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Biden’s legacy looks set to be the one who lost Afghanistan – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 15 in General
imageBiden’s legacy looks set to be the one who lost Afghanistan – politicalbetting.com

There’s is little doubt that the events in Afghanistan with the Taliban having now taken over just about all the major areas is going to hurt Biden politically. The big danger now is that he will go down as the one who “lost” and the consequences of that will be blamed on him.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    First
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    Second,
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    I think we can all agree that it is a tragic failure of policy and intelligence but we must hope those who want evacuation are evacuated
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,771
    edited August 15
    Avoiding blame for Trump will take some mental gymnastics of epic proportions, but US Republicans have already shown themselves to be well capable of those, to almost counter-democratic and dizzying proportions over the last year.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,801
    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    WI need two to win with one wicket left.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    fpt for foxy


    Hmmm


    The Taliban are sophisticated enough to overrun an entire country, and defeat an army four times the size (backed by a superpower) in a matter of weeks. To the total surprise of "the greatest intelligence agencies in the world"

    I don't buy this idea they are chaotic and unsophisticated. They have been honed by 30 Darwinian years of fighting, maybe centuries, into a formidable force with excellent command of tactics AND strategy

    What they are is factionalised, however. There are pragmatists who just want to run a very Islamic Afghanistan, there are ideologues who want to export terror and hurt America anyway they can. The nutters might be the ones who mortar the airport, escalating the fight

    And it is perfectly credible: the idea that Biden would pay off the Talibs to get the evacuation to work. He's a bit sleepy. but he knows that if this fucks up and thousands die, he will not be re-elected. That's gotta be worth a couple of billion

    I'm not saying it is true, just that it is plausible
  • The first test of Global Britain
  • pingping Posts: 1,412
    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    I don’t see that happening.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    WI win by one wicket. I was hoping for a tied test.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 938

    I think we can all agree that it is a tragic failure of policy and intelligence but we must hope those who want evacuation are evacuated

    Hard to disagree with this, but where are the (potentially millions of) Afghans wanting to get out supposed to be relocated to?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    If the government could just have held on even half a year it would clearly be a disaster (albeit entirely predictable, and possibly inevitable as there just isn't the will to stay there forever, which is what it would clearly take) but Biden must be spitting mad that the assessments proved so off that they couldn't last beyond even weeks.

    Even supporting a total withdrawal in principle the rapidity of capitulation has made comical Ali's of some of the official announcements.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,751
    FPT

    So many of the pictures of the Taliban forces look so young. I doubt many of them remember the 1990s or 2000s.

    It gives a new meaning to the metaphor of a "breeding ground for terrorists".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,534
    ping said:

    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    I don’t see that happening.
    Nope.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    I mean, this is just pathetic


    President Biden is expected to address the nation in the next few days about the crisis in Afghanistan, an administration official says
    https://cnn.it/3g2QVo8


    The USA has just been chased out of Afghanistan like the Soviet Union before it, arguably in scenes of even more humiliating chaos

    Yet the president will make a speech about it "in the next few days"
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 938
    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    That might be a bit of a hard sell.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,551
    ping said:

    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    I don’t see that happening.
    No way is that happening!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    Johnson’s legacy looks set to be the one who lost Afghanistan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757

    The first test of Global Britain

    We're peripheral to the situation in Afghanistan itself, I see no test in the actions taken to this point. But the response, particularly with inevitable refugees, will be a test indeed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,801
    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    That might be a bit of a hard sell.
    It depends on whether Afghanistan starts to export terror, it seems highly likely at this point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Leon said:

    I mean, this is just pathetic


    President Biden is expected to address the nation in the next few days about the crisis in Afghanistan, an administration official says
    https://cnn.it/3g2QVo8


    The USA has just been chased out of Afghanistan like the Soviet Union before it, arguably in scenes of even more humiliating chaos

    Yet the president will make a speech about it "in the next few days"

    "My fellow Americans. It's Afghanistan, what did any of us expect? No further comment, ask me about my tax plans".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    edited August 15
    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    kle4 said:

    If the government could just have held on even half a year it would clearly be a disaster (albeit entirely predictable, and possibly inevitable as there just isn't the will to stay there forever, which is what it would clearly take) but Biden must be spitting mad that the assessments proved so off that they couldn't last beyond even weeks.

    Even supporting a total withdrawal in principle the rapidity of capitulation has made comical Ali's of some of the official announcements.

