In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
It is a well-recognised impossibility to finalise a list of the top 20 Beatles songs.
A bit like travelling faster than the speed of light - as you get closer, time slows down.
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
It should be very difficult to read that list, and still be saying Yebbut Ther Beatles.
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
Let It Be!
Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius
And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
Let It Be!
Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius
And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs
Let It Be. 90 Million Views. It's just a picture of the Beatles
Tax Man? A song whose sentiment will shortly be due for a revival I suspect.
Paul Weller nicked it for ‘Start!’… and improved it I think
Even more shameless was Weller's nicking the intro to ELO's '10538 Overture' for 'Changingman'. I like Weller / The Jam, but some of his plagiarism was rather naughty.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
BiB - that was Real Madrid, you numpty!
But I do agree with you. I actually think the 2000s were alright for music, but the last decade has been pretty rubbish.
One watches these things and it’s 50% “this is Boris engaging the people in his inimitable way” and it’s 50% “what utter contempt he has for people”.
I think that’s Boris sending up Boris… so probably (a). I think. Of course he might think it’s convincing in which case (b)… but that’s inconceivable because…
Quite possible to be both at once. Something that is loved by the fans and winds up the haters. And I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Works very well as long as the fan:hater ratio is roughly 50:50. Maybe even at 40:60.
By the way, I thought No Time to Die was absolutely dire.
Possibly the dullest movie I've ever seen and a good example of why an actor should never be allowed to get above himself and start dictating plots.
It's the only Bond movie I would never see twice.
Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view.
You're fairly new here, you honestly don't need to add this
"Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view."
That is the raison d'etre of the site! And it's good to have you on board
As I got hounded early on a few months back and felt like I'd been mauled in a bear pit I felt, and feel, it very necessary to qualify a subjective remark which might cause consternation amongst others. I don't want argument. I'm sure there are people who will love No Time to Die.
Surely the raison d'etre of a site called political betting is, er, political betting?
Those new lockdowns must be starting soon then? Look back to your opening posts to see why you were hounded. Mistaken identity as a troll.
Not really and that's typical of the (mostly male I take it) aggression that is quite simply unnecessary.
I expressed concern that we were by no means out of the woods yet and yes I did pass on a comment from someone in the DfES that they were being prepared for further lockdowns.
The situation is kind of okay but kind of not right now. We're getting by but it could go either way. We may yet be in for a very difficult winter.
As I said back then, be delighted to find my caution is baseless.
None of which means a 'troll' pile-on is edifying. Hopefully a broad spectrum of new people will be welcomed even when they present views that don't follow a certain style.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Modern formats don’t help, of course. The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
He must love the Disturbed version, then.
Which I think is so good that in years to come people will hear the S & G version and think "Why are these twats mangling this classic like this?"
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
Certainly, but not the first time Simon has been too austere and joyless considering he was firmly in pop and not art music.
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
BiB - that was Real Madrid, you numpty!
But I do agree with you. I actually think the 2000s were alright for music, but the last decade has been pretty rubbish.
I don't think it's recency (dis)bias - the 2010s have been utterly atrocious. I mean there is stuff I do like from the 2010s but there's not all that much.
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
I think it's my favourite Beatles track
I’d have to say my favourite album is The Best of the Beatles.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Modern formats don’t help, of course. The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
Yes, absolutely
And Renaissance Italy had just the right eco-system for brilliant young artists. They had a base level of great expertise from church painting, then they had the Popes and Medicis, proudly commissioning artistic talent, and also the system of great masters teaching apprentices in their studios, plus a fractured polity which meant minor dukes and counts across northern Italy would all want their own new artists, thus encouraging further innovation.
But they also had something else: an incredible series of magnificent artists, one after the other. Something inexplicable. Dumb luck maybe. How the fuck did Michelangelo sculpt the Pieta in St Peter's, age 23?
I wonder if we will look back at the Golden Age of British Pop Music 1963-2003 (admittedly less exalted, but still important) and think Wow, what happened, all those genius musicians, one after the other, then...... it stopped
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Modern formats don’t help, of course. The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
Also, the great pop peak depended on having basically one shared pop culture. During the 70's and 80's, the audience for Radio 1 was about 25 million. That's down to about 9 million now, because the popular music audience has shattered into a dozen pieces that aren't really exposed to each other. There's more media space to fill, and probably more groups filling it. But it's much harder to get the whole nation's attention. And it leads to choice and opportunities and they're good things, but we have lost something significant on the way.
