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It looks as though Johnson will fail to get a US trade deal – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Liam Norton from Insulate Britain is challenged following the discovery that he hasn't insulated his own home.

    @susannareid100 and Journalist @DawnNeesom question why he hasn't insulated his own home but is putting his own life and others lives at risk by protesting.


    https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1440581477968666632?s=20

    Liam Norton from Insulate Britain walks away from the debate after clashing with
    @richardm56 over Insulate Britain's motorway protests.

    http://daytimelink.itv.com/GMB


    https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1440582975511412738?s=20

    That "abaht" was a bit too well-rehearsed. A Harrovian, perhaps a Haileyburian.
  • eek said:

    To avoid deadlock you do need an odd number of permanent members and I suspect when you look back to 1945 there weren't really that many other plausible alternatives.

    Since each of the permanent members has a veto there's no advantage to an odd number, as you'll never have something passing 3-2, and there are other non-permanent members of the Security Council who can make the numbers odd if desired.

    It made sense for the UK to include France, because otherwise Britain's position as a veto-wielding member would come into question.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Salt from the food we buy is that missing ingredient that makes it nice... Its laced into all ready meals, bread, everything you can think of. Oh, and in the your curry, pizza whatever. We don't salt our veg in this house, and don't miss it. Can really tell in other peoples cooking.
    It stands out most starkly for me when I make bread ("make" - shove the ingredients into a bread maker). At first it seems tasteless because as you say there is so much salt in everything.

    Possibly the most redundant item in peoples' households apart from their stash of bottled water is a salt cellar.
  • HYUFD said:

    Brecon and Radnorshire is still the LDs 23rd target seat ie higher than any LD targets in the Midlands or North East of England where the LDs also don't have any constituency elected representatives in parliament

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    They are not in the mix - just accept it
  • But losing the UK from their orbit was a massive kick in the nuts to the idea that it is only ever closer union. It is possible they could make the same mistake they made with the UK. But I suspect if confronted with "associate membership - or we're off", they'd fold.
    Not only that but once May was replaced with Johnson the negotiations to make Britain hurt absolutely and miserably failed. Instead Britain is going from strength to strength now and not looking back.

    Countries in the EU will be able to look at what happened with Brexit, see where mistakes were made, and what went right, and learn lessons if they choose to do the same.

    Plus of course few if any other EU members would have issues like the NI border and GFA to consider which has been the only real long term drama from Brexit. Brexit itself is going smoothly.
  • Mr. Mark, other countries leaving is a bigger step for them due to either their economic size, the eurozone, or both.

    The UK was always less into the EU (something eurocrats can be forgiven for misunderstanding given our disproportionally pro-EU political class) than every other member state.

    Greece still wanted the euro when it was crushing their economy.

    I think it's very unlikely other countries will have serious attempts to leave.
  • A trade deal with the US was always of dubious value because a red line for the Americans is access for their industrial agricultural producers, who British farmers simply can't compete with in the high volume, low quality segment (which is most of it).
    But the value of a trade deal doesn't lie in its effect on the bilateral trade surplus (otherwise they could never happen).
    The trade and current account balances reflect the decisions of millions of consumers and firms. As a country we would need to save more and consume and invest less if we wanted a current account surplus. But with floating exchange rates it's not something I lose sleep about, personally. I would rather we had a "better" trade balance, because it would reflect a more balanced economy with a better mix of jobs, but in the long list of ways that this country falls short of my hopes and expectations this wouldn't even be in the top 10.
    I agree somewhat (that the balance of trade is not critical). NZ has run a persistent trade deficit for 25 years and no one there cares, it’s not at all discussed.

    Doing so allows NZers to import lovely consumables and so you could argue it maximises overall consumer utility.

    Having said that, I do thing in the long term a trade deficit moves you to a “branch economy”.
    Systemic industries (like banking) in NZ are overseas owned and HQ’d.

    Secondly I think there are distribution issues, as exporting drives productivity which means better paid jobs.
  • Since each of the permanent members has a veto there's no advantage to an odd number, as you'll never have something passing 3-2, and there are other non-permanent members of the Security Council who can make the numbers odd if desired.

    It made sense for the UK to include France, because otherwise Britain's position as a veto-wielding member would come into question.
    Britain's position wasn't a question, Britain was quite rightly a major power of the time and despite many people (especially on the left) thinking little of this country we still are a major power.
  • The LDs are dead in Wales.
    It’s sad; I think it used to be their strongest region.

    They were very strong at one time and indeed we had a good friend who was a lib dem councillor and worked prodiguosly, indeed she was on two of my non political committees
  • I see that three migrants yesterday froze to death on the border between Belorussia and Poland - an example of what happens if Priti P deterrent strategies are really implemented, as Poland's rulers are doing. This seems to me a real scandal - yes, migration can be inconvenient and cause all sorts of problems, but allowing people to die of cold within Europe is a different order of magnitude that should be getting much more attention.

    I don't doubt there will be people undergoing hardship trying to cross into Poland but surely its far too early in the year for people to freeze to death ?

    IIRC the border between Poland and Belarus is forests and marshes not mountains.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    edited September 2021

    And they are now involved in litigation over this lady activist's 10 year banning order for wearing a T shirt
    You keep repeating this fake news, presumably because it's reported in the Mail or whatever. Others have referred to it as well - why was she banned? The T-shirt episode was just the icing on the cake, a mere slither of the whole.

    From what I can find out, she (Natalie Bird) led a prolonged and public campaign of opposition to Lib Dem policy over a number of years. In particular, she repeatedly argued that even if a man had fully transitioned to being a woman, s(he) was still a (biological) man, and therefore should not be allowed into women's refuges, again in particular. So basically she refused to accept that a trans man could become a woman (although she recognised the right of people to define themselves however they wish). There's more to it than that, but I guess it's sub judice.

