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Foreign affairs and laying Michael Gove – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 22 in General
imageForeign affairs and laying Michael Gove – politicalbetting.com

Inevitably there is now a market up on the next Foreign Secretary and this market from Smarkets is worth a look (even if there’s next to no liquidity in it.)

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,497
    Ooh, first! Good morning everyone.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,027
    Second, there's plenty of wannabees for the job (particularly from MOD portfolio holders). Its a sign of how the UK has slipped in the world (and FCDO is in a mess) that Foreign Sec has been filled by such lacklustre and poor politicians. I feel that Raab's woes echo that of the FCDO unloved, under-resourced and without a decent strategy - in spite of wordy pronouncements and Reviews that actually mean very little in real terms.....
  • Raab and Patel won't go because the calls for them to do so are coming from opponents of the government. The things they are accused of doing / not doing are related to circumstances beyond their control in the era of 24 hour news and social media echo chambers. It's froth and Conservative members don't see this as a hanging offence. Move on.

    Or something like that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,878
    edited August 22
    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586

    Raab and Patel won't go because the calls for them to do so are coming from opponents of the government. The things they are accused of doing / not doing are related to circumstances beyond their control in the era of 24 hour news and social media echo chambers. It's froth and Conservative members don't see this as a hanging offence. Move on.

    Or something like that.

    A lot of Tories want Raab out, including several ministers quoted in the Sun,
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    Meanwhile, New York is about to be hit by a hurricane….
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,854
    edited August 22
    Firstish.

    (Very ish)

    Morning all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    CNN: The Taliban's newfound American arsenal is likely not limited to small arms, as the group captured sizable stockpiles of weapons and vehicles held at strongholds once controlled by US-backed forces, including modern mine-resistant vehicles (MRAPs) and Humvees.

    Initial estimates suggest the Taliban may now also possess several Black Hawk helicopters and other US-funded military aircraft, according to a congressional source…That potentially includes roughly 20 A-29 Tucano attack planes, the source said, noting there are some indications that only a small number of aircraft were relocated from a base in Kandahar before it was overrun by the Taliban..

    Between 2013 and 2016, the US gave Afghan forces more than 600,000 light weapons, such as M16 and M4 rifles and nearly 80,000 vehicles, as well as night vision goggles, radios and more, according to a 2017 Government Accountability Office report. Even more recently, the US Defense Department supplied the Afghan military with 7,000 machine guns, 4,700 Humvees and more than 20,000 grenades between 2017 and 2019, In the last two years alone, the US has also given the Afghan military more than 18 million rounds of 7.62mm and .50-caliber ammunition..

    While the Taliban can certainly make immediate use of US-made small arms and armored vehicles, officials are skeptical they can turn American aircraft into a viable fighting unit.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,398
    Good morning, everyone.

    Excellent news: I finished Polybius off last night and will shortly start writing up an exciting blog on the subject.

    If Gove is the one pushing ID cards I hope his career falls off a cliff.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946

    Roger said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Just catching up having been away. A couple of comments if I may:

    1. Lovely to see so many Tories campaigning so vigorously for significant rises in working people's wages to counter the alleged labour shortage. Something at last that the lefties on here can agree with the Tories about. Strange old world, isn't it?
    2. I'd have thought the more radical Tory solution would be to lock more people up. I read on here that prisoners are much sought after. If you imprison a lot more people, then release them early, wouldn't that be a more cost effective solution to labour shortages?

    I don't see any tories apart from DavidL saying pay rises for minimum wage folk is a good thing. I am not a tory neither I believe is another richard
    If not a Tory what would you describe yourself and 'another richard' as being?
    Wouldn't a Tory be a member or otherwise strong supporter of the Conservative party ?

    Something which Hyufd and a few other PBers - Casino, Mortimer, MM, Max - might be classed as.

    But which neither I nor to my knowledge Pagan2 are.
    Can we clear this up once and for all. Being 'A Tory' is not an ethnicity it is simply a voting intention. I can understand why you're in denial-particularly at the moment - but to suggest neither you nor 'Another Richard' would vote for anyone else (except perhaps UKIP) is plainly ridiculous.

    So time to man up and say 'I'm a Tory and I'm proud"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 35,934
    IanB2 said:

    Raab and Patel won't go because the calls for them to do so are coming from opponents of the government. The things they are accused of doing / not doing are related to circumstances beyond their control in the era of 24 hour news and social media echo chambers. It's froth and Conservative members don't see this as a hanging offence. Move on.

    Or something like that.

    A lot of Tories want Raab out, including several ministers quoted in the Sun,

    They don't want him out enough to do anything about it. As ever with the patriotic party, it is what they consider is best for them rather than for the country that is all important.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946

    Raab and Patel won't go because the calls for them to do so are coming from opponents of the government. The things they are accused of doing / not doing are related to circumstances beyond their control in the era of 24 hour news and social media echo chambers. It's froth and Conservative members don't see this as a hanging offence. Move on.

    Or something like that.

    Quite right. Being mendacious and or useless are not resigning matters in this current administration. On the contrary two of the top three positions in government are held by people who have previously been sacked on multiple occasions for both.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    Misty moisty morning here.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    Any red skies in the morning?