The album contains the track It's Only a Northern Song, written by George Harrison. For reasons only known to the band, it was released as (c) Northern Songs Ltd. Which caused issues later, when it was discovered that neither the Beatles, EMI or Apple Records actually owned Northern Song Ltd.
How did they resolve?
I think the owner of the company who had be inadvertently granted the copyright assigned it back, and was very good humoured about it.
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
I love some of Daptone’s stuff; it’s sad that Charles Bradley and Sharon Jones are no longer with us.
Amy was great, but ultimately (dare I say it), imitative rather than inimitable.
I'm so glad to have someone other than me bring up Sharon Jones in a music conversation! I know I led it there, but still I was lucky enough to see her and the DapKings at the Wilderness festival about 10 years ago. Have you seen the movie about her, Miss Sharon Jones?
I love that her guitarist is called Binky Griptite.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
I love some of Daptone’s stuff; it’s sad that Charles Bradley and Sharon Jones are no longer with us.
Amy was great, but ultimately (dare I say it), imitative rather than inimitable.
I'm so glad to have someone other than me bring up Sharon Jones in a music conversation! I know I led it there, but still I was lucky enough to see her and the DapKings at the Wilderness festival about 10 years ago. Have you seen the movie about her, Miss Sharon Jones?
I love that her guitarist is called Binky Griptite.
Oh, and have you seen the Charles Bradley movie, Soul Of America?
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
Yeah but the original bombed without trace and Simon and Garfunkel had split up. The reworked version went ballistic and launched their career.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
Offhand I can think of West and Minaj and Stormzy all having courted controversy against governments, some sensible, some dopey. You'll always have the banal figures like Drake. Plus there are genres that have huge roles for violence and criminality like drug-taking, and not just neutral analysis either.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
Please point me in the direction of great new music?!
The only excellent new band I have discovered in the last 5 years is The Gloaming. Sort of Gaelic Irish music and words mixed with system music from America - modern classical/John Cale chamber stuff.
At it's best it is brilliant. I cook along with it. They are fabulous live
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Modern formats don’t help, of course. The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
Yes, absolutely
And Renaissance Italy had just the right eco-system for brilliant young artists. They had a base level of great expertise from church painting, then they had the Popes and Medicis, proudly commissioning artistic talent, and also the system of great masters teaching apprentices in their studios, plus a fractured polity which meant minor dukes and counts across northern Italy would all want their own new artists, thus encouraging further innovation.
But they also had something else: an incredible series of magnificent artists, one after the other. Something inexplicable. Dumb luck maybe. How the fuck did Michelangelo sculpt the Pieta in St Peter's, age 23?
I wonder if we will look back at the Golden Age of British Pop Music 1963-2003 (admittedly less exalted, but still important) and think Wow, what happened, all those genius musicians, one after the other, then...... it stopped
You're on form tonight pal!
Spot on with the wax and wane of art art forms over time and place.
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
There that old line of Kingsley Amis about jazz going from Chaucer to 'Finnegans Wake' in a single generation - from a promising start to irredeemable obscurity and decline.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
It is the other way round for me, and that's due to barriers to entry.
Once upon a time you had to be able to play, and be really good at, an instrument, or be an amazing singer, to stand above the crowd.
These days anyone with a copy of Logic, which autotunes and quantizes perfectly, can make something acceptable sounding - that sounds like everything else.
Which leads to an enormous amount of "just ok" pop music that sounds perfectly palatable but is utterly forgettable. A McDonalds cheeseburger for the ears.
There is a great deal more "OK" at the expense of far less "great". And that is almost certainly a by product of greater automation in the music making process.
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
I love some of Daptone’s stuff; it’s sad that Charles Bradley and Sharon Jones are no longer with us.
Amy was great, but ultimately (dare I say it), imitative rather than inimitable.
I'm so glad to have someone other than me bring up Sharon Jones in a music conversation! I know I led it there, but still I was lucky enough to see her and the DapKings at the Wilderness festival about 10 years ago. Have you seen the movie about her, Miss Sharon Jones?
I love that her guitarist is called Binky Griptite.
I have not. I really must.
I am an absolute obsessive about soul music and so imagine my delight when I discovered this thing called Daptone.
One last thing from me about the Beatles, they are *not* served well by Spotify.
I find there is really no point to listening to any of their albums except Abbey Road and the White Album which have been remastered by Giles Martin and are Spotify-friendly.
Let It Be has had the same treatment and is due out later this year. He did Sergeant Peppers too but has decided it was a botch job and has pledged to re-do it.