    Indeed.

    In practical terms it makes no real difference if the Afghan government would have fallen in a week or in 18 months, in that either way the Taliban would still have ended up back in charge.

    But in political terms if it had been a slow collapse the West could have shrugged its shoulders and said "meh" in a conflict that would have gone largely under the radar here. But instead, such a disastrous, rapid implosion can only do the exact opposite.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    edited August 15
    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG
  • pingping Posts: 1,412
    kle4 said:

    If the government could just have held on even half a year it would clearly be a disaster (albeit entirely predictable, and possibly inevitable as there just isn't the will to stay there forever, which is what it would clearly take) but Biden must be spitting mad that the assessments proved so off that they couldn't last beyond even weeks.

    Even supporting a total withdrawal in principle the rapidity of capitulation has made comical Ali's of some of the official announcements.

    I suspect the factor that the intel assessments missed was smartphones/social media.

    It’s completely changed the way revolutions/institutional collapses play out.

    What used to take months & weeks, now happens in hours and minutes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    I just want to correct a comment I made about my 18 year old granddaughter when I said she is in a literary group and has written seven books

    She is in a literary group, but has now just finished writing her 'first' novel about a prince who was sent on a quest he would be executed on if he fails, he meets a bunch of people he can trust and others he cannot, and in the end he must make a choice between his freedom and his duty to his country

    Sounds interesting for those who like novels and not sure where seven books came from
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,551

    Avoiding blame for Trump will take some mental gymnastics of epic proportions, but US Republicans have already shown themselves to be well capable of those, to almost counter-democratic and dizzying proportions over the last year.

    Avoiding the blame for Johnson requires quite some gymnastics too.

    Either he is as incompetent as Biden, so was caught out equally, or he has no link or influence on American policy. Both, probably.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757

    kle4 said:

    If the government could just have held on even half a year it would clearly be a disaster (albeit entirely predictable, and possibly inevitable as there just isn't the will to stay there forever, which is what it would clearly take) but Biden must be spitting mad that the assessments proved so off that they couldn't last beyond even weeks.

    Even supporting a total withdrawal in principle the rapidity of capitulation has made comical Ali's of some of the official announcements.

    Indeed.

    In practical terms it makes no real difference if the Afghan government would have fallen in a week or in 18 months, in that either way the Taliban would still have ended up back in charge.

    But in political terms if it had been a slow collapse the West could have shrugged its shoulders and said "meh" in a conflict that would have gone largely under the radar here. But instead, such a disastrous, rapid implosion can only do the exact opposite.
    Yes, I think psycologically it would be easier to disassociate any culpability had there been a delay.

    Even considering the capitulations, the Taliban have certainly proven logistically more capable than anticipated!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow

    The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.

    “It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/pope-francis-wants-hold-mass-24763099.amp
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,551
    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    Johnson and Raab too of course.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 718
    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,602
    MaxPB said:

    The first test of Global Britain

    Not really, our test here is sending in 2000-3000 troops to safely get British citizens out of the country into Pakistan so they can fly home and not lose anyone in the fighting.
    The same Pakistan who are the biggest backers of the Taliban?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    Tim Marshall on Sky News.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    Very pleased that the UK government has now agreed to take the Afghan Chevening scholars who were promised places earlier this year. Thank you to everyone who campaigned on this

    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1427021966024876037?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    Johnson and Raab too of course.
    The UK is no longer the leading free world superpower anymore and has not been for 100 years and since the 2 world wars and the end of the British Empire.

    We were never going to be able to hold Afghanistan alone, we could only provide support to the Americans to do so.

    Yes Boris could have pressured Biden more but at the end of the day the responsibility for this disaster lies primarily with Biden and Harris
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    Afghanistan conflict: As Kabul falls, Biden backlash grows

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58224399.amp
  • YokesYokes Posts: 733
    If Biden had taken the advice and just stayed in with the presence proposed I doubt it would have swung a vote in the mid terms. Prompted, the population may say get their troops out but the key term there is 'prompted'.

