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I am shocked by this poll finding – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 8 in General
I am shocked by this poll finding – politicalbetting.com

NEW British least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way of settling political issues https://t.co/9IPhhXzwNS #BrexitDividend pic.twitter.com/JOFMyIJl1E

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  • A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

    Your winnings m'sieu.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    edited August 8
    Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.
  • ydoethur said:

    Have we lost the edit function? That's annoying if so.

    I think Vanilla are doing one of their periodical archiving process, that removes the edit button for a bit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,484
    FPT
    DougSeal said:

    » show previous quotes
    I’ve had all of those just from Malc. And I’m not even a Unionist.

    That is just a barefaced lie, I would never ever use any of those words. Nasty nasty post.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,632

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    ICYMI

    Ahead of National Pizza Day on February 9 [2021], Uber Eats has revealed the UK’s top 10 favourite pizza toppings, with vegetarian, pepperoni and four cheese making the top three.

    Pizza proved extremely popular this year with orders increasing by 294% in the past year as the nation turned to comfort food to get them through the year.

    The nation may be looking for comfort but Brits are still trying to get their five a day as vegetarian toppled classics pepperoni and four cheese in the list of favourites. But meat lovers can rest assured that their favourites are still safe with meat feast and bacon joining pepperoni in the top 10.

    Meanwhile the nation seems to believe that pineapple does belong on pizza with the controversial topping coming in sixth. From pineapple to pepperoni, Uber Eats offers a wide range of options to cater to all topping needs.


    The UK’s Top 10 Pizza Toppings:

    Vegetarian
    Pepperoni
    Four cheese
    Margherita
    Meat feast
    Hawaiian
    Olives
    Tuna and sweetcorn
    Bacon
    Spicy jalapeno

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/uks-favourite-pizza-toppings-ranked-19775001
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,607
    ydoethur said:

    'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

    Your winnings m'sieu.

    On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

    Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061
    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,484
    this about sums it up.............
    The Diary of Rupert St John-Fontaine: Kilts, a dark car park and meeting UK mole
    I’VE been sent north to Holyrood to work at the heart of the SNP war machine as a Boris Johnson sleeper. My mission? To provide intelligence on Sturgeon’s independence plans. But who is the mysterious “H”, the Scottish cabinet secretary who is to be my handler? And where do the Brothers Grim – Smyth and McDonald – fit in after they gate-crashed my farewell do at Masopust’s?
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19498869.diary-rupert-st-john-fontaine-kilts-dark-car-park-meeting-uk-mole/#comments-anchor
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

    Your winnings m'sieu.

    On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.
    The funny thing is, before 1973 (the Northern Ireland referendum, such as it was) lots of referendums had been proposed but I can't think of any that actually took place.

    Churchill wanted a referendum in 1945 on continuing the 1935 parliament until the defeat of Japan - but Attlee withdrew Labour from the coalition and an election was held instead.

    Bonar Law suggested a referendum on Tariff Reform in 1913 - but by the time the Unionists won an election in their own strength again nine years had passed and the pledge was ditched.

    I think Gladstone proposed a referendum on Home Rule for Ireland as well in 1885, although I'm not sure of that.

    Given that the ones held since have mostly been a dog's breakfast, it's not surprising the electorate are getting fed up with them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    Not in Scotland. There is a reasonable majority in favour of calling indyref when the current covid unpleasantness is out of the way (efectively: given the timings involved.
  • Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

    Plus I have a piece coming up on the franchise etc on any future Indyref, basically all sides to not try and rig the franchise as it will delegitimise the result.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    Not in Scotland. There is a reasonable majority in favour of calling indyref when the current covid unpleasantness is out of the way (efectively: given the timings involved.
    Damn, no edit button: sorry: should have stressed this is independent of whether yes or no in the vote itself.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,220

    Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

    Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

    I guess the problem with hockey is that the money has to support at least eleven players, whereas other sports may only have to support three or four candidates?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566

    Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

    Plus I have a piece coming up on the franchise etc on any future Indyref, basically all sides to not try and rig the franchise as it will delegitimise the result.
    Thanks - the 1970s were a long time ago ... and the franchise piece will be interesting given some of the comments on PB and leaks from a certain quarter.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,743

    Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

    Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

    It begs the question of what funding is for: medals or participation. And what about medalists? Some sports "cheat" by giving lots of medals to the same handful of participants, like swimming and cycling.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,484
    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    ydoethur said:

    Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.