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    edited August 22

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    You rose too late to catch the LibDem surge, lazy ****
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    Talking about weather, tuned in to Clarkson's Farm (Felix: "La Granja de Clarkson" btw) and found it to be the most life-enhancing TV show I've seen – even though the ewes were culled.
    I never got the hang of Top Gear.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited August 22
    IanB2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    You rose too late to catch the LibDem surge, lazy ****
    There is usually a yellow haze early doors but that gets wiped out by the blue sky within minutes. Lib Demmery is an endangered species round here. Even I voted LD over brexit and at the last GE but i have returned to the fold.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652

    IanB2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    You rose too late to catch the LibDem surge, lazy ****
    There is usually a yellow haze early doors but that gets wiped out by the blue sky within minutes. Lib Demmery is an endangered species round here. Even I voted LD over brexit and at the last GE but i have returned to the fold.
    "There's a bright golden haze on the meadow ... "

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,798

    IanB2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    You rose too late to catch the LibDem surge, lazy ****
    There is usually a yellow haze early doors but that gets wiped out by the blue sky within minutes. Lib Demmery is an endangered species round here. Even I voted LD over brexit and at the last GE but i have returned to the fold.
    Nice to see Sussex Tories doing something useful for a change, rather than selling out Sussex countryside to properly developer chums.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304
    Michael Gove is a rare resource in modern politics. He thinks about things and he is willing to act on his thoughts to change things in ways that he think are better. This used to be, well maybe not quite the norm, but pretty common. People went into politics because they didn't like the way things were done and wanted to change it. It's what motivated them to put up with all the crap.

    Now almost all of our politicians seem to be in politics for ego reasons. They view their role as managerial and tactical: what is going to look good, what makes my opponents make bad, what's going to advance my career? It makes our politicians superficial, intellectually lazy, vacuous and pretty unprincipled.

    Of course Gove has an ego too, an enormous one, and not all of the changes he wants to make will meet general approval, but he gets things done and gives the government a purpose. Since his role in Brexit wound down he has been somewhat under utilised. I suggested when that happened where Boris put Gove next would give a good clue about his priorities. So far these remain well disguised if they exist at all.

    Is the FO really the place for Gove? I would think not. Its not a major role these days given so much international stuff is done at PM level. The FO could certainly do with a serious shake up but its hardly a priority. And then there is the flying thing. I would really like to see him at the Home Office, but then I'd rather see almost anyone than Patel at the Home Office.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,897
    I forgot Michael Gove existed. Thanks for ruining my day with that reminder.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Of course Gove has an ego too, an enormous one, and not all of the changes he wants to make will meet general approval, but he gets things done and gives the government a purpose. Since his role in Brexit wound down he has been somewhat under utilised. I suggested when that happened where Boris put Gove next would give a good clue about his priorities. So far these remain well disguised if they exist at all.

    Maybe he could work on solving some of the problems created by "his role in Brexit"...
    The continuing role seems to be in Lord Frost's hands. No doubt he is still involved in committees etc. but Brexit is no longer a major issue, nearly all of us have moved on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,766
    edited August 22
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Just catching up having been away. A couple of comments if I may:

    1. Lovely to see so many Tories campaigning so vigorously for significant rises in working people's wages to counter the alleged labour shortage. Something at last that the lefties on here can agree with the Tories about. Strange old world, isn't it?
    2. I'd have thought the more radical Tory solution would be to lock more people up. I read on here that prisoners are much sought after. If you imprison a lot more people, then release them early, wouldn't that be a more cost effective solution to labour shortages?

    I don't see any tories apart from DavidL saying pay rises for minimum wage folk is a good thing. I am not a tory neither I believe is another richard
    If not a Tory what would you describe yourself and 'another richard' as being?
    Wouldn't a Tory be a member or otherwise strong supporter of the Conservative party ?

    Something which Hyufd and a few other PBers - Casino, Mortimer, MM, Max - might be classed as.

    But which neither I nor to my knowledge Pagan2 are.
    Can we clear this up once and for all. Being 'A Tory' is not an ethnicity it is simply a voting intention. I can understand why you're in denial-particularly at the moment - but to suggest neither you nor 'Another Richard' would vote for anyone else (except perhaps UKIP) is plainly ridiculous.

    So time to man up and say 'I'm a Tory and I'm proud"
    @another_richard is one of my favourite Johnson apologists/defenders.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511

    I forgot Michael Gove existed. Thanks for ruining my day with that reminder.

    It's remarkable that in the Times long piece excoriating BoZo and Raab for being useless, this line appears...

    In a Cobra meeting on Friday August 13, Raab was “obsessed with the airport”, according to some who were present, and was intervening on micro issues such as plane timetables. “When it came to the bigger picture of what this might mean for foreign policy Michael [Gove, the cabinet office minister] seemed to have thought about it more than Dominic.”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 319
    Good morning everyone.

    Nice to see Tony Blair wading in. His invasion of Iraq was one of the most ill-conceived decisions in the history of western foreign policy. However, since that aberration (which he refuses to own up to) he's been on good form and for the most part calls things right.

    He is, of course, right about Biden. The man's an imbecile.

    It's a foreign policy disaster. Heads should roll but won't because Johnson is too weak to appoint people with actual gumption and savvy e.g. Penny Mordaunt.

    Someone posted on here that Raab was good during Boris' hospital stay and I nearly choked with laughter on my cornflakes. That was the time I knew Dominic Raab would never be leader. He looked like a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights. Way out of his depth.

    Another of Boris Johnson's weak and inept ministers. How many does that now make? Michael Gove is about the only one left who is any good but the thread writer is probably right to lay him.

    Will any of this cut through? Yep. This one will hurt Boris Johnson because it's the kind of thing that gets his Brexit types irate. All sorts of reasons for that:

    - the awful sight of western forces running away
    - scenes of horror in Kabul
    - Taliban back in charge
    - 20 years down the drain including lives lost and, of course,
    - thousands more refugees into the UK
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,535
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    Any red skies in the morning?

    Voters' warning....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,639
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    DavidL said:

    A shortage of labour is a good thing.

    The point of the article if you had bothered to read it is the shortage of labour is causing shortages in shops.

    That is not a good thing by any measure.

    Poultry factories have been so badly hit that branches of Nando’s had to close last week, while some KFC items were unavailable. Suppliers have also warned of turkey shortages at Christmas.