    This is what happens when someone wants to do symbolic above the practical, all out for September 11th. Its not the decision, its not even leaving a ton of Afghans who threw their lot in with the Americans that is the damage, its the visuals of the humiliation of being chased out and the feeling the big dog is being bossed by the little dog, sporting a beard and sandals.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,771
    edited August 15

    MaxPB said:

    The first test of Global Britain

    Not really, our test here is sending in 2000-3000 troops to safely get British citizens out of the country into Pakistan so they can fly home and not lose anyone in the fighting.
    The same Pakistan who are the biggest backers of the Taliban?
    The same, which is why they may also be the ones exercising the most leverage on them to cool things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I own four of his books, all good reads.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    Taliban orders forces to enter Kabul “to prevent looting” which has started. They say “the war is over in Afghanistan “ and do not believe the West will repeat its failed interventions again

    https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1427022770391724033?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,437
    Well.
    That was 20 years well spent.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 733
    MaxPB said:

    The first test of Global Britain

    Not really, our test here is sending in 2000-3000 troops to safely get British citizens out of the country into Pakistan so they can fly home and not lose anyone in the fighting.
    I suspect the British have got proportionally more out as of tonight than some others.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    Dominic Raab accused of ‘going AWOL’ as Afghanistan on brink of Taliban takeover

    Tory foreign affairs committee chair Tom Tugendhat said: ‘I don’t know what is in the works because we haven’t heard from the Foreign Secretary in about a week – despite this being the biggest single policy disaster since Suez’.

    Speaking to the BBC, he added: ‘This isn’t just about interpreters or guards. This is about those people who we trained in special forces to serve alongside us, those who helped us to understand the territory through our agencies and our diplomats.

    ‘This is the people who, on our encouragement, set up schools for girls. These people are all at risk now.

    ‘The real danger is that we are going to see every female MP murdered, we are going to see ministers strung up on street lamps.’

    https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/15/dominic-raab-rushes-back-from-holiday-as-taliban-on-brink-of-takeover-15095018/amp/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I own four of his books, all good reads.
    He’s asking why couldn’t the rest of NATO fill the gap left by America?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,890
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
  • pingping Posts: 1,412
    edited August 15
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I’m a fan of Lyse Doucet. Understated, old school, inquisitive, brave. Exactly how a foreign correspondent should be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    I'm just going to repost it for the pure comedy value

    Dark comedy, admittedly

    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    "The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls."



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,602
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I own four of his books, all good reads.
    He’s asking why couldn’t the rest of NATO fill the gap left by America?
    HYUFD and Leon are standing by as we speak!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,771
    edited August 15
    ping said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I’m a fan of Lyse Doucet. Understated, old school, inquisitive, brave. Exactly how a foreign correspondent should be.
    Yes, she's great. Also Lindsay Hilsum on Channel 4 News.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    No, really they are. Add in their Wokery, and they are just as bad

    America is a country with two major political parties, one is Corbynite Labour with loadsamoney , the other is UKIP with a hangover


    They are FUCKED
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    The state of this….

    @yanisvaroufakis
    ·
    49m
    On the day liberal-neocon imperialism was defeated once and for all, DiEM25's thoughts are with the women of Afghanistan. Our solidarity probably means little to them but it is what we can offer - for the time being. Hang in there sisters!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1427012544523296774
  • YokesYokes Posts: 733
    ping said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I’m a fan of Lyse Doucet. Understated, old school, inquisitive, brave. Exactly how a foreign correspondent should be.
    She was turned back earlier today on a flight inbound to Kabul.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757

    Taliban orders forces to enter Kabul “to prevent looting” which has started. They say “the war is over in Afghanistan “ and do not believe the West will repeat its failed interventions again

    https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1427022770391724033?s=20

    They're right about that. I presume the West is hoping for an official 'transfer of power' so we can all pretend that this time the Taliban are being more careful. No one minds a monster, so long as it plays by the rules - the places that get invaded tend to not have enough reliable friends (with Libya even Russia and China didn't bother to veto resolutions).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403
    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    The Dems remain at 1.76 to win WH2024. No change.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    Ministry of Defence footage shows British troops arriving to help evacuate citizens and staff from Afghanistan, as Kabul falls to the Taliban

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1427005475330088963?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    ping said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I’m a fan of Lyse Doucet. Understated, old school, inquisitive, brave. Exactly how a foreign correspondent should be.
    Old school foreign correspondents must seem like an entirely different species when they hobnob with other journalists.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,771
    edited August 15
    DougSeal said:

    The state of this….

    @yanisvaroufakis
    ·
    49m
    On the day liberal-neocon imperialism was defeated once and for all, DiEM25's thoughts are with the women of Afghanistan. Our solidarity probably means little to them but it is what we can offer - for the time being. Hang in there sisters!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1427012544523296774

    Not Yanis's most considered post, but then global affairs rather than global economy was never really his academic area.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    ping said:

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim Marshall on Sky News.