    As a Labour Party chap, the actions of the Lib Dems don't seem unreasonable to me.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is ‘what’ the correct word to use?

    “What words have been added to Ofcom's 'offensive' list?

    Karen: A pejorative term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman

    Gammon: A term referring to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, associated particularly with right-wing brexiteers

    Libtard: A word used to describe people on the political left who are perceived to be easily offended, 'woke' and overly politically correct

    Snowflake: Someone perceived as too sensitive, easily offended and outraged

    Feminazi: A term used to describe an outspoken and radical feminist

    Boomer: An insult for baby boomers who are perceived to be out of touch and dismissive of younger generations

    Remoaner: Someone against Brexit perceived to be constantly complaining about it

    Terf: A 'trans-exclusionary radical feminist' - used to describe people who reject the assertion that trans women are women and are opposed to trans-rights legislation”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10015349/Gammon-remoaner-Karen-snowflake-words-added-Ofcoms-list-offensive-terms.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited September 2021

    They are not in the mix - just accept it
    Not only Brecon and Radnorshire but Ceredigion too, 30th on the LD target list and held by Plaid, are in the top 50 LD target seats ie all within possible range if the LDs had a very good night at the next general election.

    By contrast there is not a single Midlands or North East seat in the top 50 LD target seats, so the LDs are more in the mix in Wales still than they are in the Midlands or North East of England
    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137

    I’m not a health systems expert, but on the face of it, Lansley’s reforms seemed like a good way of decentralising the NHS and improving incentives within the system.

    It turned out to be a disaster, but I’m not sure why.
    It was full of perverse incentives.

    Take one example:
    Hospital discharges a patient, they return as an emergency admission within 28 (was it*) days then the hospital does not get paid for the return admission (and maybe the original, I forget). Thinking being that they discharged too early so should be incentivised to not do that by sending sick people home.

    Perverse incentives:
    1. Be over cautious about discharge - keep some people in hospital if they're at a stage in life where they may well come back within 28 days even if they don't actually need hospital care (bed blockers)
    2. GPs can bounce the patient back into hospital within 28 days of a dishcarge without the CCG having to pick up the bill (as the hospital pays instead)

    *when I was doing research in this kind of area, the reforms were just coming in/announced but not yet in place. These were some issue identified at the time, but some could be innaccurate or never actually enacted
  • Mr. Mark, other countries leaving is a bigger step for them due to either their economic size, the eurozone, or both.

    The UK was always less into the EU (something eurocrats can be forgiven for misunderstanding given our disproportionally pro-EU political class) than every other member state.

    Greece still wanted the euro when it was crushing their economy.

    I think it's very unlikely other countries will have serious attempts to leave.

    Sweden and a few other nations could potentially leave that aren't in the Eurozone.

    And there's the possibility that Norway and Switzerland could leave the EEA/EFTA respectively.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Government trying to undo George Eustice’s comments on Joe Biden being “wrong” to @KayBurley

    But listen to what he said: doesn’t feel like a slip of the tongue, even if it’s not an official government position
    https://twitter.com/kayburley/status/1440575160654856196
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,402
    edited September 2021
    eek said:

    To avoid deadlock you do need an odd number of permanent members and I suspect when you look back to 1945 there weren't really that many other plausible alternatives.

    No because when a permanent member votes against a substantive resolution, it is automatically a veto. The potential for deadlock is the same whether there is an odd or an even number of SC members.

    Though if we had to lose China as well, it wouldn't have been a tragedy. That was Roosevelt's mistake.
  • Obviously you have an absolute right to vote any way you like, but I don't think I'm going to expend energy battling with Rochdale Pioneers over which of us has the best chance of winning you over. The project to make hell freeze over is more urgent. :)
    Nick in most constituencies the answer to Labour or LibDem is "whichever has the best chance of winning". Both parties should run in all seats - I am not a fan of dodgy deals. But the targeting can be explicit - LibDem candidates in seats where Labour have the best chance should target Tory voters. And vice-versa.
  • Pret A Manger hiring 3k new workers and planning to double in size within five years:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58643647

    Is that the same Pret A Manger who we were told in 2017 couldn't survive Brexit because it is so dependent upon low paid immigrant workers ?

    The same low paid immigrant workers we're told who have all left the UK ?

    Any source for that (the idea that Pret couldn’t survive) or did you just make it up like all your other posts?

    I am pleasantly surprised to see Pret expanding given the blow they’ve received during Covid. I take this as a vote of confidence in the revival of cities.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    I don't doubt there will be people undergoing hardship trying to cross into Poland but surely its far too early in the year for people to freeze to death ?

    IIRC the border between Poland and Belarus is forests and marshes not mountains.
    You can get exposure and die from it in remarkably mild weather, if you don't have the right clothing or shelter.

    Trying to stop such tragedies was the reason behind the idea of getting people to make their asylum claims from refugee camps.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,524
    edited September 2021
    Cookie said:

    So what was she banned for?

    I don't think it's necessarily wrong for a party to ban members for expressing opinions. There have to be boundaries to what publicly stated beliefs are and aren't compatible with party membership. This is, after all, the process Labour is going through with anti-semitism. But it does concern me that the apparent belief that a woman is an adult human female is judged to be beyond the pale for Britain's third largest party.
    I don't know what she was banned for. But the idea that a liberal party has banned someone for wearing a t-shirt is so laughable as to be obvious that there is a lot more to it than that.
  • Yep. Which is why I am not remotely phased by the allegation that she was "banned for wearing a t-shirt". This is what the toxified culture war trans issue does - creates absolute straw man positions which both extremes fight over.

    Meanwhile in the real world, the issue needs debate and for a balance to be found.
    It needs something, but I'm not sure that debate is the word to describe what it needs. Fairly or not, the word debate is too tied up at the moment with ideas of getting what you want by using rhetoric to win the argument, where "win the argument" means 51% beats 49%. And that's what's getting us into this mess (among others) in the first place.