    Works for me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

    Your winnings m'sieu.

    On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.
    In which case, logically, the thumping majority of SNP representatives in Westminster should be quite sufficient to settle the question at once. As Mrs Thatcher acknowledged (albeit speaking sarcastically at the time, and not specifying any other decision-making mechanism).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,632

    Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.
    Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.
    I think there’s an excess ‘l’ in that last sentence.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    edited August 8
    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    Proud patriot with bags groaning with flaked Parmesan.





  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    edited August 8
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.

    Works for me.
    So I see! :smiley:

    Challenge: edit this one to change its meaning:

    Radiohead are the greatest band in the history of the universe.

    Edit - It's back! IT's BACKKKK!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,484
    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.
    I think there’s an excess ‘l’ in that last sentence.
    The more the merrier Robert
  • AslanAslan Posts: 733
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

    Your winnings m'sieu.

    On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.
    I quite like the (probably unplanned) approach in the UK. We have parliament to decide regular policy and the public to decide proposed constitutional changes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144

    Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

    Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

    I guess the problem with hockey is that the money has to support at least eleven players, whereas other sports may only have to support three or four candidates?
    Yes. Canoeing was the one I was most surprised with.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    edited August 8
    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566

    Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.
    Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.
    Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.
    Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.
    Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.
    Unlike the one on the Welsh Assembly. That was a genuinely tight result.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Deleted - Vanilla is being a bit weird
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

    Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).
    I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.
    Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.
    Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.
    Unlike the one on the Welsh Assembly. That was a genuinely tight result.
    *looks up* - ooh, so it was. 50.3/49.7.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,476
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

    I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

    I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.
    Don’t fret, sunshine, you’ll carry on the abuse when you get back. I’m sure a break will do you good.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Indie Sage now expanding their remit into imperialism I see

    Martin McKee
    @martinmckee
    The international community needs to rethink concepts of state sovereignty - whether it’s Bolsanaro burning rainforests & encouraging COVID variants or Lukashenko weaponising migrants

    https://twitter.com/martinmckee/status/1424333602519724035
  • On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    The complication of course is that some Unionists want to impose a referendum at once before Mr Johnson does any more damage or the shine comes off Mr Sunak's reputation - like Wendy Alexander and her 'Bring it on'. So can be tricky to interpret the results, but you know that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,512

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

    42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Off topic but has anyone else noticed how Covid rates in South America, and Brazil especially, have fallen off a cliff in the middle of their winter?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061
    For anyone who suffered through the kick-bash-stodge fest of the recent Lions-SA series, watch this. The All Blacks run the length of the field against Oz

    The try was eventually disallowed for a forward pass, but despite that....

    Just watch. And marvel

    https://twitter.com/allblacks/status/1423948512346001409?s=21
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    HYUFD said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

    42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20
    Those who don't know don't count.
  • DougSeal said:

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
    He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

    If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    edited August 8
    HYUFD said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

    42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20
    And nobody can face a referendum till covid - and also Brexit - are settled. Remember Brexit is still unresolved in crucial areas. NI not sorted (which is highly relevant to Scotland wanting its own similar status). And the import controls still needing to be implemented into the UK.

    Edit: you also need to allow for the timing of the actual referendum, and a year is the sort of warning people think about as a nice round number. Add the above issues, and it is a non starter till this time next year at best.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    Three (White, Male) Tough Guys Sign Off. Is It a Moment?