    He always used to be my favourite foreign news correspondent until he left Sky News a few years ago.
    I’m a fan of Lyse Doucet. Understated, old school, inquisitive, brave. Exactly how a foreign correspondent should be.
    She's excellent as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403

    Avoiding blame for Trump will take some mental gymnastics of epic proportions, but US Republicans have already shown themselves to be well capable of those, to almost counter-democratic and dizzying proportions over the last year.

    He's drifted a touch for the nomination.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    In the largest Afghan enclave in the US, frustration, heartbreak and 'a sense of mourning'

    The San Francisco Bay area is home to about 60,000 Afghan immigrants, the largest concentration in the cities of Hayward and Fremont

    Most of the Afghan refugees who settled in the Bay Area began arriving there after the Soviet invasion.

    A new wave could come soon.

    "Rent is so expensive now -- $2,500 to $3,000," she said. "How are they going to afford it? When they bring these translators they usually give them rent money for six months and then they put them on the street and say, 'Go, you do it yourself.' All these translators, after six months, they come to our office and say, 'What should I do?'"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/14/us/afghan-american-community-taliban-advance/index.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    The Guardian sums it up well.

    "The fall of Kabul: a 20-year mission collapses in a single day"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/the-fall-of-kabul-a-20-year-mission-collapses-in-a-single-day
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014

    Ministry of Defence footage shows British troops arriving to help evacuate citizens and staff from Afghanistan, as Kabul falls to the Taliban

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1427005475330088963?s=20

    Arriving where? Doha?

    Certainly not Kabul, not tonight

    Nonetheless, best of British luck to them of course. Brave lads. Tough job
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 938

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    American politics has descended in to insanity - the democrats with their deranged identity politics and the trumpites with their conspiracy theories. I suppose Biden looks a bit more familiar and normal to those who came of age politically in the pre 2016 world, but then he goes and does this. For most of my life to date I would have instinctively sided with the democrats, but now I honestly don't know who I would vote for were I to be an American, it would be a very hard decision.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Andy_JS said:

    The Guardian sums it up well.

    "The fall of Kabul: a 20-year mission collapses in a single day"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/the-fall-of-kabul-a-20-year-mission-collapses-in-a-single-day

    It's a good headline, though given the 'mission' was never really achieved beyond the most initial of aims, with reports for years of Taliban strength, I dare say the collapse was not in a single day, despite the dramatic conclusion in the last weeks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    Of course they aren't. That sort of phoney equivalence is a crime against reason and logic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    The Dems remain at 1.76 to win WH2024. No change.
    Give it a few weeks, as the consequences of this disaster continue to unfold
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,693
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    Johnson and Raab too of course.
    The UK is no longer the leading free world superpower anymore and has not been for 100 years and since the 2 world wars and the end of the British Empire.

    We were never going to be able to hold Afghanistan alone, we could only provide support to the Americans to do so.

    Yes Boris could have pressured Biden more but at the end of the day the responsibility for this disaster lies primarily with Biden and Harris
    There's more than enough blame to go round. Does Johnson have agency in foreign policy (other than suppressing Scotland if that's foreign policy to you) or doesn't he?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,418
    Leon said:



    America is a country with two major political parties, one is Corbynite Labour with loadsamoney , the other is UKIP with a hangover


    They are FUCKED

    Biden and the Democrats are Corbynite Labour? What are you drinking?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    The Home Office has blocked deportations to Afghanistan

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1427026591071318021?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    edited August 15
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not just Biden, the collapse of Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and jihadi terrorism will damage Harris too and the whole Democratic Party both in the midterms next year and in 2024. They are now in charge of both the White House and Congress and it is on their watch they not only withdrew but in such a weak and chaotic way with no thought to the consequences.

    Johnson and Raab too of course.
    The UK is no longer the leading free world superpower anymore and has not been for 100 years and since the 2 world wars and the end of the British Empire.

    We were never going to be able to hold Afghanistan alone, we could only provide support to the Americans to do so.

    Yes Boris could have pressured Biden more but at the end of the day the responsibility for this disaster lies primarily with Biden and Harris
    There's more than enough blame to go round. Does Johnson have agency in foreign policy (other than suppressing Scotland if that's foreign policy to you) or doesn't he?
    Well obviously Boris can control Scottish Nationalists, he has more power than they do, not difficult so refusing them an indyref2 is easy.