    Unfortunately, I don't have an answer beyond "wouldn't it be great to be nice to people for a change" and Douglas Adams fans will recognise what happened last time that was suggested.
  • Sandpit said:

    About bloody time!
    Yes, thank God for that. An end to queues on the M25, at last.
  • I don't know what she was banned for. But the idea that a liberal party has banned someone for wearing a t-shirt is so laughable as to be obvious that there is a lot more to it than that.
    It wouldn't be the first time that the Liberal Democrats have been justifiably accused of not being a liberal party.

    Considering this has come out and got them criticism its noteworthy that no more has been said on the matter yet.
  • HYUFD said:

    Not only Brecon and Radnorshire but Ceredigion too, 30th on the LD target list and held by Plaid, are in the top 50 LD target seats ie all within possible range if the LDs had a very good night at the next general election.

    By contrast there is not a single Midlands or North East seat in the top 50 LD target seats, so the LDs are more in the mix in Wales still than they are in the Midlands or North East of England
    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    With respect you are doing what you always do - trying to defend an indefensible position

    Maybe stick to English politics
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    TOPPING said:

    It stands out most starkly for me when I make bread ("make" - shove the ingredients into a bread maker). At first it seems tasteless because as you say there is so much salt in everything.

    Possibly the most redundant item in peoples' households apart from their stash of bottled water is a salt cellar.
    Yes, whenever we cook our own food, little if no salt goes into it. One teaspoon in the bread-maker bread. The stuff is terrible for you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,999

    Voting Lib Dem has had only one notable impact: propping up a Tory government that shredded the social fabric of the country and went on to give us Brexit.
    The biggest mis-step by Clegg and the Coalition was in demanding all discussion of UK in the EU be closed down for five years.

    If in 2010 Cameron and Clegg had stood in the Rose Garden, announcing that within the year the British people would be given the chance to vote again on our remaining in the EU, Miliband would have enthusiastically campaigned with them - and Farage would not have had time to get his shit together. Boris would have almost certainly stayed inside the tent, waiting his time. We would have voted at least 60-40 to stay, is my estimate.

    The LibDems gave us Brexit.
  • The biggest mis-step by Clegg and the Coalition was in demanding all discussion of UK in the EU be closed down for five years.

    If in 2010 Cameron and Clegg had stood in the Rose Garden, announcing that within the year the British people would be given the chance to vote again on our remaining in the EU, Miliband would have enthusiastically campaigned with them - and Farage would not have had time to get his shit together. Boris would have almost certainly stayed inside the tent, waiting his time. We would have voted at least 60-40 to stay, is my estimate.

    The LibDems gave us Brexit.
    Which is ironic since in 2010 the LibDems literally stood on a platform of having an in/out referendum to settle the issue. Then they ran screaming away from the idea the second they got into government.
  • TOPPING said:

    Pret anecdote:

    several years ago I used to have the chicken caesar and bacon baguette for lunch every day. Then I went away for a couple of weeks, came back and bought the same again. I could hardly eat it as it tasted as though it had been marinated in salt.

    Haven't had one since - there is a *lot* of salt in a lot of the food we buy.

    Hiring new workers? Fantastic.
    The 'traffic lights' data on food is very useful IMO.

    People can stuff themselves full of sugars, saturated fat and salt if they want to but they can't say they weren't warned.
  • MaxPB said:

    If the issue needs debate then why have the Lib Dems banned her from the party? You must be loving this new authoritarianism in the Lib Dems, clearly the ex-Labour members such as yourself are changing the nature of the Lib Dems already. Even Labour don't seem to be doing anything as stupid as this.
    *giggles* I do love some of these posts. It is alleged that someone has been banned from a liberal party for the sole crime of wearing a t-shirt. So why am I backing these authoritarians hmmm?

    Because its bollocks. I don't know the woman. I don't know the issue. The only reporting I can find are right wing newspapers reporting her line as she complains about it. I'll take that all with a large pinch of salt.

    Parties do not ban people for 10 years if all they did was wear a t-shirt. And if some of you clown-apologists lifted your head out from him bum crack for a minute for a breath of clean air, you'd realise how absurd you sound.
  • Mr. Pioneers, some people are quite fundamentalist on such things. It's led to idiocy like having biological men competing against women in sport (including, I think, MMA).
  • HYUFD said:

    Brecon and Radnorshire is still the LDs 23rd target seat ie higher than any LD targets in the Midlands or North East of England where the LDs also don't have any constituency elected representatives in parliament

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    Yeah @Big_G_NorthWales stop talking to us about politics in Wales. @HYUFD is the expert on Wales because he lives there and you don't.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    Scott_xP said:

    Government trying to undo George Eustice’s comments on Joe Biden being “wrong” to @KayBurley

    But listen to what he said: doesn’t feel like a slip of the tongue, even if it’s not an official government position
    https://twitter.com/kayburley/status/1440575160654856196

    Observations:

    1. The govt believes that the EU has a high degree of influence over the US/Joe Biden "..they are reading what the EU is saying about Northern Ireland".

    2. Look at where we are "trade to continue between GB and Northern Ireland" in terms of roadmap to unification. UK govt ministers have already separated out NI from the UK.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited September 2021

    You keep repeating this fake news, presumably because it's reported in the Mail or whatever. Others have referred to it as well - why was she banned? The T-shirt episode was just the icing on the cake, a mere slither of the whole.

    From what I can find out, she (Natalie Bird) led a prolonged and public campaign of opposition to Lib Dem policy over a number of years. In particular, she repeatedly argued that even if a man had fully transitioned to being a woman, s(he) was still a (biological) man, and therefore should not be allowed into women's refuges, again in particular. So basically she refused to accept that a trans man could become a woman (although she recognised the right of people to define themselves however they wish). There's more to it than that, but I guess it's sub judice.