    “The situation is getting worse. One member said, at this rate, Christmas is going to be a disaster.”

    James Bielby, chief executive of the Federation of Wholesale Distributors, said: “Any discerning shoppers can see there’s already less choice available on the shelves. It won’t go away until after Christmas at the earliest unless the government intervenes.”


    Maybe Gove could look into that...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    Scott_xP said:

    I forgot Michael Gove existed. Thanks for ruining my day with that reminder.

    It's remarkable that in the Times long piece excoriating BoZo and Raab for being useless, this line appears...

    In a Cobra meeting on Friday August 13, Raab was “obsessed with the airport”, according to some who were present, and was intervening on micro issues such as plane timetables. “When it came to the bigger picture of what this might mean for foreign policy Michael [Gove, the cabinet office minister] seemed to have thought about it more than Dominic.”
    A clear sign of intellectual inadequacy, clinging to the minutiae that he can understand for lack of grasp of the strategic picture
  • theProletheProle Posts: 553
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Just catching up having been away. A couple of comments if I may:

    1. Lovely to see so many Tories campaigning so vigorously for significant rises in working people's wages to counter the alleged labour shortage. Something at last that the lefties on here can agree with the Tories about. Strange old world, isn't it?
    2. I'd have thought the more radical Tory solution would be to lock more people up. I read on here that prisoners are much sought after. If you imprison a lot more people, then release them early, wouldn't that be a more cost effective solution to labour shortages?

    I don't see any tories apart from DavidL saying pay rises for minimum wage folk is a good thing. I am not a tory neither I believe is another richard
    If not a Tory what would you describe yourself and 'another richard' as being?
    Wouldn't a Tory be a member or otherwise strong supporter of the Conservative party ?

    Something which Hyufd and a few other PBers - Casino, Mortimer, MM, Max - might be classed as.

    But which neither I nor to my knowledge Pagan2 are.
    Can we clear this up once and for all. Being 'A Tory' is not an ethnicity it is simply a voting intention. I can understand why you're in denial-particularly at the moment - but to suggest neither you nor 'Another Richard' would vote for anyone else (except perhaps UKIP) is plainly ridiculous.

    So time to man up and say 'I'm a Tory and I'm proud"
    Even on your broader definition, I don't think that's right. I'm someone who would once have been a Tory voter - and voted for them in my marginal constituency as recently as 2019.

    I think Brexit is a good thing (currently it's causing if anything less disruption than I anticipated, and it's effect on low paid wages has happened much faster than I anticipated).

    However I don't believe in the current tax and borrow state of affairs (some of it was necessary, but they've launched into it with all the enthusiasm of a bunch of Corbinites meeting at a print works).
    I'm appalled that the Covid restrictions ever had force of law rather than being just strong advise. I'm ahast at the idea of forcing people to have a medical procedure to do everyday things and given what we know about vaccines not blocking transmission it's pretty much pointless anyway (I'm in no way an antivaxer, I've had mine, and think they are largely safe and effective, I just think it's wrong to force people to have medical procedures they don't want to undergo).
    I'm not overly impressed with the generally shambolic approach this government has to pretty much everything.

    The trouble is, who exactly do you vote for? Labour stand for all the same stuff, but harder and faster, with a side helping of letting blokes in frocks into women's changing rooms.

    I've no idea what the Lib Dems stand for, but it's probably incoherent and mostly wrong.

    So what will I do with my vote next time? At the locals I voted RefUK, and lib dem (County and Town Council). I can't see me voting for the Tories unless something changes. Maybe I'll spoil my vote, maybe I'll vote RefUK if they stand. But certainly I'm currently not a Tory, if I ever was.

    This is where I think Pagan and Another Richard have probably got to as well.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    Heathener said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Nice to see Tony Blair wading in. His invasion of Iraq was one of the most ill-conceived decisions in the history of western foreign policy. However, since that aberration (which he refuses to own up to) he's been on good form and for the most part calls things right.

    He is, of course, right about Biden. The man's an imbecile.

    It's a foreign policy disaster. Heads should roll but won't because Johnson is too weak to appoint people with actual gumption and savvy e.g. Penny Mordaunt.

    Someone posted on here that Raab was good during Boris' hospital stay and I nearly choked with laughter on my cornflakes. That was the time I knew Dominic Raab would never be leader. He looked like a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights. Way out of his depth.

    Another of Boris Johnson's weak and inept ministers. How many does that now make? Michael Gove is about the only one left who is any good but the thread writer is probably right to lay him.

    Will any of this cut through? Yep. This one will hurt Boris Johnson because it's the kind of thing that gets his Brexit types irate. All sorts of reasons for that:

    - the awful sight of western forces running away
    - scenes of horror in Kabul
    - Taliban back in charge
    - 20 years down the drain including lives lost and, of course,
    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    Blair called Biden's slogan 'the forever wars' imbecilic.
    He did not call Biden an imbecile.
    There is a difference.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,766

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Misty moisty morning here.

    Blue (Tory) skies in W Sussex.
    Any red skies in the morning?

    Voters' warning....
    Red skies on 2024 election night, nation's delight.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    All too often a lack of alternatives and opportunities.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    That is a quite enormous generalisation.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920
    edited August 22
    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
      
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    Did they all choose crime for the same reason?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    Dura_Ace said:

    He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Another Brexit dividend...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,798
    geoffw said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Nice to see Tony Blair wading in. His invasion of Iraq was one of the most ill-conceived decisions in the history of western foreign policy. However, since that aberration (which he refuses to own up to) he's been on good form and for the most part calls things right.

    He is, of course, right about Biden. The man's an imbecile.

    It's a foreign policy disaster. Heads should roll but won't because Johnson is too weak to appoint people with actual gumption and savvy e.g. Penny Mordaunt.