    Bosch,” “Mr. Inbetween” and “Jack Irish,” dependably good and noticeably old-fashioned, all reach the end of the hard-boiled road.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/arts/television/middle-aged-white-heroes.html

    Some people see everything through the lens of race. And of course its not true, because Bosch hasn't finished...its coming back on IMDB TV (also owned by Amazon).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    edited August 8

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    And if there is no [edit] London willingness to have a referendum ever - then the question devolves (sorry) to parliamentary democracy and a simple majority of MPs for Scottish seats. I think Foxy put his finger on the issue: either have ad lib referenda on request, or none at all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

    Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144

    DougSeal said:

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
    He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

    If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.
    Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,566
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spine [edit] pad is showing.

    Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

    Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.
    Damn, can't edit. Should have said spine pad. Sorry.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    Carnyx said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    And if there is no [edit] London willingness to have a referendum ever - then the question devolves (sorry) to parliamentary democracy and a simple majority of MPs for Scottish seats. I think Foxy put his finger on the issue: either have ad lib referenda on request, or none at all.
    There's no doubt the UK is uncomfortable with referendums, mainly because they stumble into them due to external pressures and stupid promises for electoral advantage (hi, Dave!). I expect the next one will follow a similar pattern- fudge, evade, obfuscate, lurch.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spine [edit] pad is showing.

    Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

    Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.
    Damn, can't edit. Should have said spine pad. Sorry.
    Wtf is a ‘spine pad’ anyway?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    I can't see Switzerland in that chart. It would be interesting to see what they think.

    Personally I think we need more referenda. But it's generally better if the government of the day is happy to implement the decision of the people. That wasn't the case in 2016 (and, maybe, not in 2014).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    edited August 8
    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061
    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,366
    Afternoon all :)

    After my roast lunch (minus a ton of flaked parmesan), I'm in slightly reflective mood.

    I have to confess I wish I had listened to those siren voices who opined referenda were the tool of the despot. Irrespective of whether you think the decision was "right" or "wrong", two referenda (referendums, I really don't care) have poisoned political debate over the past seven years and look set to do so for years to come.

    Thread after thread on here devolve into pointless baseline arguments over Scottish independence and whether or not we should have left the EU.

    It's not as though the world has stopped turning while we've indulged in our introspective navel gazing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    tlg86 said:

    I can't see Switzerland in that chart. It would be interesting to see what they think.

    Personally I think we need more referenda. But it's generally better if the government of the day is happy to implement the decision of the people. That wasn't the case in 2016 (and, maybe, not in 2014).

    Maybe proper, frequent referenda, and the job of the government becomes technocratic: implementing the decisions of the people.

    The difficulty, of course, is that (as California shows), it is perfectly possible to have the people give two entirely contradictory instructions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.
    Well, given that I have a vote in the Westminster Parliament, and it is that Parliament which decides when our Scottish colony gets a vote on Indy, or not, that’s pretty tough shit for you Scotch. But such is life
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,624
    Patel has decided to piss off the Sun (and all other newspapers). Good luck with her leadership bid in a couple of years time. Slack is now at the Sun.



    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    1h
    James Slack, recently Boris Johnson’s spokesperson, says Priti Patel’s plan to toughen Official Secrets Act is “chilling”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,650
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    But you don't get to cheer on your juiced up athletes win loads of medals at the Olympics....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

    France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

    BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Small dick energy vibe in this comment
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,898
    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
  • On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    Not currently under the Scotland Act.

    However I'd say yes but on the proviso that Sturgeon/the Scottish Parliament set out the steps for what happens next?

    1) What happens if Scotland votes no once more? Will we enter a period of neverendums?

    2) If Scotland votes yes then will Scotland have a confirmatory/second referendum on the deal, something Sturgeon was in favour of between 2016 and 2019.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,861
    edited August 8
    On the referendum just thinking back to the terrible remain campaign and Obama's ill judged "back of the queue" comment. Since then US policy wrt the EU looks a lot more like what Trump left behind than what Obama said would happen. We're now well past the point where Biden could have undone everything Trump put in place but he hasn't and the US is far, far more hostile towards the EU than it was under Obama and it has been conducting almost all of its foreign policy on a bilateral basis with the nations of the EU rather than via the EU.