    As a Labour Party chap, the actions of the Lib Dems don't seem unreasonable to me.
    It seems Marr does not think it is fake news nor multiple other sources and she is litigating over her ban.

    But then Rosie Duffield is so scared of going to the labour conference the Speaker of the HOC has to intervene
  • Why?

    Is NZ seeking to find some kind of Australia membership?
    Is Canada seeking to find some kind of USA membership?

    Why can't the objective of our policy be to become friendly neighbours of the EU instead?
    European market integration is fantastic, in my opinion, but I don’t believe in the case for a single currency.

    Therefore I favour an outer ring of closely integrated European economies outside the Euro.

    Call it associate EU membership, call it something else, I don’t care. The severing of the U.K. from the single market will see our economy fucked for years (cf the bet we have).
  • TOPPING said:

    Observations:

    1. The govt believes that the EU has a high degree of influence over the US/Joe Biden "..they are reading what the EU is saying about Northern Ireland".

    2. Look at where we are "trade to continue between GB and Northern Ireland" in terms of roadmap to unification. UK govt ministers have already separated out NI from the UK.
    On 2 that's nothing new. NI has been separated from GB since at least 1997.
  • Mr. Thompson, there wasn't a customs barrier between GB and NI until rather more recently than that.
  • Pret A Manger hiring 3k new workers and planning to double in size within five years:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58643647

    Is that the same Pret A Manger who we were told in 2017 couldn't survive Brexit because it is so dependent upon low paid immigrant workers ?

    The same low paid immigrant workers we're told who have all left the UK ?

    I'm not sure this is the good news you are spinning it as. By the time they finish this recruitment push it only puts their workforce back where it started. Pret's strategy is "last man standing" and it seems reasonable - the fall in city working / travel means less demand for twatty coffee which means other outlets will fail. As Pret don't have as strong a coverage as Costa, Staxfbucks and Nero, this is their chance to mop up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    isam said:

    Is ‘what’ the correct word to use?

    “What words have been added to Ofcom's 'offensive' list?

    Karen: A pejorative term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman

    Gammon: A term referring to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, associated particularly with right-wing brexiteers

    Libtard: A word used to describe people on the political left who are perceived to be easily offended, 'woke' and overly politically correct

    Snowflake: Someone perceived as too sensitive, easily offended and outraged

    Feminazi: A term used to describe an outspoken and radical feminist

    Boomer: An insult for baby boomers who are perceived to be out of touch and dismissive of younger generations

    Remoaner: Someone against Brexit perceived to be constantly complaining about it

    Terf: A 'trans-exclusionary radical feminist' - used to describe people who reject the assertion that trans women are women and are opposed to trans-rights legislation”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10015349/Gammon-remoaner-Karen-snowflake-words-added-Ofcoms-list-offensive-terms.html

    Not quite as snappy as George Carlin’s “Seven Words You Can’t Say On Television”, is it?
  • It seems Marr does not think it is fake news nor multiple other sources and she is litigating over her ban.

    But then Rosie Duffield is so scared of going to the labour conference the Speaker of the HOC has to intervene
    Big G, the fake news is the idea that she was banned over the T-shirt. That's not true. She was banned because of a number of episodes over a number of years, of which the T-shirt was a minor feature, as I outlined in my post. Why can't you acknowledge that?

    Mind you, I've no idea why I'm on here speaking up for the Lib Dems.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    On 2 that's nothing new. NI has been separated from GB since at least 1997.
    Hmm not as some would see it. Certainly not our beloved PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,636

    I'm not sure this is the good news you are spinning it as. By the time they finish this recruitment push it only puts their workforce back where it started. Pret's strategy is "last man standing" and it seems reasonable - the fall in city working / travel means less demand for twatty coffee which means other outlets will fail. As Pret don't have as strong a coverage as Costa, Staxfbucks and Nero, this is their chance to mop up.
    I went into Pret for the first time in a year and a half last week. They've dramatically reduced their range of tasty cakes. I had thought the reason I frequented Pret for lunch was cheap coffee. Turns out what was really motivating me was tasty cakes.
  • You can get exposure and die from it in remarkably mild weather, if you don't have the right clothing or shelter.

    Trying to stop such tragedies was the reason behind the idea of getting people to make their asylum claims from refugee camps.
    Death from a combination of hunger, hypothermia, exposure and exhaustion is certainly possible.

    It was the description freezing which seemed odd.
  • European market integration is fantastic, in my opinion, but I don’t believe in the case for a single currency.

    Therefore I favour an outer ring of closely integrated European economies outside the Euro.

    Call it associate EU membership, call it something else, I don’t care. The severing of the U.K. from the single market will see our economy fucked for years (cf the bet we have).
    Why?

    Why is the UK vis-a-vis Europe any different to Canada vis-a-vis the USA? Or New Zealand vis-a-vis Australia?

    Why is a trade agreement insufficient, why do we need membership but those other nations don't?
  • Why?

    Why is the UK vis-a-vis Europe any different to Canada vis-a-vis the USA? Or New Zealand vis-a-vis Australia?

    Why is a trade agreement insufficient, why do we need membership but those other nations don't?
    You haven’t read my post properly, as befitting an anti-EU zealot.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322

    Big G, the fake news is the idea that she was banned over the T-shirt. That's not true. She was banned because of a number of episodes over a number of years, of which the T-shirt was a minor feature, as I outlined in my post. Why can't you acknowledge that?

    Mind you, I've no idea why I'm on here speaking up for the Lib Dems.
    I think the take away for me is - if you can reply to this point, why didn't the Lib Dem leader, live on national TV? He must have known about it?
  • Cookie said:

    I went into Pret for the first time in a year and a half last week. They've dramatically reduced their range of tasty cakes. I had thought the reason I frequented Pret for lunch was cheap coffee. Turns out what was really motivating me was tasty cakes.
    However they are now doing a very nice vanilla milkshake.

    What’s with all the salt-bashing this morning?