    Someone posted on here that Raab was good during Boris' hospital stay and I nearly choked with laughter on my cornflakes. That was the time I knew Dominic Raab would never be leader. He looked like a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights. Way out of his depth.

    Another of Boris Johnson's weak and inept ministers. How many does that now make? Michael Gove is about the only one left who is any good but the thread writer is probably right to lay him.

    Will any of this cut through? Yep. This one will hurt Boris Johnson because it's the kind of thing that gets his Brexit types irate. All sorts of reasons for that:

    - the awful sight of western forces running away
    - scenes of horror in Kabul
    - Taliban back in charge
    - 20 years down the drain including lives lost and, of course,
    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    Blair called Biden's slogan 'the forever wars' imbecilic.
    He did not call Biden an imbecile.
    There is a difference.
    What happens when someone tells Biden about Korea?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365
    I don’t understand why these Smarkets markets keep getting pushed. The liquidity is usually so small as to make the price information meaningless.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,881
    geoffw said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Nice to see Tony Blair wading in. His invasion of Iraq was one of the most ill-conceived decisions in the history of western foreign policy. However, since that aberration (which he refuses to own up to) he's been on good form and for the most part calls things right.

    He is, of course, right about Biden. The man's an imbecile.

    It's a foreign policy disaster. Heads should roll but won't because Johnson is too weak to appoint people with actual gumption and savvy e.g. Penny Mordaunt.

    Someone posted on here that Raab was good during Boris' hospital stay and I nearly choked with laughter on my cornflakes. That was the time I knew Dominic Raab would never be leader. He looked like a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights. Way out of his depth.

    Another of Boris Johnson's weak and inept ministers. How many does that now make? Michael Gove is about the only one left who is any good but the thread writer is probably right to lay him.

    Will any of this cut through? Yep. This one will hurt Boris Johnson because it's the kind of thing that gets his Brexit types irate. All sorts of reasons for that:

    - the awful sight of western forces running away
    - scenes of horror in Kabul
    - Taliban back in charge
    - 20 years down the drain including lives lost and, of course,
    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    Blair called Biden's slogan 'the forever wars' imbecilic.
    He did not call Biden an imbecile.
    There is a difference.
    Come on. Blair worded it carefully but bluntly enough so that anyone who is themselves not an imbecile could understand his true meaning.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    I’m not saying this Raab chap is an

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Anyway we have to deal with Now.

    Yes, and what can 'we' do while Fuckwit von Clownstick is the man in charge?

    What 'we' could practically do to improve our lot is get rid of the Clown collective.

    It's a tragedy that some of those who voted for them can't let go...
    You have expressed explicitly your contempt for the current Government, one I share TBF, but your problem is you have no idea what you want to replace it. Which is why your posts are so wearisome. How do ‘we’ remove the current Government? I would suggest that a suitable alternative beating it in an election might be a good way. So big up your suitable alternative.
    Has anyone ever told you that you are probably the most pompous arse ever to have posted on PB? To describe someone's posts as 'wearisome' could be witty but not in your hands.
    I find @DougSeal an interesting poster -- but whatever -- the point is he has only posted a couple of times on this thread.

    @Scott_xP had produced a stream of wailing posts that say the same thing again and again and again and again.

    Without wit, without insight, without intelligence.

    It is spam.

    Relentless, tedious, excessive, boring posting of the same thing again and again is spam.

    Wearisome is exactly the right word.
    I don't agree. I find both Scott and HYUFD useful, precisely because they pick up interesting stuff off Twitter, saving me the trouble. We're old enough to make up our own minds what we think of it (or to skip if we've seen enough).
    I find Scott and HYUFD "useful", indeed, I find them beyond useful. I find their opinions valuable, cherishable, precious, and more


    Because they give me an insight into a Remainer centrist ex Tory brain, and a true Tory unionist brain.

    Likewise NPXMP shows me what an old eurocommie Labour loyalist ex-MP thinks, Roger tells me what a rich old europhile lefty in France thinks, Stuart Dickson tells me what a fierce expat blood n soil Scot Nat in Sweden thinks (plus he gives persuasive insights into Swedish life), TSE tells me what a sort-of ex Tory failed Muslim geeky Liverpool football fan thinks, kle tells me what a man who rarely tells us what he really thinks thinks, Pagan2 tells us what an aspiring working class native Cornish speaking linguistic-ceolacanth thinks, kinabalu tells us about his birthday, Robert Smithson tells us what a car park entrepreneur Tory Brexiteer based in Santa Monica thinks, Carnyx tells us what an urbane Scot Nat classicist with a yearning for an Athenian villa thinks, Cyclefree tells us what a newly Cumbrian lawyer with firm views of Islam, restaurants, feminism and Europe thinks, Dura Ace tells us what a greenie anti vaxxing suicidal ex-army affluent motorhead with a remarkable vocabulary thinks...

    On and on. I could mention 50 more. So. Preserve. Don't ban anyone. This site is an amazing resource of human wisdom, bigotry, insight, foolishness, knowledge, wittiness, comedy, charm, madness, friendliness and entertaining inanity. Also good for bets.

    Hats off to the Smithsons pere et fils. This site should have a Grade 1listing on the internet. I am entirely serious. Malcolm G would be the unsightly medieval "garderobe" toilet that must also be kept, for authenticity

    Not all Tory unionists favour a pre-emptive war with Spain.
    FUDHY is usually lauding the Castilian police tactics of hitting elderly Catalan ladies over the head as they cast their votes in polling stations. I must have missed his call for military action against his role models.

    Consistency is not a Unionist trait.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920
    edited August 22
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Yeah, but that's not what this guy (and presumably many others) has been told. He just thinks: get to the UK and u r str8 m8. It's possibly one of the factors behind this summer's surge.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    moonshine said:

    geoffw said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Nice to see Tony Blair wading in. His invasion of Iraq was one of the most ill-conceived decisions in the history of western foreign policy. However, since that aberration (which he refuses to own up to) he's been on good form and for the most part calls things right.