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
Let It Be!
Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius
And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
Ffs - do you see 'woke' in literally everything?
You need to come to terms, this is a modern world.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
There that old line of Kingsley Amis about jazz going from Chaucer to 'Finnegans Wake' in a single generation - from a promising start to irredeemable obscurity and decline.
That's brilliantly true. A clever man, Kingsley Amis. Flawed, but undeniably clever
The biography of Kingsley Amis by Zachary Leader is superb. It may "authorised" but it does not spare any blushes. Amis was a fucker, in all senses of the word
The Living Daylights Casino Royale Goldeneye OHMSS Spy Who Loved Me Goldfinger
Also, soft spots for Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, Thunderball, From Russia with Love and Live and Let Die. A View to A Kill if only for Christopher Walken.
Die Another Day and Diamonds are Forever are embarrassing.
The Living Daylights Casino Royale Goldeneye
- all in my top five
I would Goldfinger to the list. Not sure what number five would be.
Most overrated Bond movie has to be Skyfall. Javier Bardem is brilliant, but the Sam Mendes balletic fight scenes were rubbish, and the whole final act was more Home Alone than Bond.
I have a soft spot for Die Another Day, if only because Toby Stephens curls his lip in a wonderful way.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
There that old line of Kingsley Amis about jazz going from Chaucer to 'Finnegans Wake' in a single generation - from a promising start to irredeemable obscurity and decline.
Fair enough, but I am going to posit that Britain is not at the progressive edge of jazz. Unfair comparison, but while Coleman and friends were fomenting free jazz the UK had "Midnight in Moscow" (which I like!). There is nothing wrong with the latter tendency toward nostalgia (I do like it!) but no different to the Scandis who love their jazz on the retro side (or to chaps discussing The Beatles in 2021!).
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
I think you should just let it be. Otherwise people will think you were born yesterday.
Let It Be!
Seriously. Fuck. How could I forget Let It Be. A beautiful beautiful song, moving and timeless, about a mother's love for her little son. If someone put that out today we'd all marvel at their genius
And yet I forgot it. That's how good they are. There are so many songs
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
Why should a genre of music move on?
If it has reached its pinnacle, then stay there.
The best tracks and the best artists in many styles are from decades ago. We don't expect continuous improvement of Mod or Ska or Northern Soul or House. We dust off the old vinyl and give it a spin.
I was reminded by the thread of Tom Wilson, whose unimpeachable CV as a producer includes both "Like a Rolling Stone" and "The Sound of Silence", as well as the debut albums of Soft Machine, the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), the Velvet Underground (! - not actually produced by Warhol of course), Cecil Taylor (!!) and Sun Ra (!!!).
I thought Paul Simon hated what he did to The Sound of Silence? The original recording was just acoustic and then the record company added heavy production without consulting them.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
There that old line of Kingsley Amis about jazz going from Chaucer to 'Finnegans Wake' in a single generation - from a promising start to irredeemable obscurity and decline.
Fair enough, but I am going to posit that Britain is not at the progressive edge of jazz. Unfair comparison, but while Coleman and friends were fomenting free jazz the UK had "Midnight in Moscow" (which I like!). There is nothing wrong with the latter tendency toward nostalgia (I do like it!) but no different to the Scandis who love their jazz on the retro side (or to chaps discussing The Beatles in 2021!).
What about chaps discussing Mozart or Bach?
I never understand the cringe against music produced a while ago. Great art is universal and timeless.
Having said that; it’s great to keep your ears open. Perhaps you can recommend some contemporary jazz classics?
No Time To Die will divide opinion. Soon, there will be two types of people in the world: those who love No Time To Die and those that don’t love No Time To Die.
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
There that old line of Kingsley Amis about jazz going from Chaucer to 'Finnegans Wake' in a single generation - from a promising start to irredeemable obscurity and decline.
Fair enough, but I am going to posit that Britain is not at the progressive edge of jazz. Unfair comparison, but while Coleman and friends were fomenting free jazz the UK had "Midnight in Moscow" (which I like!). There is nothing wrong with the latter tendency toward nostalgia (I do like it!) but no different to the Scandis who love their jazz on the retro side (or to chaps discussing The Beatles in 2021!).
What about chaps discussing Mozart or Bach?
I never understand the cringe against music produced a while ago. Great art is universal and timeless.
Having said that; it’s great to keep your ears open. Perhaps you can recommend some contemporary jazz classics?