    The Japanese eat a lot of salt and live to a ripe old age.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    TOPPING said:

    Observations:

    1. The govt believes that the EU has a high degree of influence over the US/Joe Biden "..they are reading what the EU is saying about Northern Ireland".

    2. Look at where we are "trade to continue between GB and Northern Ireland" in terms of roadmap to unification. UK govt ministers have already separated out NI from the UK.
    2 Direct rule from Westminster over NI will likely be restored in months given Unionist parties led by the DUP have said they will resign from the Stormont executive unless the NI Protocol is amended to remove the Irish Sea border.

    At that point with devolution in NI effectively suspended NI will be closer under Westminster control than Scotland or Wales politically even if not still in trade terms
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    Death from a combination of hunger, hypothermia, exposure and exhaustion is certainly possible.

    It was the description freezing which seemed odd.
    Probably a translation thing.

    Incidentally, if you get wet and don't have dry clothes or a fire, your chances of hypothermia go up immensely. The modern universality of wearing jeans makes this worse.

    The number of people who manage to get themselves into serious trouble, in this country, when walking on Dartmoor (or similar)......
  • *giggles* I do love some of these posts. It is alleged that someone has been banned from a liberal party for the sole crime of wearing a t-shirt. So why am I backing these authoritarians hmmm?

    Because its bollocks. I don't know the woman. I don't know the issue. The only reporting I can find are right wing newspapers reporting her line as she complains about it. I'll take that all with a large pinch of salt.

    Parties do not ban people for 10 years if all they did was wear a t-shirt. And if some of you clown-apologists lifted your head out from him bum crack for a minute for a breath of clean air, you'd realise how absurd you sound.
    I find it strange that you say you do not know the issue or the lady concerned, but then accuse right wing newspapers of causing trouble which is a nonsense when it was Andrew Marr of the BBC directly challenged Davey using the actual words and he had no response

    This interview was broadcast UK wide and other posters have commented on it

    And as for your last offensive sentence it does look like you are losing the plot as that kind of language is wholly unnecessary in any debate
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited September 2021

    Yeah @Big_G_NorthWales stop talking to us about politics in Wales. @HYUFD is the expert on Wales because he lives there and you don't.
    Just facts and I lived in Wales for a year when I did my masters at Aberystwyth which had a LD MP at the time and is still in the top 50 LD target seats
  • Cookie said:

    I went into Pret for the first time in a year and a half last week. They've dramatically reduced their range of tasty cakes. I had thought the reason I frequented Pret for lunch was cheap coffee. Turns out what was really motivating me was tasty cakes.
    I first went to work in London back in 1999. My first exposure to Pret and "JESUS CHRIST HOW MUCH" sandwiches. Whilst they have done well, they aren't remotely as universal in choice of locations as the big 3 coffee outlets / tax dodgers.

    They aren't remotely as well-distributed across the country as their competitors. Opening 200 new outlets is I suspect a push into the sticks as opposed to opening their 127th store in London. Despite the "big return to the city" spin. They would say that - the twatty coffee sector has lobbied hard to force people back into the office.
  • On NI, I don’t know whether Biden is right or wrong. Hasn’t he just said we can’t compromise they GFA?

    There’s nothing controversial in what Eustace is saying, the NIP as drafted and implemented is a fucking disaster, and it needs changing.
  • I first went to work in London back in 1999. My first exposure to Pret and "JESUS CHRIST HOW MUCH" sandwiches. Whilst they have done well, they aren't remotely as universal in choice of locations as the big 3 coffee outlets / tax dodgers.

    They aren't remotely as well-distributed across the country as their competitors. Opening 200 new outlets is I suspect a push into the sticks as opposed to opening their 127th store in London. Despite the "big return to the city" spin. They would say that - the twatty coffee sector has lobbied hard to force people back into the office.
    Why are you calling it the “twatty coffee sector”?

    Do you think people who buy coffee are to be looked down upon?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Probably a translation thing.

    Incidentally, if you get wet and don't have dry clothes or a fire, your chances of hypothermia go up immensely. The modern universality of wearing jeans makes this worse.

    The number of people who manage to get themselves into serious trouble, in this country, when walking on Dartmoor (or similar)......
    It’s the same the other way too. Only needs to be 30°C or so, before the body can get lethally dehydrated on a sunny day.
  • I think the take away for me is - if you can reply to this point, why didn't the Lib Dem leader, live on national TV? He must have known about it?
    Why would he? The complaints process is not something he is involved in as he said.

    And his response was spot on. The party believes in human rights and individualism so supports the "trans women are women" position. But it is not remotely absolutist and ramming a position down other people's throats - the issue needs to be detoxified and debated until a balance is found.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    I first went to work in London back in 1999. My first exposure to Pret and "JESUS CHRIST HOW MUCH" sandwiches. Whilst they have done well, they aren't remotely as universal in choice of locations as the big 3 coffee outlets / tax dodgers.

    They aren't remotely as well-distributed across the country as their competitors. Opening 200 new outlets is I suspect a push into the sticks as opposed to opening their 127th store in London. Despite the "big return to the city" spin. They would say that - the twatty coffee sector has lobbied hard to force people back into the office.
    Round where I live, WFH seems to have given the local coffee/sandwich shops more trade. Talking to people, they like going out at lunchtime, a change from cooking at home. It also helps protect the lunch break from evaporating.

    Perhaps this is a repositioning by Pret? Moving to where their customers are, now...
  • I find it strange that you say you do not know the issue or the lady concerned, but then accuse right wing newspapers of causing trouble which is a nonsense when it was Andrew Marr of the BBC directly challenged Davey using the actual words and he had no response

    This interview was broadcast UK wide and other posters have commented on it

    And as for your last offensive sentence it does look like you are losing the plot as that kind of language is wholly unnecessary in any debate
    To be fair, Big G, you know nothing about the issue except from what you’ve gleaned from the sudoku pages of the Daily Mail.