    He is, of course, right about Biden. The man's an imbecile.

    It's a foreign policy disaster. Heads should roll but won't because Johnson is too weak to appoint people with actual gumption and savvy e.g. Penny Mordaunt.

    Someone posted on here that Raab was good during Boris' hospital stay and I nearly choked with laughter on my cornflakes. That was the time I knew Dominic Raab would never be leader. He looked like a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights. Way out of his depth.

    Another of Boris Johnson's weak and inept ministers. How many does that now make? Michael Gove is about the only one left who is any good but the thread writer is probably right to lay him.

    Will any of this cut through? Yep. This one will hurt Boris Johnson because it's the kind of thing that gets his Brexit types irate. All sorts of reasons for that:

    - the awful sight of western forces running away
    - scenes of horror in Kabul
    - Taliban back in charge
    - 20 years down the drain including lives lost and, of course,
    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    Blair called Biden's slogan 'the forever wars' imbecilic.
    He did not call Biden an imbecile.
    There is a difference.
    Come on. Blair worded it carefully but bluntly enough so that anyone who is themselves not an imbecile could understand his true meaning.
    Well it is true that he chose his words to get it widely reported. He called the slogan 'imbecilic' but did not call Biden an imbecile. That said, the Telegraph's headline shifted the object of his comment to Biden's policy - Tony Blair slams Joe Biden's 'imbecilic' retreat from Afghanistan - which is also not warranted.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Well, if it's about *refuge* they should.

    But we all know this is really about economic migration.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Well, if it's about *refuge* they should.

    But we all know this is really about economic migration.
    Another enormous generalisation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    Gove is bright, curious and a fantastic thinker but he doesn't know when to stop.

    He's the real-life human incarnation of the Scorpion and the Frog.

    A deeply troubled man.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    Should the new verb be "Dublined" or "Dublinned"? I prefer the latter.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Yeah, but that's not what this guy (and presumably many others) has been told. He just thinks: get to the UK and u r str8 m8. It's possibly one of the factors behind this summer's surge.
    Possibly. I think a relatively generous benefits and social welfare system not built around contributions, a dynamic job market, the existence of a large Iraqi community already, far less racism than is often found elsewhere and the fact that the world's second language is usually English are all pull factors too. Certainly when my daughter was volunteering with Caring for Calais last year that is what she was told. The would be immigrants seemed to take it as read that they could walk into a job here.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920
    geoffw said:

    Should the new verb be "Dublined" or "Dublinned"? I prefer the latter.

    Consonant doubling on past participles (generally) only occurs when the last syllable is stressed.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,652
    Dura_Ace said:

    geoffw said:

    Should the new verb be "Dublined" or "Dublinned"? I prefer the latter.

    Consonant doubling on past participles (generally) only occurs when the last syllable is stressed.
    Tx.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    The Canadian Tories need to win 37%+ of the national vote, and clearly win in Ontario, to form a Government.

    They won a plurality of the vote last time, and could do so again this time, but it won't be enough.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,862
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    I believe you do the whole Christian thing? My theology is rusty, but I don't think that guy who says Thank God I am not as other men are, is intended as an example to follow.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365

    Good morning, everyone.

    Excellent news: I finished Polybius off last night and will shortly start writing up an exciting blog on the subject.

    If Gove is the one pushing ID cards I hope his career falls off a cliff.

    I’ve carried a state ID card for nearly two decades, now primarily online. Makes everyday life super easy. It now seems stone age to me that Scots still have to produce electricity bills etc to prove identity.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    [ remember with affection the days when Labour were a potent electoral force. The days when Neil Kinnock was a big threat to the Government. Sigh. No longer. Now they are a squalid set of squabbling ferrets in a sack. Starmer would once have been a real Contender for PM.

    No longer. The structural damage has gone too far. They've swapped a bunch of Wolfie Smith wannabes for the traditional supporters. The Red wall is history. Even the LDs have morphed into a one issue party, in danger of being taken over by the Greens.

    And this when the Tories have BoJo, a man who no one would trust to wipe his own arse.

    Can't the 'None of the above' voters set up their own party?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    edited August 22

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    Good morning

    I spoke to my son in Vancouver last night and he says there is little love for Trudeau and he expects he may be returned, but with little power

    As I said last night my son has serious mental health issues, and he broke down during the conversation recounting in graphic detail the sights he witnessed at ground zero in Christchurch, NZ in 2011 when 189 people lost their lives in the main collapsed building, many of whom were young students from across the world.

    The description was so horrific that I did not even mention it to my wife or my daughter

    He has PTSD and it is sobering to think just how many will suffer this life changing condition and are currently in Kabul and Afghanistan

    We should all try to be a 'wee' bit more compassionate
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,639
    geoffw said:

      

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    Did they all choose crime for the same reason?
    No, and some can be rehabilitated of course.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    I take it that OGH is showcasing Smarkets after Betfair’s behaviour following the presidential election?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,269

    Gove is bright, curious and a fantastic thinker but he doesn't know when to stop.

    He's the real-life human incarnation of the Scorpion and the Frog.

    A deeply troubled man.

    Brilliant at identifying what's wrong with a status quo- a lot of the windmills he tilted at while at Education needed a thorough tilting.

    Much less good at creating successor systems that work better, or at all.

    Much like his most famous SPAD, really.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Well, if it's about *refuge* they should.

    But we all know this is really about economic migration.
    Of course it is but the obligations to address asylum claims under the UN Convention apply to whichever country the application is made to and we have promised to meet those obligations. Dublin was a somewhat curious exception to that principle. Why the front line states of the EU such as Greece and Italy ever signed up to it is a mystery to me.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,490

    I forgot Michael Gove existed. Thanks for ruining my day with that reminder.