    However beyond standing up to Nats in our own country and giving them no concessions at all, which Boris must do, internationally we can only stand up to China, Russia and militant Jihadi terrorism as a global western alliance. The US as the main focal point as the biggest economy in the west with the biggest military by far.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,801
    DougSeal said:

    The state of this….

    @yanisvaroufakis
    ·
    49m
    On the day liberal-neocon imperialism was defeated once and for all, DiEM25's thoughts are with the women of Afghanistan. Our solidarity probably means little to them but it is what we can offer - for the time being. Hang in there sisters!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1427012544523296774

    What an idiot. "Sorry women of Afghanistan, defeating liberal-neocon imperialism is more important than your suffering and probably rape and murder in the coming few months and years."

    Twitter really is the worst. It's almost as though people completely lose their faculties.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    NEW: UK foreign secretary Dominic Raab was advised to not go on holiday amid the Afghanistan situation, but he went anyway

    Via @thetimes


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1427020223065042944?s=20
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1427020754919514112?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    They were done with it on the morning of September 11th too, however militant Islamic extremists were certainly not done with taking the fight to the Great Satan.

    Unfortunately you cannot just turn off a terrorist threat at will
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403

    I just want to correct a comment I made about my 18 year old granddaughter when I said she is in a literary group and has written seven books

    She is in a literary group, but has now just finished writing her 'first' novel about a prince who was sent on a quest he would be executed on if he fails, he meets a bunch of people he can trust and others he cannot, and in the end he must make a choice between his freedom and his duty to his country

    Sounds interesting for those who like novels and not sure where seven books came from

    You were anticipating the inevitable sequels.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757

    A truly disturbing day. My takeaways are:

    The Biden Administration are in charge so they take the hit.

    US intelligence has been outrageously poor.

    I have a big issue over the morality of the exit, bearing in mind the reputation of the Taliban. This was Biden's call, and an ill thought through call at that.

    Johnson escapes any political fallout. I don't believe he has done anything wrong anyway.

    I am shocked at the raft of absolutely hysterical posts by both HYUFD and Leon.

    Shocked?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014
    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    American politics has descended in to insanity - the democrats with their deranged identity politics and the trumpites with their conspiracy theories. I suppose Biden looks a bit more familiar and normal to those who came of age politically in the pre 2016 world, but then he goes and does this. For most of my life to date I would have instinctively sided with the democrats, but now I honestly don't know who I would vote for were I to be an American, it would be a very hard decision.
    Yes, I'm in a fairly similar position, I was an Obamacan. Someone probably just about Republican, generally, if forced to choose - but I liked Obama and would have voted for him with great hope. Tho American politics is so different my perspective is almost meaningless. eg I find their arguments about gun laws utterly alien, and the abortion division confounds me, tho I respect the fact they have serious debates about serious things

    Or they used to

    This is where America has now left me bewildered. Their politics no longer seems serious. I know the British can be flippant and glib but America has gone way beyond our superficiality - the USA was recently governed by a certifiably insane president who attempted a coup, and it is now governed by a cabal of elitist wankers who think white people are evil.

    I give up. America is MAD and FUCKED

    Who on earth would move there now, as that journalist so eloquently put it in the Spectator?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282
    MaxPB said:

    Door opened for the GOP in 2024 IMO. This has been a disaster for the US and may see them forced to retake it within a few weeks and install one of the warlords as a dictator who will be much more resilient to the Taliban.

    Republican victory potus 2024 drifting, now 2.46
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,698
    edited August 15
    kle4 said:

    A truly disturbing day. My takeaways are:

    The Biden Administration are in charge so they take the hit.

    US intelligence has been outrageously poor.

    I have a big issue over the morality of the exit, bearing in mind the reputation of the Taliban. This was Biden's call, and an ill thought through call at that.

    Johnson escapes any political fallout. I don't believe he has done anything wrong anyway.

    I am shocked at the raft of absolutely hysterical posts by both HYUFD and Leon.

    Shocked?
    ...and stunned!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282

    kle4 said:

    A truly disturbing day. My takeaways are:

    The Biden Administration are in charge so they take the hit.

    US intelligence has been outrageously poor.

    I have a big issue over the morality of the exit, bearing in mind the reputation of the Taliban. This was Biden's call, and an ill thought through call at that.

    Johnson escapes any political fallout. I don't believe he has done anything wrong anyway.