    It's not a huge deal and probably reflects America's first priority of securing it's primacy in Asia and the Pacific and the Brexit effect of the major diplomatic partner no longer being in it.

    I just thought it was interesting how different the post-Brexit realpolitik is to what Obama and the remain campaign were hopecasting. The UK/US relationship is still far, far more important to the US and UK than either of their relationships with the EU. Both the UK and US are conducting foreign policy without involving the EU and this is being aided and abetted by Macron who sees an opportunity to put France's interests at the top of the table without interference from the other 26 nations.

    It will be interesting to see how the next 10 years plays out as the UK and US increasingly put their focus on Asia and the Pacific and continue to sidestep the EU. It may force the Eurocrats into a corner and try and make a play for France's UN security council seat and a new treaty to take over all external foreign policy.
  • Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

    France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

    BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19
    Crikey. That’s pretty bad

    Also check this guy. Another Frog, apparently.

    https://twitter.com/mmetsola/status/1424336194679283717?s=21
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

    France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

    BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19
    They give a gold medal for being a dickhead?

    No wonder Scotland wants independence, that’s three medals for their bloggers from day one.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,898

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

    France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

    BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19
    Looking forward to Paris 2024 tbh...

    I am sure the French will put on a brilliant show with real panache. And only 3 years to wait!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,861
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
    Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,898

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
    😂 Medals and More = More medals (than anyone expected)!
  • DougSeal said:

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
    He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

    If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.
    Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.
    I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,898

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
    Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.
    How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,898
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

    I thought you were singing its praises and planning to escape to there not so long ago?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,836
    edited August 8
    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    We've had fair political development owing partly to particular developments of protestantism, but an artistic legacy on anything like the scale of France's and Italy's would need another couple of centuries of making up for the biases of the Victorians against expression, where Britain lost a lot of artistic ground.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

    It did, but that's a slightly different question.

    I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.
    Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

    I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

    Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    No. Next question
    Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.
    Well, given that I have a vote in the Westminster Parliament, and it is that Parliament which decides when our Scottish colony gets a vote on Indy, or not, that’s pretty tough shit for you Scotch. But such is life
    I'm afraid that interpretation still renders your opinion relatively uninteresting to pollsters. Bottler with vestigial connection to Scotland backs Bottler enforcing non consenting Union to avoid losing the national construct that gets him hard of a morning.
    Quelle surprise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,861

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

    I thought you were singing its praises and planning to escape to there not so long ago?
    That was when the government were dithering on ending legal restrictions. Thankfully Rishi and the other sensible Cabinet members overruled the scientists.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    edited August 8

    DougSeal said:

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
    He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

    If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.
    Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.
    I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.
    Given their target demographic is right leaning more Brexity, that is much older skewed....who have pretty much all gone and got jabbed as soon as it was available....and yet their output is skewed antivaxxer.

    Not even sensible from a business perspective. Bit like Fox News approach, lets kill off all our audience.
  • DougSeal said:

    I think my father should take all the credit for this.

    Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

    People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

    This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

    ...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

    At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

    But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

    Well done TSE Senior!
    He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

    If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.
    Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.
    I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.
    Given their target demographic is right leaning more Brexity, that is much older skewed....who have pretty much all gone and got jabbed as soon as it was available....and yet their output is skewed antivaxxer.

    Not even sensible from a business perspective. Bit like Fox News approach, lets kill off all our audience.
    I'm surprised they haven't hired Piers Corbyn.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.
    I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

    My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,578
    MaxPB said:

    On the referendum just thinking back to the terrible remain campaign and Obama's ill judged "back of the queue" comment. Since then US policy wrt the EU looks a lot more like what Trump left behind than what Obama said would happen. We're now well past the point where Biden could have undone everything Trump put in place but he hasn't and the US is far, far more hostile towards the EU than it was under Obama and it has been conducting almost all of its foreign policy on a bilateral basis with the nations of the EU rather than via the EU.