    Knowing that has ruined your day. 😂😂😂😂
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,639
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:


    - thousands more refugees into the UK

    There was an interesting interview with some refugees on French TV on Friday night. They spoke (under a hail of CS gas and baton rounds) to an Iraqi Kurd who came to Germany several years ago. He was trying to get to the UK because his asylum application in Germany had been refused and he was under threat of being 'Dublined' back to Romania where his first entry to the EU had been documented. He (and others) were going to the UK now because he had been told, by the traffickers, that he could no longer be Dublined out of the UK.

    Also, 800 arrivals across the channel yesterday. GG Patel.
    I've pointed out before that in 2019 something like 200 refugees were "Dublined" back to mainland Europe whilst about 800 were "Dublined" the other way, mainly to reunite families. The idea that it was any kind of material protection for us is a myth based around the common misconception that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they come to. They don't.
    Yeah, but that's not what this guy (and presumably many others) has been told. He just thinks: get to the UK and u r str8 m8. It's possibly one of the factors behind this summer's surge.
    Possibly. I think a relatively generous benefits and social welfare system not built around contributions, a dynamic job market, the existence of a large Iraqi community already, far less racism than is often found elsewhere and the fact that the world's second language is usually English are all pull factors too. Certainly when my daughter was volunteering with Caring for Calais last year that is what she was told. The would be immigrants seemed to take it as read that they could walk into a job here.
    Correctly too, as the Kurdish restraunter where I went for dinner the other night found out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,646
    When I'm voting Blue
    All I have to do
    Is mark my 'X' by you
    And then I'm not so blue

    When you're close to me
    I can feel your conceit
    I can hear you briefing
    'gainst Sir Keir

    Wouldn't you agree
    Baby, you and me
    Got a groovy kind of Gove
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    Good morning

    I spoke to my son in Vancouver last night and he says there is little love for Trudeau and he expects he may be returned, but with little power

    As I said last night my son has serious mental health issues, and he broke down during the conversation recounting in graphic detail the sights he witnessed at ground zero in Christchurch, NZ in 2011 when 189 people lost their lives in the main collapsed building, many of whom were young students from across the world.

    The description was so horrific that I did not even mention it to my wife or my daughter

    He has PTSD and it is sobering to think just how many will suffer this life changing condition and are currently in Kabul and Afghanistan

    We should all try to be a 'wee' bit more compassionate
    Really sorry to read that BigG. We all get completely the wrong impression from action movies that after something horrific people just dust themselves down and move on to the next drama. In the real world that is almost the exception.
  • DougSeal said:

    I take it that OGH is showcasing Smarkets after Betfair’s behaviour following the presidential election?

    That and for both Mike and myself what has really made us pro Smarkets is the fact that Shadsy now runs the political markets for Smarkets.

    He's an absolute top banana.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Is it me or has the Met Office been playing expectation management all summer? Not for the first time the forecast had rain all day but it’s turning into quite a lovely morning here in the Kent Downs Area of Outstanding Natural beauty aka Kent.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365

    Gove is bright, curious and a fantastic thinker but he doesn't know when to stop.

    He's the real-life human incarnation of the Scorpion and the Frog.

    A deeply troubled man.

    That’s why we love him fronting BetterTogether2.

    I enjoy watching/listening to Gove in roughly the same way as Maggie. The awe of seeing someone like that in that position simply takes the breath away. First class entertainment.

    I personally credit Gove with virtually single-handedly turning one of my best friends from SLab to SNP. She simply cannot tolerate the man’s fizzog. I think a lot of Scots get a primeval urge to give him a well-deserved slapping. Not me: I love the guy.

    Cheers Maggie!
    Cheers Michael!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    Good morning

    I spoke to my son in Vancouver last night and he says there is little love for Trudeau and he expects he may be returned, but with little power

    As I said last night my son has serious mental health issues, and he broke down during the conversation recounting in graphic detail the sights he witnessed at ground zero in Christchurch, NZ in 2011 when 189 people lost their lives in the main collapsed building, many of whom were young students from across the world.

    The description was so horrific that I did not even mention it to my wife or my daughter

    He has PTSD and it is sobering to think just how many will suffer this life changing condition and are currently in Kabul and Afghanistan

    We should all try to be a 'wee' bit more compassionate
    That’s dreadful Big G. Very sorry to hear this.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,759
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I forgot Michael Gove existed. Thanks for ruining my day with that reminder.

    It's remarkable that in the Times long piece excoriating BoZo and Raab for being useless, this line appears...

    In a Cobra meeting on Friday August 13, Raab was “obsessed with the airport”, according to some who were present, and was intervening on micro issues such as plane timetables. “When it came to the bigger picture of what this might mean for foreign policy Michael [Gove, the cabinet office minister] seemed to have thought about it more than Dominic.”
    A clear sign of intellectual inadequacy, clinging to the minutiae that he can understand for lack of grasp of the strategic picture
    The alternative view is that Raab was concentrating on the details that matter right now while Gove was airily ruminating on a hypothetical future as if back at his old job of Times leader writer. Raab could be wrong by tea-time on the matter of evacuations from Kabul. Gove could be wrong in ten or twenty years by which time no-one will care or even remember what he said until some future PhD student chances upon the Cabinet minutes in the National Archives at Kew.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,398
    Mr. Dickson, I do not trust the Government or the Opposition with that sort of nonsense over here.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    The Canadian Tories need to win 37%+ of the national vote, and clearly win in Ontario, to form a Government.