    I am shocked at the raft of absolutely hysterical posts by both HYUFD and Leon.

    Shocked?
    Stunned!
    Shoorly not!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,014

    Leon said:



    America is a country with two major political parties, one is Corbynite Labour with loadsamoney , the other is UKIP with a hangover


    They are FUCKED

    Biden and the Democrats are Corbynite Labour? What are you drinking?
    Dalamara Naoussa, 2018

    Chthonic

    https://www.vivino.com/dalamara-naoussa/w/2421048?year=2018
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    American politics has descended in to insanity - the democrats with their deranged identity politics and the trumpites with their conspiracy theories. I suppose Biden looks a bit more familiar and normal to those who came of age politically in the pre 2016 world, but then he goes and does this. For most of my life to date I would have instinctively sided with the democrats, but now I honestly don't know who I would vote for were I to be an American, it would be a very hard decision.
    Yes, I'm in a fairly similar position, I was an Obamacan. Someone probably just about Republican, generally, if forced to choose - but I liked Obama and would have voted for him with great hope. Tho American politics is so different my perspective is almost meaningless. eg I find their arguments about gun laws utterly alien, and the abortion division confounds me, tho I respect the fact they have serious debates about serious things

    Or they used to

    This is where America has now left me bewildered. Their politics no longer seems serious. I know the British can be flippant and glib but America has gone way beyond our superficiality - the USA was recently governed by a certifiably insane president who attempted a coup, and it is now governed by a cabal of elitist wankers who think white people are evil.

    I give up. America is MAD and FUCKED

    Who on earth would move there now, as that journalist so eloquently put it in the Spectator?
    That journalist being the much missed Sean T I presume, wonder what happened to him? I believe you were once acquainted

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whod-want-to-move-to-america-now
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    Sky News: "America was duped by the Taliban".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,090
    kinabalu said:

    I just want to correct a comment I made about my 18 year old granddaughter when I said she is in a literary group and has written seven books

    She is in a literary group, but has now just finished writing her 'first' novel about a prince who was sent on a quest he would be executed on if he fails, he meets a bunch of people he can trust and others he cannot, and in the end he must make a choice between his freedom and his duty to his country

    Sounds interesting for those who like novels and not sure where seven books came from

    You were anticipating the inevitable sequels.
    {Robert Jordan has entered the chat}

    7 books would be the first trilogy..... In the trilogy of trilogies that would end up with 28 books.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "America was duped by the Taliban".

    An...interesting take.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,282

    A truly disturbing day. My takeaways are:

    The Biden Administration are in charge so they take the hit.

    US intelligence has been outrageously poor.

    I have a big issue over the morality of the exit, bearing in mind the reputation of the Taliban. This was Biden's call, and an ill thought through call at that.

    Johnson escapes any political fallout. I don't believe he has done anything wrong anyway.

    I am shocked at the raft of absolutely hysterical posts by both HYUFD and Leon.

    Foreign Secretary 2016-2018
    PM 2019-present

    Nothing wrong?!?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    edited August 15
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    American politics has descended in to insanity - the democrats with their deranged identity politics and the trumpites with their conspiracy theories. I suppose Biden looks a bit more familiar and normal to those who came of age politically in the pre 2016 world, but then he goes and does this. For most of my life to date I would have instinctively sided with the democrats, but now I honestly don't know who I would vote for were I to be an American, it would be a very hard decision.
    Yes, I'm in a fairly similar position, I was an Obamacan. Someone probably just about Republican, generally, if forced to choose - but I liked Obama and would have voted for him with great hope. Tho American politics is so different my perspective is almost meaningless. eg I find their arguments about gun laws utterly alien, and the abortion division confounds me, tho I respect the fact they have serious debates about serious things

    Or they used to

    This is where America has now left me bewildered. Their politics no longer seems serious. I know the British can be flippant and glib but America has gone way beyond our superficiality - the USA was recently governed by a certifiably insane president who attempted a coup, and it is now governed by a cabal of elitist wankers who think white people are evil.