    This “issue” is just a pathetic gotcha by the media who are incapable of performing the role we need them to, which is to understand Lib Dem’s positioning on the current economic situation.

    Max was complaining last night that he doesn’t know about Lib Dem policy, and in part this is because the media - and even Marr - is too lazy to go into it.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Why are you calling it the “twatty coffee sector”?

    Do you think people who buy coffee are to be looked down upon?
    Because of their twatty complaining that the world changed taking away their built in customer base.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Round where I live, WFH seems to have given the local coffee/sandwich shops more trade. Talking to people, they like going out at lunchtime, a change from cooking at home. It also helps protect the lunch break from evaporating.

    Perhaps this is a repositioning by Pret? Moving to where their customers are, now...
    In the towns and more rural areas, more of the coffee/sandwich shops are locally-owned, than in London. As you say, this is going after that business.
  • eek said:

    Because of their twatty complaining that the world changed taking away their built in customer base.
    This doesn’t make sense.

    Some fantastic businesses have gone under during covid through no fault of their own.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    On NI, I don’t know whether Biden is right or wrong. Hasn’t he just said we can’t compromise they GFA?

    There’s nothing controversial in what Eustace is saying, the NIP as drafted and implemented is a fucking disaster, and it needs changing.


    The other issue, is that in the US politics, trade deals are not popular at the moment.

    Trumpets are protectionists. A large chunk of the Democratic party (especially the Left) believes that NAFTA sold out American workers and caused the rise of Trump.

    Given that the Senate has to approve any such deal (by 2/3rds), the Democrats have a bare majority and the GOP is proclaiming that they will block anything that Biden tries to do....
  • I'm not sure this is the good news you are spinning it as. By the time they finish this recruitment push it only puts their workforce back where it started. Pret's strategy is "last man standing" and it seems reasonable - the fall in city working / travel means less demand for twatty coffee which means other outlets will fail. As Pret don't have as strong a coverage as Costa, Staxfbucks and Nero, this is their chance to mop up.
    I'm not spinning it merely pointing out the irony of a business which is so dependent upon low paid migrant workers recruiting 3k new low paid migrant workers when we're continually told that the low paid migrant workers have all 'gone home'.

    As for the various purveyors of 'twatty coffee' the only thing I can say is that their ever increasing numbers exposes the bollox of 'austerity' claims.
  • I find it strange that you say you do not know the issue or the lady concerned, but then accuse right wing newspapers of causing trouble which is a nonsense when it was Andrew Marr of the BBC directly challenged Davey using the actual words and he had no response

    This interview was broadcast UK wide and other posters have commented on it

    And as for your last offensive sentence it does look like you are losing the plot as that kind of language is wholly unnecessary in any debate
    I have no idea who the woman is or her issue. When you google it you find the Telegraph and the Times and the Hate Mail reporting that she is suing the party. And that is all the coverage - no howls of outrage from when she was allegedly banned for wearing a tshirt.

    Because she wasn't. Others upthread who know more than I do have said what she has been on about. I assume she was banned for that, not the tshirt.

    And Marr? He used a live TV interview to try an ambush question. Kept going back to it when Davey swept it aside to talk about the actual issue. Kept failing to gain any ground.

    So yes, if you are a right wing newspaper worried about the Tory exposure in the home countries of course you will try and spin out a story that actually the liberals are illiberal and actually its that nice Mr Johnson standing up for women by betraying and dumping so many of them so why not forget your dalliance with voting LibDem and stick with the Tories?

    Its a non-story. People aren't talking about it outside a few stories in those newspapers from 1 side only. The party hasn't risen to it knowing the story hasn't got legs and this activist isn't going to find friends with her efforts.
  • To be fair, Big G, you know nothing about the issue except from what you’ve gleaned from the sudoku pages of the Daily Mail.

    This “issue” is just a pathetic gotcha by the media who are incapable of performing the role we need them to, which is to understand Lib Dem’s positioning on the current economic situation.

    Max was complaining last night that he doesn’t know about Lib Dem policy, and in part this is because the media - and even Marr - is too lazy to go into it.
    Again you insult rather than address the issue

    I do not read the daily mail and my source was Marrs interview that you simply try to blank out

    It is not going away
  • Why are you calling it the “twatty coffee sector”?

    Do you think people who buy coffee are to be looked down upon?
    Email ofcom immediately!
  • I'm not spinning it merely pointing out the irony of a business which is so dependent upon low paid migrant workers recruiting 3k new low paid migrant workers when we're continually told that the low paid migrant workers have all 'gone home'.

    As for the various purveyors of 'twatty coffee' the only thing I can say is that their ever increasing numbers exposes the bollox of 'austerity' claims.
    I rather suspect people about to lose UC are not prime Pret customers.

    You really are an arsehole.
  • Again you insult rather than address the issue

    I do not read the daily mail and my source was Marrs interview that you simply try to blank out

    It is not going away
    I literally mentioned Marr in my post.

    Do you know the actual story?

    No.

    Stop wasting everyone’s time.
  • Why are you calling it the “twatty coffee sector”?

    Do you think people who buy coffee are to be looked down upon?
    Hell no. The shops are twatty, not the people. £4 for a fucking latte is an egregious pisstake. Then insisting that you actually make a loss so pay no taxes is even more so.

    I have no problem with consumer choice and coffee shops will come and go. What has been telling over the last 18 months is how happy so many people have been with dropping the daily grind of pay lots of money to have a grinding commute and buying a £4 latte every day.
  • Again you insult rather than address the issue

    I do not read the daily mail and my source was Marrs interview that you simply try to blank out

    It is not going away
    It has already gone away
  • You haven’t read my post properly, as befitting an anti-EU zealot.
    Yes I have. You've said the UK should seek single market membership (as opposed to a trade agreement with the single market) as a foreign policy objective.