    They won a plurality of the vote last time, and could do so again this time, but it won't be enough.
    Sounds like England, where despite heading for a plurality of the vote, it’s looking 50:50 if the Tories can govern again. That’s what happens when you shit on every feasible coalition partner. (Hope Starmer’s paying attention. Ahem Anneliese Dodds.)
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    Mr Dickson,

    Would you turn your back on wee Jimmy?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    "Polling Canada
    @CanadianPolling
    Federal Polling:

    Con: 33% (-1)
    Lib: 31% (-2)
    NDP: 18% (+2)
    BQ: 6% (-2)
    People's Party: 6% (+4)
    Green: 5% (-2)"

    https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1429196195294027784

    Does Canada have an equivalent of Baxter’s seat calculator? As it is FPTP the raw poll findings mean little to those inexperienced in Canadian demographics.
    Good morning

    I spoke to my son in Vancouver last night and he says there is little love for Trudeau and he expects he may be returned, but with little power

    As I said last night my son has serious mental health issues, and he broke down during the conversation recounting in graphic detail the sights he witnessed at ground zero in Christchurch, NZ in 2011 when 189 people lost their lives in the main collapsed building, many of whom were young students from across the world.

    The description was so horrific that I did not even mention it to my wife or my daughter

    He has PTSD and it is sobering to think just how many will suffer this life changing condition and are currently in Kabul and Afghanistan

    We should all try to be a 'wee' bit more compassionate
    That’s dreadful Big G. Very sorry to hear this.
    Thank you.

    He is utterly traumatised and has not worked for two years

    Indeed he has recently undergone 16 electroconvulsive sessions and is unlikely to be able to work in the foreseeable future

    At 55 his future is very uncertain, and a huge worry to his mother and I and of course his wife
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,881
    Talking of people taking a holiday at the wrong time. I don’t think I’ve watched the Andy Marr more than once or twice in a decade. But figured this week was the one to watch. But no, it was Jack Graelish shinning it in against Norwich instead.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,398
    Mr. Dickson, unless the next election has an interesting result, there's only one theoretical coalition partner for Labour. Unfortunately for them, it's one that wants to end the UK. And if they don't rule out any sort of deal with the SNP, Labour will be vulnerable to obvious attacks everywhere else.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,572
    DavidL said:

    Michael Gove is a rare resource in modern politics. He thinks about things and he is willing to act on his thoughts to change things in ways that he think are better. This used to be, well maybe not quite the norm, but pretty common. People went into politics because they didn't like the way things were done and wanted to change it. It's what motivated them to put up with all the crap.

    Now almost all of our politicians seem to be in politics for ego reasons. They view their role as managerial and tactical: what is going to look good, what makes my opponents make bad, what's going to advance my career? It makes our politicians superficial, intellectually lazy, vacuous and pretty unprincipled.

    Of course Gove has an ego too, an enormous one, and not all of the changes he wants to make will meet general approval, but he gets things done and gives the government a purpose. Since his role in Brexit wound down he has been somewhat under utilised. I suggested when that happened where Boris put Gove next would give a good clue about his priorities. So far these remain well disguised if they exist at all.

    Is the FO really the place for Gove? I would think not. Its not a major role these days given so much international stuff is done at PM level. The FO could certainly do with a serious shake up but its hardly a priority. And then there is the flying thing. I would really like to see him at the Home Office, but then I'd rather see almost anyone than Patel at the Home Office.

    Gove at the Home Office would be interesting. He has shown in the past he is willing to act counter to the wishes of the hang em and flog em brigade and his last stint as Justice Secretary was widely praised for reversing some of the idiocies of his predecessor Grayling and also his general attitude to prison reform.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,639
    edited August 22
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    I believe you do the whole Christian thing? My theology is rusty, but I don't think that guy who says Thank God I am not as other men are, is intended as an example to follow.
    Sunday morning is a good time for Bible Study!😇

    “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves” (Matthew 10:16, KJV).

    When Jesus told the Twelve to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves, He laid down a general principle about how we take the gospel to a hostile world. We must be wise (avoiding the snares set for us), and we must be innocent (serving Him blamelessly). Wisdom does not equal dishonesty, and innocence does not equal gullibility.

    So when employing ex-convicts, which is a good thing, we should not put them in a position where they are at risk to themselves of re-offending, thereby falling back into sin, and damaging the business. So for example employing someone with convictions for GBH as door security, or someone convicted of burglary with locking up at the end of the day.

    Understanding that convicts had issues with conventional work or relationships does not hamper rehabilitation, it is rather the key to doing it successfully.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920

    Gove is bright, curious and a fantastic thinker but he doesn't know when to stop.

    He's the real-life human incarnation of the Scorpion and the Frog.

    A deeply troubled man.

    That’s why we love him fronting BetterTogether2.


    I will say this about "Govey": despite having a deeply strange persona that suggests it would be an act of catastrophic folly to leave him alone with a small animal he has somehow managed to have a relatively successful career in politics.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,398
    Mr. NorthWales, hope your son can make a full recovery.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,151

    DougSeal said:

    I take it that OGH is showcasing Smarkets after Betfair’s behaviour following the presidential election?

    That and for both Mike and myself what has really made us pro Smarkets is the fact that Shadsy now runs the political markets for Smarkets.

    He's an absolute top banana.
    Would it be fair to assume that your headline refers to a cross-border romantic interlude of some description?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365
    CD13 said:

    Mr Dickson,

    Would you turn your back on wee Jimmy?

    Clarification in recognised language required.

    I can manage Scots, English, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Italian and French, and at a pinch Dutch, German and Castilian, without resorting to Google Translate. But the key problem is they haven’t programmed in Yoonish yet.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    moonshine said:

    Talking of people taking a holiday at the wrong time. I don’t think I’ve watched the Andy Marr more than once or twice in a decade. But figured this week was the one to watch. But no, it was Jack Graelish shinning it in against Norwich instead.