    It's not a huge deal and probably reflects America's first priority of securing it's primacy in Asia and the Pacific and the Brexit effect of the major diplomatic partner no longer being in it.

    I just thought it was interesting how different the post-Brexit realpolitik is to what Obama and the remain campaign were hopecasting. The UK/US relationship is still far, far more important to the US and UK than either of their relationships with the EU. Both the UK and US are conducting foreign policy without involving the EU and this is being aided and abetted by Macron who sees an opportunity to put France's interests at the top of the table without interference from the other 26 nations.

    It will be interesting to see how the next 10 years plays out as the UK and US increasingly put their focus on Asia and the Pacific and continue to sidestep the EU. It may force the Eurocrats into a corner and try and make a play for France's UN security council seat and a new treaty to take over all external foreign policy.

    I think relations between European countries and the US are massively better than under Trump.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.
    I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

    My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.
    England’s ideal future outside the EU is a kind of Switzerland with other bits on top of financial services supporting it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,570

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

    France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

    BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19
    Looking forward to Paris 2024 tbh...

    I am sure the French will put on a brilliant show with real panache. And only 3 years to wait!
    Less than that only 1.083 days to go
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    edited August 8

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
    Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.
    How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)
    Well i did say we would struggle to win any golds (check) and I thought individuals there was outside chances for few medals...i said DAS, Gemili, KJT and Muir, were our main medal hopes, 3 of which got injuried, but luckily got replaced with some others.

    Individuals it was 2 silver, 2 bronzes wasn't it? Team GB weren't really competitive in most events. The surprise was two middle distance events.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,061

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    My prediction was pathetically pessimistic and wrong. Yay!

    I was very close with my China edging America prediction, however....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,755
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

    Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.
    I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

    My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.
    "It's much better to profit from Russian money than to be Russian."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    Here is the alternative Olympic medal table. It's ranked by number of sports in which countries win medals (so the medals don't sum to the total). The diff column shows the change in the ranking relative to the position in the official table.