There's no cringe - Coleman is good and so is Kenny Ball, even if Coleman is better! Merely to note that one cannot go out and see a post-lockdown gig in the UK in a genre critically dependent on live performance, and draw conclusions about the whole.
The album contains the track It's Only a Northern Song, written by George Harrison. For reasons only known to the band, it was released as (c) Northern Songs Ltd. Which caused issues later, when it was discovered that neither the Beatles, EMI or Apple Records actually owned Northern Song Ltd.
How did they resolve?
I think the owner of the company who had be inadvertently granted the copyright assigned it back, and was very good humoured about it.
Are you sure it was Northern Songs Ltd? Wiki seems to think that got very nasty with Lew Grade, Robert Holmes a Court et al getting involved
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
It's impressive that you have the expertise on contemporary jazz to know that it is currently lol. The rest not surprising because of your career as a writer, but jazz?!
I went to Ronnie Scott's recently, to see five of Britain's best jazz musicians on stage in one go (a kind of celebration of the end of lockdown). They did a nice set, of thier own music, but really it could have been modern jazz from any year since about 1980. Set down a neat tune, then everyone does their riffy little solos, then reassemble for the crescendo, then end. And repeat
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
Why should a genre of music move on?
If it has reached its pinnacle, then stay there.
The best tracks and the best artists in many styles are from decades ago. We don't expect continuous improvement of Mod or Ska or Northern Soul or House. We dust off the old vinyl and give it a spin.
I entirely agree. However the problem is that the music industry needs a constant supply of new stuff, to get people spending, so they punt out any old bollocks, year after year
There's an interesting comparison to be had with domestic architecture.
In terms of urbanity, and aesthetics, we have never equalled the Georgian or early Victorian terrace. Harmonious and beautiful. Yet architects want to make a name for themselves so they force new versions of domestic housing on us, which are invariably inferior, sometimes calamitously so
Just build bloody Georgian terraces and crescents, nicely but not overly varied, with leafy trees, and wide pavements, and mix it with shops and pubs and parks. Its not missile science. That's how you make nice places to live. You can also build quite densely in this form, there is nothing preventing it
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Depends how you define brilliant new pop music though, from a personal point of view I think the music is better than ever before - there is loads of it and it is all accessible immediately via the internet. Standards are much higher than they used to be. 25 years ago if you wanted to look for new music you would need to sit through hours of terrible unsigned oasis copycat bands, now you can find much more interesting stuff from all around the world on youtube. It is therefore harder and more challenging for bands to develop a niche and get noticed, and that is a good thing as it drives innovation and creativity.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
Ffs - do you see 'woke' in literally everything?
You need to come to terms, this is a modern world.
To be fair, sometimes it does seem relentless.
I asked for an exfoliating facewash in Boots this afternoon. The female 20-something shop assistant in there asked me all sorts of questions about type and product and I said I had no idea as I'm just an ignorant bloke who doesn't normally get the stuff and just wanted to just scrub my face.
She took me over to the mens section and managed to muffle something about "patriarchy" on her way over and about marketing of what's essentially the same product, which I politely ignored, and then asked expectantly if I'd feel comfortable in my own skin if I perused the women's section instead.
So I shuffled over with her and found it eventually (Clean and Clear, Johnson and Johnson) and she wasn't unpleasant but it was all a bit weird.
My wife thinks she was flirting with me but she seemed pretty serious to me.
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
With your inclusion of Wonder and Gaye (I assume!) I think some credit needs to be given to the 'Funk Brothers', the Motown house band that played on nearly all of their label's recordings.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
I love some of Daptone’s stuff; it’s sad that Charles Bradley and Sharon Jones are no longer with us.
Amy was great, but ultimately (dare I say it), imitative rather than inimitable.
I'm so glad to have someone other than me bring up Sharon Jones in a music conversation! I know I led it there, but still I was lucky enough to see her and the DapKings at the Wilderness festival about 10 years ago. Have you seen the movie about her, Miss Sharon Jones?
I love that her guitarist is called Binky Griptite.
On a related bit of trivia, in this video of Sharon Jones & the DapKings live, the bass player is Hagar Ben Ari - an Israeli born lady who now plays in the SNL band, who I met after a gig, made facebook friends with and turns out I share a birthday with, and who I saw mentioned on twitter this week because she was talking about male architects making buildings that look like dicks on SNL
The Living Daylights Casino Royale Goldeneye OHMSS Spy Who Loved Me Goldfinger
Also, soft spots for Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, Thunderball, From Russia with Love and Live and Let Die. A View to A Kill if only for Christopher Walken.