    I give up. America is MAD and FUCKED

    Who on earth would move there now, as that journalist so eloquently put it in the Spectator?
    On the other hand, you can't blame Biden if all the information he was being fed by his security experts/services was useless.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,771
    edited August 15
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    America is a country with two major political parties, one is Corbynite Labour with loadsamoney , the other is UKIP with a hangover


    They are FUCKED

    Biden and the Democrats are Corbynite Labour? What are you drinking?
    Dalamara Naoussa, 2018

    Chthonic

    https://www.vivino.com/dalamara-naoussa/w/2421048?year=2018
    Naoussa is a tiny, almost uninhabited, island towards the dodecanese, I think. Mainly sheep and goats. Any wine feom there must be interesting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,698
    HYUFD said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    They were done with it on the morning of September 11th too, however militant Islamic extremists were certainly not done with taking the fight to the Great Satan.

    Unfortunately you cannot just turn off a terrorist threat at will
    When John Major was talking about "the flapping of white coats", were you close by? You really have lost the plot over the last 24 hours.

    I say this as someone normally respectful of your work.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,252

    NEW: UK foreign secretary Dominic Raab was advised to not go on holiday amid the Afghanistan situation, but he went anyway

    Via @thetimes


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1427020223065042944?s=20
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1427020754919514112?s=20

    True or not, who hates Raab and/or the government enough to leak that?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 938
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    And look at the state of THIS



    Nancy Pelosi
    @SpeakerPelosi
    The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.



    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1426937799446564870?s=20

    Surreal

    "clarity of purpose"

    Yes, I guess, if the clear purpose was to humiliate America in front of the world and raise the hopes of all jihadis who hate the West. Yes, in that case, 10/10, A++, VG

    America just had four years of humiliation with a barely functional adult as President. Everyone on here, and the American east coast media elite, are out of touch. The American public are done with being forever entangled in the world's worst places. They want investment in nation building at home. Biden's bills on infrastructure, elderly care and child care are doing just that.
    Yes yes yes whatever but you can't deny that is probably the single dumbest, stupidest, ugliest, most cloth-eared tweet ever made by a US politician, and I include the insane Trump in that definition of "US politician"

    The fucking Democrats are as bad as the Trumpites. The US in in freefall
    No. Really, they are not.
    American politics has descended in to insanity - the democrats with their deranged identity politics and the trumpites with their conspiracy theories. I suppose Biden looks a bit more familiar and normal to those who came of age politically in the pre 2016 world, but then he goes and does this. For most of my life to date I would have instinctively sided with the democrats, but now I honestly don't know who I would vote for were I to be an American, it would be a very hard decision.
    Yes, I'm in a fairly similar position, I was an Obamacan. Someone probably just about Republican, generally, if forced to choose - but I liked Obama and would have voted for him with great hope. Tho American politics is so different my perspective is almost meaningless. eg I find their arguments about gun laws utterly alien, and the abortion division confounds me, tho I respect the fact they have serious debates about serious things

    Or they used to

    This is where America has now left me bewildered. Their politics no longer seems serious. I know the British can be flippant and glib but America has gone way beyond our superficiality - the USA was recently governed by a certifiably insane president who attempted a coup, and it is now governed by a cabal of elitist wankers who think white people are evil.

    I give up. America is MAD and FUCKED

    Who on earth would move there now, as that journalist so eloquently put it in the Spectator?
    I'd have voted for Obama too, with great enthusiasm. He is woke in the best possible way. It is hard to process how much the world has changed since 2016 though. The error people make is that they think that woke (2020 onwards) is a continuation of Obama style liberalism. In fact, it is a profound rupture from it, and is just as nuts as what Trump and his mad followers were up to.





  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,318
    edited August 15
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "America was duped by the Taliban".

    I think they were also duped by the Afghan military. Especially those senior officers whose bank balances benefited from American military assistance.

    Some of those lads will be hoping that their beards grow pretty damn quick.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403
    edited August 15

    DougSeal said:

    The state of this….

    @yanisvaroufakis
    ·
    49m
    On the day liberal-neocon imperialism was defeated once and for all, DiEM25's thoughts are with the women of Afghanistan. Our solidarity probably means little to them but it is what we can offer - for the time being. Hang in there sisters!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1427012544523296774

    Not Yanis's most considered post, but then global affairs rather than global economy was never really his academic area.
    There is a 'defeat for imperialism' angle here. It's not the strongest perspective on it imo but it's not an outrageous view. It's in the mix.

    Where that tweet goes bad for me - and in quite a big way - is with "hang in there sisters!" That is an absolute squirmer. I mean FFS.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 733
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "America was duped by the Taliban".

    Not at all, it simply believed what was convenient. Again I refer to the advice presented to Biden; maintain commitment and try to get talks on a better footing.
This discussion has been closed.