    They all count.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,759
    edited August 22
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Brexit is no longer a major issue

    Food manufacturers and restaurants are scrambling to recruit prisoners to help ease the “desperate” shortage of workers caused by Covid-19 and Brexit.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shops-farms-and-restaurants-turn-to-prisons-to-fill-staff-shortages-j2qgd38td
    Rehabilitation is surely a good thing, though one does wonder about the work ethic and reliability of convicts. They chose crime for a reason.
    Has the Crawley Poisoner applied for a job in your staff canteen? Your doubts are why ex-prisoners find it hard to secure employment, and so many of them will drift back into crime. There are not many employers willing to take a chance – and you are right, it is a taking a risk – and they will be overwhelmed with applications.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    I was wondering if anyone had heard from BluestBlue lately?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,304

    DavidL said:

    Michael Gove is a rare resource in modern politics. He thinks about things and he is willing to act on his thoughts to change things in ways that he think are better. This used to be, well maybe not quite the norm, but pretty common. People went into politics because they didn't like the way things were done and wanted to change it. It's what motivated them to put up with all the crap.

    Now almost all of our politicians seem to be in politics for ego reasons. They view their role as managerial and tactical: what is going to look good, what makes my opponents make bad, what's going to advance my career? It makes our politicians superficial, intellectually lazy, vacuous and pretty unprincipled.

    Of course Gove has an ego too, an enormous one, and not all of the changes he wants to make will meet general approval, but he gets things done and gives the government a purpose. Since his role in Brexit wound down he has been somewhat under utilised. I suggested when that happened where Boris put Gove next would give a good clue about his priorities. So far these remain well disguised if they exist at all.

    Is the FO really the place for Gove? I would think not. Its not a major role these days given so much international stuff is done at PM level. The FO could certainly do with a serious shake up but its hardly a priority. And then there is the flying thing. I would really like to see him at the Home Office, but then I'd rather see almost anyone than Patel at the Home Office.

    Gove at the Home Office would be interesting. He has shown in the past he is willing to act counter to the wishes of the hang em and flog em brigade and his last stint as Justice Secretary was widely praised for reversing some of the idiocies of his predecessor Grayling and also his general attitude to prison reform.
    Indeed. We need a politician who is brave enough to take on the hopelessly self defeating and lethal drug policies that come from the Misuse of Drugs Act. I really cannot think of any other front line politician in any party who would have the balls to do that. Maybe Ed Davey.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,365

    Mr. Dickson, unless the next election has an interesting result, there's only one theoretical coalition partner for Labour. Unfortunately for them, it's one that wants to end the UK. And if they don't rule out any sort of deal with the SNP, Labour will be vulnerable to obvious attacks everywhere else.

    You’ll be unsurprised to hear that the affairs of (ahem) “everywhere else”-land are not my primary concern. Anneliese Dodds clearly has other thoughts.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,766
    Dura_Ace said:

    Gove is bright, curious and a fantastic thinker but he doesn't know when to stop.

    He's the real-life human incarnation of the Scorpion and the Frog.

    A deeply troubled man.

    That’s why we love him fronting BetterTogether2.


    I will say this about "Govey": despite having a deeply strange persona that suggests it would be an act of catastrophic folly to leave him alone with a small animal he has somehow managed to have a relatively successful career in politics.
    That is both true and very disconcerting.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    Mr Dickson

    Wee Jimmy comes across as a good politician, but that isn't a compliment. Poor old Alex, he fell foul of her ambition. Not that I have much sympathy for him.

    In the end, you have to trust politicians but not hero-worship them. They are mostly in it for their own good, or they have a fanatical desire to make the world a better place by doing down others, Neither are healthy.
  • Can I just say - delighted to see that JohnO is still with us.

    He was in great form on Monday as we held one of our regular PB Tory lunches.

    I was absolutely delighted to see him again.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    I don’t understand why these Smarkets markets keep getting pushed. The liquidity is usually so small as to make the price information meaningless.

    Just like the constituency markets you used to paste every morning that were of no interest to anyone. It was an obsession of yours.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,881
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Michael Gove is a rare resource in modern politics. He thinks about things and he is willing to act on his thoughts to change things in ways that he think are better. This used to be, well maybe not quite the norm, but pretty common. People went into politics because they didn't like the way things were done and wanted to change it. It's what motivated them to put up with all the crap.

    Now almost all of our politicians seem to be in politics for ego reasons. They view their role as managerial and tactical: what is going to look good, what makes my opponents make bad, what's going to advance my career? It makes our politicians superficial, intellectually lazy, vacuous and pretty unprincipled.

    Of course Gove has an ego too, an enormous one, and not all of the changes he wants to make will meet general approval, but he gets things done and gives the government a purpose. Since his role in Brexit wound down he has been somewhat under utilised. I suggested when that happened where Boris put Gove next would give a good clue about his priorities. So far these remain well disguised if they exist at all.

    Is the FO really the place for Gove? I would think not. Its not a major role these days given so much international stuff is done at PM level. The FO could certainly do with a serious shake up but its hardly a priority. And then there is the flying thing. I would really like to see him at the Home Office, but then I'd rather see almost anyone than Patel at the Home Office.

    Gove at the Home Office would be interesting. He has shown in the past he is willing to act counter to the wishes of the hang em and flog em brigade and his last stint as Justice Secretary was widely praised for reversing some of the idiocies of his predecessor Grayling and also his general attitude to prison reform.
    Indeed. We need a politician who is brave enough to take on the hopelessly self defeating and lethal drug policies that come from the Misuse of Drugs Act. I really cannot think of any other front line politician in any party who would have the balls to do that. Maybe Ed Davey.
    I must admit it is a surprise that there is not stronger political momentum to legalise cannabis in the UK. Seems such an obvious thing to do and wouldn’t even be too controversial at this point.
This discussion has been closed.