Die Another Day and Diamonds are Forever are embarrassing.
The Living Daylights Casino Royale Goldeneye
- all in my top five
I would Goldfinger to the list. Not sure what number five would be.
Most overrated Bond movie has to be Skyfall. Javier Bardem is brilliant, but the Sam Mendes balletic fight scenes were rubbish, and the whole final act was more Home Alone than Bond.
I have a soft spot for Die Another Day, if only because Toby Stephens curls his lip in a wonderful way.
Agree with all of that, except the last paragraph!
Presumably there is a commercial reason why pop music does not keep pumping out Beatles soundalikes for the teen-ager of 2021. The industry is hardly renowned for its Medici tendencies of extravagant patronage without financial return. Then it's just a matter of taste, and for older men to dislike pop music is a feature, not a bug.
I really like both The Beatles and Rolling Stones. But I think I prefer The Band.
I’m my view, Beatles and Dylan are god tier, and the Beatles have a slight edge.
Then you have (in no particular order) Bowie, Young, Marley, the Stones, maybe Stevie, Marvin or Prince.
Then everyone else.
Queen (really Freddy) were insanely good but don’t have the depth or breadth. They weren’t an albums band, either.
In the last twenty years only Radiohead, the Arcade Fire and Kanye have nudged at greatness.
You also forgot the other great lyricist - Paul Simon.
It was extremely painful to make the break, but I had to cut it off somewhere.
Paul Simon, Aretha Franklin, The Kinks, Led Zeppelin, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Pink Floyd, Smokey Robinson…I could willingly lose an entire day listening to any of them.
But I think the people in my top tier kind of transcend, create whole new genres or movements.
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
John Lennon famously said:
"Ringo Starr, not the best drummer in the world... not the best drummer in the Beatles"
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
John Lennon famously said:
"Ringo Starr, not the best drummer in the world... not the best drummer in the Beatles"
By the way, I thought No Time to Die was absolutely dire.
Possibly the dullest movie I've ever seen and a good example of why an actor should never be allowed to get above himself and start dictating plots.
It's the only Bond movie I would never see twice.
Happy to be disagreed with by others. Just a personal view.
I agree with you. I struggled early on from the age disparity between Craig and his love interest. I couldn't get past believing her to be his daughter. This wasn't helped by the construction of the film. In fact there's 20 years between them but he isn't aging well and the difference looks closer to 30 years, Apart from that the number of technical mistakes such as the CGI looking like it was done on the cheap and the product placement being intrusive it was a film with few saving graces. Having said that I went with someone who rarely goes to the cinema and she loved it (and thought DC 'stunning'
Yes, quite possibly true. They aren't up there with the Beatles in terms of immense catalogue, but if they'd been given another 5-10 years?
That was one of the eye-opening things for me, when watching the excellent Bohemian Rhapsody - Jesus, just how many brilliant songs did they do?
Elton John, also. A phenomenal career
I am sure I sound like a grizzled old fuck but I get the feeling we won't be watching a movie in 30 years which makes us say "Jesus, just how bloody good was Ed Sheeran?"
I think it's partly just that popular music has lost its cultural vitality.
Bands used to struggle with their second album because they had nothing to write about, but now it's all like that.
Yes, I agree entirely. Popular music has simply declined, in quality. The difference between now and 1967, or 73, or the early 80s, or even the mid 90s, is stark.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
Modern formats don’t help, of course. The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
Also, the great pop peak depended on having basically one shared pop culture. During the 70's and 80's, the audience for Radio 1 was about 25 million. That's down to about 9 million now, because the popular music audience has shattered into a dozen pieces that aren't really exposed to each other. There's more media space to fill, and probably more groups filling it. But it's much harder to get the whole nation's attention. And it leads to choice and opportunities and they're good things, but we have lost something significant on the way.
It's the same logic that leads to Somewhereism.
Radio 2 and Radio 1 are also virtually indistinguishable now as well - they had that prize ass Scott Mills covering for Ken Bruce a week or two ago. Both are really covering the same narrow segment of music, with a bit of a nod to the decent stuff of the past on Radio 2.
I honestly never thought I would listen to commercial radio, but it's Simon Mayo on Greatest Hits Radio on the way home from work now. I used to listen to Radio 2 or Radio 4, but PM has become beyond tedious, and the 5-6pm slot on Radio 2 has become poor music interspersed with a woman with a voice like nails on a blackboard and a laugh more irritating than Steve Wrights.