    Rank, Diff, Team, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Total
    1. (0), United States, 14, 14, 14, 25
    2. (0), China, 13, 13, 10, 19
    3. (0), Japan, 11, 13, 13, 20
    4. (+1), ROC, 10, 13, 10, 18
    5. (-1), Great Britain, 9, 11, 15, 18
    6. (+3), Germany, 7, 9, 8, 14
    7. (+1), France, 7, 8, 8, 16
    8. (+4), Brazil, 7, 4, 5, 12
    9. (+1), Italy, 6, 7, 11, 16
    10. (-4), Australia, 6, 5, 11, 15
    11. (0), Canada, 6, 4, 7, 10
    12. (-5), Netherlands, 5, 5, 7, 10
    13. (+2), Hungary, 4, 5, 6, 9
    14. (+4), Czech Republic, 4, 4, 3, 6
    15. (+7), Spain, 3, 6, 5, 13
    16. (-3), New Zealand, 3, 4, 6, 11
    16. (0), South Korea, 3, 4, 6, 8
    18. (-4), Cuba, 3, 3, 4, 7
    19. (+6), Denmark, 3, 3, 3, 8
    20. (+6), Croatia, 3, 3, 2, 5
    21. (+3), Switzerland, 3, 2, 4, 5
    22. (-2), Norway, 3, 2, 2, 6
    23. (+4), Iran, 3, 2, 1, 4
    24. (+4), Serbia, 3, 1, 5, 7
    25. (+4), Belgium, 3, 1, 3, 6
    26. (+4), Bulgaria, 3, 1, 1, 5
    26. (+5), Slovenia, 3, 1, 1, 4
    28. (+4), Uzbekistan, 3, 0, 2, 5
    29. (-6), Sweden, 2, 5, 0, 5
    30. (+4), Chinese Taipei, 2, 4, 6, 10
    31. (+4), Turkey, 2, 2, 4, 6
    32. (+1), Georgia, 2, 2, 1, 3
    33. (+3), Greece, 2, 1, 1, 4
    34. (+4), Ecuador, 2, 1, 0, 2
    35. (+4), Ireland, 2, 0, 2, 2
    36. (+5), Qatar, 2, 0, 1, 3
    37. (+7), Ukraine, 1, 6, 10, 12
    38. (-21), Poland, 1, 4, 3, 5
    39. (+9), India, 1, 2, 4, 6
    40. (+5), Belarus, 1, 2, 3, 4
    41. (+9), Slovakia, 1, 2, 1, 3
    42. (+4), Romania, 1, 2, 0, 2
    42. (+4), Venezuela, 1, 2, 0, 3
    42. (+10), South Africa, 1, 2, 0, 2
    45. (+8), Austria, 1, 1, 5, 6
    46. (+3), Hong Kong, 1, 1, 3, 5
    46. (+8), Egypt, 1, 1, 3, 4
    48. (+7), Indonesia, 1, 1, 2, 2
    48. (+8), Portugal, 1, 1, 2, 3
    50. (-31), Kenya, 1, 1, 1, 1
    50. (-29), Jamaica, 1, 1, 1, 1
    50. (-14), Uganda, 1, 1, 1, 1
    50. (0), Philippines, 1, 1, 1, 2
    50. (+6), Ethiopia, 1, 1, 1, 1
    55. (+3), Tunisia, 1, 1, 0, 2
    56. (-17), Israel, 1, 0, 2, 3
    57. (+2), Estonia, 1, 0, 1, 1
    57. (+2), Fiji, 1, 0, 1, 1
    57. (+2), Latvia, 1, 0, 1, 2
    57. (+2), Thailand, 1, 0, 1, 2
    61. (-19), Bahamas, 1, 0, 0, 1
    61. (-19), Kosovo, 1, 0, 0, 1
    61. (+2), Bermuda, 1, 0, 0, 1
    61. (+2), Morocco, 1, 0, 0, 1
    61. (+2), Puerto Rico, 1, 0, 0, 1

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    How long can you wait?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,144
    edited August 8

    Leon said:

    Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

    USA
    China
    Japan
    Great Britain
    Russia

    That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

    Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

    Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

    Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!
    Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.
    Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.
    How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)
    Well i did say we would struggle to win any golds (check) and I thought individuals there was outside chances for few medals...i said DAS, Gemili, KJT and Muir, were our main medal hopes, 3 of which got injuried, but luckily got replaced with some others.

    Individuals it was 2 silver, 2 bronzes wasn't it? Team GB weren't really competitive in most events. The surprise was two middle distance events.
    The 2 sprint relay medals papered over the fact that totally uncompetitive in all individual sprint events, 100, 200, 400, the hurdles. Also totally uncompetitive at distance events. No where in long jump, high jump, triple jump, javilin, shot put...just the mens hammer and womens pole vault of the field events.

    It wasn't even like the rowing with all those 4th places. In most athletic events Team GB just aren't even close to medals.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,570
    Wonder what was the best price the draw got to in the Test?

    I got 4/1 at 7.35 this morning when the rain woke me up.

    I live 26 miles from Trent Bridge
  • kle4 said:

    A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

    You can thank me later.

    How long can you wait?
    A long time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    Are referendums not a bit like democracy: the worst way to resolve things apart from all the others?

    What we have seen all too painfully in Scotland, and indeed in the UK in respect of Brexit, is that they are divisive, disruptive and change very few minds but so does a situation where there is a very substantial minority who want something but cannot get it through Westminster either because they don't stand in enough seats or because there is a cosy metropolitan consensus shared by all the major parties.

    My view, FWIW, is that those wanting a referendum won a very, very narrow majority of the vote in Scotland at the last election. I think that entitles them to at least ask the question.
This discussion has been closed.