    But unless I'm very much mistaken you don't think New Zealand should seek membership of Australia, or the Canada should seek membership with the USA. Trade agreements etc are sufficient for them with their neighbours - why not the same with the UK?
  • Big G, the fake news is the idea that she was banned over the T-shirt. That's not true. She was banned because of a number of episodes over a number of years, of which the T-shirt was a minor feature, as I outlined in my post. Why can't you acknowledge that?

    Mind you, I've no idea why I'm on here speaking up for the Lib Dems.
    It was the issue Marr presented to Davey and Marr actually read the wording on the T shirt 'Woman.Adult.Human.Female' to Davey and he had no answer

    This was the catalyst of the controversy

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    I rather suspect people about to lose UC are not prime Pret customers.

    You really are an arsehole.
    Except in central central London, the majority of such jobs were (and probably are) done by UK residents, IIRC.

    This is why we have a labour shortage, not a labour absence.
  • isam said:

    Is ‘what’ the correct word to use?

    “What words have been added to Ofcom's 'offensive' list?

    Karen: A pejorative term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman

    Gammon: A term referring to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, associated particularly with right-wing brexiteers

    Libtard: A word used to describe people on the political left who are perceived to be easily offended, 'woke' and overly politically correct

    Snowflake: Someone perceived as too sensitive, easily offended and outraged

    Feminazi: A term used to describe an outspoken and radical feminist

    Boomer: An insult for baby boomers who are perceived to be out of touch and dismissive of younger generations

    Remoaner: Someone against Brexit perceived to be constantly complaining about it

    Terf: A 'trans-exclusionary radical feminist' - used to describe people who reject the assertion that trans women are women and are opposed to trans-rights legislation”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10015349/Gammon-remoaner-Karen-snowflake-words-added-Ofcoms-list-offensive-terms.html

    Those words will all be broadcast many times over the next year, they are not banned, just identified as offensive, so editors and producers consider the context. Generally they are meant as insults.

    Doesn't seem controversial to me. Anyone who disagrees is a snowflake.
  • Yes I have. You've said the UK should seek single market membership (as opposed to a trade agreement with the single market) as a foreign policy objective.

    But unless I'm very much mistaken you don't think New Zealand should seek membership of Australia, or the Canada should seek membership with the USA. Trade agreements etc are sufficient for them with their neighbours - why not the same with the UK?
    Australia and NZ are very closely integrated, and even have FOM. But NZ has not “joined Australia”.

    I guess US and Canada do too, not sure about Mexico and whether this is a NAFTA provision.

    I don’t accept your framing, it is bullshit.
  • I'm not spinning it merely pointing out the irony of a business which is so dependent upon low paid migrant workers recruiting 3k new low paid migrant workers when we're continually told that the low paid migrant workers have all 'gone home'.

    As for the various purveyors of 'twatty coffee' the only thing I can say is that their ever increasing numbers exposes the bollox of 'austerity' claims.
    Lets pick this apart. The absolutism you are putting out is the problem. Nobody has said that ALL the migrant workers have gone home. More people registered with the EU settlement scheme than the government thought were here in the first place.

    It is also true that the departure of migrant labour has created huge gaps in the labour force in a number of industries including leisure and QSR. With the culling of a stack of jobs in both smaller outlets and big chains there are people out there who still want the work and Pret are concentrated in areas easier to recruit for.
  • Hell no. The shops are twatty, not the people. £4 for a fucking latte is an egregious pisstake. Then insisting that you actually make a loss so pay no taxes is even more so.

    I have no problem with consumer choice and coffee shops will come and go. What has been telling over the last 18 months is how happy so many people have been with dropping the daily grind of pay lots of money to have a grinding commute and buying a £4 latte every day.
    Well, I like Pret.
    And have never paid £4 for a coffee.

    I guess your reference to tax is a swipe at Starbucks, who I’ll concede are selling disgusting swill at an astonishing premium.
  • Australia and NZ are very closely integrated, and even have FOM. But NZ has not “joined Australia”.

    I guess US and Canada do too, not sure about Mexico and whether this is a NAFTA provision.

    I don’t accept your framing, it is bullshit.
    US and Canada have free trade via the USMCA just like we have free trade with the EU via the TCA.

    That you don't accept the framing just shows you are in denial.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    isam said:

    Is ‘what’ the correct word to use?

    “What words have been added to Ofcom's 'offensive' list?

    Karen: A pejorative term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman

    Gammon: A term referring to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, associated particularly with right-wing brexiteers

    Libtard: A word used to describe people on the political left who are perceived to be easily offended, 'woke' and overly politically correct

    Snowflake: Someone perceived as too sensitive, easily offended and outraged

    Feminazi: A term used to describe an outspoken and radical feminist

    Boomer: An insult for baby boomers who are perceived to be out of touch and dismissive of younger generations

    Remoaner: Someone against Brexit perceived to be constantly complaining about it

    Terf: A 'trans-exclusionary radical feminist' - used to describe people who reject the assertion that trans women are women and are opposed to trans-rights legislation”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10015349/Gammon-remoaner-Karen-snowflake-words-added-Ofcoms-list-offensive-terms.html

    The one I can't abide is Karen. What have Karens done to deserve this?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited September 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Just facts and I lived in Wales for a year when I did my masters at Aberystwyth which had a LD MP at the time and is still in the top 50 LD target seats
    You lived in Wales for a year when you did your degree and that makes you an expert on politics in Wales in 2021 v someone who has lived in Wales for 56 years, has children and grandchildren requiring the Wales NHS and schooling and myriads of other issues

    As I said before stick to English politics
  • Sandpit said:

    In the towns and more rural areas, more of the coffee/sandwich shops are locally-owned, than in London. As you say, this is going after that business.
    It is totally this. Pret spun the story with "Tuesday - Thursday are our busiest days for their city outlets. That isn't good - shows the hollowing out of full time office work. However hard they lobby for the return to the office that world has gone and isn't coming back to the extent it was.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,053
    HYUFD said:

    Not only Brecon and Radnorshire but Ceredigion too, 30th on the LD target list and held by Plaid, are in the top 50 LD target seats ie all within possible range if the LDs had a very good night at the next general election.