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
In other news, cinemas are back. Over here James Bond just broke the all time opening weekend record and in the US Venom 2 has done the second best October opening weekend ever. It turns out people like going to see movies on the big screen and escaping from real life for a couple of hours.
Shockingly half of the movie industry has bet against the big screen and are now going to have to row back on streaming commitments and give movies exclusive release windows again. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney extended their release window from 6 weeks to something more like 10 weeks ±4 weeks to match SPE. WB are buggered IMO as they seem to have permanently devalued their theatrical releases by promising streaming subscribers day and date releases without an easy way to u-turn that doesn't lose them millions of subscribers.
Good news.
Streamed movies suck. All the excitement is drained away when you realise you can watch it anytime / anywhere.
I see though that Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Get Back doco is happening now as a three parter on Disney+ (each part being 2 hours), though whether that’s because they can’t edit it down below 6 hours I don’t know.
Peter Jackson. Editing. I'm really not sure he understands the word or the concept.
Three two hour long movies. About a single recording session. For a 45 minute album.
Far. Too. Long.
Someone recut the Hobbit trilogy to make it a single movie. It was - apparently - much improved.
I started doing a recut of Spectre about four years ago, trying to get rid of that ridiculous campy spymaster and the whole Five Eyes subplot. It would have knocked about 25 minutes off the movie, and made it much more interesting.
I am sure you are right, and I confess that I haven’t even seen Hobbit or any but the first LOTR.
But I spent much of lockdown getting “back” into the Beatles after a 25 year hiatus, and so I’m very much looking forward to it.
As for Yellow Submarine, I’m sure nobody would consider it their finest work but even that one song has a kind of omnipresence in the nation’s schools.
And it has a great Ringo vocal, which is a near contradiction in terms.
But all their songs are like that. Ellurnur Rigby, Lalalalalalalalala. You could put them all in one album called OK School Assembly.
Laughably untrue. They were the first and biggest "pop" group to properly experiment radically with dissonance, unusual time signatures, weird new instruments, layering and overdub
So true: they paved the path that Radiohead later walked on.
The Beatles pumped out a lot of dross, but what is striking is how many good memorable songs they produced over their decade as a band
I bet most people here could name 20 or even 30 Beatles songs, and then hum them
Is that true of any other band, musician, performer in the history of popular music? I don't think so. Not even Dylan or the Stones. The Beatles' total catalogue is unequalled
I'm going to have a go without Googling. These are song I can remember, and I could hum right now, if asked
Help Ticket to Ride Twist and Shout Norwegian Wood Get Back The Long and Winding Road Hey Jude Yellow Submarine Paperback Writer Across the Universe Ob-la-dee, Ob-la-da When I'm 64 Yesterday Here Comes The Sun And I Love Her A Day in the Life Eleanor Rigby All You Need is Love Love Love Me Do She Loves You Penny Lane Strawberry Fields
There, that's 22 songs I can name and hum, in five minutes, with no Googling. Given half an hour I could probably add 10 or 15 more
That list is Nowhere man, it will mean she's leaving home to join the fool on the hill.
lol
I also missed out Something, Michelle
And Here, There and Everywhere. The most achingly beautiful of all The Beatles' songs. Girl and In My Life should also be on the list.
Nobody has mentioned “A Day In the Life” which may be the best thing they did.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
The Beatles are far and away the best band ever - I learnt guitar by listening to my Dad's record collection and going through his 3 books of 50 Lennon and McCartney songs. There really are so many fantastic songs, and there are a few filler songs but really not many.
The underrated songs
And I love her All I've got to do Things we said today I should have known better You've got to hide your love away It's only love Here there and everything
Comments
A bit like travelling faster than the speed of light - as you get closer, time slows down.
It’s the emotionally taut, soul-gripping and ultimately cathartic sound of existential ennui. If you listen to it properly, the last chord will leave you “shook”.
If you know it already, listen again just for Ringo’s drumming, which is amazing in its own right.
This isn't a Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be perspective, either. Art forms rise and fall (and sometimes rise again)
English Verse drama peaked with Shakespeare. It is extremely hard to say it has ever seen those heights again.
English lyric poetry peaked with Byron, Shelley and Keats (et al), and then came a slow descent. Hardly anyone reads poetry now.
