm not sure 'greatest ever band' is a lot of use as an idea. It's like saying greatest ever book or greatest ever recipe or greatest ever walk. There's a whole bunch of considerations and the most we can do is probably reach a consensus about a group of achievements in their field for different reasons.

    And so, yes, The Beatles for sure would be included.

    So too would Pink Floyd, for a number of reasons but Dark Side of the Moon would be sufficient.
    Floyd for me, not just for Dark Side, I prefer Animals even though Dark Side Is exceptional.

    Also Meddle, Atom Heart Mother, wish you were here. So many great quality tracks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911

    Just, er, let it be?
    That’s very good.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
    Queen had about a decade on the Beatles though! 72-91 playing 62-70?

    Got to say The Beatles did some great songs across every period of their career, from the straightforward early love songs (She Loves You, Please Please Me) to first signs of anguish (Help) to the latter rockier stages (Dont Let Me Down, I want You (She's So Heavy)

    I always liked Polythene Pam, referencing the yeah yeah yeah years with overdone scouse accent
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911
    Charles said:

    I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
    Let It Be!

    Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius

    And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDYfEBY9NM4


    Let It Be. 90 Million Views. It's just a picture of the Beatles

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004

    I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.

    Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.

    Then everyone else.

    In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
    I remember listening to Radiohead in school. Which was longer than 20 years ago :D
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Leon said:

    Let It Be!

    Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be.


    Or Madonna's Frozen (see below) ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    10 minutes in and already a stark reminder that Blair is basically likeable, and Brown is a self important bore.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    For personal data yes if you have some on there but not sure if they can do much with old holiday snaps and family and event photos
    That’s exactly what you need to keep off line. If you want to remain under the radar. Never give the Daily Mail anything they can distort
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.

    Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.

    Then everyone else.

    Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.

    In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
    Queen would be called populist but because virtually everyone likes them and has affection for them they are not called populist.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    Charles said:
    One watches these things and it’s 50% “this is Boris engaging the people in his inimitable way” and it’s 50% “what utter contempt he has for people”.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    Leon said:

    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
    Elton John, absolutely briliiant career and many many great tracks. Seen him once at the metro arena as was. He was great value. Played for two and a half hours.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Taz said:

    Floyd for me, not just for Dark Side, I prefer Animals even though Dark Side Is exceptional.

    Also Meddle, Atom Heart Mother, wish you were here. So many great quality tracks.
    Dark Side and Wish You Were Here are two of the best albums ever made. 68-70 were poor years though in my opinion. I loved Piper at the Gates of Dawn when I was a teenager, but it sounds a bit silly now. The Wall is depressingly brilliant
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,559
    The Beatles succeeded in the popular music equivalent of the SPL.

    Later successful artists had much more competition for chart success.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Recording it - no spoilers please!
    They both win. And they both lose.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?

    That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?

    Elton John, also. A phenomenal career

    I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
    I like Queen. A lot.

    But their output over 20 years before Freddie died did not match what the Beatles produced in <10. Another 5-10 years of Queen with Mercury would have been fantastic but would not have closed the gap imo.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    The Beatles succeeded in the popular music equivalent of the SPL.

    Later successful artists had much more competition for chart success.

    Not really true though.

    1967 was probably the peak moment for creativity in pop history. There were lots at it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Heathener said:

    As I got hounded early on a few months back and felt like I'd been mauled in a bear pit I felt, and feel, it very necessary to qualify a subjective remark which might cause consternation amongst others. I don't want argument. I'm sure there are people who will love No Time to Die.

    Surely the raison d'etre of a site called political betting is, er, political betting?
    Why on earth would you think that? What are you, a turnip?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    isam said:

    Dark Side and Wish You Were Here are two of the best albums ever made. 68-70 were poor years though in my opinion. I loved Piper at the Gates of Dawn when I was a teenager, but it sounds a bit silly now. The Wall is depressingly brilliant
    I saw the movie when it was released. It was rather disturbing.

    I haven’t seen it since but should dig it out.

    It’s a shame waters and Gilmour still won’t reconcile.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910
    edited October 2021
    maaarsh said:

    10 minutes in and already a stark reminder that Blair is basically likeable, and Brown is a self important bore.

    Blair probably would have won again in 2010, possibly via a coalition with the LDs. Then we might have had proportional representation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839

    Nah, it's pointless pedantry and petulant partisanship.

    Occasionally we do political betting as well.
    You missed ‘peerless punning.’
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    Leon said:

    lol

    I also missed out Something, Michelle
    And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,852
    edited October 2021

    If login credentials have been leaked (even encrypted), doesn't that make it very difficult to bring back? As soon as they do, any easily decrypted accounts will be hacked.

    They'd have to re-verify all their users somehow. That probably wouldn't do much for their share price as it might become obvious how many are inactive...
    Apparently the data being offered for sale is old and may only be profiles, so it probably isn't that.

    Rumour is that they have a routing failure. Unfortunately access to buildings depends on credentials stored on their now inaccessible servers, and all the staff use Messenger/WhatsApp to communicate. Nobody can log in remotely.

    This could take a while...
  • Leon said:

    Let It Be!

    Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius

    And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDYfEBY9NM4


    Let It Be. 90 Million Views. It's just a picture of the Beatles

    Tax Man? A song whose sentiment will shortly be due for a revival I suspect.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    Taz said:
    The production values on that make me think it's a GB News outtake.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    A very amusing, insightful and sometimes scary interview with a Pakistani Canadian:

    https://niccolo.substack.com/p/the-khyber-pass-interview-murtaza
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    One watches these things and it’s 50% “this is Boris engaging the people in his inimitable way” and it’s 50% “what utter contempt he has for people”.
    I think that’s Boris sending up Boris… so probably (a). I think. Of course he might think it’s convincing in which case (b)… but that’s inconceivable because…
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2021
    Taz said:

    I saw the movie when it was released. It was rather disturbing.

    I haven’t seen it since but should dig it out.

    It’s a shame waters and Gilmour still won’t reconcile.
    I’ve seen it dozens of times. Quite bleak really

    I think they have made up to a certain extent, Gilmour guested on Waters last tUK tour for Comfortably Numb

    Thought of animals today re Boris and the Pigs (3 diff ones)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322
    Heathener said:

    As I got hounded early on a few months back and felt like I'd been mauled in a bear pit I felt, and feel, it very necessary to qualify a subjective remark which might cause consternation amongst others. I don't want argument. I'm sure there are people who will love No Time to Die.

    Surely the raison d'etre of a site called political betting is, er, political betting?
    Those new lockdowns must be starting soon then? Look back to your opening posts to see why you were hounded. Mistaken identity as a troll.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Tax Man? A song whose sentiment will shortly be due for a revival I suspect.
    Paul Weller nicked it for ‘Start!’… and improved it I think
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099

    And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
    It is a well-recognised impossibility to finalise a list of the top 20 Beatles songs.

    A bit like travelling faster than the speed of light - as you get closer, time slows down.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    EPG said:

    I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).

    It should be very difficult to read that list, and still be saying Yebbut Ther Beatles.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    edited October 2021

    And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
    Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.

    It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.

    If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911

    I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.

    Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
    Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.

    This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)

    English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.

    English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.

    Jazz? lol

    Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans

    We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
  • Madonna? Justify My Love was well filthy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099

    Tax Man? A song whose sentiment will shortly be due for a revival I suspect.
    95% top rate? Hear those pips squeak!
  • I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.

    Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.

    Then everyone else.

    Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.

    In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
    With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.

    On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.

    If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.

    The world is going up in flames
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,152
    EPG said:

    I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).

    I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
  • isam said:

    Paul Weller nicked it for ‘Start!’… and improved it I think
    Even more shameless was Weller's nicking the intro to ELO's '10538 Overture' for 'Changingman'. I like Weller / The Jam, but some of his plagiarism was rather naughty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,580
    L

    Honest views of Sunak's speech?

    Beautifully presented smoke and mirrors.

    Watching the new Labour biopic, Blair sounds remarkably similar to Sunak. Has anyone ever seen them together in the same room?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    Leon said:

    Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.

    This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)

    English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.

    English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.

    Jazz? lol

    Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans

    We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
    It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    Leon said:

    Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.

    This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)

    English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.

    English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.

    Jazz? lol

    Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans

    We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
    BiB - that was Real Madrid, you numpty!

    But I do agree with you. I actually think the 2000s were alright for music, but the last decade has been pretty rubbish.
  • Charles said:

    I think that’s Boris sending up Boris… so probably (a). I think. Of course he might think it’s convincing in which case (b)… but that’s inconceivable because…
    Quite possible to be both at once. Something that is loved by the fans and winds up the haters. And I'm sure he had fun doing it.

    Works very well as long as the fan:hater ratio is roughly 50:50. Maybe even at 40:60.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Those new lockdowns must be starting soon then? Look back to your opening posts to see why you were hounded. Mistaken identity as a troll.
    Not really and that's typical of the (mostly male I take it) aggression that is quite simply unnecessary.

    I expressed concern that we were by no means out of the woods yet and yes I did pass on a comment from someone in the DfES that they were being prepared for further lockdowns.

    The situation is kind of okay but kind of not right now. We're getting by but it could go either way. We may yet be in for a very difficult winter.

    As I said back then, be delighted to find my caution is baseless.

    None of which means a 'troll' pile-on is edifying. Hopefully a broad spectrum of new people will be welcomed even when they present views that don't follow a certain style.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    Leon said:

    Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.

    This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)

    English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.

    English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.

    Jazz? lol

    Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans

    We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
    Modern formats don’t help, of course.
    The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.

    Now, Spotify.

    I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?

    It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    The Beatles track, All You Nees is Love, featured in the last episode of The Prisoner, purely because it was number one in the hit parade at the time.

    The Beatles also appear in the Dr Who story, the chase, playing ticket to ride.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
    He must love the Disturbed version, then.

    Which I think is so good that in years to come people will hear the S & G version and think "Why are these twats mangling this classic like this?"


  • Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.

    It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.

    If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.

    I think it's my favourite Beatles track
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,675
    Extension Rebellion are heading into some dark waters.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Beatles are underrated.
This discussion has been closed.