    By contrast there is not a single Midlands or North East seat in the top 50 LD target seats, so the LDs are more in the mix in Wales still than they are in the Midlands or North East of England
    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    Anything over the top 20 targets is just a pipe dream.
  • US and Canada have free trade via the USMCA just like we have free trade with the EU via the TCA.

    That you don't accept the framing just shows you are in denial.
    A single market, as you should know (but who knows, you are deliberately obtuse most of the time) > a standard trade agreement.

    As Thatcher well understood.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,636

    Well, I like Pret.
    And have never paid £4 for a coffee.

    I guess your reference to tax is a swipe at Starbucks, who I’ll concede are selling disgusting swill at an astonishing premium.
    Indeed, the advantage of Pret is that it sells a normal cup of filter coffee, quite cheaply (£1, I think).
    One of my most frequent interactions in buying coffee is as follows:

    Cookie: Can I have a cup of coffee please. Just a normal filter coffee.
    Barista: Americano?
    Cookie (silently, in head): NO! Just a normal filter coffee. The simplest coffee drink to prepare. Not a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you a minute to prepare and cost me twice as much. Just coffee.
    Cookie (out loud): Ok.

    Other pet hate about coffee - frothy milk in the top.

  • I literally mentioned Marr in my post.

    Do you know the actual story?

    No.

    Stop wasting everyone’s time.
    I will speak as I wish and will not be closed down by those who are trying to blank out the story
  • I will speak as I wish and will not be closed down by those who are trying to blank out the story
    The point is, you are manufacturing a story.
  • A single market, as you should know (but who knows, you are deliberately obtuse most of the time) > a standard trade agreement.

    As Thatcher well understood.
    And yet you don't advocate Canada joining a Single Market with the USA. Why?

    At the time that Thatcher sought a Single Market the European nations were in the words of Thatcher the 'richest and most prosperous people' in the planet, 'richer even than the USA'. Fast forward the better part of half a century later and the facts have changed. The EU isn't richer than the USA, its barely seven tenths of the USA in size. The richest and most prosperous people are now across the planet and not in Europe so we should pivot to deal with the world as it exists today not the world that existed four decades ago.

    When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The one I can't abide is Karen. What have Karens done to deserve this?
    It’s not good when actual names become verboten or offensive. Also feel sorry for anyone called Alexa.
  • It was the issue Marr presented to Davey and Marr actually read the wording on the T shirt 'Woman.Adult.Human.Female' to Davey and he had no answer

    This was the catalyst of the controversy

    I'm not sure what Davey was supposed to say when someone says 4 words to him. He said himself he wasn't involved in the disciplinary case.
  • I note the French Embassy has diplomatically removed the description of the Telegraph as an 'English tabloid' in its translation of the Elysée's tweet

    https://twitter.com/LocalFR_Emma/status/1440599474695405573?s=20

  • And yet you don't advocate Canada joining a Single Market with the USA. Why?

    At the time that Thatcher sought a Single Market the European nations were in the words of Thatcher the 'richest and most prosperous people' in the planet, 'richer even than the USA'. Fast forward the better part of half a century later and the facts have changed. The EU isn't richer than the USA, its barely seven tenths of the USA in size. The richest and most prosperous people are now across the planet and not in Europe so we should pivot to deal with the world as it exists today not the world that existed four decades ago.

    When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
    I would advocate a single market between Canada and the US.

    As for your stuff about the EU, you can huff and puff all you like but Europe is on our doorstep and economics 101 is that you are going to trade with your neighbours.

    The idea that Britain can tow itself to somewhere just east of Malacca is cloud cuckoo land.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited September 2021
    Background - from her Crowdfunding page - on the LibDem T-shirt lady:

    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/natalie-bird-legal-fund/

    And from earlier:

    A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

    Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,636
    Sandpit said:

    In the towns and more rural areas, more of the coffee/sandwich shops are locally-owned, than in London. As you say, this is going after that business.
    One of the things I love about wfh is being able to patronise the local sandwich shops and coffee shops - the food is better and more interesting, you get to know the proprietors, and you get a vague feeling of satisfaction that the £4 you have just spent on a coffee and a cake isn't frittered away on an indulgence, it's Supporting The Local Economy.
  • I note the French Embassy has diplomatically removed the description of the Telegraph as an 'English tabloid' in its translation of the Elysée's tweet

    https://twitter.com/LocalFR_Emma/status/1440599474695405573?s=20

    Interesting denial but hardly surprising
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322

    I'm not sure what Davey was supposed to say when someone says 4 words to him. He said himself he wasn't involved in the disciplinary case.
    How about - "its more complex than it looks, there is a wider context and I am not involved in the disciplinary process".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,774
    edited September 2021
    This rather undermines the whole point of Brexit.

    There is no point to Brexit. People who haven't realised that by now never will. There's rhetoric about Brexit that sounds somewhat plausible but none of the rationales withstand serious scrutiny.
  • Background - from her Crowdfunding page - on the LibDem T-shirt lady:

    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/natalie-bird-legal-fund/

    And from earlier:

    A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

    Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

    Maybe those saying it is a non story should read this article
  • Well, I like Pret.
    And have never paid £4 for a coffee.

    I guess your reference to tax is a swipe at Starbucks, who I’ll concede are selling disgusting swill at an astonishing premium.
    The irony is that Starbucks, terrible as they are in many ways, have probably got a better handle on the coffee shop as a place to go and take a break from working at home for a bit, rather than the rushed grab'n'go takeaway thing.
  • Maybe those saying it is a non story should read this article
    I thought she was banned because she was extending her belief to men who had transitioned medically, rather than by just saying.
This discussion has been closed.