Jazz? lol
Sometimes cultures are aware of their decline even as it happens. The italians knew that Mannerism, which replaced the High Renaissance, was a serious Decline and Fall. There was no one to replace Da Vinci, Michelangelo. Raphael - Italy in that era was, artistically, like Barcelona FC during Peak Messi, the team which now loses to Moldovans
We had 30-40 years of brilliant new pop music every year, and now we don't.
On a similar (soul music) vein. I think Amy Winehouse warrants a mention among UK artists of the last 20 years. I've never heard another British singer sing like that.
If you like Amy Winehouse's Back To Black you should check out the record company she recorded it with, Daptone Records, they've made so much good music.
The world is going up in flames
Watching the new Labour biopic, Blair sounds remarkably similar to Sunak. Has anyone ever seen them together in the same room?
But I do agree with you. I actually think the 2000s were alright for music, but the last decade has been pretty rubbish.
Works very well as long as the fan:hater ratio is roughly 50:50. Maybe even at 40:60.
I expressed concern that we were by no means out of the woods yet and yes I did pass on a comment from someone in the DfES that they were being prepared for further lockdowns.
The situation is kind of okay but kind of not right now. We're getting by but it could go either way. We may yet be in for a very difficult winter.
As I said back then, be delighted to find my caution is baseless.
None of which means a 'troll' pile-on is edifying. Hopefully a broad spectrum of new people will be welcomed even when they present views that don't follow a certain style.
The great pop peak (1963 to ?1997) was made possibly by the LP, which expanded the limit available to the pop “composer” but also set a limit of around 50 minutes.
Now, Spotify.
I saw a big billboard for the “new album” from some band the other day and I thought, album? ALBUM?
It was like seeing an ad for fax machines.
The Beatles also appear in the Dr Who story, the chase, playing ticket to ride.
Which I think is so good that in years to come people will hear the S & G version and think "Why are these twats mangling this classic like this?"
Amy was great, but ultimately (dare I say it), imitative rather than inimitable.
And Renaissance Italy had just the right eco-system for brilliant young artists. They had a base level of great expertise from church painting, then they had the Popes and Medicis, proudly commissioning artistic talent, and also the system of great masters teaching apprentices in their studios, plus a fractured polity which meant minor dukes and counts across northern Italy would all want their own new artists, thus encouraging further innovation.
But they also had something else: an incredible series of magnificent artists, one after the other. Something inexplicable. Dumb luck maybe. How the fuck did Michelangelo sculpt the Pieta in St Peter's, age 23?
How? How do you get that good?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietà_(Michelangelo)
I wonder if we will look back at the Golden Age of British Pop Music 1963-2003 (admittedly less exalted, but still important) and think Wow, what happened, all those genius musicians, one after the other, then...... it stopped
Aren’t they a different band with a large back catalogue ?
There's more media space to fill, and probably more groups filling it. But it's much harder to get the whole nation's attention. And it leads to choice and opportunities and they're good things, but we have lost something significant on the way.
It's the same logic that leads to Somewhereism.
You are wrong.
In my personal view.
I love that her guitarist is called Binky Griptite.
On the downside, I suppose that pop music always had a countercultural and rebellious element to it, but this has now been lost completely in the woke era. Pop music has become the establishment, which is a problem.
https://twitter.com/NewGranada1979/status/1445059655135154188?s=19
The musicianship was impeccable but the music itself was, to be honest, tediously predictable. Nice, but samey
I am not an expert but my friend who took me their was and is an expert, He reviews music regularly for top newspapers, he's so expert he's good friends with legends like Robert Plant
I told him my opinion of the jazz and he shrugged and sighed and said Yes, it's true, it hasn't moved on in decades, it is probably doomed
The sort of music that gets me changing channel on the radio.
The only excellent new band I have discovered in the last 5 years is The Gloaming. Sort of Gaelic Irish music and words mixed with system music from America - modern classical/John Cale chamber stuff.
At it's best it is brilliant. I cook along with it. They are fabulous live
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gloaming
Spot on with the wax and wane of art art forms over time and place.
All things must pass.
(Another great album btw)
(or a shit positing shit)
Once upon a time you had to be able to play, and be really good at, an instrument, or be an amazing singer, to stand above the crowd.
These days anyone with a copy of Logic, which autotunes and quantizes perfectly, can make something acceptable sounding - that sounds like everything else.
Which leads to an enormous amount of "just ok" pop music that sounds perfectly palatable but is utterly forgettable. A McDonalds cheeseburger for the ears.
There is a great deal more "OK" at the expense of far less "great". And that is almost certainly a by product of greater automation in the music making process.
Parodied years ago:
https://youtu.be/O_8S_7P7abM?t=110
I am an absolute obsessive about soul music and so imagine my delight when I discovered this thing called Daptone.
One last thing from me about the Beatles, they are *not* served well by Spotify.
I find there is really no point to listening to any of their albums except Abbey Road and the White Album which have been remastered by Giles Martin and are Spotify-friendly.
Let It Be has had the same treatment and is due out later this year. He did Sergeant Peppers too but has decided it was a botch job and has pledged to re-do it.
We just have to wait for the rest.
Or listen on vinyl.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIl6n_SRCI
Shaun Lintern
@ShaunLintern
NHS trust declares ‘black alert’ over unacceptably long waits for A&E patients
You need to come to terms, this is a modern world.
The biography of Kingsley Amis by Zachary Leader is superb. It may "authorised" but it does not spare any blushes. Amis was a fucker, in all senses of the word
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Kingsley-Amis-Zachary-Leader-ebook/dp/B00CP5UCLK/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=zachary+leader+amis&qid=1633381242&s=books&sr=1-2
Casino Royale
Goldeneye
- all in my top five
I would Goldfinger to the list. Not sure what number five would be.
Most overrated Bond movie has to be Skyfall. Javier Bardem is brilliant, but the Sam Mendes balletic fight scenes were rubbish, and the whole final act was more Home Alone than Bond.
I have a soft spot for Die Another Day, if only because Toby Stephens curls his lip in a wonderful way.
It's a very jolly evening on PB tonight!
If it has reached its pinnacle, then stay there.
The best tracks and the best artists in many styles are from decades ago. We don't expect continuous improvement of Mod or Ska or Northern Soul or House. We dust off the old vinyl and give it a spin.
Once PB goes down I know we're really in the shit.
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
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YORKSHIRE POST: Tory and Labour politicians’ United call to build HS2 in full #TomorrowsPapersToday
I never understand the cringe against music produced a while ago. Great art is universal and timeless.
Having said that; it’s great to keep your ears open. Perhaps you can recommend some contemporary jazz classics?
And you're right about the resemblance with Sunak. I think that's a big reason why I can't stand him either.
There's an interesting comparison to be had with domestic architecture.
In terms of urbanity, and aesthetics, we have never equalled the Georgian or early Victorian terrace. Harmonious and beautiful. Yet architects want to make a name for themselves so they force new versions of domestic housing on us, which are invariably inferior, sometimes calamitously so
Just build bloody Georgian terraces and crescents, nicely but not overly varied, with leafy trees, and wide pavements, and mix it with shops and pubs and parks. Its not missile science. That's how you make nice places to live. You can also build quite densely in this form, there is nothing preventing it
They will not stop until no more extensions are built in Britain, thereby saving a lot of energy.
I asked for an exfoliating facewash in Boots this afternoon. The female 20-something shop assistant in there asked me all sorts of questions about type and product and I said I had no idea as I'm just an ignorant bloke who doesn't normally get the stuff and just wanted to just scrub my face.
She took me over to the mens section and managed to muffle something about "patriarchy" on her way over and about marketing of what's essentially the same product, which I politely ignored, and then asked expectantly if I'd feel comfortable in my own skin if I perused the women's section instead.
So I shuffled over with her and found it eventually (Clean and Clear, Johnson and Johnson) and she wasn't unpleasant but it was all a bit weird.
My wife thinks she was flirting with me but she seemed pretty serious to me.
@JackPosobiec
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2m
All of US social media going down at once is what day one of a Taiwan invasion by China would look like. GPS too
He clearly knows that Biden won't do anything, which he won't.
Paul Simon, Aretha Franklin, The Kinks, Led Zeppelin, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Pink Floyd, Smokey Robinson…I could willingly lose an entire day listening to any of them.
But I think the people in my top tier kind of transcend, create whole new genres or movements.
"Ringo Starr, not the best drummer in the world... not the best drummer in the Beatles"
I honestly never thought I would listen to commercial radio, but it's Simon Mayo on Greatest Hits Radio on the way home from work now. I used to listen to Radio 2 or Radio 4, but PM has become beyond tedious, and the 5-6pm slot on Radio 2 has become poor music interspersed with a woman with a voice like nails on a blackboard and a laugh more irritating than Steve Wrights.
The underrated songs
And I love her
All I've got to do
Things we said today
I should have known better
You've got to hide your love away
It's only love
Here there and everything